Would the Gundam franchise be better if they had dropped all the Newtype/Coordinator/Innovator nonsense?
No, because a vague power that binds everyone like the Force is part of what makes Gundam what it is.
>>13691915
That doesn't really answer his question, does it? Maybe it would be better if it wasn't what it is, but something else that is better.
>>13691922
He said if they dropped it, implying it was there before and now it's not.
And I say no. That's like taking the Force out of Star Wars.
>>13691915
Just because something similar is used in another property isn't a good justification.
>>13691915
>>13691933
I think its a matter of whether the story lines really need to have it in the first place.
In my opinion, it's too convenient of a plot device. It makes the writing seem lazy and weak.
>>13691908
tell that to all of the franchises that tried that idea and failed. Look at Macross, Dougram and L-gaim or any of the diamond dozen mecha shows from the 1980s. Pretty much all gundam clones, minus newtypes. Pretty much all of them are failures to this day.
>>13691908
0079 seems like it'd be better without it, but then you watch Zeta and onward. So no.
>>13691968
>Macross
>failure
It would have been better if magical teenage boys was just a thing in UC.
Ever Wing got in on the retardation with the Zero system.
>>13692014
I'm assuming that anon meant that it hasn't experienced the same level of success as Gundam.
>>13691908
Newtype shit in 0079/F91/Victory/G-Reco is all good
Everywhere else is some dumb shit
>>13692091
That has less to do with the content and more to do with the fact that Gundam is literally owned by a massive toy company for whom coming out with a new gundam every couple of years is a worthwhile investment to boost sales.
Every otaku in Japan could suddenly stop watching Gundam at all and it would take sunrise a year or two to realize it and stop, because Gundam production has been basically on autopilot for decades.
>>13691956
Gundam is about the character interactions. The war and all of that is just window dressing for it. So having something that connects the characters on a deeper level helps that.
>>13692109
I thought CCA did it well
And Victory for that matter although it got a bit silly with the Angel Halo, but then again whenever Victory wasn't bleak and depressing it was fully of silly Tomino-isms like that
No because that nonsense is essentially what Gundam is.Also, by its definition, UC is super and not real
>>13691908
I think so, because it is too easily accessible as a crutch to lazy writers.
Can the concept of Newtypes be used well? Yes, and VERY RARELY it has been.
Most of the time, though, it just a way to provide the absolute barest minimum of justification to grease the plot into its desired hole.
Why is the main character important? Shit I dunno, he is a newtype. Stronger than last time, even.
Should I develop this romance so it makes sense? Nah, we can just say that Newtypes get really into each other instantly.
Why do these two guys hate each other so much as to be lifelong rivals to the point of suicide? I could come up with a compelling reason... or do the newtype connection thing and call it a day.
How does the new superweapon work? Newtype controlled.
How will the MC save the day? Another patented one-off newtype miracle, never to be repeated.
This characters motivations don't make any sense? Hmmm... they can be a CYBER Newtype, which makes them batshit crazy! And then they can die, and that can be tragic! I bet we can do this exact plotline multiple times in the same show and no one will catch on.
So on and so forth.
If I was so inclined, I am reasonably sure I could sit down and draft you a new gundam show that fits the established mold and has literally every single plot important thing in it be Newtype driven in some way, from events to technology to characterizations. Because while it was originally just a bootleg knockoff of the force, Newtypery is basically the living embodiment of author fiat in Gundam now.
>>13691908
I don't even watch the newer Gundam stuff. First Gundam forever.
>>13692218
Sayla is so pretty.
>>13692263
Yep and her Japanese voice actress makes me feel things.
>>13691908
Zeta might've not been terrible if it hadn't abused the concept so much
>>13691908
>Would the Gundam franchise be better if they had dropped all the Newtype/Coordinator/Innovator nonsense?
No, it would be better if they sticked with 0079's idea of a Newtype rather than Zeta's
>>13692030
But in Wing, the Zero System was some hax0r technology, compared to the magical powers of the Newtypes, it's a lot less bullshit.
>>13692364
Quatre had some space magic bullshit, it was extremely minor though.
>>13692364
I find it more believable for technology to do that than superpowers.
>>13691908
No. People who hate newtypes and the absurdity it brings are no fun. You might as well take out psycommu weapons aswell.
>>13692364
Zero System is basically the NT Drive bullshit the Unicorn has. Cybernewtype with out the surgery on pilots.
>>13691908
I think that newtypes need to have a considerably larger amount of focus.
It's only ever irked me that they're so extremely vague which was ok when they were an emerging phenomenon in early UC, but I'd love for an ova or something set exclusively around the goings on of the Newtype Labs or something.
I also think as a thematic thing, Newtypes being a new stage of human evolution that are being corralled into an early extinction by humanity's current violent and short sighted nature is a poignant and very good story telling device. Hell if anything, newtypes arent used enough in gundam.
People complaining about newtypes being nonsense really need to pay more attention when watching Gundam.
>>13692512
Need an OVA on Jewdough's all newtype colony.
>>13691908
Maybe?
I mean, Wing, which had none of that was pretty popular with Japan and even managed to make a foothold in the US for a time.
08th MS Team also did pretty well without ever resorting to Newtype magics.
But like another anon said, it depends on the story you want to tell.
Wing's setting did pretty well, with the closet equivalent to Newtype magic being the Zero System, but it was purely a machine system rather than a pilot ability enhanced by magic metals and systems.
08th MS Team showed it could work without any such ability in their pilots.
>>13692512
>Kou
>knowing anything about women
The guy had a book on how to talk to women. As one of the few adult MCs in the franchise, he still acts naive. He can't even eat carrots without throwing a fit about it.
