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You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature
You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature
Is there a term for the following example:
A young person (A) holds right-wing opinions. Because they are in the minority (most young people are left-wing), it is automatically assumed they are independent and intelligent and therefore more stock is put into what they say. Alternatively, another young person (B) holds left-wing opinions. Because most young people are left-wing, it is assumed that person B has mindlessly absorbed their beliefs from their surroundings and have exercised little independence, even though there's no way of knowing this for sure.
I only used that particular example because it's one I've come across. The idea I'm looking for isn't one strictly related to politics.
>>7816251
Probably not it; but it feels a bit like no true Scotsman
>>7816251
illogicism? reverse herd mentality?
It's just assumed independent thinking and conformity. You can't say much else about these cases unless you know about the actual cases so the question is really about the people observing the case.
When writing fiction how do you avoid starting sentences with pronouns?
>>7816293
>what subject area would this be associated with? Sociology? If so, what particular sub-field?
Being edgy and underage? Or finding a term for being edgy and underage? The first is probably universal. And as a sociologist myself, I'd rather leave the latter to journalism.
>>7817256
Realizing your audience is smarter than you give them credit for. Just write the same sentence and avoid the pronoun.
>>7816258
how the fuck...? ky
OP, you should also kill yourself because you're a piece of shit. you want a "name" for this so you can throw that name in someone's face whenever they try to use that reasoning against you. how pathetic.
holy shit you actually think you're independent? you think you're the black swan? pathetic worm.
>>7817286
But that's my question. How do you make the sentence be correct while avoiding or omitting the proonoun?
>>7817297
Post an example
>>7817295
...? I have no intention of "using" it, I don't even know how I could do that given I don't fit into either of the examples I gave. I just picked it because it's a flawed assumption I make myself and I want to know more about it.
How do you guys read Pynchon?
Do you read it through in as few sittings as possible the first time without stopping (understanding very little), and then go back and work at it page by page, or do you just skip the first step?
>>7817497
This is the concentration of pronouns in a paragraph that I don't want.
>James was appalling, in that rough way boys of his age were, and was terribly exciting. Whenever we went down to the Bull for Cokes, she'd invite him with, and he'd sit at the edge of a booth full with giggling girls too young for him to both talk to and remain cool. We'd celebrate his team's victories in football, standing on the edge of the field, screaming his name bloody, and afterwards, each of us save Kassie would shyly touch his red and black striped sleeve, and ask him questions about how he felt. Or whatever. She'd barely hide her disgust when he'd trudge off the pitch, one fist in the air, to sit with us and discuss his strategy. But then he'd grab her and charge about the field with her on his shoulders, even in the pouring rain, while she pounded at his back screaming that she'd get her clothes filthy. When I talked to him, I still stared at my hands and toyed with my fingers, speaking slightly higher than I usually did, and asked him questions so that he'd do all the talking.
![chicken-wing[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/hJS0hbV.jpg "chicken-wing[1].jpg")
>>7817256
>>7817297
>>7819205
Not the other guy, but...
1. You could move your adverbials to the front of the sentence:
>In that rough way boys of his age were, James was appalling, and was terribly exciting.
>Standing on the edge of the field, we'd celebrate his team's victories in football...
>When he'd trudge off the pitch, she'd barely hide her disgust
2. You could use the passive voice:
>Appalling was what James was, in that rough way...
>His team's victories in football was what we'd celebrate, standing on the edge...
>Her disgust could barely be hidden when he'd trudge off the pitch,...
(These sound pretty shit but you get the idea)
Does Finnegans Wake make any references to Ulysses?
>>7819271
Thanks!
![creative-writing-banner[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/FZPRWmz.jpg "creative-writing-banner[1].jpg")
I want to learn creative writing. What's the best free online course I can take? Are there any Youtube lecture series from Harvard or similar?
>>7819326
A course can help, but first and foremost you should read. Read a dozen books by a dozen authors from different times and backgrounds. Find what you like best in them. Write a story imitating their styles. Read, and read more. Read from genres you're unfamiliar with and from times and places you don't normally read from.
A basic starting list would include the Illiad, Dubliners by Joyce, stories by Maupassant and Baudelaire, parts but not all of the Bible, Dostoi or Tolstoy, Chekov or Ibsen, Mishima or Oe. And Hemingway, O'Connor, Klima, Woolf. One book by all of those people short stories or otherwise, should get you on your way. Once you're actually writing a story, go to a workshop with other writers and read their work, and receive feedback.
![65356141[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/bomX1fU.jpg "65356141[1].jpg")
>>7819365
Thanks.
>First read
Sure, but I'd also like to do something productive at the same time, you know?
>Find a workshop
That's such a high bar of entry. Aren't there more casual ways of getting into it? Just some low-effort intro video that'll get me started?
>>7819396
No, because you need someone competent in a very small environment (1 teacher, 5 students, something like that) to judge your work.
>more casual ways
Shit son, it's almost like you don't want to be doing this.
Any book with similar prose of picture related?
