Post Zeonic ideals.
>Zeon good
>anyone who likes Federation is probably gay
>freedom ain't free
>the ideals of zeon look like a giant green space bug
>Garma Zabi was a real man's man
>It's not zigzag, it's sieg zeon.
>>13545369
Does any those ideals include losing every single war you've fought?
>>13545388
We didn't lose anything yet, we've just been softening the federation up this whole time.
>Let's protest against the government by throwing molotovs into our neighbours house.
>>13545411
But you died way before the Federation did.
By all means you've just lost. Period.
>>13545464
We just pretended to lose. You'll see soon enough.
This thread reeks of false flagging.
Are you Feds upset that Thunderbolt is not the average feddie wank show you've enjoyed over the years?
>>13545478
Why are you posting with a trip when you aren't doing anything productive?
>>13545473
When? When Neo-Neo-Zeon comes and loses another war?
>>13545480
Because he's a zeekfag. He can't do anything productive.
>>13545478
Gundam's been Feddie wank to this point?
Are you sure you've been watching the same thing as the rest of us?
I mean, even at the best of times, it's less good vs evil and more inept bureaucrat vs murderous zealot.
>>13545480
This goes for...like 90% of /m/s tripfags.
>>13545478
This post reeks of false flagging.
Are you upset thatZZ is canon?
>>13545480
Why does it upset you so much to take the energy to make such a post?
>>13545514
How many shows feature the Federation as the protagonists and winning? Going by the logic of what a 'Zeonwank' is, it's only natural you use that same logic for 'Feddiewanks' Ergo, a vast majority of Gundam shows are Feddiewanks because they focus on the Federation.
>>13545524
I don't know what to chortle at more, the fact you can only parrot, or that the Kapool and Capule look nothing alike.
Also Unicron is part of one of the 3 non-canon timelines, so it's not like its evidence to use anyway.
>>13545369
What ARE Zeon's ideals that they fight so hard for independence? What rights and/or lifestyles are being denied to them under Earth rule?
>>13545558
Are you a god?
>>13545557
>the Kapool and Capule look nothing alike
You...are you legitimately this retarded, or are you just a master ruseman?
>>13545557
>How many shows feature the Federation as the protagonists?
That's not exactly wank. The main characters are in the Federation, but they pretty consistently have to deal with getting shat on by the higher brass.
That's like saying the movie Fires on the Plains is pro-Imperial Japan.
Then again, you're also defaulting to another person's faulty definition of wank to excuse your own, so it's clear logic's not worth pursuing here.
That said, Thunderbolt's just shaping up to be ridiculous edge for both factions.
>>13545567
Do you need me to point out the differences or are you just being stupid on purpose?Don't answer, you think ZZ is canon so clearly it's the latter.
>>13545572
The only way to fight absurdity is to match that absurdity as a means of exposing the folly of the original. You clearly get that, the people who cry 'Zeonwank' don't.
>>13545369
>the ideals of zeon look like a giant green space bug
The Feddies are Gunbuster?
>>13545558
Incoming (semi) non shitposting Zeon ideals.
Part of the problem is several groups with wildly varying ideals have taken the name for themselves
Pre-Zabi Republic of Zeon: Ending what was seen as illegitimate Earth domination over space colonies and eventually moving all of humanity off of Earth and into colonies to preserve its ecosystem and facilitate the progression of humanity as a space-faring race.
Zabi Occupied Government Principality of Zeon: Zeon mustard race is better than Earthnoids and he people of Zeon should control Earth and her colonies. Basically want to replace Earth Federation with themselves.
Haman's Neo-Zeon: Similar to Zabi Zeon but with Jewtypes as rulers of Earth and humanity
Char's Neo Zeon: Back to the original ideals of the Republic but radicalized. Char didn't see the collapse of the Earth Federation and humanity moving off of Earth on its own happening quickly enough so he was going to force it by destroying the Federation and making Earth uninhabitable for humans.
>>13545557
> I don't know what to chortle at more, the fact you can only parrot, or that the Kapool and Capule look nothing alike.
I don't know what to chortle at more, the fact that you can't grasp the implication or that you think you know more about the canonicity of Gundam and how many timelines it has than Tomino or Banrise.
Anyways, Tomino thinks ZZ is canon. Ask him about it.
>>13545585
Nigger, a couple very minor differences to not stop the fact that it's 99% the same suit.
Almost every part would be shared if you made models of the two and you know it.
>>13545595
So, basically,
>Pre-Zabi Republic of Zeon
"We want to fuck off and do our own thing."
>Zabi Occupied Government Principality of Zeon
"We Space Nazis!"
>Haman's Neo-Zeon
"We Jedi Space Nazis!"
>Char's Neo Zeon
"We want to fuck off and do our own thing, and force everyone else to join us."
That about right?
>>13545630
Char's Neo Zeon is more
>We want to fuck off and do our own thing, and fuck everyone who hasn't already decided to come do our thing
>>13545369
Why is Anavel Gato the most likable character in 0083?
>>13545585
A few slight differences, oh no, it can't be based on that, it's Totally different.
ZZ must not be cannon because of this, thank you for showing me the light you obnoxious brilliant twat!
Thank you for opening my eyes.
>>13545647
He doesn't commit high treason for dick and then get away with it
He doesn't forgive the above
He knows what carrots are and indiferent to them
Hey /m/ what's your favourite uc canon gundam series?
Mine is ZZ
>>13545658
Unicorn.I'm joking it's 0079.
>>13545658
Agreed.
Know what I like about it the most Anon?The fact that it's Canon. No matter how mad some autist gets.
>>13545630
Sort of, but the original Republic wanted everybody to do it too. It's just a little unclear how pro-active they were about it since there is very little info about pre-Zabi Zeon aside from Origin which contradicts the previous canon in a multitude of ways. To me it seems like they just thought humanity moving off of Earth and the dissolution of the Earth Federaton was an eventual inevitability and the natural progression of humanity like the early Marxists thought the collapse of capitalism and nation states into world communism was something that was inevitably going to happen. AT any rate pre-Zabi zeon didn't start any wars with Earth and they existed as an independent state for a while before Zeon Deikun died and the Zabis took over.
Also, all Zeons didn't want the Earth Federation to exist with the semi-exception of Haman, who according to an Episode of ZZ was willing to let certain Federation officials keep their power as long as they accepted her rule.
>>13545647
Keith, Burning and Mora are all more likable at the very least, though I'd argue just about the entire cast are more likable since Gato has no real character beyond "muh honor". Even in the Rebellion manga adaption he's a stiff board with a stick up it's ass about honor and nothing more.
>>13545636
Thing is, all of these various factions have. frankly, stupid and weird reasons for fighting. Haman and the Zabis are just racial supremacists, and OG flavor and Char are trying to foster some kind of vague evolutionary catalyst? If this was a matter of culture or oppression, that would make sense. But I don't actually recall any instances of the Federation exploiting or otherwise mistreating the colonies.
I'm not saying there haven't been sillier reason for war in real life, I'm just saying I don't get it.
>>13545557
0079
CCA
08th
![[OZC]MS IGLOO - The Hidden One Year War E03 'Dance of the Orbital Ghosts' [v2][720p]_Nov 24, 2015 10.48.26 AM.jpg](https://i.imgur.com/piBqXq6.jpg "[OZC]MS IGLOO - The Hidden One Year War E03 'Dance of the Orbital Ghosts' [v2][720p]_Nov 24, 2015 10.48.26 AM.jpg")
>>13545601
>Tomino thinks ZZ is canon
Your 'decisive evidence' is a mobile suit that has design parts of both a Kapool and Capule. Thanks for helping my case.
