Is there any author or philosopher/thinker who has written with the idea or notion of willfully and deliberately rejecting the human condition due to its repulsiveness.
Here I shall define what I mean by "the human condition" and "repulsiveness":
By the human condition I primarily (but not exclusively) mean the lack of any meaning or purpose and yet being stuck in a perpetual state of activity and will driven partly be inescapable primitive wants and needs and partly by whatever narrow worldview we adopt over our lives. How disgusting and utterly loathsome it is to someone who feels compelled to seek out companionship while knowing that he might not get it. That we debase ourselves to ensure that our wants/needs/spooks go satisfied.
Did anyone ever write about rebelling against this slavery? The slavery of the human condition which restricts us to our despicable selves? I know there are a lot out there who think of themselves as splendid beautiful beings but they haven't seen their natural state: one that exists without distractions that bring happiness or pride or confidence which are things that blind us and take away our self awareness and lucidity.
I feel that in the absence of any clear purpose or meaning to anything, the only thing that one can do is feel repulsed at one's state and then choose to rebel against it by rejecting the human condition. Only then can one rise above the human condition. But what would such a rejection look like? I feel that the only answer would be suicide.
Please tell me if there's anyone else who had any similar ideas.
This is Absurdism.
https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Absurdism
>>8245005
Nowhere in absurdism does it talk about one's repulsion to the human condition and the rejection of it through suicide.
Camus attempts to argue against suicide but fails spectacularly. He poses the correct question : "does absurdism dictate suicide?" but never really commits to giving an answer to it because he believes that life can be made worth living and he believes in other spooks like freedom and passion. A more realistic/pragmatic person would not see "freedom" but would see slavery to the human condition and the ugliness of it. The repulsion to that ugliness and the need to break free from it after becoming aware of it would drive one to suicide as a consequence. Free from a horrible, abject existence.
The ugliness of slavery to the human form/condition becomes apparent only to those who are self aware and only those who aren't distracted with any happiness can see things for what they really are. See things in their natural state.
Consider a man without much. He begins to need and want food, water, companionship, love, affection, tools, knowledge, entertainment, sleep. All he does is want and need. He becomes aware of these needs and becomes aware of his state and the things he is willing to do to obtain or satisfy these needs. He will realize that he is nothing more than just these needs and wants and that his entire volition is driven by them and in the absence of any greater purpose, he can do nothing but cave in to these needs.
OR in the ultimate act of rebellion against this state, he could commit suicide.
>>8244992
You sound like someone who cannot understand something unless it is made painfully clear, or you're just a pseud.
OP you bring some good points, and your conclusion to escape the human condition; "suicide" is everybody's initial go-to, because it's the literal "opt-out" idea which only grows in emphasis with every thought, seeing as it's an action that you probably haven't experienced.That being said, before I attempt to illustrate a path you should follow in order to penetrate the vortex of baser thought, out of which few manage to escape, I would like to personally congratulate you on the fact that you've approached the limits of academically-rooted critical thinking, to the extent of individuation.
A post above me suggests that your thoughts point to absurdism, but absurdism is just another rift off of existentialism and blahblahblah... if you wish to speculate on an amateur-level, go read a platonic dialogue.
~~~
Misha's (me) short guide to paradiso.
Personally, in this point in my life, I silently preach mysticism bordering theism.
I have not read a book in the direction because I suppose that life is the book in that direction.
How does it go?
~ Believe in God
~ Stand up for your beliefs in a public setting
~ Be homeless for a week
~ Let go
~ Love to give
~ Avoid drugs, especially hallucinogens
~ Immerse yourself in the history of Art
~ Find the Artistic niche that your mind can relax in
~ Protect your mother
~ Love money more than women, always
~ Recognize your baseness in desiring
~ Practice kindness
..
~ Those crazy tangents which you feel in Art, follow them
~ Learn to dance with Life, rather than against it
~ Accept
~ Look back and smile
It is really that simple, no book will instruct you betterwise, you are smarter than the masses, no be smarter than yourself. I believe in you.
>>8244992
Isn't escaping the human condition the whole point of buddhism ?
>>8245105
You're spooked, m8
AYYYO DUDE KILL YOURSELF LMAO
Most forms of mysticism are very heavy on non-attachment, and very strongly opposed to material hedonism of any kind. I don't know if that full fills your notion of rejecting the human condition, but I suppose in ways it's similar.
The problem with that is: if you simply turn away from all sensual pleasure you're left with a life that sucks even more dick. That's why pretty much every form of mysticism rest on the backbone of ecstatic practices. Jhana, Dhyana, Samadhi, equivalent Western concepts found in the works of Christian mystics, etc.
People are very unaware of this aspect of life, but the potentiality for an experience better than sex and drugs is right under their noses. If you're really that despondent towards life I suggest you look into these practices. These days it's very easy to find (good) material on Jhana (a Buddhist meditative practice), and Yogic practices.
>>8245105
Did you just post your name? What a total fucking looser you are. Leave here.
Escaping the human condition is a variation (albeit unusual) of the human condition. Attaining death is impossible for all existence depends on life, meaning death is non-existent. If you say "I wish to not-exist" you are saying there should be a subject (existence) which partakes in non-existence. This is the paradox of life.
It can't be escaped.
>>8245146
Swearing on an image board, how cliche
t. Starting not starting with the Greeks
>>8244992
Do not wallow in the baseness of the physical world, anon. Love and beauty are available to you, if you merely seek them out. Open your eyes.
>>8245105
Without a doubt THE gayest shit I've ever read. Saged, hidden, and reported. FU
This is why existentialism is not philosophy m8s. Don't inherit your worldview from som 19th century edgelord.
>>8244992
Sounds like existentialism to me tbqh fampai...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp_Mainländer
>>8245105
The full guide to garbage existence
>>8245105
I knew a bitch named Misha, she was fucking gross like this post senpai
>>8245282
>girls named Misha
As a slavshit this pisses me off. Misha = Michael
It's like a slav naming his daughter Ricky or something.
>>8245095
>you sound like someone who cannot understand something unless it is made painfully clear
why do you say that? I ask because I suspect that too.
>>8245105
Some of the more specific and arbitrary things you've listed are unnecessary restrictions, but kindness and acceptance are good things to strive towards.
>>8245105
>I have not read a book in the direction because I suppose that life is the book in that direction.
>~ Love money more than women, always
>~ Recognize your baseness in desiring
you cant make this shit up
OP here.
