Why is gundam origins so bad....
Was the manga like this?
Filled with body humour/slapstick?
>>13576431
But it's good. Don't be such an edgy no-fun faggot.
Gundam was always like that
>>13576431
>Filled with body humour/slapstick?
have you even watched MSG .. or Anime for that matter ?
>>13576552
I watched the compilation movies of Mobile Suit Gundam
Is the series filled with body humour/slapstick?
Because the movies were emotional and really dramatic
....
like unicron which I loved
>>13576566
>Is the series filled with body humour/slapstick?
you should watch ZZ Gundam , no slapstick shenanigans in that one
>>13576566
You had me for moment there, then the unicorn comment made the bait too obvious. gg 7/10
/m/ - memes
Fun challenge: Find out what the fucking point of introducing this character was.
>>13576577
unicorn was good
I don't get the hate on /m/
>>13576599
Easy. She existence proves Char is a bastard.
>>13576599
overbearing Japanese mother that disapproves of her son's wife
why they changed her character into Deikuns former lover for the anime know fucking clue
>>13576599
Engels to Deikun's Marx.
>>13576637
So how different is the Manga? Is Kycillia still a 100% evil stone cold bitch who kills her brother for being slapped in the manga?
>>13576650
yes , that would never change
>>13576650
Also why was there a nude scene of her?
It was so unexpected and random
And what kinda woman sleeps totally naked
>>13576566
>Unicron
Don't worry he loves you too.
>>13576657
UC series typically has your nude / shower scenes
>>13576637
That is Zeon's wife not his mother.
>>13576860
I guessing he's saying she was his mother in the manga and they changed it to his wife in the anime
>>13576431
dude, FORBES liked orgins, it literally CANT be bad
>>13576872
She is Zeon's wife in the manga too.
>>13576872
But that's wrong? It's not his mom in the manga either. There are no changes, the anime is essentially like watching the manga in action.
>>13576886
>>13576892
I don't mang
I didn't read the manga
I have no idea what he's saying either or why he will lie like that
>>13576431
should I watch the compilation movies to get into this and Unicorn or watch all the UC series with the tv episodes
Unicorn fucking sucked. It sapped out all the life out of Gundam for boring melodramatic bullshit about nothing.
Origins' tone is actually faithful to the original. It's a lot of fun to watch.
>>13576912
I watched all the compilation movies for Gundam and Zeta then watched unicorn and lastly origin and had no problems understanding. But a lot of the people on /m/ recommend you to watch the series and also the movies and I can see why because the story is pretty good.
also don't watch ZZ
People are lying when they tell you to watch it
>>13576919
I almost cried during watching unicorn
I felt nothing at the end of char's counterattack and felt rushed as fuck.
>>13576926
>I almost cried during watching unicorn
lol faggot
>>13576921
>Watch ANT instead of series
>Don't watch ZZ
I can at least understand where you're coming from with that second one, but what the fuck anon.
>>13576921
>watching comps
>skipping ZZ
>skipping any UC
There's the problem with fags like you.
Why get into Gundam at all if you're only going to watch a summary of the shows?
This is /m/, not /a/. Get the fuck out.
>>13576930
Better ending :^) superior animation
>>13576934
>>13576930
>putting up with Tomino's directing for three whole series just to be cultured enough to enjoy the better UC shows starting with Char's Counterattack
I get where you guys are coming from though
>>13576934
I'm not going to waste 30 hours of my life for filler episodes of amuro or kamille crying like a bitch to pilot a robot.
Also the compilation movies for Gundam cut out all the mobile armour crap that cheapened the series
>>13576936
>superior animation
Sure but
>flips back and forth between 1983 and 2005 animation making most scenes extremely jarring
Also if he said that he wants to get into Unicorn, why would you tell him to skip ZZ and take the retcon trilogy?
I know for 100% I'm in a shitpost thread but I can't stop responding,
>>13576940
I'll never understand why people get so upset over the fact that ZZ isn't canon. It's not like you're banned from watching the show just because it's no longer part of the main timeline.
>>13576952
Seeing the older animation allows you to better appreciate how far things have come when they switch to the newer scenes.
>>13576952
All you need to know from ZZ is puru puru was a happy puru before her puruing ended one day and was cloned
Other than that there isn't a lot of ZZ references other than the mobile suits
>>13576943
>>13576940
0079 Gundam movies are fine but ANT is rushed to fuck in its pacing. The character development is erratic as fuck and a lot of neat stuff gets skipped.
Is this where the latest "Zeta has shitty characters" meme came from? Did all you faggots just watch ANT and thought that the slightly better animated clusterfuck was enough?