>>13545671
Also it's funny that you're getting this mad and can only go;
>mum autism
>>13545652
>>13545609
>It looks almost like this other unit, so that means it is that unit!
I assume the next thing you're going to do is insist the Dom and Rick Dom are the same unit?
>>13545647
Because it was a badly written show.
>>13545753
>>mum autism
>>13545753
The Rick Doms were literally converted Doms though.
>ZZ is still canon no matter how much a schizo screams on 4chan
;^)
>>13545753
Your decisive evidence for 0083 being canon according to your own weird view of what is canon "according to Tomino" (quotation marks very emphasized there) is the existence of a single mobile suit for a few seconds in the A New Translation trilogy.
Also, that shot in >>13545601 has no design elements of the Kapool from Turn-A, only the Capule from ZZ.
>>13545765
As opposed to figuratively converted Doms?
The internals for Dom and Rick Dom are so fundamentally different you can't call it a simple conversion.
>>13545788
You can clearly see the openings on the side are thinner, which is in line with the Kapool, rather than the wider ones of the Capule. You're so blinded by your bias, you aren't paying attention to details.
>Single Mobile Suit
Tomino put in a few mobile suits from 0083 into ANT, not sure what you're getting at.
Man this thread made watch the first few episodes of ZZ
It's pretty fun. I was a fool to skip it earlier. Why did I think skipping one the canon series was a good idea?
>>13545753
Okay I'm going to give you the benefit right now, and I'm going to ask you because I'm honestly interested, why you think it's not Canon.
What's your reasoning? Beyond the whole Kapool, Capule thing. IF you don't mind me asking I haven't seen it in full so excuse me if you've explained it to someone in another thread and I missed it.
>>13545856
>butt nut
>reasoning
lol no
>>13545814
I remember back when I was getting into gundam, I was on a roleplaying messageboard. Made that same goof "well why can't I have my faction upgrade all the Zakus into Hi-Zacks?"
The same reason you wouldn't 'upgrade' an F-8 into an F-15 just because they look vaguely alike.
Why are there GM III's in CCA if ZZ isn't canon?
>>13545572
>The main characters are in the Federation, but they pretty consistently have to deal with getting shat on by the higher brass.
To be fair, that happens in most Zeon-centric shows/stories, too.
Usually when a series focuses on a group of soldiers fighting on the Zeon side, it's about how they're simply average people caught up in a messy war machine run by idiots and infighting psychopaths, much like how Federation soldiers are average people caught up in a bureaucratic nightmare run by corrupt politicians.
Unless it's Missing Link, in which case, it's every Gundam fan's responsibility to shit on everything to do with the characters and plot.
>>13545896
Not to trample over the valid point you're trying to make, but the Crusader and Eagle look NOTHING alike.
Better one would be, I dunno, Hornet to Super Hornet.
>>13545896
>>13545896
>The same reason you wouldn't 'upgrade' an F-8 into an F-15 just because they look vaguely alike.
You mean F-16?
>>13545856
It's pretty simple. Movies take priority over TV series in Gundam canon. You see people referencing the MGS and SEED movies over their TV counter parts for evidence there. Only natural that the same thing done for Zeta movie. The big difference is that the Zeta movie's ending have some major changes compared to the TV ending. The two big things are Kamille is no longer mental disabled and Haman leaving the Earth Sphere. Because these two events run contradictory to the events of ZZ, it would be assumed that ZZ is no longer canon, along with any series that makes direct reference to ZZ.
Of course, how do the Zeta movies match up with Char's Counter Attack? Actually, pretty good. They never mention the first Neo-Zeon (Only Haman's movement, which could be easily be interpreted as Axis Zeon.), No characters introduced in ZZ make an appearance in CCA, Haman abandoned Axis which meant the Federation could lay claim and then sell it to Char, and Char's fate was not addressed at the end of the Zeta movies so it can be assumed he survived.
If anything the Zeta movies created the correct Gundam trilogy that focuses on development and conflict between Char and Amruo (MSG, Zeta and CCA) As opposed to people who just say the trilogy is MSG, Zeta and ZZ. When all ZZ did was just create a 50 episode series which boiled down to tying up a loose end left by Zeta (Axis Zeon.) To be fair, ZZ was originally supposed to matter and Char was going to return and lead a revolt against Haman, but that was scrapped when CCA was green lit and ZZ got the ending we know today.
So now that the major points have all been addressed, the only thing canon deniers can do is quibble over minor details ('This mobile suit didn't appear', 'Haman was a big dummy for leaving', etc) and just resorting to petty name calling.
Read the facts, and make your own call. Unless Tomino comes out and says one takes priority over the other, I'm holding that the movies are the canon timeline.
>>13545996
Well I thank you for exposing it but I disagree, I can see the reasoning but I hold that ANT is its own thing due to the ending, the differences with the MSG movie trilogy (a and seeds as well I assume never seen it) is that the differences as a whole were negligible, where as ANT has a whole new ending.
But either way thank you for explaining it and I'll admit its a far better reason than what I was expecting.
>>13545996
That's a pretty big argument to be based on "the shorter, more incomplete and often explicitly non-cannon versions of the story should be considered cannon because I say so".
>>13545814
>The internals for Dom and Rick Dom are so fundamentally different you can't call it a simple conversion.
Actually, aside from having a slightly less powerful reactor and a smaller propellant capacity due to having rocket thrusters in place of the gas-guzzling hover jets, literally everything else is the same. They even shared the same production lines.
>>13546007
I appreciate you remaining respectful even if we disagree.
Movie supremacy also has merit because the SEED movies actually retconned the death of a character who later appears in SEED Destiny.
In regards the hostile environment here in discussing what is canon. The ZZ faction on /m/ tends to be extremely easy to troll (Mainly because they've been the butt of most mean spirited jokes in Gundam for the past 20+ years.), so you see people use the 'ZZ is not Canon' as simple, but effective bait to get a reaction from them. It really is a sad state we're in since there is a lot of merit to the statement, but it gets lost in the shitposting.
>>13546029
Which leads to people like this who create strawman arguments and then nitpick over the quality of the movies.
Dakar and Kilimanjaro were considered unnecessary (Which they were in terms of pacing) and thus cut. Not much to debate there.
>>13546036
Removing two thermo nuclear reactors and all the parts necessary to have them operate isn't just a simple conversation. Heck the Rick Dom is almost a third lighter than the Dom (43.8 tons verses 62.6 tons, that's almost 20 tons, that's not something to balk at.) due to all the parts the Dom used being removed and converted into propellant storage as opposed to casing the reactors. They used the same factories to produce the Rick Dom since the frame was essentially the same. But the internals are a completely different beast. If you want to make the argument about conversions, you'd be better off talking about the Zaku II F and J types.
>>13546007
His idea is flawed though because ANT features A.O.Z mobile suits which in it's own right mentions ZZ, Glemy Faction etc
>>13546072
It's not a strawman argument.
Your entire argument is lynched on the fact that the movies are cannon; it is accepted as fact for your whole argument when it is the point of contention in the first place.
You're not making an argument but exploring your position assuming you are already correct.
>>13546072
Stupid tripfag, movies do not take precedence and I dare you to find anywhere that says it does.
Fucking cancer.
Let me guess, you also think Thunderbolt is AU.
>>13546072
Well I'll be honest I was expecting it to boil down to 'ZZ is bad' as the reason and using ANT as a catalyst to just reinforce your point, so while I don't agree I can like I said at least respect it.
As for the SEED thing, I mark that up as being needed for the Giant ass pull that was originally. And they realized that said thing mentioned in the end of the TV series was a big mistake on their part. But I can see where one could consider it as reinforcing movie canon over TV shows. That said one could argue Destiny a TV show pulled that Retcon before the movies ever did, albeit not with the helmet scene, but by him being alive to begin with.
