Do you believe in logic?
Yes.
>>8235726
What logic do you prefer?
>Do you believe in belief?
Logic is binary, i.e. simple.
Belief in logic is a nerd's religion.
>>8235737
>Logic is binary
>>8235739
>responds with a "yes/no" as to whether logic is binary.
>>8235743
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/logic-manyvalued/
>>8235747
Speak for yourself. Logically.
>>8235733
Is this a valid question? Any takers?
>>8235730
You know damn well what you are doing, just get to the point.
>>8235766
>You know damn well what you are doing,
I thought I did until you wrote this.
>just get to the point
What point?
>>8235753
logic doesn't exist, it's a creation of the human mindz
>>8235766
Beliefs universally make people pissy due to lack of tolerance toward others' difference of opinion about said beliefs.
Beliefs shut down thinking and being challenged to think about them is like trying to wake a hibernating bear by poking it with a stick.
>>8235723
No, noit really. People still turn down a lot of great ideas because they aren't "logical" but when you ask them why something illogical is wrong they say something like, "I'll feel bad if it's not logical."
the question is malformed.
>>8235776
Isn't the world itself a creation of our minds?
>>8235779
Anyone who is a valid scientist understands that theories can't be assumed to be logically sound before they are tested. Therefore, sound scientists do not get rabid about being surrounded by pure logic, everywhere in the universe.
>>8235781
our minds are a part of reality like everything else
>>8235787
Mind disappears - reality disappears.
>>8235787
minds don't exist.
>>8235789
the apparatus of perception disappears. if your computer breaks down, does that mean the internet has ceased existing?
>>8235795
there is no "apparatus of perception"
>>8235795
If a tree falls in a forest, but there is no one around to hear it, does it still make a sound?
>>8235798
there is no "there is no "apparatus of perception"
"
huh anon i guess it is fun to just negate things and feel smug about it
>>8235803
How can one know anything?
>>8235800
>If a tree falls
What, like it tripped on ice or something? What you smoking mate lmao.
>>8235800
for sane definitions of sound, yes. or was i supposed to answer with a question too?
>>8235804
for some, making up constructs that aren't really "there" is fun
I think it's silly.
Dealing with reality is more of a thrill and more rewarding for me.
>>8235809
No, if it does a straight fall, like tower 7.
>>8235808
you can predict an event
This thread has become a mockery of logic.
Blasphemy.
>>8235816
there is no 'reality'
>>8235827
but there's your mechanical predictability
then someone asks 'what is there'
then you say 'nothing'
/thread
>>8235834
there is no 'predictability'
>>8235845
there is no 'evidence'
>>8235835
>have hurt feelings when it is implied that your existence is not monumentally important
/thread
>>8235774
He thinks you're goading him into dialectics.
>>8235845
>It'll still be there when you respond
Dear self: I was right!
>>8235850
OH. I almost feel like a drug dealer now.
>>8235850
You think you're psychic.
>>8235848
>>have hurt feelings when it is implied that your existence is not monumentally important
where was this implied?
>>8235851
there is no 'self'.
>>8235855
Your logic is stupid.
>>8235858
logic doens't exist
>>8235851
>It'll still be there when you respond, I predict, too.
>Dear self: I was right!
Is that circular logic?
>>8235866
it's pic related logic
>>8235854
Do (You) believe in solipsism too or is it just me?
>>8235866
Probably. Circular logic is superior to linear, anyway.
No, logic believes in me.
>>8235872
I don't believe in anything. Can't be bothered to.
It's not that I believe in not believing.
I am biologically lazy.
Get it? Bio-logical. Makes you think, huh.
>>8235876
Pure logic is, "You're special."
>>8235866
no, he could have died spontaneously while i answered.
>>8235877
>I don't believe in anything
not true, by the way
>>8235723
Well the thing about logic is that it's supposed to be akin to a machine. Logic is mentally constructed abstract machinery. It either works or it doesn't work, it requires no belief, and the results of logic are "supposed" to show clearly whether it has failed or not. If a car engine is constructed improperly, as a logical argument might be, then it just doesn't work. No amount of belief will change it, only changing the logic or "construction" of the operation will work.
Hope that answers your question.
>>8235884
Why is "smug negations" now being logical? Refreshing!
>>8235891
What do I believe in? I'll believe in what you tell me I believe in. I promise.
>>8235893
Logic as a tool. Do you believe in logic as a tool.
