Char's Counterattack appreciation thread.
Lets talk about the good aspects of CCA. What were some moments that you personally enjoyed a lot? Favourite mobile suit? Or perhaps you'd like to discuss your favourite character? Anything positive goes.
Constructuve criticism is also welcome but you'll have to also comment on some of the above.
Quess is literally the worst Gundam girl ever
Axis battle is beautifully choreographed
Re-Jeezie VS Sazabi was also cool
The Sazabi is pretty sexy.
That's about it.
>>13494625
Hathaway is worst boy, worse than the jew Katz.
I actually enjoyed Char's Counterattack. The pacing might have been a little quick but not so much to the point where I was lost. Maybe I'm just more patient with kids, but Hathaway and Quess didn't seem like the worst thing ever. Fight choreography was good, we got the Nu, Sazabi, and Doga, and I really do like the ending. It feels like it's very hopeful for the future.
>>13494618
The last ten minutes or so, once Amuro and Char start to battle in earnest. The mechs are cool, the fights good and the ending is iconic and emotive, even if I don't think it conveys it's intention as well (Axis shock being driven by the will of all humanity) as it could.
>>13494618
>What were some moments that you personally enjoyed a lot?
The entire movie, but the final moments are clearly the best.
>Favourite mobile suit?
Jegan
>Constructuve criticism is also welcome but you'll have to also comment on some of the above.
I strongly believe people who dislike this movie are just shitposting or already watched it disliking it because of the shitposting.
I mean, I don't know how to put it, but IT JUST WORKS.
The nu is pretty sexy.
That's about it.
>>13494640
>Sazabi
Terrible.
>>13494618
I liked the credits.
That's about it.
>>13494708
> If I like something enough then anyone who doesn't share my feeling is just shitposting or biased because of shitposting
The sad thing is you probably do mean it and aren't just shitposting.
>>13494741
I do mean it. I mean, most of the criticism about is movie is resumed to either
>Char is acting out of character
or
>I don't like Quess/Hathaway
Which means they didn't even wanted to watch the movie and just did so they could shitpost about it.
I can also tell you why I like it if you want.
>>13494618
YOU BELONG TO ME
>>13494618
>Favourite mobile suit
I liked the Jegan
>What were some moments that you personally enjoyed a lot?
I liked when all those Jegans helped to push Axis back
>>13494765
>Which means they didn't even wanted to watch the movie and just did so they could shitpost about it.
What about people that liked the movie, but still think Quess and Hathaway are shit?And they are shit.
>>13494765
Nothing stopping you if you insist on doing it I guess. The movie is decently written and directed in my opinion, I just don't find the majority of it interesting or engaging.
I don't think Char's character in Char's Counterattack flows naturally from his character in Zeta. I don't think that is why he's a bad character. I think that's just a problem of changing priorities in productions and not a bad thing in and of itself. I think he's bad because he's just a rehash of 0079 Char and his relationship with Amuro or no reason beyond making money. It's a pretty dull direction to go in my opinion, since I think the rather anti-climactic but bittersweet interactions they have in Zeta are far more emotive, interesting and realistic of two people in their position. His character is fine what it's supposed to be. I just don't find it interesting. The rest of the cast are all good on paper too. I just don't find myself caring when I watch them, and I watched the film well before any hate had become popular here so it's not a poisoned well situation.
If you can't understand that then it's your problem. I think it's stupid, but nothing's stopping you being stupid if you want to be, the same as I'm sure you think I'm being stupid and nothing's stopping me.
>>13494732
The credits make the whole movie seem great in retrospect.
>>13494793
SAYONARA MINNAYASUMI
>>13494813
By the way, I'm not all down on the film, since as I wrote in >>13494669 I think the last ten minutes or so is great. I just don't think any of the stuff leading up to is particularly good beyond a technical level, since all the ingredients are good but I just don't find the way they're mixed tasty as it were.
