![1456903834973[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lhjYYpN.jpg "1456903834973[1].jpg")
Why wasnt any one on Voyager bothered by the fact that the real Harry Kim killed and was replaced by a duplicate?
because shit like that happened a lot
>>13949824
Is voyager worth watching? I'm about to finish TNG and will want more Trek soon.
>>13949837
No, watch DS9 after that if you haven't.
>>13949845
Will do, thanks
>>13949837
There's literally only like 6 good episodes. I second that guy on DS9. Far superior series, and it has some fucking sweet battles in the last two seasons.
>>13949824
lots of crazy shit happens in voyager actually, like how Paris and Janeway became lizards and had lizard children
>>13949870
and then they left those lizards on the planet in a super fucked up interpretation of the prime directive
>>13949837
Voyager has a lot of promise, but does exceptionally poorly at living up to just about... well, any of it. At the same time, it can be an enjoyable slow motion trainwreck and watching Janeway's descent into near-supervillany can be amusing. Booze recommended if you ever try to get through Voyager.
>>13949878
sadly we never really had a mirror version of Janeway, just that one episode where they misinterpret history on an alien planet,
maybe a real mirror version of Janeway would start of as this crazy mad super villain (even by mirror universe standards) then slowly turns sane.
>>13949837
Voyager is like junk food. It's very comfy. But I know it's terrible.
>>13949870
I thought we agreed never to speak about Threshold
>>13949896
Maybe it already is the Mirror Mirror version of Janeway, having replaced regular Janeway early in the first season?
>>13949824
Because that doesn't even bear mentioning, in their society. Transporters take you apart and put you back together on the other side, so the people of the Federation are used to thinking of exact duplicates of a person as being the same as the original.
>>13949837
why even ask
voyager is another 7 seasons of the same star trek shit youve come to expect
I enjoyed it, anon. There were plenty of cool alternate timeline episodes, too.
>>13949837
No. All you need to know is that Janeway herself practically goes against almost every Federation Directive in existence; bordering on villainous at times. And could be considered psychopathic. Basically, the ends justify the means.
So if you're one who holds Picard as a legend, you're going to hate Janeway, who gives no fucks as long as she can get her ship and most of her crew home in one piece. Directives and consequences be damned. Fuck time too; even if her younger self resisted fucking with the timeline.
>>13950481
She's also skitzo as seen with the incident with the Equinox.
>>13950481
Except Omega Directive.
But the Omega Directive is just "Do what it takes to destroy the Omega Particle" so its effectively an auto-win for her.
>>13949870
wut
>>13950709
You think we're kidding, or exaggerating for humorous effect and skipping over some key details to make it less stupid, but we're not.
In fact the more details we provide, the STUPIDER it becomes.
>>13949870
>>13949877
>>13950238
>>13950719
there was a really hilarious photo-comic I saw once that used that episode as it's basis, it involved people(especially Paris) singing songs from Wicked
>>13950709
You were warned:Paris experiments with Trans-warp, his method of travelling in Trans-warp causes his evolutionary process to accelerate, he progresses through some really disturbing stages of mutation (including his tongue detaching inside his mouth mid-sentance) before kidnapping Janeway and running away at Trans-warp. When they track them down on a planet they've both 'evolved' into those critters and apparently had babies. Janeway and Paris are taken back to the ship and reverted to normal, babies are left to fend for themselves on said planet, everyone agrees to never speak of it again.
>>13950750
>everyone agrees to never speak of it again.
The only remotely realistic and logical aspect of the entire debacle.
>>13950750
They actually make it non-canon later on. They're talking about warp speeds, and one of them goes "Man, weird how NOBODY has EVER gone past warp 9, amiright?"
And then there's the mobile emitter (which they got from a time-traveler from the 29th century). Which somehow attaches to the hologram it's projecting to let the hologram run around freely. And gets into a technobabble accident and fuses with the resident reformed Borg's nanoprobes to SOMEHOW spawn a 29th century borg.
>>13950760
Wait, did we mention the reformed borg? Because they reform a borg. And she looks like this.
>>13950764
They did it with a few. Including a fetus.
>>13950764
Everyone knows about SoN
EVERYONE.
She apparently also had an interview on TV Guide or some shit that talked about how she gets into that outfit because its apparently a real hassle.
>>13949824
Obligatory.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIGxMENwq1k
>>13950764
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjBrqS6hitk
>>13949824
what?
i didn't noticed.
they arr rook same i guess.
Remember that time a crewman's heart exploded and instead of doing an emergency transport to sickbay to put her in stasis to create an artificial heart or some other technobable shit to keep her alive the HMS just took a scan to say her heart exploded and shrugged while Janeway decides to start doing CPR on her? Because that just made the EMH, a holograph that's program with all medical knowledge and doesn't have to deal with emotions like stress under pressure look like a complete idiot.
Although maybe he just sucks with the cardiovascular system because in a later episode a guy was transported to sickbay and right during transport, he got shot in the heart and instead of doing anything, the EMH just announces he's dead.
Oh and by then they had NANOMACHINES that could bring the dead back to life, but they only used it on Neelix so he could have a crisis of faith, and never used it for any other crewman who was killed.
tl;dr version, the writers of Voyager needed to die in a fire since even the best character, the EMH was a putz.
>>13950481
Even Kirk, who would bring the Federation back to the brink of war purely for personal reasons, would find Janeway appaling.
>>13950840
>her heart exploded
>Janeway decides to start doing CPR on her
>>13950756
Warp speed shit got retconned in TNG anyway, in the sense that they changed the scale. There was shit like Warp 20 in TOS, but they scaled it back to just 1-10, with 10 being instantaneous.
>>13950760
The mobile emitter is one of the few things that I always questioned why it didn't already exist in the ST universe.
>>13950764
>And she looks like this.
After they stripped all the shit off her. She looked like a regular borg before.
It's been years, but wasn't it more that they just cut Seven off from the collective?
