Currently watching 00 for the first time, and did this guy just leave his girlfriend alone after she lost her family and her arm?
What a pathetic excuse of a man
>>13509753
She does push him away after the accident- I'm sorry, unprovoked mass murder incident. Also, being housed in a hospital in Spain, which I presume, you know, might just have been a bit of an obstacle for her significant other, being a working student who had just blew his cash on buying matching pair rings for couples and was living about half the globe away, in Japan, so, yes, I am shooting down any future idiot rebuttals of "get manly and return to sweep her up in his arms".On his part, he later works hard to become a space engineer on the hopes of being able to get back with her, but unfortunately gets sent to a space gulag in the middle of buttfuck nowhere by motherfucking space Stasi.while his former girlfriend was now piloting a fucking military giant robot as part of said space Stasi that wouldn't hesitate to send automated drones to exterminate all life on a space station. Linear logic highly avocates the theory that that joining an oppressive military outfit would leave little time for any potential... conventional... future meetups especially if your boyfriend ends up under the custody of the space freedom fighters that the space Stasi want to eradicate
>>13509808
Reason and common sense in /m?
The boy needed to fuck off to make way for the doped cyber-newtype female MA pilot of this series, as if we haven't seen that enough.
>>13509808
This
Trauma does shit to you man. Just look at all those hobo vets
>>13511222
Trips confirm.
>>13509753
She didn't want de D, /m/an.
>>13509808
why DID they send the automatons?
I can't seem to remember
>>13511431
They knew Katharon was going to try a jailbreak, so they prepared the automatons, since they needed testing IIRC.
>>13511431
It's a quick and dirty sweep mission. No need to waste GN particles or risk injuring human operatives.
>>13509753
Who wants a bitch with only one hand?
He got off lucky.
>>13511449
Get that bitch a bionic arm.
Bitches love bionic arms.
>>13511449
I hear they give the best hand jobs
>>13509753
Needed to get rid of her for...reasons. Make it more traumatic.
Was a powerful scene but the ending was pure faggotry.
SHould have just moved to whatever spanish college was around and lived off of his sisters and her parents insurance money inheritance.
Fucks sake, the exact moment the bitch even pretended to not be a selfish cunt was when she pushes him way. Right when they needed each other the most.
She's fucking retarded and HE'S now the selfish bitch.
>>13513880
Seriously, that's when she needed him the most.
>>13511496
>>13509808
>being a working student who had just blew his cash on buying matching pair rings for couples and was living about half the globe away
It's yurope, he could just claim to be a refugee and could live off of welfare while he waits for her to recover. Not to mention his gf is the only surviving heir to a massive family fortune, so money was not an obstacle. Women are always crazy after a life altering event takes places, both good and bad. It's the man's job to bring her back to reality, so yes Saji did fuck up big time.
>>13513969
>It's the man's job to bring her back to reality, so yes Saji did fuck up big time.
Man, I hope this is irony.
>>13509808
Man, you're just reminding me how little I actually remember of S2.
>>13509808
I would've preferred it if they would've dropped Saji and Louise entirely and just made this whole silly dating/citizen plot into one of the Meister's plots.
Like fucking Hallelujah did absolutely nothing in S2 besides get his dick stepped on, he could've had a girl on the side who got fucked up during one of his missions and became super distant.
Then we wouldn't of needed Saji "Backpack Pilot" Crossroads to come fly in and save the day.
>>13511431
To show the terrorist what real terror is.
>>13513969
>It's the man's job to bring her back to reality
but Anon, thats what he did in the end..
>>13509753
Awful and unneeded characters in charge of ruining a show.
>>13514156
>I would've preferred it if they would've dropped Saji and Louise entirely and just made this whole silly dating/citizen plot into one of the Meister's plots.
Saji's role in the story is pretty obvious: being the audience's stand-in. And it was working...
at first, before the plot decided to give him laser-guided bad luck.I'll never get tired of posting this screencap. And it isn't even my text.
>>13514425
>being the audience's stand-in
You mean japanese stand in. It's not surprise that the only jap in 00 is a beta with a big boobed blonde foreign girlfriend
>>13514492
>You mean japanese stand in.
And who is Gundam's core audience? I don't think Sunrise cares about filthy foreign devils watching their anime.
>>13509848
Common sense is the opposite of independent thought
>>13514492
Not even Japanese, man.
Saji isn't typical by any means but he wastes time sitting around and caught up in events. Even the most sedentary viewer is screaming at him to DO SOMETHING. Really, even an audience surrogate has to contribute SOMETHING to the plot.
You know what would have been awesome? Saji getting into a gundam and having to fight his girlfriend.
>>13514516
> Saji getting into a Gundam
Please no. The entire point of Saji is that he's removed from those events, at least in season one and that he's just a regular guy. Or supposed to be, despite >>13514425. I didn't even like him being in the back of the Raiser. If you're going to have him drawn in to Celestial Being, then it's better to have him working with Ian in the Ptolemy II and devising a way to make the output of the 00 itself more stable and contributing from there.
