Are there any high school english teachers on here? I've realized at 23 that I'll have to eventually take on a wagecuck existence and am considering this path. It seems like it could be a lot of fun, and you get summers and winter breaks for travel and writing. Thoughts?
Yeah sounds good OP
If you get to teach higher classes with students actually interested in literature it should be pretty cool
I know nothing though lmao
You can make an impact OP
I had a badass high school teacher that actually had a class exclusively on James Joyce
I probably wouldn't have been able to read Ulysses otherwise
>>8023659
I had a based HS English teacher who got me into Kafka, Joyce, Jung and Kant, and I know it sounds cliched but I think he literally changed my life.
OP, if you feel like you can actually teach well and aren't doing it for the 'easy job' meme, you could actually help reignite interest in literature.
>>8023620
>>8023659
>>8023685
Thanks for the positivity, that is really appreciated especially on this site. I had always thought about it and was encouraged by a few teachers, but I guess in my stubbornness I never wanted to become a high school teacher. Now I have a different perspective and the postgrad humanities academic grind and job market seem really depressing. I'm not passionate enough about STEM fields to make one a career.
It does sound like a good vocation, it might be difficult to make literature appealing but at the same time it would be tremendously rewarding if you could actually get people to see the common humanity in works across the ages.
>>8023698
>it would be tremendously rewarding if you could actually get people to see the common humanity in works across the ages.
Every time I came to my English teacher with some new personal insight on Joyce or any writer like that he completely lit up. I definitely think that it's rewarding.
>>8023579
I don't live in the us, but surely a better job is community college professor?
You can do an MA or even a funded MFA if you teach creative writing too, you earn more money, your students are there because they want to be and if you don't like it your masters is in your field rather than in education.
Although i'm with you OP in the general idea, im coming to a similar realisation that I hate office work and my only passion is what i study really.
Teaching seems to be the only way really.
>>8023579
look up John Taylor Gatto.
The pic in OP is spot on. I still reflect pretty frequently on some awesome teachers I've had over the years, including high school. Plus, like you said, the benefits of time off and a relatively short work day are enormous pluses. Go for it OP.
Anyone ITT actually an English teacher though
>>8023659
>You can make an impact OP
This is an extremely well-studied matter, and the consensus is that teacher quality has a tiny impact on student performance. The idea that you as a teacher have an impact is simply wishful thinking, a pathetic attempt to justify your useless job.
>>8024487
I am an ESL teacher, don't have a bachelors in education but I have a TEFL certificate which basically allows me to work in countries desperate enough. can't recommend it enough if you love travelling. feel free ask me anything if you are interested in that sort of stuff
>>8024515
Yeah I've been half thinking of bumming around Asia for a few years doing ESL but I thought everyone does that these days
Plus wo zhidao some hanyu so idk if that'll help me
>>8024528
That's the thing the asian market is pretty diluted. Central america is where I enjoyed teaching the most, and I suppose Argentina and Chile would be good too, which is where I plan on heading next. Less money earned but less money spent at the same time. If you really want to make bank in asia South Korea is probably the place to be from what i've heard.
Will almost certainly become a teacher in some way, perhaps a high school literature teacher. I have taught private lessons and been a substitute teacher for the past two years and am really enjoying it. It's a quietly thankful and satisfying experience to feel the progress of thought in a student, basically by the socratic method. I had a girl who literally couldn't place Hitler in a larger context and she ended up acing the final exam.
Also, I might be able to plant the seed of cultural marxism in some kids. Not even kidding.
Also, teaching is (still, somewhat) a respected and well paid vocation where I'm from (Scandinavia).
>>8023579
>tfw I wanted to fuck my high school English teacher
>she was 21, short and thick
>would still do it even if she 40 because it's now deeply instilled in me
>>8024541
Yes,brother place the seed marxism in the kids and bring in the new caliphate (scandinavia) inshallah
>>8024538Haha but how will I slay mad Asian pussy in Latin America?
Argentina or Chile would be cool though, I imagine. I'm sure there's like a Borges museum in Buenos Aires or something. How diluted is Asia? I'd still rather teach there.
>>8024551
You don't know what you are talking about :^). CM =/= identity politics. A lot of marxist theory is deeply critical of identity-based explanations of society. See for example Zizek.
>>8024487
3 years deep into my Adolescent to Yound Adult Education degree, so i'm pretty close
Please take some actual education courses. It's good to be well versed in your content area, but if you can't tell me about your various students' zone of proximal developments, how your lesson plans cater to multiple intelligences and extend into culturally relevant pedagogy, etc., you have no business teaching
>>8023579
go for it OP.
A good teacher is quite like a good parent, so don't even obsess about whether they'll read the damn books or not. Just be a good influential literature-loving figure for them.
>>8024504
I'm not going into teaching but have friends that are and the way I look at it is even with that research, do you think society is anywhere near socially ready to accept not sending kids to school? In that case, if compulsory education is going to stick around, might as well have it be taught by people who want to do it and make it suck less for the kids.
I am an English/history teacher at a high school in Germany (27 years)
Nice wage, good working conditions, love it
>>8024596
Also this
In loco parentes my man
You literally ARE their parent while they're with you
This is why it's near impossible to find good teachers with mindsets like /pol/ and the like. You know these kids and come to find out that it's never a question of cultural deficit but just X's parents work a stupid amount to be able to keep food in the house and the like
You better care for those kids.