>>13950868
Yeah, they pretty much had to cut her off to stop her from taking over the ship or calling for reinforcements. But then they continually pushed her to rediscover her humanity and offered boatloads of moral support to that end.
Like holy shit, that Seven ep where she started channeling all the people she assimilated and just went batshit, including the bit where she ran around the room talking like a Ferengi. And they're just kind of "it's okay Seven, let it out..."
>>13949824
The duplicate was almost identical to their Harry Kim.
This is not like the Thomas Riker scenario where the duplicate develops into a different person thanks to very different experiences.
>>13950968
and really who even gave two fucks about Harry
Voyager is better watched with fellow Trek nerds to be able to go lolVoyager or (occasionally) "hey, this isn't too bad, especially for Voyager". I've ended up watching a bunch over on /1701/'s synchtube, and there's occasionally some good stuff and sometimes some okay stuff, especially if you can accept that it's a tv show and different writers wrote the characters waaaaaaaay differently, Janeway in particular, rather than looking for reasons for inconsistencies in the historical documents.
Also any time Chipotle goes on about how "Many moons ago, Buffalo and Elk rerouted the phase inverter to bypass the maniflow compensation array." it's usually pretty funny.
>>13951035
That reminds me that their supposed Indian expert was a fraud too.
Also
>Chipotle
>>13950764
She's called Seven of Nine because seven times out of nine you cum immediately upon putting your dick in.
>>13949852
The DS9 battles were so terrible.
All they do is fly towards each other in a blob, shoot a bit, crash into each other, then it is over.
>>13950840
Not to defend Voyager, but I could honestly see the Federation having a policy of 'dead is dead'. They have enough superscience floating around that bringing the dead back to life isn't actually that hard for them. Worst case scenario, you just print a new person using the transporter.
If they didn't draw the line at death, they would probably start getting into some pretty freaky shit, ethics-wise.
>>13949824
Janeway being a monster was already a big enough elephant in the room so they decided not to care about another.
>>13951402
I always viewed Starfleet as the Culture without balls.
>>13950863
They had "trans-warp" in Kirk era movies. Best way to think on it is TNG is using Kirk era "trans-warp" as a better form of warp but it's not true trans.
>>13950840
Literally just beam her ass to the holodeck and project a holographic heart into her chest.
This shit is easy mode.
How anyone even dies in starfleet without being their body being totally obliterated or left beyond reach of medical attention is beyond me.
>>13951459
Sort of. Its important to remember that humanity drove itself to borderline extinction three separate times prior to growing up and becoming Starfleet. They take their ethics very seriously because they have to, they have a proven record of potentially destroying themselves if they take the stick out of their butt.
>>13950840
Based on their technology, there's no reason anyone should die ever. They'd be Gods.
But in Trekverse you can be killed by getting stabbed.
>>13950855
True.
On one hand, I have to commend Janeway for getting her ship back in one piece with all this fancy new tech.
On the other, one just has to wonder why she wasn't outright tried and jailed for it all after all the Voyager finally returned.
>>13949837
Voyager is absolutely fine. Trek nerds hate it for autism reasons, but the show is perfectly entertaining.
>>13951552
Because you can't jail an Admiral. I still can't believe that after Voyager she gets an admiral ship.
>>13951599
I will admit this. Voyager is a trip and a half as long as you don't go into it expecting a lot of consistency. Got a lot of wild ideas that make you wonder what the writers were on, but that also makes it colorful.
Like that time the aliens took over the ship, locked everyone in the holodeck, and re-enacted WW2 with the crew as the French and the aliens as Nazis.
Or that time the half-klingon engineer had a near-death and spent the whole episode in Klingon hell on THE BARGE OF THE DEAD.
Or the time they were all brainwashed into being grunt labor on a space station.
Or the time the alien culture invented a bizarro version of Voyager based on a fleeting encounter, built a whole museum to showing it off, and then recovered a backup copy of the EMH who set them straight.
Or the time the EMH made a holographic family and the klingon engineer thought it was too perfect and stuffed a bunch of drama into it, incluuding the son running with the 'wrong crowd' - a bunch of klingon teens.
Or how they keep setting up ongoing holodeck subplots like not!Flash Gordon, Leonardo Da Vinci, that Irish town...
>>13951603
It's called being promoted to where you can't do any damage.
>>13951644
>can't do any damage.
>literally changes decades of history just to make her co-worker not dead
at least Admiral Kirk just blew up a couple ships to res his buddy.
>>13951035
>and really who even gave two fucks about Harry
QFT
Kim was deadweight. He got wrecked everytime and never got a promotion. What a schmuck.
Jesus, getting so much nostalgia from this thread. I never really disliked Voyager, hell I probably liked it the most since I was like 10 when I first watched it, and all the freaky stuff that people are mentioning just looked awesome to a little kid.
I mean, now that I'm more than twice as old I can appreciate how grounded TNG and DS9 were in comparison, but back then Voyager just seemed really colorful and fun, instead of being stuffy and boring.
>>13951657
I think he means that as an admiral she doesn't go out on adventures anymore and therefore doesn't get to fuck shit up
>>13951667
He ended up staying the same rank durong the whole trip while the kid who served him a drink at DS9 ended up higher rank than him and having a far better character arc as well.
>>13951657
>>13951644
>>13951703
Booting someone upstairs is a very real thing. Especially in any even vaguely military organization.
>>13951628
>Or how they keep setting up ongoing holodeck subplots like Leonardo Da Vinci
Played by John Rhys-Davies, no less!
>>13949824
Wasn't there some shit about the staff hating him because he was some budding hearthrob and talked smack about the wrong person in an interview? And so they made his character the whipping boy?
Season 4 episode 24 Demon - Voyager lands on a planet to get deuterium. A metallic liquid creates clones of the crew.
Season 5 episode 18 Course: Oblivion - Voyager using an enhanced warp drive, starts falling apart. The crew learns they are clones created by the metallic liquid from the episode Demon. The ship and the clones all fall part before they can make it to a safe planet to land on. Though just in range of the real Voyager to notice something happened.
So which Voyager did we see in the episodes in between Demon and Oblivion?