>>8235894
there is no 'refreshing'.
>>8235899
you're a tool
>>8235898
Now we're moving somewhere.
>>8235898
believe in my dick ;^)
but in all seriousness, you do have beliefs
>>8235893
You believe logic works. You said so by using logic as a solution against logic that didn't satisfy whatever.
>>8235903
You're a tool.
>>8235910
yer mum's a slag
>>8235912
>I believe you're not too sure of anything.
??? i'm not sure what that means but i'm sure now that ure a fag lol
>>8235907
You realize that this very conversation is happening as a result of logic implemented into computer code right? This isn't magic happening here.unless you just want to see it that way, I'm cool with that
If/when logic works it is self-evident is my point.
Logic fails constantly but that is a result of the rule: Garbage in/Garbage out
>>8235926
You believe it was logic's doing, but maybe it was something else?
>>8235926
So, you believe in the logic of a computer software, not the "human mind," in operation. This is more tangible, I'll agree.
It is an error to assume that the human mind operates conversely like a computer. There is no evidence to support this.
>>8235926
yes but the thing is that logic will not always work. it's a model of reality, a good one, but it's not reality
>>8235941
reality is beneath logic.
logic is an attempt to formulate a better reality.
>>8235935
>It is an error to assume that the human mind operates conversely like a computer.
No I don't think it does, but that mode of operating can be done by the human mind, obviously since it was the human mind with created computing. The human mind is capable of so much more than mere logical computation, of course.
>>8235982
> since it was the human mind with created computing
Since it was with the human mind the sistine chapel was conceived, it's no problem if it burns down because we can just rebuild it with all its artwork complete.
>>8235982
>The human mind is capable of so much more than mere logical computation, of course.
I'm refraining from rolling my eyes. Not that I'm disagreeing necessarily, it's just the wording--we're on a literature board, so critiques of this nature are apropos.
>>8235982
>since it was the human mind with created computing
What logic allowed evolution and DNA to build a mind? let along one that wants to shitpost about logic.
>>8236013
The argument against logic worship right here, folks.
Define "Logic" using your Logic.
>>8236017
The pointing a finger at and laughing argument
>>8236013
I meant computing as in logic machines, not the phenomenon of computing itself
>>8236023
I was agreeing.
>>8236013
I bet you wonder what those funny symbols mean when you look in a math book
>>8236021
logic ded
>>8236035
I didn't say it couldn't be logic, DNA is information.
>Guys, logic isn't real
>continues using computer
>>8236049
>again, worship of computer software
>>8236057
>using computer
>shitposting on 4chan
>having debate about logic
>think logic has anything to do with beliefe
>imply implications
>le worshiping computer software
>logic isn't real
>shitposting on 4chan
>continue using computer he doesn't believe is real
>>8236060
An argument for circular logic. I can accept that.
>>8235723
>If you believe in logic
>>8236368
yeah logic
>>8235737
Tetralema
>Shits on logic using logic
Great thread everybody. Keep up the good work.
>>8237513
thanks
>>8235723
No, I believe in reason.
>>8237580
Reason is a derivative of logic, genius
>>8237694
no it's not
Logic is the laws of the understanding.
>>8237830
Is correct grammar logical?
>>8237842
You're a retard, that post is grammatically correct.
>>8237844
It was just such a stupid concept, it was hard to tell.
>>8237848
Only a stupid person would think that.
>>8237860
What "law" are you applying there?
>>8237865
I'm using my faculties of the sensibility and understanding to find it out.
>>8237871
No "law" there. Foolish wording, then.
>>8235723
Logic is a belief system just like any other belief system. Even empirical facts are facts that you choose to believe unless you observe them many times yourself. Proof is math and math is proof I guess. Logic leads to observable truth, but logic can also backfire.
However, without logic there would be human chaos. As it is the most cohesive belief system that can be directly applied to human life.
>>8237897
Logic can be passionless. Belief has a modicum of passion.
>>8237897
>As it is the most cohesive belief system that can be directly applied to human life.
How do you actually apply it to human life? At what point during your daily activities do you go "by modus ponens this action should take place"?
>>8237884
Here's your (you)
>>8237940
I already have too many.
Keep it.
>>8235789
mate.....if all humans disappeared, would forests not still grow? would dust not still gather? would seasons not still change?
>>8237768
yes it is lmao
>>8238018
>2019
>platonist
>>8238018
logic is the product of reason, which is a form of the mind, which is the reflection of the material conditions of production.
i believe in the dialectic, but as we all know, the dialectic is something quite outside of belief, logic, and reason altogether.
