Why were Lacus and Kira so focused on stopping Durandal while lipstick Hitler was literally committing mass genocide?
Because SEED and any spinoff of it is shit
>>13490094
I really don't understand why we have daily threads about it. Does SEED have its own Valvrager or something?
Kira and Lacus's only concern was getting ORB out of the war. They didn't even attempt to investigate who sent the assassins, only assuming they were ZAFT because of the mechs used (when everyone is using stolen ZAFT MS, including Kira and Lacus) and Andy saying that the assassins were coordinators.
Destiny only works if everyone takes their stupid pills.
>>13490138
>I really don't understand why we have daily threads about it. Does SEED have its own Valvrager or something?
Even after ten years, the sheer stupidity of Destiny is still baffling.
>>13490161
Well, they were right really. They also assumed it was ZAFT since ZAFT had a fake Lacus at the time, which is a pretty good motive in and of itself. Not conclusive by any means, but when put with the others it does add up to one.
>>13490138
/m/ loves talking about bad shows, and SEED Destiny is legendary.
Why stop it?
>>13490094
How bout Astray manga?
>>13490161
How could they be coordinators, didn't mirrai take one down, and every single time we see coordinators take on naturals hand to hand, the coordinator just utterly stomps them.
Because Fukada can't write
>>13490065
Because Morosawa is an idiot that didn't realize that just because she didn't intend Kira and Lacus to take out Djbril (That was the one victory she allowed Zaft) doesn't mean they should just pretend he doesn't exist.
Someone pointed this out to her obviously because the very next ep has a quick scene of them hastily saying they'd totally be up there kicking Djbril's ass but AA isn't capable of making it back to space yes so they'll leave it to Zaft. But the damage is mostly that.
Really if it wasn't for the Requiem thing team Lacus wouldn't look that dickish, because they'd only been a minor inconvenience to Zaft as a whole until them.
>>13490138
Yes. His name is Abicion. And if he's any indication a decade passing and most people not liking the show either is still not enough for daily bitchfests.
>>13490290
Because even coordinators job to MC's if they're naturals.
They're still coordinators though, otherwise they wouldn't be able to match Andy in hand to hand until he pulled his Gun arm. And they couldn't pilot the Zaft MSs (Some naturals can yes, but not these idiots who were barely competant) Really this should never even be up for debate. They're coordinators.
>>13490161
>only assuming they were ZAFT because of the mechs used (when everyone is using stolen ZAFT MS, including Kira and Lacus) and Andy saying that the assassins were coordinators
To be fair to them, though it's still badly written, it'd be kind of a stretch at that point to pass it off as anyone else.
Yes, MS are stolen left, right, and center in SEED, but if that were the case here, they'd have made some mention of it, even if not in the show at least in some supplemental material. Nowhere has that EVER been floated - and Astray alone has offered up some whoppers of weird 'things you didn't know were going on'.
On top of that, there's one big thing you forget to mention here that looks bad for ZAFT - shortly after the botched hit, Gilbert has Meer come forward to drum up support for his war among the general Coordinator populace.
and THIS is where it starts looking bad for Gilbert, thanks to two words - Meer Campbell.
At this point, we've already learned Gilbert has made his own ringer for Lacus to pacify the populace of the PLANTs. Prior to the hit, her message is fairly benign and very Lacus-like, asking people to slow their roll on calling for vengeance.
Then after the hit, her song changes its tune - suddenly the public Lacus is trying to bolster support for a war effort.
This is the move that fucks Gilbert in terms of it looking to be anyone else - any other faction gets word of the real Lacus in ORB, they're not going to want to kill her. Even someone like Djibril, who for all of his idiocy, shows some knowledge in manipulation of public opinion, would recognize that he could do more damage to ZAFT by exposing Gilbert's grand lie than simply bumping off the Princess of Peace directly.
(cont)
>>13490657
(cont)
On top of this, the decision by the ZAFT team to self-destruct their suits reduces the likelihood they were stolen. If another faction was using ZAFT machines, why cover that up? It would be more to their benefit to have the assassins just kill themselves and leave the MS out front and center to make ZAFT look bad.