>>8245105
What the fuck are you on about. You missed the entire point of my post. I do not need your guide to paradise. I do not want a self help book. I feel repulsed by our compulsion to these pursuits (such as that of an ideal existence called paradiso). That we ought to do this and that to ensure that we don't return to our natural state of anguish and dissatisfaction.
I detest the chase of happiness and the inescapable nature of it. I detest the human condition because it compels us to act in set ways to achieve set goals or else risk remaining dissatisfied and in pain.
The consequences of such a detestation are what I intend to explore (and believe that suicide could be one of them).
Read my goddamn post again.
>>8245179
Read the above passage. I am not jaded with the lack of love and beauty. But jaded at the fact that we're slaves to them and lack any freedom to grow above them for a higher purpose which does not exist.
Our search for love is no different than a rat's search for discarded cheese in a sewer. utterly repugnant.
>>8245210
Thank you. You seem to be the only person who has provided something that might be useful or at least understands the sentiment I intended to capture.
>>8245158
>If you say "I wish to not-exist" you are saying there should be a subject (existence) which partakes in non-existence
I claim that choosing nonexistence might be the only act of rebellion that an individual can commit in response to his repulsion to the human condition and rejection of it.
This state of non existence can be achieved if the subject (which is the individual's consciousness) partakes in non existence. This can be achieved.
>>8245366
Searching for love is misguided, as are you. Love and beauty are to be given and appreciated, not scrounged for desperately. They are the soul of contentment, they put an end to searching. If these things are not purpose enough for you, you have never felt them. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by saying all this despite the fact that you're most likely putting on airs to appear cynical and experienced. Either way, I wish you happiness anon, as little as you may wish it for yourself. I hope one day you'll look back on this and laugh.
>>8244992
I'd be surprised if you hadn't heard anything about Schopenhauer, because your post is very highly reminiscent of his pessimism.
>>8245105
Your capitalization of art says more about your sentiment towards it than all your buzzworded autism combined, why can't you just state your idea of the essence of art or something and explain its significance from there if that's what you're going for?
Looking at this thread, it sounds like you're just looking for someone famous to give you the greenlight to kill yourself. Why not just go for it already?
>>8244992
>I feel that in the absence of any clear purpose or meaning to anything, the only thing that one can do is feel repulsed at one's state and then choose to rebel against it by rejecting the human condition.
Why? How is this not the most repulsive of all choices? In fact it is literally the only repulsive choice, you are freely transcending toward a state of repulsion. Human existence is the freedom to constitution a situation, use that freedom in a way that transcends the easy allures of despair.
What you want you want is a meaning that transcends all meaning, this is not something which can be achieved or even conceived of, by definition. So why do you choose to transcend toward a limit? The limit is something you yourself have created in your overarching project of 'nihilism' or 'feeling powerless'.
You cannot reject the human condition, not even by suicide, but you do have the power to constitution in what way that condition is to be realised.
>>8245210
This was who I thought of immediately. What a guy.
You have to learn to love and give. To give and love:
In the words of John Green:
Love is that which puzzles us and moves us to new and greater depths; it impulses us towards living in the present and caring. Caring and giving, giving and caring.
Also remember what the beatles used to say "all you need is love".
Embrace the present moment, embrace who you are.
From man to man, let go of toxic ideas and you know what, just do it.
Be who you are.
We are all one.
Our passions send us signals that guide us.
Try starving yourself to death, lock yourself in a room with an apple next to you and see if you can manage to die of hunger. If you succeed, then you've really risen above the human condition. If you can't resist the urge to eat the apple then accept that you're just a fucking human being and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
>>8245530
Love may be meaningless in the form of a platitude, but to reduce it to that form shows that you haven't experienced it.
all conditions are an enslavement simply because of the law of identity.
You cannot conceive that which isn't itself. Everything must be unrestrainedly tied to itself, even if you attain a new condition you will be tied to describing/perceiving/feeling that new condition as necessarily equal to itself and therefore you will be enslaved to it.
All change is composed of is enslavement to new conditions, and some changes are rapid enough to make us believe we never pertain to any particular condition, yet this is nothing more than an illusion.
>>8245530
>In the words of John Green
>>8245531
or maybe it would only prove he really doesn't like apples
This thread really lived up to its potential.
>>8245105
>Not taking psychedelics for the aesthetic splendor and to further your human development.
Mate...
>>8245556
Some mcnuggets then.
>>8245064
but he argued that commiting suicide affirmed the absurdity, therefore it's no good to kill yourself
>>8245573
So have you.
>>8245412
Yeah but Schopenhauer gives us no way out. Even suicide is useless as the Will continues infinitely and will always produce conciousness. And as we are merely differentiated in phenomena the destruction of ourselves as individual phenomena does nothing to reduce the pain and meaningless and striving of conciousness present in humanity which we are all part of as the Will. We can literally never escape. Pretty horrible thought desu
>>8245616
Don't believe everything you read.
>>8244992
korzybski
>>8245616
Well to be honest schoopy's system is contradictory in the area of suicide. I think it was his way of being PC in his own era. Advocating for suicide seems incredibly uncompassionate and radical for the most part, specially if it's the best result of a system of philosophy you spent your entire life affirming.
Basically regressing to inferior leves of individuation (becoming lifeless matter) can't completely eliminate suffering because everything is constantly struggling against everything else. In this way he seems hilozoistic or animistic. But the fact remains that you greatly reduce the suffering the more primitive you are. For this same reason he said that humans are more miserable than animals, and smarter humans more than dumb humans.
When he said that you can't extinguish the will through suicide i feel as if that's an easy way out because it's just one strong instance of utilizing your will in exchange of regressing to a much less conscious and suffering-prone state of existence.
His explanations were cop outs.
>>8245117
>Stirner is now on ifunny
The meme is officially dead
>>8245616
You're missing a crucial part of his system; denial of the will can occur in those people who are so identified with, and so disgusted by, the whole of existence that their will neutralizes itself rather than continue willing what its confronted with. This is the only escape from the will-in-itself and from its appearance, the world - though we have absolutely no way of picturing the nothingness that such escape is "to."
>>8245661
>taboo 'gainst naming
Adorno's fanboi detected.
That ubi roi soft.
Jerry shall have his day.
>>8245690
1. I haven't read Adorno.
2. I haven't read Jarry, in case you were mistyping references to him.
3. What the fuck???
>>8245162
using the word "an", how cliche
What an idiot
>>8245725
Endgame
n
d
g
a
m
e
>>8245702
describing a system is tantamount to building one
>>8245702
describing the utopia is forbidden as to the processial bracings of materialist philosophy. Kabbalic shadow.