People keep shit talking Voyager for habing nonsense episodes, but if anything they sound more interesting than aggravating
>>13952389
pilot episode is the biggest nonsense.
Welp, we could use the alien space station to teleport us all back to the Alpha quadrant. Yet we don't want anyone else using this space station. So we should blow it up and take the 80 year long way home. Because putting timers on explosives, so the space station explodes after we leave, is impossible.
>>13952404
Pilots are always stupid thoough, they rely on absolute suspension of reality in order to get a plot going
>>13952389
The premises range from interesting to wacky to wtf, but that's Star Trek in general. The original series had salt vampires and planet that parallel developed the american flag and constitution.
What a lot of Voyager's bad rep comes from is it purposely set itself up as a stranded ship with no support and a mixed crew of Federation officers and Maquis rebels. Then promptly dropped that to ape TNG, while have next to no consistency in any of the characters or tech or situations. And just generally having people make bad decision after bad decision.
If, however, you can ignore all that and just take each episode at face value, it's not so so bad as an anthology of sci-fi misadventures.
>>13952404
There were a gorillion kazon ships on their ass, they didn't have time.
>>13952407
TNG and DS9 had solid pilots.
TNG
>I as getting my bros together for grand adventure and then Q happened
DS9
>I got rekt in the war and now I'm assigned to this shitty post
>>13949824
What if The surviving Harry was the real one and the entire crew were the copies?
>>13951603
They had to reward her somehow for getting Voyager and crew back in one piece.
They also wanted her never in charge of anything again.
Hence they made her a low level Admiral. Cushy job. Prominant reward. Not in charge of anything that isn't delgated the task to some other captain or having clear instructions from a higher ranked Admiral.
>>13952307
The real one. The Silver Blood Voyager has a bunch of stuff happening that the real one hadn't like the super special enhanced drive that would have gotten them home in 3 years, and Paris and Torres getting married.
>Bringing /tv/ shitposting over to /m/
>>>/tv/66648088
>>13952629
>he literally goes to /tv/
>>13951128
As opposed to the TNG battles where they literally just sit there shooting?
>Picard: Evasive sequence, delta 3!
>ship barely moves
TNG's space battles were the epitome of boring.
>>13952651
they had to use practical models and a TV budget.
>>13951128
>>13952651
Both had good battles, if you want impractical stunts then go watch Star Wars.
>>13952307
>Season 5 episode 18 Course: Oblivion - Voyager using an enhanced warp drive, starts falling apart. The crew learns they are clones created by the metallic liquid from the episode Demon. The ship and the clones all fall part before they can make it to a safe planet to land on. Though just in range of the real Voyager to notice something happened.
I still don't get what was the point of that episode, might be the single most bleak episode of Star Trek I've ever seen
>>13951482
>Literally just beam her ass to the holodeck and project a holographic heart into her chest.
Funny story, they did that with Neelix when those organ snatching aliens took his lungs. They put him in a holodeck and create hologram lungs for him to be able to breath before Kes gave him one of her lungs.
>>13949824
The other day somebody stole everything in my apartment and replaced it with an exact replica... When my roommate came home I said, "Roommate, someone stole everything in our apartment and replaced it with an exact replica." He looked at me and said, "Do I know you?"
- Steven Wright
>>13951644
Kirk did enough damage as admiral that they revoked his rank.
>>13952196
But John Rhys-Davies is from the Isle of Man. How does he play a convincing Italian?
>>13952432
>and planet that parallel developed the american flag and constitution.
Also the nazi planet, but in fairness it was human interference that caused it to happen.
>>13953220
That's because he's Captain-fucking-Kirk.
>>13952250
I don't know about that, but I always heard he was going to be killed off to make room for Seven. Then pic related happened and they wrote out Kes instead.
I kind of felt bad for Harry the last time I watched through Voyager. He had a few decent focus episodes, but ultimately ended up as just Tom's goofy buddy who kept falling for crazy chicks.
>>13949831
Literally everytime they used holodeck to beam around.
>>13949845
Can confirm DS9 is great.
>tfw no comfy melancholy on a lonely spaceship on the edge of nowherefuck
>>13954684
"The 5'11" Wang"
Haaaaaaa... dick jokes.
>>13954684
>and they wrote out Kes instead.
I heard Kes' actor had problems with mental illness and drug use, which is why she left.
>>13954684
>I kind of felt bad for Harry the last time I watched through Voyager. He had a few decent focus episodes, but ultimately ended up as just Tom's goofy buddy who kept falling for crazy chicks.
Has there ever been a main character in Star Trek that has failed to make any impression on the audience? I can't remember anything he said or did that was memorable.
>>13949824
You think this is bad? Hoooo boy wait untill you see what they do to poor Tuvix (Iiteral premeditated murder) or the whole Equinox cluster fuck (Interogations that'd make shit like gitmo look tame) etc.
Just be glad it's not ENT because that makes VOY's worst look positively tame.
>>13955372
That's because ENT was the same group writers and director. It wasn't until its last season that they started to get their shit together with better people.
>>13955332
>Has there ever been a main character in Star Trek that has failed to make any impression on the audience?
The helmsman on Enterprise.
>>13949824
Because as you'll learn as you get older, outside of something like love or family people don't give that much of a shit. If you do your job and you seem ok and there's no beef between you and the difference isn't that memorable, nobody cares.
I guarantee the crew would rather take a duplicate than a Harry who's 40 years older.
They'd just never admit to it.
>>13950868
I liked her more before they took it all off. Dat pale slimy skin and hard rubber exterior.
>>13955372
>Tuvix
literally the most morally reprehensible thing a protagonist character does in any star trek series.
And the show has Vidiians as bad guys whose entire shtick is basically the same thing.
>>13950750
>never speak of it again
That's bullshit even Ben 10 had to revisit the concept that he had given birth when one of his babies came looking for him
>>13955388
Then they ditched the new writers for the last episode to bring Bermen and Braga back to give the biggest insult to Trek fans ever.