Occam's Razor and the old question of 'Who benefits?' both put this pretty heavily on Gilbert's shoulders. And while people like to speculate on the possibilities born out of the sloppy way the entire situation is written, and let's be honest, it is SLOPPY, the fact is, there's no really logical way to exonerate Gilbert here.
As much as people love the 'Lacus is a secret puppet master' theory, it's never really had a strong leg to stand on beyond the fact the fanbase just doesn't like her. There's not even an inkling of possibility opened up for it in side materials amid all the other crap they cast on the table.
It stands to reason Gilbert's guilty. The show just did a lousy job of following through on it.
>>13490675
>As much as people love the 'Lacus is a secret puppet master' theory, it's never really had a strong leg to stand on beyond the fact the fanbase just doesn't like her. There's not even an inkling of possibility opened up for it in side materials amid all the other crap they cast on the table.
Terminal.
>>13490857
Terminal is a glorified warehouse. It has a grand total of six mobile suits and one ship. If it was capable of shitting out a force of new-model ZAFT mobile suits and assassins to pilot them to have Lacus perform a hit on herself, one that nobody besides her own faction was witness to and that she made little to no serious effort to bring to anyone else's attention, you would think their support in the final battle would have been more than the main characters and three girls.
>>13490216
Not just legendary, but also the reason that /m/ existed in the first place
>>13490952
>Terminal is a glorified warehouse. It has a grand total of six mobile suits and one ship.
Terminal is a spy organization with moles within both the EA and ZAFT. These moles take classified information, hand them over to Terminal (an act of treason), who then proceeds to distribute this information to the other factions. In addition, Terminal has stolen ZAFT prototype, deleted any data on them from ZAFT's database, and then proceeded to complete them.
>>13490138
SEEDposting is a favorite pasttime of these parts, you must be new here.
>>13491090
>still believing in this debunked myth
>>13490094
>and any spinoff of it is shit
Hey, back it off. Stargazer was amazing.
>>13490161
>>13490657
>>13490675
>It stands to reason Gilbert's guilty. The show just did a lousy job of following through on it.
As Cross Ange proved, Fukuda is interested in the "what", not the "how". It's obvious that Durandal did the hit on Lacus, but adding any logic onto that is not important for this imbecile director.
>>13490274
>>13491156
Clockwork
>>13491247
Clockwork what? It's okay to shit on SEED and Destiny (and with good reason,Astray as well, in my opinion), but Stargazer is among the best Gundam stories out there.
>>13490065
why did the plot had to plot?
>>13490675
>As much as people love the 'Lacus is a secret puppet master' theory, it's never really had a strong leg to stand on beyond the fact the fanbase just doesn't like her.
There's also the fact that Lacus just takes too many risks to have actually planned to take over from the start.
Example when Zaft notices the Terminal Eternal base, does Lacus sneak off in Eternal and let the factory workers be sacrificed? No, she takes Eternal full out to get the forces attention and then goes on a suicide run to Earth to drop SF and IJ into Orb territory so they can continue the fight, leaving herself almost certainly doomed until Kira miraculously shows up because he ignored her wish for him not to stay with AA.
And she didn't even have to do it herself either, she could have told Andy to do it hid in the factory herself and sent her minions out to die for her, but she did it herself.
Those aren't the actions of an evil overlord.
>>13490065
Apparently they think ambiguously evil is worse than cartoony evil
>>13490065
LACUS LIED
1 MILLION COORDINATORS DIED
>>13492212
>Those aren't the actions of an evil overlord.
>implying evil overlords don't risk life and limb to accomplish their wildest ambitions
Lacus was literally Hitler.
The how isn't important, though. Fukuda would back me up on that.
>>13492998
This.
Lacus is a bad man. Just trust me on this. :^)
>>13490065
They were reading the script, and the script says DURANDAL'S GONNA BE THE BADGUY, so it's okay if they do nothing while telling the protagonists that Durandal is the true villian villain.