>>13576966
>there isn't a lot of ZZ references other than the mobile suitsBut those are the only ones that matter
>>13576657
>And what kinda woman sleeps totally naked
Plenty, actually. It's pretty common, especially with single women.
>>13576943
>I'm not going to waste 30 hours
That's the flimsiest excuse ever.
Then why waste your time at all?
You're just a giant vagina who's afraid of his own hobbies. At least when I watch giant robot cartoons for children, I don't chicken out like a babby.
>>13576906
>I have no idea what he's saying either or why he will lie like that
UC fags are autistic like that.
>>13576624
>>>/a/
It's because it feels like it was written by the worst of /m/
>Ple clone survivor
>music that appeals to the Michael Bay crowd
>Newtype faggotry
>Banshee looks like irredeemable shit, same for FA RX-0
>OC Donut Steal: yet another secret suit story
>And, while I did skip ZZ, Char is out of character
>>13576952
>I know for 100% I'm in a shitpost thread but I can't stop responding,
Can I save this line for future use? It describes /m/ perfectly.
>>13576431
have something to make it better anon. Don't know what it's exactly to yet. Is the video a teaser for a video game, part of Mobile Suit Gundan: The Origin 3 OAV, or an upcoming video not part of the Char Aznoble OAVs?
So far, no one knows!
>>13577087
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fx8wjIQLvNo
>>13576943
>I'm not going to waste 30 hours of my life for filler episodes
>claiming to know the value of the series episodes
>without having seen them
You really shouldn't trust what /m/ tells you, anon.
>all the mobile armour crap
There were only three in MSG. This "mobile armor of the week" meme is a lie.
Bigro, Grabro, and Elmeth.
>>13577182
What about Adzam, Big Zam, Braw Bro, and Zakrello?
>>13576431
Is that Unicorn trash the only Gundam you ever watched?
>>13576926
>I almost cried during watching unicorn
>you'll never get back the 8 hours of your life you wasted watching Unicorn
I almost cried as well.
>>13576957
Except it is and plenty of stories in the universe reference it
Why is this the one weird thing you choose to shitpost about
>>13576892
Except the anime looks like ass.
>>13576657
>And what kinda woman sleeps totally nakedMe for one.
You should try it. It's comfy as all fuck and it's good for your body.
>>13577350
name a gundam series that looks good in comparison and I'll judge the fuck out of you for being a retard.
>>13576912
You shouldlearn punctuation.
>>13576921
>I watched all the compilation movies for Gundam and Zeta
>then watched unicorn
This is what you call an uneducated pleb.
>also don't watch ZZ
>missing Ple
This is what you call a gigantic faggot.
>>13576940
>literally skipping through gundam just to say you've seen it
Fuck off retard, if you don't like Gundam then why even bother watching it like there's cake at the end
>Filled with body humour/slapstick?
Yes,Yasu gonna Yasu
>>13576650
In the manga she's still Zeon ex-wife I don't know what that anon is talking about.
>>13576566
>I watched the compilation movies of Mobile Suit Gundam
stopped reading there
>>13577544
It's too cold here
>>13576940
Mh, never watched build fighters or Orphans, worth wihle experience?
Most disliked UC show for me?
There are non, they all have happy little Spacetrees.
No really, iam so happy that i cant recall every little detail from the UC so i can rewatch all of it after mostly 5 years. Victory is a bit painfull thought with all this youngster stuff.
At least until iam blind.
Why was she dressed like a witch? I could never fucking figure that out, it bothers me to no end.
>>13580734
Sayla is cute CUTE CUTE CUTE!!
>>13576957
The japanese don't give a rats ass about canon. Your effort is for nothing. Fuck off, tripfag.
![[HorribleSubs] Mobile Suit Gundam The Origin - 02 [720p].mkv_snapshot_25.45_[2015.12.03_02.10.46].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/YySuqEB.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Mobile Suit Gundam The Origin - 02 [720p].mkv_snapshot_25.45_[2015.12.03_02.10.46].jpg")
I can't hate it, not with all this Ramba Ral in it.
>>13580873
>ramba ral fighting the black tri-stars in mobile worker zaku prototypes
muh dick
>>13576957
Except ZZ IS cannon as confirmed by Tomino himself.
>>13582091
if zz wasnt cannon then hammon would be the antagonist of cca and it wouldnt even be called cca
>>13582094
Exactly. Also, ANT as well as all other compilaton movies are alternate timelines. The original television shows are the real canon. Besides, Tomino having a problem with Kamille getting mind raped by Scirroco, is silly considering by the end of ZZ, Kamille is perfectly fine and in excellent mental and physical health.
