>has a group of people that genuinely care for him and a comfortable, if impoverished lifestyle
>throws it all away for revenge over some dumb bitch and a falling-out with some edgelord
>>13570528
Debatable. Fae is infamously disloyal. Jet was definitely a friend or partner, Ed... Just kind of along for the ride. Ein may or may not have liked him very much.
And yes, it was really stupid, but it was also in their natures to do that. Vicious to suddenly but inevitably betray everyone involved, Spike, to answer that betrayal and the personal slight involved in Julia.
Cowboy Bebop is a show about his journey between being out, and having no choice but to get dragged in. He just couldn't stay away. What had meaning in his life, was the old neighborhood and the people he knew.
Everything else was a detour.
And going back killed him, but again, it was not in his nature to stay away.
>>13570929
I wouldn't mind so much if we got more than 5 minutes to get to know Julia and see why she's so worth getting hung up over. She wasn't even that hot when compared to Faye or even the big shot girl.
Wasn't Watanabe talking like a decade ago about a possible Bebop sequel or whatever, definitely in the realm of "eh, sure, some day, maybe"?
What would that even be about?
>>13571649
Faye and Jet catching crooks and sometimes having sex
>>13571649
Watanabe said that Spike probably lived through his encounter with Vicious, but his story is still over.
>>13571649
more adventures before the last few eps like the movie
I would have liked to see them do more movies like Lupin.
>>13571636
I found it more annoying that Julia didn't run away with Spike just because she was too afraid of Vicious.
>>13571788
Vicious had crazy mad space triad power.
And she was wet for space triad power so she'd overrate his already-impressive space triad power.
>>13571788
To be fair, being afraid of Vicious is a pretty valid reason to do shit. There are not many people who can get away with crossing Vicious. Lots of people barely survive knowing him at all.
>>13571692
with their ship powered on a tsun-tsunium drive, using the limitless reserves of how much it's not like they like each other or anything
>>13570528
Cowboy Bebop is a quest for meaning, every character can be broken down as such:
Jet is on a quest for justice
Faye is on a quest for her past
Ed was quite literally looking for a family, but also for information.
Jet and Vicious however is where it gets interesting, as vicious is quite the nihilist and spike is almost zen like in his raw existentialism. Vicious has only one goal, revenge against spike and, by extension the old bosses. Spike is somewhat unique in that what he truly desires under all his apparently casual approaches to danger, is something unattainable he wants Julia and by extension a life with julia. This can not exist so long as Viscous exists, and as we see from the show when spike tries to have her without dealing with Viscous she pays the price. In essence the easy going spike we see was essentially dead the whole series, and was simply waiting to "wale up"
>>13570528
This is not /m/.
>>13572647
>takes place in space
>on a ship
>with a huge focus on techporn, spaceships, transhumanism, and the blues
>one of the characters is a magical skeleton key that can access any set of data at will
>this is somehow not /m/
Going out like that was pretty badass though.
Some people just can't let go of the past...for better or worse.
THE REAAAL FOOOOLK BULUES
>>13571836
>Lots of people barely survive knowing him at all.
Which ultimately begs the question of why the triad kept this dipshit around. How many times can you openly betray a murderous criminal organization before they just go, "Nah, fuck it. Shoot that guy many times in the head." Vicious isn't invincible and no good reason is ever given why his bosses wouldn't or couldn't have killed him already.
>>13570929
>Debatable. Fae is infamously disloyal.
She seemed genuinely upset when Spike was leaving the Bebop
>>13575188
Presumably Vicious is so fucking good the bosses liked having him around as an enforcer and figured if he ever went too far he could be taken out. What I really don't get is how an absolute madman like Vicious had an army of loyal followers. He back stabs everyone and his name is Vicious!
>>13570528
Evangelion is the better monster of the week show. Though for bebop its more bounty of the week i guess.
>>13577636
Bebop and Eva are nowhere close to the same level of episodic. They are both monster of the week but Eva has 1 continuing story while Bebob's episodes barely relate to one another
>>13577599
That's because she wouldn't have him around to double cross anymore. I'm only half joking here. Her relationship with the other characters was basically her counting on them to bail her ass out when she made stupid and questionable decisions, and occasionally considering returning their kindness with her own rescue attempts of them in exchange for money or favor.
Not unlike Spike, she was a rather fucked up character. That was sort of the point though; that those characters were broken in their own special way.
This thread is one of those cases where people forget that fictional characters are supposed to be flawed and irrational, because humans are flawed and irrational. This is the expectation, and Bebop delivers on it.
>>13570929
>Ein may or may not have liked him very much.
I probably shouldn't have laughed at this as much as I did, but that was good shit.
>>13577649
You have a point there but I felt the characters weren't developed as much as they could be. That's what happens when you focus on self contained stories for most episodes.
>>13577656
Character development isn't always a necessity. In a story like Cowboy Bebop, I wouldn't really expect much development given the way the story is setup.
The characters of Cowboy Bebop didn't really need to go through some drastic changes. For two of them the mere fact that they were there at all was a major development for them. Overall, the importance lied in the expansion of their histories.
Cowboy Bebop is about the history of these characters, not their respective futures. There's a reason why each of them has an episode or two devoted to them reliving their past in one way or another, and trying to overcome it. The thing is, even though they overcame the issues that plagued them in the past it didn't change their futures. They were still a bunch of down-on-their-luck freelancers even if they conquered their demons.