Even when like 2 million people die, they're like 'oh no, this is terrible....but DURANDAL'S DESTINY PLAN WILL BE EVEN WORSE'
>>13490657
>>13490675
Your logic makes sense. Too bad the director never thought of it.
>>13496607
I'm pretty sure Fukuda just thought "They're Zaft guys in Zaft suits, the audience will think their Zaft" and didn't expect everyone to try so hard to out think it.
Really though, it's just because people hate Lacus and want her to be wrong (because the hit validates everything she does from that point). The regular Seed fanbase that the show was written for, loves Lacus so they'd never think of it (Japan jokes this too, but only with Gunota who hate Seed anyway, and I'm pretty sure they're aware it's BS) and in fact simply opposing Lacus and Kira was all it really took for the fanbase to turn against Durandal and Shinn without morality of anyone really being considered.
>>13496626
>I'm pretty sure Fukuda just thought "They're Zaft guys in Zaft suits, the audience will think their Zaft" and didn't expect everyone to try so hard to out think it.
Actually the most obvious hint, and it was rather ham-fisted, was the assassins saying out loud that they need to both kill Lacus AND destroy her corpse.
This was the one major hint that Gilbert sent them, because it means the intention isn't to kill Lacus but to replace her, with no one able to prove Meer was a fake.
Now of course, the anti-Lacus group fought tooth and nail against this when the show aired. Thus proving that Fukuda is right and there is no point actually explaining anything. The audience is too stupid to notice anyway.
>>13496691
To be honest even if they spent 10 minutes of an episode explaining in every single detail how Durandal planned that, it's not like it would change anything. People would probably just argue that it would be for the best if Lacus died, sneaky assasination or not.
>>13496626
>Really though, it's just because people hate Lacus and want her to be wrong
I don't necessarily want her to be WRONG, I want her to struggle to have doubts and questions. I want the rest of the world to question why she abandoned them int he first place.
I want soldiers to not lay down their arms at the very mention of her name
>>13496747
To be fair Lacus and Kira do have doubts and questions...they just never act on them. It's basically "Hmmm...maybe we're going about this the wrong way....nah nevermind."
Episode 31 has both the Orb soldiers and Cagalli comparing notes and saying Earth forces are the most in the wrong, and Kira himself telling Murrue that maybe it wasn't Durandal and they should support Zaft and help him take down the EA. That's basically why Kira rushes to Berlin and exclusively attacks EA and at least tries to cooperate with Zaft there instead of his usual MO of shooting at everyone that isn't from AA.
Then Angel Down happens and Kira goes back to believing Durandal is out to get them and they cannot cooperate with Zaft in any way whatsoever.
>>13496747
>I want the rest of the world to question why she abandoned them int he first place.
Because Lacus DIDN'T want to rule the world!
That was the one thing Destiny tried to show, but the messed up ending screwed it up.
From the very beginning, Lacus never wanted to follow her father's footsteps. But after his death his followers rally behind her surname. She did what she could to end the war in SEED but then ran off to retire as soon as that was done.
The one thing Destiny, and Gilbert, was all about was a war between what you are destined to do, vs what you actually wanted to do. Lacus was a born leader, the same way Kira was a born soldier. But Lacus doesn't want to be a leader, and Kira doesn't want to be a soldier... And until the start of SEED they got away with it.
But their "destiny" caught up with them. Gilbert won the argument because now Kira is a General and Lacus is the ruler of the Earth Sphere. People who hate the pair might argue that was what they wanted all along, but it is obvious they are only doing this because they had to. Because their genes forced them to. Because there is nobody else.
THIS was Gilbert's victory. But the delayed scripts and multiple recaps ruined all that.
>>13496766
It didn't try to show it at all. Lacus fucked up big time by abdicating her responsibility after the previous war. She knocked over the sand castle it's on her to build a new one.
What we got however was everyone treating her with more reverence than Mother Teresa, Mary mother of God, and 9 popes combines.
