I've been rewatching bits and pieces of this thing and, between all the melodrama, stupid dialogue, awful characterization, mediocre mechanical design, disgusting character design and other failings, there was one thing that irked me in particular. This sequence.
Those three dipshits are standing around having seizures. Why, for fuck's sake, didn't Freedom and Justice just blow the asswipes into pieces right then and there, instead of just letting them bail out? Makes sense from a writing standpoint (gotta have some named rivals and all that shit), but it's completely nonsensical in universe, unless Kira and Athrun willingly wanted to let three dangerous units go away for some unspecified reason.
And this is another thing: after the druggies return to their carrier, Azrael decides to halt the whole thing about invading Orb, since apparently the dozens of Strike Daggers in the battlefield are utterly useless.
I cannot begin to explain how utterly asinine this is. For anyone with a bit of memory, you'll recall that the White Base's role as a whole in the One Year War was minimal. The RX-78 was merely a testbed for new technologies, and not even its most valuable contribution for the larger war effort (the Learning Computer's combat data) was a determining factor in the Federation's eventual victory. Amuro could've been turned into hamburger at any point by Zeon, and the war would still have been won by the Federation.
>>13547064
Shonen battle conventions
![Mobile Suit Gundam SEED - 42.mp4_snapshot_15.55_[2015.11.24_03.57.18].png](https://i.imgur.com/z6YBGX8.jpg "Mobile Suit Gundam SEED - 42.mp4_snapshot_15.55_[2015.11.24_03.57.18].png")
Here's something nice, though: a couple of not-Balls used by ZAFT when they tried to intercept Athrun's shuttle from meeting the Eternal.
>>13547057
Thou shalt not kill,at least until God (re: Fukuda) tells you it's okay. Then it's fine.
>>13547057
>Those three dipshits are standing around having seizures.
>Expecting Kira and Athrun to know that.
I liked Yzak. It was a major crime he was in Destiny so little
>>13547082
>Expecting Kira and Athrun to know that.
Irrelevant. Watch the video: regardless of the reason, they just stand there and Freedom/Justice let them fly away instead of taking the chance to annihilate them.
>>13547064
Azrael was a complete shithead and as dumb as a bag of hammers, but at least he was somewhat entertaining to watch.
>>13547064
>you'll recall that the White Base's role as a whole in the One Year War was minimal. The RX-78 was merely a testbed for new technologies, and not even its most valuable contribution for the larger war effort (the Learning Computer's combat data) was a determining factor in the Federation's eventual victory. Amuro could've been turned into hamburger at any point by Zeon, and the war would still have been won by the Federation.
This is your problem right. You think Seed should work according to UC Gundam story logic and not AU Gundam story logic which is a completely different beast in what it wants to be.
>>13547092
An asian martial arts style rationale to combat.
Attacking an open opponent could be dangerous because you don't know if they're trying to lure you in and catch you off guard.
Countering your opponents moves at high speeds is much safer from that rationale.
>>13547102
>This is your problem right. You think Seed should work according to UC Gundam story logic and not AU Gundam story logic which is a completely different beast in what it wants to be.
Storytelling logic is a universal thing. The fact that three individual units have more power than a whole army is retarded. Also, SEED was initially sold as a reimagining of 0079.
>>13547116
Also, this is literally a strategy I use in Gundam vs. Stand and wait until my opponent attacks and then dodge and punish them for their impulsiveness. Minimize movement to only attack when you know it's effective.
![Mobile Suit Gundam SEED - 34.mkv_snapshot_02.56_[2015.11.25_00.18.19].png](https://i.imgur.com/TzQGJpP.jpg "Mobile Suit Gundam SEED - 34.mkv_snapshot_02.56_[2015.11.25_00.18.19].png")
>>13547116
>An asian martial arts style rationale to combat.
>Attacking an open opponent could be dangerous because you don't know if they're trying to lure you in and catch you off guard.
That logic makes sense... when we're talking about hand-to-hand combat. Freedom (and Justice, to a lesser degree) are beamspam platforms. Aim, shoot, done.
>Countering your opponents moves at high speeds is much safer from that rationale.
Then why not shoot them as they flew away?
>>13547118
>The fact that three individual units have more power than a whole army is retarded.
Gundam Wing and Gundam 00 beg to differ.
>>13547148
Those are cases where the individual units have such a massive technological advantage that they may as well be super robots.
>>13547148
In both cases, it was a small bunch of elite units against an army, not said army also deploying elite units.
Also, 00 had the Meisters in trouble against regular forces at least twice (space against HRL's Tierens and the combined operation at Taklamakan).
>>13547074
>Shonen battle conventions
Pretty much.
You have to assume the next cut where the druggies are talking is happening as the same time Kira and Assram are talking.
>>13547057
Because Kira and Athrun are leftards.
>>13547057
I know we like to rag on Gundam SEED, but this is a mecha trope through and through.
Unless it's a Enemy Mecha/Monster of the day, if the enemy says or makes up any excuse for running away, he, she or it is going to get away until it's time for them to die.
>>13547064
Freedom and Justice would have went to town on the Strike Daggers, and keeping them busy is what made it easier for them to take Orb.
But if you want a meta reason, they're not going to have a fight if the main characters don't have something to do.
>>13547190
Kamille let Jerid and Yazan escape in battle countless times in Zeta Gundam.
>>13547198
>But if you want a meta reason, they're not going to have a fight if the main characters don't have something to do.
Yes, I already argued about that in the OP:
>Makes sense from a writing standpoint (gotta have some named rivals and all that shit), but it's completely nonsensical in universe
>>13547198
This. In CE, the law of mecha battles go: Main Characters vs Namless Grunts: the grunts curbstomped. Main Characters vs other named characters with their own Gundam: chance of an even match.
>>13547200
>>13547190
Just because it's been done before and after doesn't make it a good thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=22KQnBakvHQ#t=357
>>13547250
Well, blame the trends, this isn't something unique to Gundam SEED
>>13547262
It isn't unique, but the especially egregious way it's done here is especially irritating:
>THEY ARE FLOATING RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU, NIMWITS! SHOOT!
>NO! THEY'RE FLEEING AWAY! CHASE THEM AND KILL THEM! HERE'S YOUR CHANCE! DO IT!
>Aw, goddamnit...
>>13547250
When since your not a Japanese anime script writer then there is nothing you can do about it is there?
>>13547064
What the fuck does 0079 have to do with this you autist.
I'm also amazed you totally missed the context for that as well, which is that Azrael is a business representative that doesn't think any of their weapons but the toys he brought are worth shit. He doesn't care about tactics just waggling his dong.
>>13547423
>What the fuck does 0079 have to do with this you autist.
Context. Also, >>13547118
>Azrael is a business representative that doesn't think any of their weapons but the toys he brought are worth shit
>He doesn't care about tactics just waggling his dong.
Wrong. It's clear that he's calling the shots in the EA's forces. Otherwise, why would the actual commander listen to him at all? Also, it's pretty clear right here that the toys he brought are the ones that are worth shit.
>>13547455
>Otherwise, why would the actual commander listen to him at all?
Because like MURIKA the Atlantic Alliance wags its tail for the military industrial complex. Of course it turns out they're both radical racists as well but Blue Cosmos has political power because its members are in important economic positions.
The EA recaptured several other major bases with normal pilots and primarily Dagger variants, it's because Azrael wants to play with his Extendeds that they brought piss all but the Gundams.
>>13547477
>Because like MURIKA the Atlantic Alliance wags its tail for the military industrial complex. Of course it turns out they're both radical racists as well but Blue Cosmos has political power because its members are in important economic positions.
That doesn't answer my question. By >>13547423's logic, Azrael has nothing to do but toot his horn about the super-duper Gundams he brought to the fight. However, it's clear that he's the one in charge of Orb's invasion. Yet nobody overrides his idiotic "tactics", not even Natarle or Gen. Sutherland.
>The EA recaptured several other major bases with normal pilots and primarily Dagger variants
That image is from a videogame. That variant never appeared in either series.
>>13547489
SEED-MSV was developed alongside SEED rather than after the fact, it's more reliable canon than Destiny for fuck's sake.
Why are you bitching about military realism yet expecting people to overrule the chain of command?
>Azrael has nothing to do but toot his horn about the super-duper Gundams he brought to the fight
As far as he's concerned he really doesn't because Orb losing is a foregone conclusion. Which it was.
>>13547526
>Why are you bitching about military realism yet expecting people to overrule the chain of command?
Azrael is not part of any chain of command. It's never actually explained what's his role in the EA's forces, other than being the leader of Blue Cosmos (which isn't explained what it is either).
>As far as he's concerned he really doesn't because Orb losing is a foregone conclusion. Which it was.
Remember that Orb is this super important nation upon which the fate of the entire war (and thus, the planet) rests.
>>13547639
>It's never actually explained what's his role in the EA's forces
That's because he has none. Azrail is a fine arts student's (Fukuda, in this case) commentary on the military industrial complex, where a business man and arms dealer directly controls the military efforts of a world government.
More crap in WebM for you, guys.
Everything about this scene depends on him obtaining the Freedom (and getting his stupid cop-out from killing people in the battlefield). What would he do if he went back to Earth bare-handed, eh? His babbling about "if you do nothing, nothing changes and nothing ends" would face the cold reality of the battlefield (a reality not even Murrue is much aware of, since she apologizes for the "cruelty" of sending the Archangel to defend their own headquarters).
If this guy outright says he's not going to fight either ZAFT nor Earth, then who's he fighting against? Orb? This idealistic sophistry only serves his mindset, since he will be fighting against both ZAFT and Earth.
An often repeated criticism of Destiny is that Kira just plops in the middle of the battlefield, shoots to disable and then flies away unscathed. It seems that this un-accountable type of vigilantism began here, when he took manners on his own hands. Lucky for him that the Archangel was on the same boat as his ideals, isn't it!
Also, the way Kira nods his head to reply annoys me a lot, like if he was rubbing his self-righteousness in front of the audience.
>>13547657
We get it, you don't like it. 99.5% of /m/ agrees with you. Now give it a rest.
>>13547057
This show is ten years old...
You either liked it or you didn't. Nobody cares anymore.