Frankly though I think he'd have been better off being the one working for A-Laws as an engineer while Louise worked for Celestial Being as their new meister.
>>13514536
>while Louise worked for Celestial Being as their new meister.
Louise, the one who lost everything and a hand because of Gundams, working for CB? No, it made sense for her to be on the other side. The problem was making her a pilot, instead of just an external investor.
>>13514551
Louise really is the last person you'd pick for a gundam meister. She's psychologically unstable, needs drugs to function, and has no loyalty to the cause of peace.
>>13513969
>It's yurope, he could just claim to be a refugee and could live off of welfare while he waits for her to recover.
He's not MidEast/African enough to pass off as one not from any of the 3 blocs.
Jokes and meta aside, if I recall my plot progression correctly they do agree to stay together; just that Saji agreed to finish his course so that he could actually work instead of being a mooch, somewhere between scumsucker and parasite; not a very appealing position to be in, finance-fueled logical thinking set aside. What might the gossipy neighbors say?
Then Ribbons steps in somehow and gets a soft-lived disabled person (and her fat inheritance too, iirc) into an exclusive military outfit, Saji gets into trouble on disguised space gulag, and we all know what happened after that.
This thread reminded me of Saji's role in the story, though. I never found a need to ask; I always regarded it as a natural progression of events that were related to him. Thinking about it now, >>13514536's suggestion seems sound.
>>13514551
Louise lost everything because of rogue Gundams that Celestial Being had already disavowed and were actively against.
>>13514604
> Louise really is the last person you'd pick for a Gundam meister
Actually, I'd put her ahead of Saji since at least she has motivation and means, where Saji had neither - he was literally just along for the ride.
> She's psychologically unstable, needs drugs to function
Pretty sure she was psychologically unstable specifically because of a mixture of the drugs and treatments Ribbons put her through and was fine prior to that point. All of which was only introduced in season two when they'd already decided to put her in the A-Laws to give her something to do.
Besides, it's not like Celestial Being is all that bothered about that. They have a literal psychotic with split personality syndrome on their roster already. Louise is practically sane by comparison even at her worst.
> no loyalty to the cause of peace
She has as much cause for it as Setsuna, Lyle or Neil. Similar stories even, given that she lost her family to rogue violent elements, just like the Dylandys.
>>13515241
>Actually, I'd put her ahead of Saji since at least she has motivation and means, where Saji had neither - he was literally just along for the ride.
Saji lost his sister to the same dude who killed Lockons' family, nearly lost his girlfriend to the Thrones, and got thrown into a high-G prison by a tyrannical government organization. Saji has plenty of reasons to fight, he just lacks the will to do so.
>Pretty sure she was psychologically unstable specifically because of a mixture of the drugs and treatments Ribbons put her through and was fine prior to that point. All of which was only introduced in season two when they'd already decided to put her in the A-Laws to give her something to do.
The screenplay suggests it was actual anti-rejection medication for her arm. Furthermore, the psychosis was a result of her entire family being destroyed before her eyes.
>She has as much cause for it as Setsuna, Lyle or Neil. Similar stories even, given that she lost her family to rogue violent elements, just like the Dylandys.
She's also convinced that CB killed her family and doesn't seem to care about A-LAW's atrocities.
>>13514033
Me too. In my defense, I watched most of it in raw form on my tiny-ass BlackBerry screen while eating dinner alone in college.
>>13514604
She doesn't need drugs to function, the implant made her need them. I keep asking myself why didn't they just give her a bionic arm if the regeneration tech was ineffective due to poisoned GN Particles.
>>13515241
>Pretty sure she was psychologically unstable specifically because of a mixture of the drugs and treatments Ribbons put her through and was fine prior to that point.
This. She was utterly depressed but not to the point of needing seizure-inducing drugs.
>>13515424
Did they even have bionic limbs?
>>13515241
Okay, so, /m/ Rewrites 00, changelog #1:
>Saji works as an A-Laws engineer
>Louise comes in as a bridge bunny who ascends to Raiser pilot (bonus: we pass the Bechdel test by putting her in a room with Marie)
>Replace Ribbons with Ali for keikaku doori villain
>>13515447
WE have bionic limbs, dude. In the 2010's.
>>13515448
Have Nena live with Patrick-oh wait, nvm.
Damnit, that faggot needs to update already.
>>13515448
Nah, just make her Lockon II because she's been hitting the gun range for the last two years or whatever since her parents died with her cyborg arm.
>>13515459
So? OO is from before that, and is clearly a alternate future world, them not having bionic limbs is perfectly reasonable.
>>13515468
No that's...no.
You're suggesting a very specific change to the progress of medical science to fit that explanation in.