The fact that she failed wasn't even alluded too
>>13496794
>Lacus fucked up big time by abdicating her responsibility after the previous war.
Responsibility? WHY should she suddenly be responsible for running everything, it's not like she was elected. Lacus gave the job of ruling to the people of PLANT, who democratically elected a Chairman to rule them. In what way is it wrong that Lacus decided NOT to set up a military dictatorship?
>>13496794
She left a well organized government in place. One made up of her father's right hand woman and other Clyne loyalists. Career politicans who were unjustly imprisoned and most importantly didn't commit acts of treason by fighting against Plant. They're honestly a better fit than her and the only reason it failed is because all these people randomly disappear in Destiny because otherwise the plot wouldn't work. (seriously we see the desert guy in a cameo but Canaver never shows up once)
>>13496798
>WHY should she suddenly be responsible for running everything
BECAUSE SHE RUINED EVERYTHING! You can't just tralala your way into the middle of everyone's conflict if you're not gonna stick around to help out.
She didn't have to be the president but she sure as shit had to be there.
>>13496803
she fucked off to her beach house
>>13496760
Then Kira should have opened a communications channel with the Minvera or some ZAFT soldiers to explain. 99% of the problems with the show would have been solved with people talking. Shinn arrived in Berlin and attacked Destroy. Suddenly Neo grapples him and Shinn stops fighting Destroy. Kira shoots Destroy and yells at Shinn. Shinn attacks him. Anybody in their right fucking mind would have went hmm
>Guy shows up and attacks robot
>Another guy stops him
>I attack robot
>Guy starts attacking me
>Maybe I should find out what the fuck is going on?
>Hey why are you attacking me?!
>The pilot of that thing is a sweet girl I know that hates war and she is being forced to fight!
>Oh shit, well lets try and save her
>Oh shit, maybe that Freedom pilot isn't such a bad guy after all?
There we go.
>>13496822
>GUISE WAIT, STOP FIGHTING AND LETS UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER
fuck you
>>13496794
>It didn't try to show it at all. Lacus fucked up big time by abdicating her responsibility after the previous war.
It wasn't really her responsibility.
In fact, that's what makes the ending of GSD so off putting in that it takes all of the odd cast members and puts them into high positions in the government they just finished overthrowing.
It's like ending 0079 with Bright ruling over Earth.
>>13496810
>She didn't have to be the president but she sure as shit had to be there.
Then you would just accuse her of being Vladimir Putin and ruling PLANT by proxy. She left because no one voted for her to be Queen, so there is no reason why she should suddenly hang around like some shadow government. The people of PLANT elected their own leader, why can't they be left to rule themselves?
In a way Durandal won Destiny. Kira/Lacus end up doing jobs that their genetics were set up for them to do.
>>13496826
It's common fucking sense. If any universe needs understanding it's genocide 'em all CE.
>>13496850
>>13496826
and this is why I love M3
>>13490675
I always thought it was pretty clear that ZAFT was behind it, because I wouldn't expect a Gundam series to have the writing capability or foresight to make it anything other than what it obviously looks like. What I don't get is why Gilbert decided that he'd go ahead and push Meer anyway, when Lacus could have stepped forward at ANY MOMENT.
It's not like he doesn't know she didn't die, so what gives? It's a risk, a much too risky move to pull off and could have blown up at any time, except instead of doing anything about it, Lacus fucks off to space instead. Why a Lacus clone anyway? Why not try to build up Meer into something big on her own? It's not like he didn't have the time to do it.
Wasn't everyone convinced that Lacus was a traitor when Patrick said so, or where all of those people crazy Zala supporters? Why does she have so much sway over the people?
Why throw her at Athrun anyway? Was he planning on Athrun coming back? What if he didn't, and people started asking where Athrun was? What if Athrun publicly got married to Cagaili? What, would they say that they broke up secretly? Why was Athrun so okay with a fake Lacus in the first place? Shouldn't he have felt something was odd?
