Did I fuck up? I don't want to undertake this translation if it's a waste of time. I read that Johnston sticks to the prose and Nabokov tries to maintain accuracy? Should I just buy the Johnston translation?
has anyone read this book? Advice?
Either learn Russian or stop being autistic.
I read the Walter Arndt version and I liked it a lot. Obviously it's different from the original because it's near impossible to faithfully translate Russain poetry to English, but he keeps the Onegin Stanza so he had to take some liberties.
Nabokov hated Arndts version and wrote his own version which translated the poem literally but entirely ignored any poetic effects of the original. I have yet to read Nabokov's version so I can't compare the two, but I enjoyed Walter Arndt's translation.
>>7877060
Read this recently for a book club. We used the Falen translation (oxford classics) and I was really impressed. Obviously there was some clumsiness, but he strictly adhered to Pushkin's rhyming scheme, and did a damn good job of it. I had a hell of a fun time reading.
I've heard that Nabokov's translation is, like you said, intended to be "accurate" in the sense of directly translating, with no concern for rhyming or the like, and with extremely extensive commentary. Sounds great for an academic study of Onegin; not so much for enjoying the novel or appreciating Pushkin's verse.
Compare the different translations (preview a bit on amazon), but definitely check out the Falen translation.
My favorite (unrelated) stanzas from the Falen translation:
By thoughts of fame and freedom smitten,
Vladimir's stormy soul grew wings;
What odes indeed he might have written,
But Olga didn't read the things.
How oft have tearful poets chances
To read their works before the glances
Of those they love? Good sense declares
That no reward on earth compares
How blest, shy lover, to be granted
To read to her for whom you long:
The very object of your song,
A beauty languid and enchanted!
Ah, blest indeed...although it's true,
She may be dreaming not of you.
...
And what would be your own reaction
If with your pistol you'd struck down
A youthful friend for some infraction:
A bold reply, too blunt a frown,
Some bagatelle when you'd been drinking;
Or what if he himself, not thinking,
Had called you out in fiery pride?
Well, tell me: what would you...inside
Be thinking of...or merely feeling,
Were your good friend before you now,
Stretched out with death upon his brow,
His blood by slow degrees congealing,
Too deaf and still to make reply
To your repeated, desperate cry?
...
Or saddened by the re-emergence
Of leaves that perished in the fall
We heed the rustling wood's resurgence,
As bitter losses we recall,
Or do we mark with lamentation
How nature's lively renovation
Compares with our own fading youth,
For which no spring will come, in truth?
Perhaps in thought we reassemble,
Within a dream to which we cling,
Some other and more ancient spring,
That sets the aching heart atremble
With visions of some distant place,
A magic night, the moon's embrace...
Takes a while to get into the rhythm, but then it flows really well. ababccddeffegg scheme.
>>7877646
I might buy another edition of the book. I'll try to read Nabokov's translation and ignore most of the commentary.
>>7877060
>>7877098
>>7877646
I'm Russian. Short explanation:
Before Nabokov Pushkin translations were hogged by English academics of the Russian language with no language skills. And looking on the controversy around Onegin as quoted in Venuti's Sourcebook on translation theory indeed their ideas about what Pushkin was saying were hilariously wrong (think: someone has been clicking around in google translate until it was something they liked) and Nabokov was apparently the first Russian dude in America with enough cultural weight to put down his frustrations about the situation on paper.
And with everything he says I can agree, down to using "x" instead of "kh" to transliterate the Russian "х" letter. It's the same as the Scottish and German "ch" or the Spanish "x" and "j". Saying "k" instead is, pronouncedly, NOT OK. The Americans still do it and it is annoying as fuck to a Russian ear.
I believe queen Nab's Onegin was intended merely as a guidebook for future translators; because, again, everybody before him was printing delirious nonsense loosely based on Pushkin read with a Russian-English dictionary by an Anglo professor. You didn't have to be Nabokov to do the job but, of course, Vlad Nabokov was the only Russian immigrant they would listen to because he was also a pedophile.
>>7877327
Of course it's possible. Translating poetry is the same as translating a Cook Book or an Owner's Manual for an electric gadget. Prove me wrong.
