How do you fix it?
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You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
How do you fix it?
>>13681952
>How do you fix it?
By having a script that is consistent from start to finish.
More importantly, write the ending FIRST, then portray the story backwards from there. So that the entire show has every episode leading up to that ending.
VVV has many cool ideas but no true central themes. This is one of the major reasons Sunrise originals often fail. Ideas do not a plot make. Much like Sora Kake Girl.
>>13681952
Remove the executive meddling from the second season, and just let it be a glorious mess like the first season was.
>>13682182
>no central themes
Yknow other than the whole "lies destroy" thing? The show consistently rides the theme of how trust and cooperation builds bonds whereas lies, no matter how well intended they may be, burn bridges.
Nah what it needed was better per-week pacing, I vividly remember being bugged by how utterly breakneck the show was, and that with maybe 4-6 more episodes it could develop itself without feeling too bullshit in the Okouchi tweest department while maintaining the Okouchi melodrama.
>>13681952
starting with who the fuck are those guys in that pic?
they never appeared in the series, right?
Among other things, get a director that doesn't like to insert a sing-a-long. This may be no Disney work, but that sequence was out of place and weird.
>>13682197
Only in a spin-off, yeah. Not sure if it's mobile or manga.
>>136821
Characters from the Light Novel series.
Undertaker. The two main pilots are Non-Magius who remote pilot mass produced valraves. I think they become magius and get real Valvraves later.
>>13682217
Did the director inject a musical into Thunderbolt?
I've been meaning to give Red Garden another go anyway since I kinda have a soft spot for out of left field stuff in fiction and last I recall Red Garden is straight up a battle musical.
>>13682197
Not aside from a blink-and-you'll-miss background cameo.
>>13682197
Valvrave The Undertaker
MCs are Nao (pink hair) and Jin (blue hair).
Basically, the plot runs parallel to the main events in the story.
If I'm remembering the plot mentioned by /a/ and /m/ correctly, Jin and Nao, who were equally lost and unsure what to do with their lives, run across two more VVV units referred to as Kagerous. However, these were different from the normal ones; they were remotely operated, and thus did not turn them into vampires. They end up operating under L-elf's command as a shadow defense force for the colony, and their main rivals are Infigal and Fadar.
At some point, their units are upgraded into full VVV units, and they do become vamps. Nao's unit becomes Unit II2 (replacement unit 2) while Jin's becomes Unit VII.
And thus, we have the Golden Seven (technically five; since Yellow and Blue were destroyed in the series proper). Which anons were wondering about when we only ever got 6 on-screen with one being stolen and used against the group.
This isn't 100% accurate, as the old archives haven't been fully restored and the VVV stuff are still missing. And even then, the former master archive links from that one /a/ thread are all dead.
>>13682244
Not yet, but there's a bit in the manga where someone sings a song in joy over the radio, iirc, so that should give Matsuo some excuse.
That aside, he inserted a song in the Kurenai adaptation too. Seriously, I'm surprised that he somehow showed some restraint for Gunpla Builders, even though it's so silly.
> Valvrave the Liberator
> It's not a shitthread!?
I'm proud of you guys. But to answer OP's question, I recommend starting with Shoko staying dead and continue fixing the other problems as they come along.
Optimism is nice now and again, but her death is what gave Haruto's desire to kick Dorsia's ass.According to the VVV wiki, the blue and yellow Valvraves were rebuilt. Their pilots are still dead as shit.
>>13682742
I dunno, I really like the idea of Shoko living to honor Haruto's memory in the epilogue.
Besides if L-Elf were magically retconned into being compatible with space vampirism he'd probably die real fast since Valvrave really hates male pilots.
>>13681952
Get a main character who isn't a whiny gutless wuss.
>>13681952
Get rid of Haruto.
Shpw is now 75% better.
>>13683071
>Shpw is now 75% better.
Nah since L-Elf is still there.