>>8024552
More like places like Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam where they are lots of english teachers as in diluted. Just be careful for jobs that ask for money upfront, south east asia is notorious for scamming. I'd still say go for and do some research before choosing a country/s. yeah I was actually planning on visiting the small museum they have and also his grave but turns out borges is buried in Switzerland, who knew
>>8023579
Being a teacher is a great choice. Think about it this way- even if you teach for only 2 or 3 years and you move on to a different field, it looks great on a resume. Teaching experience never hurts.
>>8024629
delet this
you should never put teaching experience on a resume, everyone assumes that you're a loser who had nowhere better to go
>>8024610
Yeah I wasn't thinking SE Asia, maybe China, Japan or Korea. I'd love Japan but something about the grimy, polluted vibes of Chinese cities draws me in. I'd love to go back to Beijing, I went there years ago ona school tour and stayed in the traditional district (hutong) in winter and it was the comfiest shit. How's the market in China? I imagine Beijing/Shanghai might be diluted but what about regional cities?
>>8023579
High school English teacher in the U.S. here.
The job is really what you make of it. Most of the students aren't going to be interested in literature, but some will, and, if you have the ability, you can turn more on to it.
The job is much more than just literature, though. If you are going into teaching, your goal should be to do the best you can at helping your students along a path towards their best possible futures. For instance, one of my classes is Intensive Reading (see: remedial). Maybe one or two of these kids will end up in college, a good chunk won't even graduate high school. Half of them are barely literate at 15/16/17 years old. Am I really going to try and get them into Kafka and Whitman? Hell no. I'm going to improve their reading and writing skills so they can pass the standardized tests needed to graduate, then understand basic things like a lease agreement, help them figure out a plan of what they want to do after high school and how to get there, etc.
The honors classes I teach? Ok, yeah, I work to develop their appreciation of literature, but I do the same sort of things with them in terms of planning for their futures, how things like leases and loans works, how to get scholarships, etc., because nobody else is teaching them that stuff.
I also would encourage you to regularly attend their events like sporting events, band concert, whatever, even if you just show up for a minute so they see you. Thay goes a long way in developing relationships with them so they trust, respect, and listen to you.
Also get involved in sponsoring an extracurricular or two. I am my school's mock trial coach (I went to law school before becoming a teacher), and plan to start something next year that will be like a book club meets college literature seminar course. We will study works from a specific movement/time period/region/etc. each semester. These, too, give you tje opportunity to forge relationships that allow to make a greater impact with your students.
I actually had to take a personal day today, so I'll be popping back in every now and thrn throughout the day if you want to ask anything else.
Oh last thing, yeah the base salary is pretty shitty, but there are plenty of ways to significantly supplement and boost your income if you're willing to put in some extra work.
>>8023579
I had one history teacher who sat me aside one day before I took a test -I had solid B's in the class, but would led class discussion- and he asked me very simply: "Do you try?"
Probably changed how I view the world and myself more than any other moment. I was a lazy little shit up until that point and never focused on school that much. It took some time but I changed my tune.
>>8023579
I've considered this as well, considering I need a source of income and literature is my only passion.
My dilemma is, if I were to teach English I'd want to teach at the undergraduate level at least, but that would require me to get my MA and probably a PhD, the downsides of which are obvious.
On the other hand, I could try to get an MFA and try to become a creative writing professor? I think I'm more confident in my writing ability than my ability to keep my grades up, go through the song and dance of grad school apps, suffer through a PhD program while accumulating debt, and then graduate, only to be shut down by a complete dearth of college English teaching positions.
SoMcDonald's it is
>>8024661
>I went to law school before becoming a teacher
Not sure how common this is but I think you've posted about your job on /lit/ before, you said something about being turned off by the immorality/shitiness of legal work? Anyway idk, I saw that post ages ago.
Also, what things specifically supplement your income while teaching? And how often do you actually get students interested in literature?
>>8024661
So, how much are your student loans since you didn't continue being an attorney? I just finished applying to law schools, and I considered being a teacher before that- do you have any advice for me? Why are you teaching instead of practicing?
>>8024562
You sound like a boring teacher.
>read this
>take notes
>test friday.
>>8024650
Not sure man, but I'd reccomend visiting Dave's ESL cafe job board for starters. Good luck
>>8024749
???
Not sure how you got that from that post, but okay
>>8024785
actually it does seem like it buddy
>>8024797
But catering to multiple intelligences and understanding zone of proximal developments allows for individualized higher level pedagogies, not direct instruction and lower order thinking
But you don't know these things, ao why bother
>>8024842
you're coming across as a neophyte, bro
>>8024842
>But catering to multiple intelligences and understanding zone of proximal developments allows for individualized higher level pedagogies, not direct instruction and lower order thinking
I didn't understand any of this. I'm 15.
You've failed at your job.
>>8024855
(just to clarify, I'm not really 15. dont want an underageb&)
>>8024855
I'm not explaining to a child, i'm explaining it to an adult who should understand that it's not just "I LIKE AND KNOW ABOUT BOOKS NOW I CAN TEACH"
from Plato to Rousseau to Piaget to Vygotsky, there's a lot of important concepts and ideas one has to understand to be an adequate teacher who ensures student success, comprehension, and connection with course content
>>8024895
"...ensures student success"
god, you sound like someone who just took their first class.
>>8024562
>Thinking buzzwords make for better teaching. Seriously, you're gonna say that your tailor your lessons to catter to your various student's zone of proximal developments? Unless you gotta some mathematic model nobody knows about, I'm imagining you making your lessons while watching the office and thinking about how Joey and his friend are kind of stupid so I got to be slower on that grammar rule.