>>8244992
>Is there any author or philosopher/thinker who has written with the idea or notion of willfully and deliberately rejecting the human condition due to its repulsiveness
I have a question, too: is there any philosopher who didn't see human nature as flawed? I feel that every philosopher considered humans "repulsive" to some extend. Plato seemed to think that humans aren't inherently lacking. At least some of them.
Honestly living in a virtual video game reality while my consciousness is preserved for thousands of years doesnt sound so bad. Accepting this though, in my opinion, is more pessimistic than any crusty german could think up.
>>8245725
>That was before the atom bomb. We now have the technology to end human life forever.
Not according to Schopenhauer. If we nuke ourselves extinct, it will only be temporary; the will-in-itself will continue to objectify with the (Platonic-like) Idea of Humanity as its highest expression, making the re-evolution of our species inevitable.
The only way out is by renunciation.
>>8245876
He actually knew quite a lot about biology, and studied medicine at university before switching to philosophy. He died in 1860, so his understanding must of course be judged in its context - just as the future will hopefully be fair in judging contemporary biological ideas.
>>8245407
Fuck you
>>8245530
>in the words of John Green
>>8245912
Why do you say that, anon? What is the source of your anger?
>>8245650
>wew
>>8245600
That's stupid. Why do I care about affirming the absurdity? I am just uncomfortable and want to stop being uncomfortable. Its pretty simple
>>8245936
Why would you feel that you were owed comfort by life? or that a lack of comfort is worth dying for?
>>8244992
>But what would such a rejection look like?
Misery. It is the only respectable occupation in this life.
>>8245893
He lived in the same era as Darwin and Spencer. The very suggestion that human beings could develop again is fucking ludicrous to anyone who understands evolution. It's the same misconception as when people say they didn't descend from a monkey, or demand to know when the apes of today will become human beings. Laughable.
>>8244992
>lack of any purpose or meaning
Both purpose and meaning are out there, if you want to find them. If you'd rather post about "spooks" on an anime image board, that's your call too.
>>8245923
Your puerile life-apolegetics and cultist mentality
>>8245943
Is there some sort of mandate to exist that I'm not aware of?
>>8245997
No, i'm just saying that you seem to find a lack of comfort worth dying for, obviously it's your choice.
>>8245964
The reason Schopenhauer's system implies that humans would develop again is tied to his metaphysics; yes, to us his metaphysics can seem antiquated, and yes, it's probably quite different from the cosmic viewpoints that Darwin and Spencer took. But if you were to understand Schopenhauer's whole system, you'd see that he doesn't make this claim out of nowhere, or without careful consideration; it's anachronistic to judge the ridiculousness of his ideas by the standards of Darwinian evolution when he had almost no reason to agree with Darwin.
>>8246005
Given the logical incongruty of free will its difficult to reconcile with any value system apart from hedonism. The self is really just an experiential receptacle and if there is a clear trend towards an overall poor life experience, it must become preposterous to continue living beyond a certain threshold of mental turmoil and anguish.
>>8245990
Again, I'll say: if you've felt genuine love (NOT referring to romantic love btw if that wasn't obvious already), there is nothing puerile about it. I apologize for nothing, I'm merely offering you the happiness you say you don't want. As for being "cultist", I suppose you're right; it's wrong for me to assume that others are capable of experiencing what I do. I just hope that they are, for their sake. Anyway, I won't try to push anything on you, I'll just let the offer stand.
You guys are fucking stupid, rejecting the human shell for its brutish, slovenly nature is literally the crux of Christianity. OP it's time to turn to Jesus, oh wait you won't do that because you're an edgy teenage faggot
>>8246040
lol god damn, I mean Sufjan makes some good music and all, but he is such a gaylord
>>8246050
You should tell him that, I'm sure he'll be devastated.
>>8246036
>it must become preposterous to continue living beyond a certain threshold of mental turmoil and anguish.
That's an individual decision. And many people find something worth caring about more than pleasure or pain, rational or irrational, logical or illogic is besides the point, how would you be able to conclusively show that it's the logical choice under every set of assumptions?
>>8246058
why would I tell him that? He would probably just play E-minor chords on his banjo at me and start looking perpetually like he pood a little in his corduroy trousers
>>8246060
I mean we're trying to equate the slow and sure work of entropy and the total disintegration of your entire being to the interstital highs, the brain stewing in its own opium. There is no realistic comparison and the more you invest in life, the more you must inevitably lose.
>>8246083
>the more you invest in life, the more you must inevitably lose
There is nothing to be lost without life.
>There is no realistic comparison and the more you invest in life, the more you must inevitably lose.
But if death is nothing, then the only something to invest in is life, If you wish to be something rather than nothing, then this is an easy choice.
>>8246083
You've read too much Ligotti and now you're spooked, in both senses of the word. Go outside, take a walk, watch some shitty TV show. Get over yourself.
>>8246034
>muh pseudo science
>>8246097
I am over myself, that's why the only action I can justify is suicide. I mean, sure I am a totally superfluous non-entity. So why the fuck would I want to spend some arbitrary interval existing, ameliorating all my appetites, experiencing boredom, anxiety and depression when I could just as soon be dead? Why would I want to work a 40 hour week into perpetuity and deal with all the mundanity of quotidian life. I would have to be a chump to go along in bad faith with this sort of mass delusion that life must be great because reasons. I think its all these people who cannot even imagine the world without them that need to get over themelves.
>>8246130
you're a miserable nigger who needs to get laid and enjoy the little wonders life gives us. Stop being spooked by a bunch of miserable shit.
>>8246130
Whatever you say, my friend. Your self-seriousness is amusing, but I do genuinely hope that you find some satisfaction, in the form of suicide or whatever appeals to you. I'd suggest Leopardi as someone who shares your views and hasn't been mentioned yet.
It's not for me to say whether your professed inability to enjoy life is your own doing or not, so no more advice from me. Have a nice life.
>>8246130
>I would have to be a chump
Yeah, you are totally over yourself anon
>>8246115
Yes, it's pseudo evolutionary science, and I don't believe it's true. That doesn't automatically mean it's uninterestingly argued for, or laughable.