>>13582077
>>>/fanfiction.net/
>>13582127
the movies for 0079 are cannon tho cuz we see artesia when lalah gets murdered by that punk kid amuro in cca
>>13582145
give me points supporting zz not being cannon other than MUH NEW TRANSLATION
>>13582091
Tomino is a senile old man, anon.
>>13582149
Only anime is canon (not side material)
>>13582158
zz is canon and you cant fucking change that
>>13582163
i said only anime is canon, if ZZ is canon then so is G-saviour
>>13582169
>>13582174
>>13582163
>>13582169
>>13582158
His logic is full proof as to why ZZ is not canon and the butt blasting was just icing on the cake.
![cima2[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/rDXzESI.jpg "cima2[1].jpg")
Who has the most poorly handled backstory in all of Side 3 now?
Char
Deikun
Zabi family
Our Beloved Pirate Queen, Lady Cima Garahau.
>>13582558
Jamitov Hymen
>>13582158
>Only anime is canon
I just got the jokeIts not anime
>>13582558
Lalah Sune. Nobody can understand who she is: a prostitute or a gambler, earthnoid or spacenoid, Side 5 or Side 6, would she kek Char or keep Amuro friendzoned.
>>13576599
None. There was no point. Much like Origin itself, in fact.
Seriously, why retcon Daikun's wife into his lover, and introduce this character out of nowhere? It just makes things needlessly convoluted.
![[AnimeRG] Mobile Suit Gundam The Origin - 01 [ BD 1280x720 x264 AAC ] [Dual Audio] [ScavvyKiD]_Dec 3, 2015 2.34.03 PM.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Vb5G8VK.jpg "[AnimeRG] Mobile Suit Gundam The Origin - 01 [ BD 1280x720 x264 AAC ] [Dual Audio] [ScavvyKiD]_Dec 3, 2015 2.34.03 PM.jpg")
>>13582158
Even if this is a joke, this does have merit.
>Sunrise's 'policy' is that every that's animated is canon
>Animated means its anime
>ZZ is not anime
>Ergo ZZ is not animated
>By Sunrise's policy, ZZ is not canon because it's not animated.
>>13582094
>hammon would be the antagonist of cca and it wouldnt even be called cca
>Hamon survived the suicide attack by Ryu and laid low for for 14 years to plot her revenge on Amuro and the Federation.
I'd watch it.
>>13576566
>like unicron which I loved
Uh, Unicron is cool looking, but you'll have to be careful, I've heard he's a bit bitey.
>>13582592
I like Origin and ZZ andseveral other gundam television programs
>>13576475
I'm personally surprised by how much they're stretching out all this nothing. Like, they haven't even invented Mobile Suits yet.
I mean, I guess I don't really see the point of The Origin. I think the part in Episode 1 where Char was rampaging around in his Zaku was the high point of the OVAs.
>>13585108
The Origin doesn't do much for me either. If anything, I think it detracts from the original series.
>>13583197
Me too, in fact, I don't even want beat you senseless today!
>>13583272
Where do i get that gd shirt??
>>13585108
They aren't stretching out anything, this is an almost panel for panel adaptation of the manga. They haven't added anything that wasn't already in the comic.
>>13582783
>gambler
>lalah at the slot machines
>>13576957
> I'll never understand why people get so upset over the fact that ZZ isn't canon
They don't. They get upset at you for continually pushing the idea it is with no proof, basing it on your own conjecture and acting like that is solid proof. No-one would care if it wasn't canon, because it's still there to enjoy - just like the Gaia Gear threads that are cropping up now with it being translated aren't filled with people bitching about it's non-canon status: only folks enjoying it.
Canon isn't synonymous with timeline by the way. That might be the way it's most familiarly used in the West thanks to comics and properties like Star Wars, but it's not what it actually means. All canon is is a list of stuff that creators can reference when making a new entry.
There's absolutely no reason that two separate and contradictory entries like Zeta and A New Translation or A New Translation and ZZ cannot be canon as Sunrise has always maintained with the "anything animated is canon" rule of thumb. All it means is that any future UC entries can reference either of those works as it pleases, or both if it wants to. Nothing more. What non-canon status means is that a future work in that franchise cannot reference those works anymore. Works can, and do reference ZZ, such as Unicorn, because it's canon.
If you don't think it's canon though, find a statement from Sunrise saying it isn't. Hell, find one from Tomino. Because that's about the only real proof anyone will believe - since it's the only proof that counts for shit. Theorizing that a think isn't canon based off precedent doesn't actually mean it's true, because precedent isn't true across the board even in law.
>>13586296
"anything animated is canon"
they didn't say that, they said they anything animated is officially recognized. Canon is a purely western word.