>>8024562
>3 years deep into my Adolescent to Yound Adult Education degree
bwahahah i've never met anyone with an education degree who wasn't a big fucking dummy, i got shanghai'd into teaching some high school one semester and i came to the conclusion that anyone who would choose to work in a high school has poor mental health or is just lazy as shit and wants a secure union job but without having to lift heavy things or get dirty, either way a bunch of fucking mongs
>>8024661
where did this guy go
>>8024842
Please create a trip and start a thread teaching everyone some /lit/. You probably have plenty of diversity in this community. You obviously have the skills to do it.
Remember to be creative, fun and interesting!
>>8023770
>relatively short work day
I'm a mediocre teacher and I work 9 hours a day. The teachers who prepare properly and have interesting lessons work far longer.
>>8024562
>Please take some actual education courses. It's good to be well versed in your content area, but if you can't tell me about your various students' zone of proximal developments, how your lesson plans cater to multiple intelligences and extend into culturally relevant pedagogy, etc., you have no business teaching
Actual teacher here, the education courses I took at university were fucking worthless. I work alongside brilliant teachers and they all know that the stuff you're talking about is unhelpful bullshit.
Seriously, I can't wait until you actually teach and find out what's really important.
>>8024842
You're just using buzzwords in an attempt to sound more intelligent. In a practical context, this is all you're suggesting :
Vary your teaching methods to include all students and help them make better progress.
>>8024504
>This is an extremely well-studied matter, and the consensus is that teacher quality has a tiny impact on student performance.
Do you have any sources for this? After searching around on Google/SSRN I didn't see such a consensus.
>>8024562
>Buying into the education buzzword meme this hard
I can tell you have not been in the classroom yet. I am not saying this to offend. I just finished my first year teaching, and it is going to be my last. Education courses are a complete and total waste of time. Focus your efforts on mastering your content area. "Differentiated Instruction", "21st century skills", etc are all buzzwords that educational "academics" use to get PhD's. For real, during one of my PD days someone from Mizzou came and played "Go Fish" with us that was based on some of their research. What a fucking joke. I am going back to school and leaving this field. Work in a private school.
Now is a GREAT time to become a teacher, as long as you start now. They don't have enough teachers because of No Child Left Behind making nobody want to be one, but NCLB is ending and they're trying to shift away from the whole ALL STANDARDIZED TESTS ALL THE TIME bullshit
>>8025063
Sorry, phone's been acting up and I don't have a personal computer.
>>8024723
It's possible, I've posted about it before.
Things like sponsoring clubs/coaching sports is the obvious one, but getting certified for things like ESE and intensive reading usually gets you an annual bonus as well, even if you don't use them. If you can get into teaching AP, you should get a small bonus for each student who passes the AP exam (my district gives the teacher $50 for each passing test score. Here in Florida we now have a huge bonus (~$8400 this year) if you scored high enough on the SAT/ACT and earn a rating of "highly effective" in the classroom.
Then you can always offer tutoring services. I plan to start that this summer for all levels of English, PSAT/SAT/ACT test prep, even LSAT prep if I can. Also, since the Duke TIP program has become a big deal in my community, I will offer services for that.
>>8024748
I went to FSU law, ranked somewhere around 45-50 in the U.S., one of the better schools in terms of bang for your buck, had a half scholarship for the first 2 years and walked out with about $78000 in loans. That also included $16000 I took out to put straight into buying a car, and another roughly 2000 that went towards a vacation. The rest was tuition/books/living expenses.
I decided practicing law wasn't for me. I spent time working, interning, and volunteering in a variety of fields and environments, and I was always completely miserable. Really got into teaching in large part because I wanted a steady income and benefits (spent a year couchsurfing and working random jobs, even ended up homeless for a couple weeks, didn't like how I was living anymore), but then I immediately fell in love with it and it turned out I'm really good at it.
As far as advice for you, do as much research as possible into what law school and working in the legal field is really like before you drop tens of thousands, even 100+ into the education. Figure out why you really want to go and if it will help you do what you really want to do. I went because I didn't know what else to do with my undergrad degree, thought it seemed like a good idea. If you don't really want to be there, you'll be miserable.
>>8026080
>they're trying to shift away from the whole ALL STANDARDIZED TESTS ALL THE TIME bullshit
Who is "they"? I'm thr english teacher/law school grad, and all we do in the 4th quarter at my school is test. We have state standardized tests for reading and math that they take every year and MUST pass in 10th grade to graduate. Then they have EOCs (end-of-course exams) for practically every subject. Not to mention beginning-of-year, middle-of-year, and end-of-year tests, PSAT, ACT Plan, all tje AP courses students are encouraged to take that have exams at the end of the year. All they fucking do is test. Last year at my school, teachers lost anywhere from 20-30 days of instructional time because of testing, not including the time that the kids were actually taking the tests themselves. That was just from classes being displaced for kids to test, teachers being pulled to proctor, etc. That's 11-18% of the school year. Thankfully we have a new assistant principal for curriculum this year who went beast mode about testing and the impact was minimized, but it is still out of control how many tests these kids take.
>>8024723
Forgot to answer your last question. Mostly I havr no success getting kids into literature if they had zero interest before. It's pretty much just a matter of directing existing interests. For instance, kids who are always reading, but reading John Green and other YA novels can be guided towards an interest in literature of "more literary merit" or however you want to put it (I hate the phrase, but you know what I mean), or kids who are all about slam poetry can be guided towards an appreciation of "real" poetry (again, stupid label, but you know what I mean). The kids who come to me with no interest in literature, I have extremely limited success in sparking such an interest outside of getting them to actually read assigned works.