>>13683076
>Nah since best character is still there
I don't see your logic.
>>13682196
>Yknow other than the whole "lies destroy" thing?
Which turns to shit when you realize that the JIOR president got off scott free and lied to the public about his involvement, the fact that there's even more space vampires all over and the fact that the world is still being built on a giant lie. The theme falls flat though not as hard as A/Z.
>>13683097
>best character
Found the retard
>tfw Valvrager can't not stick his dick where it doesn't belong
>>13682196
>Yknow other than the whole "lies destroy" thing? The show consistently rides the theme of how trust and cooperation builds bonds whereas lies, no matter how well intended they may be, burn bridges.
Found the retard
>>13681952
Make it about Hitler Youth instead.
>>13683133
He said fix it.
>>13683100
And the giant witch hunt that scared the kids to abandon everything and run away into space.
>>13683139
>And the giant witch hunt that scared the kids to abandon everything and run away into space.
Found the retard
>>13681952
Scrap the entire project because it was a stupid idea.
>>13683144
>I didn't watch the show
Found the retard.
>>13683156
>He didn't watch the show
Found the retard.
>>13683152
/thread
There's multiple ways. In my opinion the moment the show irrevocably nosedives and never recovers is when Haruto decides to bring the Dorssian ship into the module and hide it from Shoko. It's a decision that's directly responsible for all of the other stupid shit that happens in the show's last act and is made for no reason that makes any kind of sense beyond muh bakemono complex. Have Haruto own up to his lies and face the consequences, but ultimately survive, and have his survival be because he finally told the truth. That way you have a thematic contrast with the Magius, who die out because they refuse to stop lying and give up their control.
There's a lot of ways you can take the last act to fit with this theme. If I felt especially sappy, I'd go with one wherein Shoko becomes a vampire herself and then co-pilots Hito with Haruto in the final battle, sharing the burden so that they each forget things the other can remind them of. There's other ways to do it, of course, but as long as Haruto eventually stopped being such a shitlord it would do a lot to make the show better.
>>13682742
>I recommend starting with Shoko staying dead and continue fixing the other problems as they come along
As much as I like the idea of getting a more determined Haruto, that feels like it would introduce more problems than it would solve. Not to mention, seeing that he has no longer drive to be alive other than getting revenge, he might kill himself faster by overfeeding his Runes.
Besides, the idea of >>13682196 's "Lies, no matter what kind of intention behind it, " is good. Just need a better (or maybe a much crazier than we actually get in-series) execution especially in the second half.
>>13683100
>the JIOR president got off scott free and lied to the public about his involvemen
The magic of good PR handling and politics. He was aware of the prop tactics L-elf used when the Earth Team went away and pretended to be take their dummy Valvrave bait. He has the "I'm a good Samaritan trying to help out only for those filthy aliens took advantage of my kindness" image.
>>13683152
>>13683178
Bottled water seemed like a stupid idea but it sold well. Just because it's a stupid idea doesn't mean it won't sell. However, just because you have something extraordinary (invention, idea, bullshit, etc) doesn't mean, money will come to you.
>the fact that there's even more space vampires all over and the fact that the world is still being built on a giant lie
Anime Epilogue says that the Magius and Council of 101 was wipe out while Earth is still on the witch hunt making Module 77 an outcast that may or may not be used as an excuse to be Martian Successor in SRW.
The LN epilogue agrees with the Magius Witch Hunt but mentions that there are two groups within the Magius: the ones in the shadow continuing with the research that Papa Tokishima's doing and those who share Liesellote's ideals that moved in with Module 77.
While the series never explicitly mentions how many space vampires in the first place, it does say that their number have been dwindled.
>>13684072
>The magic of good PR handling and politics.
So lying.
