How's the writing career coming, /lit/?
sent out my 40th query letter the other day.
Have got nothing in return besides form rejection and 0 feedback.
>>7849118
I know that feel, Anon. Fuck, I know that feel.
>tfw friends and family and even random strangers love the book
>tfw every agent says it's "not quite right for me"
>>7849127
I get the same thing. Everybody likes the book, a few online communities say they love the idea, think my query is strong, all that.
Then you get nothing at all from the agents, besides the same shit they send everyone. It'd be nice to know, well do you think it's a dumb idea for a book? Did you hate the query? Did you not like the writing sample? Do you just not work with books in this genre? Was your pussy just bleeding that day? I mean what? What didn't you like?
I realize they're not obligated to tell you shit, but it's still infuriating. Not really to the point of giving up, hell i'd never do that. If you read any published author, they'll all tell the same story of getting rejected maybe hundreds of times before they landed an agent or publisher. So I always think of that.
Also, one thing I learned, be very skeptical of anything you read online about getting published. Most of it is written by unpublished morons, or total hacks who just got lucky but think they're method is golden.
>>7849127
why not publish it yourself
>>7849118
I gave up on query letters after around 30 and decided to spend a few years writing short stories, trying to get myself a few writing credits on short pieces. I don't know if it'll work yet but it's probably better than sending out all that paper.
>>7849139
How much research have you done into which agents would be appropriate or are openly seeking new clients? It sounds like you're on the right track though.
>>7849147
If I can't get my shit published traditionally, then sure I'll do that.
>How much research have you done into which agents would be appropriate or are openly seeking new clients?
I research the hell out of them, usually. I've had like 5 or so I've found that seem like they'd be perfect for it. I haven't heard anything from them at all. That's even more infuriating than a form rejection, but oh well, that's how the game is played.
Today I wrote a 4 page paper about sleepwalking for some idiot somewhere. And some other stuff, can't remember what. 3k words.
>>7849162
It's possible they just haven't seen your query yet. They do get lots.
BOOMIN
Querying's a bitch, ain't it?
The main problem is that you'll most likely be entirely ignored unless you're already published in some capacity.
>>7849149
Yeah, some short story credits should help. Poems too, if you feel like going down that road.
>>7849206
I've actually gotten two short stories published in the past few months and have even more out on submission. Hopefully the more I build up my publication credits, the greater shot I'll have at landing an agent.
horrible.
i really ought to quit.
>>7849139
>Was your pussy just bleeding that day?
I'm glad you're never going to be published.
>>7849239
Someone's pussy is bleeding today.
I do it for fun.
>>7849108
I've self-published a bunch of novels, which my friends enjoyed, but it's not really catching fire. I always think the next story will be my last, but then I get a new idea that I just have to do. It's going to be like this to my deathbed, isn't it?
>>7849400
Yes.
But being a crazy hobo writer on Amazon is better than being no writer at all. Keep it up, Anon.
>>7849410
Thanks, y-you too.
>>7849239
aww, bless. Go back to tumblr you little princess.
>>7849139
(you have to suck her wrinkled clit while reminding her how much you like Jews, blacks, and women)
>published a verygarbageshort story in a tiny literary journal last month
>am waiting for several other, longer short stories I've sent out in the past year toget rejected
>about to send a new short story out to some lit mags, editing it as I type thisand cringing
>NEET for the next ten months so I can finally get started on the novel that's been bouncing around my head for two yearsor so I tell myself; I haven't even had the motivation to pick up a book in six months
>bits and pieces of assorted story ideas, random excerpts, andhomeless-man-on-the-train-tier ramblingslittering my GMail drafts for eventual inclusion in said novel
>mental state israpidly deteriorating
>alternate between feeling bretty gud about my prose andwanting to fucking kill myself from sheer embarrassment
>growing more and more unsure about whether or not I really want to be a part of thisawful, cancerous industry that treats art so terribly
The future looksbleak, desu.
>>7849432
Women are the majority of people who work in publishers and publishing agencies. There's nothing tumblr about suggesting that having a largely misogynistic attitude is going to damage your chances of getting published.
>>7849469
What's misogynistic about suggesting that females bleed from the pussy? They do, you know?
Also, even if it was, why make the judgement that just because somebody said that as an obvious joke on an anonymous chinese cartoon message board, that they actually are misogynistic?