>>13494809
But
>Quess and Hathaway are shit
is different from
>I don't like Quess/Hathaway
Quess and Hathaway are meant to be shit, they're fucking teenagers, most of them are fucking insufferable. The things they do in the movie are the result of them acting like teens and the way adults guided them. It's Tomino way of saying "this is your god-damn fault for leading kids to do the same mistakes you did".
Saying CCA is bad because you didn't like Quess/Hathaway is just disregarding half of the movie.
>>13494832
I should've said:
>They're shit and I don't like them, and they brought the overall quality of the film down.
I still like CCA. Now what?
I thought the scenes that lead up to OPs pic and that scene itself were fucking hilarious. Char wants Amuro to sense him and then the niggas just go at each other out of nowhere, just damn.
>>13494618
My fav character must be Gyuunei. Screw Quess.
>>13494618
Is this how homolust was born in Gundam?
>>13494659
This.
>>13494708
>I mean, I don't know how to put it, but IT JUST WORKS.
This as well
>>13494824
>The credits make the whole movie seem great in retrospect.
Whenever I listen to Beyond the Time and think about the events of CCA, Char, and Amuro's sacrifice, I like the movie even more than I do now.
>>13494841
>Now what?
I ask you in what aspect do you think they're bringing the quality of the film down. Because like I said, Quess and Hathaway's conflict make up for half of the movie. Without them the movie would be much more boring.
>>13494618
I can understand why some people wouldn't like the movie.On a superficial glance it's pretty superficial but the more I think about it the better I like it.
It's my favorite UC work even more so than the original series.While MSG was more of a personal journey CCA is a statement about human nature as a whole.
It does great at summing up and continuing the themes from Zeta and I find it to be also a great character study.Beautiful stuff.And so on and so on.I could talk about it for hours.
As for Beyond the time I didn't like at at all at first.
>What does this silly love song have to do with anything?
But then some time later I happened to hear it again and I was like:
>Ooh.So that's how it was.
The Re-GZ
Such a sleek re-imagining of Zeta
I like it more than the Nu Gundam, 2bh
>>13494625
>waahhh a teen girl didnt act all girly and cute just like in all the animes i watch
Pro-tip: teen girls are brats in real life, just like Quess. I give CCA props for showing her realistically instead of cutesy bullshit pandering to virgin men in their 20s, just like every anime today does.
>>13495586
Agreed
Something that I always liked about Sazabi is that it is obviously based on the Gelgoogthe Mobile Suit he was piloting when Lalah was killed. I always thought that that was fitting, that he tried to recreate the battle with Amuro, only, without Lalah to get in the way.
![[OZC]Mobile Suit Gundam Char's Counterattack [2011 Release].mkv_snapshot_00.33.57_[2015.03.27_03.50.03].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/jCVrQRS.jpg "[OZC]Mobile Suit Gundam Char's Counterattack [2011 Release].mkv_snapshot_00.33.57_[2015.03.27_03.50.03].jpg")
That the Feddies sold Axis to Neo Zeon for gold
And that they did this order to pay for social security
My favorite thing about the movie is that the coolest shit in it is totally backgrounded for new characters, etc.
This is also my LEAST favorite thing about this movie.
The ending is awesome. Really. You could pretty much just skip to that and miss very little.
>>13499616
"Oh GET OFF THE CROSS, Char."
Char's Counterattack, the debut of the glorious JEGAN
>>13499651
I never understood what made Char go nuclear in this.He was somewhat decent in Zeta and then he goes full genocide.Did all the trauma in his past catch up to him and break him?
>>13498243
One of the few issues I have with the Sazabi is that it's beam sabres are different. If they were the same I'd like the suit a hell of a lot more honestly
>>13494625
Quess is Tomino's take on the standard strong independent Ghibli Girl.
>>13499720
Pretty much.Nothing fun happened in Zeta either.
>>13499616
Char died for your sins.
>>13499616
>>13499616
SYMBOLISM
Chan was cute, it makes up for Beltorchika
>>13500117
Is this real?