>>13515054
They sort of...um....I'm not sure but in the opening of season 2 Saji went through school and became a space worker seemingly with the idea that after he becomes successful enough he can go back to Louise and sweep her away, meanwhile Louise joined Alaws and neither of them has any idea what the other had been up to. When Louise runs into Setsuna at that party she had no idea he was working in space.
But we never really find out what happened to them between seasons as Louise never shows in season 1 after that hospital scene and Saji just sits in his room moping and telling the Gundam's to die for the rest of the season.
>>13515465
I'd rather have Feldt replace Lockon.
Seriously, she had the whole background ready for it.
>>13515468
The first bionic limb was made in 2007, the same year 00 started. Prosthetics had been approaching it for years prior to that point too.
>>13515241
>rogue Gundams that Celestial Being had already disavowed and were actively against.
Nobody ever gives a shit about that though. The rest of the world continues to believe Thrones and CB were the same group. Daryl ruins Lockon's chance of killing Ali by suciding into him because of Howard, who died from the Thrones, Louise spends all of season 2 blaming CB for her family's deaths, etc.
Even Saji spends several episodes blaming CB for the Thrones and Ali ruining his and Louise's lives as well and he only finally starts to believe they aren't that bad because they let him look at their archives to prove the Thrones were another group and they didn't kill his sister.
>>13515506
You know it's totally writtable, hell, start Louise by planning to blow them from the inside and then find out it wasn't them but the rogue Trinity siblings who did the deed. It still ends up on her taking revenge at Nena yet being with CB.
>>13515506
All of that is in season two though. Which I'm already proposing a change to. That it would have knock on off effects is only natural, one of which would be that when they take her in instead of Saji they let her look at their archives and promise to help her hunt down Nena. She then fulfills the same role that Neil (or Lyle - can't remember which is the second Dylandy) does, being a tale of letting go of a desire for revenge. Though honestly, Setsuna or someone who actually interacted with the original Lockon and saw that he couldn't let go of his desire for vengeance (like Feldt) would be better in that regard.
>>13515448
>Bechdel test
The many scenes with Shirin and Marina surely cover that
What was the point of her death if Saji never got to know who Ali even was?
>>13515518
>start Louise by planning to blow them from the inside and then find out it wasn't them but the rogue Trinity siblings who did the deed.
This. This worked well and it's a way more interesting upgrade than Saji in the group. Louise would become a wild card, which creates tension in the viewer wondering what the hell will doing at the end. Her story with Saji would remain unchanged, especially if she becomes the co-pilot of 00.
>>13515465
I was thinking that, but I would miss the Anew arc, and plus we already have a chick who helps pilot a Meister's mech from an auxiliary unit.
>>13515633
So make her ride the Cherudim. Soma keeps riding GN Archer and Louise Lockons it up.
Anew can try to seduce Rasse insted or something.
>>13515646
Anew romance was truly interchangeable with any character.
>>13515582
Basically to make Ali look like a rat bastard. Up until then people actually thought he was kind of cool and figured his war thing was just an honorable combat thing. Once he pretty much deliberately told her too much so he could have an excuse to kill her for kicks is when you really realize just how fucked up Ali is.
Or it made it clear Ali doesn't enjoy fighting so much as killing. He's not in it for the thrill of the fight he just gets off on murdering people.
>>13515582
Shock value
>>13515448
Sounds worse.
>>13518428
Sounds like you have no taste.
>>13515424
Wait, her arm wasn't bionic?
>>13515882
>He's not in it for the thrill of the fight he just gets off on murdering people.
How else were they gonna justify him dying to a pair of loser twins that could miss Tierens flying straight at them in space? If Ali was only as 'evil' as Yazan, then nobody would want him to die and that wouldn't fit the whole point of the series where everyone who isn't CB is WRONG.
And let's be honest Fujikei probably missed his Vlad Russo role.
>>13518908
>everyone who isn't CB is WRONG
I think you missed the part where the entire world (politically at least) still sees them as terrorists to be apprehended/shot, despite acknowledging their role in bringing down the A-Laws.
>>13518932
That's the thing, the show paints CB as doing the right thing like a squad of dark knights, undertaking their mission and fucking people over for THE GREATER GOOD. In the end everyone ends up supporting CB against Ribbons and his army of jihad clones anyways, so no it doesn't matter.
It'd be one thing if CB crashed and burned and failed to achieve their objective and then humanity overthrew A-Laws on their fucking own, but no. That is not the case.
>>13518941
I believe Kati directly said before the final battle that she in no way supports CB, and is only using them out of convenience to achieve her goals.
She even threatens that they'll be next after the battle's over (which ultimately didn't happen but it's an important distinction I think).
>>13518956
That's not what I mean. Yes Kati says the right thing, in fact most of the world does too. Except guess what? In the end, none of it matters, they lack the power, CB comes in and saves the day and therefore gets off free no problem. It's an idealistic romance kinda like how Batman pulls all sorts of illegal shit but gets away with it because he takes down the guys who the law can't catch.