>>13955430
Tuvix was horrific but holy shit is it not even close to the worst. Dear doctor is by far the worst.
An episode that was supposed to show how the prime directive would eventually come to be ends with them genociding an entire race. this is made even more horrific later in Observer Effect when you have the ENT crew now on the receving end of the whole 'don't interfere with lesser race' bit.
Archer begs for help and the Organians point out that when he was in their position he left the less advanced race to die to which he responds by throwing a temper tantrum and calling them monstrous n shit.
It's made even worse when you realise and this is what alot of Dear Doctor apologists forget is that Archer promised to help the Valekians then lied to their faces about the cure then left them to rot all not on a sure thing but on a huge MAYBE.
>>13952436
They don't need to waste time strapping explosives to it hell the torps have been shown to have timed detonations before they could have activated the doodad then fire right before it sent them home.
Hell don't forget the barzan wormhole episode. 100% sure fire way back home lost because Janeway got in a pissy about a non federation race doing something against the prime directive so instead of taking her ship and crew home she broke the prime directive to stop 2 stranded Ferengi exploiting a primitive species because they were breaking a law that never applied to them.
Should have ended with her arrested and not promoted given half the milder shit she pulled nevermind the really big fuckups.
>It's a "McCoy slaps a woman and forces her to go through with an unwanted pregnancy" episode.
>>13950855
>Even Kirk, who would bring the Federation back to the brink of war purely for personal reasons, would find Janeway appaling.
I think the issue is less Janeway does bad shit and more Janeway does bad shit but the writers and universe expect us to think she's right even when she's constantly flipflopping on issues. She doesn't come off as someone making the most of a bad situation. She's not weighing her morality against the safety of her crew. She's just always right because she's Janeway.
Compare to SIsko in the pale moonlight as an example.
Sisko does some really fucked up shit here. It's all unquestionably wrong, immoral and he's damming himself for doing it. No one not even Sisko himself is going to defend his actions
Because a guilty conscious is a small price to pay for the safety of the alpha quadrant
>>13955859
In season 4 of Voyager they start making Janeway question her actions and she even admits stranding everyone in the Delta Quadrant was a mistake. Then in season 5 onwards she is back to her old ways as if nothing ever happened.
>>13955859
>Sisko does some really fucked up shit here. It's all unquestionably wrong, immoral and he's damming himself for doing it.
But it's not? All he actually did was tell the Romulans that they were doomed if they didn't join, and this is how it happens. They refused to listen, and he had to off 3-4 people so that he'd be taken seriously.
>>13956063
>They refused to listen, and he had to off 3-4 people so that he'd be taken seriously.
Oh shit you guys Janeway found the thread.
>>13955430
I always had a soft-spot for Tuvix because they at least didn't totally portray it The Indisputably Right Thing and treated it as an actual dilemma that not everyone agreed with Janeway on.
>>13955859
wasn't there one where Paris gets solitary for 30 because prime directive and then like, one episode later or previous Janeway's all "fuck the prime police"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TREQGl54BU8
I love DS9
>>13956325
Did they just manage to make root beer into a political message?
I think I need to watch Star Trek
>>13956350
DS9 is very UN Star Trek
Characters have depth and there's actually conflict and intrigue. The Roddenberry Utopia is called in question and it's ideals forced to contend with some harsh realities.
It's a far stretch from the constant grand standing and high horsing of the previous shows.
>>13956365
>DS9 is very UN Star Trek
yeah, I like DS9 and regular Trek, but DS9 is an SF TV drama that shares a setting with Trek more than anything else
"I'm not just any Cardassian. I'm Gul Dukat
>>13956063
He did give that one guy a shit ton of bio-mimetic gel which is basically treated as something like a wmd biohazard.
He also bribed Quark which is small potatoes but was essentially selling out his values.
>>13956425
>>13956451
>>13956451
They have space penicillin for that Dukat.
>>13956063
>All he actually did was tell the Romulans that they were doomed if they didn't join, and this is how it happens.
Did you not watch the episode? He falsifies information and is an accessory to murdering their investigators all in a elaborate ruse to get them to join in the war.
>and he had to off 3-4 people so that he'd be taken seriously.
Uh yeah. Murder is typically frowned upon in ..every society.
>>13956434
He also destroyed an entire planet's atmosphere making it uninhabitable to get rid of his enemies
>>13956456
>>13956462
I was focusing on pale moonlight but him playing tit for tat with the marquis with that made him just as bad as them or worse because ya know being in star fleet and being above such things.
>>13956480
well that's the thing about DS9. It's not about who's right so much as it's about who's willing to go the furthest
people are routinely forced to question and even sacrifice their ideals because the reality of the war won't allow them to cling them too.
>>13956480
The whole Maquis situation was fucked up to begin with. The Federation effectively abandoned several planets of their colonists and turned a blind eye to what the Cardassians were doing in the name of upholding a peace treaty.
>>13955415
Literally the only thing I can remember about him is that he was the black guy.
>>13956063
Did you even watch the episode in question and the blatant hypocrisy of Sisko that was on display throughout it because to him the ends justified the means?
He didn't tell the Romulans they were doomed if they didn't join the alliance, he forged evidence to make it look like the Dominion was planning to attack the Romulans and then gave it the Senator who negotiated the Romulan nonaggression pact with the Dominion. Said Senator finds it's a forgery and before he can reveal it to the galaxy Garak kills him and makes it look like it was done by the Dominion. Let alone all the actions leading up to that were he let's a convicted felon out of prison who then attacks Quark, who he then has to bribe to not press charges and sell highly controlled substances to a questionable source. All affronts to the uniform Sisko claimed the cherish. Granted this is the second time he's crossed the line since he did the same thing with his vendetta against Eddington and the Maquis.
>>13956365
A lot of the ideas that were used in DS9 were pitched in TNG but Roddenberrry personally killed them off because they conflicted with his utopia ideals. The big one was the entire plot line of Paradise Lost where high ranking Starfleet Officers attempted a coup. This was the original plot for the episode Conspiracy, but it had to be changed to the Neural Parasites and showed that Roddenberry had no problems with extremely graphic violence as long as it didn't disrupt his utopia.