Cowboy Bebop only covers a very small slice of the lives of these characters. Not even years. How much does the average adult really change their character in such a short amount of time, much less grizzled badasses?
>>13577656
They were developed enough though. You learned everyone's backstory almost fully besides Ed and Ein and who gives a shit about them really. The only truly undeveloped characters were Julia and Edgemaster, because they were more like representations of ideals.
>>13577656
>You have a point there but I felt the characters weren't developed as much as they could be.
>That's what happens when you focus on self contained stories for most episodes.
Nigga is you baka
Episodic series offer more character development by sheer vritue of the fact that they focus on characters instead of plot.
>>13572647
If it has any semblance of technology being used then it's an /m/ show accodring to people here.
>>13577717
Captain Harlock is /m/ because it's got spaceships. Cowboy Bebop has spaceships. It's /m/.
Space shit = /m/
>>13577717
>hurr durr what is LotGH
>>13577717
This, it's gotten out of hand. Next thing you know /m/ will reason a documentary about factory robots is /m/.
>>13577826
There are threads on /m/ about shitty movies like Automata. Documentary about factory robots would be just as /m/ if not more.
I kept thinking he was going to turn out to have been Julia all along until he died.
Wouldn't that have been crazy?
>>13577826
Nigga a documentary on factory robots is more /m/ than half the threads on this board. Shit, it's the most /m/ thing I can think of outside mecha anime.
>>13571636
>She wasn't even that hot when compared to Faye or even the big shot girl.
Or that trap on Callisto.
>>13577649
> This thread is one of those cases where people forget that fictional characters are supposed to be flawed and irrationa
> supposed to be
That's a pretty bullshit blanket statement anon. Many of our earliest surviving stories are about almost or actually perfect and idealized characters who would certainly be known as Mary Sues by the modern definition if they were written today. Which includes the very earliest known story, Gilgamesh. The only possible fault that could be laid at the character's feet is a fear of death, which the story is largely about his efforts to deal with and that's difficult to really call personality flaw or defect, especially when it doesn't really impact his behavior too much, at least in the surviving remnants of the story.
Characters can be whatever you or the author wants them to be, which includes both flawed and perfect characters. And each method can and has been used to successfully to tell different stories with different points. Perfect characters give us an ideal and ancient civilizations often used them as a means to show people how they should act in a given situation by giving them stories they would always know about how heroes had done so in the past.
There is no expectation and never really has been, and flawless characters are not a new or even bad idea, because some of the most historically famous fictional characters have been written within their own society to be flawless.
>>13577890
There is also Beowulf. Literally flawless man who is incredibly strong and good at everything.
>>13577890
>implying Gilgamesh is a well-written character
>implying Jesus is a well-written character
>>13577974
It doesn't matter whether they're well written. The point is that even the earliest of stories included flawless characters, so saying something is "supposed" to be about flawed characters when everything indicates that stories started out with flawless ones is just being ignorant of history and culture. There are some early stories with flawed characters too and it's very possible that there were many stories predating Gilgamesh that had flawed characters, but both kinds of characters feature in historically and culturally significant works for as far back as we have records.
>>13577981
I thought anon meant "supposed to be" as in "in order to be a good character."
>>13577993
It's possible I simply misinterpreted his meaning, but I still don't see that as a likely meaning re-reading his post. Still, if it is, then I apologize to him in advance.
Even then though I wouldn't say that's true, because Plato can be considered a fictional character and Plato is very definitely well written by most any metric you want to name (beyond personal taste basically). While there may have been a historic Plato there is no way he was as perfect as Aristotle's accounts make him appear to be, hence considering him fictional. Which is the same as Jesus. There was almost definitely a real Jesus, but the bible embellishes his life to fictional levels to make a point.
>>13570528
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9FbVSZdtfk
the shot.. the weight... it's too sad to be carry on....
see you again, space cowboy.... ;_;
>>13577836
That's a fair point, I should have said a documentary on cranes and lifts or something. Even then, it'd be more /m/ than modern Kamen Rider.
>>13578165
>that time toonami ended and feel happen again
>they'll never bring back model kits of the amazing ship designs in this show
S U F F E R I N G
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6-j6jXEEg0
>>13571874
10/10 post
>>13570528
Vengeance is a hell of a drug, OP.
>>13578191
>Even then, it'd be more /m/ than modern Kamen Rider.
>a franchise with robots and power armour everywhere constantly
>>13584527
>Robot and Power Armor
>Constantly
Pick one with your abuse of vowels Brit Bong
>>13571757
Source this shit because that's pretty bonkers to me.
>>13577649
I think the key difference though is that Spike actually had a place to belong too.
Once Faye got over her whole amnesia thing and realized that her home and past life where 11 kinds of gone she really had nothing but the bebop to turn too.
>>13570528
Nigga, have you not tried vengeance??? Shit feels better than sex. I'm not even joking. I strongly suggest losing your virginity first before moving forward with revenge.
>>13579033
Cowboy Bebop's feels do come in a pack, be it happy or sad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPbBhvv6GI8
>>13571874
>In essence the easy going spike we see was essentially dead the whole series, and was simply waiting to "wale up"
This. It's pretty much stated in the opening/closing line to the movie.