Are you telling me when Batman: The Animated Series was airing the series wasn't portraying Bruce Wayne as the good guy? Cause everything points to it as positive, just like everything in 00 paints CB in a positive light.
Oh sure they will make comments on how CB is such and such, but will they SHOW it? No. CB is literally fucking faultless besides Ribbons. There's no corruption, there's no killing civilians, no nothing. It's pure black and white, while calling themselves grey.
>>13518968
If we want to be anal there is a lot of corruption, like the chinese girl and Alejandro Corner doing the fuck they want
>>13519467
Yes but they weren't CB. They were just associates. Alejandro wasn't even part of CB to begin with in any remote fashion, he just picked up Ribbons allowing him into the circle.
>>13519467
WLM never ever addresses her or her brother as part of CB. She always addresses CB as a separate entity. Always.
>>13519599
What? Alejandro was born in to a family that had been part of Celestial Being for centuries. He was just one of a long line of observers working for Celestial Being and his family had been planning a take over of the plan for quite a while by the sounds of things. He was just the one in a position to capitalize. There were plenty of other families acting as observers, engineers or what have you.
>>13519600
She doesn't though. She speaks of them as if she was a third party because she constantly expresses her admiration for their goal and it falls in line with her own desire to change the world (for the dumbest of reasons), but she worked directly for Celestial Being and did so from literally episode one. Which is why Sumeragi contacts her to find out if she was in place during episode one's reveals.
>>13509753
who'd care about that slut?
>>13518941
Did you honestly expect the bishonen Gundam pilots not to be the heroes that save the day?
It's the same thing that usually happens. They get put down for fighting and being terrorists, but get vindicated in the end so kids like them and buy their models.
If you don't like this then you might as well get out because Bandai will never ever change this.
>>13518572
Lets make Louise a member of Celestial Being! The organization she hates!
Lets make Saji a member of A-LAWS! People who do things he hates!
Lets get rid of the Ribbons build up for Ali! Even though it goes against Alis character!
No it's fucking stupid.
>>13519646
>(for the dumbest of reasons)
What were those again? I can only remember her being a total cunt to her brother and Nina's one decent moment in blowing her to kingdom come.
>>13520321
IIRC her brother was supposed to take over their family but he was a pussy so she was forced to. That made her mad salty
>>13520321
Her brother didn't have the business competence to ruin their family empire so she had to do it even though she had other plans with her life. (which is why she treats him like crap)
This "horrible" situation is why she allied with CB for them to upend the world. She didn't even have any specific ideas about that, just that she wanted the current status quo smashed and whatever that became she was fine with.
So yeah it's really dumb and nonsensical.
>>13513968
Is this from a doujin, or just implied lewd OC?
>>13520310
What about...
A big attack happens after the first season. Ribbons creates a bunch of staged CB terrorist attacks across the world to force his version of the A-Laws.
One of those places is Louises hospital.
Saji goes into a deep depression thinking that she's dead and joins the alaws as a recruit.
Little does he know that setsuna , while trying to stop the innovators plans tries to save that hospital and town, he instantly recognizes louise and saves her. This puts him at a disadvantage forcing him to flee.
They kill the people there to make it look like a major attack by setsuna and further demonize cb.
She's amnesic due to trauma and spends her days helping Marina in whatthefuckeverstan.
She eventually joins the resistance and gets a bionic hand.
Saji becomes a pseudo innovator and part of ribbons personal army.
A CB analogue created solely to put down any dissent under the guise of terrorist activity and having public slap fights with the A-laws so the A-laws look like the hero even while the stomp on their throats and further enslave them.
Anyway, Saji, Ali, Nena and Neil are the new thrones.
Saji and the thrones come to kazekstan(is that the name?) and start laying waste to shit because they simply refused to fall in line.
Just then the real CB Setsuna, alleluja, marie, maybe a chick version of tieria all show up and start slapping their shit.
Sanji goes ducktits and starts fighting setsuna on equal ground based on pure crazy and the power of his suit.
He gets the better of him takes him down and tells setsuna to get out of his gundam. He knows who setsuna is and ribbons and ali spun a really fucked up story to enforce their control over their new human weapon.
Setsuna gets out and takes off his helmet.
He's met with what's left of saji. A broken raging lunatic.
>>13520400
He rants and raves about how they took everything from him.
Louise is helping the resistance and marina get the survivors out and escaping.
Just then she notices one of the thrones standin over the man who saved her life, ranting about something.
She takes her sniper rifle and runs to the top of a building.
She takes aim and perfect kill shot, just then she notices something the ring. The same ring she has worn around her neck from the moment she was rescued.
She begins to remember their relationship then she remembers the destruction wrought by nena. She sees him with her and begins taking potshots at him to save setsuna and stop him from becoming a murderer.
He stops hops into his gundam setsuna hops into his and knocks saji off, he shoots at setsuna as he flies up trying to lead him away from the city, he gets pissed at being denied the chance to get even with the one he sees as being personally responsible for taking everything from him and destroying the world.