>>13496810
>she fucked off to her beach house
She fucked off to her beach house, after hiding all their surviving equipment, and having the actual politicians in the Clyne Faction actually start running things. All of whom got sucked into a plot hole so Destiny could happen.
>>13496822
Kira does try. He could have been a bit less yelly about it but he does open a channel to Shinn saying why he stopped fighting the big giant monster MS because it was going to kill him otherwise. Shinn (Despite looking somewhat shocked that Freedom is actually speaking to him) just goes durr and doesn't say anything.
Later Shinn opens a channel to Kira but only to rant about how he doesn't understand what's going on...and then refuses to elaborate, leaving Kira to just stop and float there since he had no idea what to make of this.
So both tried to talk to each other but refused to say anything coherent, though more fault is with Shinn since he had two oppertunities to explain the situation to Kira and didn't do so.
>>13496854
>What I don't get is why Gilbert decided that he'd go ahead and push Meer anyway, when Lacus could have stepped forward at ANY MOMENT.
He had no choice. He actually debuted Meer before the hit was even ready and then it was too late. Once break the world happened he needed to get Meer out to begin his plan, probably hoping the hit would work, but when it didn't, it was too late. He had to keep it rolling.
Lacus meanwhile presumably doesn't out her because pirate Lacus radio broadcasts would tell Durandal right where AA was.
>Why was Athrun so okay with a fake Lacus in the first place? Shouldn't he have felt something was odd?
He knew all along, but Durandal convinces him he needs her to calm the population. Athrun gets increasingly uncomfortable with Meer as time goes on and she gets more and more pro war, but by the time he's really in a position to call Durandal out again, it's pointless because Durandal's already trying to shut him up.
As for pairing Meer with Athrun, that's all Meer's idea, since she had little to no clue what Lacus is really like and she thinks she's still engauged to Athrun and is all lovey with him. Athrun for some reason doesn't ever say that was over a year ago, probably because he doesn't want to mess up the "peace" plan.
>>13496858
>Kira does try. He could have been a bit less yelly about it but he does open a channel to Shinn saying why he stopped fighting the big giant monster MS because it was going to kill him otherwise. Shinn (Despite looking somewhat shocked that Freedom is actually speaking to him) just goes durr and doesn't say anything.
Kira does not ask him why he stopped fighting. Kira yells at him to not be a sitting duck.
Shinn did not open a channel to Kira.
Shinn is the one more at fault? Kira is the one who has been aggressive to him since the day they first encountered each other. Kira is the one who flies into battlefields spamming beams while his sister tells people to stop fighting. Kira should have asked Shinn what the hell was going on.
>>13496822
>The pilot of that thing is a sweet girl I know that hates war and she is being forced to fight!
There's still like a thousand people dying every for every second they fail to stop her.
>>13496879
Yet Kira found it in his heart to save the person with her in a custom unit because he knew them. Yet Kira spared Yzak who killed civilians too.
>>13496884
It's not really a case of forgiving her crimes or not but rather one of stopping them asap, and he didn't spare Yzark whilst he was in the middle of killing civilians.
>>13496879
It's not like he doesn't know that. The first thing he does once he appears is immediately go for the kill, and got closer than anyone else ever did. The only reason Stella didn't die by his hand right then and there is because Neo ran into him and told him Stella was inside, then he stops to take a closer look.
The fact is that Stella has to be stopped, but the question is that does she have to be killed to do it.. Ultimately, this event is just a pretense for Shinn e wanting to take down the Freedom directly. If we have a scene where Shinn tells Kira that Stella's inside, is being used, and he wants to save her, and Kira kills her anyway, it's not going to make Kira look good, either by accident or on purpose. Because that means that Kira's gonna say "I gotta do what I gotta do!" and takes her down anyway, or tries to safe her and kills her by accident making him look incompetent
This entire event relies on the convenience of Neo telling Shinn that Stella was inside, and knowing that Shinn was inside of the Impulse. What if it was just some random pilot that gutted him instantly? Okay, if he's worried about Stella, then why did he put her in the Destroy anyway, the machine that everyone would be shooting at?
