Purus
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You are currently reading a thread in /m/ - Mecha
Where did the name of the Zeon clone-girls brigade come from? I mean, I know IRL the name is a reference to Lemon People, but in-universe I'm wondering where the name come from.
I like to think it means "Logistical Persons Pool."
-->
L.P. Pool
-->
Elpi Puru
>>13521329
Elpeo Ple was the name of the original girl the clones are based on. You'd have to ask her parents, Mr. and Mrs. Ple.
>>13521334
>Mr. and Mrs.
Oh you meanDolze and Haman's older sister?
I was under the impression that Puru 1 wasn't a clone, I'm sure I'm wrong, but whatevs.
Puru 2 is called Puru 2 because she's a clone of Elpeo Puru.
Marida isn't real. Even if Unicorn is cool sometimes, it doesn't work in universe, and I don't consider it canon, mainly because it isn't Tomino, and it started as some random dude's light novel.
>>13521334
>Elpeo Ple was the name of the original girl the clones are based on.
This would indeed make the most sense.
>>13521392
No, you're not wrong. Puru "1" is Elpeo Ple. Puru 2 is the first clone.
>>13521349
Does this really even make sense?
>>13521392
>I don't consider it canon, mainly because it isn't Tomino
Mah negroid
>>13521392
>Marida isn't real.
None of them are real. It's all fiction. One fictional story is not more "real" than another just because it's made by the director you have a boner for.
>>13521436
No, she is very much less real.
-Were Ple Two and the subsequent Ple clones born the same year as Elpeo (0077, apparently)?
-Did the Ple clones undergo accelerated aging to catch up with Elpeo?
-Who's responsible for cloning Elpeo, and how did the clones end up the property of Glemy Toto?
-The Wiki says Elpeo is a Newtype while only the clones are Cyber-Newtype, but I thought Elpeo was Cyber as well, was there anything in-show that clears this up?
-Is there some relationship between cloning and being a Cyber-Newtype?
In terms of world-building, the Ple clones always stuck out like a thumb. Especially when there aren't any other clones in the universe until Affranchi and Full Frontal, who aren't really clones.
>>13521493
I forgot a pic.
>>13521334
>Mr. Puru
>>13521493
Your questions are all entirely valid, your observations are smart, and I wish we had good answers. I've wondered many of the same things for years.
>>13521493
It was the 80s and anime writers/directors were not well informed on how cloning works. The clones were all probably magically speed grown in science pods.
>>13521749
>>13521493
She's Jewdough's Lina siscon substitute and loli fanserice
Don't think too hard about it.
The writers didn't.
Pedos Unt Retards United
Do we actually know for sure, from official sources, that Elpi Puru was naturally born (as opposed to all the other Purus)? Are we sure she wasn't some kinda test-tube baby created in a lab herself?
>>13521493
>Were Ple Two and the subsequent Ple clones born the same year as Elpeo (0077, apparently)?
I've wondered about this too. It seems unlikely, as I think newtype research didn't even begin until 0079... That's when the Flanagan Institute was established, at least. I suppose, of course, it's possible that the clone batch was created first, and then subjected to newtype experiments later on in their development.
It seems most probable that the Puru clones were grown at an accelerated rate. Perhaps the "cyber-newtype" process they underwent was not so much enhancements to give them Newtype powers, but instead artificial memories and personalities given to them because -- as speed-grown blank-minded clones -- they'd have no personalities nor memories of their own.
Odd, too, that this is pretty much the only example of cloning we'd seen at that point. Zero clones of any sort ever seen, and then all of a sudden: twelve speed-grown newtype child soldiers who function very well indeed. Gosh.
Reminds me of a "Gundam Triple Zeta" RPG my friend ran, in which the players eventually found themselves fighting an army of 300 Char clones.
>>13521758
>It was the 80s and anime writers/directors were not well informed on how cloning works.
Don't talk like an uninformed tween. Clones had been used in sci-fi a shit-ton in the 80s and well before, and some anime writers are almost ludicrously well-read. That said...
>The clones were all probably magically speed grown in science pods.