>>13498243
Looks a bit more like the Marasai to me. Especially the head. There was already two Gelgoog based designs in Zeta as well: the Galbaldy Beta and Dijeh. Pretty popular design in-universe!
>>13502433
Ku Klux Klan in my Gundam?!!
Char's Counterattack is great because it allowed Khyron's Counterattack to happen.
This one is probably my favorite MS from CCA.
>>13494618
I always thought this film was a bit of wasted potential. It makes me wish that Tomino had gone through with his first plan. The "Char is MC of ZZ" because, then we wouldn't have got this and we wouldn't have had to put up with fucking Judau, who is, without a doubt, WORST! GUNDAM PILOT! EVER!
And no, CCA wouldn't have happened, Tomino pushed to do one or the other, Sunrise execs agreed to do the movie.
I think Quess was Tomino's best take on a female teenager being manipulated and consumed by war in terms of design and character. Quess was a good character (she also had a good voice actor in the original or dub despite the different approaches), and it's a shame CCA's only a movie.
>>13506462
> "Char is the MC of ZZ"
Char was never going to be the main character of ZZ. He was going to be A character, but he wasn't even going to be one of the main cast - he would just appear in the second half working with Haman but plotting against her, piloting against Judau for a while to secretly train him to be a better pilot and then when opportunity arose killing the heads of the Earth Federation and assassinating Haman.
There would have been no Char's Counterattack though, since Judau would succeed in inspiring the majority of people to leave Earth, the corrupt heads of the Earth Federation would be gone and Char would have no real quarrel with Amuro or Earth in general. Judau was going to be a bit of a different character too by the sound of it, and the entire thing would have a different tone that would fit more in to the general tone of UC, so you might have liked it regardless.
>>13499720
He was fighting the oppressive Earth Sphere regime for spacenoids in both.
CCA has problems as a movie but as an ending it is great.
I like how the characters discuss char a lot and have their own view on him which is partly down to his manipulation. In the end though Char is a pathetic man which I think a lot of people don't get. For most of his life he has lived various lies and only focused on battle, it is all he really knows. He states philosophies and ideals but he is willing to bend or break any of them if he thinks he will get something better or somewhere quicker. Lalah was the one light in his life and he used her as a weapon and eventually a shield, not only that but by a guy better than him who was able to connect with her more. I found it fitting that he was overcome with the passion of humanity wanting to do something good.
>>13504807
>Zaku
Uhhhh, that's a hizack, family.
>>13499720
>He was somewhat decent in Zeta
I don't get why anyone thinks Char was a good guy in Zeta, just because you are on the good team doesn't mean you are a good guy working towards nice goals. He was still the same scheming and lying self. He was working with Haman until he wasn't getting his exact way, he said cyber newtypes are okay as humanity needs to grow faster and wants to force politicians off earth. The ideas he pushes are no different from Scirocco, you know the main bad guy in zeta
Three lines very much stick out to me with that. That he only lives for war unlike Amuro, he is not on anyone's side and "I have never betrayed anyone." If that last one doesn't show the amount of mental gymnastics Char has going on I don't know what will
>>13507586
> He was still the same scheming and lying self.
Not really. He doesn't scheme at all during the show and only really lies about his own identity, which is more because he wants to distance himself from his past as Char Aznable than because he's trying to deceive anyone for a particular reason.
> He was working with Haman until he wasn't getting his exact way
He worked with her because he was ordered to, and stopped working with her when it became obvious she and Scirocco had a deal too. Hell he didn't even want to work with her at first and it was only when the situation became desperate that the AEUG did it regardless of him. He honored it because he was part of the AEUG, but he obviously didn't approve of it.
> he said cyber newtypes are okay as humanity needs to grow faster
Well, he's right. There's nothing fundamentally wrong with cyber newtypes, any more than there is something fundamentally wrong with cyber limbs or any other kind of medical procedure. He also expressed it solely as a practical solution, since nature is slow and could take thousands, if not millions of years to do the same thing.