If there's one thing that gets me is that for all of our Athrun, Lacus, Kira, Shinn complaining, Neo always gets off scott free.
>>13496559
Destiny Plan is worse though. It was a new caste system that would enslave billions for god knows how many years and enforced at the point of a gun. All because he's butthurt over a break-up. It's just as evil as genocide, only less spectacular and immediate.
A lot of people got their character destroyed when moving from SEED to Destiny. But the worst one is likely the civilians.
The civilians were given the right to rule themselves. They were given right to pick their own leaders. And then they messed up so bad that they basically lost their right to self determination. This applies to both sides of the conflict. Civilians in Destiny are so retarded that they can't tie their own shoelaces. They are just mindless sheep and don't deserve to make their own decisions. That was the justification for why Lacus was forced to take over control permanently. Because she can't trust these mouth-breathers anymore.
They picked Durandal, who until he decided to go full WMD to enforce his Destiny plan in the last 5 episodes or so was doing pretty well at leading the Plants, and actually managed to stop the war from escalating after the alliance opened it up by shooting a million nukes at them 5 seconds after declaring war and did it without too stringent RoEs so ZAFT could still fight effectively, and one of the Logos puppets offered up to the Alliance, not that anything they choose there would have made a difference. The only civilians who made retarded choices for who to lead them were Orb, where the council was filled with faggots who thought joining up with genocidal maniacs who were losing a war on all fronts to the point that their largest landmass had an open campaign of rebellion against them, and that had burned Orb less than a year ago, was the best course of action.
>>13496923
>Okay, if he's worried about Stella, then why did he put her in the Destroy anyway, the machine that everyone would be shooting at?
Destroy was supposed to be invincible, and nobody was expecting Freedom to try to save Zaft. He probably figured she'd be safest there killing everyone.
Also he really didn't have a choice. It was Djbril's orders. Everyone in PP works for him, not Neo, Neo's just a pawn. If he disobeys him Djbril either tells the techs not to give Stella the stuff she needs to live and she dies, or he tells them to kill Neo and rebrainwash Stella so the next guy in charge is her father figure instead, and then he puts her in Destroy.
This dumb shit show should have featured more of Neo and his custom windam.
>>13496889
>and he didn't spare Yzark whilst he was in the middle of killing civilians.
Yes, he did. In the same way he and Athrun spared the fucking druggies when they had plenty of opportunities to stop them during Orb.
>>13498588
Thanks doc
>>13498797
Well no. He just choose not to kill Yzak a long while after he'd killed civilians when he wasn't in the process of killing civilians just for the sake of revenge for the earlier incident.
Still noble, but a different situation.
>>13490138
Because in a sea of shitposting, it's nice to find something everyone can shitpost together.
>>13492998
>>13493002
This....is actually pretty clever. Grats.
>>13499574
How?
>>13496932
I'm not one of those people arguing that the Destiny Plan was a good thing.
I'm just making fun of how it appeared with little to no build up, and how the character's come across it because the script says so.
>>13499608
>The how isn't important, though. Fukuda would back me up on that.
>Lacus is a bad man. Just trust me on this. :^)
Ironic sarcasm appeals to me.
>>13499626
Durandal was quite obviously shifty from literally the first episode though, even discounting the fact that he's voiced by Char. The introduction of his exact motivation and plan might have been crap, but it was pretty obviously coming all along. If you want proof, then you can look up internet archives of chat following the episodes and people were calling him a villain due to his mannerisms from day one.
>>13499668
That he was obviously meant to appear shifty was never in question. What was was that they fucked up and ended up with him seeming perfectly reasonable for most of the show, while the supposed heroes were going bonkers.
