The core fighter seems like a really superfluous gimmick. If the legs or torso or compromised you're left with half a mobile suit or possibly none at all. If you really want a fighter that badly you could just have the entire god damn suit transform and if you want an escape pod that's fine and dandy too. Hell, you could have a transforming suit with an escape pod cockpit. But having a suit split into parts which assemble on the battlefield is a titanic gamble and the joint where the leg and torso parts connect is one hell of a weak spot. If an enemy MS pilot got creative he could wedge those apart and end your battle real quick.
>>13924024
Amuro doesn't have the first newtype flash until the black tristars attack
on earth
checkmate spacenoids
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/LKZizHZ.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
>>13924024
Wow it's almost like what you're describing is the entire concept behind the Zeta-line of mobile suits.
>>13924024
They didn't have the technology for transforming suits at that point. You gotta start somewhere.
>>13924035
I know what Zeta is. But Zeta-type suits were abandoned in favor of core-fighter based suits. Re-GZ was a shitty partformer anyway.
>>13924024
No shit. It's just a gimmick to sell toys to children.
>>13924041
In the Victory era, yes. However with the League Militaire's structure and parts availability there are some benefits to using the core-block system. Uso demonstrated this through his use of the Victory Gundam.
As for the ZZ Gundam, that was just a complete mistake. The core block system wasn't utilized for the Second or Third Neo Zeon wars.
>>13924041
>But Zeta-type suits were abandoned in favor of core-fighter based suits.
What?
>>13924068
Crossbone
Victory
Turn A
G-Reco
![[Kamigami] Kidou Senshi Gundam UC Unicorn - 06 [BD 1920x1080 x264 AAC(Jap,Eng) Sub(Chs,Cht,Jap,Eng,Fre,Spa)].mkv_snapshot_04.01_[2016.02.25_22.35.01].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/YbrzNTN.jpg "[Kamigami] Kidou Senshi Gundam UC Unicorn - 06 [BD 1920x1080 x264 AAC(Jap,Eng) Sub(Chs,Cht,Jap,Eng,Fre,Spa)].mkv_snapshot_04.01_[2016.02.25_22.35.01].jpg")
>>13924041
But the Nemo, Jegan, Jesta and ReZels aren't Core Fighter type suits.
And the ReZels have ball cockpits that eject.
What suits are even core fighter suits?
>>13924064
>Uso demonstrated this through his use of the Victory Gundam.
Damn right he did!
>>13924074
Because canon-wise Transformable Mecha are expensive as fuck that's why only Elite EFSF can use it while the regulars Fed soldier stuck with Jegan/Jamesgun/EZ-Gun
>>13924024
>wedge them apart
Or he could just, you know, attack it like normal. Obviously the show doesn't display a compromise of the integrity of the mobile suit due to the core fighter system, realistically or not, so this isn't really a problem.
Real life reason: Gundam was supposed to be able to swap parts with Guncannon and Guntank with the core fighter as a base but Tomino thought it was bullshit and gave the toy company the middle finger. Plus, combining robots were popular back then. The whole reason Gundam was such a hit was because it was so outside of the traditional mould. Everyone was doing combiners and in order for Gundam to get approved it had to be toyetic enough to appeal to the sponsors.
In-Universe Reasons:
It's cool.
The Federation had only trained pilots up to that point.
The learning computer was considered valuable enough to create a very reliable escape system.
And so on.
Was the core-block system used in any mass produced mobile suits aside from the Victory Gundam? I can't think of any other examples.
>>13924076
From early UC? S Gundam and ZZ come to mind, there's probably some others.
>>13924084
>Transformable Mecha are expensive as fuck
And core block mecha aren't because...?
>>13924074
They all came long after that time. And anyway there are a lot more of transforming suits than core based suits.
>>13924089
Transformable just seems more practical. Macross has shown how it can sometimes be way more useful to be a plane rather than a robot.
>>13924094
>Transformable just seems more practical.
That wasn't the question.
>>13924024
>If the legs or torso or compromised you're left with half a mobile suit or possibly none at all.
It's an escape pod function. If a normal mobile suit had the legs or torso compromised, it's just as fucked.
>If you really want a fighter that badly you could just have the entire god damn suit transform
They don't. WB only used it as a fighter because they lacked conventional fighter craft, and when they did, they didn't disassemble the mobile suits to use the core fighter inside, they had dedicated core fighters (later with the addition of the G-parts or Core Booster) for the job.