>>7819271
OP, whatever you do, don't follow the passive voice suggestion. It's unnatural, looks terrible, is terrible. Say those lines out loud. Yeah. It's bad.
Always write in active voice.
>>7819412
His other 2 books
>>7816251
It's an interesting concept, OP. Feels like there should be a word or apercu for it. Best I could find was a recent article talking about "hip heterodoxy" in contradistinction to herd mentality.
The people rebuking you were fucking retards who didn't understand the idea.
Best translation of the Aeneid?
Where's a good place to start with Delilo? I read Point Omega a while ago and it was 2artsy4me, but I'm ready to give him another shot.
>>7819598
I'd be interested to know this as well.
What's going on here? Is this trustworthy?
>>7819749
Inb4 some /lit/izen sees this screenshot and buys it before you
Gib me good stories about male friendship
What's a good online resource for learning grammar? My knowledge of things like proper punctuation and terms like pronoun, adverb etc. is pretty shocking.
How do I learn to analyse literature? Whenever I look into literary theory all I find is bullshit like post colonial theory and marxist/feminist criticism of X Western canon work. I want to actually learn to talk about the quality of the prose and the message conveyed, not just bitch about it failing to pander to my worldview or projecting ideology onto it because le death of authorial intent.
What do?
>>7819994
google OCW yale introduction to theory of literature
everything deconstruction and post-deconstruction is what you wnat to avoid, that's around the time it went completely, irredeemably into being a major for stupid fucking women who don't know anything to read 20 books and spend the rest of their lives whinging about them using a memorised jargon lexicon
go get some old clunky reader that gives you an overview of 20th century literary criticism. new critics, northrop frye, reader-response, new historicism, marxist critique. all interesting stuff. i used to have a nice edition of coleridge's rime of the ancient mariner that had an intro few chapters describing the major schools of 20th c. lit critique, and in 100 pages it told you everything you needed to know to get started, just as an intro to a fucking rime of the ancient mariner.
just ignore deconstruction and post-deconstruction literature departments. i'm not sayin they're totally bad but it's the ERA OF WOMEN, which is whjy everything becomes an unserious soup of who gives a fuck and they start inviting tons of non-whites who have political agendas and asspain but no intelligence or ideas
"i study post-colonialism" might as well translate to
>i somehow tricked someone into paynig me to tweet about my feelings
Anyone got a chart for starting with poetry?
>>7819749
Did you check the shipping cost?
>>7820067
Shakespearean and Plutarchan sonnets, Beaudelaire, Rimbaud and Basho are good introductory poets.
>>7820067
poetry is hard because you basically have to relearn how to read. the theory and history is much more important than it is for novels. a basic example would be recognizing sonnet format. if a poem is 14 lines, even if it isn't explicitly about love, you can assume the author is incorporating some play on the idea of love. first I would start with learning to recite poetry, since it seems intuitive, but as an english major I still hear people pause at the end of lines without punctuation etc.
>>7820178
>baudelaire, rimbaud
don't bother unless you can read french
>>7820067
I'm getting into poetry myself. Most of /lit/ says to start with English poetry, but I'm having a lot of fun reading translations of Greek/Latin classics. Particularly Ovid
>>7820069
yes $4
>>7820067
Start with alt lit
>>7820235
Which Kierkegaard should I read first? Fear and Trembling, right?
Another related question: what other authors will help me redeem myself from a heathen past to become a Knight of Faith? I want to come back to Christianity.
>>7820264
Read other philosophers before Kierkegaard.
Also read Tao Lin. He helps.
>>7820222
it's not that big of a deal, but just recognize that you're reading the poetry of the translator, not the original author.
>>7820212
How are you meant to read poetry? If you don't pause slightly at the end of lines aren't you basically just reading prose that happens to be written with line gaps? (genuinely asking - I'm clueless)
>>7820278
Like who, besides Tao Lin
>>7820284
more or less yes. line and stanza breaks are used mainly as visual, rhythmic, and thematic separators. that being said, you are meant to pause very slightly if a sentence continues through a stanza break without punctuation. that's not to say that they don't have anything to do with rhythm, because in a rhyming poem the line breaks will determine how often—in terms of syllables—a rhyme occurs, but pauses are signified with punctuation. in poems without punctuation, thematic context or personal interpretation decides where, if any, pauses occur.
i have 20 bucks to use one books, is start with the greeks just a meme or will it help me understand other books/references. there are 2 infor graphs and i dont know which one is the latest or best one to follow.
>>7820379
it's a nice foundation but not necessary. I wouldn't put so much work into it as some people seem to believe is needed. for sure read the myths, odyssey and iliad. the rest of the stuff you can go into if you're genuinely interested. definitely read the histories though, just because it's awesome.
>>7820379
You should read the Iliad because it is fantastic, and the Odyssey is also good, and much more involved in explicit literary reference. The Rieu translations are good and easy to find, I would avoid Fagles or anyone else who didn't directly translate but not worry about reading in prose or verse.
Lysistrata and The Clouds are riotously funny and short. Plato is good but niche, don't jump into Republic, read the apology online (I like W.D. Rouse because he includes the phrase 'rich in sky-lore').