>>13684072
To be fair the president was a mere pawn of the Council and had every reason to lash out at them after that bit of intimidation laid on him with Amadeus getting jacked. He's the face of the backlash that ensues when the Council is consumed by the weight of its lies, the hurricane of primal human fear that the Magius thought had justified their masquerade when it instead gave it renewed vigor.
If the Royalists were at their core backed by those aware of the conspiracy and seeking to overthrow it, that would've been a nice touch. Doubly so if it was Magius themselves who've become disgusted with the state of affairs.
Re: witch hunts
The flashforward's choice of mentioning the phrase "Golden Seven" strongly implies that the Earth sphere in some way holds the New JIOR Kamitsuki in very high regard.
Or at least to the level of war hero status, which is kinda deserving of respect either way.
And considering they were the space vampires who, rather than dick over humanity, went to great sacrifice to protect humanity and even expose the magius world order, I find it hard to believe their empire is what it is because of a forced exile. Maybe they just wanted to fuck off to space, they're kids, some of them even immortal, they have it far better than anyone else of their kind when it comes to deep space exploration and settlement.
>>13681952
There's nothing to fix
>>13684072
> As much as I like the idea of getting a more determined Haruto, that feels like it would introduce more problems than it would solve.
That is one possibility. I dunno, I just never saw much point to Shoko other than having another pretty face around. Could you explain what problems would rise from Shoko staying dead?
>>13681952
1. Dump all side characters
2. Cut out half the episodes in the first half and just have all the units introduced/piloted in the second episode
3. Get to Earth by around episode 8 or 9
4. Put effort into the writing, backstory especially
5. Have ending themes that don't suck ass
6. Purge the shit comedy
7. No timeskips. PERIOD.
8. Give Unit 2 more screen time
9. Remove forced tragedy shit
10. Give Raizo's bike more screen time
11. aka back up plan: Build a time machine, prevent Infinite Ryvius from airing, and therefore prevent Valvrave from conception.
>>13684166
In the series, it has been said that the Magius doesn't care what humans do to each other so long as they don't impede their plans. Which is why the Dorssian Councellor/Head was jacked due to his plans involving the Valvraves.
As for the Royalists, it seems like they just don't like the idea of their monarchy getting replaced by militarism. Maybe because of the hellish training that they put their youth into (as seen with A-drei).
>>13684628
A couple of things come to mind:
- Akira would have to be found by someone else will have an effect on how Akira's boarding Unit VI and how the mid-season climax would play out.
- The elected officials of New Jion would be different. Most likely Satomi would replace Shoko as president because we don't know who else is running besides Thunder. This would lead to Episode 15 healing his relationship with Akira not happening and Akira doesn't even have a reason to save the president during the BAKEMONO incident.
>>13684498
There's always room for improvement though.
>>13681952
MORE RAPE
>>13685109
Hmm... You raise some valid points. Okay, so forget Shoko staying dead. But that does leave the one glaring problem: giving Haruto the determination to fight. He's by no means gutless like everybody says, but there's no denying the show made him more angsty than he needed to be.
>>13685135
MORE SINGALONGS
>>13685137
He gets shit on hard due to plot contrivances, at least cut him slack for having the determination to go through all that shit.
Even L-Elf had to tap out after his big setback, and he's one of the most ridiculously overskilled characters of the show.
>>13685137
>giving Haruto the determination to fight
Haruto's resolution at the end of Episode 14 was nice enough. It's just that the show's length is detrimental to his development, as in the universe shits on him the moment he steps forward making him stumble back. This is like D-boy having his TekSetter shattered right after he overcomes his worries of turning into a berserking Tekkaman and once he gets his Pegas along with Blaster Form, he gets smacked with memory loss right away.
>the show made him more angsty than he needed to be
I think it's more whiny/complaining than being angsty. It's not like it's not founded seeing that he got the short end of being the Rune source/fuel while the other pilots got no downsides of being a Kamitsuki.
>>13681952
For starters, get rid of the goddamn rape scene in episode 10.