>But having a suit split into parts which assemble on the battlefield is a titanic gamble
They never assembled on the battlefield, except for the dumb moments in ZZ and when the League Militaire was on the run in the early episodes of Victory. Even then, Victory acknowledged that it was a risk by having enemies shoot down parts.
>and the joint where the leg and torso parts connect is one hell of a weak spot. If an enemy MS pilot got creative he could wedge those apart and end your battle real quick.
Getting shot or cut by a beam sabre would "end your battle real quick" for a non-modular MS all the same.
>>13924041
The Federation never adopted any MS with core fighters after deciding not to continue with the Zeta Plus development. They went with the GM III and Jegans.
If you were referring to Victory, then you're only thinking of the V1 and V2 Gundams. The Zanscare modular suits don't have core fighters as they're just suits that can split into upper and lower halves (or have modular backpacks), while the Federation and LM's mass production suits aren't modular at all.
>>13924064
Yes, ZZ's structural design was a problem. In the show it went through some design changes and equipped full armor parts that even prevented it from transforming. The technical explanation was that it was not very strong under stress and needed to be reinforced.
![latest[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/JNpffFV.jpg "latest[2].jpg")
>>13924089
IIRC Core Block system were only exclusive to Gundams, make sense since Gundam were a prototype test bed that's why Fed ram so many technological mumbo jumbo to find a something they can develop into a mass produced unit.
>>13924024
Core Fighter-to-Gundam transitions were practiced but it was easier for the White Base simply to launch the suits, and that's usually what happened.
If I could post "Uplift of Guntank" I would, but I can't. Project V as a whole was meant to be a group of highly modular MS, with the Core Fighter living up to its name as a basis for combinations of the Guntank, Guncannon, and Gundam, however this was never really realized in-series.
Anyway, the Core Fighter is simply a glorified escape pod. This is mentioned in-series. It acts as a core, that's it.
>>13924089
Creating two totally different machines with 100% parts compatibility but entirely different purposes and structures and it can transform from one mode to the other near-instantly and getting damaged doesn't fatally inhibit the ability to transform and the transformation actually provides a serious change in the mecha's capabilities
OR
Split the machine into three parts that can dock together, one of these parts happen to be pilotable by itself.
>>13924106
>glorified escape pod
>amuro and ryu shoot down like 30 dopps over the course of the show in 2 core fighters
>>13924086
It wasn't. There are non-canon examples like the GM in the MSG novels still having a core fighter system, or the GMs in Thunderbolt having a simplified core block with tiny thrusters that allows them to eject, but don't double as fully combat capable mini-fighters.
>>13924106
>If I could post "Uplift of Guntank" I would, but I can't. Project V as a whole was meant to be a group of highly modular MS, with the Core Fighter living up to its name as a basis for combinations of the Guntank, Guncannon, and Gundam, however this was never really realized in-series.
In theory it works, but having Guntank upper body on Gundam legs is kinda silly and probably not a very stable firing platform (unless it was lying down or something).
In recent MSV-R, there's a GM cannon prototype which is basically a Guncannon torso on Gundam/GM legs, and it was apparently a failure because the legs were too light-weight to provide stability or something.
>>13924099
Bear in mind that during the early episodes of Victory the LM were trying to travel covertly with the Gundam from place to place and had to use trucks. That's one reason I really like those episodes, it just starts them off in this shitty situation where this ill-advised shit is the only option.
>>13924076
rx-78 series, GP(technically rx-78)01, 01fb, 03 (not sure if Gerbera has one desu), ZZ, S Gundam, Victory I guess.
>>13924024
>The core fighter seems like a really superfluous gimmick. If the legs or torso or compromised you're left with half a mobile suit or possibly none at all. If you really want a fighter that badly you could just have the entire god damn suit transform and if you want an escape pod that's fine and dandy too. Hell, you could have a transforming suit with an escape pod cockpit. But having a suit split into parts which assemble on the battlefield is a titanic gamble and the joint where the leg and torso parts connect is one hell of a weak spot. If an enemy MS pilot got creative he could wedge those apart and end your battle real quick.