Probably right. But that's not the "fault" of it being the 80s, nor of anime creators being ill-informed.
>>13521765
>Don't think too hard about it.
Your nerd/geek membership card is hereby revoked.
Don't you understand? Overthinking things is what nerds/geeks DO.
>>13521493
>Who's responsible for cloning Elpeo, and how did the clones end up the property of Glemy Toto?
This is a VERY interesting question. It probably ties in, somehow, with Gremy's sudden revelation as a supposed Zabi relative/descendant.
>>13521799
>This is a VERY interesting question. It probably ties in, somehow, with Gremy's sudden revelation as a supposed Zabi relative/descendant.
A google translation of the Japanese Wikipedia page about the Puru Series seems to suggest that... If I am scrying the garbled results correctly.
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/プルシリーズ
"It is a replica of the Newtype pilot by cloning technology. [Zeon] thought that there is a side to Newtype capability is dependent on the genetic trait, officer Glemy Toto under the leadership, the human with the sophistication of Newtype gene was incorporated, and was subjected to a body strengthening at the genetic level from developmental stage designer baby, it created the Puru series. Former Zabi family Zeon is led by, certain to pedigree dogma and embraced, that it can be considered to have prompted the development of such technology.
In addition, Ghiren Zabi Like Glemy that self-proclaimed the child, there is a theory that the presence that was born by artificial insemination the genes of women with a gene and Newtype of sophistication of Ghiren. Puru and Puru Two in the twins that could be from the gene of the same woman, hit in his half brother and sister and Glemy was born in the same circumstances. Other Puru series also, the look and voice different (Puru and Puru two series of voice actors other than Puru played a two Chieko Honda instead, Matsuoka Miyuki from such is responsible) it is estimated that his half sister In that."
>>13521835
>A google translation of the Japanese Wikipedia page
>
>https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/プルシリーズ
From the same page, some more info (such as it is):
"Axis under the supervision of Glemy Toto within, the girl who had been trained as a pilot. Mysteries many regarding birth, there is also the books that you want to be intentionally record has not been left behind is erased. There already several theories such as the theory that was someone's clone in her time. Has been subjected to strengthen measures in the training stage, 10-year-old (strictly speaking, the 11-year-old) to help even young is that you peek occasionally emotional unstable surface."
Seems like it might be kinda a mystery in-universe, and in Japan.
>>13521794
>le nerd culture XD
Hello reddit!
I ran a tabletop roleplaying game, using Mekton Z, of an alternate-universe retelling of Gundam ZZ.
The players characters, all AEUG and based on the Ahgama soon enough, included the last surviving member of the red Nemo team, a reformed Zeon guy named Zulu Dawn, a teenage newtype girl, and "Elbow Smash," who was actually Yazan Gable pulling a Char/Quattro.
In that game, I cast Illia Pazom in the role of the "strange Newtype girl" that Puru held in the original show.
I want to rest my head on Puru's navel.
>>13521873
>Hello reddit!
Yeah, no. Fuck reddit. I never go there. And I'm not talking about nerd "culture," genius, I'm talking about nerd personalities.
Telling a buncha mecha anime geeks to stop overthinking things is like telling a ghetto-raised black person to stop listening to hip-hop.
>>13521784
>Perhaps the "cyber-newtype" process they underwent was not so much enhancements to give them Newtype powers, but instead artificial memories and personalities given to them because -- as speed-grown blank-minded clones -- they'd have no personalities nor memories of their own.
This fits surprisingly well with the Newtype theory. Newtype isn't a skill, it's something every human is born with as potential. This means they got the same memories as Elpeo and unlocked their newtype powers pretty much the way she did.
>>13521784
>Do we actually know for sure, from official sources, that Elpi Puru was naturally born (as opposed to all the other Purus)? Are we sure she wasn't some kinda test-tube baby created in a lab herself?
They have to all be clones of some original newtype.
Puru Two doesn't seem to display any age difference from Elpeo Puru. Which would imply ether both were born around the same time, or Puru Two has accelerated aging.