Also, captcha thinks a U-Haul truck is a recreational vehicle. Cool.
>>8024504
If only you had a good teacher, you wouldn't have such poor critical thinking
Do you think having an impact = improved performance on standardized tests? If so, you are in the darkness on an entire field of inquiry, and you would literally need to become my student to a actually open your mind.
>>8023770
Teachers work much more than people imagine. Parent phone calls, lesson planning, grading, office hours, meetings, etc. It's also just a very difficult job.
>>8024541
Lucky bastard, I wish I was born in Finland and became a teacher there. Good on you spreading the good word of Marx, I try to do the same.
>>8024661
Thank you for your service.
Also base salary in certain states is pretty solid, for public schools, and within a decade could easily be over 70k.
>>8025855
Lol do you not want to be an amazing teacher? I agree that we should simply hire more teachers and reduce our class requirements though.
>>8026080
I'm not sure what you see or read, but standardized tests are in their golden era, and it's ruining education. I'm talking about multiple tests, multiple practice runs, multiple weeks of actual testing and retesting. It's literal insanity.
>>8026233
I wish I could talk to you outside of 4chan since I have follow up questions but are person info. Are you a teacher in NC? (since you mentioned the Duke TIP program)
>>8023620
This.
If you get a manageable number of smart kids who are invested in what you're doing, even if they're young, it's awesome.
But you won't. You'll get fifty dindus in a room made to hold thirty, and when you're not preparing for a standardized test you'll be reteaching eighth grade's lessons for kids who aren't ready for fifth grade's lessons.
Yeah, I'm mad.
>>8024560
If you're using cultural marxism in that sense you're probably too retarded to teach regular Marxism.
The term is a right-wing oogabooga.
>>8026472
also, don't go into teaching if u value ur liberal and leftist beliefs because after dealing with enough of these kids you'll realize minorities and poors problems are brought on by their own shitty work ethic, criminal tendencies and all around piss poor attitude
>>8026478
when people saycultural marxism they're talking about marxist cultural critics aka hotdog school aka zionist jew crew, if u dont know that u probably don't know enough about marxism to teach it
Both my parents were English teachers, but one taught the language itself to foreigners.
Get your Masters so you can get better money and teach higher level classes.
>>8026472
Well, that's because the U.S. has a perverse idea of what education is. You see, you can't put information into the heads of a crowd that illiterate and large. You are expected to try to teach them- how? How do you "teach" fifty people in one room in a limited amount of time while being paid in crumbs? Well, you don't- but you give a lecture. Yes, a lecture. You can answer questions here and there, but you give a lecture or a performance, and then follow up with any questions or concerns from your audience. Then what? Then they leave. You aren't teaching, you're lecturing.
What is teaching? Teaching is tutoring. Actually sitting down and investing time and practice with the individual, in the way Aristotle did with Alexander. That's why you see better performance out of isolated, low populated and homogeneous academic institutions. Not with government funded lab experiments- the poor are lab mice.
The concept of a "public" education is really a daycare or a center of indoctrination, and any serious academic understands that education is a personal responsibility.
>>8026437
No, I teach in southwest Florida. Duke TIP is pretty widespread.
If you want to create a throwaway, I can email with you.
>>8026506
>That's why you see better performance out of isolated, low populated and homogeneous academic institutions.
then shouldn't Newark NJ have the best schools since they have 90% black students, union teachers with fat pay, benefits and pensions, and small classroom sizes? i used to believe the meme about small classes until i looked at class sizes in districts and the best schools had bigger classes andlots of whites and asians
>>8026514
I didn't include anything in my post regarding race, but I will since you've directed your concerns there.
Yes, whites are smarter. Both of our points still stand.
>>8026520
what points? that smaller classes are better? how is that Harvard Business School has huge classes in auditoriums but is the best business school in the world then? Should some community college with 5 students in business 201 have better results then? class sizes are a spook for lazy thinkers, for all the idiotic "education phds" churned out by degree mills i can't believe this crap is still allowed to be believed
>>8026537
i said that education is a personal responsibility.
you continue to mention that large college classes work
it's clear from my "nonpoint," as you assume it is, that the debate was regarding young children (elementary, middle, high).
The brain of a child is different than that of a young adult, adult, and so on
>>8026520
>Yes, whites are smarter.
i've seen some smart black kids from africa, but the weak willed bottom feeders who allowed themselves be enslaved and sold off to whitey are clearly retarded
>>8026537
So, to answer directly, Yes- I think that those who want to go learn in a large group or small group should be able to do so- it should not be enforced by the government to force you to do it one way, and with a certain number of religions and ethnicities present for "diverse" effects.
Again, I will say yes that a small group of children would be better than a large mass of children learning together- as I said, homogeneity is an important factor.
>>8026549
Yes, it's the bell curve. You will have some smart blacks, you will find smart ones in every race, but it's few and far between. I'm not saying that there are no smart black people, i'm saying that there are far less. Not to mention the genetic predisposition of behavioral and criminal behavior of specific races
>>8026564
human social groups can go up to 40 or 50 people so i don't see why the classes have to be as small as a nuclear family, something that didn't exist until recently in history...prison blocks are split into sections of 50 because more than that and the inmates can't "know" each other and become a group, go bigger and you risk violence as the amount of people gets too big to be personal with each one...now don't get me wrong, if ur in the teachers union you definitely believe small classes are better, after all it means more jobs for u and ur homies, but there's not much saying that it's better for the students
>>8024562
yo i educate adolescents too if you catch my drift
>>8026580
>i don't see why the classes have to be as small as a nuclear family, something that didn't exist until recently in history
Before we go any further, would you care to elaborate what I have greentexted?