>>8246159
>you need to get laid
I am or at least was exceedingly attractive. I've gotten laid a ton of times. Its not a fucking panacea
guess what cunts
if you le kill yourself Naturre will just rebuild you (energy) into mold or a sea lion
thete's NO escape
>>8245179
wrong - this is WRONG
WALLOW in it, WALLOW in the revolting depths of your animal self
until you LOVE it
abstaining is an anti-life spook
you dont quit existence
>>8245412
Schopenhauer would post in Pee Pee Poo Poo threads if he was around todat
Pessimism is a mental disorder
ALL IS FULL OF LOVE
yes buddhists
>>8246050
you see his nose? the straightest part of his body
>>8245616
>the Will
imsorry, what?
>>8246202
so? consciousness stops with death, and that's what concerns me. The fact that the molecules that I consider to constitute myself will continue existing doesn't bother me in the slightest; I don't lament the fingernails I cut
>>8246215
Perhaps you misunderstand. I'm no puritan. By "baseness" I meant evil, cruelty, etc. Sex is fine, if it does not interfere with love.
>>8246034
once you have "built a system" that "explains" the world you're unlikely to allow it to be torn down and what do you know now you are trapped in your own labyrinth forever
>>8246130
>I am over myself, that's why the only action I can justify is suicide.
Haha
ok
wanting to "rebel" against existence is the dream of the Ego
you are NOT over yourself
>>8246286
It has nothing to do with rebelling you idiot. Its about minimizing personal negative utility. It doesn't get much more grounded and prosaic than that. Stop being an obscurantist cunt
ITT: Cynics.
Been there, done that by the Greeks. Boo-hoo raise against le spook. Move on bunch of losers.
>>8246248
evil and cruelty make for better sex
also spooks
>>8246297
>minimizing personal negative utility
I dont know what this means.
but why would you want to minimize anything if you're dead?
and why do you want to prove that you are "grounded and prosaic"
>stop being a cunt
Think better, you're like, level 2 at most
>>8246264
Don't you attempt to rationally evaluate any of your beliefs and experiences in relation to your other beliefs and experiences, to form a consistent worldview? I agree that people tend to stick to their worldviews rather than allow them to be vulnerable to falsification - but I think the answer to this isn't to avoid systematic thinking, but to celebrate careful open-mindedness as a virtue (also, to recognize that we might only have to adapt our worldview, rather than tear it down completely and rebuild from scratch). It seems like it's a requirement of rationality to examine our beliefs together for their compatibilities. What's the alternative? Welcoming cognitive dissonance?
>>8246317
Right now I am doing a balance sheet of my life which is a valoration of all the positive aspects/events against the negative and ultimately this will determine whether my life i worth living. It is fallacious to say "my life is worth living and here is why" because it may be that it is not worth living.
And I don't want to "prove" anything, I just want to deplatform you. Take your stupid imputations of cosmic rebellion and shove them up your ass is what I am trying to say.
>>8246343
>It is fallacious to say "my life is worth living and here is why" because it may be that it is not worth living.
Jesus Christ you are stupid
you have already guessed that it isn't worth living so why bother making a balance sheet (lol what the fuck man) of your life if you already know what your conclusion will be
I hope you are trolling because this is getting me hot and bothered
You cannot "deplatform" god little shit
actually be true to yourself and kill your self, not "some day", or after your life-spreadsheet i completed, but now, right now, right this moment
please
>>8246300
They're obviously not objectively wrong, but they make me deeply sad.
>>8246363
I am mostly just going in circles until I have the horse-sense to do it. But I am working on it family.
>>8246299
>Move on
That already seems to be their plan.
>>8246226
>ALL IS FULL OF LOVE
>tfw something in me won't relent, open up to the idea of readily loving others and being loved
man is abhorrent
>>8246562
Unironically watch Evangelion.
>>8246567
>flood chink-toon with outre symbolism
>such profundity
>what allusions
>>8246579
Why would you think I recommended it for the "symbolism", "profundity", or "allusions"? It deals with exactly the problem he's facing, in a very direct manner. Anno never claimed to be profound.
>>8246591
I just assume you were offering some overly well-intended analysis of the random Christian elements as a kind of wisdom on love. Am I wrong?
>>8246600
Well, some of the Christian elements, such as the picture I posted above, are meaningful, but their meaning is also presented in literal ways. Anno is very much a modern Dostoevsky, balancing a disgust with himself and humanity alongside an overwhelming desire to love and be loved beyond reason. Analyzing the symbols can be fun, but the wisdom on love is stated quite plainly.
op kys and i mean that sincerely
>>8245106
I don't believe that it can be escaped. If they do escape it then what is the point of their existence? What is it that motivates them to continue living? The act of living is a part of the human condition. They give up all their needs and wants but then what? How do they survive in a vacuum of meaning in a world without hope or purpose? What keeps them going?
>>8245407
>Love and beauty are to be given and appreciated, not scrounged for desperately
You've spoken like a truly deluded person devoid of any and all lucidity. This is the state of a person who seems to have been brought up in a rich family with good genes and a good education and has never had to face crushing isolation or loneliness in life. Someone who is so blinded by all the happiness, pride and satisfaction that they've routinely come across in life that they've forgotten what it means to be an individual without any of this.
An individual without companionship, love, freedom, happiness, food is reduced to state where he does nothing but scrounge desperately for all of this. Desperately debasing oneself in the hope that someone will notice or appreciate him/her. Repugnant and lowly. You will realize this some day when you're not as content as you are right now. You will see how utterly abject an individual can be when deprived of the things that sum up his needs and wants.
>Love and beauty are to be given and appreciated
To whom? To someone who is willing to accept that from you. Again, the desperate scrounging to find someone who is willing to be a part of this transaction. Absolutely disgusting and abhorrent.
The entire human condition is a vile joke.
>>8245642
>When he said that you can't extinguish the will through suicide
I genuinely do not believe this and don't see how this can be true or why he believed this. I think suicide by definition is EXACTLY the extinguishing of the will. I'm not sure what led him to believe that the will continues infinitely and will always produce consciousness. This is where I feel he loses track and enters the realm of groundless speculation.
> it's just one strong instance of utilizing your will in exchange of regressing to a much less conscious and suffering-prone state of existence.
I agree with you senpai. I feel like he did cop out and never really fully committed to the most important consequence of his doctrine.