That said I'm going to remain in the TV shows camp as canon most of the time over that.
>>13545814
You are confusing the Rick Dias with the Dom.
>>13545996
Unicorn continues on the plot left by ZZ. Not Zeta. ZZ. Not to mention it features a shitton of mobile suits from ZZ too.
Let me guess, now OVAs aren't canon too.
Fucking dumbass
>>13545557
>Also Unicron is part of one of the 3 non-canon timelines, so it's not like its evidence to use anyway.
Retarded tripfaggotry
Here we go again
>>13546080
Why would my argument not be based on if a show or movie is or isn't canon when that's what the debate is all about. I merely just gave my position and all the evidence to back it up. That's clearly a strawman on your part my intentionally misinterpreting my argument and points, and then attacking that.
Hence why you go
>the shorter, more incomplete and often explicitly non-cannon versions of the story should be considered cannon because I say so
While ignoring the evidence presented.
>>13546075
>>13546097
Timeline deviations would only matter if it happens before or during the retcons, not after. Anything past the Zeta movies that recognize the events of ZZ means said show/manga is a deviation where it's no longer canon. This is why Unicorn can't be considered canon either.
I don't see why you should get upset over consistency.
>>13546090
There's always going to be a method to my madness and I rarely just go 'It sucks, so it's not canon' which tends to be the general mindset these days.
Either way I respect your opinion even if I disagree with it.
>>13546092
I'm using the screenshot for debate separate from the Rick Dom/Dom one.
>>13546114
We're been going for a while, welcome to the party pal. Unless things are shaken up you have the following time lines
The Movie Timeline (The prime timeline)
The TV timeline (Contains series like ZZ and any shows that recognize it.)
The Origin timeline
Thunderbolt timeline (I'll reserve judgement based on how the animated plot goes, but for the most part in the Zakus used in Operation British, it looks to be another AT)
>>13545655
>high treason
Look, Nina's a bad character and her writing in the second half is abysmal, but let's not oversell this.
The only thing Nina could be said to have done wrong is that she kept Kou from murdering Gato.
An act that's not even THAT damaging considering he died later trying to escape anyway.
It had been said several times at that point. The colony couldn't be stopped. It had passed the point of no return and the Solar System failed to fry it. All Gato was doing at that point was adjusting where it would land. The deed was done before she even set foot on that colony.
Hell, by that point you could just as easily argue Kou did more to allow it to succeed than she did. He had the one piece of equipment that could stand a chance of distracting Gato. But, when Gato makes his run for the Solar System control ship, Kou is in the middle of his "MUH KELLY AND BURNING!" rampage on the Cima Fleet.
Context. I know /m/ tends to shun it since it makes Gundam less funny, but it IS worth paying attention to sometimes.
>>13546116
>Anything past the Zeta movies that recognize the events of ZZ means said show/manga is a deviation where it's no longer canon.
>you cannot use any evidence from anything that contains contradictory evidence
How do you come up with this sort of circular logic, man?
Wouldn't that leave ANT as the deviation considering it is literally the only thing that stands alone here?
>>13546124
Still wrong, keep shitposting autist
>>13546128
Well figuratively The movies trump TV series in priority regardless of timeline, thus the justification for the retcon.
>>13546116
>There's always going to be a method to my madness and I rarely just go 'It sucks, so it's not canon' which tends to be the general mindset these days.
But that's... your mindset. You haven't refuted any arguments. You haven't provided any source to your claims. Heck, you don't even have one person agreeing with you.
But keep the shitposting "arguments".
>>13546072
> The ZZ faction on /m/ tends to be extremely easy to troll (Mainly because they've been the butt of most mean spirited jokes in Gundam for the past 20+ years.), so you see people use the 'ZZ is not Canon' as simple, but effective bait to get a reaction from them. It really is a sad state we're in since there is a lot of merit to the statement, but it gets lost in the shitposting.
What's also kind of sad is that you talk like you're better than that but have (a) used the ZZ is not canon thing to shitpost yourself and (b) fell immediately for a ZZ is canon post.
Also, while the 0079 and SEED movies might be canon, the Turn-A, 00 and so on ones are never suggested to be by anyone ever. It being the case for some doesn't mean it's the case for all. There's also the fact that Tomino has tacitly admitted in interviews he only made the Zeta movies because Sunrise asked him too, while explicitly admitting that he had no interest in making a set of ZZ movies but again, would if they asked him too (the first implying the second by the wording used). The only reason the Zeta movies were made at all was simply to capitalize on the anniversary of Zeta itself for more money from kits and movies.
>>13546135
What about OVAs?
>>13546116
You clearly have no idea what a strawman is.
You've presented no evidence that does not rely on the movies being canon, which is the point of contention.
>>13546136
>More strawmen
I clearly listed events that occurred in ANT and CCA, the proof is there and listed. I can't do anything about it if you refuse to recognize the clear and concise evidence that's already presented outside of you resorting to 'nyaa, that doesn't count!'.
>>13546137
>used the ZZ is not canon thing to shitpost yourself
A claim you can't back up unless you make the flawed assumption that all 'not canon' posts are inherently shitposting.
>>13546137
There's been nothing to follow up the Turn-A movies and the 00 movie was a stand alone sequel to the 00 series. Also Tomino being forced to do it doesn't mean he was any less inclined to fix issues he saw with the series.
>>13546143
Dependent on what they're based on or if a series that has priority recognizes them. (Why 0083 is canon, but Unicorn is not.)
>>13546153
The movies and how they lock into the timeline is proof enough. Renaming things doesn't change those simple facts.
>>13546154
I swear i had 3 versions of this.
Found only 2
![4678027718_db190ba787[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/tpwI6nF.jpg "4678027718_db190ba787[1].jpg")
Screw Zeon.
>>13546157
I can probably could have worded some of these a bit better, but hard when you got to reply to a lot of posts.
I'll take it slow and steady.Zeon did nothing wrong
>>13546157
>And how they lock into the timeline
The only things set after it that they fit is CCA, though, ignoring shit too far off to have any direct relation either way.
>>13545996
>It's pretty simple. Movies take priority over TV series in Gundam canon
There is no such thing as a "Gundam Canon." There never has been. There has only been a case of "mainstream UC timeline" and "alternate versions of individual stories."
The mainstream timeline incorporates MSG (TV or Movie, either are compatible) Zeta Gundam (TV) ZZ, CCA, and Unicorn. There are alternate versions of various stories, such as the Zeta movies, the Origin manga, and the MSG novels that are considered divergent from the mainstream timeline. None of them lead into anything because they were never meant to; Japanese fans typically don't care about that shit.
And before you bring up "only animated = official" (and I figured I should clarify this for everybody else that still brings up that shit) that rule was ONLY meant to apply various mobile suits and mobile armors and how lore-friendly Sunrise considers them to be, NOT the stories they are from, and official =/= canon, anyway. That's why Harmony of Gundam, which was an effort to work with Bandai to create MS under Sunrise's supervision, only featured MS and not any accompanying stories.
Example; Sunrise actually considered the Forumla Wars 0122 story to be perfectly okay, but did not consider the RF versions of Zeon MS to be particularly lore-friendly and thus they are in the darker parts of the "grey area" of official recognition. Conversely, the Blue Destiny MS get a thumbs up and their story is considered fine, but the staff didn't like the GM Command showing up so early in the timeline, (which might be why Yuu and his team work their way up the GM ladder in the older manga, and the Marmot team starts out with the RGM-79[G] Pre-production GM in the newer manga retelling.)
So including 0083 MS doesn't mean dick. In fact, they apparently don't even show up in Tomino's storyboards for the scenes, according to toysdream at mechatalk, so it's probably just something the animators themselves put in for fun.