>>8026549
Yes, brother. Let us chop off niggers' testicles, roast them, and eat them. Hang that nigger from a lamp-post. The stupidest and worst are those who die in war. Brother, can you tell me where you live? I want to go out with you and we can find us a good nigger and bash his head against a brick wall in a dark alley. His skull will crack open and his brains will pour out, whereupon we shall dance the Macarena upon the poured out brains and, with daggers, stab out his eyeballs. Hopefully he will still be alive so he can writhe around moaning in impotent and hopeless agony as we tear off his testicles with our bare claws, grown out and sharpened with a file for just this special occasion. Likewise our teeth shall be sharpened with files (mine already are), and with them we shall bite his cock off and chew it then spit it into his gibbering mouth like a mother bird feeding its child; then we shall jump on his stomach with our full weight, taking turns (I am about 250 pounds and should cause his organs to burst), and then we can decapitate him and hang the head from a lamppost. I hate the niggers whom this happens to. The stupidest niggers are the ones who let us do this to them. Let us go kill them, brother.
>>8026570
i definitely get the feeling blacks have problems with long term planning and/or judging consequences of actions...also, so many of them seem to be "dyslexic" which is just a doctor's note saying this kid is too dumb to read that it's not a surprise none of them developed writing until islamic imperialists came in and enslaved them
>>8026537
if you have motivated and well-behaved students class size isn't that big a deal. if you're in a bad district class size is the difference between it being manageable and total chaos.
>>8024846
>>8024855
>>8025193
>>8025917
not that anon, y'all are retarded
>i don't understand this guy therefore he's wrong
>i know more about teaching than a teacher
>i am not a teacher
if you don't understand it then shut up, clearly the conversation is not directed toward you since you are not going to be teachers. yall are the equivalent of layfaggots accusing a physicist of being dumb because he uses terminology
>>8026592
sorry, jose but i'm not mexican, the MS13 cell block is on the other side of the quad, i'm just trying to do some reading with my fellow whites
>>8026598
>bad district
just say it, we're on 4chan, we can be honest about
>>8026613
lmfao
>>8026604
from what do you infer that any of these people aren't teachers?
you seem to be confusing 'being a teacher' with 'being a pedagogy academic'. enjoy getting wrecked in the classroom.
t. a real flesh-and-blood person
I've been to schools all over the U.S., private, public, rural, city, poor, rich, from nearly entirely African Americans to nearly entirely White Americans, trust me, you want to move somewhere like Maine or Northern Minnesota to a small town with predominately White Americans if you want to teach; otherwise, you will likely hate your job and will want to commit suicide before a year's over.
>>8026472
>>8026484
>>8026520
>>8026549
>>8026570
>>8026595
/pol/tards are out in force. You people are mental degenerates, you know that right? You make fun of blacks , but you're dumber than a bag of hammers.
If you guys aren't just /pol/tards, stay away from the classroom, your needs and society's need would be better suited it you became a street sweeper in the desert. Away from everyone else, with no street to actually sweep, but too stupid to realize it.
>>8026773
it's probably the case that there is a natural intelligence difference between blacks and whites, however much you or i might dislike it.
there are, however, some few reasons for optimism. there's that study of half-black germans born to black american soldiers who as a group scored on intelligence testing equal to native born germans. and there's james flynn's contention that the linguistic environment very young blacks face at home rather than genetics is responsible for a large chunk of the IQ gap, which can be amenable to cultural change.
>>8026773
I think you're not being much less ridiculous than the clowns you're responding too, but I just wanted to drop into say I'll be stealing that street sweep in the desert bit. That's pretty inspired, anon.
>>8026773
not an argument
>>8025880
history teacher chiming in to say i agree.
>>8026773
>/pol/tards are out in force. You people are mental degenerates, you know that right? You make fun of blacks , but you're dumber than a bag of hammers.
since you obviously never had to teach in a black school feel free to gtfo of the thread
>>8026500
>Get your Masters so you can get better money and teach higher level classes.
Masters in English or Education?
>>8023579
Try a few months in Americorps or even a stint in Teach for America before you commit. That's the only way to really know it's for you. I've had many friends go into loan debt for masters degrees in teaching only to change careers once they get a taste for the work environment.
Also–having toyed with this same idea at 23– instead of teaching, take some online business classes instead. Apply to any internship involving a for-profit focus. Take the GMAT after a few years, get a top 25 MBA, be set for life. Enjoy extra resources to pursue your life interests.
>>8023765
Do not get an MFA expecting a teaching job. Those with MFAs and teaching positions obtained them through their published work, it's not a prerequisite to teach, and it's not a professional certification. Look at the employment statistics before you do this, it's a big mistake.
I have one, but I've thankfully switched career focus. They're fun, but they will add to, not pay your bills.
No one in my graduating class is employed as a professor, most got unrelated jobs, some went into entry-level publishing.
>>8027202
I've been trachig undeserved kids for years. The difference is I'm not a stupid racist who sees his students through such primitive analysis.
>>8026798
>>8026789
Teachers should first be able to learn, can you?
>>8026797
Ridicule is the only way to treat such bottom feeding scum. And thank you, I tried just a little.
lol teachers are shit , I would rather die in a fire.
Don't do it. Just don't.
HS teacher of 5 years here. Before I joined I had this image of myself being the wise but relatable figure that kids would love and rally around. I chose books that were interesting and often chose those that dealt with the teenage experience. I tried to be friendly and inspiring and attempted every day to communicate my own love for literature to kids who had the privilege of standing on the threshold of a life in which literature might play a part.