The core fighter is a toyetic gimmick. It was put in 0079 to make Gundam a transformable robot. It was toyetic interference in full. It's no surprise the Gundam film trilogy doesn't have the core fighter. Tomino excised it from the footage so as to make the Gundam more realistic and to eliminate the more egregious super robot tendencies.
In other words trying to rationalise the existence of the core fighter is an exercise in futility.
>>13924024
>Trying to put this much fucking logic into a toy
>>13924083
Fucking Gundam can't even break some chains?
>>13924603
Let me ruin the scene for you some more:
Uso could have fired the head vulcans at the chains. While the beam sabres can't exactly be used like that, the beam shield deploys from the elbow part of the forearm and could have been used to cut the chains as well.
The chains are "hanging" from the ceiling, but they're in a zero gravity block of the space colony (the core fighter floats away). There's nothing weighing the machine down, so kicking downward or using the thrusters to move the suit up would leave enough slack on the chains for the Victory to bring its hands together to untie itself. Even just lifting up the arms might give enough slack for it to do that as well.
The chains are wrapped around the white forearms, which is thicker and wider than the hands. The forearms are also tapered, they're thicker toward the elbow and thinner toward the wrist. The hands can just slip through the chains if Uso pulled the arms downward.
What are some examples of a core fighter emergency eject?
I've never seen one in any of the shows I've watched, and I cringe whenever someone goes out to fight using a core fighter. Like, if it gets blown up you can kiss goodbye to using an entire mobile suit.
Not to mention to the whole "Dump the parts out of a plane and reassemble them midair" is silly even for a cartoon.
>>13925030
Gp01fb vs gp02
>>13925065
yea i seem to remember Kou going balls-out without the waist/legs once or twice
>>13925065
>>13925075
Gp01-FB vs. Val Varro was pretty fucking boss.
>>13924117
Well, that says more about how absolutely absurdly shitty Dopps are than anything.
>>13925131
ZZ had already done it
The core fighter can easily be rationalized with the realization that the Gundam's combat data is and was just that fucking important to the war effort.
Additionally, the Core Block design wasn't even all that complex or structurally unsound. Literally a square that could bend slightly when folded up for docking, not nearly as complex, advanced or expensive as a transformable MS based on movable frame technology. Both the Gundam and Core Fighter were semi-monocoque.
>>13925030
>What are some examples of a core fighter emergency eject?
Amuro used it to escape from A Baoa Qu. Uso abused the Victory's modular parts to avoid getting fatally hit a lot of times, way too many to count. Not sure if Judau used it, possibly in the final duel with Haman. Kou ejected the legs when the GP01Fb got caught by the Val Varo's claw. Loran used it to escape from Gym Ghingingham on the moon, after which his Gundam was captured by the enemy. Shinn used it a few times, in a fight with a mobile armor and against the Freedom.
>I cringe whenever someone goes out to fight using a core fighter. Like, if it gets blown up you can kiss goodbye to using an entire mobile suit.
It's already been mentioned in the thread, but whenever White Base or Albion or Argama or League Militaire sent out a core fighter as a scout or fighter, it was always a spare. They always have spares. Except for the Impulse Gundam from Destiny.
>Not to mention to the whole "Dump the parts out of a plane and reassemble them midair" is silly even for a cartoon.
As far as I know, only Destiny did that all the time, and it happened a few times in early episodes of ZZ. Destiny was shit and ZZ was really trying to push the transformation gimmick which was later dropped.
>>13924024
I thought it was just a holdover from Getter that they quickly abandoned except for ZZ which combines every episode for no reason and Uso who is a core fighter expert.
>>13924024
That's one reason why the Turn A Gundam is my favourite. A lot of the design choices seem to make logical sense.
The only problem is that it makes the pilot a target, which may turn off some of the other people who like realism.
G Reco had a great core fighter too. It was so small it just popped out like an escape pod that could fly.
>>13924024
>The core fighter seems like a really superfluous gimmick.
Disagree. From a mechanical view, it's complicated. From a practical view, it's hard to use. But from a fantasy narrative perspective, it's great for surprise attacks. A skilled pilot with a core system can fuck the shit up. The problem is the entrance: the original core fighter design is more complicate to disassemble during battle. However, the design of the X1's core fighter is fucking smart.
>>13924083
The mechanics in V are terrible (visually speaken).
>>13929237
>The mechanics in V...
...are terrible (visually speaking).