>>13586303
Official as Sunrise use it is often taken to mean canon, at least in the West so I used that term. But yea, they've only ever said official since canon isn't really a concept in Japan and that was silly of me not to stipulate. They've never changed their mind on ZZ about that one and contradictory entries like ZZ and A New Translation can both be official for the same reasons as above.
>>13585108
I just want to see the Battle of Loum in all its glory as well as Revil making his escape and that "Zeon is exhausted!" Speech.
Does anyone else here want to see the other theaters of the OYW like the Dingo Team?
>>13576599
To show us why char is a pedo
With this running around its no wonder he's afraid of grown wemon
>>13586523
>Does anyone else here want to see the other theaters of the OYW like the Dingo Team?
I want to see more sides of the Gryps War or other conflicts, fuck the OYW. It's absolutely been exhausted and I, for one, don't give much of a shit about it anymore.
>>13586502
ZZ and ANT and Zeta TV as far as Sunrise is concerned all happened and they just hand wave any conflicts.
>>13586296
>Canon isn't synonymous with timeline by the way.
Yeah, this is one thing that for some reason, some anime fans just don't seem to get.
>>13583052
>Deikun's wife
Come to think of it, I don't even remember Astraia being mentioned much as either Deikun's wife or even being brought up in the original series at all. She just had one speechless cameo in that scene from one of the compilation movies and.. that's it. I could just be not remembering things however.
Why did the rest of Side 3 allow Deikun to have a long-term affair with another woman? Wouldn't that be a huge scandal? Why was his mistress' bastard son hailed as Zeon's "heir"? Why did the Zabis see said bastard son as such a threat to their rule that they sent assassins after him?
>>13587183
I think side 3 liked her
The mistress
>>13585271
I don't get it.
And there's more than slot machines - cards, dice, roulette.
>>13582596
Holy fuck you're right.
>>13586523
I want to see Gundam Unit-2 versus the first force Char sent in. Also, the unveiling of the GM.
>>13586538
Really? I mean, I likely have shit taste, but the OYW is the most interesting part of UC. It's basically the in-universe WWII equivalent, and there are countless stories to be told. Hell, Thunderbolt is almost entirely about one front in the OYW. (The second half is a postwar story.)
I do think that the number of Gundams running around is hurting things, though.
>>13587183
He divorced the first wife then remarried. Happens irl too
>>13587831
Maybe its the most interesting because its the only part of UC that actually gets touched on. Instead of writing and making new stories during Gryps or Late UC, we always return to OYW and as a result everything appears barren.
>>13587813
i wish ZZ actually had good artwork like that, or this picture from the laserdisk covers.
>>13587914
>>13587945
>derailing the thread with puru posting
puru puru senpai
>>13587949
>identifying a derail from a single post
Your clairvoyance powers are amazing, sempai.
Please tell me everything you can about the next few months in the stock market.
>>13585262
I don't think he was trying to imply they were stretching content from the manga.
OP made it sound like this was their first exposure to Origin, in fact.
It's more the fact that origin often elaborates on things that honestly didn't need to be elaborated on in detail.
>>13587183
She was probably like Evita
>>13576599
The point was to say "Hey, Daikun was a flawed and human character and the worship Char has for him is kinda misplaced".
>He left his to-be wife for a younger hotter girl
>He wanted to go to war with Earth
>He had crazy Spacenoid supremacist ideals
But he was a man, he had a good side to him and a bad side, she is a part of his not so bright side.
>>13589359
I thought it was mainly because Roselucia was unable to give him children, not simply because he wanted to trade up to a hotter wife.
>>13589430
>I thought it was mainly because Roselucia was unable to give him children
That could just be from her perspective doe.
>>13576431
>>13576566
Every Gundam directed by Tomino has that.
>>13589359
The thing is Char never really worshiped him. He definitely wanted to emulate his ideals during Zeta and Char's Counterattack, but he never hero worshiped him or seemed to have a misplaced image of his father in the normal run of things. More to the point though, Deikun is kind of a shitty change in my opinion because he goes through "flawed human bean" and clear out the other side straight in to "crazy pants shithead with no real redeeming features" - which kind of defeats the purpose. If they'd dropped the crazy and had him just be a guy who was reluctantly building to a war on Earth himself or something I think it'd be much more interesting because it preserves some viewer conflict over Zeon ideology. When even Deikun was just a paranoid nutjob who wanted to blow shit up though it removes a lot of that conflict because the cause is near impossible to sympathize with from the start. And Origin should be making the conflict more morally grey on more levels in my opinion, not more morally black and white.