Two years in my ambitions had all but faded and each lesson became an exercise in restraint and mild authoritarianism. The only kids who related to me and who were actually interested in reading the books I assigned were those who reminded me of myself during highschool, i.e. the shy, naive and submissive edgelords who wear pinstriped fedoras and try unsuccessfully to join in the conversations of their peers by shouting memes and buzzwords. I actually feel bad for encouraging an appreciation for literature in these kids. I am burned out by paperwork and bureaucracy, training courses have taken the place of paid holidays, stewarding after-school clubs and events and all the other tedious stuff that makes people look down on teachers as nothing more than childminders hired by the state.
>>8023579
there are great teachers I agree. But like good writers or good actors or good professionals in general, they are far too rare. Chances are you're going to be an asshole teacher. So, try your best and don't become one of them.
>>8027956
I would have made a powerful argument from many modes of inquiry, shown you the insanity of using your social construct to judge others, and even provided powerful and sound reasons why any percieved difference in intelligence arises from a multitude of social, economic, psychological factors, but the average /pol/tard is unphased by the truth.
Instead I'll show you a brief clip from Viktor Frankl, and if you can even for a moment imagine your complicity in a racist machine, that the very way in which you THINK about your black students, is the very real mechanism by which they are kept down. You MAKE them as they are, because you SEE them that way. Think, this could be the most important moment in your life if you don't lack the courage to imagine being wrong.
https://youtu.be/UgVA6nXCj1U
>>8026798
>>8026797
>>8026789
>>8027202
>>8028028
Nice vid. /pol/tards btfo
>>8026773
This sounds like something that one of the black students would say to the teacher anons complaining in this thread. I'm going to give you some towels to dry the water I spilled, and send you towards the ocean.
>>8028028
oh god, this outdated idealistic shit.
>you MAKE them as they are, because you SEE them that way.
I remember when I was 18. You can do better than that.
>>8028358
Take it easy with the name calling, supreme gentleman.
>>8028367
You clearly fall in line with her beliefs, although your lack of knowledge in education means you'll be googlin that real quick
>>8028413
Your beliefs align with (insert ignorant/unfashionable individual here), although your lack of knowledge in (insert subject here) means you'll be (insert search engine verbiage here) real quick.
lmao PC fascists on suicide watch.
can't escape from the fact that blackies are genetically less intelligent as fuck due to your grandfathers enslaving them for generations
>>8027477
whichever you prefer. any MA degree qualifies you to receive higher pay on the pay scale. it is usually based on a credit system like how collegiate courses are counted. in some districts, you only need to take additional courses and receive the credits for them to be bumped up to another bracket on the pay scale.
>>8028427
But its not genetic
Slavery does play a role tho. It was illegal to teach slaves how to read and write. Suddenly, free everyone and all these workers cant read or write, thus theybinstantly become the lower/lpwest strata of worker. Keep them "separate but equal" for another 100 years, block them from acquiring housing through redlining, have cops target their neighborhoods and give out longer sentences for the same crimes thus keeping black families apart and on lesser incomes, keep a system where you have to say if youve ever had a felony be it 35 years old, set up a system where whites with felons are preferred to black non-felons in hiring, etc., and yeah, those places where we forced black people to live thru redlining are going to suck in education
Oh and have schools be funded through property taxes, something ruled illegal by the US Supreme Court in the 80s
>>8028420
Gee wilikers, you're smart
>>8028432
furthermore, most teachers have to go through an induction program once they start a full time position at a school. the program is two years (at least in califas), and awards you a cleared credential and more credits. i've been bumped up in pay at my district by simply going to a class once a month and doing menial coursework.
tldr: there are many ways to get a higher pay as a teacher. hypothetically, teachers should be getting raises every 2 or 3 years.
Teach adults instead, they'll appreciate your efforts.
>>8028427
lmao, yea, cuz the blacks in africa that haven't been enslaved are super smart yo
>>8027477
same anon again. i just realized that you are also interested in teaching higher classes. if you are seeking that instead of simply a higher pay, then go for a MA that suits the discipline you wish to teach. you are only allowed to teach in the discipline you have a credential/MA in (there are exceptions but rare).
>>8028449
>But its not genetic
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgenerational_epigenetic_inheritance#In_humans
>>8028469
You linked me to the Contribution to Phenotypes, thus confirming either
1. you do not know what phenotypes are
2. You're so determined to find information that supports your view youmll take the smallest morsel of potentially relevant data and throw it at people
or 3. All of the above
>>8026773
Nah, you got me man. I've never actually been in front of fifty kids, the smartest and most motivated of whom weren't ready for what they wanted me to teach (not their fault, but they weren't) and most of whom would've struggled with middle school.
And I didn't say anything about causes, aside from the dindu meme.
>>8028515
>a grown adult who teaches children actually coming onto 4chan and spouting memes that 17 year olds sling
>>8028490
>You linked me to the Contribution to Phenotypes
what did you mean by this? sounds like memespeak for "I'm a teacher. I, like, know stuff."
>1. you do not know what phenotypes are
>2. You're so determined to find information that supports your view youmll take the smallest morsel of potentially relevant data and throw it at people
let me respond with something that isn't a false dilemma: was the link relevant or was it not?
I don't care too much for the minute details of the biological workings of DNA, I care about reading. Studies have shown some possible correlation between the lifestyle of the parents and the biological susceptibilities of the children. That's all I need to know for the purposes of this discussion.