> and wants to force politicians off earth.
I don't honestly remember the context of this line, but I'm willing to bet it's merely a sign of frustration on his part and not some kind of sign that he's secretly showing his true character, similar to how the cyber newtype discussion with Dr. Hasan is just him musing about how the process can speed up nature and not a sign that he's secretly plotting something or even a show of his true intentions given that he has no plans involving cyber newtypes even in Char's Counterattack.
>>13508008
> The ideas he pushes are no different from Scirocco, you know the main bad guy in zeta
What similar ideas do they push? Scirocco isn't even the villain because of the ideas he pushes, he's the main villain because of the way he pushes them. He wants to set up an empire with himself as the power behind the throne and because he shows a willingness to use anyone and say anything to get his way. Neither of which is true of Quattro. Quattro never shows any political ambitions and in fact resists them when others try and push them on him, and he flat out refuses to pretend to have any feelings for Reccoa despite her obvious desires. In fact, one of the few times he loses his cool in the show is when he realizes that Haman has made a puppet out of Mineva.
> Three lines very much stick out to me with that. That he only lives for war unlike Amuro, he is not on anyone's side and "I have never betrayed anyone." If that last one doesn't show the amount of mental gymnastics Char has going on I don't know what will
The first is from Beltorchika, who has an obvious bias, and hell, Amuro corrects her a few seconds later and says that she's wrong. Given that she was basing her opinion of how Char couldn't live without war on a superficial impression and she'd only just met the guy, I think I'll take Amuro's opinion over hers. The second isn't a line and just supposition on your own part and goes against the entirety of Zeta, given that he quite blatantly is on the AEUG's side throughout. The third is a refutation of allegiance by someone who never wanted to be part of that alliance in the first place, and in fact, isn't even in an alliance with them at the time.
>>13508013
It's also important to keep in mind that Char is and has for a long time been a broken person, in that he's lived through some shit and come out the other side kind of fucked up psychologically. It should be no surprise that he twists things to justify them in his own mind. Doing so is neither a sign that someone is bad or that they are doing something bad though. At the time he says it he is trying to kill Haman for having used Mineva as a figurehead, not trying to manipulate or dismiss his own alliance with her.
Char might show frustrations at the limits of his powers and wishing that more could be done, but he works within a team as well as anyone else in the cast, obeys the commands of the AEUG (better than Kamille or Katz frankly) and works towards a common good goal throughout the show. He's about as good as anyone else in the entire franchise can be said to be. Picking out lines where he expresses frustration does not mean that he's not any better, especially when you contrast that frustration with his actual actions.
>>13508013
>The first is from Beltorchika, who has an obvious bias, and hell, Amuro corrects her a few seconds later and says that she's wrong. Given that she was basing her opinion of how Char couldn't live without war on a superficial impression and she'd only just met the guy
Char says something similar in episode 7 before that when speaking with Kamille. Also, note the contradiction from episode 6 in the first two images.
Is Char possibly a bullshitter?
>>13499720
![[EG]Zeta_Gundam_15_BD[3DBE7E6A].mkv_snapshot_14.10_[2015.11.16_04.02.49].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/zxDHuc6.jpg "[EG]Zeta_Gundam_15_BD[3DBE7E6A].mkv_snapshot_14.10_[2015.11.16_04.02.49].jpg")
>>13508013
>Given that she was basing her opinion of how Char couldn't live without war on a superficial impression and she'd only just met the guy, I think I'll take Amuro's opinion over hers.
How deep?
>>13507586
>my sides
>>13508771
>Is Char possibly a bullshitter?
Who, Char? Mr "I've learned from my mistakes", only to turn around and try throwing Axis at earth?
A man who's lived his entire life as a mess of secret identities, who feels so inadequate without a mask to hide behind that he needs to wear shades at all times? Whode entire character development in Zeta can be summed up as a mid-life crisis?