He finds where the shot came from and readies his gun the exposition screen focuses on her and then he notices a woman standing on top of a building. She's holding up an ring in her hand. She's screaming something at him.
He walks towards her slowly like a moth drawn to a bitchy spoiled flame and falls to his knees in front of her. He steps out of the cock pit takes off his helmet, he thinks he's hallucinating her again. She's crying and she starts screaming at him calling him every name in the book
>>13520400
>>13520509
>What about...
No, hell no. That's even worse than what we got in the show itself.
>>13515468
They can make super specialized robots and also regrow brain tissue with ease. Obviously they could make something as simple as that.
She asked for it.
Is it me, or did Louise have big breasts in S1?
And then in S2, they shrunk.
>>13523049
2big for Ribbons.
>>13523049
Probably the uniform smooshed them.
You should do a comparison between S1 Lou and Trap!Tieria balldance party Lou.
>>13523060
I shall.
>>13523049
Her boobs get big again in the movie
It's like Ribbons' drugs sucked the fat out of her breasts
>>13523122
Also consider possibly different bra styles used. They looked like they hung more freely in S1 so it's possible she just liked going bra-less back then.
>>13523129
Going bra-less is cute in my book.
>>13523125
I keep thinking it was just the uniform. But anon's research on balldance Lou should give us an answer.
>>13523055
>>13523125
Clearly Ribbons liked them small, or flat.
>>13523174
Well, there is Hiling's flatness, alright...
>>13515459
hm.
that brings up an interesting question
is science fiction going to get worse and worse as real world technology advances? where we'll start asking 'hey why didn't that guy get a robot arm' when a character loses a limb, because people will start getting shit like that all the time?
what happens to /m/ shows when reality starts getting more advanced than them?
>>13523197
Hopefully people are smart enough to remember when the thing in question was made or the time the setting is in so they don't do stupid shit like that.
>>13523203
Doesn't make any sense.
Ever go back and look at the sci-fi of the 80s?
Shit looks positivly adorable.
I remember a failed pilot of a show where a guy had to get a computer put in his brain I shit you not they made a big deal about him having FIVE MEGABYTES OF STORAGE IN HIS HEAD!!!
It was fucking quaint.
No, I think a lot of older sci-fi is just scene as anachronistic silliness or an interesting view into the past and possibilities of current tech.
>>13523197
Maybe people will be more open to new concepts rather than downplaying them.
Like the inferiority of baseline humans.
>>13523240
You are really fucking stupid.
Hmm, interesting.
My research is done, and pretty much Louise in her party dress is roughly the same size as her S1 self.
>>13523315
So it was the A-Laws uniform smooshing her boobs.
>>13523318
>A-Laws uniform
Why were they so green?
>>13523318
Pretty much, the outfit was weighting them down.
He is the guy who invited Setsuna effing Seiei to cheer up his girlfriend when she was feeling lonely/homesick(?). Saji was not exactly best boyfriend material on the first season.
>>13523286
Let me put it in another way.
99% of gundam and mecha and giant robots will be seen as fucking retarded nonsensical garbage to our children. It's unpopularity with that demo should tell you everything you need to know.
And with all creativity and curiosity being murdered so that the status quo of technological control by coroporations can be maintained sci-fi will never ever be anything of worth ever again.
Have fun.
>>13509753
post Nena blowing up that party
>>13523336
>Regene snacking
>Anew is a cook
I see where you got the idea from now. I know you're reading this.
Also, why is Hiling's hair so fluffy?
>>13523336
Cute picture.
>>13523336
Bring looks rather feminine there...
>>13523358
Here you go. Explosions.
>>13523197
For example, where the fuck is the internet in UC Gundam?
![55d2e99aa7a34eb642a0700097983bde[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/lQi4BkV.jpg "55d2e99aa7a34eb642a0700097983bde[1].jpg")
>>13523416
Based Zeon destroyed that garbage, of course.
Soma and Louise should have interacted more.
>>13523453
You went too far, Zeonscum.
>>13523462
Based on the way the internet is now, I would say it's a good thing
>>13523455
That would have been nice to see, those two having more chats.
>>13523345
What a load of rubbish. Jules Verne wrote The Time Machine 120 years ago. It's still a popular and beloved story in it's own right, with plenty of stories using it's central conceit (a time machine) to this day. Time machines are not only impractical by our current understanding of physics, they're flat out impossible. Which is a lot egregious. And yet they're still popular and seen as cool and interesting.
I did have fun laughing at the idea that large groups squashing creativity and curiosity is a new thing perpetuated by corporations and not the norm for thousands of years though, so you did achieve your aim, even if by a very different method than you intended.
>>13523337
So you could say her boobs were weighed down by gravity?
>>13524932Yes.
>>13523455
I'm still annoyed that Mr. Patricide didn't get killed until the movie and even then they let him go heroicly.