>>13545996
>Movies take priority over TV series in Gundam canon
except they don't and they never have
>>13546192
Is there any reason for unicorn to be considered as much a part of "Mainstream UC timeline" with the rest of the original content, though?
>>13546204
Can you think of any reason for it not to be beyond "I don't like it?"
Because that's Black Knight's method.
>>13545996
>Movies take priority over TV series in Gundam canon
No they don't. Where the fuck are you getting this?
>>13546212
It being made 20 years after the fact and not made by the same director or team as the original series' and movie, is a pretty direct reason.
There's no reason for Unicorn to be considered mainline but say, 0083 to not.
>>13546157
> There's been nothing to follow up the Turn-A movies and the 00 movie was a stand alone sequel to the 00 series
00 had compilation movies that, to my knowledge at least, didn't do anything to retcon the series despite some new animation and set up the sequel movie. G-Reco takes place after Turn-A according to Tomino and the movies are never suggested to take precedence over the series in regards to them. There's no major shared stuff to implicate, but then, there's not a huge amount of material between Char's Counterattack and ZZ either for instance.
It's been a while since I've seen Black_Knight in action. Always hilarious to see people try to argue with him too
>>13546238
it's a double-edged sword
sure he's the most effective ruseman, but at what cost when he can't give up the fight after they've paid the troll toll
>>13546257
Once he's into that boy's hole, there's no getting him out.Wait...was that hole or soul?
>>13546154
>>13546160
>>13545814
> You can clearly see the openings on the side are thinner, which is in line with the Kapool, rather than the wider ones of the Capule.
Yea, that's pretty clearly just a difference in the actual art in those particular instances, something that changes pretty regularly during the shows themselves to fit the needs of the current animation. The skirt piece having holes in the Capule and no holes in the Kapool is a part of the design though and consistent across animation in both shows. And in the case of G-Reco, it chose to draw it as having the holes of ZZ.
Which only makes sense considering that literally every other suit there is from the early UC period. Sticking a single Turn-A suit in there among them would be really odd and if you honestly think it's supposed to be anything but a ZZ suit then you are simply being obtuse and refusing to accept that it's a ZZ suit in among a load of other suits from that era simply because it's awkward for you.
You can try and take the high ground all you want, but in this instance you're obviously just trying to make the facts fit your theory rather than accepting that something is running counter to it and that your theory might in fact not be that solid.
> Tomino put in a few mobile suits from 0083
My apologies then, they're all quick cameos though. I'd say they're clearly meant to be nothing more, but I know who I'm talking to so what's the point. In fact, the above is clearly meant to be nothing more than that either, but hey, if we're going to act like one validates 0083, then it applies equally to all instances so G-Reco clearly indicates ZZ is canon and it's just just a cameo for the sake of it.
>>13546216
Since CCA has Core Booster from movies, not a G-fighter
>brother asks what Gundam is about
>tell him about Universal Century
>he immediately asks how Zeon could drop colonies if they're on the Spacenoids' side
Space Lenin >his son, space Che>clone of space Che> regent bitch> space Hitler and his dad, space Hindenburg/Stalin
>>13546521
Then... Die!
>>13546220
Both are considered part of the mainstream continuity. I was just listing the primary ones.
>>13546157
Proof. Proof. Proof. Back up you fucking positions, you little cockmuncher. Jesus fucking christ.
>A claim you can't back up
My god. You, of all people, taking someone to task for not backing up their claims? You are a blight, a festering boil on the ass of the internet, oozing pus with every vile motion.
>>13547034
>Expecting Black_Knight to debate in good faith
You poor deluded fool you.
>>13545753
That red hair girl from Igloo must of soft while fucking.
>>13546540
>no freedom without sacrifice
>>13546540
the colonies belonged to feddie lapdogs. only pure zeon supporting colonies were spared cause they were allies.
Anyone have that essay on why Zeon was shitty? The one with Gato and the backdtory of 0079.
>>13547034
>>13547121
>>13546212
Yes, let's ignore all the evidence that ANT fits better into the Amuro and Char continuity than ZZ and just go with the 'I don't consider it canon because I don't like it'. It's more of a 'I don't like your argument, so I'm going to ignore it and create a blatant strawman to have people dogpile on.' This is /v/irgin tier shenanigans you're trying to pull here..
But I stick to my points and feel even more confident since you can't refute them or are so weak minded you cling to the faulty counter points of others..
>>13546192
Pretty sure you're just using semantics for canon in that first part.
Regardless, listening to Bandai alone creates a Macross Tier cluster fuck, better look at the source material, or better yet, the directors to get the correct timeline. Speaking of Tomino, he still hasn't said on record what ANT is. You can use all your hearsay all you want, you lack solid proof.
>>13546379
Now you're just saying its an animation error that it has design parts from both suits? That cuts both ways there slick. I can just claim the holes on the crotch are an error as well so it's a Kapool.
>>13546221
There's your problem, for the most part some of the the movies don't make changes where you can tell if it's TV or movie specific. MGS and SEED did have enough for that.
>>13547795
>Feddie fags are such sheep they have to rely on a copy pasta, not only a copy pasta, but a screen cap of a copy pasta.
The Feddie fags are truly exhausted.
>>13547917
> Now you're just saying its an animation error that it has design parts from both suits? That cuts both ways there slick. I can just claim the holes on the crotch are an error as well so it's a Kapool.
Patently untrue given that, as I pointed out and you ignored for convenience, the crotch plate difference is consistent across the different shows where the gap in the side changes not only episode to episode in each show, but from scene to scene. Hell, from frame to frame at times.
You also ignored the occam's razor application: that there'd be no point in putting in a Turn-A suit among a load of early UC suits. It patently has to be a ZZ suit given what the other suits are. There's no reason for it not to be. Something you've always ignored or brushed off when someone points this out, because again, it's inconvenient for your theory. And if your theory has to ignore evidence it's usually a sign that it's wrong.
>>13545369
Fuck off Zabi ass-lickers.
You have perverted Zeon Zum Daikun's ideals and dreams of newtype orgy.
>>13547917
Will you ever stop shitposting about ZZ everywhere you go?
>>13547917
>Yes, let's ignore all the evidence that ANT fits better into the Amuro and Char continuity than ZZ
First off, fuck you.
Okay. Let's start with the most obvious thing here: at the end of ANT, Axis Zeon leaves the Earth Sphere. This makes the events of Char's Counterattack IMPOSSIBLE, because that movie, if you haven't seen it, involves Char trying to drop Axis on the Earth. Kind of hard to do that when it's all the way over in the asteroid belt.
This has been brought up before, in other threads. I distinctly remember that you claimed that they left Axis behind when they left. That is stupid.
That is really, really stupid.
Axis is where all of Axis Zeon fucking lives. That's why they call it AXIS Zeon. Without Axis, all those Zeon ships leaving the Earth Sphere will make it partway to the asteroid belt before they all STARVE TO DEATH. Because they left their ONLY SOURCE OF FOOD behind for no fucking reason.
You wanna argue that Axis Zeon signed a suicide pact condemning them all to a slow, agonizing death, go right ahead. I fully expect you to, in fact.
And so, in conclusion, fuck you,
>>13547917
but the movies still aren't canon
>deik*nists
>k*rns
absolutely icky
>>13548370
All you can do is cry animation error when the holes remain consistent
Also if you're going to use Occam's Razor, if the Kapool and Capule are the same as many of your ill behaved compatriots claim, what makes you think people millenniums will know the difference?There's also the possibility that Axis Zeon already developed the Capule in prelude to their invasion of Earth and few units that were produced at Axis were dumped off when Haman's forces left the Earth Sphere.