>>13586296
>Tim B^Uckley wall of text
Obviously people care enough to use their own conjecture and place as fact, let alone all my evidence comes from the shows itself, yes there are minor plot holes in regard to some characters, however it stands up to major scrutiny. The anti camp's entire argument boils down the 'nu-huh!' and they then resort to logical fallices or just outright ignore the evidence presented.
I'm using what's animated and previous precedents, it's up to the antis to find contracting evidence there, not expect the burden of proof to fall on me again.
And if it didn't matter, you and everyone else wouldn't care. But the fact you do and push your own agenda is quite telling and shows how intellectually dishonest you are.
Find me something where Tomino says it is canon if you want to try and refute me.
>>13590293
> I'm using what's animated adn previous precedent
That's not actually proof though, which is why people get annoyed. It's just conjecture, no matter how much you want to act like it's more.
> it's up to the antis to find contradicting evidence there
Actually, no, it isn't. It's up to you to find some actual proof that what you're saying is true. If you want to claim something then the burden of proof is on you. And Sunrise has always said that anything animated is official while never saying ZZ isn't official while Tomino has never said a word either way (since it's not up to him) so the burden of proof is still on you.
> the fact you do and push your own agenda is quite telling
Everyone's agenda is, broadly speaking, to take the piss out of you because you have for years maintained a position despite a lack of evidence while acting smug and superior about how much evidence you have.
> show you intellectually dishonest you are
See what I mean?
> Find me something where Tomino says it is canon
No, you find me something where he says it isn't. You're making the claim, so it's up to you to present proof.
>>13590347
It is proof, and unless you can find something that contradicts it outside of minor plot holes, your can't just hand wave it all off as conjecture. It's like we're given a puzzles, only a few pieces are missing but it's pretty clear what the picture is. Also you just backed up my claim about intellectual dishonesty since people are only doing this out of spite while claiming its for other reasons. I wouldn't want to think this has to do with some irrational rage that's just directed at my being and ideas, but the more this goes on, the more it seems like that and people like you just want to be contrarians. My proof is ANT exists and syncs up with CCA almost perfectly. Balls in your court Mr. Contrarian.
>>13576431
>Filled with body humour/slapstick?
Found the newfag
>>13590465
>ANT syncs up perfectly
Haman is literally nonexistent, that is far from a minor plot hole.
Nu is built as the average appearance of all Gundams, if ZZ wasn't canon then Nu would look different.
I still see no proof of anything official stating ZZ isn't canon and yet
>It is proof
We had ZZ suits by the dozen in Unicorn and even a Capule in the museum in G-Reco (no it wasn't the one from Turn A, someone noted a difference in the crotch piece thing it has, I think ZZ and statue had beam cannons while Kapool doesn't).
>My proof is opinions opinions opinions
So you are correct for having an opinion that nearly nobody else on this board does (or anyone who has watched UC, for that matter) and we're contrarians for having different opinions?
Black Knight, I don't even know why I waste time to respond to you when you clearly and successfully troll /m/ by bringing up this stupid topic all the time. I just wish you had some proof for me to argue against to make this back-and-forth fun. Otherwise it devolves into nonstop derailing until the heat death of the universe caused by /m/'s burning bottompain. I know that's your goal but please give me a reason to throw more fuel into your fire.
>>13586538
>I want to see more sides of the Gryps War or other conflicts
I want more Karaba-related material. So much of the Gryps-era material is Titans- or AEUG-focused, but I want some stories of Hayato and Amuro's adventures on the Audhumla, or of Kai's journalism journeys/espionage escapades.
>>13590568
Haman leaves the Earth Sphere and that's that. If Haman stuck around, then there'd be a major issue. But she didn't. This is the first I heard of the Nu gundam, and even then it's negligible unless you can point out where in the movie it's shown to take parts from the ZZ Gundam. You again fail to take into account the anything that directly references ZZ is part of the non-canon timeline. So that means Unicorn is part of that timeline. As for G-Reco, The Kapool has been depicted with and without the crotch holes in media. also the chest holes match those of the Kapool and Capule. So it has attributes of both suits if we go directly from the line art. And yes, your proof is opinions. All my proof is well thought out and a rational human being who's mind is not clouded by being a contrarian or malice can easily see the merit in it. Now you obviously choose the contrarian route, so no matter what I say or even if Tomino came out and said ZZ isn't canon, you wouldn't stop. It's rather petty. Actually it sums up the Pro-federation rhetoric on /m/ perfectly, people don't like the Federation, they just hate Zeon so they're forced to support the Federation. It's just sad.
>>13590734
>Actually it sums up the Pro-federation rhetoric on /m/ perfectly, people don't like the Federation, they just hate Zeon so they're forced to support the Federation. It's just sad.
Sad, much like how you think this is real and has gravity and historic importance attached to it.