>>8028545
But the link wasn't relevant
You said it was a GENETIC (genotype) change caused by slavery and the like
All that Wikipedia shows in what you linked is that PHYSICAL APPEARANCE (phenotype) can change based off environmental factors and experiences (which is a duh)
Like i said, you clearly don't understand what you're posting, so please stop
>>8028028
teach a year in a black school and get back to me, don't you realize everyone started off believing this kind of liberal jew bullshit too, but after you spend enough time in the classroom with a bunch of excuse ridden violent knuckleheads you realize everything you had been told was a lie
>>8028449
>It was illegal to teach slaves how to read and write.
Do you think any of those slaves knew how to read and write before when they were slaves in Africa? There was a case of one slave being discovered to be able to read and write Arabic, as he was a muslim commander in an African war who was accidentally sold into slavery after a loss, and when the mistake was uncovered in America he was set free...there's even a book about it that was recently published, it takes a liberal "see we really WAS kangs" stance on the incident, but what it actually shows is that the lowlifes who got sold off by the muslims who ruled over Africa were always the most retarded dregs of Africa and mostly definitely not kangs of any sort.
>>8028449
Recent immigrants from latin american countries tend to be poorly educated(some largely illiterate) yet they tend to outperform American born blacks despite facing not just racism but xenophobia.
>>8028449
>those places where we forced black people to live thru redlining are going to suck in education
lies. newark nj used to be a diverse city filled with asians, jews, irishmen, and various other whites...then in the 60 the blacks had a massive race riot and burned and looted all the non-black businesses and everyone moved the fuck out leaving nothing but a bunch of black looters to wallow in their own mess. no one was "redlined", the hardworking educated people were driven out by black lawlessness...if you want to live in a neighborhood that isn't total shit, don't terrorize people who actually bring value to your community. at the turn of the last century newark actually had a chinatown similar to many big cities, but these days outside of a few take-out spots and the NJIT campus you won't see an asian face anywhere, it had nothing to do with "redlining" and everything to do with black terror on immigrant communities.
>>8028792
one needs to have a serious dedication to become an immigrant, it's not easy at all
>>8028808
Up until recently all they had to do was walk over. Those truly dedicated are in their own countries and relatively well off.
>>8023579
>summer breaks for travel
Haha, someone's delusional.
>>8028768
As I said before, this is my third year working with undeserved youth.
Shut up with the stupid slander of the "liberal jew", it's bottom tier ideology mate. Read a fucking book.
>>8028130
I'm 28, 3 years teaching, we'll read, highly educated. The difference between you and I, is that my worldview is fundamentally constructive and positive and thus my role is as such. Yours is the opposite, and thus you both see the world through that lens, you actively create it that way.
And this isn't The Secret bullsit, or new age what not, this is the facts of reality when you actually study psychology and education. Our actions and beliefs make others react a certain way, we then respond in accord to that reaction creating a feedback system based on our initial negtive outlook. Multiply that out by 10 orders of a magntidue in all your relations and actions, and the impact of how you see other people is MONUMENTAL to your life and other people. Racism is literally an impoverished worldview built on a lie, and thus that is what your life, and the lives of the people you interwct with will be.
The label diminishes the light of the individual. You have yet to grasp what is below the iceberg, in terms of community and interpersonal relationships, and this is why good teachers are vital, they can help scaffold the development of a thinking engine capable of such insights.
I would say, go back to /pol/, but I honestly hope you don't.
>>8028872
>mate
are you even in the united states? the caribbean blacks in the uk are tame in comparison to americans
>that whole second part
no one who actually teaches talks or writes like this, you clearly have never taught a day in your life, especially not in an "underserved" area, why don't you just shut the fuck up and get some experience before you embarrass yourself any further
>>8028872
Just saw this today, not the first study to confirm this by the way.
In case you need empirical evidence of what happens when you hold certain views.
http://www.myajc.com/news/news/local-education/study-white-teachers-less-likely-to-see-black-stud/nrKpD/
And this is why I'm a teacher, I want so desperately for people to see the truth. I hope you /pol/tards may even glimpse it for a moment.
>>8028891
I see you're prone to assumptions mate. I'm an American, I just like saying mate, ok mate?
Ok, so rather than think, grow, or reconsider, you've decided to simply not believe I'm a teacher.
Pitiful man, I can say nothing else. Godspeed kid.
>>8028898
>And this is why I'm a teacher
but you're not a teacher, which is why you still believe all the increasingly flimsy excuses for black failure...i feel bad for you because the more idealistic you are going in the harder the fall is going to be on that day you come home after a day of fighting, screaming, sloth, inebriation and general disorder, and realize it you were lied to and you have that "now i can truly see" moment, which will hopefully come soon enough to switch careers, but since your degree is in education you won't have anywhere else to go, so you will keep showing up year after year waiting for the day you can collect your pension knowing you have become everything you hated when you were young.... but don't say you weren't warned.
>>8026604
This is all nonsense you regurgitate to get your degree, none of it comes into any kind of play once you get into the actual classroom.
>>8028872
>Subjective nonsense, followed by inflated sense of self worth.
So, this is the reason why people hold your beliefs.
>>8028872
You're *well read, just not well written. Everything you're accusing another of, you're committing it yourself. Read the rules you're applying and then examine yourself again. Most importantly, when it comes to semantics, how do you not see that you're applying the same mistakes you accuse others of in this flabby argument?
If you teach at a public school, you ARE the tip of the iceberg. You are deluded, but say what you must to cope. I don't want you to hurt yourself.