Accelerated aging WOULD make some sense for disposable clone soldiers, but then you have Puru Twelve, who as far as we know, aged by normal human standards. Which directly implies the other Purus were the same.
The problem, is that assuming all the Purus aged normally (which seems to be the case), this whole project of creating a clone army of newtypes would have had to started somewhere around UC 78, likely a bit earlier. Way before Newtypes had displayed significant military impact. Which begs the question as to how such a high budget project was put into motion in the first place.
>>13521890
>.gif
>claims to know shit about being a nerd
C'mon, it's [current year] we webm nao
>>13521905
>but then you have Puru Twelve, who as far as we know, aged by normal human standards.
Can't you have accelerated aging in the test tube them normal for the rest?
>>13521916
If things were that convenient, I feel like we would have seen more lines of clone soldiers in UC than just the Purus.
I assumed the reason this was never tried before, or again, was because it was a long term investment that required a significant amount of forethought.
>>13521913
Keep on trying, Mister TryHard
>>13521903
>>13521905
>>13521916
>>13521929
God, I fucking love when threads on /m/ actually manifest thoughtful discussion. So fucking HOT!!!
[roboFap roboFap roboFap]
>>13521905
Has it even been specified clearly weather the Purus are considered Newtypes, or Cyber Newtypes?
Could it have been an unrelated cloning project that got turned into a cyber newtype soldier creation project, once the significance of newtypes was more widely accepted?
>>13521929
Since when has Gundam ever been about consistency? It's probably not that hard but Puru takes up the place of "newtype clone girl" in UC. The real issue would come from finding a newtype to clone because 99% of the time Zeon was using cyber-newtypes.
>>13521941
Not as hot as loli butt
>>13521929
Going by Puru Twelve, the prostitution business alone would have seen incredible profit if such technology was available.
>>13521929
>If things were that convenient, I feel like we would have seen more lines of clone soldiers in UC than just the Purus.
We could even revive Char.
>>13521956
Wasn't he pretty different from a literal clone? Even seemed to have some ghost stuff going on.
>>13521952
>this but with roles reversed.
muh dick
>>13521941
Admittedly I'm totally fanficcing this, but...
...Perhaps a human cloning experiment was started by Zeon back in 0078 or 077 or so. Perhaps it was JUST a cloning experiment, since Newtype science didn't exist back then.
Why do this experiment? Any number of reasons. One possibility: since Zeon was gearing up for war, and they were cultivating an MS-focused military, they'd need good pilots for said MSs. And since Zeon's population was MUCH smaller than the population they'd need to control if they won their war (they'd have taken over the entire Earth Sphere), maybe their plan was to CLONE pilots and soldiers.
However, as time progressed past the OYW, this cloning project gained new and different attention because its clone-template, Elpi Puru, displayed great Newtype capability. So the cloning project was altered to integrate Cyber-Newtype technology based on Elpi's powerz and Axis' own advances in Newtype/Psycommu science.
I suppose it's a possible explanation. Now where's my No-Prize?
>>13521947
>Has it even been specified clearly weather the Purus are considered Newtypes, or Cyber Newtypes?
I don't actually know. I doubt it's ever been made clear, but I ain't sure.
>>13521947
>Could it have been an unrelated cloning project that got turned into a cyber newtype soldier creation project, once the significance of newtypes was more widely accepted?
>>13521982
>Perhaps a human cloning experiment was started by Zeon back in 0078 or 077 or so. Perhaps it was JUST a cloning experiment, since Newtype science didn't exist back then.
Damn, great minds think alike.
>>13521947
>Has it even been specified clearly weather the Purus are considered Newtypes, or Cyber Newtypes?
Well, in
https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/プルシリーズ
there are mentions of "strengthened humans," which is the original Japanese term for what we call "Cyber-Newtypes." So...probably yes.
>>13522003
I never got why they put Newtype in Cyber-Newtype when it makes it sound completely different from their kyogai ningen thing or whatever. It makes the title sound like "A variaton on Newtype" instead of "A completely different thing from Newtypes"
>>13521982
Actually, what you wrote already exists. See this:
http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15695
This explains it
later
>>13521493
>was there anything in-show that clears this up?