>>13956425What about plain, simple Garak?
>>13956531
He was also the guy who grew up in space. There was a whole... one episode about that.
It was a pretty good episode at least.
>>13956552
>>13956434
Keep in mind that the guy that received the bio-memetic gel was also assassinated by Garak. That shit was probably quietly recovered from his quarters and never logged.
>>13956505
That reminds me of something really fucked up Picard did, the whole plot of Insurrection was preventing a conversion of healing particles into a usable form that could help potentially trillions of people because of a few thousand fucking space elves, which if I recall correctly is not enough for genetic diversity.
>>13956566
Was he? It's been a while but I don't recall that.
>>13956566
Sisko didn't know he would be, though. He was willing to let a shady black market merchant have a bio-weapon in order to get the Romulans into the war. A worthy trade-off? Maybe. But still dark dealings, that's the point.
>>13956552
>What about plain, simple Garak?
Why he's just a humble tailor
>>13956571
Yeah but see that's the thing, Picard's side was made out to be the RIGHT side even though there could have been some moral ambiguity they still turned the villain into a real villain
also fuck the space elves
>>13956576
yeah, I thought he just killed the Senator, the other people on the ship, and the forger.
http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm9681097 related
>>13956605
Further riffing on TNG movies the first two are much better than the last two.
Generations while it has it's issues is much better than the two shit piles of Insurrection and Nemesis the latter of which broke the odd even rule of Star Trek unless you consider the Galaxy Quest amendment.
>>13956659
>>13956605
I recommend reading Fade In by Michael Piller if you haven't (unpublished but downloadable in pdf form if you google). It's a first-hand account of the rewriting process on Insurrection and explains a good deal about how it ended up such a fucking mess.
>>13956365
>DS9 is very UN Star Trek
Impossible, DS9 gets things done.
>>13956505
The Maquis problem was entirely of their own doing. The peace treaty with the Cardasians put Fed colonies on the Cardasian side and vice versa but niether groups of colonists liked it.
Soon enough they started taking pot shots at each other and shit escalated.
The Eddington decides the best way to turn things in Maquis favour is to resort to biogenic whatever the fuck it is let's just call it poison.
What sisko does in responce is bad i won't even try to defend it but people keep forgettign WHY he did it.
The moment these shitty little terrorists decided to do this and remember the other rebels saw nothing wrong with Eddingtons plan they doomed themselves.
If Sisko hadn't taken them down they'd have given the Cardasians the perfect excuse to sail a fleet in and scour the DMZ.
Don't forget how long these fuckes lasted against an actual military. Ironicly the only reason they managed to do anything but annoy the Feds/Cards and not get shitstomped was the very complex political situation that they
hated so much the second one side went 'fuck it we don't care anymore' they got wiped out effortlessly.
The Maquis got exactly what they deserved in the end.
Fuck Eddingtons analogy with the book never worked because to do so the thief would have had to go around poisoning village wells and not stealing a loaf of bread.
>>13955332
I.... think he was learning to play the clarinet or something? And in Killing Game he was like the only person not locked in the holodeck, because apparently he was so uninteresting and non-threatening the space big-game-hunters relegated him to maintenance.
>>13956682
You know things are bad when even the exec's complain about how unsympathetic the Baku look.
We found paradise but fuck you peons for wanting it, Look at our perfect simple lives with
tiny gardens that couldent feed a family nevermind a whole village YEAH just a village for the whole planet no room for barbaric outsiders'
or
'Look how fucking good our rugs are we take almost an entire lifetime just learning to do rugs'
Interstellar travel pifft fuck that rugs are the new hottness'
Then
'Oh fuck the guys we kicked out of paradise held a grudge who would have guessed come save us from the consequences of our own actions you tech obsessed rugless savages'
Seriously why did Picard give these chucklefucks the time of day?
Oh right Baku chick sticking her tits in his face.
>>13957054
he was a better engineer than torres, so they kept him around to fix the ship
also because naturally as a beta he cannot hope to fight back against giant alpha male hunter-warrior race alone
>>13956462
>He also destroyed an entire planet's atmosphere making it uninhabitable to get rid of his enemies
Sisko only flooded the atmosphere with a substance that was poisonous to humans. This forced the human terrorists off the planet so that cardassians could settle it.
>>13957137
Considering Torres idea of fixxing things was to pysically assault her subordinates/broken equipment while swearing in Klingon at whoever walks into Engineering i'd be suprised if anyone was worse than her.
>>13956571
If planet had been left alone. Then the planet would have been healing and life extending for pretty much forever. By turning it into a commodity and harvesting the rings all at once. The planet would not have been healing anymore and the product would have run out.
The bad guys were doing to turn a profit and get back at their parents.
>>13957243
The planet noone anyway because the village of assholes don't want primitive spacefaring tech heads on their lawn?
Yeah it's gonna be squanderd either way desu.
>>13957243
Even so it would have helped more people than a few thousand space elves if it can run out.
>>13957119
>Baku
>Not indigenous to that planet
>They are in fact from a post warp civilization and don't fall under the non interference policy
>They are squatting on Federation territory, old territory too
>They have no intention of joining the Federation
>They are outright stealing a natural resource
>They are in conflict with what is literally their own children and thus an internal affair. Starfleet has no business getting involved outside of kicking them out of their boarder.
>The Son'a were allies of the Dominion and there should have been a larger Federation presence present other than a shuttle and a holoship for this joint op.
If they weren't the race of beautiful white people, Picard most likely wouldn't have helped and probably called them selfish before helping to beam them off the planet. The holoship wasn't even necessary after finding out they were post warp. The Federation was within their rights to beam the whole population directly into the brig.
>>13957263
>>13957258
It was only going to help the space elves children with the melting faces.
>>13957274
Ah so you haven't watched the movie.
>>13957294
I have.