If it has to be there, keep it off-screen and let human imagination figure out the rest.
I have addressed the elephant in the room and kicked it out, now let's see what we can do about the rest.
This thread has been surprisingly civil and decent.
>>13685561
I know, right? I wish threads were like this, but I guess that would make /m/ a tad boring.
Double down on the crazy.
I think the problem was it wanted to be both bland and crazy.
>>13685555
>get rid of
Quads aside, no. We need to go further and make it as explicit as possible. Maybe add tears in her eyes and trying to kick him away. Add some animalistic grunting from him when he thrusts. I mean make it as disturbing as humanly possible.
Then keep it on that for 20 minutes.
>>13685568
Na, man. The best debates are stable ones by people who know what they're talking about and have different viewpoints on the subject, not the ones that are people insulting the other side to cover up for their lack of knowledge on the subject.
>>13685652
True. By the way, what's your thoughts on how to fix VVV?
>>13683345
>In my opinion the moment the show irrevocably nosedives and never recovers is when Haruto decides to bring the Dorssian ship into the module and hide it from Shoko.
I think the whole Phantom ship debacle was brilliant if seen outside POV of Module 77 (AKA the protagonists). It shows how inexperienced the people of Module 77 are and only lasted for this long because of L-elf. With him out of commission and Cain on helm of the operations, it all goes in accordance with Dorssia's plans.
My main gripe would be its execution. It would've been better if it tied with its other multimedia counterparts. With Akira's chapter in the manga shows that Dorssia do attempt to bait the Valvraves out of the neutral area of the moon to take them out and Undertaker's Kagerous, they could've pulled off a better cameo (contacting Nao and Jin for help in taking down) and get an excuse that they'll scavenge the Phantom ship for parts along with information.
>Have Haruto own up to his lies and face the consequences, but ultimately survive, and have his survival be because he finally told the truth. That way you have a thematic contrast with the Magius, who die out because they refuse to stop lying and give up their control.
I liked how Valvrave ended in a refreshing (it's still lacking though) way wherein the ragtag bunch of young protagonists only manages to get a stalemate towards the old, experienced ones.
>>13684241
>the phrase "Golden Seven" strongly implies [...] in very high regard [...] Or at least to the level of war hero status
How about a nickname they earned on the battlefield, much like "Red Comet" and "White Devil"?
>went to great sacrifice to protect humanity [...]their empire is what it is because of a forced exile
The first thing shown was some innocent civilian hooked up to some machine that siphons their life energy. One good spin would make it look like the BAKEMONO are having an infighting and the surviving ones would have more "food".
>>13685561
>This thread has been surprisingly civil and decent.
It's because VVV is a mess, even for the few people who enjoyed it. So no one is butt hurt that we are discussing its flaws.
>>13685872
I mean, there's inexperience and then there's just being an asshole. There's no reason for Haruto to hide the Phantom ship from Shoko even if he doesn't want to tell her what's inside it or what it does. The only reason he does it is the same reason he doesn't feed on people even when it's clear he has to: Haruto's actions after the first episode are driven primarily by a desire to punish himself for being a monster. "Monsters don't get to have feelings." This is a belief he immediately adopts and never overcomes. Some of the other characters make efforts with the whole kamitsuki angle, but Haruto never buys into it and even L-elf never attempts to make him see reason. While there's an argument for there being something poetic about the main character's destruction coming from their inability to ever grow past that kind of complex, to me the frustration wasn't worth the novelty.
>>13682436
Does anyone know if it was translated?
>>13686051
Don't forget he wants to shield others from his curse.
He wants to preserve the idea that nothing has changed and everything can return to those innocent days from before the war.
>>13686051
>There's no reason for Haruto to hide the Phantom ship from Shoko even if he doesn't want to tell her what's inside it or what it does.