Puru gets a check up in show because they thought she was a cyber newtype. She wasn't.
If they made so many then why wasn't a pleasure model made?
>>13521748
Wat.
>>13521392
>>13523366
They're all pleasure models, anon.
>>13521982
/m/...for pete sake. Puru is the illegitimate daughter of Dolze and older sister of Haman, by default older half sister of Mineva. Had she lived, the heir to the Zabi legacy, but in an odd way became her baby half sisters protector.
>>13523745
Nice fanfic.
>>13523207
>Actually, what you wrote already exists. See this:
>http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15695
Ooohhhh, NICE find. Thanks! Mark Simmons' notes on this stuff is always the very best go-to for genuine information.
Heh. So there are conflicting stories about the origins of Glemy and the Purus, even in Japan. Figures!
>>13521905
Isn't it possible that only some Purus got accelerated aging? Reason being they felt they didn't more Purus out in the field so they just kept the unused ones unaccelerated.
>>13521929
It's possible that whatever knowledge that was gained by cloning the Purus was lost and if it was the first case of cloning like that in UC that would be a huge set back.
>>13523243
>This explains it
Kinda? What you posted is summarized in Mark Simmons' post, here:
http://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15695#p349562
"According to this summary [from Animedia's second Gundam ZZ book] Glemy was a test-tube baby created by combining genetic material from Gihren Zabi and a female Newtype; the Ple clones were part of the same project, making them basically siblings."
This story comes from unpublished setting material prepared by the TV series staff but never used in the actual animation.
However, Mark points out that this story conflicts with the other major theory about Glemy's origin: that he's the illegitimate son of Degwin Zabi. That story comes from the ZZ novels, which were written by Akinori Endo, who wrote almost half of the episodes of the ZZ animation - including episodes 23 and 32, which touch directly on the subject of Glemy's position within Axis.
So both stories come from VERY credible sources. Confusing! Mark thinks the illegitimate son theory is much more likely, and I'm inclined to agree.
>>13523879
Did the Gihren's son thing come from a combination of those two origin?
I like it more than either
>>13523338
>Puru gets a check up in show because they thought she was a cyber newtype. She wasn't.
So Puru was a naturally-born human gifted with strong Newtype powerz, and Purus 2 through 12+ were her clones. Informative! :-)
>>13523745
>/m/...for pete sake. Puru is the illegitimate daughter of Dolze and older sister of Haman, by default older half sister of Mineva. Had she lived, the heir to the Zabi legacy, but in an odd way became her baby half sisters protector.
Sure, why not completely make things up? That's what anime fans did back in the early 80s, and that's a time period that's in fashion again right now, so... congrats! You're trendy.
>>13523869
>Isn't it possible that only some Purus got accelerated aging? Reason being they felt they didn't more Purus out in the field so they just kept the unused ones unaccelerated.
Huh? We don't see Purus of varying ages, so I'm not sure what prompted you to bring this up...
>>13523876
>It's possible that whatever knowledge that was gained by cloning the Purus was lost and if it was the first case of cloning like that in UC that would be a huge set back.
This is a fascinating idea. The Purus representing a lost opportunity to the whole field of cloning science -- rediscovered only to be squandered as glorified cannon fodder by the Neo-Zeon civil war. It's appropriate to the entire Gundam mindset, I must say.
>>13523989
>Did the Gihren's son thing come from a combination of those two origin?
>I like it more than either
I don't know. Wherever source it came from, I doubt it could possibly be as credible as the series bible or one of the main writers.
The "Degwin's illegitimate son" idea definitely holds more water than the "test-tube newtype clone project" idea. As Mark said:
"I find Endo's theory more credible - Glemy was born in U.C. 0071, which seems pretty early for Gihren to be performing genetics experiments based on a Newtype theory he doesn't even believe in. (Not to mention that Glemy himself doesn't seem to have any particular Newtype abilities.)"
