how can one be an atheist, materialist who accepts that human life is just a very complex human algorithm and that everything that humans do and every decision they make is just a combination of their biology and prior conditioning making life no more meaningful or sacred than a boulder falling down a hill or rain falling from the sky and still be happy and act like there life matters.
>>8256423
life is meaningful to the living, because life creates meaning
>>8256435
i don't understand, life is worth living because you live life
>>8256423
It's entirely unacceptable. That's why most people invent fictions about reality for their own psychological survival. However there is also no reason to think that the pointlessness of everything is sad or on the other hand, freeing. It means nothing in the strictest sense of the word. That's why a good amount of people with bleak outlooks seek to organize or structure it in some way, because that is really the only thing you can do.
Why do you need life to be meaningful or sacred in order to be happy? For that matter, why do you need to be happy?
It is sufficient simply to be.
>>8256474
how can one expect me to live every day knowing none of it means anything
>>8256466
so life means nothing and i just have to accept it or not accept it
>>8256495
Do you need your entertainment to be meaningful?
Life is either the pursuit of survival or entertainment, and if you've arrived at the stage where you're asking the questions you are, I assume that you're not hard-pressed for survival. I suggest stranding yourself in the middle of the Canadian wilderness or on an unoccupied island if you want to go back to a simpler and more "fulfilling" survival-oriented state.
>>8256500
Yep. Your choices are acceptance or willful ignorance.
>>8256508
why should one want to survive rather than die
>>8256512
what about suicide
You should look into absurdism, OP. Absurdism is the belief that a search for meaning is inherently in conflict with the actual lack of meaning, but that one should both accept this and simultaneously rebel against it by embracing what life has to offer. So instead of desperately trying to search for meaning, just live and let live.
>>8256535
>another "life has no meaning just be yourself bro" poster
>>8256526
Suicide is tricky mostly because it has no relation to the purpose of subjective experience even though they are often lumped together. Just because something doesnt have a purpose doesnt mean it needs to be ended. Suicide adds no commentary on the strictest measure of the value of reality.
>>8256551
What's wrong with that?
>>8256524
to see how far the pain can go
Who cares lol
>>8256555
yeah but if life has no purpose i don't really want to keep living
>>8256584
Kill yourself then
Or carry on shitposting about how meaningless it all is
Not that your choice matters
>>8256584
https://youtu.be/KI25easQs2k
>>8256584
I'm sure you have a purpose anon. Probably something like making everyone else feel better about themselves.
>>8256584
Ok but that's poor logic. Also you're a human so you can fortunately define meaning where it doesnt necessarily exist, also meaning that it isnt necessarily untrue or synthetic.
>>8256605
if all human life has no purpose neither does mine feeling good means nothing and is no more justified than feeling bad. i really just want it to stop so that i can just stop being awake and aware of all this. i just want to turn it off. when i accepted the meaningless everything around me just became annoying, nothing was precious, valuable or even worth doing
>>8256423
Life doesn't need to matter in and of itself, or to the world in any kind of permanent way in order to be enjoyable.
Your experience of being is still "You" and things can still be interesting, satisfying, enjoyable and matter to you, whether or not they're important to the grand scheme of everything forever is entirely outside of that
>>8256613
i don't know what you mean. if i create meaning and it is just a figment of my imagination how is it not synthetic or untrue
>>8256584
You might not actually have a choice in the matter.
Hyper-advanced beings in the universe's future (or from outside it) are probably going to employ spacetime shenanigans in order to preserve all the sentient minds in history despite bodily death. Depending on the being(s) managing this digital continuation of life, your requests to die for real may not be granted, and if they are, there's nothing preventing a different entity from scooping up the minds that the first ones allow to "die".
>>8256584
You want to end it only because you wish to.
You can change your wishes.