>>8245642
>>8247252
suicide from philosophy is not dealt by the liberals, therefore is the most dangerous to the human rights, precisely because the perspective of the philosophical suicide lies outside of the doctrine of the human rights: this perspective says that human rights are nothing but conventions and makes the liberals standing before their contradictions: the one where they are not able to justify their authority, just like the liberals complained that kings were not able to justify their authority
[in fact, kings justify their authority by their lineage, which pisses off the liberals'; the liberals justify their authority poorly in saying that ''the people wants us, the liberals, to be in power''; the trick then is to carefully select what they call ''the people'']
the nice trick by the liberals is to obfuscate their authority into an implicit one, more compatible with their hatred of explicit authority [=tyrannies] : they claim thus that the human rights are natural, that any humans think that the human rights make sense [with the faith that they will be backed-up by their faith in what they call science] and anybody disagreeing on this is not a human, but an animal [=a reactionary].
so the suicide outside of depression is dangerous, because it shows that liberals cannot counter the lack of motivation to live. the liberals prefer to focus on suicide from pains: this one enables them to say that ''the human suffering'' must be answered by... science and faith in the human rights, in one word, the occidental humanist doctrine. pain/suffering is always the decisive motivation to get things form the society, in a liberal society.[as minorities, workers...]
you grow up dumbass. the only reason you have time to wallow in your condition is for lack of conviction in a world that requires many. any time you see something shitty remember that its cause was this mentality. this belief is what makes all the miserable, miserable things in the world.
suicide makes sense only in hedonism (once you fail to get your pleasure). outside of hedonism, there is no reason to die, just as there is no reason to live.
Reminder that suicide the utmost expression of the faith in a self and that suicidal people do not believe in death.
suicidal people despise life so much that once they understand that they are inefficient at getting what they want, they go in the opposite direction of ''letting go'' in clinging, more than ever, to their desire of pleasures.
they cling so much that hey fail to pierce the notion of self.
if people believed in their death, they would be able to endure any pains on earth, they would not be scared of dying nor of pains.
when we believe in our death, when we believe that anything stops ''at death'' (reminder that you cannot prove that you will die, just like you cannot prove that you have been born), you do not have a problem taking a few hardships. it is not a few years of suffering which scare you, since at the end it stops.
What if you kill yourself but are reborn as yourself? Doomed to relive the same existence eternally?
Bet you'd really kick yourself if happened. A real goof.
I realise this isn't an original idea but I think it's one worth considering if you're in mind to eliminate your own map for keeps.
>>8247237
>237
>that picture
what the fuck.
>>8245946
>Misery. It is the only respectable occupation in this life.
/thread
being unhappy is the quintessential aesthetic
let none doubt your truth, for surely none would choose thus willingly
I can see a lot of depressed people in this thread. Their arguments are characteristic of depressives, which is not to say those arguments are without value – they are simply engendered by a chemical imbalance and a set of conditions which are all changeable to some extent or another provided one bites the pillow of Stoicism, acknowledges their narrow span of control, and works towards widening it using the metaphorical buttplugs of exercise, positive selftalk, and other memes. Likewise, I see a few drug addled degenerates and New Age cultists who are similarly hemmed in, only by a different set of chemicals and conditions. I myself am hemmed in by my constant horniness and urge to control people, but I am neither depressed nor addled by any severe chemical imbalance, and I have secured the conditions of my life favourably such that I can solipsistically announce that I think I know what I'm talking about.
Here is how it goes: We are all sacks of meat who evolved intelligence only to help the genes inside us propagate themselves. I can empathise with OP's disgust towards the human condition – it is simply another system of control meant to corral us towards a particular outcome. Everything we do serves our evolutionary purpose: our diets, our choice of career, even our personal quests for meaning in the face of absurdity, which itself is only a remedy for the side effects of intelligence – the alienation and disgust that arises when one steps into the box of "Rejecting the Human Condition".
As for suicide, I shall say that it too is another consequence of intelligence. We kill ourselves because we can't take the pain of life. But then are you really "rebelling" against the human condition, or are you simply doing as you are evolutionarily programmed to do? We seek pleasure and avoid pain – the carrot and stick which our evolution has built into us – but only humans have the lateral thinking capacity to take preventative action towards the causes of unbearable pain by committing suicide. In this way, we are still fulfilling the human condition as prescribed by evolution – seeking pleasure and avoiding pain.
Counterintuitively, I believe you can reject the human condition by embracing it. Once you fulfil your basic needs, you can step up Maslow's hierarchy and work on self actualisation. If your needs are fulfilled such that you feel neither pleasure from fulfilling them nor pain from neglecting them, then your needs will only be in your awareness as abstract concepts. You will be in a very delicate metastable state of posthumanism. You will be free to poke holes in the universe and freerun through the intersecting boxes of philosophical inquiry until you trip on the entrance to the box marked "nihilism" or some other such box that has a hazardous ledge at the entrance. Don't beat yourself up over it – everyone trips on the entrances to those boxes at first. How you think your way out of the box is a different matter...
>>8244992
I can't add any philosophers that haven't already been mentioned. I can understand why you view the human condition as base but why does that have to have a positive/negative value system ascribed to it? I don't think the only answer is suicide. The answer is void. Suicide is just a manifestation of that. There is nothing wrong with killing yourself but you can also just do your best to fill yourself with void and an unfeeling that reduces everything to valueless information. Suicide is a very valid response but it isn't the only one. No fucks were given in the making of this post.
>>8247703
>henry rollins
>>8246363
>Jesus Christ you are stupid
No I'm not.
>>8246621
>Anno is very much a modern Dostoevsky
summer everyone
>>8247290
dude feelgooddeskchairphilosophy lmao
>>8244992
You must respond to the repulsiveness of the human condition with irony. That way you at least get a laugh out of life.
>>8246130
antinatalist are so edgy. I'm just about to finish "Conspiracy against human race" and it basically sound like 12 years old emo-metal tween teaching 'philosophy'.
>>8247915
people who have children are the real edgelords
>>8245106
Not just the human condition, the condition of existing itself.
>>8247218
By "they" here you of course mean actually Enlightened people, like the Buddha himself or the various Arhats. Not random Buddhists.
>I don't believe that it can be escaped.
Read about the Four Noble Truths for an argument on why it's this position that is nonsensical.
>If they do escape it then what is the point of their existence?
What is called Nirvana is liberation of the mind. The present body stays, but none of the unpleasant and pleasant feelings the person experiences because his mind was bound to causes and conditions arise. There is no more feeling neither good, neutral or bad; what remains when those are removed is perfect happiness, nirvana. Therefore there is no point to their existence, but there isn't a point to existence in the first place. Those who realize this either kill themselves, fall into depression or fabricate points, all because they have the need to pursue feelings to live. Enlightened beings are already imperturbably happy beyond feelings, they just live.
>What is it that motivates them to continue living?