>>13523879
I always took it as he was some offshoot of the family who suddenly started claiming they were important. Sort of like when someone wins the lottery and all unheard of relatives start sending letters
He never said I am a Zabi but I have Zabi blood, if he was an illegitimate son he'd say the first.
>>13524047
Glemy was a weak newtype, evidenced by getting a light headache when Judau went ape shit and conjured a stand.
>>13524047
There's basically no point at all in combining a Zabi with newtypes at all, as a leader or a soldier having Gihren involved is just pointless. The Degwin son origin is also typical, an illegitimate son of an empire's figure is passe. It just makes him a secret Zabi sibling who came out of nowhere to scoop up power.
The Gihren's son origin makes him a bit more complex. He's not the child of just any Zabi, he's Gihren's kid. Not just a child of Degwin who came out of nowhere, but the son of Gihren who was the leader of Zeon during the OYW. He's representative of the good old days as Gihren's son, before Haman's selfish rule and when spacenoid pride was high. Glemy isn't a puppetmaster of a Zabi, he is a Zabi, he is THE Zabi like Gihren was
>>13524061
>I always took it as he was some offshoot of the family who suddenly started claiming they were important. Sort of like when someone wins the lottery and all unheard of relatives start sending letters
Indeed. And that certainly would fit the "Degwin's illegitimate son" angle.
>He never said I am a Zabi but I have Zabi blood, if he was an illegitimate son he'd say the first.
Huh? I don't think so... his last name ain't Zabi, he was never recognized as a Zabi...
>>13524101
>There's basically no point at all in combining a Zabi with newtypes at all, as a leader or a soldier having Gihren involved is just pointless.
Indeed.
>The Degwin son origin is also typical, an illegitimate son of an empire's figure is passe. It just makes him a secret Zabi sibling who came out of nowhere to scoop up power.
Well yeah. Precisely. It seems most logical, likely, and probable. Maybe not crazy exciting, but hey.
>The Gihren's son origin makes him a bit more complex. He's not the child of just any Zabi, he's Gihren's kid.
Uh... Degwin Zabi isn't "just any Zabi," he was the founder of the Zeon Archduchy. The father of Ghiren, the guy who started the OYW. He was basically Zeon's KING.
>Not just a child of Degwin who came out of nowhere, but the son of Gihren who was the leader of Zeon during the OYW.
Dude. Being the son of Degwin is actually more impressive than being the son of Ghiren -- who took over after his daddy died, and who LOST the war.
>He's representative of the good old days as [Degwin's] son, before Haman's selfish rule and when spacenoid pride was high. Glemy isn't a puppetmaster of a Zabi, he is a Zabi, he is THE Zabi like [Degwin] was.
FTFY
(Maybe you got Degwin and Dozle confused. There are a lot of Zabis, after all.)
>>13524199
>Indeed. And that certainly would fit the "Degwin's illegitimate son" angle.
What? No, I don't think you understood my post at all as I am saying he isn't a son but a relative
I am saying he is not (NOT) a direct descendant of the ruling Zabi family but like a cousin who was enough related to say we now rank up in high society as well. That is what happened in the real world
That is why he says has Zabi blood but does not (again NOT) say he IS a Zabi. If he were a son he would have said "I am a Zabi" but he never does that or even mention Degwin. In fact in the first episode I'm pretty sure he mentions his mother and father like they are alive some place else
>>13524199
Degwin was just sitting on this throne the whole war and shut down after Garma died. Gihren was the face of Zeon, he was the one giving speeches, he was the one commanding the war effort even if he lost.
If I was an old man who fought in the war or a young kid who grew up watching Zeon propaganda as a kid, I think I would identify more with the son of the commander I saw the whole time rather than the son of the monarch who didn't do much publicly aside from looking like a potato
>>13524216
OIC
>>13524241
yer mom looks like a potato
>>13521880
Interesting given Illia Pazom's status as "I'm not a cyber-newtype, but I do dress like one at work."
>>13524586
Well, she didn't get a lot of use in the show... And sexy women are a lot more entertaining to an RPG group than spastic children.