Because those statements are unfortunately more true than the supernatural aspects of religion. Why believe in something we know isn't possible? Religions are really nice. Created with the best intentions. At the time, it was probably as correct as anything could be. "if everyone does these things, we'll have some semi-functional society and we wont have to waste time asking what the point of it all is. oh yeah, make it from the creator of the universe who sees everything you do to make sure people follow the rules."
And then we started actually believing it. It's a bad habit, like smoking, that serves a function, but it can be done without. Relaxation/spiritual contentment can be had without nicotine or supernatural doctrine. We will never be able to escape the need for group think and shared ideology though.
(We absolutely should create secular "church." more like Carl Sagan, Mr. Rogers, and Salsa Music than Dick Dorkins or Sam Harisson though.)
>>8256628
Yea thats exactly how life works by any definition you stupid fuck, whether you like it or not. What do you fucking do all day? Stare at the wall?
>>8256642
>we no there is no meaning
>let's pretend to have meaning thou
so the answer to being intelligent and continuing to live is cognitive dissonance
>>8256632
why the fuck would they do that, what possible reason would they have for that
>>8256423
> How can one be a total retard and still thinks life is worth living
Idk, stop being a retard?
>>8256423
Because of quantum mechanics. Things aren't predetermined, they're random.
Life has RNG
Also became the illusion of free will is just as good as the real thing itself.
>>8256672
To entertain themselves.
It's what I'm going to do if I don't die first.
>>8256678
i would say that is cruel and wrong but suffering doesn't really matter, it is just one thing among many others
>>8256675
>don't worry life isn't a series of predetermined physical reactions
>it is just a swirling vortex of chaos
thanks m8
>>8256686
All actions are basically equal when you're dealing with eternity. Things just are.
>>8256693
>he didn't read the second part
>>8256695
yeah, that is concept i opened up my post with and then i asked how i could possibly enjoy continuing to be
>>8256705
being able to choose or not choose in a void means nothing it is just the choice between nothing and nothing
>>8256711
So, it's better if you pretend that life isn't worthless so you can atleast be happy instead of in constant depression.
>>8256721
>cognitive dissonance is the key to happiness
>>8256669
What fucking "meaning," do you want? Some deity's chess game? Does the absurd Xtian idea of Judgement Day and singing around the giant disco throne of God seem like it has a point? What do you even mean by the word "meaning"? Your life can make a lot of people happier or sadder, change everyone you meet in some way, you might have kids, you might kill a foreign leader or start a forest fire... ultimately of course nothing means anything, but that's why we're programmed to enjoy sunsets and beautiful women and beer, so we can enjoy our lives before we become useful compost. Life is the only form of existence we can count on, and entertaining as hell. Enjoy it aesthetically, read and learn for fun, and then die and be happy fertilizer. You don't need a fucking cosmic destiny.
>>8256725
You know what they say, ignorance is bliss.
>>8256708
You choose to
>>8256725
Hence the higher rates of depression among those with above-average intelligence.
>>8256730
the cognitive dissonance thing comes up a lot
>>8256727
so there is no objective reason to do anything at all, but rather i should just follow my instinct
>>8256734
It's not really cognitive dissonance, there.
Meaninglessness isn't a thing to be depressed or frustrated about- rather, you choose your own opinion of it.
>>8256423
>combination of their biology and prior conditioning
Yes but that doesn't mean shit's predetermined. Even animals can make decisions.
>>8256739
Essentially
>>8256739
Not at all: the immediate objective rational reasons to do things remain. Your existential crisis is unconnected to them. The reasons are just sensible, societal, and specific to time and place. Stop looking for universals that don't exist. Actions should be generally pragmatic and helpful, to avoid unnecessary trouble.
>>8256746
so there is no reason to live or die and i just have to be happy with that or not be happy with that
>>8256755
>Should be
in a world without free choice and no real consequence or meaning for actions there can't be a should but rather a desire
>>8256761
Correct
Because almost nobody truly believes this. Just as there's a huge difference between knowing that death is inevitable and fully realizing your own mortality; so there is a huge difference between stating a philosophical position and living it as truth.