You got a bunch of assblasted kids who wanted technology. So they left their paradise of a home to be spacefairing. They started aging and being ill. So they tried to recreate the life extension they had back at hom. Meanwhile they are one of the many bastard races of the galaxy. Using banned weapons, slavery, aligning with Dominion. Yet despite all their wealth, technology, and power, they were still going to get old and die.
So they trick this Feddie admiral into helping them relocate their parents and harvest the planet. Supposedly to give the healing radiation to Feds.
Yet what we really see are just those ass blasted kids. Wanting to be the only ones with the magic healing. They also wanted to be the ones with the planet in the brier patch.
Because why bother moving their parents off the planet in a holoship and the Federation help?
They could have just driven up to the planet, blasted the rings, and taken it for them selves. Leaving their technology-less parents on the surface to age and die.
>DS9 isn't Trek-like
Can we stop this meme?
It's really not that different. Sure, it changes up the formula with the space station and having some un-Roddenberry stuff, but it's pure Star Trek otherwise.
Section 31 was a great foil for the Federation. I know the concept upsets people, but they're an independent entity so they're really just villains who think they're Federation.
DS9 is slightly edgier Star Trek. It takes the standard Trek format and injects it with imperfect characters and some no-win moral situations.
Also if you don't like Kira then get out of my face lad
>>13957355
KIRA IS CUTE!
>>13957355
>but they're an independent entity so they're really just villains who think they're Federation.
When Sisko officially inquires Earth HQ about Section 31, doesn't he get a bullshit answer that tries to be neutral/non-comment but vaguely hints at the Federation pretending to not know?
Sort of like the "we can neither confirm nor deny" comments the US government occasionally gives out.
>>13956597
with a box inside his skull that gives him plesure
>>13957355
Roddenberry would have hated the Dominion War Arc.
Look at this traitor
>>13957318
They didnt leave they were banished because they rejected their parent's whole luddite holie than thou attitude.
Said enlightened people decided killing them was wrong so they threw them out and condemed them to a slow death.
Genius.
>>13956365
To be fair alot of the people involved appeared to want to at least try something abit different.
Plus you had Babylon 5 making it's debut.
>>13954684
>5' 11" Wang
>>13957372
Get off the internet, Gul Dukat
>>13957423
Well he was Locutus of Borg after all...
Jadzia was a cunt
>>13957380
He would have hated a lot of things in DS9 because it goes against the ideal universe he wanted to create.
As much as I love TOS, if Gene was alive today people would call him the most obnoxious, "come on people it's 2016" SJW ever. It worked back then because it was the 60s and the things he was putting on television was radical. Nowadays it would just be irritating.
>>13950773
The music makes it ten times more funny.
>>13957890
It's not fair to compare the eras. 50 years ago there were real rights issues. Now we have people manufacturing them to either push agendas or so they can feel like they're doing something important.
>>13957881Jadzia liked cunt
>>13957953
this is a seriously stupid post, congratulations
>>13957953
>It's not fair to compare the eras.
That's why I said "it worked back then"
>>13956597
I'm still not entirely convinced Garak isn't played by Robert Englund.
>>13957028
>the second one side went 'fuck it we don't care anymore' they got wiped out effortlessly.
That was nice bit of continuity in voyager. When they get in contact with the federation, they find out what happened to the rest of the maquis. They got their shit kicked in by the Dominion.
>>13957355
kira's actress is GOAT milf
someone post that pic of her on the back of the golfcart
>>13957881
agreed, she was a fucking mary-sue. ezri was far superior and cuter
>>13957380
I mean the only bad about it was the Breen out of no where joining at the last second
Didn't Janeway bang one of the holodeck characters at some point?
>>13958219
I know she refused to sleep with Q
>>13958118
4u
Nana Visitor asSochie Heim
So was it a coincidence that Planet Zeon was the episode with the nazis?
>>13949837
If you are going to watch it then I highly recommend using a guide so you can skip all the shitty episodes (which is like 90% of the series).
>>13957372
eh I like ezri better
>>13958219
Yeah, the irish guy in the irish town sim... Fair Haven or something. She and Chakotay discussed how since she was captain, she couldn't get involved with anyone or it could present a potential conflict of interest if she had to make a judgement call involving that person. And contact with aliens was fleeting. So having a relationship with a hologram might be the only viable way.
Which is bullshit, because A: Kirk, B: Kirk, C: Kirk, and D: Picard.
>>13958256
The only crewmember Picard ever gets involved with he ends up transferring to another ship for that exact reason.
>>13958125
>>13958248
Why do you always sperg about Ezri whenever we have a Star Trek thread on /m/? Give it a rest baka it's fukken creepy.
I'm rewatching TOS, and I'm remembering Futurama's quote of "79 episodes, about...30 good ones"
So if I don't feel like watching the bad ones, which ones should I make sure to rewatch?
>>13958294
Balance of Terror
Space Seed
>>13958317
And of course, Mirror, Mirror
>>13958321
City on the Edge of Forever
as bad as Voyager was remember, it was still somehow better than Enterprise.
>>13958361
I rewatched Enterprise a few years ago and while the first two seasons were pretty rough with them trying way too hard to make Archer into a proto Kirk. The third and especially fourth felt like it was really finding its stride though. If they hadn't been cut off at 4 I know they were planning on making Jeffrey Combs character a part of the crew and I think that would have added a great dynamic to it.
>>13958373
>trying way too hard to make Archer into a proto Kirk.
Wasn't that the point of the show?
Granted I never saw Enterprise, but the commercials made it REALLY come across as TOS before TOS.
>>13958294
>I'm rewatching TOS, and I'm remembering Futurama's quote of "79 episodes, about...30 good ones"
Speaking of, when I first saw that episode I didn't get the joke of why the character was called Welshy. I grew up in a country there I never really heard of Wales.
![Archer 2009 S3.E8.avi_snapshot_10.07_[2012.03.28_00.09.54].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IWDE2bx.jpg "Archer 2009 S3.E8.avi_snapshot_10.07_[2012.03.28_00.09.54].jpg")
>>13958373
Id sooner trust Sterling Archer to captain a star ship than Enterprise Archer
Dumb Nigga actually brings his beagle on the ship with him let's it piss all over the aliens sacred landmarks and wonders why they get mad.