>>8024549
>tfw I was fucked by my high school English teacher
>he was 41, short and thick
>still remember it even though I'm 40 because it's now deeply instilled in me
>>8029189
Man you nonteacher, yoy see the true light, you get it man you GET it
You've never read a spot of actual educational text, but you GET it
>>8029219
It's kind of rude when an adult takes advantage and effects most of a person's entire life.
>>8026773
>your needs and society's need would be better suited it you became a street sweeper in the desert. Away from everyone else, with no street to actually sweep, but too stupid to realize it.
savage burn
>>8027973
What state and what type of neighborhoods have you taught in?
>>8028872
unlike the other bitter edgelords in here i appreciate yours position and hope you are not disabused of your idealism, even if i don't think you're totally factually right.
>>8030382
Thank you. If you're going to live, you may as well live well.
I'm an administrator (think principal), not a teacher, but here's the perspective I can offer:
Taking the job because it has summers and winters off is the stupidest thing you can do. I'm not saying that because I'm a do-gooder, but teaching is an incredibly hard thing to do well, and 9 months of teaching is exponentially harder than 12 months of 9-to-5'ing. You're really much better off just taking a low-stress desk job if your true ambition is to write. You have to remember that your job is essentially going to ask you to perform for at least 4-5 hours per day, and to be an at all effective teacher you'll be honing lesson plans/contacting parents/meeting with admins/grading/etc. during the non-performative hours.
I'd echo the advice of an earlier anon and recommend doing some sort of AmeriCorps program for a year beforehand so you can see whether or not you actually want to do this. You'll probably know within 2-3 months whether you'll actually be a good fit for a school environment and it'll help your first year of teaching (i.e., the year after your AmeriCorps year) be less disastrous.
You should also really consider what sort of school you'd best fit in. Charter schools can be an intriguing option if you lack traditional qualifications. They tend to pay better, but also tend to require you to be a little more adaptable than a traditional public school would be. One example - charter schools typically don't hire substitute teachers, so you'd often be responsible for covering a colleague's class if they call out sick.
You should also consider what type of school you'd like to teach at. I actually really recommend going to a lower-income area - parents typically aren't going to give you as much pushback in these areas, and kids there are wildly appreciative if they can pick up on the fact that you're passionate. Kids from more privileged backgrounds do tend to be easier to manage, though.
Lastly, it IS possible to be the Cool Teacher who connects with every kid Dead Poets Society-style and gets invites to every college graduation, but it is incredibly difficult and shouldn't be your primary focus. You'll hate your life if you're a mediocre teacher who's only in it for the summers and winters off, because it's truly a miserable experience if you have no control over a classroom and dread going to work every day. Teaching (and education in general) can be an awesome job, but doing it if you don't actually care about it will burn you out very, very quickly.
>>8026430
In my district, the base salary is pretty shit. Depending on your level of education, a level 0 (first-year) teacher can make as little as something like 38k. With a doctorate, my first year salary was 41 and change. And it's not getting better. We are literally getting a $1 raise next year. But, our last superintendent left our district in shambles financially (he had good intentions, in my opinion, just fucked up every way possible) and the guy who took over this year is working hard to fix that, so maybe things will improve sometime soon.
>>8027376
Like summer and winter holidays? Yes and no. You get a decently long break, but it's not paid in reality (yeah I get 26 paychecks per year, but the salary is prorated so I'm really only getting paid for 9 months of work, not 12), and you will spend a good amount of time working, especially over the winter holiday (if you are trying to be an above average teacher, anyway). Also, if you're single like me, not working over the summer is not an option. This summer I plan to work part-time at my local library while also tutoring as much as possible. I might take one or two weeks off to visit friends in other cities. I definitely can't afford a real vacation this year.
>>8030748
>Also, if you're single like me, not working over the summer is not an option.
why? i teach high school math and don't do shit during the summers. it's pretty nice.
>>8030894
Maybe saying it isn't an option was a bit strong. It is just difficult to pay the bills and put money away in savings without a second income in the household. I dunno about your living situation, debt from school loans, etc., but I barely scrape by (my expenses are probably higher than most, too, with things like debt from law school, ridiculously high car insurance, etc.).
>>8023579
>student teaching and about to close out four years worth of study
>fuck it up ONCE by talking about masturbation in class
>suddenly unable to finish it up
Don't fall for the education meme, everyone's a tight ass.
>>8024504
>useless job
you wouldnt even be able to write that if not for a teacher
>>8030443
Mr. Administrator? I have a question:
What percentage of teachers in an average school would you say fall into the "I hate this job" category?
From my experience working in a charter school during a gap year, several teachers often seemed as though they didn't want to be in the classroom.
>>8028367
>don't call me names
>calls name
>>8031823
haha I remember you. You never gave us the complete story of that fateful day when you were thrown out of your practicum or whatever they call it.
>>8031833
MOAR /POL/TARDS, NOMNOMNOM.
Thanks anon. There is no other fight to fight.
>>8031972
lmao here I thought 4chan was a gathering place of people of, no matter how underachieving they might be, at least a slightly above average intellect
>>8032151
I think that anon was being sarcastic.
This thread went to hell
>>8032127
I'm a teacher, not the admin, but at the public school where I work, a good chunk do sound like they hate their jobs. It drives me crazy. I no longer eat lunch in the teacher's lounge because it was just a daily bitch-fest (a lot of those who don't completely hate their jobs still complain endlessly) and I actively avoid interacting with many of our faculty members. I can't give solid numbers, but I would estimate that I would put maybe 10% into that category. I mean, I get that pretty much all of us need to let off some steam and complain sometimes, but good grief, some of these people really should not be in the classroom if their attitudes are half as shitty as they appear to be.