>>7849549
Well now I just know that you're not going to get published because you're simply retarded.
>>7849554
Nice rebuttal, no need to address anything I said, just say vaguely that I'm retarded.
For Amazon e-publishing, do you guys submit your writing to an editor beforehand, or do you just trust yourself?
I'm worried I'll have missed some huge mistake and look like an absolute idiot.
>>7849561
Get an editor if you can. Everyone I know is illiterate, so I can only trust in myself.
Most people will think you look like an idiot either way, so better get used to it.
>>7849108
I am a interesting in writing so I picked up a book on how to do certain things that don't make people cringe like dialogue and stuff.
I am gonna start writing soon, I just feel a little hesitant because I just know it's probably gonna be cringe. I want to write weird alternate reality fiction.
>>7849108
I once met a poet/editor at a bar and we talked drunkenly for a few hours and I wrote some lines down on a piece of paper and he told me he liked it and to send him my stuff and gave me his email and number.
Of course I never contacted him, and that is as far as my writing career ever progressed.
>>7849198
I like that, I like that.
getting published this year.
but I feel kinda numb about it, because I don't really think it's going to help me achieve anything, especially not financially. But hey, at least I'll be published, right.
>>7849108
Never written anything. I would like to one day though.
Started my first novel a couple days ago
I'm ready to embrace my destiny as a failed writer. Besides writing, I'll live a back up life for when everything fails, and it will.
>>7849933
>previous writing credits barely count for anything
That's true, most agents i read about all say something along the lines of, "Note any GOOD writing credits you have,"
Like New Yorker, Harpers, etc, that would be a good writing credit. Jam-man's university press, inc, yeah.....don't even bother listing that. Shit like that however, is what most people list as a writing credit, so that's why a lot of agents don't put much credit in credits anymore.
Actually, most good agents aren't really even open to queries, they only accept stuff from established writers who they personally know and trust.
Kind of puts aspiring writers in a pretty bad position, but keep in mind the system works just fine from the perspective of the agents and writers who are profiting from it and not really welcome to any change in the system.
>>7849561
I dunno, you tell me.
>>7850062
>That's true
>Actually, most good agents aren't really even open to queries, they only accept stuff from established writers who they personally know and trust.
Are you high?
>>7849933
>there's probably something wrong with them
There actually was for most of the time I queried. I finally got some help/advice from some agented writer friends on Twitter and revamped it.
We'll see it if makes any difference.
>>7850149
What was wrong with yours, specifically?
>>7850157
The first main thing is that I had a link to a short story featuring the same character in a different adventure. It's a historical fantasy novel, and I've also written a number of short stories featuring the main character. I thought linking to one of the stories that had been published would be a good idea, but apparently outside links in query letters a big no-no, so that was taken out.
The second, and far more important, problem was that I wasn't talking about what my character wanted and the obstacles in her way. The way my friends put it is that every query needs to be able to fill in the blanks of this sentence:
This is the story of _______, who wants more than anything in the world to ________, but can't because ____________.
It make a lot of sense, since if you can fill that sentence in you've described your character's primary motivation and the primary obstacle to it. My query wasn't doing that, so I rewrote it to describe better what my character wanted and what stood in her way.
>>7850177
That seems really awful, the fact that they only consider the sort of formulaic drivel that can be summed up in such a banal way, I mean. Literature is officially dead.
>>7850225
That's how it's always been, though. Ever since its invention, literature has always had an element of banality to it. Most writers write to play to the crowds.
>>7850229
Most writers have always been shit though. Yes, even most published writers.
>>7850177
>I had a link to a short story featuring the same character in a different adventure.
jesus christ
that is like instant rejection for agents
like you're actually fucking retarded
>>7850225
>the fact that they only consider the sort of formulaic drivel
do you guys actually do any fucking research before querying?
the first anon is wrong; it doesn't have to be in that format (although it does have the premise and obstacle, which is good)
you really just need a hook, a synopsis (broadly covering characters, themes, etc.), bio
your query letter should be tailored to the agent and highlight that you've done your research (ie who they've represented in the past, the genres they're interested in, etc. etc.)
the goal of the query letter is to pique the agent's interest enough that they ask for the first X pages
read miss snark's blog--there's also some agent on /r/writing who critiques query letters and he has good advice
>>7850062
>most good agents aren't really even open to queries, they only accept stuff from established writers
ok /lit/ doesn't know jack shit
>>7849118
From agents or what?