>>13590745
Principles are not something you should shirk regardless of the situation.
Although now that you're invoking 'It's fiction' shows you're at the end of your rope in this debate.
>>13590782
>Although now that you're invoking 'It's fiction' shows you're at the end of your rope in this debate.
Motherfucker, that was my first response to you, and this is my second because I'm genuinely amazed at how detached from reality you must be to take this all deadly serious.
>>13576968
That would actually make allot of sense.
>>13590803
Well you clearly didn't give off that vibe with how much effort you were putting into this. I'm flattered you're this interested in me and my views, but there is no reason to get upset like you are. I just have convictions and I remain consistent with them across all fields, in the real world and fictional ones.
Can you say the same thing?
>>13590826
>I just have convictions and I remain consistent with them across all fields, in the real world and fictional ones.
You sure do, to the point of excess.
It's just a show, you know.
>>13590465
> It is proof.
No, it isn't. You asked why people didn't accept it and I've provided what I think is the answer. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it isn't so. No, I'm not saying it's direct proof, but it's a pretty good conjecture in my opinion and I don't see anyone debating it beyond you.
> You can't just hand wave it all off as conjecture.
> conjecture: conclusion based on incomplete data
> direct quote from Black_Knight: only a few pieces are missing
Hence: conjecture. Just because you think those missing pieces are unimportant and that the picture is clear doesn't mean anything.
What you are essentially saying is: "I don't have to provide proof because I say so, but you do if you want to refute me. No, you can't provide conjecture you need to provide proof unlike me who can make do with conjecture".
Which is a double standard, and frankly, a good case of that phrase you like to throw around so much: intellectual dishonesty. You can indulge in that if you want to mind, just try not to throw the phrase at other people so much if you're going.
> people are only doing this out of spite while claiming it's for other reasons
That's not what intellectual dishonesty means for the record. Intellectual dishonesty is holding others to standards of rational argument that you don't apply to yourself.
> people like you just want to be contrarians
That's not what contrarian means either. I cannot be the contrarian in this argument because I'm arguing for the popular opinion. It might not be the correct one (it is, but for the sake of argument let's so the debate is open on that) but it is the popular one, both here and in general, and a contrarian is someone arguing against the popular opinion, not the correct one. If anyone is the contrarian here, it's you, because you're arguing an unpopular opinion. I'm not saying you are being contrarian, but you're the only one who could be.
there's nothing officially written ever saying the movies are canon
>>13590734
No see if Tomino said that that'd be lovely but he wouldn't because he doesn't care that much about "canon"
Nobody remotely normal actually does
>>13590870
> My proof is ANT exists and syncs up with CCA almost perfectly
Almost doesn't mean anything though. Not to mention that Zeta and ZZ also link up perfectly with Char's Counterattack - because they were made to link up with each other. Since both can link to Char's Counterattack both can be official. And are by Sunrise's rule of thumb that anything animated is official.
> Balls in your count Mr. Contrarian
I'd just like to point out that you ignored several points of my earlier post (>>13586296) while labeling it with an indirect insult. Cherry picking responses and insulting someone is the kind of thing you often accuse others of doing, so it's disappointing that you'd resort to them yourself.
As is though, why don't you address the fact that as well as using faulty definitions of proof, intellectual dishonesty and contrarian you have been applying a fault definition of canon (or official in Japan) that ignores the fact that canon/official can and does include multiple timelines? I'd also like to know why if ZZ (and Unicorn and so on) are not actually canon/official no-one from Sunrise has ever said anything, including Tomino? That kind of thing is usually confirmed somewhere. I mean, if they've made that decision then they usually want to make people aware of it in a way they cannot be mistaken about. And yet, nothing from Sunrise. Why do you get to supply incomplete proof while other people have to provide word of God on the matter?
>>13590734
>Haman leaves the Earth Sphere and that's that
Not that anon, but that's a completely bullshit handwave. Why spend months, even years, building up a forces, moving Axis from the asteroid belt past Mars into the Earth Sphere, and engaging enemy forces just to leave when the Titans are annihilated and the AEUG's exhausted? Haman's Neo Zeon's goal was to control the Earth Sphere via Mineva/the Zabi bloodline, and people are expected for her to bail out after most of her opposition has killed each other? I'm not a fan of how she's written in ZZ, but this is fucking worse.