Nah, I'm sure he's not a pathological liar at all, and is probably very trustworthy.
>>13508771
>he isn't wearing his glasses in one shot
>he is in the other
This has significant meaning.
The only thing you need to know about Char in CCA is that Sayla called him out on wanting to create a world for newtypes and she was fucking right the entire time.
>>13508771
> contradiction
What contradiction? He's speaking about why he became a soldier originally in one part and why he's fighting now in the other. They don't need to match up exactly, because he's clearly speaking about different times in his life.
>>13508922
> Lies to the entire cast about everything in Zeta
> Changes his views every 10 seconds
Neither of those are true. And people give way more focus to "omg it takes place on a stage, it's so deep man" than it really deserves. Haman, Char and Scirocco call attention to the idea that each of them are actors or being theatrical several times through out that section so having it take place on a stage gives it thematic resonance on that ground alone and doesn't need Char to be lying to give it depth.
>>13508936
Who knows? The point of newtype connections is that you recognize that shit about people instantly though, and Char and Amuro establish a pretty good relationship in Zeta, so Amuro probably didn't think it was that deep.
>>13508964
> Nah, I'm sure he's not a pathological liar at all, and is probably very trustworthy.
He actually does come off throughout Zeta as trustworthy and not a pathological liar at all. It's only through the revisionism of Char's Counterattack that you can look at Zeta Char and go "welp, he had to be lying to make Char's Counterattack" work I suppose.
>>13509001
> he's hiding when he explains why he became a soldier
We already know why he became a soldier though and also why he might choose to hide it from a random kid he just met and hasn't divulged his identity to yet (even if the kid has a pretty good idea of it). So what exactly does that prove? That he doesn't want to admit he's Char? A thing we already know and which he's consistent about throughout Zeta.
>>13509970
>and Amuro establish a pretty good relationship in Zeta, so Amuro probably didn't think it was that deep.
Why? If the point of Newtype connections is that you see through all the bullshit why wouldn't Amuro get along with someone if he can see a good person buried under a huge mess of neurosis and battlelust? And some of his impression of Char being kind could have been picked up from Newtypeing with Lalah.
>>13510468
> why wouldn't Amuro get along with someone if he can see a good person buried under a huge mess of neurosis and battlelust?
I'm not sure I get your question, given that they did get along once they met under more amicable circumstances. They didn't get on in 0079 since they generally met on a battlefield where each was fighting for something that was basically mutually exclusive to the other's desires and then Lalah died, cementing their relationship's tone for the moment. That's not an environment conducive to friendship, no matter how well you like or understand the other guy's point of view.
>>13511313
It was a rhetorical question. He sees that there's a good person in Char somewhere so he can get along with him when they're not trying to kill each other. That doesn't necessarily mean that Char doesn't prefer war to peace
>>13494618
It's shit
>>13494625
In her defense they messed up with her head. Nina was a genuine bitch and Merrybell is downright shit.
>>13494640
>>13494714
Both the Nu and Sazabi are incredibly sexy. Superb curves and lot of restrain, Gundam designs doesn't get much better.
>>13494618
It's a fantastic conclusion to our favorite asshole Char. People who genuinely think he was out of character there are complete dumbasses and probably should stick to meme shows like Code Geass.
>>13514265
> Merrybell
> constantly shit talks both Guin and Gym
> just wants to get a good fight
> uses bit mobile suits in combat
> downright shit
I'll take Merrybell over any of the women in AGE at the very least.
>>13514300
You missed the best part of her
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zINFebWzrZ0
>>13494625
Quess was an annoying bitch but then that was literally also the whole entire point of the character and even then, she had reasons for being as fucked up as she was.
As for me, I still need to watch Zeta and ZZ but CC is one of my favorite anime movies ever, even if I was lost the first time watching it. All I know is the nu-Gundam is probably one of my favorite Gundam mobile suits ever.