>>7877117
Yes, you could listen to the Russian text while reading nab:
https://youtu.be/Ptt8S-OXCgA?t=41s
Problem is you've gotta be somewhat fluent. To me this approach helped to get more fluent as a Russian in the languages of Europe. Is Russian useful? Nopes. Except if you doing a career in space flight, geology, modern history or in transporting stuff from Korea /China /Japan.
>>7878297
Great point anon. I appreciate the accuracy of Nabokov's translations (I've also read his translation of "A Hero of Our Time."). I don't mind the loss of word flow for accuracy as long as it's not too boorish.
Nabokov's translation is unreadable. I couldn't get through three pages. He sucks all the poetry out of it.
That being said, as >>7878297 puts it, there really wasn't a true or accurate translation. It's simmply impossible not to sacrifice the original work in order to preserve melody and rhyme. That's the fundamental issue with translations of poetry. I get what nabokov was trying to do, but it just doesn't work. Although it is the most accurate, the translation is garbage. It works better as commentary than as a standalone piece of art (which is what a poem should be)
>>7878297
>Translating poetry is the same as translating a Cook Book or an Owner's Manual for an electric gadget. Prove me wrong.
Cookbooks and instructions are literal directions. While you could argue that words could be described as 'literal direction' melody, rhythm, and to a deeper extent the feeling inspired by the prose and atmosphere of piece of art are not so literal.
>>7878297
>I believe queen Nab's Onegin was intended merely as a guidebook for future translators
I've read a croatian translation where the translator explicitly says he was guided by Nab's version, so yes, this is probably true.
>>7878469
>It's simmply impossible not to sacrifice the original work in order to preserve melody and rhyme
There's no need to play up Pushkin in his middle 20s as some kind of a divine genius. The problem with pre-Nabokov translations which didn't sacrifice the meter was they didn't understand Russian well enough to also convey the meaning. I'm very sure that someone who spent more hours studying Pushkin's time and all he read than Pushkin spent being alive (at least until he wrote the poem) will do a decent job of repeating his feat.
>>7878482
>Cookbooks and instructions are literal directions. While you could argue that words could be described as 'literal direction' melody, rhythm, and to a deeper extent the feeling inspired by the prose and atmosphere of piece of art are not so literal.
So cooks and engineers are all incapable of creating anything that could be considered art? That's nonsense. The perfect translator has a native level understanding of the language and the culture of his source and of his target demographic. Whether the author he's translating was intending to convey a attitude, thoughts or directions there, is of no relevance. feeling, melody, rythm and are present in cookbooks and manuals, too, unless you're reading an atrocity level bad translation. And if you'll say that things conveyed by poem are of less importance than those boxed with a TV set, then why are you on lit? It's directions as well, which concern things more important than things you watch or things you eat.
>>7878529
>probably true
>probably
Now I am insulted. Look up Venuti's book to see all the respective arguments about Onegin. It's hilarious. The academics who were now attacked by Nabokov would appeal to dictionary definitions, the fact they have been understood in Russian shops on Brighton Beach and to the positive reactions of their readers. It leaves you in a philosophic mood about scholars in general especially if you speak Russian and do see that their rigorous scholar's discussions of every single decision they met resulted in something very different from the original text but still standing as a decent work of art in it's own right. You realize, as well, that what we know about dead language texts (and texts in languages which do not have a famous native speaker pedophile defend them from adulteration) is scholar's fancy and tradition in the loose bounds provided by the text.
>>7878529
That's strange. I would expect there are enough Yugos who'd be able to read it in the original Russian. There are a plenty of great Russian writers who are first or second generation immigrants from Bulgaria (e.g. Yuz Aleshkovsky) or Yugoslavia (e.g. Vladimir Voynovic). What's more, the dialects of Slavic influenced by Church Slavonic to the same extent as Standard Russian (Slavenoserbian / Ruthenian) are completely coherent to Russian readers given they are used to poetic language used by all the poets and the Russian Synodal translation of the bible.
ive read this in an ancient onegin collected works hardcover. it's in verse, think it rhymed, consistent whole way thru
>>7878706
>Pushkin in his middle 20s
>>7878706
Implying somebody can't create a genius masterpiece in his mid 20's. It's widely regarded as the greatest russian poem by scholars, but maybe i should take the word of some NEET on a Vietnamese image board
>instruction manuals and poetry have equal merit to being considered art
oh, i get it. youre retarded. carry on. show me the instruction manual that had the cultural impact of Eugene Onegin.