>>8238010
What if everything is just a construction of your mind, a dream?
>>8238027
what is reason the product of?
>>8238044
our lord
>>8238033
Then I would be delusional.
>>8238044
reason itself is an empty signifier which has throughout history been filled with the dominant modes of philosophical and scientific thought most compatible with the interests of the hegemonic class that preferred them.
>>8238059
it's a metaphorical construct that doesn't actually exist.
got it.
>>8238046
cop out
>>8238074
i didn't say that.
>>8238083
i get to say things you don't say. you can't do a thing about it.
it's your choice to pout.
>>8235785
There is no such thing as a 'valid scientist'
>>8235926
le empiricism xdddd
>self-evident
wow so logical
>>8237307
Why is this mistaken? If logic cannot stand to logic then why to the people that worship it take it seriously? Logic is illogical.
>>8237830
>understanding
No such thing exists
>>8237897
>observable
Empiricism is unempirical.
>>8238093
cool post
>>8237994
You're not getting the last reply
>>8238105
>No such thing exists
Wrong
>>8237904
It is considered illogical to state that gravity doesn't exist. Or the atom. It's illogical to state that other human consciousness doesn't exist outside of your own. Many people get passionate about such beliefs, beliefs that they themselves cannot prove in their own house.
>>8237938
What kind of question is that? What do you mean? You never try to think about what would be the most logical decision to make in certain situations?
>>8238119
Belief has nothing to do with gravity. What a horrible example.
>>8238117
Right, stop deluding yourself.
>>8238119
>You never try to think about what would be the most logical decision to make in certain situations?
What do you mean by logical?
>>8238127
He means laws based on reason, or something.
>>8238121
So you don't believe gravity exists? Let me guess, you know gravity exists? How? By trusting numbers and scientists? Are you a scientist? If not, then what are you basing your decision upon? Logical fact right? What is your logical fact based upon? It's based on upon what you were told to believe. I am not saying believing in something is wrong but you have to accept we no matter who you are you have to hold a belief somewhere in life even if it's logic.
>>8238136
I don't think about it. Why would I waste my time with that. Since it doesn't make a difference, I don't put any energy into it.
You're applying religious principles to science. What a waste.
>>8238150
Except most people who worship science to make themselves feel smarter treat it like a religion anyways.
It doesn't matter if you think it doesn't make a difference all that matters is explaining why believe in logic? Because it brings some semblance to the universe? If the universe is all purely logic doesn't that mean everything could be eventually deduced logically and proven to be predetermined?
>>8238174
I don't care about people who worship science. They can be silly if they want to. The modern idea is that people can worship how they choose.
I still have my opinions about their choices though, but they're not that important either.
>>8238125
Wrong
>>8238119
>What kind of question is that?
The fact that you answer like this shown you have no idea what you are saying. You don't demonstrate an understanding of formal logic and can't even give me an example of what logical thinking would entail.
>It is considered illogical to state that gravity doesn't exist. Or the atom. It's illogical to state that other human consciousness doesn't exist outside of your own.
No it's not. Most practicing physicists believe atoms "don't exist", in that they are only abstractions of reality at best that only partially model the expected behavior of experiments. You have no reason to rule out these ideas and declare them incorrect. Likewise, there is no theory of gravity that unifies it with all other physics.
>>8238195
> You have no reason to rule out these ideas and declare them incorrect
Why should I consider them correct? Why should I consider them incorrect?
>>8238258
>Why should I consider them correct? Why should I consider them incorrect?
Whatever reason you feel is reasonable.
>>8238275
My reasonable reason goes back to my reason for being reasonable.
>>8238275
I think the big question in "believing in logic" is sincerely believing that we live in a cohesive singular, ultimately logical reality, without mentioning the possibility of other realities of course.
Otherwise logic are rules that phase in and out of reality depending on perception.
but you are right im not good with words and you are smarter than me.
>>8236049
>>Guys, logic isn't real
>>continues using computer
there is no contradiction here, by the way
>>8239992
You don't much about coding do you?
>>8240095
How much would you need to know?
>>8237694
Reason (x) -: Logic'(x)
>>8237694
Other way around. And both have been BTFO by empiricism.
>>8240515
Please tell me how logic has been BTFO by empiricism.
If logic worked you'd be a lot happier now.