TLDR they spook themselves and wont admit it
Because everything is the same as has always been, you're just less spooked.
>>8256767
Your problem is too much bloody ontology. "Should be" is part of a sentence implying "if you want to make your life more pleasant and not piss off the world around you needlessly." It isn't some ultimate meaning, because (as we already covered) they don't exist. We all have working contingent morals and values based on our upbringing and the laws/expectations of society. Knowing these are contingent limited constructs--working compromises--doesn't rob them of utility or make them meaningless. Most people try to feed their desires and make decisions that sustain a crude balance and harmony between their own wants and the society's demands they're subject to. It's great fun. Every now and then, I get to give a dancer friend a massage and take a few photos.
>>8256802
but they literally are meaningless, even if a society likes them or they feel good doesn't mean they have meaning it just means that you like them and so do other people
>muh meaning
Start with the Buddhists.
Because they delude themselves into accepting the presumption that they can define their own meaning.
These people end up thirsty for God, and to paraphrase Tommy, try to cover that thirst with carnality and reasonworship.
>>8256642
>rejecting God but still trying to be '''''spiritual'''''
Why don't you just give up your ego and stop deluding yourself into a simplistic, reductionist and ultimately, solipsist realm?
>>8256755
do this thing cuz i sed so btw theres no meaning praise raisins
Now stop avatarfagging.
>>8256829
>can't be spiritual if you reject God
lel
>>8256807
That's all that meaning is. That's the limit of the damn word's practical verifiable meaning. If you want to be religious, go be religious, but there is no "meaning" beyond this life, aside from elaborate fantasies. Just because you've decided that "meaning" must include cosmic significance on a level you can't even define doesn't make it anything but delusion.
>>8256868
>being this mad about the term meaning while also rejecting meaning
why are you angry about this and when did i say anything about religon
>>8256868
>but there is no "meaning" beyond this life, aside from elaborate fantasies
Cite your sources
>>8256862
You can't be because you reject spirit in every form.
>>8256868
>but there is no "meaning" beyond this life
becuz i sed so
>>8256874
Trash like him are always angry because the cognitive dissonance and ignorance of love they suffer forces them into a mindset where they praise reason but reject meaning, and attempt to be spiritual whilst rejection spirit.
>>8256874
What makes you think I'm angry? You have repeatedly used the words "meaningful" and "sacred" and rejected all applications of meaning that are limited to human existence. You, anon, seemingly desperately want religion, or some version of it that will provide this imaginary vast significance to your existence. I'm just pointing out that such "meaning" doesn't exist, and that's fine. If it's not fine for you, you're a seeker looking into the realms of the sacred. Many people are. I am happy to be as meaningless and sacred as a boulder or rain.
>>8256884
Not him, but if what people refer to as "spirit" isn't literal, wouldn't it just become a metaphor for an aspect of the human condition most commonly associated with the word?
>>8256896
>human condition
And you people say you reject metaphysical meaning.
>>8256877
My source is all verifiable and perceivable reality. Prove me wrong.
OP started this pity party citing an atheist materialist viewpoint. That's what I'm working with. If you believe in other stuff, the onus is on you. It doesn't concern me.
>>8256898
>cuz i sed so
What? I was merely pointing out to a certain religion that is highly spiritual while rejecting God. Sure it doesn't have Spirit as in Holy Spirit, but literally no one uses the word spiritual while thinking of it.
>>8256904
What? I mean it in a casual way, referring vaguely to similarities shared by most humans.
>>8256905
>verifiable and perceivable
why is this correct?
proof is needed cuz i sed so btw there is no meaning
Now stop avatarfagging. Worthless sophist.
>>8256904
ok fine convince me there is a spirit or a god, or a cosmic whatever
>>8256915
>convince me
You fail to even comprehend religion, is this why you chose an intellectually-bankrupt copout?
