Legitimate question, why should I give a damn about anything that happens in UC Gundam if nothing ever gets better until G-Reco thousands of years later and every sequal undermines the sacrifices of the cast of the previous series?
I don't care how "unrealistic" the endings of Wing: Endless Waltz ad 00: Awaking of the Trailblazer are, they gave meaningful closure to protagonists struggles and give you hope for the future of humanity. UC just gives you despair at the end most of the time.
Why should you give a damn about anything that happens in real life if nothing ever gets better and every conflict undermines the sacrifices of those who were involved in the previous one?
Why should you give a damn about reality if nothing ever improves after thousands of years? That's basically what Tomino is shooting for. Individual lives may improve but war is a constant. He doesn't really do a great job of it though since he often doesn't give much of a sense of closure and past Char's Counterattack the series are spread out enough chronologically that they start to feel disconnected, giving little sense of social change. Not helped that after Victory he started using social regression as a plot point.
>>13576097
>the real world isn't a somewhat better place now in 2015 then it was in 1915 or 1815.
>>13576068
MSG was about a bunch of conscripts surviving the war. Any references to hope or the future of humanity were just on the side. Zeta was mostly about overthrowing an even more comically evil faction than Zeon.
Basically every UC Gundam series only features the hope and future humanity as a sideshow up until CCA, and then some dipshits went and made Unicorn. Aside from that, what you're describing is a problem you made up all on your own.
>>13576068
Because by and large it does improve after roughly ZZ for quite a while. CCA and F91, while they could have potentially killed everyone on earth, weren't major conflicts for most people.
This is ignoring Unicorn, of course.
>>13576109
THE MORE THINGS CHANGE
THE MORE THEY STAY THE SAME
>>13576126
>Zeta was mostly about overthrowing an even more comically evil faction than Zeon.
>SOULS HELD DOWN BY GRAVITY TALK EVERY EPISODE.
>>13576068
the better question is why should you care about anything in a cartoon at all
>>13576143
>SOULS HELD DOWN BY GRAVITY TALK EVERY EPISODE.
And yet at the end of the show the only real achievement is the destruction of the Titans and Space Hefner.
Philosophy in Gundam always takes a back seat to the plot, and in UC the plot is pretty much exclusively about rebellions against the imperialist Earth Federation. The Earth Federation pretty much always wins, and they don't give a flying fuck about philosophy or human evolution. It's not until CCA that anybody actually puts some bite behind their philosophical bite, and Amuro just puts Char in the well with Timmy.
>>13576068
Because it's about the ride not the destination.
>>13576189
>Philosophy in Gundam always takes a back seat to the plot
>Wing with everything Trieze and Relena say.
>X and Turn-A's theme of not to keep repeating the same mistakes of the past
> SEED: Kira and friends' hope for a better tomorrow vs Rau's "nothing is ever going to change or get better so we as just destroy ourselves and get it over with" nihilism
>the entire conflict in 00 being about the philsophy of making a better future.
>Everything in Unicorn.
>>13576259
If the plot is inherently philosophical then that would make them the same thing, would it not? How does the plot take a back seat to itself?
Even still, SEED and 00 are the only real examples where the resident moral crusaders gave the plot the finger and made it all about them, and in both cases the people who did so were basically literal gods. Otherwise, the rest of those examples revolved around stopping general villainy of the highest order.
It's Gundam. No matter which universe, war always sucks and appears pointless.
>>13576068
Why would you care about Wing: Endless Waltz if they eventually die off by Turn A?
>>13576068
It's a depressing universe. You should have figured that out by Zeta.
>>13576068
Gundam is a series of endless war. What importance do the meanings of any of the characters struggles have any more when ban rise keeps releasing series again and again with the same tragedies happening over and over. That's what turn a was saying and it was supposed to be an end to the cycle. I suppose with greco tomino is accepting that war is inevitable and is attempting to address naive attitudes towards it from people who have only experienced peace (in Japan atleast)
>>13576097
We are currently living in the most peaceful period in human history. The death rate is 1/400 of what it was only a year ago.
>>13576550
>1/400 of what it was only a year ago
Surely you meant a longer period of time than just one year.
>>13576068
You should watch Dunbine then as that show killed everyone off.
Time to bring out that copy pasta about how Unicorn diverges the UCverse and connects it to G Gundam...
>>13576068
Um 00 ended more or less the same way as most UC entries: with ONE conflict being resolved (not all), and unless I'm mistaken there's another war that happened right after the movie.
>>13576068
OP....