>>7849212
Where did you get stuff published?
>>7850274
One on a website
The other in a magazine I'd prefer not to talk about
>>7850277
Were they big or small ones?
I have 50k words written of a first draft of a novel that is probably complete shit.
Maybe I'll get lucky though, who knows?
>>7850250
I know what the basic elements of a query are, you're missing the point. The idea is that he was supposedly getting advice from people who got agents so they'd know specifics beyond the basics.
>>7850280
Fairly small in both cases. I also wasn't paid for either of them.
I'm currently trying to climb the ladder, as it were. I'm hoping to start getting my fiction published in slightly more prestigious venues, and then I'll work up from there. Maybe if I reach high enough I can get my novel published without having to cold query agents, which I seem to be bad at.
Authors who make their living off of their books are almost universally terrible... get a real job
>>7849818
You'll only get better the more you write.
But writing really is the quickest way to improve at writing.
So maybe reading all these books about writing will push you slightly ahead of the median of beginner writers... but just writing garbage will do you more good.
I don't know why people are afraid of being shitty, there's always room for improvement if that's what your going for.
The fear of failure is strong, or observing yourself as less articulate than you imagined.
Still... just write, you'll have to come to grips with your writing ability if you ever want to improve, and there is always improvement to be made.
authors: how the FUCK do you kick yourself in the ass and just write? I'm losing all hope at this point
>>7850377
I time myself.
Even if I write ten words, even if it's all shit, I do my work day in day out.
The shittiness goes in the editing. (Part of it, at least.)
>>7849239
>>7849469
>>7849554
What the fuck? What the actual fuck? Why are you complaining about misogyny on 4chan? Why the hell are these people coming to my board? Go back to wherever you came from you cunt. You and your kind are ruining this board.
>>7850377
Make a time and place for it. Try to create a space as free of distractions as possible.
>tfw several short stories out for submission
>tfw many of them are 'In Progress' on the submissions managers
>tfw the longer it goes without a response the more I start to hope
Why do I do this to myself, /lit/? I'm just going to get rejected in the end.
>>7849108
>tfw I got a call from an agent the other day
>I couldn't pick it up
>stood in front of the phone not wanting to go...
>go start writing a new novel
I'm gonna die in total obscurity.
>>7850136
Nope. Look it up. Most of the big names in agents say something along the lines of "While we are open to queries, we sign most of our writers through referrals," on their website somewhere. Which means yeah, technically they accept queries as it'd look bad if they didn't, but they're not taking any chances on unknowns, they stick with known, profitable writers.
Wait till you start reading shit about them wanting writers with, "Their own strong platform."
Which basically means, they'd really like it if they can find a writer who already has a built in audience, is capable of promoting it themselves, and they literally have to do none of the work, and collect 80% of the money.
>>7850377
There's usually a shame spiral of alcohol, depression, often firearms involved for me. It basically ends with myself becoming so disgusted that I'm not writing that I just physically can't stand myself me anymore, and force myself to sit down and write.
Works somewhat I guess, I'm on my third novel.
>>7850491
sounds like me exactly. thanks anon
How have you guys attempted a career in writing?
Do you guys enter writing competitions? Have you guys offered to edit for publishers? Have you guys even attempted some work for publishing houses?
Have you guys made any professional connections? Have you been on a creative writing course at a (preferably good) university (although this might not be necessary, it would help)? Do you guys self-promote and self-publish (don't ignore Amazon publishing, no matter how much trash is on there - I'm not keen on the book myself, but The Martian was originally published on a blog, then Amazon, and is now one of the biggest sellers)?
Do you guys diversify? Do you only want to write paperbacks or are you willing to write screenplays, poems, songs, illustrate, etc? Are you guys in a creative writing/book club? Have you tried getting the club to offer you feedback on your writing?
I'm genuinely curious, anons. I wish you people the best in your endeavours, but you need to do as much as you can to work within a creative industry because, as I'm sure many of you already know, it's not easy.
As long as you're a grafter - you keep at what you do - and as long as you improve upon what you do, accepting any feedback you can get (whether it's from book clubs/writing clubs/classes/publishers/agents/etc), someone will take notice eventually.
Here's genuine advice: nobody wants to read a first draft.
Nobody wants to see typos of grammatical errors, no matter how minuscule it may seem.