>>8256919
what cop-what did i do, i just said maybe i should view the world as a materialist and an atheist. why shouldn't i view the world in any other way
>>8256923
yeah /b/ro ill convince you of something you have already presumed to not exist and goes against your ideology, that will work.
>>8256905
>My source is all verifiable and perceivable reality. Prove me wrong.
It's all a matter of defining meaning in relation to life though.
Also verifiable reality would be laws of physics and other scientific knowledge, which are limited, while the average person's perception is extremely unreliable for some matters. These don't guarantee objective knowledge in this case.
>>8256928
i don't have am ideology i am sad because i am starting to think that there is no spirit, god or reason to live. i would really like to hear your angle i promise i won't make fun of you
>>8256954
>i don't have an ideology
delusion
>>8256962
really i don't know what to believe about this world
>>8256976
i want to know what you think
>>8256979
About the same
>>8256971
ideology is a representational structure by which you imagine your place in the world. everyone has it.
>>8256934
Very true, but that way lies madness. Without some measure of faith in our senses we would be afraid to take a step. We all have ideologies, ethics, morality, values: without them you couldn't be integrated enough to be having this discussion here. But yes, I do personally define meaning in relation to life because nothing else has convinced me to do otherwise. I don't care what other folks find higher meaning in, but it does seem a shame when I see them look at the entire range of our planet, history, human achievement, nature, science, and say, "Okay, but is that it? That's not enough." Honestly, I'm glad I'm not in that boat.
But, it's contingent, not absolute.Your life experiences aren't "nothing." They happen. Memory and action don't have to be eternal to matter, and experience is always influential to you and everyone else. If you can't be reconciled to a limited influence and meaning in life, I honestly think you'll have to explore some forms of spirituality at the very least, if not an actual religion.
>>8256921
>just some sort of verifiable, objective reason to keep living
This doesn't apply. The whole "mystery of life" thing is there because we cannot have an impersonal verification of different reasons that are proposed for living, otherwise everybody would agree on the same thing and there'd be less problems.
I wasn't joking when I posted >>8256808.
>>8257007
>meaning doesn't exist
>makes up meaning in irrelevant materialist trash whilst continuing to post an ugly old hag
>>8257007
>faith in senses is good
>faith in God is bad
This is why no one takes you children seriously.
>>8257007
>But yes, I do personally define meaning in relation to life
Of course. I meant the way you do that.
>the entire range of our planet, history, human achievement, nature, science, and say, "Okay, but is that it? That's not enough." Honestly, I'm glad I'm not in that boat.
You're just a materialist hedonist though. Deprived of the external objects that make you happy your way of existence would change and you wouldn't say the same things you do now. Other people might feel the winds of impermanence and unsatisfactoriness already so all that stuff isn't, ultimately, that significant to them (doesn't mean that there is no significance at all). Of course there are also many who look at those things and do feel meaning; it's just that they also need a... meaningful explanation with them at the center or at least at an important role regarding how all that is possible, and why does it happen in the way it does. All major religions except one are based on that search. So it's more nuanced than just "they look at all these worldly things and don't think that's enough".
And of course, you also have people who feel those are insignificant while still essentially thinking in materialist terms only. That generally causes depression of some kind.
>I honestly think you'll have to explore some forms of spirituality at the very least, if not an actual religion.
This should be directed to someone else as this post probably makes clear where I come from.
>>8257063
Are you high?
>my utterly unsubstantiated concept of a deity should be given equal weight as the senses that detect everything we perceive from birth to death.
Go to bed, silly troll.
>>8257244
it shouldnt cuz i sed so im going to presuppose the truth in senses and use this fallacy to make you look stupid because im a worthless sophist
Idk who cares dude
You cannot expect to understand everything about life if you are a part of it.
In other words, you are just a single human being.
You are expecting ants to understand where the earthquakes come from when a human walks above.
Life is something that can't be comprehended beyond things we choose to confine it to: secularism, religion, or nihilism, and whatever -ism.
How can people possibly expect to understand something so complex and overreaching?