>>13547708
>ten years old
Thirteen by now.
>>13547064
> Amuro kills Ramba Ral
> Amuro kills the Black Tri-Stars
> Amuro Kills Dozel Zabi and the Big Zam
> Amuro Kills Lalah
> The kids save all the Gms from blowing up in Jaburo
> White Base keeps Char busy the whole war
> Amuro kills Chalia Bull
I dunno. Imagine all the aces that Amuro took out fighring at a Baoa Quo. Lalah in the Elmeth and Dozel in the Big Zam together would be able to take out any mobile suit force sent at them alone.
Yes Zeon were outnumbered, but if they could delay the war with Big Zams and newtype weapons long enough they would have a new generation of kids to send off to the war and more trained Gelgoog pilots. I think Amuro's importance is downplayed more than it should.
>>13547657
all i got out of that Webm was how nice the animation was is the original Gundam SEED trailer, none of that pink smoke faggotry and low detail reused animation.
am i the only one around here that has actually seen the original SEED trailer? it made the show look amazing and nothing like the shit we got, and oddly it showed the Astrays as being among the main gundams...
>>13547084
>It was a major crime he was in Destiny so little
the only crime was him not being executed for Panama.
>>13547736
Red Frame was even in the first OP for SEED. Astray is basically as canon as SEED itself, certainly it does more to work its way into the existing lore and explain things from the show than any Gundam manga before it. 00's side mangas make a similar attempt, but 00 is a functional standalone story while SEED desperately needed the help, making Astray stand out much more by comparison.
>>13547749
Wasn't Yzak the only soldier at Panama who wasn't shooting the defenseless Federation troops?
If he deserves to be executed for anything it was that time he shot a fleeing shuttle full of civilians.
Oh boy if you're annoyed by irrational character decisions now....
Please make a thread like this after you watch Destiny I want to laugh my ass off.
>>13547774
>Wasn't Yzak the only soldier at Panama who wasn't shooting the defenseless Federation troops?
he was there commanding officer and directly allowed the massacre to happen. under current laws that is considered a capital war crime an would get you a life sentence at the International Criminal Court or executed by most military tribunals. instead SEED and Destiny completely ignored that it ever happened because of newtype polls supporting Yzak and Fukuda probobly didnt even realize he was portraying a war crime at the time.
>>13547806
Also because by that point both sides were going coocoo for cocoa puffs and were starting to commit war crimes left and right. Prosecuting any of the soldiers for war crimes would have been essentially fruitless by the end.
NGNL, are you back?
>>13547477
>Because like MURIKA the Atlantic Alliance wags its tail for the military industrial complex.
Every western country has a "military industrial complex". In fact most other countries actually own a large percentage of their defense contractors. At least the US defense contractors turn a profit and don't increase debt like yuropoor and jap contractors do.
>>13547064
Azrael did nothing wrong. He was completely right that they couldn't capture Orb with Jesus and Athrun their to protect the island. You are forgetting at how Jesus was able to disarm everyone back in Alaska no problem.
>>13547099
Fuck off coordinator scum.
>>13547867
Remember that SEED tackles the subject of the military industrial complex with all the grace and subtlety with which it does everything else. Defense contractors pushing war for profit and focusing on showing off the shiniest and most expensive new toys is scummy behavior, so of course Azrael goes beyond that to the point of just straight-up being the de facto king of Earth. This also has the beneficial effect of boiling down a massive institutionalized problem into one guy at the top as far as the show is concerned, so that killing him solves the problem once and for all, until Destiny where nothing has changed because reasons.
>>13547897
Now mind you, nothing should logically change just from killing off Azrael. Destiny being Destiny, though, it's for entirely different reasons from the logical ones. Instead of it being that the whole system is so deeply entrenched that killing off the guys at the top won't solve anything, the problem is actually that there was another guy who was even higher at the top and it's killing that guy that'll solve the problem.
>>13547064
Azrael made the right call here, but because of how flippant he was about it that would ruffle some feathers.
In truth he just saw his 3 state of the art weapons and top soldiers get their shit handled to them by 2 unknown weapons that were also man handling the rest of their forces when they weren't engaging the druggies. With the druggies taken off the field there would be nothing left to keep Jesus Yamato and Judas Zala from just shitting on the entire EA assault force.
>>13547927
That doesn't work since it's the company, not the man that makes it work. Part of the reason you don't see many assassinations of Chairmen or CEOs in the real world. It's like cutting off the head of a hydra. On the other hand, no one could top Azrael.
>>13547732
>I think Amuro's importance is downplayed more than it should.
Actually, it's you who is overplaying Amuro and the Gundam's importance. In the larger strategic panorama, a bunch of aces aren't that all important.
>but if they could delay the war with Big Zams and newtype weapons long enough
A bunch of wonder weapons would've done squat to help Zeon win the war, in the same way that having more Panthers and Tigers wouldn't have stopped the Soviet onslaught after Kursk in WWII.
>>13547931
>that were also man handling the rest of their forces when they weren't engaging the druggies.
The ones taking care of the "rest of the forces" were Mwu, Dearka and the M1s.
>In truth he just saw his 3 state of the art weapons and top soldiers get their shit handled to them by 2 unknown weapons that were also man handling the rest of their forces when they weren't engaging the druggies. With the druggies taken off the field there would be nothing left to keep Jesus Yamato and Judas Zala from just shitting on the entire EA assault force.
This only means that Azrael's statement that a couple of overpowered Gundams are more important in the battlefield than the mainline units applies to the whole thing. This is so much a problem in the Cosmic Era that the show itself outright states that the protagonists are more important and powerful than the regular forces. At least other timelines have the decency to pretend that grunts are useful.
>>13547736
>all i got out of that Webm was how nice the animation was is the original Gundam SEED trailer, none of that pink smoke faggotry and low detail reused animation.
You could've least posted a YouTube link to it. All I found were those faggy fan-made things. Also, a trailer says nothing about how the actual thing it's going to be. Who could've predicted that the actual anime would've had endless use of stock footage and unbearable acting? I personally fell hook, line and sinker with the first episodes of this thing.
>>13547698
>99.5% of /m/ agrees with you
And I guess that you're part of the 0.5%...And, to be honest, this kind of discussion is much preferable than the idiotic back-and-forth about G-Reco and miscellaneous meme-spewing
>>13547788
Who needs Destiny when the original SEED was awful in and on itself?
>>13547859
>NGNL
No Game No Life? I don't watch moeshit written by BRs, sorry.
>>13548314
Don't forget the backstabbing nature of of the Zabis and the fact that Char was basically banking on killing them too, thus offing Zeon's highest leadership.
Once that happens Zeon is likely to suffer some sort of internal power struggle - maybe even a civil war a la ZZ - while the Feds are still kicking in the door no less.
>>13548445
>Once that happens Zeon is likely to suffer some sort of internal power struggle - maybe even a civil war a la ZZ
Yep. Even before the war began in earnest, Zeon's forces were divided between Gihren and Zycillia's factions. Plus the underground followers of Zeon Zum Deikun, who could've made a power grab in the middle of such a power struggle.
Under all those circumstances, Zeon's collapse to the EFSF was almost inevitable, with or without the White Base/Gundam in the battlefield.
>>13547129
I imagine this strategy gets you sodomized by funnel units since sitting still is the dumbest thing you could possibly do in EXVS outside of charging in for melee when in cost over.
>>13547057
>>13547064
You see anon, you're making the mistake of assuming SEED would follow any logic, it doesn't its an abortion of a show written by a hack and directed by her back husband or...whatever they are I don't know.
>>13548613
>You see anon, you're making the mistake of assuming SEED would follow any logic, it doesn't its an abortion of a show written by a hack
See, it's pretty easy to rant and whine about SEED being bad and all that shit. It's a different thing entirely to actually handle the aborted fetus in all its repulsiveness.
>>13547749
>>13547774
>>13547806
I wish people would actually watch this shit they bitch about.
Yzak would have been executed. He and many others were on death row until Durandal appealed for their pardon. His case was that executing the young soldiers instead of the people and charge would solve nothing. His true intentions were to present himself as a messiah of sorts.
But I get it, whining like an idiot is much easier.
>>13547174
Freedom and Justice and Providence are 5 Times as powerful as the GAT Gundams, which were superior to everything fielded in Seed except the Guaiz and the 3 druggie Gundams (which I'm guessing Freedom and Justice are only like twice or 3 times as powerful as)
They basically are super robots compared to the rest.
By Destiny this changes to where Freedom's only a little more powerful than the standard forces and Kira will fold if you send enough guys after him or a particularly skilled ace. But in Seed they're laughingly superior to everything.
>>13547719
Fuck me, where does the time go?
>>13547057
They do actually repeatedly spare the druggies. There's like 5 instances where Kira or Athrun could have taken a kill shot but opt to either use a railgun round that won't kill them or just kick them away.
Why I don't know (aside from because they needed the druggies around to have people to fight until the final battle) Kira is Jesus but Athrun still is willing to kill once in a while.
Then in the finale though they casually chop Orga in half because they don't need him anymore.
As far as them not chasing down and killing retreating foes. They never do that. The only time Kira actually tries to chase down someone that's withdrawing from him was when Calamity took Flay's pod.
>>13547064
>The RX-78 was merely a testbed for new technologies, and not even its most valuable contribution for the larger war effort (the Learning Computer's combat data) was a determining factor in the Federation's eventual victory. Amuro could've been turned into hamburger at any point by Zeon, and the war would still have been won by the Federation.
This is not UC. In CE (and basically all AU Gundam's really) the main character Gundam's always single handedly win the war. Grunts are worthless. Kira was taking out Daggers by the dozen's before the trio found him. If they tried to do with Daggers alone they'd be crushed.
>>13548789
>Yzak would have been executed. He and many others were on death row until Durandal appealed for their pardon.
Where is this stated? SEED's After Phase has Yzak in a Councilmember robe (retconned in the Upscale for a ZAFT Commander's White Coat). I never heard of him being on death row or anything like that.
I wish people would actually watch this shit they bitch about. But I get it, making shit up like an idiot is much easier.