Not wanting to spread panic is a good reason. Haruto never knew he already killed her father and, in his mind, Shoko's father might still be in Dorssia's hands, waiting for his turn to be used as Rune supply. Seeing that Module 77 is looking up to Shoko for guidance, making her distraught is a big no-no. Plus, there's also his false assumption that Shoko would understand just like when he prevented Satomi from taking the other Valvraves.
>the same reason he doesn't feed on people even when it's clear he has to
He stopped feeding between S1 and S2 is because of his recent berserk attack which lead to raping of Saki. And during those times, he wanted to ascertain first what this so-called "hunger" is thus leading him to subject to experiments. When L-elf accepts to be his Rune-nip, no complaints from Haruto were heard. He stopped feeding after Marie died and was told that he's close to that.
It's the "I'm hurting someone else" that makes the feeding or rather the whole Kamitsuki thing in Haruto's eyes a monster. He'd probably happily be sucking L-elf's Runes if he didn't know Rune drainage might result to death.
>>13685137
I don't think he's angsty, Haruto is better described as, I don't know, overly self-conscious? He took up a load he couldn't bear and refused to share the aforementioned load with others in name of keeping them safe? I guess you could call him overprotective to the detriment of everyone, himself in the first place. The "white lies" angle could really have been better implemented if Haruto finally put his trust in the others and came out clean about everything that's been happening and survived the last battle.
I liked this >>13683345 anon's suggestion, it's melodramatic to the max, but it doesn't sound too bad at all, really.
>>13686499
He put his trust in a small group of people, though only because that group was with him from the beginning learning about his vampire bullshit or had one way or another forcibly become part of that inner circle of forbidden knowledge vampire bullshit.
And if I recall right L-Elf also kinda browbeat him into following a need-to-know strategy for information compartmentalization and the focus of Haruto's trust and faith is L-Elf, so...
Really though, he would've come clean after him and L-Elf aired their grievances on the moon and formed team tomodachi if not for the whole "welp I'm dying, time to leave my mark on history one way or another" problem.
It's rather tragic, he's a victim of a vicious feedback loop wherein his actions fuel the justifications for his actions, and it's only when he faces the fact that he's on borrowed time does he look past the need to hide his secret in favor of delivering a tremendous fuck you to the Council of 101 for their dickery.
>>13686524
Also funny enough the feedback loop applies to the Magius as well. It's quite clear Haruto and the Council of 101 are meant to parallel one another, but where the Magius retreated into the shadows after too many negative experiences interacting with humanity, Haruto stuck through it even when things didn't look like they could ever improve.
With that in mind, the theme is more appropriately pitched as follows:
The truth may hurt, but lies hurt more. Merely understanding the nature of one another will not erase animosity or prejudices held (especially those born from the discovery of lies), but hopefully through positive interaction trust can be built between parties, and through trust and cooperation (and sharing some of the hardships along the way) can we learn to live with one another, and perhaps be able to call one another "friend."
In short: DON'T BE A LYING LIAR WHO LIES.
>>13684698
>10. Give Raizo's bike more screen time
We know it's you, Duel. Don't you have some magic girl anime to slam or something?
>>13681952
More Saki ofc
>>13686601
Well I am ripping into Video Girl Ai at the moment- I mean who it that? Some sort of car engine?
>>13681952
Make characters few years older, remove vampire crap for more space nazis, give proper endong, hire a competent space engineer who knows how space cooling systems work.
I'm probably the only one here, but having L-Elf's buddies in on the whole defection thing would've been nice.
He might be the "One Man Army", but he had comrades. I would have loved to see him handle things on one end with A-Drei, Q-Vier, H-Nien and X-Eins keeping an eye on things on the other; the supposed betrayal just a front to cover what they're really planning.
>>13686124
No one really was interested.
All we got were summaries, but those were scattered across the VVV threads on /m/ and /a/.
Good luck finding them; the archive for some /m/ posts now go back as far as 2011, just with no images, so the importing of the old moe archives seems to be progressing well.