>>13548395
Fact posting is not shit posting. It shouldn't matter if ZZ is not canon. It still exists and people aren't banned from discussing it, it's just not in the main timeline. I don't see why so many people get upset about that.
>>13550022
It's you again trips dubs. We already went over this. First off, Char said Haman abandoned Axis. Second, if Haman was able to secure safe passage for Mineva Zabi, to Earth of all places, you can't dismiss that she made sure that the civilians of Axis were not given safe passage back to Side 3.
As for why she'd go back into space? To tie up the loose end of what happens to her. Is it ill advised? Most probably. Is it her worst mistake? No, compared to chasing Judah and letting some rank and file officer start a rebellion which split her forces in two and then have her commit suicide in the end. I'd say that's a lot worse than cutting loses and falling back to the Asteroid Belt. Who knows in the prime timeline they might touch on the idea that Axis established a base within the Asteroid belt and that's what Haman went to. But that's conjecture. Either way we do know Haman left with her forces, while leaving Axis and Mineva in the Earth Sphere.
But keep crying.
>>13550090
If something in the prime timeline is created to contradict them, then they won't be canon. Until then, they are.
>>13550508
>you can't dismiss that she made sure that the civilians of Axis were not given safe passage back to Side 3.
And where does it say that in the movie? What's that? It doesn't, and you're just pulling stuff out of your ass again? Okay.
>>13550508
> All you can do is cry animation error when the holes remain consistent
No, they don't.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBTkH_Wz2dw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJQPDaPgwQU
Those two videos alone have a good bit of variation in the width of the holes, unless we're talking about different holes in the sides. I'm assuming you mean the holes the arms extend from, but god knows there are plenty of other holes in it's sides you could mean. Official art even includes the same wider holes with more detailed innards in the Kapool reminiscent of the Capule.
> if the Kapool and Capule are the same as many of your ill behaved compatriots claim, what makes you think people millenniums will know the difference?
Because occam's razor has nothing to do with the characters in the show and everything to do with the guy making thing in the first place, who definitely knows the difference. Knows it enough to have the characters in Turn-A use a remodel of the Capule, which should be enough to validate ZZ existence in the canon on it's own since the Capule exists nowhere else and has no other reason to exist outside of them
> b-b-b-but Axis Zeon could have made them
Sure. They didn't though. It's never mentioned and there's no reason to assume it beyond you wanting them to have so that you can keep your theory. The idea that the Kapool is just a redone Capule from ZZ is a much simpler explanation that requires less assumptions and therefor is more likely to be true.
>>13550621
There's also the fact the Phenex Gundam appears in G-Reco. Which canonizes Unicorn. Which canonizes ZZ. Tomino might not have directed it (I don't honestly know), but he didn't actually direct every episode of the series either - that doesn't make the episodes he didn't direct non-canon. He's still the director of the series, which includes the Past to the Present short and would need his approval to have it made. And it's not surprising he would give it, since Unicorn is one of the few Gundam shows he hasn't worked on that he's commented directly on, which was to say that he thought it was well made after watching a few episodes (including the final one). He either chose to include Unicorn in G-Reco or approved it's inclusion, so either way it's canon as far as he's concerned - though I doubt he's really bothered about it personally.
Not that he gets to decide canon anyway. That's Sunrise. Tomino created Gundam but he created it as a work for hire. He's never owned it and so has never had the right to decide canon for the same reason that Stan Lee doesn't get to decide the canon status of modern Spider-man stuff and George Lucas doesn't get to decide the canon status of modern Star Wars stuff. They don't own it, Disney does, so what the creators want or say has no real bearing on the matter.
>>13550508
>they are.
[citation needed]
How do we get Black Knight permabanned?
Now why would you delete the picture you posted? It's just a Kapool. Why would you post something that you're confident of and then back track on it? It's not like it has anything that would contradict everything you're trying to post.
Regardless the Kapool is a separate machine and if you're going to be flippant about my conjecture with infantile studding, I'll treat everything you say with the same level of respect.
>>13550625
Hardly, did the Phenex Gundam appear in the Unicorn OVAs? It didn't? Well that answers your question. Unless you feel so desperate to have five degrees of separation.
As for the can of worms of saying Sunrise decides what's canon, their stance is if its animated it exists. So then you created the whole mess of problems that goes beyond even Macross where you just created a multiverse. Are you got to pitch a Gundam version of Crisis on Infinite Earths next?
>>13550923
You want me to get a citation for green text?
>>13551477
You don't. All my posts are well within the rules and I don't troll so you can't say I'm in violation of global rule 3. More so, you can't just demand people get banned because you don't like them. If you want a place where you can suppress opinions you disagree with, perhaps you should opt to relocate to Reddit or Neogaf where there is a hive mind of what is and isn't accepted and dissenting opinions are purged.
>>13551799
> Now why would you delete the picture you posted?
Because I posted the wrong picture. The picture I posted accidentally isn't official art. It appears to be a model from one of Dynasty Warriors: Gundam games. Which Sunrise is barely involved in. The two shows keep the waist consistent, as does the stuff in art books related to the show. One or two of Bandai's models include the Capule style waist on the Kapool, but that's about it.
> did the Phenex Gundam appear in the Unicorn OVAs? It didn't? Well that answers your question.
It doesn't need to. It's a Unicorn variant and Unicorn is the only reasonable reason for it to exist.
> Unless you feel so desperate to have five degrees of seperation
You mean like you and "maybe Axis Zeon invented the Kapool and just never told anybody or did anything with it"?
> the can of worms of saying Sunrise decides what's canon, their stance is if it's animated it exists
So what? It works. You might not like how it works but that doesn't mean that it's wrong. They get to decide what's canon, not you.
> Are you going to pitch a Gundam version of Crisis on Infinite Earths next?
No, I'm not like you and going to pretend I'm suddenly the expert on another company's property and it's canon. Or that 0079's movie trilogy coming out a few years before Zeta and SEED's special edition movies coming out a while before Destiny is somehow an exact precedent to the A New Translation movies somehow retconning two twenty year old television shows and a forthcoming OVA out of existence (Sunrise knew they wanted an OVA before they even commissioned the novels) just to somehow better set up a movie made 15 years before hand than the thing that already leads in to and which it's retconning out of existence according to you - a laughably complex and unnecessary sequence of events since it changes nothing about the movie it's somehow supposed to be setting up better.
>>13552810
If you want a demonstration of why people think you're a trolling idiot by the way Black_Knight, then just look at the one time Tomino did express some opinion on events in his shows and that G-Reco takes place after Turn-A. Lots of people didn't like that he said this is the case (myself included) and think it's kind of stupid and doesn't really make sense. Some people suspect he's trolling or that he's senile or whatever. There was a lot of arguing for a few weeks afterwards and then people accepted it and moved on. It might be stupid but that doesn't mean it isn't true and if that's what he wants then that's the way it is. And people can and, in general have accepted that despite their personal opinion.
After several years you are still literally the only person saying Zeta and ZZ aren't canon though and that only the movies are. In fact, even the ZZ isn't canon trolls have all died away because the trend passed. You are, now. literally the sole bearer of that wave of trolling, whether you think so or not. It's not because people just can't accept the truth. It's because no-one has any reason to believe what you say is true since there's literally nothing to actually indicate so at the end of the day and you're just trying to push your own personal preference for how things work best.
zakrello in zeta
movies arent cannon
deal w it nerds
>>13552810
Pretty sure Sunrise wants to make sure that their characters and models are consistent, the fact that they put the holes on the Capule proves it's a trivial matter. Meanwhile you can have an main universe version of Unicorn out there that's similar, but not the same as the Novel or current animated ones. Fail to see you five degrees of separation point. Axis preparing for a a terrestrial invasion and having aquatic suits ready for a day one attack makes more sense then you give credit for. But since the whole invasion was mothballed, they were never deployed. Or are you going to say the Galbaldy didn't exist because the original wasn't deployed in combat either? So what? Then everything is canon. And if things contradict that means nothing is canon. You just want Chaos. Your claim betrays your words since you keep saying ZZ is canon. Also doesn't matter how long it takes to fix something.
