Does /m/ like armored core? what could other series learn from Armored core?
"never let your company become a one trick pony"
>>13527155
Never make something so successful nobody will let you do anything else ever again?
>>13527155
Chainguns are arguably the strongest weapon of all time, and you better get some ice because shit's about to get overheated.
Don't assume your netcode that works flawlessly in Japan will work flawlessly elsewhere in the world?
I liked few Armored Core games, but it was one of those game series that didn't really evolve enough from game to game to keep my interest
So in that sense, most other video game already know what Armored Core knows
>>13527395
>didn't really evolve enough from game to game
Literally dont know what im talking about: the post
>>13527433
fans of series like that always say that
>>13527456
And people who are biased against something will also always do the opposite
>>13527395
Have you see the changes on 4 era? the games on PS2 and before were a little slow and have stats lke heat to care about, 4 goes to sanic speed and say goodbye to heat problems, and you simple can't stop moving if you want to live.
5 era goes for a more slower gameplay but also more tactical, with focus on teamwork.
>>13527464
I'm not sure how bias enters into it. It's not like I have a grudge. I liked the first one or two I played. I just don't think they changed enough in meaningful ways from title to title to bother keeping up with.
Doesn't mean I think it's bad. Just that it needs to be more different for me to care about it again.
>>13527534
Try playing for answer and see how different it is
>>13527540
or verdict day.
Armored Core went to shit as soon as Kawamori stopped doing the designs.
>>13528691
>not loving the beauty of 4 era.
Pleb.
>>13532337
I remember when everyone here hated 4 era.
Then 5 happened and the Zelda cycle kicked in.
>>13527155
I love the soundtracks (FreQuency are masters) and the relative grit on the designs.
The boosting in 4 and after is super stylish (short burst of extreme speed is great, and unexpected of larger machines. Definitely something people should do more).
I'd love to see more games or other mecha media focusing on an industrial feel. And especially land (water and air is okay too, to an extent) based combat.
I'm not a huge fan of the sleek designs or space warfare that seem to be the trend in recent years. I'd like more variety.
>>13527360
>The souls series doesn't count in anon's universe
>>13532344
yeah that's not it. It's
>everyone here hated 4 era
>everyone
You just found your own little echo chamber on the board and inferred a board bias.
One thing people can learn is how to do a story that focuses on the people around a character but not on the character itself. While the player pilot in AC games is usually the center of events, and in the end effects some massive change in the world, the player's actions are actually guided by the interests of everyone else and the player character doesn't really have a personality. With the 4 series there is a greater emphasis on characterizing other pilots and corporate representatives. The Lynx in 4A ends up feeling like an unpredictable force of nature rather than a human being, and the real meat of the story is in others trying to control Lynx for their own ends.
Even in the older games, as you approach the end, characters wonder at your motivations. What is making you try to topple society as they know it? Their inability to understand is often underscored by the fact that we as players don't really know why we're doing it either.
>>13534025
>we as players don't really know why we're doing it either.
That's the case for most AC games, though 4A's multiple paths offer the player slightly more agency in what they do, though the specifics of why are still up for interpretation.
>>13534025
This is a pretty interesting analysis.
I'd say that the player character usually feels like more of a force of nature than a person. More specifically, they're like the manifestation of destiny. These people emerge from obscurity, sway world changing events to upset the status quo, and then disappear into legend. The notion of one person wielding too much power was present right back in the first game. LR put a name to the phenomenon ("Dominant"), and if you consider this in the context of the larger series it fits surprisingly well.
Though I wouldn't say 4/4A focussed on the people around the MC, excepting perhaps Fiona. They like all AC games, have more of a focus on the world and human nature, with a view to how the latter invariably fucks up the former.
>>13527155
I like fighting Spirit of Motherwill with just a sword.
>>13534025
>With the 4 series there is a greater emphasis on characterizing other pilots and corporate representatives
The other ACs did this too, except instead of using a few lines of dialogue, they had an infodump before each arena match and whenever you hired help for a mission.
>>13534764
It's present to a slightly greater extent in 4/4A. Almost every pilot on the roster appears in a mission at some point, whereas the other games have a lot of filler pilots making up the numbers. They still have colourful descriptions that often imply a fair bit of character despite their brevity, but are not present so much outwith the arena.