>>13590870
Another problem you have is you take a single word and run in a mile, the pieces missing are irrelevant to the main story which is 'What happened to Haman?', outside of her leaving the Earth Sphere her final whereabouts are unknown. Even then there are no contradictions between ANT and CCA. Perhaps I misspoke and should have worded it better, but my point still remain. The fact you demand burden of proof while not backing up your own claims is evidence enough. Which is why you wrote 'Everyone's agenda is, broadly speaking, to take the piss out of you', at best it's contrarian because you claim to speak for the majority of posters here, at worst, it's shows astounding arrogance that you have this belief that you know what everyone on the board is thinking. ZZ existence is to clean up the loose ends of Zeta, and set up CCA's (at least the latter half when the movie was green light.) ANT comes along and just cuts out the middle man, this is not hard to understand. I've already gone through the whole 'everything animated is canon' If you want to go down that logical rabbit hole, remember that ZZ labels itself as not anime. Anime is the Japanese word for animation, which means ZZ is not animation and thus, not canon. So following that simple logic, Sunrise didn't consider ZZ canon to begin with but it was kept because there was nothing to bridge the gap between Z and CCAs, ANT comes along and fixes that. I mean you can cling to minor misspeaks all you want. The fact of the matter is ANT does a much more efficient job of linking Zeta and CCA than ZZ. And the big thing always is, if ZZ was important, why didn't they reference it in CCA? When my core agreement is sound and you can only quibble over minor details, I'm not seeing how anything changes.
>>13590908
If you watch the end credits, a majority of her fleet was wiped out so in ANT she just didn't have the man power to go forward with the attack like in the TV series timeline.
>>13590928
>Anime is the Japanese word for animation, which means ZZ is not animation and thus, not canon. So following that simple logic, Sunrise didn't consider ZZ canon to begin with but it was kept because there was nothing to bridge the gap between Z and CCA
I have seen so many dumb things said on this board.
The fact that you mean this with the utmost sincerity makes it take that dumbness cake.
>>13590939
And yet you can't refute it.
>>13590951
What's there to refute? You taking song lyrics too seriously like you do everything else?
>>13590939
>>13591004
As someone who has dealt with a similar autist on /a/'s yuri threads, honestly, just drop it. Let it go. People like him will never accept that he's wrong. He can't be reasoned with.
>>13591104
If there's solid and irrefutable evidence given, I'd conceded. However none of the opposition have presented something of that level.
>>13591004
>Theme song written by Tomino himself
>'Nah, not important, just ignore them'
Nice try blanko nimo.
Wait, is this guy actually arguing that Anime Ja Nai is a serious statement declaring that ZZ is actually not an anime?
What the flying fuck.
It's essentially saying every time a character in anything fictional says "This isn't a movie/cartoon/book/game/whatever, it's reality!" said work automatically stops being fictional.
>>13591399
Just ignore him and move on. He's been adamantly denying any challenging views for ages and isn't stopping any time soon. The best way to deal with it is simply to stop people from engaging him.
>>13591399
I'm only using the absurd logic placed out that everything animated is canon against those who sing it as gospel.
And my evidence comes from the show itself.
Rewatching Zeta, I found it great how the 1st OP pretty accurately describes what Kamille was feeling/going through during ZZ after being mindraped by Scirocco. It's especially great how Tomino wrote the lyrics.Better Days are Coming is pretty good, too.
>>13587914
>i wish ZZ actually had good artwork like that, or this picture from the laserdisk covers.
I wish that too. There's a surprising amount of really good artwork for ZZ, a lot of which seems to show things being much darker and Zeta-ey.
Will Kitazume ever take his edge train to the ZZ era? Because I kind of want that.
>>13591432
It's a fucking song. Not every OP, especially ones written by Tomino, are to be taken seriously or applied literally to the anime itself.
If you can't see that maybe that line might be from the perspective of a character in-show that 's slightly 4th wall breaking...you're autistic. Fucking mouth breather.
>>13577071
>>>>/a/
I honestly like banshee's design though, the horn and its color is unique
>>13590928
> the pieces missing are irrelevant to the main story which is 'What happened to Haman?', outside of her leaving the Earth Sphere her final whereabouts are unknown
So a major character just up and disappears without really doing anything and you consider that irrelevant and good story-telling? Okay. Well, I'm not going to argue the point because it's really not relevant. If you think that's all that's missing from your "proof" then that's fine. It's still not actually proof though.
As an example: Sunrise and Bandai no longer consider G-Savior official by all accounts. While it was originally listed on their site for several years after release it was taken down in 2003 and hasn't been listed on their site or in official materials since. The only appearance it's made in that time was as a small cameo in Build Fighters. Nothing ties to it within the Universal Century (or any of the following eras) and it ties to nothing but itself. That's a good case that G-Savior is no longer considered official.