>>13692512
There is a light novel focusing on Four's days in the Titans' Cyber Newtype division, if that counts for something.
![cima2[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/R1DhWHG.jpg "cima2[2].jpg")
>>13692698
Cima was the only well written and important character in 0083.
>>13692726
There is Ecole Du Ciel too shedding more light on the Titans Newtype R&D
>>13691915
Nah, Gundam did not rip off the Force as every fucking scifi had a bullshit super natural element in it. Newtypes are closer to the Star Child bullshit in 2001: A Space Odyssey then the Force.
>>13692512
> /m/ The Quote
>>13691956
>In my opinion, it's too convenient of a plot device. It makes the writing seem lazy and weak.
Like it or not, it is needed. Gundam is always about someone who has an unusual ability who ended up fighting impossible odds, who came up on top because of something extremely unusual.
The key thing is that a protagonist who is simply an experienced soldier, has no reason to be any stronger than the hundreds and thousands of other soldiers he killed who are just as experienced.
>>13691908
I don't think it would be, yeah it can get out of hand and over the top but at least its entertaining.
No, because then the only reason they should survive as long as they do is super tech-gap (LAME) or being a mary sue, his enemies hesitate or suck, he keeps getting saved by his teammates, and command shits all over him daily. Then he gets handed a mobile armor for the finale and fucking dies.
>>13691908
newtype bullshit is the least of the gundam's problems desu
>>13691915
>>13691933
>beam saber
>light saber
It all makes sense now.
>>13693050
Did you miss the part where in F91 they use music that's actually from Star Wars?
>>13693070
Never saw F91
>>13691968
None of them "failed" just because they didn't have newtypes
>>13692565
When I pay attention to Gundam I get angry with how stupid it is
>>13693070
What song?
It depends on the series.Some series handled Newtypes better than others.
>>13693221
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJdyOO01HFo
I wouldn't mind them as much if they didn't feel like such a copout. 00 for example.
>>13692768
Isn't that literally what piloting the Gundam itself does, though?
Its also a pretty big clash with Gundams supposed 'more realistic take on war' theme that everyone claims is going on.
>>13693407
>more realistic take on war
It's also relative, its more "realistic" than Mazinger or Getter, less than VOTOMS or LoGH
>>13692754
>Newtypes are closer to the Star Child bullshit in 2001: A Space Odyssey then the Force.
>>13693303
00 was cool and had more useful/powerful newtypes
>>13693070
[Darth Lacus intensifies]
Maybe.
I personally don't like how, in-universe, the engineers and mechanics have zero idea how the psycoframe works despite spending the time to build and install it into a MS. Like, nobody even tries to explain it with their own theories as to how it worked when asked.
>It just works, we put it in a MS, give it to a Newtype
>And suddenly magic happens
>We don't know how this thing works at all, it just works.
It becomes this plot device that can do whatever the plot wants, and nobody knows how. It just does shit.
>>13691908
I don't think so, the operative thing being 'dropped all of it'.
It needs to be used with an amount of nuance very few series have really achieved, as other anons have said.
>>13693280
Holy shit I heard F91's soundtrack ripped off Star wars but I didn't expect it to be that blatant. Is star Wars not that well known in japan?
>>13694435
Apparently psycoframe is the psycommu built into the alloys that are used to construct the mobile suit itself. Like millions or more of tiny psycommu receptors in the very joints, bracings, inner plating of your MS (in Unicorn's case).
They got spooked by it being the genie and bringing wishes into reality and apparently after Unicorn, psycoframe research was abandoned and they go back to keeping the psycommu and the mobile suit separate.
... huh. Now I see why those jokes of Riddhe being the first Master Asia keep coming up.
>>13695679
>jokes of Riddhe being the first Master Asia
wat
>>13691908
no but it would be better if they stopped being force powers like they became after zeta
>>13695613
No, Star Wars is one of the most successful American films in Japan if i recall.
It's more of an homage i think, everyone in the audience would hear it as "star wars!" but they wouldn't care more than likely.
>>13695763
Yep.
Lots of anons forget that Gundam is definitely a product of the 70's, what with the concept of newtypes being heavily influenced by psychedelic and parapsychology that was prevalent in media then.
>>13693407
The newtype abilities of the pilot are relative to the odds stacked on them usually.
Amuro had some ESP capabilities because he was only fighting things mostly much weaker than Gundam, in Zeta, many of the late series Mobile Weapons were close to or higher in performance to the Zeta Gundam, so he was more powerful as a newtype, etc.
It's not the in-universe explanation for it all, but it's a part of the way the series is written.
>>13695806
Zeta was made in the 1980s, though.
>>13695819
Yes, but I meant more for MSG.
>>13692014
At least Gundam has some sequels i actually want to watch, or have enjoyed.
As far as i can tell, apart from Plus and II, none of Macross' sequels seem interesting. And i hear that II isn't even that great, just average.
>>13695755
http://desustorage.org/m/thread/13425850/#13428868
The earliest I can find it on the new archives. It was actually in 2014 or so.
For a joke, the coincidences that fall into place are unsettling.
>>13692123
>That has less to do with the content and more to do with the fact that Gundam is literally owned by a massive toy company for whom coming out with a new gundam every couple of years is a worthwhile investment to boost sales.
You do realize that both Gundam and Macross are owned by the same company right?
>>13692123
First of all both Gundam and Macross are owned by Bandai second the franchise became as irrelevant as VOTOMS after 7 before Frontier brought it back into the spotlight and even then nobody seems to hold SDF in the same light as 0079 or even remember it.
>>13692127
Nah, Gundam is about giant robots.
Let's face it: If Gundam was about characters it wouldn't have become a franchise. There would be no toys to push and the plug would've been pulled.
>>13691915
That's not how the Force works!