Although one thing 4/4A didn't do in this respect was the mail system, which could be used to great effect to further characterise other pilots.
Depends on the generation.
The first Armored Core games were pretty jank but MoA had that gigantic arena. Huge, colorful arenas are something games and the mech genre need more of.
The 2 era was pretty fucked but had an intriguing Martian storyline.
3 had a fantastic setting and was my favorite in terms of how piloting the AC feels. There were lots of things to manage like energy and heat, but it was also simple and intuitive. But 3 was a lesson in how NOT to do storytelling. Things are so vague in 3, with 90% of the story in emails and a combined 10 seconds of exposition across two games that the story and setting are wasted.
Nexus and Ninebreaker were a mistake, salvaged by Last Raven.
4/4A were pretty good, but had the worst netcode I've ever seen in a videogame. And not just that, but the way the online worked, and the interface. And they seemed rushed and unpolished as well. I still love 4A but holy fuck that netcode.
I pretty much hate V because they swung too far in the other direction so now you have pointless shit like scan mode, you literally Mario jump everywhere, and the ceiling is like 30 meters high only.
>>13534803
And VD?
My issues with V were primarily with the main campaign. There were only ten main missions, almost all exceptionally long and a drudge to get through, and while they were a lot of side missions they were mostly either arena matches against pilots with no real descriptors to characterise them, or repetitive variations on killing the same three enemy types. The actual story was extremely simplistic and not really in keeping with the tone of AC; in fact the b-plot about a group of human plus mercenaries was much more interesting.
Missions aside, I didn't like how many of the weapons felt, how little option you seemed to have with your defences given specific builds, the vagueness of the defences in general and the dearth of usable weapons.
I found VD to be much more polished. The side missions had a bit more variety, the side characters were more colourful and had much better characterisation (with the bios after their deaths), the main story was much more coherent (and had shorter missions) and did a better job of attaching you to your support staff (whereas in V it was a while before I could tell the difference between Fran and Rosary). It introduced a better variety of equipment, including tweaked versions of parts with modified stats to better suit your defensive needs, and overhauled defence mechanics in the form of the penetration system, which also made machineguns and shotguns less OP. I couldn't for the life of me think of anything to build in V, whereas I put together a fair few designs in VD.
Plus UNACs, which were a nice feature.
I thought the storyline in 3 was actually pretty clear and simple. Anyway, Fromsoft doesn't usually like to tell stories via exposition. They seem to prefer making you build it out of tidbits, which is usually much more engaging.
>>13534834
Yeah, I didn't play VD. I really disliked V with its pointless scan mode, low ceiling, maybe 15 story missions to be generous, everything else is "kill these 15 guys" like WoW fetch quests... I genuinely did not like it.
And when I went online to discuss the game I basically got shouted down by people telling me to "go back to Gundam" and that I started at 4A and was not a "real fan." When I asked what VD was like they told me it was more of the same and if I didn't like V I wouldn't like VD. And also that I was casual, and not a real fan, and to go back to Gundam. If what you say is true I should pick it up.
The thing about 3 is that the setting is rich but you really do have to work to pick it up. And it's not like the Souls series where you have a lot of info in the descriptions of these items to help build the setting. You literally just have these emails and there's two Layereds and that's it. It was minimalist even for From. I understood it, I just thought they could have done more.
From seems to have a problem in general with how much storytelling they want to do. It's either vague and in flavor text, or maximum straightforward.
>>13534888
>if I didn't like V I wouldn't like VD.
>If what you say is true I should pick it up.
I'm not promising any miracles here, like I said: the core gameplay is much the same, it's just much more polished. Think of it as the 4A to V's 4. I was lukewarm on V and about ready to abandon the franchise, and VD rekindled my interest. Just my experience, yours may differ.
Just for reference, the first game I played was 3, I like every AC game a lot and 4A is my personal favourite. Haters gonna hate.
>the setting is rich but you really do have to work to pick it up. And it's not like the Souls series where you have a lot of info in the descriptions of these items to help build the setting
Fromsoft puts bits if lore everywhere in their games, sometimes stuff you have to observe and pick up on rather than read and in all cases you have to scour every nook and cranny. Recall how 4A included worldbuilding infodumps in the loading screens.