>>13548947
>They do actually repeatedly spare the druggies. There's like 5 instances where Kira or Athrun could have taken a kill shot but opt to either use a railgun round that won't kill them or just kick them away.
>Why I don't know (aside from because they needed the druggies around to have people to fight until the final battle)The point of this thread (with video evidence, even) is that many people around here defend the character's actions, despite making no fucking sense from a logical point of view.
>>13548913
>By Destiny this changes to where Freedom's only a little more powerful than the standard forces and Kira will fold if you send enough guys after him or a particularly skilled ace.
Going by the battle on Crete, it seems Kira didn't got that memo, since he was able to mop the floor with everything and everyone he encountered (including the new ZAFT Gundams). Shinn was only able to destroy Freedom by taking advantage of Impulse's weapons versatility and Kira's predictable combat patterns.
>>13549200
In Crete he had the advantage of a three way battle and surprise where he was able to avoid get focused on and duck in an out of combat as he pleased, with nobody being able to press onto him because of the other side.
In Berlin Neo Sting and Stella focusing on him was too much, despite his superiority to 2 of their units and his mobility advantage to Destroy. He needed help to draw some fire off him.
And in Angel Down even before Shinn showed up he and AA were slowly getting backed into a corner because of all the forces focusing on them and no EA to draw their fire.
By Destiny Freedom's speed advantage is lowered that he can't disengage as he pleases and leave his enemies in the dust. He couldn't shake Athrun in 28, he couldn't just blow past Neo and Sting in 32 and he couldn't shake Shinn in Angel Down.
>>13548913
>By Destiny this changes to where Freedom's only a little more powerful than the standard forces and Kira will fold if you send enough guys after him or a particularly skilled ace. But in Seed they're laughingly superior to everything.
Freedom is portrayed like a superhero in Destiny, what are you talking about.
>>13549182
>Where is this stated?
>I wish people would actually watch this shit they bitch about. But I get it, making shit up like an idiot is much easier.
Boy do you look foolish then. It is in the show, I distinctly remember it because it was one of the halfway decent scenes in Destiny. I couldn't tell you the episode off hand, but it was when Athrun takes a sabbatical back to the PLANTs and Yzak & Dearka are assigned as his guides. They visit the graves of the Le Crueset team members and Yzak explains what that other anon did about his stay of execution.
>>13549319
Freedom's a superhero in 13 and 23. Then it starts looking less and less effective until it's destruction.
Though SF shifts back to superhero mode.
>>13549368
>Boy do you look foolish then.
Seems I do. Anyway, my apologies: you were right about this one. I'm masochistic enough to revisit SEED, but not Destiny. No, sir.
Yes, Yzak outright says he and Dearka would've been dead long ago (cut over with scenes of Yzak shooting at the shuttle (firing upon civilians) and Dearka attacking Rau's GuAIZ (insubordination)) if it wasn't for Durandal wanting to preserve PLANT's future generations and all that crap.Even so, this is still one of Fukuda's retcons. After Phase has him in a White Coat shortly after the war's end, making it seem he was never charged for anything. Dearka as well, who's still in a ZAFT red despite going AWOL
>I distinctly remember it because it was one of the halfway decent scenes in Destiny
The animation for this sequence was completely redone for the Upscale.
>>13550259
>and Dearka attacking Rau's GuAIZ (insubordination)
It's probably the fact that desertion during a time of war is punishable by death. Athrun returning to ZAFT calling himself Alex Dino doesn't seem so stupid with that in mind. Same thing for the Archangel crew hiding in ORB.
Kira probably was living under an assumed name too, when you really think about it.
>>13550609
>Kira probably was living under an assumed name too, when you really think about it.
I don't think so. He wasn't officially in the EA's forces. Also, why would anyone waste any time and resources looking for him? Athrun, Murrue and Andy, yes, but not Kira.
Lacus makes more sense, since she actually was in danger by the more radical members of ZAFTlike Durandal.
>>13550609
Dearka only got punished cause he went back to Zaft afterwards.
If he'd stayed in Orb under an assumed name that wouldn't have happened.
>>13551282
>>Dearka only got punished cause he went back to Zaft afterwards.
>If he'd stayed in Orb under an assumed name that wouldn't have happened.
Yep. If I wanted to cook up some sort of justification, I'd say it had to do with Miriallia.
>>13551054
>He wasn't officially in the EA's forces.
Kira was an Ensign on the Archangel, an EA ship. They gave him discharge papers for whenever he wished to leave, which is bullshit in it's own way, but Kira never used them. Kira was listed as MIA, assumed K, and never returned to active duty. They'd have grounds to round him and the rest of the Archangel crew not only for desertion but firing upon their former comrades.
>>13551320
>Kira was an Ensign on the Archangel, an EA ship.
I don't think the rest of the EA's Forces acknowledged his commission. During the interrogation with Sutherland, he always calls Kira the "Coordinator kid", not by his rank.
>which is bullshit in it's own way
On which sense?
>They'd have grounds to round him and the rest of the Archangel crew not only for desertion but firing upon their former comrades.
Everything shows that the EA didn't give a damn about the Archangel and its crew after Alaska. Azrael's orders when he took the Dominion to Mendel were to destroy the ship, and it was Natarle who made a personal appeal for their surrender.
This same pattern follows in Destiny, where the Archangel was a ZAFT target, not EA.
All in all, it seems that the regular military just said "eh, whatever" about the ship and its men.
>>13549578
Freedom was always portrayed heroically.In 28 it sliced Chaos up with a single slash and then jedi sliced Savior. In 32 it made a fool out of Neo.
>>13551512
In 28 it failed to defeat Shinn and he sliced up the Orb fleet because Athrun kept it away.
In 32 it was ineffective against anything for most of the episode and only downed Neo and Destroy at the end.
Then in 34 it outright is destroyed.
There's a reason people said it was running low on Lacus dust after she left the AA.
>>13551805
>There's a reason people said it was running low on Lacus dust after she left the AA.
Fanboys don't count. Those are the same people who said the reactor was leaking because the beam spam wasn't as bright as it was in SEED. Kira wrecked Sting and Athrun in 28. He only didn't stop Shinn because he was holding back on Athrun. Kira was still portrayed as in the right while Shinn was portrayed as a raging dog.
>>13551805
>In 32 it was ineffective against anything for most of the episode and only downed Neo and Destroy at the end.
In 32, its only opponents were Neo and Destroy, the latter being a massive fortress that pulverized anything in its way and carved a hole out of Berlin. You call that "ineffective"? What did you expect, then?
>>13551805
>In 28 it failed to defeat Shinn and he sliced up the Orb fleet because Athrun kept it away.
Shinn wasn't his main target at the time, dumbass.
>>13551816
>Kira was still portrayed as in the right while Shinn was portrayed as a raging dog.
You know what, I'm thinking maybe Shinn was screwed from the start.
If you're not allowed to blow up ships that have surrounded you in a trap in a joint operation to make sure that you see the bottom of the sea coated in your own blood without being seen as a villian, than maybe it's just over for that kind of protagonists.
>>13555391
BUT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! WAR IS EVIL GUYZ, SOLDIERS ARE MONSTERS AND ORB IS SUPPOSED TO BE JAPAN! OF COURSE SHINN IS THE BAD GUY HERE!
Seriously, it always gets me that Kira can blow up buildings at a spaceport while Lacus steals a shuttle and people still defend him as a good-guy pacifist.
You know what question I want to ask?
How come no one on the Archangel or Minerva ever wore normal suits?
>>13555520
Because then we couldn't focus on the best part of Capt. DOA Beach Volleyball.
Personally, I just like to think most people in the CE know how fucked up their world is and just want to die.
>>13555509
It's Kira always wants everyone to walk away, even if he can't always have everyone do that, while Shinn wants everyone who fights against Zaft to die horribly.
That's Fukuda's definition of pacifism. Shinn is wrong because he has no empathy towards his enemies (except Stella and Stella only) while Kira does.
Compare Kira's attack on the port to Shinn's attack on the bases in 16. Kira shoots the one building with the radar once and leaves. Shinn goes out of his way to blow up every building there including the generator and the barracks.
>>13557052
Wasn't that a death camp? Like, Shinn basically stumbled across Dachau. If I was a US Marine and I saw a camp like that, I would go around killing every SS guard I could find.
>>13557083
>Wasn't that a death camp? Like, Shinn basically stumbled across Dachau
You're thinking of the Extended laboratory Shinn and Rey found on 24/25. In typical Fukuda nuance, the place is literally modeled after Auschwitz, railroad tracks and all.
>>13555520
>How come no one on the Archangel or Minerva ever wore normal suits?
Good observation. Throughout the UC (including The Origin and Thunderbolt), crews are always in normal suits whenever there's an known combat situation. Even in 00 crews are suited up.
>>13555509
>Seriously, it always gets me that Kira can blow up buildings at a spaceport while Lacus steals a shuttle and people still defend him as a good-guy pacifist.
It's all a matter of portrayal. I elaborated on that here: >>13547657
>>13550259
>Seems I do. Anyway, my apologies: you were right about this one
I really wish more people could be like you on this board.
>>13547657
To be fair, I mean his other option was to go hide, and let both sides genocide each other. What exactly what he supposed to do? Don't say have the writing work it out so that they could have a grey and black war like UC instead of black and black because that's ignoring the issue.
>>13557758
I try to do my best. I'd rather see discussion than endless anger ("spot the newshit") and meme-spewing.
>>13557767
>To be fair, I mean his other option was to go hide, and let both sides genocide each other.
Hold on one second here. The only thing Kira knew on >>13547657 was that ZAFT was attacking Alaska. He wasn't aware of the Alliance's ploy to fry everyone with Cyclops, nor that Lacus had a shiny new mobile suit available, nor that the people in the Archangel wouldn't remain loyal to the Alliance. The only justification he has for his decision are a bunch of personal tragedies. Sad, yes, but (and this is even more sad) utterly meaningless in the larger context.
>Don't say have the writing work it out so that they could have a grey and black war like UC instead of black and black because that's ignoring the issue.
In a way, that's exactly the issue: how one-dimensional everything is. Both sides on the war want to utterly annihilate each other, from the commanders to the average grunt pilots. The series shows that the only good people, in this massive, global war, are the named protagonists who happen to possess the most powerful spacecraft and mobile suits; powerful enough to stop the war almost by themselves at the eleventh hour. However you want to call it, it's asinine. Bad writing at its finest.