>>13520310
>Lets make Louise a member of Celestial Being! The organization she hates!
She hates the Gundams. Learning to differentiate between the people who call themselves the same thing but have starkly different means and motives would not only be great character development for her, it would be pretty timely.
>Saji!
Again, having him realize that his personal dreams are not worth the lives that are lost indirectly due to his efforts would be great character development (and is also an ethical struggle engineers IRL deal with).
>Ribbons
No. Ribbons was a shitty cartoon villain, pretty much everyone agrees about that. Everyone in the main cast had a reason to hate Ali, his philosophy directly opposed CB's and Setsuna's, and most important, he didn't sit in the background literally doing nothing for the entire first season. Ali is the best main antagonist for this series, who never was. Ali is Chris Nolan Joker to Setsuna's Chris Nolan Batman, making Ribbons Chris Nolan Bane; the first two are made for each other and the latter is a shitty meme and a shittier villain.
>>13527706
Ali did not have enough influence to be the main villain of the whole series, Ribbons did.
>>13527706
>Everyone in the main cast had a reason to hate Ali, his philosophy directly opposed CB's and Setsuna's, and most important, he didn't sit in the background literally doing nothing for the entire first season. Ali is the best main antagonist for this series, who never was
Ali was just a hired thug that worked solo. How could he possibly be a main Gundam villain? He couldn't run the evil organization that's required.
Why should I waste time with 00 when there are so many better Gundam shows from the 80s and 90s?
>>13527810
>Ribbons is just "handed" control of a gigantic army by way of whatever things he did happening off-screen
>Ali starts out as a small-time terrorist, forms a PMC, worms his way into foreign militaries, almost forces his way into a GN-X forces, kills two Meister's and steals one of their Gundams, ends the season having killed another.
>No matter what was happening in S1, he managed to stick himself right in the goddamn center of it
It would have been completely in character for him to have taken the slight divergences from what actually happened, in order to take Ribbons' place, and with far more gravitas backing his action, to boot.
>>13527851
>Gundam needs an evil organization
>It can't just be a guy or two who wants to fuck up both sides
I know that no one watched Gundam X and that everyone hates Wing but seriously come on.
Anyway, he headed up a PMC group. He had leadership experience.
>>13527873
>I know that no one watched Gundam X
And it's "epic" final battle was Garrod showing up and blowing the bros away with the TSC. The bros were a joke. It was more and more contrived why all 4 Gundam pilots didn't just attack at once and gangbang them to death.
>Anyway, he headed up a PMC group. He had leadership experience.
And he also left them all in the dust when joining the attacks against CB seemed more fun. Ali lacks motivation to be a main villain. He gives no fucks about anything. He just wants to kill. And he can do that without having to be an evil leader with an evil plan. He has no evil plan. He's too lazy to think of one because that time spent could be better spent killing folks.
>>13527863
That would turn him into a villain sue.
It is better to have him team-up/be subordinate to someone else.
>>13527852
Because you can only watch a series so many times before every line and ever shot is memorized.
Then you will have to seek something new no matter the quality. Because what else is there to do in life?
>>13527886
>And it's "epic" final battle was Garrod showing up and blowing the bros away with the TSC. The bros were a joke.
Woah you mean they had to use a superweapon to get rid of them? They sound pretty hard.
>And he also left them all in the dust when joining the attacks against CB seemed more fun. Ali lacks motivation to be a main villain. He gives no fucks about anything. He just wants to kill. And he can do that without having to be an evil leader with an evil plan. He has no evil plan. He's too lazy to think of one because that time spent could be better spent killing folks.
I know that you guys who want to ride Ribbons like a cowboy have this vested interest in portraying Ali as the mindless attack dog the writers turned him into in S2, but he was most emphatically not that in S1. If he'd just wanted to kill people, he wouldn't have trained a group of child soldiers, with their entrance exam to his little ragtag bunch of terrorists (that was able to strike all the way in Ireland?) being, "Kill your parents." If he'd just wanted to kill people, he would've just killed Johan on the spot. So on and so forth.
Ali's moves were all calculated to sow as much discord as possible. And I use the word "sow" purposely, because his actions weren't ends unto themselves; they were seeds, meant to push people further and further into conflict. Hell, you don't even have to analyze his actions, he straight up tells Kinue his motives: he doesn't say, "I like killing," he says, "I like war." If Ali were to kill indiscriminately, it could backfire; he could create a political situation where no one wants to fight. For Ali to be able to prolong warfare, he has to be careful about who he kills. Just because he likes knocking over the dominoes doesn't mean he isn't also proficient at setting them up grandly.
Competent writers not beholden to gunota would have recognized the opportunity they'd had with the character. Maybe they did. The groundwork was there.
>>13527905
There's no greater villain sue than Ribbons. He's completely unsatisfying because he doesn't earn anything.