Actually, I can't really think of how the other games do less than 3/SL to build the setting. They seemed about the same to me.
>It's either vague and in flavor text, or maximum straightforward.
It's usually both. Minimalist and simple, with more depth if you go looking.
>>13534888
Remember how shit 3 was, and how infinitely better Silent Line made it?
Remember how shit 4 was, and how infinitely better for Answer made it?
It's pretty safe to say that every "first" AC is going to be garbage. I'm pretty sure AC6, if they ever make it, is going to be a mess until the second one comes out.
VD fixes most of the major problems V had, which >>13534834 covers pretty well. If you liked the overall concept of V but felt that it did a lot of things wrong, then check out VD. It's just an objectively better version of the V with a lot more content and polish.
>>13534936
V was really, really shit though.
Oh well, for 20 dollars I can't lose.
>>13527155
Series as in videogame or as in anime?
Because AC doesn't have much narrative going for it, it's something that works just because it's a videogame, imagine doing a AC anime from the Raven's point of view, silent protagonist with no explicit motivation, do it in any other way and you're already disregarding AC's narrative main gimmick.
Other than that, I guess they could learn to do big bads being corporations, but AC is so dry that it doesn't really go beyond "Corporate fucks are greedy assholes that ruin everyone's life for money" and "Genocidal AIs aren't a good ideas even though they're usually better than Corporate fucks", which is good in its simplicity but doesn't really click with the majority of the audience.
>>13534025
>Even in the older games, as you approach the end, characters wonder at your motivations.
That's not really true, Nineball, Stinger, Leos Klein, IBIS, and the LR cast straight up don't give a damn about your reason, to them you're just disrupting their plan, the reason is unimportant.
>we as players don't really know why we're doing it either.
I don't agree, AC is meant to give you a choice on which side you want to be, if you decide to stand against a faction is either because you share certain ideals or you just think others are dicks, even in AC the main motivation is to become the best Raven, PP's motivation is to stop Phantasma, MOA is the most personal AC since you play as Klein, AC2 onwards is just taking sides in a war, be it for money or personal ideas.
Even AC4 genocide ending is pretty personal, if you choose to destroy both sides is because you're either a sociopath or you think that both sides are assholes, you do have a reason that the NPC can't necessarily understand because the protagonist is an avatar that stands for the player, and the player is whoever plays the game, not a premade template for a character.
>>13534969
The only AC games where you have an explicit choice about who to fight are 1, LR and 4A. Sometimes you are given a reason (in 4 you're fighting on behalf of Anatolia), but usually not.
>>13532387
>FreQuency are masters
4A remixes are one of their best works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkCFQHUNmH4
>The boosting in 4 and after is super stylish
The quickboost system is awesome in all aspects, usually mechas avoid fire by flying great circle at max velocity, here you can remain in a relativy small area and still avoid a huge amount of fire (unless there is high track missiles in the mix)
>>13534025
>>13534588
>>13534625
If you think about it Verdict Day actually use this interpretation.
After the first Dark Raven (or Dominant)that the Corporation fought in the past, despise the pilot acting only as the spear head of the resistance force of a small city, they try to kill him and failed many times. Knowing that this "dominants" can appear again at any moment and at any time, they develop a "program" to find them and kill them before is too late (the reaper squad), despise their best efforts, these dominats will always appears and change the course of events in the place they are, it doens't matter if they fight for side, just for money or just for survival, they are to strong and will always appears in a period of extended war.
>>13534782
>Mail system
Man I really wish that comesback eventually.
>You will never receive a mail from Chief telling you how fascinating you are.
>>13535605
Here's another angle to consider. Listen to everything Maggie and the Foundation Man say about the Dark Raven. It refers to the protagonist of V, but it can also apply surprisingly well to Strayed, given the role he played in the world's current condition. And as you mentioned they created the reaper squad out of potential Dominants to headhunt others and remove them as possible threats to the new order they were creating. Only for them to be slaughtered by the first genuine Dominant they ran into.
And as I mentioned, Nineball explicitly calls this out:
>"Those who wield too much power..."
>"Those who only bring chaos..."
>"They are simply not part of the program..."
>>13534927
>Recall how 4A included worldbuilding infodumps in the loading screens.