>>13552823
Well that's a nice wall of text where you manage to abuse the term literally in second paragraph, and you don't use it correctly once. Regardless your whole anecdote is irrelevant to the conversation at hand outside of you acting as pretentious as possible.
I should rightfully flip the tables and note you're the only one arguing your fruitless position now, perhaps just maybe, you're the troll, and the other trolls seeing as their bait has failed once again, have given up. And now you're the only one left here. One of the more disgusting things about /m/ is that they never hold to principle or they flow onto the next fad. This is why you see so many weak minded people support bugfags or this shift in taste over series. Regardless, speaking the truth in the face of overwhelming odds and intimidation is often the bravest act you can do. I have no reason to back down since the facts are on my side and unless Tomino comes out and says the Movies aren't canon, it changes nothing.
Your persistence is commendable, most trolls would give up by now. Have a smily.
I'd be more sympathetic to the Zeon movement if they were on land.
Because at the end of the day, a nation is an ideal, soil is just soil. But a space colony isn't the same thing, someone had to build that thing. It's like tenants attacking their landlord because they don't want to pay rent on the building.
>>13554305
what is your "MUHCANON" timeline anyways? MSG>CCA and thats it? why do you even watch gundam?
Literally everything is canon because Turn A says so. It doesn't matter what anyone else says because Turn A happens, no matter how impossible.
>>13554340
remember that the first settlers of colonies didn't choose to live there. its more like a ghetto/concentration camp than an apartment that someone chooses to live there. and living under military law, not being able to decide how to self govern. shit was fucked.
>>13547917
>Regardless, listening to Bandai alone creates a Macross Tier cluster fuck
So? They own the rights to the show, it's their decision.
>>13554364
>remember that the first settlers of colonies didn't choose to live there
Yeah, if the colony was Australia. Most other places the first settlers were soldiers and people hoping to become rich in the new world.
>its more like a ghetto/concentration camp than an apartment
A very nice concentration camp which was in no way enduring hardship due to the rule it always had?
>and living under military law, not being able to decide how to self govern.
The military law worked, and why do you need self-governance if the system you have in place is already beneficial towards you?
It doesn't matter how much a person argues otherwise or sees it from their point of view or any of that.
In the end Zeon is THE BAD GUYS. That has been the case ever since 0079, they were the army that opposed the side the hero was on. No amount of thinking they were in the right doesn't change that they aren't the good side. It doesn't matter how sympathetic they are, Zeon is synonymous with villains.
>>13554371
but the space colonists where people forced to immigrate from earth. Conditions in early colonies where pretty bad and range from eating rat hotdogs to living in slum like housing. and if the governance worked then why was there dissents in side 3? side 3 was the most neglected side by feds and got the least support.
>>13554385
yeah but every oyw work since MSG then paints them in a different light. and even MSG you had noble and heroic people in zeon. the point is that the conflict isn't so black and white. but for me i see the people of zeon as noble, their leaders not very much and i feel the same about feds, their people are noble but the leadership are corrupt dicks like the zabis besides general revil.
>>13554392
>but the space colonists where people forced to immigrate from earth.
Because most of earth had become a shithole, the colony was a better life.
>Conditions in early colonies where pretty bad and range from eating rat hotdogs to living in slum like housing
Which was not the case by the time of the war at Side 3
>and if the governance worked then why was there dissents in side 3
Ignoring the fact that a country could be literally heaven on earth and there'd still be dissidents because people are never happy, it's because Deikun was spreading his ideals of Contolism in Munzo.
>side 3 was the most neglected side by feds and got the least support.
Munzo was not the most neglected, the only thing they said was that it's on the dark side of the moon. Not to mention it got extra colonies after the war to deal with its overcrowding problem.
>>13554406
Yeah and not even nazi was a hitler-worshipping SS member, but it didn't change whose side they were on.
>>13554411
not every*
>>13554345
MSG movies > Zeta Movies > CCA > Late UC + all the side OVAs and material that fits in.
It's not rocket science
>>13554365
So you want a clusterfuck where if everything is canon, nothing is due to all the contradictions? I can't stop you, but at the same time I can't comprehend why you'd want that.
>>13554385
>In the end Zeon is THE BAD GUYS
Way to miss one of the core points of Gundam with that black and white viewpoint
>>13554702
>So you want a clusterfuck where if everything is canon, nothing is due to all the contradictions
That already exists because everything, even literally impossible shit like AU, all is canon because Turn A is the end of everything. Except G-Reco.
>>13554702
>Way to miss one of the core points of Gundam with that black and white viewpoint
You know why I side with the Federation? BECAUSE I LIVE ON THE FUCKING EARTH.
>>13554763
Also to add on because I posted too soon
Fuck that. In war it doesn't matter if the same side is made up of the same kind of people as you. They are the ENEMY. Their side's goal is to destroy or subjugate you. Your continued existence depends on their death, there is no room for sympathy for your enemies. Of course they're just like us, people growing up somewhere else doesn't magically make them not human. But it's because they're just like us that we know they have to be destroyed when the guns have been drawn. That is how the real world is.
>>13554702
>MSG movies > Zeta Movies > CCA > Late UC + all the side OVAs and material that fits in.
if anything that is not canon its the fucking compilation movies turbo nerd.
also tomino disowned all the late uc shit he did too.
this isn't choose your own adventure. also the ovas create more continuity problems than anything else.
>>13554763
>BECAUSE I LIVE ON THE FUCKING EARTH.
yeah but what if they forced your ass to move to space? still gonna wave that fed flag faggot? dumbass earthnoid.
>>13554817
>earthnoid.
Oh, you mean the thing you are too?
>>13554817
I live in Jersey. What could a colony possibly have that's worse?
>>13554823
no you dumbfuck im here chilling on side 3 you faggot. but honestly is space colonization was a real thing i'd buy the first one way ticket off this shitty rock with its shitty leadership.
>>13554835
>with its shitty leadership.
>implying another government that is still ruled by flawed humans would be different
>>13554846
>spacenoids
>flawed humans
but really think of a "moonraker" type of plan
SMELLY
DUMB
ZEON
SCUM
>these assmad fags arguing over the canocity of Gundam
Lol, who the fuck cares. Just take the shows on their own and enjoy
but the movies aren't canon
>>13554831
You could live in Detroit, or Alabama.
>>13554807
>also tomino disowned all the late uc shit he did too.
When?
>>13554763
As opposed to what? It being figuratively impossible? The Black Hole theory was established to answer how all the different Gundam timelines merge into CC. The big difference between the AUs and UC is that the Zeta movies retconned series that already existed. Unless you want to subscribe to multiple timelines within the UC itself.
>You know why I side with the Federation? BECAUSE I LIVE ON THE FUCKING EARTH.
Enjoying being the pawn of the elites? The closest example to real life for you is a poor person voting for Republican economic policies in America.
>>13554371
>if the colony was Australia. Most other places the first settlers were soldiers and people hoping to become rich
The old men who want off the White Base in Mobile Suit Gundam say that they were forced to moved to the colonies against their will and thought they'd never set foot on earth again.