![[RaX]Gundam_Seed_Destiny_-_07_-_(x264_aac)_[36DA1DD7].mkv_snapshot_13.08_[2012.11.04_15.50.19].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/jBuWtw5.jpg "[RaX]Gundam_Seed_Destiny_-_07_-_(x264_aac)_[36DA1DD7].mkv_snapshot_13.08_[2012.11.04_15.50.19].jpg")
>>13557083
Shinn stumbles across a work camp where guards are shooting workers in one of the earlier episodes of Destiny (the episode before the episode where Athrun slaps him for the first time) and the Extended camp a few episodes later. Combined with the EA indiscriminately wrecking civilian shit during the Battle of Orb (and, later, the Battle of Berlin), and finding out what the EA did to Stellar, it's no wonder he has zero empathy for the EA or anyone who seems to side with or protect them.
The EA are psychopaths in SEED. Shinn did nothing wrong.
>>13557083
They were building a secret base using slave labor. One of the gates is damaged in battle, and as they're escaping, the guards start to open fire on the people escaping, and they sic their tanks and turrets on Impulse Gundam.
Shinn, not happy with the mowing down of civilians gets angry, and blasts away at the tanks, the turrets and then starts on the base (keep in mind, while people die, he never trains his weapons on anyone in person/not shooting at him in a tank/turret)
Athrun shows up and tells him to stop, and then he goes and pulls the gates open.
Athrun slaps him for trying to be a hero, he says.
>>13557733
I remembered it because I was watching Zeta Gundam and everyone makes a gigantic deal about putting on normal suits
There's a scene where Blex offers to watch the bridge because he wants Henken to go put on his normal suit.
Then I remembered never seeing normal suits on the bridge of either series.
>>13558131
>Athrun slaps him for trying to be a hero, he says.
And later he escapes, gets Infinite Justice and plays to be the hero himself.
>>13558195
Athrun is best SEED, after all.
>>13558195
>And later he escapes, gets Infinite Justice and plays to be the hero himself.
Reminder: Athrun has been voted the dumbest character in the entire franchise by official Sunrise polls.
>>13558448
You're killing the future, anon.
>>13558448
>Athrun has been voted the dumbest character in the entire franchise by official Sunrise polls.
I'd need to see some evidence. Google (and Yahoo! Japan, for that matter) turns out empty.
>>13557052
>It's Kira always wants everyone to walk away, even if he can't always have everyone do that, while Shinn wants everyone who fights against Zaft to die horribly.
>That's Fukuda's definition of pacifism. Shinn is wrong because he has no empathy towards his enemies (except Stella and Stella only) while Kira does.
>>13558087
>Combined with the EA indiscriminately wrecking civilian shit during the Battle of Orb (and, later, the Battle of Berlin), and finding out what the EA did to Stellar, it's no wonder he has zero empathy for the EA or anyone who seems to side with or protect them.
>The EA are psychopaths in SEED
And here lies the reason why Kira's actions are wrong. Despite of all his spiel about peace and understanding, he (and his followers) seems to be utterly oblivious to the enemy's nature. Through the Earth Alliance's constant actions (their first reaction to Break The World? Massive nuclear retaliation against civilian colonies), it's clear that they're utterly undeserving of any empathy.
When the show tries to portray Kira's actions as acts of admirable nobleness, they end up looking as naïveté. Self-righteous naïveté.
![Mobile Suit Gundam SEED - 13.mp4_snapshot_09.46_[2015.11.28_20.48.34].png](https://i.imgur.com/EjfnDhn.jpg "Mobile Suit Gundam SEED - 13.mp4_snapshot_09.46_[2015.11.28_20.48.34].png")
>>13555520
Except for this ship in this episode, nobody in SEED nor Destiny ever wears normal suits inside spacecraft.
>>13560408
It's not that the enemy doesn't deserve empathy, it's more how Kira conducts himself that's an issue. No matter how much Kira talks about peace and understanding, the fact is he's not willing to listen what his opponents have to say. He assumes everyone would have the same or similar priorities that he would. Remember how he flipped out and destroyed the Savior because the ORB fleet was being destroyed? Kira didn't give a rat's ass about anybody else, and he acted like Athrun was the monster for fighting against ORB. Never mind how ORB sided with ZAFT's enemies, or how Athrun has to look out for his new crewmembers, they're monsters because ORB soldiers are dying. All while Kira ignored Athrun's advice to have Cagalli do something about the alliance politically, Kira just keeps using his guns to make people see things his way.
Kira is not willing to take the first step in understanding his enemies, never tries to talk with anyone but Athrun, he just uses gunboat diplomacy. Violence and intimidation to make further what he believes in, the definition of terrorism. He's going around playing hero, oblivious to what is going on around him.
This isn't the problem with his character though, the problem is that the show doesn't treat it like it's an issue. He never has to face the consequences of his actions, preferring to look the other way. Instead the plot will do backflips to justify him in the end and we're supposed to forget that he did anything questionable in the first place. He acts surprised that ZAFT would attack the Archangel during Angel Down, like his stint in Berlin would instantly erase all animosity from him attacking the Minerva multiple times and a spaceport while Lacus stole a shuttle. He refuses to accept that he's making enemies, because that would indicate someone does have a problem with him.
That's Kira's naivete.
>>13563987
>Kira didn't give a rat's ass about anybody else
Yes he does otherwise he wouldn't also be keeping Orb from sinking Minerva. His problem is that ZAFT isn't trying to save everyone like he is. Kira wants everyone to walk away, Zaft included.
Athrun's argument is basically "The Earth forces are more wrong, and Orb is with them so just write them off and accept that war sucks and people have to die." Which is exactly what Kira swore off last season, and he's pissed at Athrun and wrecks the Savior because Athrun supposedly did too.
He obviously does understand Zaft's position to a degree. Otherwise he'd just let them be destroyed. But it's not like he's gonna agree with them either because he saw where that leads in Seed and just because Zaft seems more justified at the moment doesn't mean he's just gonna write everyone else off.
>>13564684
Kira killed people in Destiny 23 when he destroyed the Minerva's cannon. Kira could have cost the Minvera lives when he shot of Rei's arm leaving the Zaku defenseless. Rei had already lost an arm. Athrun could have died after Kira Jesusslashed Savior. He didn't look after the Savior after that. Athrun could have been picked off by an enemy since he had nothing. The problem is that Kira's actions never have consequences. He can do something completely retarded and the show will never show the negatives to it.
>>13563674
Lacus wore one when escaping the Archangel.
>>13563987
My eternal complaint with Gundam Seed is how much more interesting the setting would be without the protagonists. This setting is about a racial war that can only end in genocide, and that's amazing! It's as grimdark as that one Front Mission manga, done by Thunderbolt's author.
Shit, man. I want to see human ingenuity and low cunning put up against the technological genius and superior skills of the Coordinators. That's a war I'd want to watch! Can the humans wipe out the PLANTs before Genesis fires? Which race will survive, and who will be an evolutionary dead end?
The one thing I can't forgive is how fucking USELESS the Strike Dagger is. Those things are SUPPOSED TO BE GMS, and we all know that GMs won the war in UC. The fuck is happening here?
>>13564797
>The one thing I can't forgive is how fucking USELESS the Strike Dagger is. Those things are SUPPOSED TO BE GMS, and we all know that GMs won the war in UC. The fuck is happening here?
GMs aren't the reason for winning the war, they were only deployed during the last month or two of the war where the Federation was already on the comeback. The tables turned in the Federation's favor before they started rolling out GMs en masse.
Besides, what are you complaining about? Strike Daggers have no problem taking on ZAFT MS.
>>13564797
Strike Dagger's weak points:
-no phase shift
-no striker packs
-reduced weapons
-less performance
-not piloted by kira
>>13564797
>Shit, man. I want to see human ingenuity and low cunning put up against the technological genius and superior skills of the Coordinators. That's a war I'd want to watch! Can the humans wipe out the PLANTs before Genesis fires? Which race will survive, and who will be an evolutionary dead end?
Make it so Coordinators have the skills but not the experience combined, vice versa for the naturals. Both sides have an ego thing going.
>>13547064
>you'll recall that the White Base's role as a whole in the One Year War was minimal
That's wrong though. If the White Base hadn't kept killing off Zeon aces, Zeon would have managed to win eventually.
>>13564871
Zeon never had the manpower to win against the Federation. How many aces did the White Base crew kill? There was Ramba Ral and Lalah.. and I don't recall any others.
>>13564892
No, but they had a decisive technological edge by the end. Gelgoogs were superior to even the Gundam iirc.
White Base ended up killing off Garma Zabi, Ramba Ral, the Black Tri-Stars, M'Quve, Dozle Zabi, Chalia Bull, Lalah Sune, and a host of others, while trashing huge quantities of mobile suits and mobile armors. They also made the Battle of Odessa go much more favorably for the Federation through exposing Elran and made GMs more effective thanks to the Gundam's combat data.
>>13564921
In addition to killing off aces and fucking up Zeon wunderwaffen, the White Base also became a point of obsession for Zeon. How many resources were diverted to destroy a ship that didn't really pose them a threat? Aside from Odessa, the White Base didn't go out of its way to be part of any major offenses until the very end. If those aces and one-off mobile suits and armors were present in other battles, the Feddies may have lost battles or had their victories turn more pyrrhic.
>>13564748
There's plenty of examples of characters wearing normal suits. The point is having whole crews wearing them inside a bridge.
>>13564921
>No, but they had a decisive technological edge by the end.
Decisive my ass. Panther and Me-262 were better than anything the Allies on either side could deploy. Would that have been enough against onslaughts of Shermans and T-34s? If war was about technological advantage, then the US wouldn't be losing against ragheads in Toyota pickups.
>White Base ended up killing off Garma Zabi, Ramba Ral, the Black Tri-Stars, M'Quve, Dozle Zabi, Chalia Bull, Lalah Sune, and a host of others
Irrelevant in the larger context. Don't you fucking get it? Wars are won with strategy and manpower, not a handful of kills here and there.