>>7878336
>geology, modern history
how come?
>>7878706
>That's strange. I would expect there are enough Yugos who'd be able to read it in the original Russian
Eh... I doubt it. Learning a whole new alphabet looks daunting and the language is still quite different. Shit, most Croats have difficulty understanding anything written in Croatian before 19th century.
Btw - how do you pronounce Pacкoльникoв? I'm wondering if Croatian transliteration of "ль" is accurate.
>>7877060
Dude, that translation is shit. It's Eugene, Oregon.
>>7879440
italian "gn"
>>7879624
or the kroatian "ль", i guess.
>>7879440
Now you're trolling.
I'm sure you have both the raz prefix and the verb, koloti (to stake (an angry vukodlak)) in your dialect, too.
>>7879414
>by scholars
>scholars
well, what was my post about?
>but maybe i should take the word of some NEET on a Vietnamese image board
The door's right there.
>impact
well, impact or genius? it did have an impact on the russians culture. painted nails on a homophobic marine, for example, is a popular culture reference. but, then, the simpsons also had an impact on the russians, and so did tarantino and the terminator. if everything that is popular is genius the popular gadgets are genius, too, and you should learn chinese to properly enjoy the manual. or did i get u wrong?
>>7879745
>well, impact or genius? it did have an impact on the russians culture. painted nails on a homophobic marine, for example, is a popular culture reference. but, then, the simpsons also had an impact on the russians, and so did tarantino and the terminator. if everything that is popular is genius the popular gadgets are genius, too, and you should learn chinese to properly enjoy the manual. or did i get u wrong?
i'm not saying anything can't make an impact, but when a piece of art transcends its medium into popular culture, usually that tsays something about the said art. I guess you could say that Eugene Onegin is the Simpsons of poetry.
Regardless, you are getting away from the fact that you claimed instruction manuals were artistically comparable to poetry.
For future posting, try not to fit the 'pretentious know it all Russian' so perfectly. It's not flattering.
>>7879765
>Regardless, you are getting away from the fact that you claimed instruction manuals were artistically comparable to poetry.
No, I said that it is about as translatable. If you know shit about Restauration era Russian poetry you cannot translate a restauration era Russian poem. If you know shit about Age of Meme electronics you cannot translate an owner manual either. So far agreement? Yes or no?
>not to fit the 'pretentious know it all Russian' so perfectly. It's not flattering.
Did you swallow a word here, like "stereotype"? Or is it you who is the "pretencious know it all Russian" and is now slobbering for me (which isn't flattering because what? because all fashionable dandies now have only the American know-nothing boytoys?)
Anyways, If you'll reply and not in the Onegin stanza I won't bother reading it because it will inevitably be another salty ad hominem and the Onegin stanza fits them really well.
>>7879865
bro i have a 8 inch american penis. i cuold make one phone call and have ur sister shipped over to be my mail order bride. id fuck the shit out of your sister buddy boy YOUR FUCKING SISTER. while ur chorging on Putin ill be fingerblasting your fucking sister. DONT FUCK WITH ME MAN. your not even that smart desu (yeah I actually fucking typed the word d-e-s-u) I could beat you in chess like bobby fischer beat that fucking russian. did i mention i have a 9 inch penis
>>7878706
I notice in my experience with Russians that they have trouble fully understanding the fluidity and looseness of the English language. It is not so rigid like Russian. Translating into English is particularly difficult.
>>7880005
tl;dr.
that's not onegin stanza.
try again.
>>7880013
Дaй пpимep.
>>7878706
>You realize, as well, that what we know about dead language texts (and texts in languages which do not have a famous native speaker pedophile defend them from adulteration) is scholar's fancy and tradition in the loose bounds provided by the text.
I think linguists are to be trusted on these matters more than (I presume y'all've been speaking of these people) literary critics.
The Penguin is the best translation, as usual. Nabakov's is a crap literal one. Garbage wannabe poet.