>A very nice concentration camp which was in no way enduring hardship
This is actually true. For all the talk about being forced to leave earth and forced to live in colonies, the colonies are almost always shown to be really nice places. Nice suburbs, rolling hills, forests, etc. The worst places shown were Green Noa 2 (which was an industrial plant) and some run-down apartment buildings in Shangrila which was still shown to be mostly rolling hills, grass, clean air, etc, and the only bad thing actually mentioned about it was that the administration lazily left the environmental controls set to "spring" all year round. Just think about that....eternal spring...how awful, right?
But that wasn't what the colonists were complaining about, anyway. Actually most of them *weren't* complaining. Only Side 3 and Side 6 were overtly objecting to their appointed government and demanding the ability to choose their own leaders from amongst themselves rather than being ruled by people who lived on earth.
And the EF did allow Side 3 to be autonomous, but forbade all the other sides to trade with them. But the colony cylinders were all designed to be self supporting anyway, so no big deal.
Ultimately the ideological core of Zeon's "War for Independance" wasn't them trying to gain independence from the EF, it was the belief that humanity should be independent of Earth, and was opposed by the "earth-born elite" who not only started the whole mess by forcing the other 9 billion people off earth but were too afraid to leave their comfortable nest and go out into space themselves.
>>13545753
What's your opinion on Unicorn?
>>13555053
>Enjoying being the pawn of the elites?
>This from someone who supports a state with a stratified social structure with literal aristocrats at the top.
Hypocrisy thy name is Zeon.
Your doorbell rings. There's a Feddie recruitment officer and a Zeon recruitment officer at your door. The Feddie has a series of delicious cheese for you from his creamery. The Zeon officer has jams and jellies along with some vegetables from his garden for you.
Who do you choose?
So if the Capule and Kapool are not the same thing, does that mean that a Borjanon and a Zaku are different machines?
>>13555485
what's this from?
>>13555511
Fed.
Because I'm on Earth. We proceed to kill and eat the seek,as their space flesh goes great with pepper jack
>>13555806
Gihren Assassination Plot.
>>13546221
I'm confused about how G-Reco could possibly be post-Turn A, given its place in the timeline, general development, and knowledge of the UC era.
>>13555984
>how G-Reco could possibly be post-Turn A, given its place in the timeline
There's your problem right there. Its place in the timeline IS post-∀.
>knowledge of the UC era
Some time prior to the Moonlight Butterfly the infamous "black history" footage was found and the civilization of the time realized how many calendar resets had happened in the last 8000 years because man's warlike nature keeps bringing near-apocalypses. They figure out what order these various eras of history happened in and, for the sake of convenience and simplicity, count time from the beginning of the Universal Century instead of remembering how many years were in each era and what order they go in. When they say "the mistakes of the Universal Century" they're referring to all of Gundam, not just 0001UC through 0223UC.
>>13555343
It's part of the non-canon TV timeline since it makes references to ZZ. Not that good either since under the 'definition' of wanks, it's a standard Feddiewank show regardless of what detractors would cry. The incing on the cake is the SEED/Wing level of plot armor and stupid amount of UNDERSTANDING.
>>13555485
First, canonality is questioned because it makes foreshadowing of ZZ. technically it can still exist in the main timeline though.
Two, that's the Principality.
Three, the Federation caste system is much worse. There's not only disenfranchisement of the colonies, but of their own citizens, why else would Africa and parts of Asia side with Zeon? Hell, using the analogy, at least the commoners and nobility are in the same room for Zeon, the 'nobility' of the Federation wouldn't even be there and have their own separate theater.
>>13556016
Could you please take that stick out of your ass about "canon?" If something is "canon," does that mean it's somehow superior?
Do you think ANT is better than the Zeta TV series?
>>13556030
Yes, he does. And that is precisely why he thinks the series should not be canon.
>>13556016
The Federation is a democracy, dumbass. Even Space Hitler agrees.
>>13556030
Being canon doesn't make it better or worse, it's just what takes priority. It's everyone else that 'has the stick up their ass' in regards to what is canon since they're getting unreasonably upset over it.
Such as this person
>>13556041
Terrible slander on your part, I already stated my well thought out reasoning as to why the movies take priority. I ask that you refrain from intentionally distorting my position in the future.
>>13556045
>democracy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdkM_eSYXdw
>>13556045
Democracy and massive abuse of the population aren't opposed to one another. You just need good propaganda and government mechanics to control the outcomes of the elections.
>>13556048
>well thought out
So far you have only given one (ONE!) piece of evidence supporting your claim.
Give me some evidence that says the Zeta movies supersede the TV show. Oh wait, you can't, because there isn't any!
>>13556045
It's a representative democracy. And there are more districts on earth than there are colonies, despite there being only two billion people on earth and 9 billion in the colonies. And the rulers of the colonies are appointed by the Assembly, who are elected by people in the districts on earth.
That's the whole problem: it's a democracy of, by, and for the earth-born elite. The colonies have no say in this "democracy", because they're the lower caste.
>>13556056
>He's so intellectually lazy, he has to use 3DPD smug images
I want to assume you aren't clinically retarded so you can find the post I made here that gives a general overview of why the Zeta movies take priority. But my confidence in that assessment is slipping and I'll need to spoonfeed you information that's already in this thread.
Oh and you still haven't refuted that piece of evidence I've submitted.
>>13556045
See
>>13556059
That also extends to people on Earth as well seeing as Africa, parts of Asia and North America had no problems supporting Zeon in their war for independence.
>>13555328
>The old men who want off the White Base in Mobile Suit Gundam say that they were forced to moved to the colonies against their will and thought they'd never set foot on earth again.
Oh, I thought you meant the real life new-world colonies of the 17th century we had with how you worded it.
>>13556045
Democracy is a horrible form representing the interests of the general population. Here is a good example. 92% of the US population, including 92% of all gun owners supported background checks prior to all gun sales. But the United States Congress failed to act on what the vast majority of its citizens demanded because of how the system was set up to cater to the will of ruling class (The gun manufactures in this instance) rather than the people.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/211321-poll-most-gun-owners-support-universal-background-checks
>>13555328
>Just think about that....eternal spring...how awful, right?
Well I suppose if you had spring allergies it would be an unending hell.
>>13555984
>I'm confused about how G-Reco could possibly be post-Turn A
Because Tomino said so. He said it takes place 500 years after Turn A.
>>13556016
Do you just plain not like ZZ?
>>13556083
The only statement made about absolute canonicity in the franchise where Sunrise-Bandai said "if it's been animated, it's official".
Ignoring the fact that that's designed to apply to mobile suits, your only argument is
>Regardless, listening to Bandai alone creates a Macross Tier cluster fuck
Which basically means that you don't want to cite it as proof because Bandai doesn't care too much. about the implications of a statement. But much like "Deckard is a replicant", the thoughts and feelings of the audience are irrelevant. If that's how they say it works, that's how it works, and to say Tomino would disagree brings the burden of proof upon you as you're the one asserting the claim. You may not like listening to Bandai alone, but when Bandai is the only one who actually definitively says anything on the matter, then they're the only ones you CAN listen to without using headcanon.
>>13556110
>>13556056
Or Republicans still dictating economic policy after their positions proved to be disastrous for the economy in the last decade.
>>13556083
>Dissing the Addams Family
Just when I thought you couldn't sink any lower...
Also, your "evidence" is
>The movies are always canon, therefore the Zeta movies are canon
Are the Turn A movies canon? Are the 00 movies (the compilation ones, not AotT) canon? If yes, does that mean that Saji's sister is still alive, because we never saw her die in the compilation movies.
>CCA doesn't explicitly say the events of ZZ happened
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
C'mon, I have never taken a debate class in my life, and even I know you're full of shit.