Hoshi a cute
>>13958321
>Mirror Sulu is extremely straight
It's hilarious now
>>13958294
The trouble with Tribbles is good fun
not very thought provoking or meaningful in the grand scheme of things. But fun.
Honestly Id say just watch em all. You really have to watch the good and the bad if you ever plan on developing a sense of taste.
>>13958294
you have to watch the bad ones too
bad TOS is just as important to defining Trek
>>13958402
regular Sulu's straight too, like when him and Chekov follow dat klingass around at the end of 5
>non Japanese
>/m/
>non Japanese
>good
>>13958385
They tried to make him proto Kirk and copy the whole five year mission thing.
The problem with this was VOY had just done the 'One ship alone' episodic thing. To solve this they slapped in the temporal cold war shitfest and ended up with a long term plot episodes with random stuff mixed between em.
The problems start right off the bad though with archer being an ass to the Vulcans for the sake of being an ass. His attitude and behaviour pretty much proving the Vulcans point
about mankind not being ready for them everytime he opens his mouth.
It promptly goes down the toilet with shit like Tucker being raped and growing Nipples on his wrist because some alien chick told him her species idea of sex was a game while he was high as a kite. Phlox and Archer vowing to help a pre warp civilisation then lying to them and condeming them to certain death for the sake
of another race on the planet who MAY evolve to become to dominant race but only if the other dies for some reason.
Also they spend so much time on random crap like people rubbing stuff on each other in the decontamination chamber, Hoshi being afraid of everything and Archer's fucking dog.
>>13958399
I'm suprised half the races they encountered didn't try to destroy the Earth for something Archer did.
>>13949870
>visit planet with goop that can copy the crew
>they're peaceful and want to explore like the Voyager crew
>seasons later
>crew is feeling odd
>ship starts falling apart
>they're all goop aliens and they fucking forgot
>they took on the memories of the original crew and are now dying because they can't survive in space
>they have to travel all the way home to not die
>everyone dies, one by one
>>13958645
>Archer's fucking dog
Heh. So obvious you all watch SF Debris videos.
So do I.
>>13958700
I don't agree with him all the time but his ENT stuff was mostly spot on.
What's bad is you still get people who try to claim shit like Archer and Phlox's behaviour in Dear Doctor
as being a good and noble thing while using the continuing to use the exact arguments he deconstructs in his review to justify it.
Got a good chuckle at his whole 'evolution of the Valakians and Menk' bit at the end i have to admit.
>>13949845
>>13954691
>>13949837
instead of watching a ripoff watch Babylon 5
>>13958739
Oh, you mean SeaQuest in Space?
>>13958752
>SeaQuest in Space?
I'm asuming this is some atempt to make people angry or troll but its's so irrelevant and random that the only effect it has is a moment of confusion followed by dismisal.
0/10 Try at least a little bit m'kay.
>>13958752
da fuck is SeaQuest?
>>13958766
Show about a super sub going around saving whales n' scientists from pirates in submarines.
What it has in common with a show about a space station full of politics and ancient aliens playing puppet masters is anyones guess.
Nice to see a Star Trek again, I miss the old generals back when I was rewatching the franchise. I never did get through Voyager.
I actually picked up a huge box of Star Trek books a few months back, mostly the old numbered TOS Pocket Books. They are largely terrible. Of the dozen I've read only two have been decent. Are there any books worth reading?
>>13958294
Have what I think was the most updated version of the recommendation chart from the the old Star Trek generals we used to have.
>>13958791
Are those the godawful photonovels? I used to work in a bookstore and had to spend 6 hours one day adding all of those to the shop's new online store. After about the first 20 or so I got bored and started writing sarcastic blurbs for them all. I don't work at that bookstore anymore.
>>13958236
>>13958791
Most stuff by Peter David is pretty good. I heard some good stuff about the canon post-series DS9 books where Sisko comes back from the Prophets and is full on Space Jesus, but I haven't read them myself. Andrew Robinson did a very good book about Garak which is every bit as duplicitous and semi-factual as you would expect from that character.
>>13958885
It is probably a legit mental condition in Star Trek, where people are never sure if they are in a holo deck or not.
>>13958791
>That one TOS episode where they attract a Romulan ship, beam over and literally rip their cloaking device out of the ship and beam back with their captain and just race off
>>13958645
>The problem with this was VOY had just done the 'One ship alone' episodic thing.
I felt like ENT sort of did the alone and struggling for resources thing a little better than VOY. Especially during Season 3 when they were chasing Space Al Qaeda. But I suppose at that point they weren't being so episodic anymore.
>>13958848
No, just regular novels. Most of them are from the late 70s and early 80s. There's a lot of weird characterizations and stuff that obviously contradicts Klingon and Romulan stuff from later series.
Basically each novel is pointless because they always go back to the status quo at the end because they all take place during TOS instead of after the movies. One was straight up Spock/Kirk slash fiction and I dropped fast as I could.
I have a feeling the TNG and later novels are better due to more fleshed out universe.
Is there any hope that this new Star Trek show will be any good and proper Trek, or will it just try to be mindless action sci-fi show and ape the recent movies?
>>13959041
They brought in Nicholas Meyer, so I'm relatively optimistic
>>13959041
http://www.denofgeek.us/tv/star-trek/253329/exclusive-nicholas-meyer-says-new-star-trek-series-is-innovative-and-different
>The one thing I can relate to you is that The Undiscovered Country—according to Bryan [Fuller]—is a real sort of taking off point, or touchstone for how I guess he’s thinking about the direction of the new show. I don’t want to be misquoted and I don’t want to misquote him, but he’s fond of that film. Let’s put it that way.
mitebcool.jpg
>>13958771
They aired about the same time.