Man I really loved those loading screens, specially because some really looks like a advertisment from one of the companies.
And don't forget the missions briefings on 4A, really sweet stuff.
>>13535605
Something else to consider. If you take the hard mode of 4 as cannon (which evidence suggests is the case, e.g. Anatolia merc being said to have taken down a company of LYNX solo, which happened in hard mode March Au Supplice, or none of the LYNX from hard mode showing up in 4A), then of the LYNX killed in that war he is (by himself) responsible for the deaths of just over half of the originals (who made up most of the roster and had been at it longer than anyone).
By my count:
21/40 ranked LYNX confirmed dead in the LYNX war (9/40 confirmed survivors)
16 of those 21 were killed by the Anatolia Merc.
This on top of personally wiping out *two* of the corporations that had managed to control the world.
Realising this it's no small wonder just why the League is so pants shittingly terrified of him. He really is good enough to be Line Ark's entire military. And the only one that could beat him was an even bigger Dominant.
>>13535609
Oh? We doing this again?
>You will never get an after mission email from May Greenfield asking you out for a coffee.
>>13535636
They were, especially the little character tics of the corporate reps giving the briefings, like the slapdash lackadaisical GA rep or the slightly smug Omer rep.
>>13527456
You're insane if you don't think there was a huge shift from the PS2 games to AC4 and then another one with ACV. I'm not even that into Armored Core and can still see how the series completely changed over time.
>>13535662
From Software are pretty good at giving characters personality with only a few lines of dialogue.
>>13535628
>Strayed
Man I FUCKING LOVE everthing about him and how one can see him in any of the paths
>Leagues path
Strayed decide to fight for "peace" and protect the status quo, despise this status quo being a shit world where everthing is going down becasue the coorporations can't stop fighting and contaminating the world, and the Cradle system being doomed over time. Really makes you think that if protecting the current "world" and the live of millions is worth if there is actually no future after a couple of generations.
>ORCA path
You fight for a future for mankind, despise being a situation where your only choice is being a radical that his actions will bring chaos to the world, you are opening the space for humanity and the world of 4A clearly have the potencial to build space stations or more, but this of course will bring a new era of war impulsec by the space race and the short time they have before contamination eats everthing.
>Destruction path
The most controversial of all, since you are dealing with a silent protagonist sided with a terrorist this path is really open to interpretation, are you attacking the cradles because you only want to go on a rampage of killing the biggest amount of people possible (ala hatred)? are you really trying eliminated the leader of the coorporations and their supporters so the world can be free from their influence and finally have a change to rebuild itself? or seeing that the cradles with the support of the Arterias are the main source of polution in the world, are you trying to "cleanse" the world from this?Sorry for bad english.
>>13535645
> taken down a company of LYNX solo
In a way, Strayed does the same on Carpals, let's face it, Oldking ins't much help and on hard mode is a 5vs1 basically, and one those is a original AND probably your master too (or sensei since she is japanese)
Anatolia'ss Merc is a badass, but Strayed is a demon, put it on the same machines of any other game or serie and he could change the whole plot just because he exist and someone will pay.
>>13535704
>League path
This ending is sort of defined by Wynne in her various quotes, most notably this one:
>"To treasure a life...is that something to laugh at?"
It's really poignant in general, with her dignified plea for help, her genuine heartfelt gratitude at your response and Kasumi's surprised respect.
>ORCA path
Gotta love how he completed a plan that was supposed to be rigged by being so badass nobody on either side could really stop him
>Destruction
I don't really agree with the 'cleansing' interpretation because that's more the ORCA path, only that accepts the deaths of many cradle citizens as an unfortunate side effect rather than a direct target.
Although Verdict Day reminds us that no matter what he did or why he did it, no matter how awe inspiring it was, none of it mattered in the end, because one way or another the outcome would always be the same.
>>13535657
Anon is that you?
>You will never get a email of Shamir RaviRavi telling you how much she want to "dominate" you.
>>13535722
Well, Strayed did end up beating him. In AC there's always a better dominant. The player beats the antagonist (Zinaida, J) or the previous player (Leos, Anatolia Merc).
I do agree though, Strayed is the Demon Lord of the Round Table to the Anatolia Mercenary's Mobius One.