>>13564943
>If those aces and one-off mobile suits and armors were present in other battles, the Feddies may have lost battles or had their victories turn more pyrrhic.
Considering how Odessa, Solomon and A Baoa Qu went, that's unlikely.
>>13565092
Panthers and Me-262s weren't capable of singlehandedly wiping out entire forces with ease like the Big Zam or Elmeth could.
>Wars are won with strategy and manpower, not a handful of kills here and there.
In the real world, sure. We're talking about Gundam though, where a single person, like Amuro Ray, can destroy a dozen Rick Doms in a matter of minutes.
>>13564684
>Kira wants everyone to walk away, Zaft included.
Except that the series proved over and over that it won't happen. If that isn't the very definition of naïveté, then I don't know what the fuck it is.
>>13565111
>In the real world, sure. We're talking about Gundam though, where a single person, like Amuro Ray, can destroy a dozen Rick Doms in a matter of minutes.
It's tactically valuable, but those numbers are not enough to be of any strategic difference in the much larger context of a war.
>>13565092
>Considering how Odessa, Solomon and A Baoa Qu went, that's unlikely.
Odessa didn't really see the deployment of any wonder weapons, Solomon saw the Big Zam launch in the final moments, and A Boa Qu was just unsalvageable.
However, what if Garma Zabi didn't die? What happens to his sector of occupied Earth? Does Zeon hold it? Does Zeon solidify their conquests and possibly expand a bit? If Char isn't held responsible for killing Garma by Dozle, does he not do more infiltrations and missions where he fucks up the Feddies? What about the Black Tri Stars? Do they not have the opportunity to go and kill or capture more high ranking Federation officers like they did with Revil early on?
Hell, if Char had just left the Gundam the fuck alone after Side 7, Odessa day would've probably resulted in the nuclear destruction of the Feddie land forces.
>>13564797
>This setting is about a racial war that can only end in genocide, and that's amazing! It's as grimdark as that one Front Mission manga, done by Thunderbolt's author.
>and that's amazing!
I'm tired of this idiotic meme about "SEED being grimdark by interpretation". The show is bad enough as it is without you people coming to moronic conclusions.
Friendly reminder that Gilbert Durandal did nothing wrong.
>>13565125
Not when it's one person, but when you have quite a few skilled pilots, with some able to defeat even higher numbers of mobile suits, you can turn the tides of some decisive battles pretty handily.
>>13565131
>However, what if Garma Zabi didn't die? What happens to his sector of occupied Earth? Does Zeon hold it?
Garma wasn't the most competent of commanders. Without the White Base, it's likely that the Earth Federation could've still won Western North America. Add to this Char's machinations.
>If Char isn't held responsible for killing Garma by Dozle, does he not do more infiltrations and missions where he fucks up the Feddies?
No. Why? His sole objective in life (before encountering the Gundam and turning it into his obsession) was to kill the Zabi family. He was capable of anything to accomplish this, potentially even defecting to the Federation.
>What about the Black Tri Stars? Do they not have the opportunity to go and kill or capture more high ranking Federation officers like they did with Revil early on?
That was an lucky opportunity that they took during Loum.
Kira never had an ideology, or a particular enemy he wanted to fight against. That's why he could indiscriminately shoot at multiple sides in a fight inconsequentially, and that's one of the few things I think they got right about Shinn's character.
He was legitimately confused over what he should be fighting over. Without Mwu or any reasonable adult there to tell him what to do, he strayed off. Consider the case where he was confronted with that genocidal maniac Rau at Mendel, who made it very clear he was about to kill a lot of people. What did Kira do? He hesitated and was easily overwhelmed.
He was a constant fuckup that went from battlefield to battlefield fighting with personal distractions. The entire reason, get this, for him being set up to kill Rau was that he decided to randomly blow up the shuttle Fllay was on.
>>13547148
In 00 each of the suits had a special purpose; and even with their bullshit tech advantage they did actually almost lose in season 1 to the entire army basically. The only thing that saved them was "lol3moregundamssuddenlyappeared"
>>13564684
>Athrun's argument is basically "The Earth forces are more wrong, and Orb is with them so just write them off and accept that war sucks and people have to die."
And, as Requiem proved, he was right. Remember that Djibril escaped from Earth in Seiran's shuttle. Would Kira and his people give a damn about this when they could've done a difference, instead of following their mania against Durandal?
>and just because Zaft seems more justified at the moment doesn't mean he's just gonna write everyone else off.
At that point, they were already obsessed with Durandal, since they deemed him responsible for the hit on Lacus. Anything to take them down was justifiable, including attacking Athrun.
>>13565172
>Kira never had an ideology, or a particular enemy he wanted to fight against. That's why he could indiscriminately shoot at multiple sides in a fight inconsequentially,
Exactly. Can you (or anybody else) understand where is he actually going with his spiel on >>13547657? Ideology it isn't, that's for sure.
>He was legitimately confused over what he should be fighting over.
More bad writing here, people. Kira doesn't like to fight, and he magically appeared alongside Lacus after losing the Strike. For obvious reasons, however, the show NEEDS Kira fighting.
The series never deals with this contradiction, and (instead of giving him a clear purpose that makes sense in context) the writing just glosses it over with empty soap opera dramatic dialogue to get him back on action.
>>13565214
>The series never deals with this contradiction
>"If I have the power to make a difference, I should put it to good use."
Seems to make sense to me.
>>13565523
But that isn't dealing with the issues.
Fighting is wrong and shouldn't be done
I have the power to change stuff through fighting so it is okay to fight
But it is not okay for others to fight if they have the power to make a difference
Thus I will fight them (despite fighting being wrong cause it's okay for me) because they are wrong to fight (despite having power to make a difference) and ignore this always creates more fighting (which is bad)
It doesn't make sense. It works on the logic that Kira is always right
>>13547057
>>13547064
/m/ has said countless times how SEED is shit.
>>13547064
>Amuro could've been turned into hamburger at any point by Zeon, and the war would still have been won by the Federation.
As long as the Self Learning Computer's data would've been retrieved and used for what it was used, developing the mass produced unit... the GM.
>>13565133
He'd already won the war and turned most of Earth to his side. Then he decided to start spamming WMDs to make people follow his stupid plan so he could feel better about not getting his waifu.
That is doing everything wrong.
>>13565662
Kira sees it that it's better for him to fight because he shoots to disable (and even though it shouldn't work it usually does and the majority of his targets get to walk away) and wants everyone to survive. Where as the other people with the power to make a difference just want to kill the other side and let their side win.
>>13565953
The Learning Computer's data only served to improve the GM's performance. It was a nice addition, but not a decisive factor.
>>13565662
>>13565624
Remember that (to make the writing even worse) he came to the decision to go back to the war BEFORE obtaining the Freedom.
>>13565523
>"If I have the power to make a difference, I should put it to good use."
>>13566351
>Kira sees it that it's better for him to fight because he shoots to disable and wants everyone to survive.
Under the reality of two sides actively seeking to destroy each other, this doesn't work. The only one this attitude serves is Kira's (and his followers') own self-righteousness.
>>13566354
Yeah except he already killed all the guys that wanted to do that and killed most of the racism by letting EA go full stupid and then liberate the civilians.
There was no need for his plan beyond he wanted to be in charge of everyone and assumed that he and Rau Le Cruset's life experiences were the norm for everoyne.
>>13566381
He can still disable with Strike, just not as effectively so they'd have to pick and choose their battles more carefully or get more help but he could still go back to battle.
It's not as if he couldn't count on being able to get another mobile suit somewhere along the line.
>>13566430
>Under the reality of two sides actively seeking to destroy each other, this doesn't work.
Why should he just have to accept that people will die and there's nothing he can do about it?
Especially in Destiny where he and his team already defused a war once before.
>>13566381
>he came to the decision to go back to the war BEFORE obtaining the Freedom
So what? All of his friends were making a difference with whatever they could do, and they had no mobile suits at all. It's not like Kira wouldn't be able to make a difference in an Astray or a rebuilt Strike. If he'd known about the Freedom before he made the decision /m/ would just double down on that silly "Darth Lacus" meme of her manipulating him into being her personal attack dog. The fact that he made that decision without any prompting or the lure of a new MS is part of his character development. At all points prior to that he was either literally forced, heavily coerced, or dick-twisted into getting into the cockpit. Lacus removed him from that situation, removed him from the proximity of war altogether like he'd been begging for since the second episode and he decided that to stay isolated and think only of himself when he was able to make a difference in the lives of others was the wrong thing to do.
>>13565624
>I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO FIGHT YOU AND YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO FIGHT ME
You seem to be forgetting that he repeatedly announced to people that he didn't want to fight them and asked them to just go home. Lacus even announced at Jachin Due that they weren't there to fight the rank and file, only to destroy a WMD. Kira wasn't attacking people who didn't want to fight, he was removing the ability to fight from those who chose to stand in the way of that. And yes, lots of people on ships died. Kira's supposed pacifism is greatly overexaggerated by /m/, in the show he's pretty pro-active about military matters after the Aegis exploded.
>>13566430
>out-of-context screenshot from a 3rd party video game
>relevant in any way to the actual show
>>13566327
The EA had no intention of surrendering, even after Lord Dibrijil's cover was blown. He was right to go after their WMD programs, because the first thing the EA would do if declared war on was visit Aprilius with nukes at the drop of a hat.
>>13567044
>He can still disable with Strike
Then why he never did previously?
>>13567052
>Why should he just have to accept that people will die and there's nothing he can do about it?
I don't know. Common sense, maybe? At that point, under his circumstances, there was nothing for him to do except accept the reality of his situation. Instead, the writing ignores that and he's given precisely the very thing he needs in order to keep fighting on his terms. Convenient, don't you think?
>>13567076
>All of his friends were making a difference with whatever they could do
Wrong about intent. They weren't "making a difference" (god, that sounds like propaganda for an NGO) when they joined the Archangel. It was a matter of survival.
>It's not like Kira wouldn't be able to make a difference in an Astray or a rebuilt Strike.
He wouldn't be able to do much more than he was doing until that point (ie. winning some one-on-one battles here and there).