>>13958766
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg6AsKsPH24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6aXs42iFYk
>>13959072
this
although Guy Who Wrote Some DS9 and Voyager and the most recent announcement of Rod "Gene's Son" Roddenberry don't do much for me for or against, Meyer's had a lot of great Trek on his watch
>>13957423
Janeway posters are getting good.
>>13959202
It's too bad it'll be cancelled before season 2 regardless of quality, since they're only showing it on CBS's shitty streaming service instead of actually putting it on television. Not to mention that service is US-only so that cuts off a good chunk of the fan base from watching legally.
>>13958607
>you have to watch the bad ones too
>bad TOS is just as important to defining Trek
But when TOS got bad it got REALLY bad.
>you will never experience another renaissance of Star Trek like we got in the late 80s/90s
It's ogre lads
>>13959363
>Not to mention that service is US-only so that cuts off a good chunk of the fan base from watching legally.
>"Our international distribution guy is going crazy; he can't wait to get out to the marketplace and sell [it]. Right away, we're more than halfway home on the cost of the show from international alone. The risk is small in seeing the track record."
>>13959202
>innovative and different
Wow it's like i've never heard this from a new trek show.
Remember how ENT innovated with oily decontamination rooms and had
Vulcan titties which are different to Borg titties?
>>13958898
>It is probably a legit mental condition in Star Trek, where people are never sure if they are in a holo deck or not.
Computer, end simulation.
>>13959760
What if you're in a holodeck inside the holodeck?
Holodecks would be the most cancerous thing for society. Old people think vidya is bad? Just wait until holodecks hit. Now you wouldn't just have lone killers taking out tens of people, but trained sociopaths who have lived it over and over again. Just imagine all of the NEETs playing their fantasy MMO personas for so long they start blurring it with the real world. Or how erogames would end up with people acting it out in real life. Holodecks are degenerate.
>>13959788
then you're Moriarty
>>13959800
Im sorry I couldn't hear you I was busy in a dirty pair sandwich
>>13959488
in order to understand the true highs of Trek you must see lizard Janeway fuck and hippies sing their way into taking over the 1701 to understand the true depths
>>13959845
man season 1 TNG was just dreadful
>40 Nova Bombs
>>13959800
>end up with people acting it out in real life
Why would you bother doing that when you have the perfectly realistic and consequence-free holodeck scenario readily available? The actual danger is copious amounts of people becoming complete recluses.
>>13959867
yup, but without Planet Of Fucking And Killing Wesley you won't see how far they've come by Best of Both Worlds.
>>13959908
Because they become unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality or let their holodeck behavior manifest in real life.
>>13959845
>you must see lizard Janeway fuck
I saw all of voyager because that's what aired when I was old enough to care about ST.
>>13959835
This guy knows what's up
>>13959835
>holodeck
>anime
>fully 3 dimensional
The level of uncanny valley would make you go insane
>>13960102
eh. at worst it'd be a bit Who Framed Roger Rabbity
Is Voyager that bad? I'm almost done with DS9 and was going to watch it and Enterprise next. I hear he second half is better than the first
>>13960102
I imagine it'd look more like being in a Pixar movie, or IGLOO at worst. Cartoon designs, sure, but rendered as 3d bodies.
I for one would totally a Luna like this.
>>13960135
If you're going to watch Enterprise, you may as watch Voyager first.
>>13960102
cel shading
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hfinojINPE
>>13960179
I'm pretty sure cell shading wouldn't work. A holodeck object is an actual three dimensional object, not a two dimensional render of one.
>>13960135
The first two seasons are really, really bad. It slowly gets better after that. It's never solidly amazing but there are some good episodes in the later seasons and some popcorn-fun episodes too.
I think it's more survivable if you watch it in broadcast order with DS9, but if you're almost done with that one it can't be helped.
>>13960217
>>13960135
The EMH carries the show
Neelix is worse than Jar Jar
>>13960135
If you're going in with the mindset to nitpick and do comparisons with how it meshes into the greater Star Trek universe, you'll probably go crazy and/or very very angry. But if you just accept the show at face value and take it as it comes, it's rather enjoyable.
Mind, the last time I watched it I was in high school, and I'd only ever seen disparate episodes of TNG and DS9 inbetween, so I didn't have the autist's mindset of getting angry at how much things changed. Just watching it as pure entertainment is probably just fine, as long as you remember that you're meant to watch it for entertainment.
>>13960135
The dumb shit in Voyager is so dumb its unbelievable.
>>13960239
>hurr autists autists autists
You really should drop it. When people complain about Voyager, it's mostly related to the characters and plotlines. Sure, there's some tech related flaws that people mention but that's prevalent in every Star Trek series.
>>13960214
Considering everything in the holodeck is endlessly permutable and can be rendered any way the user desires, why can't they just render flat surfaces?
>>13959760
Holodecks malfunction all the time. It could be programmed not to respond to your commands.
>>13960674
In all honesty, how many times in the franchise has the holodeck actually malfunctioned and put the people inside in danger?
>>13960701
In my head I count 14 times among TNG/DS9/Voyager/Enterprise
>>13958898
pretty sure there's already some kind of mental issues with people thinking the whole world is some kinda extensive game of the sims
but yeah I guess it would be more widespread in that kind of situation.
>>13960217
VOY is inconsistant as hell. You get good episodes don't get be wrong but you have to trawl alot of mediocre and bad stuff to get em.
ENT is even worse than this the Captain's a colossal hipocrite on a scale even Janeway can't match. watch him preach compassion one ep then kill indescriminately in another. Sounds bad?
Wait till you see starfleets finest, best of the best take his fucking dog on a first contact and act confused when the locals take offense to it pissing on their stuff.
Once the new writers get in things get better but then they bring tard and tarder back for the final episode so they can give their 'gift' to ST fans.
Whats the gift you ask?
Just a huge insult to everyone who ever gave a single damn about ENT's concept.
>>13960795
Archer's entire MO seems to be: Piss off the Vulcan's and especially T'pol
who in all fairness aren't exactly at their best either but Archer goes out of the way to do the wrong thing if it will spite them