>>13499698
I wouldn't say he was perfectly reasonable for most of the show. Less insane than some of the competition sure, but he was still ordering hits on people so that he could put a fake version of them out that would drum up support for war. He was manipulating events from the background and from the Lacus hit onwards that was pretty obvious even if only occasionally actually shown. The fact he appeared reasonable in conversation with people was at that point an obvious facade regardless of how convincing because you knew what he was doing. A seemingly benign manipulator trying to start a war is still a manipulator trying to start a war at the end of the day.
>>13499730
The fake version was there to drum down support for immediate genocide as retribution for the attempted nuking of the plants and later to drum up support for his actually perfectly justified anti-logos war,
>>13499730
>he was still ordering hits on people so that he could put a fake version of them out that would drum up support for war.
See, the problem with this is that we only know it because the heroes tell us, and they must be right.
For an example of what I mean, early on he gives an actually pretty sensible explanation for Meer, namely that if a pretty pink pop princess will stop his people calling for genocide then that's what he'll use. Now, this is fucking stupid, a pop idol should not be able to do that (and Durandal acknowledges that it makes him look a little foolish), but in SEED it demonstrably does, so that's what he does. You see? It should be obvious, but the writing is fumbled enough that a less malign interpretation is immediately apparent.
Also,
>trying to start a war
He was most definitely not trying to start a war. He was preparing extensively in anticipation of one, but then so was the EA, and it was clear to all that a war was inevitable. He hardly needed to start a war if he wanted one, that war was always going to start itself. He just planned to steer it to expose and eliminate Logos (and BC by extension), to secure the safety of the Plants and set him in position for his stupid evil plan.
>>13499668
Him being turning out to be a villian is fine, I'm just saying it was poorly handled.
They should have probably thrown in more shifty nonsense other than Meer, but putting that aside, they kick off the whole Destiny Plan plot by having Lacus find a copy of his plans in a burned down laboratory, and she carries it around with her since they KNOW he's going to do it.
There aren't any hints of if being dropped here and there or any plans of it's preparation or nothing. I mean, what if the war never started, was he just not going to do it? Was he ever going to try to introduce it? What if the EA wasn't building a bendy beam to aim at people, would he have not done it then? Or does he need to have a big weapon to point at people for it to work? If that's the case, doesn't that mean there's something wrong if people have to be forced into it?
My point is that we don't have any build up to the Destiny Plan at all, and at a point where several million people are wiped out in an instant, we have to have the new old main characters sit down and remind the viewer of who the true badguy is.
It's a literal example of "hey, is that the script?"
>>13499698
>That he was obviously meant to appear shifty was never in question. What was was that they fucked up and ended up with him seeming perfectly reasonable for most of the show, while the supposed heroes were going bonkers.
I think Kira and Lacus's actions weren't going over that well with some of the viewers (if SRW Z is any indication) so Fukuda needed something big enough, something dumb enough that the viewers would side with TSA.
>>13500000
Durandal BTFO
> EA rejects the Destiny Plan and sends an army, get's nuked.
> ORB rejects the Destiny Plan and sends an army, threatened with a WMD.
> Kingdom of Scandinavia rejects the Destiny Plan and doesn't send an army, nothing happens.
> In the novelization, the Destiny Plan is optional.
See the pattern here?
Why does Fukuda have such a boner for royalty.
ORB is a group of principalities with all the major decision making powers in the hands of the royal families (mainly the Athha's). This is Fukuda's idealized Japan, a nation that is a constitutional monarchy with the major decision-making powers given to representatives of the people. In ORB, the Prime Minister is evil and led to joining with the EA.
Lacus is now in charge of the Plants. One alias she is referred to by is the Pink Princess.
ORB is on friendly terms with the Kingdom of Scandinavia. Said nation took in ORB refugees during the last war, helped it rebuild and rejects the Destiny plan.
>>13500000
>I mean, what if the war never started, was he just not going to do it?
I think at some point either he would either started one himself, or if a long enough period of time had passed without war, he might have decided to call it off until one did.
>What if the EA wasn't building a bendy beam to aim at people, would he have not done it then?
He built Neo Genesis himself. It's not quite as controlable as Requiem, but it would have done the job.