>and he decided that to stay isolated and think only of himself when he was able to make a difference in the lives of others was the wrong thing to do.
As the screencaps prove, he's not thinking on anything else except his own miasma of "ideals".
>If he'd known about the Freedom before he made the decision /m/ would just double down on that silly "Darth Lacus" meme of her manipulating him into being her personal attack dog.
That could be one way to make his characterization work a bit better. Instead of being determined about going back, he is conflicted about his true wishes: cognitive dissonance. Lacus then takes him to the Freedom and gives him the choice of going back. That would've been an interesting scene.
>You seem to be forgetting that he repeatedly announced to people that he didn't want to fight them and asked them to just go home.
>Kira's supposed pacifism is greatly overexaggerated by /m/, in the show he's pretty pro-active about military matters
This is what I mean with "naïve self-righteousness".
>>13567407
After ZAFT captured Requiem, there was no EA to speak of. All its leadership was dead. and the population on Earth had rebelled against Logos. It's kicking a dying dog.
>>13567079
Isn't it 2nd party?
>>13567079
>Out of context
Oh? You need context? The characters in that image are noticeably upset with Kira because he kept butting into their battlefields, and got Heine killed by disabling his suit, thus making it so he couldn't escape an attack.
Furthermore in that battle your forces are trying to prevent the destruction of the Extended development facility so it's existence can be made known to the public. This involves fighting an enemy composed of Phantom Pain, Titans and Orb pilots.
Kira shows up because CAGALLI IS CRYING ABOUT THE ORB PILOTS and tries to disable everyone rather than just disable the Orb pilots, ignoring the fact that by doing so a large bomber plane will destroy any evidence of the facility.
There's your context. Kira basically doesn't want the ZEUTH forces to defend themselves and the facility because the enemy pilots will get hurt if they do. He's A-OK with evidence of crimes against humanity being wiped out as long as no one gets hurts.
>>13567471
>Heine killed
Heine got killed by being a fucking faggot and not checking his surroundings, that's it, so much for being a supposed "ace"
>>13567484
That still wouldn't have happened if Kira wasn't there though.
>>13567484
Still wouldn't have happened if Kira hadn't decided to butt into the fight because POOR WITTLE ORB SOLDIERS DINNDUNOFFIN HOW DARE THE BIG MEAN ZEUTH TRY AND DEFEND THEMSELVES
Also I doubt anyone was really expecting a surprise attack from above by the Gym's Moonrace faction.
>>13567489
>>13567501
no fuck you
Heine gets his Gouf hand rekt and goes all hotblooded charging against Kira, only to forget the crazy bitch in the Gaia they were fighting in the first place and get killed in a even worse fashion that Nicol
what was the fucking point of such a character?
>>13567509
Fukada wasting money on IDOL VAs.
>>13549578
>less and less effective until it's destruction
it kept fucking more advanced units all over the place despite being a kind of outdated suit
>>13567528
Personally, I saw Kira being a better pilot in the Strike than when he got the Freedom. Suddenly he gets the freedom and it's just beam spam everywhere and getting either held back or wrecked by the druggies and any other named pilot in a suit that's 4 times more powerful.
>>13567509
Let's watch that scene again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1PD2deaMiU
Heine and Stella are fighting
Kira shows up and is blasting everyone, makes his way to them.
Stella attacks him, gets knocked into the ocean. Freedom turns on Heine and cuts off it's arm.
Stella gets out of the ocean, and she's mad, and she goes up to attack Freedom, and seeing Heine in her path, she cuts through him to get to Freedom, and is kicked back into the sea.
I don't know if it's different on the original version though, so someone will have to check.
But if Kira wasn't there, that wouldn't have happened, or at the very least, he wouldn't have been killed by Stella.
But even if we call that Heine's fault, they probably wouldn't have been in that situation if Kira didn't blow up the Minerva's positron cannon in the first place, especially since they aren't the aggressors of the battle in the first place.
>>13567515
Why don't they just get him a replacement VA for games or something. Or shit, if they can't do that, just have Abbey do the talking for him in battle on SRW or something.
You guys remember Abbey, right?
>>13567554
It's called "wussing out". It's very clear in the OP image.
>>13549578
Freedom is seen as such a big deal specifically because of it's NJC, and because he's a character from the last series. There's a point the series goes to make when they have Yzak, Dearka and Athrun send Sting and Auel running home.
But maybe they just wanted to show off the ZAKUs, because Lunamaria cuts off Chaos' leg shortly afterwards
What I don't get is that in GSD, shouldn't mobile suits be a bit stronger than before? Are none of the current MS any more powerful than the Raider/Forbidden/Calamity Gundams which went toe to toe with it on a regular basis? They didn't have NJCs and they seemed to do just fine.
I'm not supposed to believe that those three knuckleheads are among the most powerful pilots around, am I?
>>13567581
>Are none of the current MS any more powerful than the Raider/Forbidden/Calamity Gundams which went toe to toe with it on a regular basis?
They went toe to toe because Kira and Athrun let them escape every fucking time: >>13547057. In Destiny, Kira at least bothers to put a bit of actual damage int the Extended Gundams.
![[RaX]Gundam_Seed_Destiny_-_23_-_(x264_aac)_[4E19120A].mkv_snapshot_21.35_[2012.11.04_20.24.31].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Zzd2qyU.jpg "[RaX]Gundam_Seed_Destiny_-_23_-_(x264_aac)_[4E19120A].mkv_snapshot_21.35_[2012.11.04_20.24.31].jpg")
>>13567515
>>13567591
Are you kidding me?
They would have taken Freedom out if Justice didn't appear, and if we're excluding the Three on One bout, I'm pretty sure that Calamity hits Freedom in the back in a one on one bout, and fuck, Justice Gundam had to save him there again.
They get damaged all the time, so I'm not even going to bother refuting that point
In Destiny, I don't think Freedom Gundam even has to block anything until Episode 32 or 28
>>13567606
>They would have taken Freedom out if Justice didn't appear,
Freedom was doing pretty well, except for the fact that Kira was evading, rather than take some distance and shoot them from afar. It's a beamspam platform.
>They get damaged all the time, so I'm not even going to bother refuting that point
All the time? Bullshit. Before the final battle, the only damage Kira manages to do on those dipshits is cutting the Calamity's bazooka.
And he never kills either of them: Athrun killed one with METEOR's giant beam saber, and two were made good by Yzak in the fucking Duel.
>>13567569
Wow! The comments section of that video sure loves Kira.
>>13567769
Who else is going to be watching Gundam SEED Destiny again willingly?
>>13565214
What really gets me is that the Freedom apparently can be repaired with parts from the inside of the Archangel. Without available parts from ZAFT it should take much longer to repair any battle damage however small.
Despite all this Kira doesn't want anyone touching his machine. Good luck repairing all that by yourself, dipshit.
>>13567928
>What really gets me is that the Freedom apparently can be repaired with parts from the inside of the Archangel. Without available parts from ZAFT it should take much longer to repair any battle damage however small.
Well, Eternal is the intended tender ship for both Freedom and Justice, so they can probably be repaired there. And I don't remember Freedom nor Justice taking any damage in Orb, or at any time before they met up with Lacus.
Lucky for them, don't you think? Imagine what would've happened if Freedom lost any of its weapons.
Also, it's not apparent in the series in the slightest, but there's a gap of two and a half months between the battles in Mendel and Jachin Due: https://web.archive.org/web/20090302202814/http://www.gundamofficial.com/worlds/ce/background/timeline.html
>>13567928
The power of the freedom mainly comes from its unlimited power source compared to the GAT series thanks to the nuke. Thus the insides shouldn't be too different.
>>13569433
>The power of the freedom mainly comes from its unlimited power source compared to the GAT series thanks to the nuke. Thus the insides shouldn't be too different.
Fun Fact: The HGCE Freedom Revive's manual retconned the generator output. It's now listed as unknown.
>>13569446
Don't forget the picture
>>13569446
zomg freedom could power the entire earth!
>>13547057
>mediocre mechanical design
Not at all that's the one good thing about it.
I don't get why people hate Destiny so much. Kira did nothing wrong and Shin was an annoying asshole. You faggots really get your panties in a twist because people didn't like your screaming monster and instead wanted an a hero?
>>13567928
Zaft was cranking out spare arms for Duel the same day they stole it when Kira melted one with the Agni.
All ships can easily produce spares even for other faction machines they just stole apparantly. AA isn't unusual in that regard.
>>13567581
>What I don't get is that in GSD, shouldn't mobile suits be a bit stronger than before?
Freedom was still stronger because nuclear, although not quite the extent of Seed. Freedom was 4 times as powerful as the GAT-X series and we see it effortlessly stop Duel with it's bare hands and dodge pointblank fire from it.
The Zaft second stage are closer. It's stronger than them but not to the point where they're totally helpless against it.
>>13572557
>I don't get why people hate Destiny so much. Kira did nothing wrong and Shin was an annoying asshole. You faggots really get your panties in a twist because people didn't like your screaming monster and instead wanted an a hero?
If Kira was actually the protagonist from the start and Shinn his new rival, this would have made for a better story.
Kira did a LOT wrong, but the series would twist around reality to make sure that he never has to actually admit any actual fault, and Shinn is what happens when you take an angry antagonist, poor directing and a lack of direction and abandon him as a character.
If you want to make him a villian, go right ahead, but at least do a decent job of it. At least with a character like Jerid, I don't have to ask what he's doing in the final battle or why he's there.
>>13573146
>It's stronger than them but not to the point where they're totally helpless against it.
chaos, gaia and abyss were a fucking joke compared to Kira everytime he appeared
>>13573146
Freedom wasn't protrayed as the same force of nature it was in
They realized that Orb was a lot cause, even with Freedom and Strike Gundams. Sure, they blew up the nukes, but the battle kept raging on, and ZAFT/EA had to wear themselves out.
In GSD, Freedom is held up like some legendary mobile suit, and despite the advancements in technology, pretty much everyone can't do a thing to him, and it can change the course of battle alone. On one of it's first interruptions, Freedom is shown lobbing off a part of every named character except for Athrun.
Do I need to go into Strike Freedom?