Compassion for most (so that they can assist others in escaping the condition), force of habit or "just because" for some. One instance of Arhat suicide is recorded however, in the case of an old one who fell into great illness and thought that he might as well abandon his body now rather than wait for the illness to kill him soon.
>They give up all their needs and wants but then what?
Misunderstandings about Buddhism 101. How are you going to abandon your actual needs? How can you stop your body from requiring water and food to survive, or going to the toilet? You can't. These keep their presence, because existence in a body has certain conditions imposed to it. But no suffering arises due to them.
Wants should rather be called craving. The cravings that are the craving for sensual pleasures, the craving for becoming (applies while alive) or existence (applies in death, causes rebirth) and the craving for non-existence/annihilation are abandoned. Meaningless wants such as going for a walk remain (one can argue that going for a walk would be connected with sensual craving, but since that doesn't exist in the case of an Enlightened being, and is not a harmful nor beneficial action for oneself or others either, it is meaningless or neutral). Good wants such as helping those who ask for it to be established in the dharma, or something simple like bringing something to drink to a thirsty person also remain. In all cases the unshakeable mind abides, so these actions are pursued for their own sake or for the sake of others exclusively.
>>8247218
>How do they survive in a vacuum of meaning in a world without hope or purpose? What keeps them going?
Vacuum of meaning (which is the real state of existence) and no hope (which is nothing but wishful thinking with or without basis), but peace and happiness. A fair exchange I'd say. As for purpose, it can remain in the form of the wish to do things to alleviate the suffering of others in accordance to the Dharma.
>>8247991
>Those who realize this either kill themselves, fall into depression or fabricate points
*or study the Dharma to eventually escape the meme altogether, of course
>eastern religion
wew lads, shiggy diggy
>>8247237
You're entirely incorrect, I'm a very unsuccessful person and I've never felt genuinely connected to anyone in life, only through the proxy of art. I've come to that conclusion precisely because I haven't been given good things. But whatever, you're obviously not going to change your mind any more than the other person who replied to me so let's not waste our time.
>>8247862
The irony of being elitist about a humanist writer isn't lost on you, I hope.
>>8244992
Frank Zappa
Emil Cioran "renounced humanity"
>>8245106
Not quite, Buddhism is about transcendence thereof so rather like "be in the world but not of the world".
I think Buddhism has a lot to offer OP, though. Taoism as well, with their brilliant illustrations of dualism which serves minds of those like OP by lifting the curse of rigorous deduction in rational discourse.
You sound like a confused edgetard.
Your passions are what drives you. You feel an "absence of any clear purpose or meaning" because you reject your passions. If your goal is ultimate freedom from desire, go be a buddhist or a stoic.
If your goal is literally anything else, you need to stop looking down on your fundamental drives and learn to use them to your advantage or live with them.
>>8247290
No I think its affirmation of life that drives the iniquity in the world. I mean mot people who have the luxury to deeply consider life and then evaluate it positively are westerners essentially living off the back of the third world in blithe ignorance.
>>8247355
>implying utilitarian hedonism isn't the most valid philosophical discipline bar none
>>8244992
Just become a Stoic, OP.
>>8247363
>eternal reccurence meme
Even if at some quantum level that happened how would it ever feel like more than one life?
>>8245198
I don't know what is but there's something disgusting about people calling known thinkers as "edgelord".
>>8247915
I agree and would never read Ligotti when I still have Cioran on my reading list. You can turn any philsophical system into solipsistic wank. Nietzschean Babbies like The Amazing Bananatheist demonstrate this all the time.
>>8249036
>>8249036
>your passions are what drive you
Exactly what is so detestable to me. Read the entire post. I feel that we're driven by these shitty passions that are ingrained in human nature. Passion to seek out love, achievement, companionship and other needs such as food, water, comfort etc.
Without these things we're in a state of dissatisfaction, craving, needing much like a drug addict facing withdrawal. It is deplorable that we're so utterly dependent on these things.
Why can a human not just "exist" as a singular without having to perpetually hunt for companionship, security, food, love, beauty? These drives are what make us act as deplorable rats looking for cheese in a sewer.
>ultimate goal freedom from desire
this has to be the penultimate goal. because once this is achieve then what? then there is nothing. no peace. no meaning to be found. no purpose to fulfill. just an absurd existence.
>>8249051
were the stoics able to rise above their inbuilt desires for all the things that people generally crave? Things like love, companionship, achievement, success etc?
>>8249067
because the people who generally use the word for prominent thinkers are generally too stupid to come up with a shred of an original idea. The absurdity of a fool reading someone else's original ideas and notions and telling himself that he could easily have come up with it retrospectively and even done better.
All these people generally tend to have a smug satisfaction about dismissing prominent works with this phrase which they think puts them above those who are revered by so many for helping push the wheel forward. It's a bit sad though because I doubt any of them will ever write anything even remotely new or influential or thought provoking in their entire lives.
>>8247827
>I can understand why you view the human condition as base but why does that have to have a positive/negative value system ascribed to it?
Because it has brought a lot of anguish to me and as a consequence I have begun to detest it with fury.
There are others who have found love and beauty and friendship and success and they absolutely adore humanity and what it means to be human. I on the other hand see our compulsion towards these pursuits as abhorrent which brings dissatisfaction and resentment on failure. Even if I do succeed some day I will continue to hate the human condition for what it is. An inescapable struggle for these pursuits.
My answer: suicide is not a solution but an act of rebellion against the misery of being a slave to all the needs and wants of a human being. Committed out of spite and contempt as a final act of protest.
>>8249275
Once again you can couch suicide in lofty terms all you want but ultimately it is a pragmatic decision made on trend-prediction of the overall utility of one's life. Or else it is done in a moment of indescretion.
>>8249226
>because once this is achieve then what? then there is nothing. no peace. no meaning to be found. no purpose to fulfill. just an absurd existence.
I have no own experience on this but I think the idea in Buddhism is precisely that freedom from desire is peace. How do you figure the opposite? Meaninglessness and absurdity can coexist with peace, I think.
OP here.
>>8247703
I like you. Thanks for giving a well worded response that at least attempts to address my proposition of suicide as an act of rebellion done in spite and contempt in protest against the slavery of the needs and wants of a human condition.
I suspect that this act (as you mentioned) might not be one of rebellion as it can be explained by my human condition itself. You claim that it falls within the realm of my needs and desires: to extinguish pain and seek happiness. But suicide brings neither. It does not necessarily reduce my pain or bring me happiness. For all I know, I could have lived an enriching life in the future but I am willing to give it away as a mark of protest. So despite your argument that suicide will not be a rebellion, I still believe that it may be.