>>13535733
No, but this is:
>You will never go out drinking with Roadie, Roy Saaland, May Greenfield and Dan Moreau
>>13535724
> because one way or another the outcome would always be the same.
Well the most accepted "canon" ending is the ORCA path since some side material of VD says that the coorporations manage to escape to the stars when they give up on cleaning the world, they left Chief and Carol to watch over humanity after they failed to find a way the clean the world
>>13535745
Why even live?
>>13535693
Is basically their thing and boy they are good at it, this is something other companies can learn from them.
if they ever make a anime of AC I really hope they use 4A, it could use League or ORCA path as their ending, but the OVAs better be a "what-if" scenario of the destruction path.
Do you guys think that 4A could be used like a ocarina of time, where each ending opens a different timeline?
>>13535751
Any ending path works for that though. In Destruction the cradles have fallen, so the arteria facilities are up for grabs and are used. In the league ending it takes longer, but eventually pollution reaches them and the point becomes moot and again, the arteria facilities are up for grabs. ORCA ending is the closes thing to a 'good' ending, though.
>>13535792
I think they all inevitably converge on V.
I did think they could be a groundhog day loop. Like, you're locked into the league path first time. After that Strayed realises something else is at play, distrusts the league and ends up making contact with ORCA. And after however many failed attempts to end the loop he'd just go nuts and kill everyone, having accumulated so much skill that five NEXTs are nothing to him.
>>13535802
but the leagues path leave the anti-satellite cannons destroyed and the world is still covered by the assaults cells, destruction path probably cause to much chaos and a crazy strayed flying around to do anything.
>>13535745
>You will never share a toast with Joshua.
>>13535879
>You will never be welcomed back from a mission by a relieved Fiona.
>>13535904
>OMER wheelchair
Ironic.
>>13535918
I always wondered about the conventional products the companies would produce. Like cars. You just know Rayleonard would make completely impractical supercars and Arisawa industries would make Toyota Hiluz type indestructible stuff.
>>13535904
>you will never be waked up by your own personal UNAC IA.
>>13535927
Wrong, Rayleonard would be more on this type of car, they will probably have Akva-vit doing the regular cars.
Started Armored Core 2 yesterday. So far it's fun but not liking it more than the PS1 trilogy. Also, not enough long-ass "dungeons". The Arena is fun but after Werehound I pretty much had no trouble until like rank 20.
At what point does Nineball appear in this game and tears my asshole apart to several pieces?
>>13535957
you can ask here.
>>>/vg/122763051
>>13535927
Being the big companies they are, they probably cover anything, but seeing how each of them have a area where they focus or at least from where they started, they probably excel others in differents areas, OMER could be the leader on anything related to health.
>>13527155
I don't really like the changes AC4/A did to mission flow
>no more SURPRISE AC BATTLES in the middle of missions
>no more little intro cut-ins for enemy ACs
>A mission is exactly what it says it is except on Hard Mode
ACV/D did it right but fucked up gameplay immeasurably by turning it into rock paper scissors so I prefer 4/A
The 3 era games are still the best distillation of the theme and plot of 1 (complete with similar computer overminds, fanatical corporations, and straight up retreading Nine Ball/Lana Nielsen with IBIS/Sera Cross) but they went full retard with gameplay in Nexus
>>13537021
Pretty much the same reasons I didn't enjoy AC past LR.
V and VD don't even have Kawamori in it.
>>13535636
Definitely, mission briefings from each company was super immersive. Do you happen to have more gifs or even webms of the company logos like that?
>>13539133
Neither did 4, and he only designed White Glint in fA.
The one thing Armored Core did better than any other robot series in existence is that they never once showed the human pilots, or focused on them.
This is why Gundam sucks, why Eva sucks, why the new Xenoblade will suck, why most of it sucks. It's always
>HURRR ONI CHAN I WANNA SUCK ON YOUR FACE AND KISS
>I CAN'T I MUST BE ANGRY AND EMOTE GRRRR EMOTIONAL OUTBURTS
>i'm the mascot and I have a witty retort here :DDDDDDDD
Makes me vomit every time. As if robots can never be the focus of a series, and instead we have to deal with the same cliche emotional problems present in 99% of mecha entertainment.