EVEN IF YOU DO UNDERSTAND: I doubt it would be of very much relevance to YOU, a single human being.
So, instead of concerning yourself with meaning of life - which is a good waste of time - focus on your current problems, fix them, and search deep down what meaning you would want to create.
I'm not saying you can create the MEANING OF LIFE. NO! that's fucking absurd.
Create meaning on your own terms, on smaller things that are a part of life.
>>8256423
Without life, there would be only silence - the universe would just be cold rocks moving in a circle, forever. THAT would be truly meaningless. But by living, being sentient, we can feel or want or be *something*, and that creates a meaning. Even pain is still *something* more than void.
>>8256446
No, you've got it.
>>8256446
what if you're only living life because you're too dumb to realize it's not worth it.
>>8256423
From the classical hindu perspective, life has three goals: dharma (righteous action), artha (honest wealth) and kama (righteous enjoyment of pleasure). The "moksha" bit was a later addition, probably as a reaction to the rise of Buddhism.
Before our universe was born, the only thing that existed was the basic unity, a being in a state that can only be described by negations: It was not bound to time or space or matter. It existed in a transcendental world that has nothing to with the laws of physics or anything else that we know from our world. All we can say about the basic unity, is that is has been and is no longer, it vanished with the birth of our universe, which is the only miracle that ever happened. Everything that happened after that miracle, the very second the universe was born, is our world where our laws of physics make sense. After defining the basic unity as a being that is absolutely different from us and is furthermore the cause of the birth of our entire universe, we can now give that being the name it deserves: God. But we can not try to describe this God any further, because that would mean leaving our reality, projecting logics that only make sense in our world, into another world. The only thing we know is that the basic unity must have been killing itself, because it was the only thing existing before the universe and therefore it couldn't have been killed by anything else, because there wasn't anything that could have killed it. Therefore the universe, as we know it, was born through the suicide of God. God decided that he can't bear his existence anymore and that he wishes to turn into Nothingness. But he was not able to reach that goal without thereby creating our world, because the path from his over-being to Nothingness required a transition, which is being as we know it, our universe. This entire world is therefore nothing more than God's "body", that is in all its components rotting into nothingness now.
The course of the universe is therefore defined as a movement from the over-being (God) through the being (our universe) into nothingness. The world itself is the decay in the plurality, that means in egoistic individuals that are fighting each other. This path is predestined and it couldn't have been any other, any shorter or any longer than exactly how it is. The universal law of the weakening of the power (entropy) causes the world to decay in a large amount of unorganic and organic individuals that are all weakening the power of other beings and their environment and the same time getting weakened themself by the overall course of the universe. The purpose of every natural force, every form of matter and every form of life is exclusively to weaken the power sum of the universe by living the path through the state of being into nothingness. Every part of nature is desiring for absolute death, because that is the ultimate goal of every form of matter and life - to turn into nothing.
>>8256423
By not being vain enough to require being a special snowflake as a condition for happiness.
>>8257423
>reaction to the rise of Buddhism
wut?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puru%E1%B9%A3%C4%81rtha
life is nothing more than a burrito peppered in onion
>>8256423
Because one of the eventualities of that algorithm is happiness, which is a physical process as much as any other. If you do things which result in happiness, your brain doesn't stop producing dopamine because you've reached some materialist epiphany.
>>8257617
Don't forget norepinephrine and serotonin and whatever else, who doesn't enjoy internally generated drugs.
>>8257434
It's not about vanity. It's about purpose. Without some sense of objective, you're living just to live. Happiness is just a slight chemical abberation, no better than hatred or an impulse to murder. Without some reason for your morality it falls apart with any sense of scrutiny besides actual vanity.
>>8257633
>*Blank* is just chemistry man
fuck off
>>8256808
this
>>8257631
assuming the mind–body division is arbitrary.
>>8257432
the is the single most depressing thing i have ever read in my entire life
>>8257434
why you gotta be so fucking cold
>>8257633
Requiring purpose is vanity.