................................................................
As for your own suggestion, I find it quite interesting, once the basic needs are taken care of, I'll be free to pursue philosophical inquiry? That is what I'm doing right now. My basic needs of food and water and shelter are secure.
The secondary ones: companionship, love, self actualization, however are not. How do you propose dealing with these?
>>8249293
I'm just theorizing here since I haven't achieved that state yet. I feel that freedom from desire would be incredibly liberating and would bring a lot of peace. Yes. But you still would feel an uneasiness, emptiness or pointlessness to living in an absurd and meaningless world. I am unclear on what motivation they would then have to continue living.
However another anon pointed it out above in this post:>>8247991 that they continue to live/exist in some state.
>>8249287
See this is where you're wrong. I'm suggesting a third alternative. There's a reason why it does not fit in either of your two categories.
1. I do not know whether I will live an enriching/fulfilling or unsatisfactory life yet I am willing to throw it away as a mark of protest against the abhorrent nature of the enslavement of the needs imposed by the human condition. So clearly I am not accounting for the overall utility of my life since it is irrelevant here.
2. It is not a moment of indescretion. It is a planned act of protest based on willful rejection of a state.
It is not either of the two categories you listed. It is a third. A protest. A rebellion committed in contempt.
>>8247991
Thank you for the detailed reply. It was quite helpful.
>Enlightened beings are already imperturbably happy beyond feelings, they just live.
What makes them happy?
>>8247703
>Everything we do serves our evolutionary purpose
Not true, aside from the fact that there is no "purpose" in biology, think of something like your hand, it definitely didn't evolve to type on a computer, but it's one of the many functions it's been co-opted for.
>>8247703
>teleology in evolution
reevaluate your worldview mate, it's based on dated 19th century pseudoscience
>>8246161
Misato a cutie
>>8245064
Have you read Demons by Dostoevsky?
>>8249807
Isn't Demons just Dostoevsky's fictional portrayal of how atheists are UGH like LITERALLY the worst people in the world?
>>8245307
Not him, but I know why you suspect that. Everything about life is illusive and ultimately comes to nothing so you enjoy pushing the limits and frightening yourself with knowledge and ideas.
>>8247237
It is a joke, I've also come to this conclusion. I don't agree with your assessment of that anon though. He sounds like someone who spent time in lucidity and couldn't handle it anymore so came up with things to distract himself.
>>8247252
You haven't pushed far enough if you don't understand the idea of eternity. You speak like someone who is ready to commit suicide with no actual point to do so other than defeat.
Hume. We're nothing but a theater of swaying images. There's no single impression of the self, just an entity we prescribe perceptions to.
From the OP
>I know there are a lot out there who think of themselves as splendid beautiful beings but they haven't seen their natural state: one that exists without distractions that bring happiness or pride or confidence which are things that blind us and take away our self awareness and lucidity.
I don't see why this is relevant, to see what it would be without,
if we're never without anyway.
>>8247276
I've come to the same conclusion regarding liberals. They claim to advocate life, but really do the exact opposite.
>>8249834
He's footing on a case of real life asshole anarchists.
>>8247363
This isn't what Nietzche meant by his idea of eternal recurrence
>>8249893
What does that have to do with this thread?
>>8249906
that was schopenauer's idea, doy
>>8249834
No, if you read Kirillov's thoughts on suicide, you'd find they're very similar to what OP was talking about. Demons is my favorite book by Dostoevsky, and if you understood existentialism you'd likely agree.
>>8249944
Sorry, I haven't read Schopenauer yet. I've been meditating on existentialism which is my first philosophical feat. However, Neitzche also writes about eternal recurrence.
>>8249372
Like I say, you are an idiot. You can easily extrapolate a trend. Nobody is going to stay alive on the off-chance that a millions of dollars will fall out of the sky onto their lap. If your life is in a downward spiral its pretty moronic to just assume the situation will improve.
>>8244992
gautama
cioran
schopenhauer
ligotti
benatar
hegesias
>>8249324
Good counterpoint around suicide.
According to Maslow's hierarchy, you cannot truly fulfil higher level needs until the needs of the preceding levels are fulfilled. However, you are evidently pursuing philosophical inquiry, which is part of the higher level needs of self actualisation and the creation of deeper meaning, but it is also evident that your lack of companionship, love, and self actualisation are informing your process of philosophical inquiry. Doubtless an instance of yourself who had all of their needs fulfilled would have a different outlook.
There are two ways to fulfil one's needs: either act such that the needs become fulfilled based on current demand, or remake oneself such that one can find fulfilment in their present situation. A number of philosophical systems have been devised around the pursuit of the latter – Stoicism and Zen have been particularly useful to me. If rebellion against the human condition is what you seek, then certainly restructuring yourself to reduce your needs would be a step in that direction. Of course, you will always have needs – but their fulfilment becomes a mere chore when your focus and intention for existing is trained on a higher purpose.
I have an image I call upon whenever I am confronted by such existential dilemmas as these. I see all of humanity as a group of terrified children clinging to the trunks of trees in order to shelter themselves from the wind of a snowstorm. The trees are our belief systems – they shelter us from the storm of meaninglessness that is the natural universe, or perhaps in your case from the disgust of realising the futility of the human condition. People move to different trees as needed, always exposing themselves to the storm in the process, but nonetheless arriving at the tree they sought. Occasionally they will become lost and die in the storm.
Some of the children, however, realising the folly of this game, decide to reject the situation and purposefully expose themselves to the storm. In doing so they experience pain and confusion, and are eventually forced to return to a tree, but they become stronger from the experience, and can eventually build up a tolerance to the storm. The end goal is to explore the world beyond the forest and the storm, if indeed there is anything beyond it at all. I explore the space between the trees through art, particularly art that deals with the idea of pure chaos. I liken works and styles of art to pieces of a great map that documents the landforms of the forest and beyond. I think a great deal of the subject falls beyond the ken of conventional human thought – art, insanity, and the individual experiencing the storm are the only escapes from the futility of the forest.
OP here.
>>8250463
I agree that one could either go about seeking fulfillment in one's current state or rebel by restructuring oneself to reduce the amount of needs/wants one is driven by. I think this sort of restructuring might be a sort of rejection/rebellion against my human nature. I used to feel that such a restructuring is not possible and that human needs/wants of companionship and love are inescapable which caused all the contempt that I feel. But I suspect that such a restructuring might be possible and I intend to certainly try it out.