>Have an armored core game for ps2
>I've barely played it
>it's in pristine condition
Should I, /m/?
>>13535733
>tfw she will never tell you that you're much more attractive as a bullet ridden corpse
Why live?
>>13535636
4/4a probably did worldbuilding the best out of all the AC games, and had the deepest story to them imo. And it really blows my mind how memorable a lot of the pilots from those games turned out to be despite never appearing in person and having only a couple of lines of dialogue each.
>>13549138
It's how they craft an image of each pilot and gently reinforce it with their behaviour.
Roadie there is a perfect example. His description goes on about how shitty his AMS compatability is and how his machine was junk when it was new, and that as of 4 he was a rookie with no experience. But that over the course of the time skip to 4A he clawed his way to the rank 4 position on merit and is now one of the tougher oponents in the game through sheer experience (and is rightfully respected for it).,
And then you meet him and he's easy going but professional, and shows you due reverence for your record, a stark contrast to the other two pilots available for that mission, who tell you to keep out of *their* way.
Or there's Wynne, who starts off seeming like a frigid stuck up bitch, but through her dialogue in the various ending routes transpires to nevertheless have an extremely strong moral core and values individual human lives, a notion she laments has become a joke.
May Greenfield is probably the best example because she never even appears in the campaign, yet is so upbeat and helpful that she's possibly the most possible character in the game. I've always thought they missed a big opportunity to stick her in the hard version of Destroy Cradle 03, just to drive the knife in harder.
>>13535904
It hurts.
>>13549406
Also
>>13549061
Which one?
If it's Last Raven then play some of the other PS2 era games first unless you want to suffer.
>never owned a PS2
>PSP controls are shit
Welp.
>>13535957
I don't think nineball appears until AC2AA
>>13543788
Right now I not on my computer, but I will dump them later.
>>13549138
>>13549403
FROMSOFTWARE really knows how to build a character with just a small profile and few lines, one of my favorites is Dan Moro (Celebrity Ash) how he is a low ranking pilot that is scared of the situations he is, each mission where you can hire him, he get scared even more until he loose it on Sol Dios,
>>13549127
Shamir is the perfect dominatrix of AC.
>>13549403
>missed a big opportunity to stick her in the hard version of Destroy Cradle 03, just to drive the knife in harder.
Anon, what you operator did is enough for that, in any other game or even animes, the moment you decided to go on that rampage will be meet with many questions on why are you doing it? how can you do it? what is making you doing it? and similar. Here, YOUR operator, your only partner and probably Master just leave on the spot, understanding that you are monster and nothing more, she just left, JUST LIKE THAT, no questions, no tears, just disgust and a desire of revenge that anyone that have play for answer have suffered.
>ACVD hardcore mode with 50x ammo cost
Am I supposed to use a melee build, preferably kicking everything to death? 3 missions in and I was already in pretty big debt
>>13553411
That's one option, piles can kill almost anything withouth much effort, but the most popular mode is the one that increase damage.
Also since the hardcore usually is just the handicaps you have and there is no more enemies or something, one option is to find a way to do the mission on normal mode that gives you the change of not dying and saving money, also choose the parts you buy wisely.
>>13553417
I kinda wish the game had a more generic hard mode though, hardcore is a bit too restrictive or it throws the game entirely off balance
>>13553417
Yeah, t looked to me like the easiest hardcore mode was the one I like to think of as Heaven Or Hell mode, where your damage is x10 and enemy damage is x5, since you can usually end missions either quickly or cautiously, though there are still a few right bastards, like that one with the base defences taking potshots at you on approach.
>>13554236
Sniper cannons, or just sniper rifles and good hipfiring, make a mockery of anything that doesn't proactively engage. A single 15 round SC can wipe all those base defenses easily in 10x damage hardcore.
>>13553602
What I wish is the hardcore were more like 4/4A, not only you get more enemies and NEXT battle, but also give a little more of story and lore seeing the new pilots, no just the changelle.
posting gifs.
>>13554814
>>13554824
>>13555164
>>13555185
>>13555218
>>13555245
I have other emblems, I don't know if you want them?
>>13535636
I remember something else now: the sekrit club meetings of ORCA and the League that appear after story missions and elaborate a bit on what's been going on...but only on your second playthrough.