>>13556135
Also to add on because I didn't think of this until now, WHAT Macross-tier clusterfuck are you even referring to? Macross is one of the easiest timelines to follow. Everything in it happened, in order, with the exception of Macross II because it had no involvement from any of the orirignal Studio Nue creators and was purely a Big West production. So that aside
Macross Zero
SDF Macross
Macross Plus
Macross 7
Macross Frontier
Macross Delta
this is not a complicated timeline. The only time it had a show that wasn't the very next show in the timeline following the previous one made was Zero.
>>13556142
I'm insulting your lack of taste in reaction images. Granted Addams Family is on the same tier as Scooby Doo.
Your counter claims have no merit. With what I've seen, nothing in the Turn-A movies or 00 movies run counter to anything that appears later in their respective timelines. in this case there is 'nothing' after Turn-A and Trailerblazers to my knowledge doesn't touch upon what you mentioned.
Also absence of evidence absolutely becomes evidence is it is systematic. And the fact that the Zeta movie plugs up the only major plot hole that happens if you jump from Zeta to CCA while at the same time CCA makes no ture mention or reference to ZZ is solid proof that the movies are their own continuity since they lock together nice and tight. It's not my fault if you want to deny facts and then resort nitpicking at strawmen.
>>13556143
You seem to forget Macross: Do You Remember Love, which is what throws everything amok. Go on, try to fit that in, but keep in mind what the director said about it and make sure you remember that when trying to work everything in.
Have fun.And I'm not going to spoonfed you[ if you decide to feign or are actually stupid./spoiler]
>>13556122
ZZ is not a good series, but it's hardly the worst Gundam. Also trying to project the 'I don't like it, so it's not canon' onto me doesn't work because while SEED Destiny is absolute garbage, it's still canon.
>>13545369
What has Mars Zeon been up to lately?
>>13556185
They're chilling with Matt Damon
>>13554340
The fatties who run the Earth federation didn't build the colonies, the construction workers for the colony corporation did, and I bet a lot of them stayed there when they were done.
>>13556110
Fuck off anti-gunner. 92% of the people could agree to ban "hate speech" and shooting it down would still be the right decision.
>>13556204
Nice tyranny of the minority you got there gun nut.
>>13556209
Yeah "tyranny" to do my own business and own my own property without you sticking your fat nose in it. Peasants can't own weapons, free men can.
>>13556217
It's still tyranny of the minority no matter how you wrap it up since it ignores the will of the majority. That's the problem with democracy. It only works when you get what you want.
>>13556223
As opposed to tyranny of the majority? Ever heard of inalienable rights? If 92% of the population voted to make the other 8% their slaves I guess that would be dandy right?
>>13556232
> If 92% of the population voted to make the other 8% their slaves I guess that would be dandy right?
Thank you for proving my point with the flaws of absolute democracy.
>>13556184
>You seem to forget Macross: Do You Remember Love, which is what throws everything amok.
No it doesn't, 7 explicitly says it's an in-universe movie telling the historical events of the tv series. It's mentioned several times and once Max says "it didn't exactly go the way that movie said"
>>13556232
>Ever heard of inalienable rights
There is no such thing. We have no right to anything, not even our lives. We exist purely because nature has decided not to randomly hit you with a bolt of lightning.
>>13556243Gotcha
>>13556204
>Earth federation didn't build the colonies
No, they contracted the Colony Corp. to build and maintain them you fucknut. So in the end they were still paying for most of them.
It's like the govt funding the housing corp to build and run an an apartment building, and then having the tenants declare independence with nukes and nerve gas.
>>13556254
The only thing DYRL retconned is character desigs. It's still an in-universe movie. They have a whole episode about it in 7, and the movie has Emilia say she was inspired to sing after seeing it.
>>13556262
Well I don't see how something that's 'a in-universe movie telling the historical events' could retcon the appearances of character designs when it in of itself is a work of fiction. Unless you're going to say it was more than a movie.
>>13556269
This is a universe where Rock and Roll Jesus saves the galaxy from an ultramassive black hole by giving extradimensional emotion vampires orgams by singing cheesy 80s rock at them (a rare sentence).
I can accept them saying "yeah no the tv series is what happened, they just looked like they did in the movie" at that point.
>>13556261
>So in the end they were still paying for most of them.
With who's money?
I'm sure the British government sunk all sorts of dough into America, Australia and Canada and the colonists there never seemed to think that it meant a bunch of rich guys living in London had exclusive rights to the places they lived forever.
A state has no legitimacy if the people don't give it to them and Spacenoids overwhelmingly seem to not be real fond of the Federation, even if the Zabis fucked up the idea for everybody. I mean they don't call it the anti-earth union group for nothing.
>>13556280
>This is a universe where Rock and Roll Jesus saves the galaxy from an ultramassive black hole by giving extradimensional emotion vampires orgams by singing cheesy 80s rock at them
And?
Even if things are a total clusterfuck, a certain amount of consistency is required. the fact that the movie is 'a movie' but the shows that reference it as a movie use the character designs of them for one of the characters in said shows creates a massive contradiction. You can point out how contrived the plot is, but that's no excuse to then accept whatever they say. Which to my knowledge they ever said.
>>13556287
>Even if things are a total clusterfuck, a certain amount of consistency is required.
No it doesn't. There's been contradictions in Macross since the start, because Kawamori only writes thinking about the "now" and not in the event he gets to make another show.
Shit, the Supervision Army is in itself a massive retcon.
>>13556294
>There's been contradictions in Macross since the start, because Kawamori only writes thinking about the "now" and not in the event he gets to make another show.
Which is why Macross is such a clusterfuck.
Thank you for proving my point.
>>13556298
A clusterfuck implies I can't understand it.
You probably think Kingdom Hearts is convoluted.
>>13556301
Regardless of if you understand it or not, you admit that there is no rhyme or reason to the continuity since it's free forming based on the whims of the writer. You can claim to understand it, but that doesn't detract from my point.
So again, thank you for proving my point.
Also...
>Thinking I play games like that.
>>13556304
Whoops, cookies.
>>13556282
Logic dictates that the first wave of colonies at least were bought with earthnoid money - because no colonies had been built yet. As more people moved into space their taxes probably did help fund new colonies - and after a certain point the Colony Corp probably built some for their own profit with their own cash as well.
All the infrastructure that would have needed to go up to start building colonies in the first place was undoubtedly paid for by earth though.
In the end it's hard to know who invested more into colonies that Zeon would eventually blow up.
>Spacenoids overwhelmingly seem to not be real fond of the Federation
True, but until F91/Victory Zeon were the only ones to get militant about it. Most spacenoids seem to react to the federation the same way normal people react to a different candidate winning the election than the one they wanted - it's a pain in the ass, but it doesn't fuck with you on a day to day basis.
>anti-earth union group
Feddies fighting Feddies who eventually return to being Feddies.
>>13554305
Please kill yourself you pathetic fucking shit stain. Or at least permanently fuck off back to /a/ once and for all.
>>13556282
>. I mean they don't call it the anti-earth union group for nothing.
That name is ret-conned in every modern alteration though.
It's the Anti Earth United Government
I think we can all agree Elie is best girl.
>>13556195
Ayyyyyy
>>13556185
Fighting a civil war with Re-Zeon
>>13556254
Man, Klan is pretty tall. Is that a side effect of her Lolitis or whatever it was called in the show?
>>13556573
She's a big girl because of inflation of the loli?
What was Glemmy's deal exactly? I just remember the blue ISIS members he fights with in the desert arc blow a lot of smoke up his ass about how great he is then he decided to overthrow Haman.
>>13561044
uh i think you mean "and then he betrays haman LITERALLY OUT OF NOWHERE DUDE WTF LOL???"
>>13545369
Zeon is as dead as this thread