Hesiod is short, but not terribly entertaining. Herodotus and Thucydides are hard work but rewarding, you should read Thucydides if you like political philosophy. Xenophon's Anabasis is a really fun adventure story with enjoyable insight into the personality of the author (cf. Hesiod for probably the exact opposite of Xenophon's disposition) the kind of things you get from ww2 accounts of fighting on far flung fronts. The tragedies are good, but again take hard work, honestly you might be best off watching a performance or something if you're of middling keeness.
The first four (with perhaps the exception of the Odyssey, which gets repetitious and drags at points) you can read quickly because you'll really like reading them. As to the need to read around them: just read the introductions, maybe after you've read the text and talk to people about shit.
Oh and you might want to burn the Iliad when you're reading the catalogue of ships, but it's over soon enough and people's livers start falling out.
Just read what makes you happy.
>>7820406
>for sure read the myths
in what book will I find the myths collected?
what are some good websites to buy second hand books at a good price? i usually go to amazon but are there other?
>>7820697
thriftbooks is cool. I like the 4 books for 12 dollars thing they have for certain books.
How to deal with the fact that everything is pointless?
I find myself thinking about shit all day, doing shit all day, even if its important shit. Lately I just can't take it anymore.
>>7821360
>How to deal with the fact that everything is pointless?
Cheap wine and cheaper women.
Is there a name for literature that is based around a non-fiction style/structure but is completely fictional?
Like Nazi Literature in the Americas by Bolano
>>7821360
>How to deal with the fact that everything is pointless?
Wenches and mead.
>>7821360
>How to deal with the fact that everything is pointless?
Booze and bitches.
>>7821360
>How to deal with the fact that everything is pointless?
Liquor and ladies.
>>7821425
stop posting, retard
>>7821425
Pot & penis, doobie and dick, smoke & suck, weed & wanking, Js and jacking-off.
>>7821430
what is wrong with you m8
Whats a good edition of Paradise Lost? Is the Penguin Classic edition good? Does it fuck around with the text by adding parentheses like I've heard another edition has? Are the notes footnotes?
In Crime and Punishment, what is meant by the question of "horns" in regards to marriage when Luzhin and Andrey are arguing. I understood the rest of the chapter, but I feel like I missed something about "horns".
How is the prose in Cloud Atlas? Anything wrong with reading a translation of it? German.
>>7822951
it's ok, but nothing that a decent translation couldn't capture. it's not joyce or anything
one section is pretty screwy, but just so long as its rendered in a screwy way in whichever language it'll be fine
>>7822951
And btw, I saw the film, it was terrible, is the original substantially better?
>>7822977
It just came out this way because of my sick english skills, sorry. Anyway, wanted to know if the book is any good.
had my library order IJ for me, need some fresh onions on some stuff I found that I might or might not check out next time I go in
Wolfe - You Can't Go Home Again
Mitchell - The Thousand Autumns of Jacob de Zoet
Borges - The Book of Sand (only Borges they have and I don't wanna make them order something again)
Maugham - Of Human Bondage
>>7821360
see a therapist
drink alcohol
read the Holy Bible
in that order
What's the best English translation of The Iliad and The Odyssey and why?
I haven't read a book in years.
My attention span is broken due to 4chan etc.
I used to read quite a lot of philsophy and even had a Philosophy interview at Oxford for an undergraduate course.
Please recommend an easy way in. I'll try the Greeks of course, after I fix my brain.
Please don't troll guys
>>7825106
start with the stirner (^:
Been thinking of reading Underworld next but I now feel like I'd prefer something warm and comfy. Would you say Underworld fits the bill or not?
>>7821360
Discover mysticism
Nothing feels as good as mysticism. It's like a benign form of insanity where you're secretly sure that you are a magical psycho-naut who exists to fuck the galaxy.
>really in love with philosophy
>read through several meditations some years ago like a scrub
>today, come back armed with knowledge of logic
>take a lot of notes, make sure not to ignore words I do not completely understand
>rephrase and take notes
Yet I feel empty inside. Why does it take me so much additional effort to understand him. I imagine some hardcore philosophers having no trouble identifying his exact ideas very rapidly. Am I not going to make it?
I refuse to give up, but can my lesser brain be helped with?
>>7816251
The first term that I made in my head was cultural contrarianism, or something along those lines. It's not an actual term though, just what I personally think describes it.
>>7825988
What's your iq, verbal in particular?
I'll be brutally honest for you if you like, but I'm guessing you're smarter than you think. You might have imposter's syndrome distorting your self-image.
>>7827643
>What's your iq, verbal in particular?
Not the guy you're replying too.
Why do people ask this?
Where was everyone given an IQ test?
>>7827666
You're right, it's unrealistic. It's the best predictor of ability and outcomes, which makes it a shame it isn't effectively emploved by the education system.
>>7827716
>emploved
I think you meant employed... But I prefer emploved. I like you.
>>7823844
called them and ordered Autobiography of a Face as well, tell me if im shit or not