>Or does he need to have a big weapon to point at people for it to work?
I assume he does, because after his two WMDs are taken out, Durandal basically gives up, doesn't try to evacuate his station with everyone else, and simply waits for Kira to come to him to try to sell him on the plan. He still had much of his fleet left, Destiny and Legend and Minerva could be repaired. If he had any faith people would take the plan without having to threaten to Requiem them he could have just pulled out, gone home, told Orb he didn't want to fight them anymore and they could stay out of the plan if they wanted, and then waited for everyone else to accept the plan and make Orb look like idiots. He doesn't.
Incidentally that encounter with Kira is the best time to proclaim his benevolence. If he wanted to say "Look I'm not planning anything, I didn't try to kill you before you started harassing me and I have no evil intentions and just want peace, what do you have against me?!" that was the time to do it. Instead he basically says "Look I know you're mad at me but just hear the plan out." which doesn't really sound like he's very innocent.
>>13491198
That doesn't say body replacement you fucking idiot. 変わり身 is a sumo term for light footedness and agility. Stop making ange sound like fucking naruto, jutsu just means technique or ability. Fukuda's description is perfectly consistent with tusk's abilities throughout the show. He's very agile and has useful equipment to fight embryo with.
>>13500000
That doesn't make any sense. Why would gil gil be forthright about the destiny plan? Oh hey guys this is exactly what I want to do and you'll love it but I know some people will resist me so lets build our army and prepare to kill those who disagree with us because the plan doesn't really work if people dissent. Yeah, that's totally how you can win people to your side and consolidate power after everyone was still bitter about zala. Subtlety isn't poor writing, you're just trying as hard as possible to hate destiny.
>>13499969
> He was most definitely not trying to start a war
>>13500000
> I mean, what if the war never started.
The war was always going to start, because he was always going to make sure it did. He was just trying to do it while making himself and ZAFT look like the victim by manipulating events so that he caused another nation to fire the first shots. It's more than just a little coincidental that when the Phantom Pain members arrive in episode one they are escorted on to the base by ZAFT personnel, have the keys to get in to the hanger, have the help of yet more ZAFT military personnel during the attack and the hanger doesn't hold the Impulse - which is already on board the Minerva and ready for action. Shinn is also back on the Mineva at this point, just in time to help. The episode also points out that he has has been taking in technical personnel and using their expertise to improve ZAFT technology and ends with him quoting how there's always conflict as Shinn asks hypothetically if the Phantom Pain guys want to start another war.
It's really, really obvious that he set up the Gundams to be stolen so that the EA would be seen as the aggressor and that he was just doing his sad but necessary job of defending them and having the motive to improve technology and push out his fake Lacus to gain influence over a nervous nation.
> Or does he need to have a big weapon to point at people for it to work? If that's the case, doesn't that mean there's something wrong if people have to be forced into it?
Well duh, it's a caste system, you have to force people in to it almost by definition. No-one wants to be the guy whose family are basically guaranteed by birth to be doing the shit jobs for eternity.
>>13501247
> My point is that we don't have any build up to the Destiny Plan at all
It absolutely is very badly done, which I said in my previous post, but there were some pretty obvious signs all along that he was supposed to be the main villain throughout the show and if you look around there are indications of why. There are probably some things that never got included due to Murosawa's shitty scheduling and writing though, so that the picture is incomplete.
>>13501250
Destiny is like a meal that was using top quality ingredients and excellent recipe, but was simply badly put together, burnt, and had industrial waste mixed into it near the end. You can see what they tried to do, you can see what it could have been, but the result was still a disaster.
>>13502563
>Industrial waste mixed inot it near the end
Couldn't we just say the chef was EA-tier incompetent and the infighting between the kitchen staff didn't help??
>>13500000
Jeez Louise
While watching destiny, I played a game.
Whenever Kira says the word "Fighting", I replaced it with the word "Dying".
>>13502636
I don't want anyone to die, and I don't want to die, but I have no choice but to keep dying?