>>13527706
>She hates the Gundams. Learning to differentiate between the people who call themselves the same thing but have starkly different means and motives would not only be great character development for her, it would be pretty timely.
No that would be shitty. Especially how it is described to happen. Louise was vengeful and hurt. She wouldn't join the organization she felt killed her family. Having her develop between the seasons into someone who joins Celestial Being is fucking stupid. Her trying to destroy them and the Gundams makes perfect sense. This is one of the worst ideas for a new Gundam Meister I've ever seen.
>Again, having him realize that his personal dreams are not worth the lives that are lost indirectly due to his efforts would be great character development (and is also an ethical struggle engineers IRL deal with).
No it would be shitty and go against his character. Saji is a fucking pacifist who wants nothing to do with fighting. Having him join an organization that starts battles is the furthest thing from what he would do. Saji doesn't want to help war efforts. He wants to live a civilian fantasy while ignoring the greater world. That was what he developed from.
Changing those characters that way is fucking retarded and goes against what they were built up as in season 1. You essentially made Saji like Billy.
>Ali and Ribbons
Ali is a fucking henchman who only cares about fighting. He isn't main villain worthy. He was handled terribly in S2 but turning him into the main villain would again go against the character. Ali is nowhere near worthy of main antagonist.
>>13528573
>Having her develop between the seasons
You mean, "Captured during an attempted raid on the Ptolemaios II, meeting Setsuna, realizing his connection with Saji, slowly warming up to the CB crew as she realizes they are not on the same side as the people who killed her family, finally being forced into a cockpit during an emergency that galvanizes her desire to destroy the "aberration" that is causing suffering in the world." Also she still gets to kill Nena.
>No it would be shitty and go against his character. Saji is a fucking pacifist who wants nothing to do with fighting. Having him join an organization that starts battles is the furthest thing from what he would do. Saji doesn't want to help war efforts. He wants to live a civilian fantasy while ignoring the greater world. That was what he developed from.
Have you never met a military contractor before? They're conflicted about this shit, too. No one wants to engineer bombs as a kid; life circumstances force you into weird positions where you're doing a completely benign job that nonetheless contributes to violence in the world.
It's not like we're comparing this course to a void, btw. Saji's actual development in the show was from the pacifist you describe him as TO a person who understands that fighting is sometimes necessary to bring about peace. In other words, the show has him developing AWAY from his values. In this alt, he sacrifices his values pragmatically in the timeskip, but then reclaims them during S2.
>Ali is a fucking henchman who only cares about fighting.
Saying this over and over doesn't make it any more true.
>>13528626
>You mean, "Captured during an attempted raid on the Ptolemaios II, meeting Setsuna, realizing his connection with Saji, slowly warming up to the CB crew as she realizes they are not on the same side as the people who killed her family, finally being forced into a cockpit during an emergency that galvanizes her desire to destroy the "aberration" that is causing suffering in the world." Also she still gets to kill Nena.
She already knew Setsuna and Saji were connected. Louise joined A-LAWS because they were against Gundams. and couldn't even get her hand repaired without Ribbons. She was going to have extreme psychological damage with or without drugs provided by him. She freaked the fuck out just seeing Exia at the beginning of season 2. Having her join Celestial Being is retarded. It doesn't matter if they denounced the Thrones because people in Louise's position aren't going to be logical and she probably wont believe them. The fuck is this obsession with having her join Celestial Being?
>Have you never met a military contractor before? They're conflicted about this shit, too. No one wants to engineer bombs as a kid; life circumstances force you into weird positions where you're doing a completely benign job that nonetheless contributes to violence in the world.
Except Saji isn't forced into anything. He had a safe job away from war. You're trying to force him into a position he would never take. It would go against his character.
>Saying this over and over doesn't make it any more true.
It is true. Ali loves war and fighting. War gives him jobs which gives him money and more fights.
>>13528710
>She already knew Setsuna and Saji were connected. Louise joined A-LAWS because they were against Gundams. and couldn't even get her hand repaired without Ribbons. She was going to have extreme psychological damage with or without drugs provided by him. She freaked the fuck out just seeing Exia at the beginning of season 2. Having her join Celestial Being is retarded. It doesn't matter if they denounced the Thrones because people in Louise's position aren't going to be logical and she probably wont believe them.
All of these are reasons why it would be better. It's a harder road to walk, which makes her walking it all the more compelling.
>Except Saji isn't forced into anything. He had a safe job away from war.
Except that he was working with terrorist sympathizers, apparently in a situation where he could be pressed into hard labor.
>It would go against his character.
I just explained why it wouldn't, and why it would actually be truer to his character than what actually happened.
>It is true. Ali loves war and fighting. War gives him jobs which gives him money and more fights.