>>13524486
Glemy could have been the Sheev of UC
>>13525403
>Sheev of UC
That's Mashymar.
Wouldn't "L People" be pronounced エルピプー?
>>13526906
...no?
>>13525403
At least Sheev's success is somewhat comprehensible.
How this retard managed to pull half of Neo-Zeon on his side while Haman was apparently distracted by sexy teenage boys will forever remain a mystery to me.
It's like every time we see him, he's in a higher position of power and has more resources despite constantly fucking up.
>>13526974
It's explained in side stories
>>13526974
You know Haman's not a good leader, right? She consolidates all the power with herself and doesn't have any privileges for her officers to keep them motivated because she keeps them going by fear of violence. There's going to be no place for them to loaf around and wave their dick around if Haman wins the war. That's no way to run an army. Glemy genuinely inspires people even if he is a little freak who keeps a room full of frozen little girls on his ship and shows them respect if they show it to him
>>13526974
Constantly fucking up promoted Jerid.
Why did Glemy clone a little girl anyway?
>>13527038
It's explained in the show. Glemmy wins the hearts of the african remnants by devoting himself to their cause and to the soldiers. Haman on the other hand is a frigid bitch
>>13526974
And this is the REAL reason ZZ blows (even after it ditches the slapstick and gets serious). It's very, very badly written. Nothing makes sense.
>>13527038
>chinese bugsplats
not helpful
>>13527430
>doesn't have any privileges for her officers to keep them motivated because she keeps them going by fear of violence
Examples please? Proof?
>>13527475
>Why did Glemy clone a little girl anyway?
He didn't you fucking moron. Read the goddamn thread. That exact subject is what the whole thread has been ABOUT. Fuck!
>>13527673
There's no cult of personality around Haman and her whole campaign is about her being queen bitch of the Earth Sphere with no appeals to ego like the other Zeonic movements
There are no notable officers under her command by the time of Glemy's rebellion except for her dangerous Cyber-Newtypes and their handlers
The fact that they have handlers instead of having the handlers lead their own squad is also a big minus
She turns people into Cyber-Newtypes for failure
>>13521784
>Reminds me of a "Gundam Triple Zeta" RPG my friend ran, in which the players eventually found themselves fighting an army of 300 Char clones.
Online RP or tabletop? If the latter, what ruleset?
>>13526974
>How this retard managed to pull half-of Neo-Zeon on his side [...] will forever remain a mystery to me.
That's why I loved Glemy so much.
Well, it would've been as stupid as >>13527655 thinks it is, if it weren't for the Blue Team arc like >>13527523 mentioned. A clumsy momma's boy who manages to scheme and impress his way to rebellion, driven by a sympathetic philosophy. He deserved his own mask.
>>13530478
He is too beautiful for a meme mask
>>13530486
Meme or not, I've been wanting to design a mask based off his breastplate-dragon logo. Also, a mask for Jerrid based off the Titan's eagle logo.
>>13530478
Non of what we've seen in the desert suggested that he was cut out for the big leagues though.
Impressing simple soldiers is one thing.
But pulling in the brass is another. Especially when you haven't got a single victory to show them.
That's where the story pulls the cheep ploy of handing him more resources while we weren't watching. Otherwise he would have never been a viable option.
They also turn Haman into a complete idiot, who has suspicions against Glemy but takes no precautions whatsoever.
That's one of my main beefs with ZZ. The storytelling is just so bad. The whole idea of splitting the faction seems like something they pulled out of their ass halfway through the show and had no idea on how to establish properly while telling a full story.
I would have appreciated the whole thing if it had seemed like a steady rise to power. Instead it was blatantly bullshiting the audience. Hell, Slaine from A/Z had a more believable sudden surge of power. At least we knew where his resources came from.
Add to that the near non-existence of interesting character arcs and I don't get why people suddenly love ZZ.
It just wasn't good.
>>13530542
First draw an S for Serpent. Or uh, Glemy.
Then draw a more different S.
>>13526974
>At least Sheev's success is somewhat comprehensible.