Nobody wants a writer that is not at least known within some circles - they want somebody who has some written work available publicly, even if it only has a few readers.
Nobody wants to hire anybody if you have anything incriminating on your personal social media.
>>7850533
>social media
What if you have no social media presence?
>>7850538
Start establishing yourself professionally on social media, anon. Seriously. It might seem like beating a dead horse, but it helps build an online professional presence and it should be the first thing that appears when publishers, editors or agents google your name. You will also likely slowly build an audience if you keep updating things frequently.
>>7850520
wow what a bunch of horseshit
>want to write insane philosophy no one will care about
>decide to go into academia
>get paid to write the slightly less insane stuff
>publish the more insane stuff commercially or for free, and don't have to care if it doesn't sell
>>7850563
You're right, writers get published by doing nothing at all.
>>7850593
it's obvious you know nothing about the industry
>offer to edit for publishers
turbokek.mobi
>>7850479
I have actually heard something similar. Not for all agents, certainly, but for some of the big ones.
The trouble is how do you get a writer to read your work? It almost seems like it would be easier than all the trouble of querying, if you could just make the right connection.
>>7850789
That's exactly what a lot of writers recommend. Most say the most effective way to land an agent is to go to a writer's conference and try to get buddy buddy with an agent. Even if they don't want to work with you, they'll know someone who will.
That probably only works with people who aren't socially retarded and have the personality of a poison toad, however. So I don't think it'd work great for me.
>>7850837
Maybe you should get gud at socializing then, faggot. Read some PG Wodehouse and some PJ O'Rourke and learn how to converse with human beings.
>>7850837
I can chat someone up just fine, but the idea of going to some conference, one you just know will be chock full of the worst kinds of pseuds and middle aged women who cry into their tea on a regular basis for the sole purpose of schmoozing it up with agents or editors, who'd only be pretending to care about what I had to say because they had to for the day, just to have a better shot at this shit feels so fucking disgusting, whorish even.
>>7852485
I can be personable and chat it up with people also, but that's a totally different thing from kissing ass and getting chummy with agents and publishing professionals. Hell, one reason why I never made it anywhere in the working world is I'm terrible at that shit. "Politics," they call it elsewhere.
Plus, you know you also have to pay money and travel to these goddamn things.
>>7852508
Yeah, it's just sickening on every level.
Why not just gradually engage with them on Twitter?
You all do have Twitters, right?
>>7850377
Patience. Walk away from the work. Write other stuff if possible. Go on your day to day life until things come to you naturally. Forcing something that isn't there yet just makes you write crappy material.
>>7852485
>>7852508
the point of going is to find someone like-minded who will be a champion for your work. there's no need to suck butt for an hour trying to wheedle your way in. if you know you've done good work and can talk about it coherently (brush up on how to pitch), they will let you know immediately if there's interest or not. it's on you to do your homework to know who's going to be there and what they've sold, if it's anything close to what you've written.
>>7852823
You know the registration fees for these things can run up to like $1000+ a pop without even taking travel expenses into account, right? It's practically extortion. And for what? The "opportunity" to debase yourself?
Thanks but no fucking thanks.
>>7852691
I try to engage with people on Twitter, but unfortunately no one wants to engage with me on Twitter.
>>7852691
Does this count?
>>7849108
It's going well. I'm not published yet, but I think I'm on the way.
This thread is very negative and forceful. I think there are more options to publishing assuming you've written something good.
Good luck, anon! Keep writing and researching!
>>7853261
it's an opportunity to get published but ok. good luck with your self publishing. it is a viable route but you're still going to need to pitch yourself and your novel in online spaces.
>>7853430
that seal looked comfy. If they were sentient I bet they would just read books all day
>>7853430
ice cold
>>7850412
>what the actual fuck
you sound like one of them
>>7850294
i wanted to b a lawyer after i saw that lawyer thread that is until i saw that other lawyer thread
>>7850125
99 cents for 10 pages? i wouldnt even pay big dave that much. thats a whole mcchicken for gods sake!
>>7849947
details? link 2 book?
>>7854348
Let's be honest here, you wouldn't buy any self-published book.
>>7849108
I don't write. Nobody's gonna read that shit.
>>7849465
iktf
Oh, it's going great! Just fantastic! Never been better! Everything I expected it to be and more!;_;