>>13572557
>I don't get why people hate Destiny so much. Kira did nothing wrong
Didn't he disable Rey's ZAKU while they were shooting at the ship that was trying to crash into them?
>>13573292
>Didn't he disable Rey's ZAKU while they were shooting at the ship that was trying to crash into them?
No he disabled Rey's Zaku when they were shooting at a ship that was disabled and sinking almost the instant it moved into their gun range.
People get that mixed up with the Murasame guy who actually did Kamikaze into Minerva, of which Kira was actually going to try to stop except Athrun was still keeping him away from the battle.
>>13573272
Chaos had Kira backed into a corner in 32, to the point where the Orb guys had to save him.
Stella's a reckless berserker, Auel was disabled with a surprise railgun hit when he thought he was safe underwater where nobody could get him, and Sting left himself open for a counter when he tried to ambush Kira, all pilot errors, and Sting later proved he could be trouble for him.
They're close enough to Freedom's specs, to the point where when they aggressively attacked him and there wasn't others involved in the fight they had to watch for, Kira was unable to shake Chaos Savior and Impulse like he usually could to weaker machines.
>>13569433
>The power of the freedom mainly comes from its unlimited power source compared to the GAT series thanks to the nuke. Thus the insides shouldn't be too different.
That's assuming that ZAFT only limited itself to copy the GAT line.
>>13573265
Psst, >>13572557 is trolling.
![[SEED-Fansubs] Gundam SEED Destiny - 32.avi_snapshot_08.35_[2015.11.30_22.22.59].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/bYw0gHq.jpg "[SEED-Fansubs] Gundam SEED Destiny - 32.avi_snapshot_08.35_[2015.11.30_22.22.59].jpg")
>>13573385
>Chaos had Kira backed into a corner in 32, to the point where the Orb guys had to save him.
Stop exaggerating. Kira and Sting were exchanging fire. No one was backed into a corner. In fact, Sting even said that Freedom was much more powerful than Chaos in that same fight. Somehow Sting gained the ability to shooting beams from his feet and shit in that exchange too.
No suit in early Destiny is as good as Freedom. Destroy was the first suit that could match it.
>>13573385
>Chaos had Kira backed into a corner in 32, to the point where the Orb guys had to save him.
Bullshit. Kira was performing pretty good against Chaos. The Murasames and Cagalli appeared to relieve him so he could focus on the Destroy.
![Mobile Suit Gundam SEED - 06.mp4_snapshot_10.26_[2015.12.01_03.36.35].png](https://i.imgur.com/n6Dj241.jpg "Mobile Suit Gundam SEED - 06.mp4_snapshot_10.26_[2015.12.01_03.36.35].png")
>>13573135
>Zaft was cranking out spare arms for Duel the same day they stole it when Kira melted one with the Agni.
>All ships can easily produce spares even for other faction machines they just stole apparently. AA isn't unusual in that regard.
Sure seems that way. In any case, it would be interesting if this was treated as a plot point: how do you get spares for stolen units? Or even one-of-a-kind prototype machines made by your own forces? For instance, how many beam rifles and shields was the White Base carrying?
Do they have In situ 3D scanning and fabrication onboard the ships? What would be the limits of such machinery? Can they copy a whole unit or prototype weapon from scratch? How long would it take?
>>13573623
More to the point, it took Chaos, Neo's Windam and Destroy to do something like that.
On that note, what happened to all the Windams in that battle?
>>13573657
They just use 3D printers!
>People think Sting was overpowering Kira into a corner
lol what
>>13573768
That slash still doesn't make sense.
>>13573778
It's not supposed to. Like that time Kira used the METEOR to cut a battleship in half and no one died.
>>13573768
>vertical overhead swing
>Chaos gets cut up horizontally and loses both arms and its backpack although the chest was unharmed and in front of the backpack
>>13573791
>Savior loses the right forearm after the first slash
>then the second slash completely tears off the head, lower legs, and the remaining arm
>the Freedom is in almost the exact same pose before and after the second slash, no idea how it moved if at all
Fucking hilarious. It's like Kira didn't move and just stayed in that pose while the Savior just fell apart.
I wonder when will pro-kira wake up there eyes and see how there hero skills are actually pure magic.
>>13573814
Jedi magic.
There's no consistancy with Freedom in Destiny.
In 23 it overpowers everyone and is able to hit people before they barely realize he's there and cuts through the entire battlefield and then back to AA without anyone able to catch him. In 28 he can't hit Shinn and Athrun is somehow able to keep him away the whole fight and even after he disables him he's still not able to get to Shinn to stop him in time.
In 28 he wrecks Chaos with one slash with any effort whatsoever. In 32 suddenly he's forced into a dogfight with him he can't break out of.
In 26 he casually weaves through an entire base shooting at him to break their radar, then flies away without getting hit, but he can't get through Destroy's shots?
And if he can just casually overpower Savior with brute force why can't he do the same to Impulse?
>>13573810
Or the Freedom can time stop.
>>13573768
that slash does not makes any sense, how did he cut the chaos into ribbons with ONE attack
>>13573791
I love this one, Athrun getting royally rekt
>>13574572
>that slash does not makes any sense, how did he cut the chaos into ribbons with ONE attack Answer: Fukuda doesn't care as long as that shit looks cool.
>>13574555
Destiny only works because Fukuda says it works. The Freedom is only as powerful as it needs to be for a scene to work, Cagalli is OOC, Mu survived SEED without explanation, Athrun has to repeat his character arc from SEED, Kira's treated like a paragon despite being a terrorist and Lacus's kleptomania is something we're supposed to ignore. Destiny is not just a shit show, it undermines first-SEED with every action.
>>13574590
>Mu survived SEED without explanation
He wasn't a fortress.
>>13574590
>Kira's treated like a paragon despite being a terrorist
b-but he didn't kill anybody!
save those guys that selfdestructed when the freedom first appeared...
>>13574555
>In 26 he casually weaves through an entire base shooting at him to break their radar, then flies away without getting hit, but he can't get through Destroy's shots?
Something tells me that Destroy has more power than an entire ZAFT base. Remember that the damn thing singlehandedly tore Berlin apart(nevermind the fact that ZAFT's Gundam team was killing Destroys by the dozen a couple of episodes later).
Found another thing to be bothered about while checking that episode: after saving Lacus' and Andy' asses with the Freedom (again...), Lacus insists that Kira stays on the Archangel, seemingly to protect Murrue and Cagalli.
Why? The Archangel is a battleship and Murrue has experience as its captain. Cagalli herself is a competent MS pilot. Why would they need Kira and the Freedom to protect them? Can't they fend off by themselves?
Yeah, well, Cagalli sure can't in Destiny, but Murrue can.
Also, why does Lacus need to make this whole plan to steal a ZAFT shuttle in order to get back to PLANT? Can't she hitch a ride through Orb?
>>13574616
>Destroy
oh how I fucking hated that thing, even worse when fucking Shin knows the dumb blond bitch is piloting it and killing everyone and that only pushes him furhter to go versus the freedom
sure dude, let's ignore the shady masked guy you gave the girl in the first place who put her in the damn thing
>>13574590
>Kira's treated like a paragon despite being a terrorist
>and Lacus's kleptomania is something we're supposed to ignore.
>Destiny is not just a shit show, it undermines first-SEED with every action.
Y'know, those two things you mentioned are in SEED itself. The first series doesn't need Destiny to undermine itself. It's awful enough in and on itself.As a matter of fact, I made this thread focusing on SEED alone, not Destiny
>>13574616
>Also, why does Lacus need to make this whole plan to steal a ZAFT shuttle in order to get back to PLANT? Can't she hitch a ride through Orb?
Because Lacus is a kelpto and gets off to stealing shit.
I can never really put my finger on why I dislike SEED Gundam designs, something about them just really puts me off
I think it is because they are very derivative but at the same time I love the MKII as that is derivative as possible. I think it might be because many look like a 12 year olds first custom so he just painted it a horrible bright colour. There is no real style shinning through, they are just gundams
>>13574636
>I think it might be because many look like a 12 year olds first custom so he just painted it a horrible bright colour.
That's exactly what they are. Do I have to remind you that Fukuda consulted with his son on mechanical design?
This is also to reply to >>13571801
>Not at all that's the one good thing about it.
Fucking GINN is the ugliest Zaku derivative out there. Even the Z.A.K.U. line looks better.
>>13574590
>Kira's treated like a paragon despite being a terrorist and Lacus's kleptomania is something we're supposed to ignore.
That literally happens in Seed too though.
>>13574590
>Athrun has to repeat his character arc from SEED
This annoyed me the most, honestly.
The fact that they couldn't think up anything, ANYTHING, to do with Athrun in Destiny, and that they decided to just reset him back and do his ENTIRE STORY again, just pisses me off.
>>13574616
>Why would they need Kira and the Freedom to protect them? Can't they fend off by themselves?
Not a chance. They'd never have made it through Angel Down without Kira to disable most of the attacking MS's for them. They might have been able to get by with the 15 or so Murasame's they picked up, but they wouldn't have those because they only got them because of them butting into Crete battle again which they wouldn't do if Kira wasn't there to spearhead them, they'd have to stay underwater and pray to god nobody found them and if they did they were screwed.
>Can't she hitch a ride through Orb?
Considering Orb is under the control of Yuna who hates them and wants Cagalli to be under his thumb, that's not gonna happen.
They'd have an easier time raiding an EA base and taking one of their shuttles by force.
>>13574659
they should have let him stay as Alex Dino
>>13574648
THEY BROUGHT BACK THE HEADBUTT GINN CONCEPT FOR THE ELIJAH CUSTOM!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-XBeeExtmQ
>>13547057
I think it is pretty clear that he was just a little shocked. I'm sure the rest of this thread went real well.
>>13574817
>I think it is pretty clear that he was just a little shocked.
> I'm sure the rest of this thread went real well.
Who? You're being a bit vague there.
People often go on about how GSD is about Shinn becoming the villain, but look at what Kira goes through.
He starts off traumatized by the last war and due to circumstance, he has to fight again. However, he acts as a terrorist due to his distrust of ZAFT and Durandal, as well as disagreement with how his country's elected officials entered into an alliance with the EA causes him not to join with the ORB forces.