Your image is very interesting and one that I feel inclined to agree with. I realize that most of us don't expose ourselves to the storm by letting go of our trees/belief systems too often. Here I intended to rebel against the storm, in anger at the incessant nature of it which does not afford us any peace or calm. I suppose it is up to me to make peace with it like the Buddhists do or find a way to rebel against it (by not letting the storm affect me as much as it does).
Thanks for the reply. You should post on this board more often.
>>8249807
I haven't. Will read it. some anon in this thread mentioned that a character "kirillov" might have something similar to say.
>>8249842
I am chasing the feeling of coming across a brand new philosophical system that causes in me an epiphany or a feeling of sudden clarity or revelation that I first experienced when going through some of my first existentialist works.
It is frightening but I don't mind it at all. I genuinely want to have my worldview challenged but I feel that there is little that does it. Maybe some good posters here on /lit/ or a good books that put things in a different perspective.
>>8249863
I don't know man. Maybe. I've noticed that the happier or more satisfied and content people generally are the less lucid they seem to be about things. They see the world as a beautiful magical place with eyes full of optimism.
>>8249871
You missed the entire point of why I suggested that action. It is not defeat. On the contrary it is a final mark of protest.
>>8249887
>If we're never without anyway
are you serious? are you claiming that people without these distractions don't exist? that achieving a state without happiness or pride of confidence is impossible?
>>8249956
it is not in a downward spiral. stop assuming things. you have missed the point. don't bother arguing.
>>8250321
thank you anon. exactly what i was looking for: suggestion on thinkers with similar ideas.
I guess I stumbled into the wrong thread tonight
>>8249402
No "thing". It's not actually a feeling since it's a "state" that doesn't depend on anything or any conditions. Sariputra put it as "the absence of feeling itself is bliss" when questioned about this. For us ordinary beings happiness exists on a tightrope. Every time it arises it can go away as swiftly as it did, or even be replaced by unhappiness. We can describe it as an expectation of our supply of pleasant feelings overall, and so is obtained via the satisfaction of certain cravings, good or bad. Once it is obtained and experienced, we want to maintain it, so we do things to keep a steady supply. But it is never permanent and has no infinite supply. Happiness as in nirvana on the other hand is described -even though comparison with feelings is not appropriate in the ultimate sense because it's not a feeling- as a happiness beyond even the feelings the highest meditative state can bring. It doesn't depend on a supply so once it appears, it stays (this is the only permanent "thing" is Buddhism, but precisely because it is the only unconditioned "not-thing"). Since it's also a state that we cannot imagine without having experienced it, because we all experience conditioned things, Nirvana is generally always described in negatives such as unborn, deathless, without suffering to give some kind of approximation. So maybe it's more a question of "why are they happy" rather than "what makes them happy".
>>8249348
>But you still would feel an uneasiness, emptiness or pointlessness to living in an absurd and meaningless world.
That would mean you're still connected with desires (such as craving for meaning. Having meaning generally creates happiness for people. IIRC simple workplace studies show that people place more importance on it than other factors like money provided the basic necessities are covered, that's one simple illustration of it). So Buddhism makes a case of rising above even that, to a state where judgements of "pointlessness" and "absurd" don't apply to begin with.
>>8249931
I'm not that familiar with Nietzsche so I don't know much about his "eternal recurrence" aside from the time is a flat beer can memes and it's been a long time since I actually heard something about it, can someone explain what that description of his exactly is?
>>8251622
why don't we see more people opt for buddhism if it allows you to achieve such a state?
C'MON, LEAVE HUMANITY BEHIND
#MUTANT
>>8252386
Achieving that state takes years, or dozens of years, or even multiple lifetimes of correct and diligent practice and study, according to the person's capacity (except in the case of Pure Land, which is why that tradition has always been a true populist tradition even though not so simplistic interpretations also exist). But regardless of that, I would outline 3 reasons. The third will be a biased one.
First is that it's lost its hip cred. It was very fashionable at one time in the West, but like any trend it got replaced. So everybody and their moms don't get into it anymore. In East Asia it's also due to the loss of hip cred, as it's frequently misunderstood or associated with death (especially in Japan).
Second, while Buddhism was the world's first missionary religion, the history of its spread was completely different from Christianity and Islam. Today it works differently as well. The missionaries of those religions are very active and fervent, while Buddhism's missionaries aren't. On one side this is an issue of simplicity and comfort: Christianity and Islam both ask for submission to God, and with that eternal happy life is pretty much guaranteed. Buddhism asks for trust in the Buddha, then proceeds to stack complex theories, hard practice, difficult to accept concepts and a soteriologic frame in which the endgame isn't even 100% understandable. Most people will choose the former. On the other side Christians do a lot of charity work and paint a strong positive picture of Christianity with it while Buddhists have been less active in that field, at least internationally.
Third, most people today either consider that they figured everything out or did so to a satisfactory degree, and deep down have too much pride and confidence in their own point of view to think that this 2500 year old religion could offer more valuable things than any other way of life. I was like this too so I believe that I understand that mindset well, but of course I'm biased. Many people I know would be truly fascinated by Buddhism if they ever started studying it, but they don't (at least for now) and stay at some sort of safe "spiritual" position. And also a lot of people today I think just don't have serious cares beyond materialism.
>>8252386
Also concerning my second point, it would be a joke to suppose that the majority of Buddhists today (or through history!) practice the meat of Buddhism beyond devotion and basic ethics. In most traditionally Buddhist cultures the merit-making for a better rebirth in which practice can be truly performed, or for the sake of gain in this life, are prevalent. Subsequent generations may continue in that way, or they might take up the actually important parts of Buddhism due to more intellectual leanings, or abandon it altogether. Difficult to guess at this point. We should also note that Buddhism spread into new countries like China, Korea and Japan as a state level because the rulers considered it as something that could protect the State. But today this devotional aspect cannot be the basis of what will draw people to the Buddhist path; the 2 largest religions are much stronger in that field than Buddhism can ever hope to be.
>>8245134
>yoga and meditation is better than heroin
>>8252454
kek
>>8244992
I think a good read and one of my literary favorites that are like this is:
Osamu Dazai's: No Longer human
I wish the chemicals in my brain didn't revolve around sex as a mechanism for feel good. goddamn it's biting me. I'm reading against nature which may help some of y'all niggas being able to empathize with a guy who's done it all and found nothing substantial enough but i haven't finished it yet so imma go kill myself byebye