Ali's moves were all calculated to sow as much discord as possible. And I use the word "sow" purposely, because his actions weren't ends unto themselves; they were seeds, meant to push people further and further into conflict. Hell, you don't even have to analyze his actions, he straight up tells Kinue his motives: he doesn't say, "I like killing," he says, "I like war." If Ali were to kill indiscriminately, it could backfire; he could create a political situation where no one wants to fight. For Ali to be able to prolong warfare, he has to be careful about who he kills. Just because he likes knocking over the dominoes doesn't mean he isn't also proficient at setting them up grandly.
>>13528850
>All of these are reasons why it would be better. It's a harder road to walk, which makes her walking it all the more compelling.
It's not just a harder word to walk, it's completely impossible as just the words Celestial Being sends her into a freak out. Louise joining Celestial Being at any point defeats the purpose of her losing her family in the first place. Louise was a normal girl who was thrown into conflict because Celestial Being agents went rogue. How does it make sense for her to join up with the parent organization instead of the people who take credit for defeating them? The power blocks defeated Celestial Being and as far as everyone knew they were gone for good.
>Except that he was working with terrorist sympathizers, apparently in a situation where he could be pressed into hard labor.
Which he didn't know. Saji thought he was working an honest job.
>I just explained why it wouldn't,
Which was bad. It goes against his character. Having Saji sacrifice his values during the timeskip is bad writing. Saji's only hope after losing his sister was to meet Louise in space. Saji wanted to be completely away from war. He wanted nothing to do with it. He wanted to pretend it didn't exist.
>Ali stuff
That does nothing to make him the final villain. All it points to is Ali wanting to fight. Ali's end game was eternal war but he was okay with being a cog as long as he sated his bloodlust. Ribbons was to lead humanity. Ribbons had better motives and fit with the theme of the show better and the direction it went it. 00 was leading up to humanity encountering aliens. The purpose of Celestial Being was to prep humanity for that and find someone to lead them. Ribbons corrupted the plan because he wanted to lead humanity. Setsuna only got into the position he was in due to Ribbons choosing him for Celestial Being. Ali of course played a part in it but Ali being a warmonger seems better for a mid series boss.
>>13528920
>It's not just a harder word to walk, it's completely impossible as just the words Celestial Being sends her into a freak out.
That wasn't established until S2. S2 is the problem.
>How does it make sense for her to join up with the parent organization instead of the people who take credit for defeating them?
If she's captured by them? Perfect sense. Because then she learns that Free Syrian Army!Celestial Being is not ISIS!Celestial Being.
>Which he didn't know. Saji thought he was working an honest job.
You're not really doing a good job of convincing me that this is any different from Saji working for the A-Laws, also thinking it was an honest job. Didn't Bright do the same thing until he realized that the Titans were corrupt?
>Which was bad. It goes against his character. Having Saji sacrifice his values during the timeskip is bad writing. Saji's only hope after losing his sister was to meet Louise in space. Saji wanted to be completely away from war. He wanted nothing to do with it. He wanted to pretend it didn't exist.
Again, it would be much more compelling, then, for his only option to get to space to be working as an engineer for the A-Laws. Either he doesn't understand what the A-Laws really stand for, or he convinces himself that he's not involved in their violence; he's just an engineer, doing his job, waiting for Louise.
What they DID with him was put him in a cockpit. I don't know how you sacrifice a pacifist's values more blatantly. You're arguing a contradiction.
>>13528920
> All it points to is Ali wanting to fight.
No, it points to Ali being a cunning planner. It points to Ali being the kind of person who knows what it takes to get what he wants. It points to Ali being the kind of person who can trick people into rallying to his side, thinking that they're fighting for some greater purpose when all they're doing is proliferating violence like a commodity. In S1, no matter where Setsuna looks, he's there, standing against everything stands for. They want peace; he wants war. And the only way for each side to get what it wants is to obliterate the other.
Ribbons wants to lead humanity. By doing... what exactly? Subjugating it with a private army? Ribbons is a Dragonball villain. Ribbons is Cobra Commander. Ribbons is not a serious philosophical antithesis to Setsuna's purpose. He's a cackling caricature, thrown in because gunota like you can't take anything more complex than, "The good guy fights the guy who wants to take over the world."
00's S1 was compelling because it got as close to real as Gundam ever has. Look at the world around you. If you think that the villain is some guy in a cave chanting the Koran, you're an idiot. If you think it's a religion, you're an idiot. The enemy is an impulse: the impulse to make war, and all the myriad people and plans that seek to prolong conflict. Ali represents that impulse. He's the true villain for anyone over the age of 13.
>>13528511
Ribbons was the fallen angel of Celestial Being.
All he had to do in order to be a major villain was to become evil.
>>13509753
Her ditching him was one thing.
The bit with him obcessing over her after for what was it 2-4 years was just pathetic and honestly made me wish she just kick him in the balls or get a restraining order.
>>13529300
Considering her maining happened in S1 im pretty sure she's react badly at any point after this.
If you wanna write a shitty OC in name only fic just go on fanfiction.net instead of trying to get others to agree with you. They have the echo chamber you appear to want.