So, he's going around making the war more complicated with his illegal weapons. When confronted with how much of an asshole he's being by Athrun, he does begin to question whether he's doing the right thing. However, immediately afterwards he helps Lacus steal a shuttle while he blows up part of a spaceport. Real peaceful guy, right? But when his interests (the ORB fleet) are threatened, he viciously tears apart the only person who stood a chance of calming him down. He's beginning to stop questioning himself on the matter, the radicalization begins.
We see this evolve as time goes on, with his disbelief that ZAFT would go after him in Operation Angeldown, to his defense of ORB during the attempted extradition of Djibril, who I remind you ended up blowing up the PLANTS and Kira doesn't give a fuck, to him accepting Lacus's findings on the Destiny Plan (a 10-year old book from a destroyed lab that lays out something different from what Durandal says? Convenient, isn't it?), to ORB breaking it's ideals to fight Durandal (while Cagalli monologues about how they will save the world), to him fighting alongside zealots like the DOM Troopers ("You'd have to be pretty messed up to disagree with Lacus"). Hell, this really extends to the entire old cast.
The tragedy is, they don't see the contradictions of their actions as they've pretty much taken over the world. Kira and Co. have become unthinking, radicalized dogs. It's not just Shinn. This is what Fukuda means by them going off the path of righteousness or whatever.
>>13575705
>He starts off traumatized by the last war
See here's the problem. He isn't. Kira never shows any trauma from the last war. He's just sitting on his ass watching the ocean early on. Then when Junius 7 falls he barely shows emotion. When he and Athrun met up after the Minerva docked at Orb Kira was the one who comforted Athrun. Athrun and Cagalli showed various signs of war trauma. Kira didn't. That would require Kira showing weakness and Kira doesn't show weakness in Destiny. He's presented as perfect.
Amuro in Zeta showed trauma after the OYW. Kira in Destiny doesn't. Kamille in ZZ obviously had war trauma.
>>13575756
>trauma
Im sure one of the Druggies hit him from behind very easily while Kira is in complete mental shutdown.
>>13547057
The obvious loop of the green dude freaking out is hilarious, especially when they just keep the same loop as the cut-ins come in over it.
>>13575756
Uso would call Kira a whiny bitch.
Kira and Shinn go through the exact same character arc during Destiny. The only difference is they want Kira and Co. to look heroic with their bright sky and pretty dresses while Shinn and Co. look evil with their military uniforms and posing in a poorly-lit concentration camp.
> Both have baggage from the first war.
> Both fight for what they believe is a better tomorrow.
> Both become more extreme as the series progresses.
> Both shoot Athrun down.
> Both ignore the consequences of their actions.
>>13575940
Talking about Seed Destiny. Seed Kira and Destiny Kira are essentially two different people.
>>13576062
>Talking about Seed Destiny. Seed Kira and Destiny Kira are essentially two different people.
Strike-Kira: A somewhat generic Gundam protagonist.
Freedom-Kira: A bad attempt at turning Kira into a Super Robot protagonist.
Destiny-Kira: Freedom-Kira as written by fanfic writers.
>>13575705
That is far more thought than anyone involved in the shows making put into the show.
Kira's right because they're repeating the endgame of Seed, where Orb and Lacus are right and everyone else is wrong because they're hateful towards their enemies. That's about all the thought put into it.
It's just Seed's second half but from the start this time because Kira and Lacus against the world became their iconic characterisation and they couldn't change it because that's what the fanbase expected. Like how Amuro and Char default to their 0079 roles against despite Zeta in CCA because that was what they were popular for, except better because Tomino is a good wri...ehem.... Tomino is a more competent writer than Morosawa.
>>13576466
>That is far more thought than anyone involved in the shows making put into the show.
I get that a lot when I over-analyze Destiny. A lot. It's funny how the writing tries to be so simplistic but due to it's shoddy workmanship I can crank something like this out.
And trust me. I know a guy who can rationalize everything in Destiny as something Fukuda planned. The flawless victory was meant to show how far Shinn's mental state had deteriorated, that kind of guy. Next time he pulls out "Shinn was set up to be the bad guy from the beginning, like Anakin Skywalker," I'm dropping this.
I really find it funny though how Shinn was supposed to be a dark-parallel to Kira in SEED, but upon examination how him and Kira go through the exact same arc in Destiny unintentionally. I can definitely see Kira pulling armed interventions after Destiny because of what he became. But unlike the 00-boys, Kira never realizes the consequences of his actions or has to deal with them. The world would jump through hoops to justify him and he wouldn't have to be held responsible for what he did. It's just someone worse came along and the show was like "well, that's it. You have to cheer for Kira now and forget all your comments about the shitty things he's done." Like it excuses his actions.
Fukuda is a big fan of asspulls though, so it's all for naught.
>>13576531
>Like it excuses his actions.
It kind of does. Most of Kira's "plot" if you call it that in Destiny is Kira refuses to just side with Zaft because he thinks Durandal is evil. Instead he causes everyone trouble as a third side. Is Durandal evil after all.Yes he is. Kira was right not to trust him.
>>13576812
>Is Durandal evil after all.Yes he is. Kira was right not to trust him.
Eventually. After weeks of wasting time doing armed interventions. Instead of having the Archangel dicking around to stop Durandal, they could've made an effort to get rid of Djibril. You know, the guy that's ultimately responsible for Orb's decision to join the Earth Alliance.
>>13576466
>despite Zeta
Cause Char "I have never betrayed anyone" Aznipple is certainly not a scum bag. His ambition doesn't even change between zeta and CCA just the intensity of his plan from frustration, he even knows it is wrong
>>13577293
>His ambition doesn't even change between zeta and CCA just the intensity of his plan from frustration, he even knows it is wrong
The only thing Char wanted in CCA was having a final mano-a-mano with Amuro. He never gave two shits about resurrecting Zeon or committing genocide upon Earth.
>>13573810
I thought it was a comparison of original and remastered scenes.
>>13578996
>He never gave two shits about resurrecting Zeon or committing genocide upon Earth.
Yeah, attaching engines to asteroids was something Char wasn't interested in.
>>13579895
No, they're both 16:9.
>>13578996
Of course he did. Even after Amuro defeated him he was still satisfied that Axis was gonna fall. Beating Amuro would have been nice, but it wasn't his only goal.
![Mobile Suit Gundam SEED - 46.mp4_snapshot_05.06_[2015.12.03_04.21.29].png](https://i.imgur.com/Njagojf.jpg "Mobile Suit Gundam SEED - 46.mp4_snapshot_05.06_[2015.12.03_04.21.29].png")
>>13567606
>They get damaged all the time, so I'm not even going to bother refuting that point
This demonstrates that you're an arrogant imbecile who, by "not even bothering to refute", doesn't know what the fuck is talking about. Unlike you, dipshit, I've got solid information from watching the show.
Kira and Athrun face the druggies on episodes 38, 39, 40, 43, 44, 45, 46, 49 (Calamity destroyed by Justice's METEOR saber, Forbidden destroyed by Duel's saber) and 50 (Raider destroyed by Duel with Buster's cannon).
Of those encounters, they only do damage on the druggies' Gundams a grand total of FOUR times. Only one of them by Kira:
>40: Justice cuts Raider's hammer
>44: Justice cuts Forbidden's scythe and damages its shields. Uses its shield to bounce Calamity's chest cannon back at it.
>46: Freedom cuts Calamity's bazooka.
![Mobile Suit Gundam SEED - 39.mkv_snapshot_07.16_[2015.12.03_04.23.31].png](https://i.imgur.com/lmOeDRr.jpg "Mobile Suit Gundam SEED - 39.mkv_snapshot_07.16_[2015.12.03_04.23.31].png")
>>13580813
There's also this shot of Freedom shooting at Forbidden at point-blank with the railguns on episode 39. Which doesn't do shit, since they're equipped with Phase Shift, making them invulnerable to physical attacks.
>>13580813
You forgot when Athrun uses a boomerang to shred Raider's legs and wings off in 46. He doesn't proceed to finish him off because plot armor, but that's probably the worst damage done to them prior to their deaths.
![Mobile Suit Gundam SEED - 46.mp4_snapshot_10.57_[2015.12.03_13.50.43].png](https://i.imgur.com/UIX2jiY.jpg "Mobile Suit Gundam SEED - 46.mp4_snapshot_10.57_[2015.12.03_13.50.43].png")
>>13581815
>You forgot when Athrun uses a boomerang to shred Raider's legs and wings off in 46.
You're right, I forgot about that one. Five times, then.
Also, the boomerang only cuts Raider's right leg.
>>13580813
Why is the Duel so boss?
>>13581838
Yzak never fucked around like everyone else
is there a webm of how fucks up the Forbidden?
![Mobile Suit Gundam SEED - 46.mp4_snapshot_12.23_[2015.12.03_13.53.34].png](https://i.imgur.com/J4jlMlN.jpg "Mobile Suit Gundam SEED - 46.mp4_snapshot_12.23_[2015.12.03_13.53.34].png")
>>13581834
Subsequent take showing Raider with a missing leg, but arms and wings intact.
>>13581838
>>13581842
That's right, Yzak always went in for the kill, unlike >>13580817.
>>13580813
Yeah, and you also forgot when JUSTICE GUNDAM piloted by ATHRUN damages Forbidden's shields with it's beam boomerangs. Oh, what, you forgot?
Oh, and Justice Gundam also damaged Calamity Gundam while blocking it's chest beam cannon and diving into it while it was firing. Did you forget that too?
It doesn't help when you act like you're smart, and then omit details to make it sound like you are, you piece of shit.
>>13582040
>and you also forgot when JUSTICE GUNDAM piloted by ATHRUN damages Forbidden's shields with it's beam boomerangs.
>Justice Gundam also damaged Calamity Gundam while blocking it's chest beam cannon and diving into it while it was firing.
I clearly mentioned those in the post you're quoting. What gives, then?
>Oh, what, you forgot?
>Did you forget that too?
>It doesn't help when you act like you're smart, and then omit details to make it sound like you are, you piece of shit.
What details did I omit? Where? I honestly don't know where are you going with this. Is it a sophomoric attempt to elicit a provocation?