Live
reminder that tomino is a hack
>nothing ever gets better
>every generation undermines the sacrifices of the previous series
>mankind is unable to turn its back on war
Welcome to real life, kid. In the words of the great Schmendrik:
"There are no happy endings, because nothing ends"
>>13576854
According to some side story manga there was a war after Setsuna left at the end but before he came back to old-woman-Marina. Also everyone on earth eventually evolves into an innovator.
But...y'know...
>side manga
>canon
>>13577154
00 mangas are more canon than usual.
>>13576126
> and then some dipshits went and made Unicorn
I would say that 0079 has quite a hopeful tone overall, especially it's ending and that people being able to move forward despite life being shitty is basically one of the show's themes. In fact, I'd say that's true of UC as a whole. Even if you want to ascribe hopefulness only to Char's Counterattack though, Turn-A and G-Reco both take place in the same continuity and are very positive and hopeful shows so that what you're saying is basically: it's fine when Tomino does it but fuck anyone else who does it.
Which is especially funny given that Tomino himself has no problem with it, even the ending. Which there's no real reason for him to have a problem with it, since it continued the same trends he himself started, including newtype ghosts, miracles and so on.
>>13577405
>I would say that 0079 has quite a hopeful tone overall.
>I'd say that's true of UC as a whole.
There was nothing hopeful about MSG. The first half of the show is spent on Bright slapping around a bunch of people younger than him to get them to get over their PTSD and fight Zeon. The latter half is spent with them being conscripted and forced to act as bait for Kycilia's troops and their special projects.
Just because they're trying to be a bit upbeat about it doesn't mean they're hopeful. Pretty sure the majority of the crew expected to die in that war, and a couple of them did to really drive that point home.
Zeta was no different, except their villains were even more villainous. Probably the one big contribution to the morale was the fact that their cause was just. They weren't just trying to survive like the White Base crew.
>>13576068
>gives you despair at the end most of the time
Art imitates life, yo
Also, G-Reco wasn't that good
>>13576068
>stories don't mean anything unless the heroes kill all the bad guys forever and nobody ever fights again and there is peace across the galaxy for all eternity
Are you 12?
>>13577724
"There always has to be a happy ending" really isn't any different than "no one can ever be happy because war never changes and Victory/Turn-A need to happen."
Seriously, how many Zeon revivals have there been now?
>>13577424
But everyone on the White Base made it through the war.
>>13577747
Wait, are you trying to imply that Turn-A is a dark series about how war never changes?
>>13577769
No, just that UC ends with everyone getting sent back to the stone age by nanomachines.
>>13577770
Oh, okay. That's fair. It was worse though. G-Reco says UC ended in basically continuous war that depleted all of Earth's resources and left people so fucked cannibalism became an institution. The nanomachines came later.
>>13577747
>Seriously, how many Zeon revivals have there been now?
As many as necessary because Japan loves fascist soldiers dying honorably for lost causes.
>>13576068
Because you should grow up and learn to appreciate story formats beyond good guys winning over bad guys. If knowing that there isn't a happy ending where the good guys win is enough for you to write off a story you have a child's taste in narratives.
>>13578651
>saying this when there are lots of childrens stories that have sad endings where the good guys don't win
This guy
>>13576300
Just like the real world.
At least soldiers who got their legs blown off in Iraq get a handicapped parking space at Walmart.
#supportourtroops
>nothing gets better until g-reco
>implying bellri didnt come back from his journey and instantly became a dictator
>>13577405
Tomino had no problem with any Gundam show not made by him. So what's your point?
>>13576099
> Why should you give a damn about reality if nothing ever improves after thousands of years? That's basically what Tomino is shooting for.
Well, in that case he is objectively wrong. Humanity is overall less violent, better educated, and has better health now that it has ever had before in human history.
The world isn't a utopia. There are still wars, there are still people living in poverty with no access to food, medicine or education. But those people are an ever smaller portion of the global population, whereas even a few hundred years ago they would have been the majority of humanity.
Its not even likely that any of the major powers will go to war with each other at any point in the near future, not just because of the military disincentives but because our economies are so linked that its basically impossible to attack anyone that matters without shooting ourselves in the foot. Shit, not long ago a housing market collapse in America put the entire globe into a financial crises, the effects of which are still evident in Europe even now. Imagine how much worse that would be if two major economies were SHOOTING at each other. There isn't any resource currently on the planet worth the fallout.
>>13578733
>Tomino had no problem with any Gundam show not made by him.
>>13576068
UC > AU
This shouldn't surprise you.
That being said I enjoy all the Gundams for different reasons. I suspect anons who start threads like this simply haven't seen much /m/ material.