On the other hand, ZZ is still regularly talked about on the official Gundam site in articles, it's always included in art books and data books regarding the Universal Century, Bandai included it in the All Gundam project and even secondary sources like Mark Simmons (who has worked for Sunrise directly and is about the most knowledgable Gundam fan in the West) list it as still official. In fact, his exact words on the matter roughly 16 months ago were: http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16130
> nobody seriously seems to think that the Zeta Gundam "New Translation" movies are in any danger of overriding the Zeta TV series
He also still lists all ZZ suits in the list of official suits for the Universal Century he keeps up to date at http://www.ultimatemark.com/gundam/mscatalog.html
>>13595702
Mark Simmons might not work directly for Sunrise all the time, but he's about as good a source as there is in the West on the matter. Put together with the fact that Sunrise and Bandai still mention it all the time and it's a good bet that ZZ is still considered official by them.
So the only source left that might not consider it official is Tomino. Who I'm not actually sure matters. Tomino is almost certainly never going to do anything in the Universal Century again, and Unicorn has shown that Sunrise and Bandai intend to include ZZ within their own version of canon. So if Tomino is never going to do anything in UC again and both Z/ZZ and A New Translation can lead to Char's Counterattack what does it matter which one he considers canon compared to which one Sunrise and Bandai consider canon?
> The fact you demand burden of proof while not back up your own claims is evidence enough
I'm not making a claim though, you are. You're claiming that ZZ is no longer official so it's up to you to provide actual, tangible proof. Not precedent or conjecture: proof. I, and basically everyone else, are only arguing for the status quo that has been in place since ZZ aired (so roughly 30 years), which isn't making a claim and thus doesn't necessitate the burden of proof. You however are saying that despite Bandai and Sunrise still supporting ZZ and Tomino never saying anything on the matter that ZZ is no longer supposed to be considered canon (or official really), therefor the burden of proof is on you. And you've yet to provide anything really supporting the idea after several years.
> at best it's contrarian because you claim to speak for the majority of posters here
I really think you should stop using words you don't understand. This is like speaking to Clawshrimpy.
>>13595704
> at worst, it shows astounding arrogance that you have this belief that you know what everyone on the board is thinking
I don't claim to, only to report to you what I see in threads. I very possibly am wrong, but that's my opinion on things. Here's the important part, I'm willing to admit I'm wrong on that and will happily apologize if anyone wants. You however are so convinced you are right that you refuse to even consider you might be wrong by the looks of things. Which is far more arrogant.
> ANT comes along and just cuts out the middle man, this is not hard to understand
It's also not necessary. Just because ZZ is a middle man and technically speaking unnecessary for Char's Counterattack doesn't mean it's going to be abandoned because it's still a product on it's own terms as well as part of a greater story. And that's all the justification needed to keep it. Especially when it actually deals with some of the loose ends in question, like Haman where A New Translation just leaves it hanging and asks you to pretend it's no longer there.
> I've already gone through the whole "everything animated is canon"
In the past perhaps, not here that I recall though. You've also yet to address that canon doesn't and never has meant timeline and that there's no reason that two timelines can't both be canon.
> Anime is the Japanese word for animation, which means ZZ is not animation and thus, not canon
This is possibly the most juvenile attempt at deflecting an argument I've ever seen and your words suggest you know it.
> If ZZ was important, why didn't they reference it in CCA?
Why would they need to? Outside of Char himself and some minor mobile suit nods (and the GM III is a minor suit nod from ZZ that's in the film too) there's nothing of Zeta in Char's Counterattack either - because it's not a movie about Zeta or ZZ, it's a movie about Amuro and Char and nothing more. Including anything else is simply taking away from their story.
>>13595709
Char's Counterattack also isn't some kind of UC scoreboard. It's the culmination of Amuro and Char's story, but it's a yardstick for UC in general. Something not being included in it doesn't immediately render it moot because UC is about more than Char's Counterattack and individual entries outside of it are justified on their own. They don't need to be included to matter.
So I guess what I'm saying in a lot of words is, the burden of proof is on you and you've yet to really provide anything of value in that regard. You can ignore literally the entire effort-post I just made and focus on these last sentences if you want, because they're all that's important. You're making a claim that runs contrary to the official word on matters so you need to provide some kind of solid proof to back up your claim. You don't seem interested in doing so, or even in acknowledging that, but I'm going to make the effort and ask for it regardless. I fully expect you to do nothing but mock me and claim that I'm being intellectually dishonest in some manner, but I'm hoping you'll prove me wrong.
>>13576431
The humor makes it feel like a Ghibli movie, which I kind of like.
Makes a real jarring feel when violence invades the scenes.
>>13595704
>Mark Simmons might not work directly for Sunrise all the time
But he does. Every animated Gundam work release in the last 8 years released on BD internationally has his name in the credits.
