I dont get it, f am. I like the writing but I just dont understand what this guy is going on about. I might have fucked up by choosing this as the first FN, but is there any text online that breaks it down? what should I have read before hand?
He is not a regular philosopher. The point of reading him is meditating his work.
>>7773284
that's a terrible answer. leave.
>>7773266
did you forget to start with the greeks, anon?
>>7773266
what you have to get about nietschze is that all of his methods are unfounded, theres no data to back it up, and his dick continues to be sucked by millions to this day, and if you dont "get it" then youre just not smart enough, believe me, I'm graduating in psychology, I have to deal with them every single day
it also doesnt help his ego is bigger than the wall of china
>>7773429
>needing data to back up philosophical theories
wut
Guess we better discount all metaphysics and half of the greatest philosophers
>starting with Zarathustra
probably got one of the shit translations too
>>7773266
He is talking about how mediocrity and dissimulation perpetuates itself through cultural institutions, guilt and the facade of virtue.
There are seriously beautiful episodes in the book and I do recommend you read it AFTER you know what Nietzsche is all about.
>>7773442
nice post. can you recommend something before you kill yourself by autoerotic asphyxiation?
>>7773449
I agree there are nice passages and chapters. But Zarathustra can sometimes sound like and idiot.
I AM SO GREAT HAHAH YOU ARE SHIT1!! LMAO
>virtues
genealogy is the only thing worth reading. the rest is just edgy trash.
>>7773442
you probably read kaufman unironically
>>7773461
It doesn't help that everyone in Zarathustra is a huge idiot.
There is literally a king who abandoned all his wealth and power to live in a cave and think he is virtuous for living like an animal.
Zarathustra beat the guy with a can and he deserved it.
>>7773466
That's basically just Diogenes isn't it?
>>7773266
>I might have fucked up by choosing this as the first FN
Yup. Don't try to rescue it, just put it down and come back later. Start with Twilight of the Idols or BGE/GM.
start with the birth of tragedy, just read his shit in order.
Seriously, though, have you read Greek philosophy, anon? Because you can't just jump into him without that out of the way.
>>7773429
>he's unironically an empiricist
>>7773429
>being an empiricist
>majoring in psychology
Unless you're a gestaltist you can't really talk for shit.
>>7773490
>Start with Twilight
get the fug out DD:
>>7773470
More of a satire of Jesus's early followers, but similar. He doesn't have the wit from Diogenes, the eternal NEET.
The character appeals to the ego of Zarathustra after he is exposed to be a fraud but fails miserably too.
>>7773429
>it also doesnt help his ego is bigger than the wall of china
>2016
>thinking this
>>7773266
I really enjoyed the read, read it in German, and I also enjoyed his philosophical views, might have been that something got lost in translation
>>7773501
I've only read The Republic, do I really have to go through the entire dead white toga fags to understand this?
>>7773284
>meditating his work
You haven't a bloody clue have you?
>Reading Nietzsche before Schopenhauer
>>7773633
holy shit this was beautiful, I seriously think the dude who painted the tunnel should be at documenta or the bienalle di veneza
>>7773266
God damn, look at the girth on that mustache, say what you will about the man but his stache was magnificent.
>>7773266
Do Gay Scince
>>7773266
Start with Twilight of the Idols, then BG&E.
>>7773429
>'m graduating in psychology
>if you dont "get it" then youre just not smart enough
fuckboy untermensch detected
His works are thought provoking, well written, and laugh-out-loud funny. He is extremely readable by philosophy standards (source: I majored in phil). Maybe stick to your pseudo experiments or Freudian analysis or whatever the hell it is that you find interesting.
>>7773514
Also, this. Come on man.
>>7773501
>start with the birth of tragedy
I don't think this is recommended anywhere near as much as it. The Birth is a text that will test whether or not you have the experience to understand the rest of Nietschze. If you read it and don't get what he's talking about, you are likely to misunderstand everything else he wrote. If it does speak to you, you may find that it illuminates a number of things that might otherwise have continued to bother your mind.
Starting with Zarathustra is a huge fuck up. You have to let Nietzsche destroy the foundations of your world in the Gay Science and his previous works before you can let him build you back up again
Is Beyond Good and Evil a good place to start with neetch?
>>7773935
No. In fact, that's the worst place desu.
>>7773938
Fuck, I ordered it yesterday. What's your reasoning?
>>7773454
Senpai if you're not reading either Hollingdale or the original German you might as well not bother. Nietzsche is beyond the abilities of pretty much every translator except him. Kaufman we have to put up with for Genealogy and Gay Science but apart from that he's awful.
>>7773437
Yep, if it can't be proven with measurable data then it is wrong!
>>7774431
no, but it might as well be treated in the same vein as religion or economics. with disdain.
>>7773633
jesus fucking christ humans are annoying.
guy who painted that should be ashamed. What an asshat.
It's fine to read it first & not understand it. Just read it quickly, then do some secondary reading. By then you should know where to start.
THEN FUCK OFF & SWTG
>>7774437
die
>>7774437
Kek, what a pleb.
>>7773266
Zarathustra embodied Nietzche's idea of Super-man, the next branch in human evolution, but it wasn't based on constant kindness and inclusion. The super-man he imagined was more of a solitary and egocentric being, hence al the emo-shit behind it.
>>7775232
also my favorite part that captures it.
>Now do I bid you lose me and find yourselves; and only when you have all denied me, will I return to you Truly, with other eyes, my brothers, shall I then seek my lost ones; with another love shall I then love you
>>7775247
I didn't believe it at first when someone on /a/ said Miura was basing part of Berserk on Nietzsche's writings, but now that I think about it this and a few other passages are pretty similar to that shit Griffith said about what he considers a friend.
>reading anything by Nietzsche besides Zarathustra
c'mon now. also read the Kauffman, or Clancy Martin if you can't find a Penguin edition
>>7777572
About half of the point of Zarathustra will probably fly over your head if you haven't read the at least the gay science and human, all too human prior to it.
Do not place too much trust in Kaufmann's interpretations. He worked hard to retcon Nietzsche into a philosopher that could be worked into the canon of philosophy. Nietzsche apocryphal by nature.
>>7773748
...He grew that mustache after he went insane from syphilis. Before then he had a trim boomerang 'stache.
>>7777767
Then the syphilis was worth it.
You have to give a massive shit -according to him- to even stand a chance.
This means, reading his works many times. Slowly. Sentence by sentence. He said he could pack into one sentence what others required a whole book for.
Part of me thinks this is half the lesson, you have to struggle through this shit and hold out for epiphanies and changes and obsess (effectively) over it all to get what he's getting at.
No one has the time/will/faith that it'll be worth it to actually go about that kind of project but of course he did because he wrote the shit and was that rare kind of guy despite being a fucking mess.
The other quote about his books being bait and the possibility that there are no fish rings true.
His vision of the ubermensch is retarded and he failed miserably attempting to live up to it.
In summary, accept that you and virtually no one else will really get on his level and that a wikipedia understanding is the best you're gonna get
>>7778723
>His vision of the ubermensch is retarded and he failed miserably attempting to live up to it
No he didn't because the ubermensch isn't something he tried to live up to, the ubermensch was essentially a prophecy.
>>7778723
Half of his 'mysteries' were just him trolling people who were looking too hard for someone to enlighten them. His philosophy is not too terribly complex at its heart, we just build a mountain of abstraction around it because it's what academics in the social 'sciences' do to justify their existence.
>>7778748
Exactly. The ubermensch was the next stage of man, a being which made men look like apes by comparison.
The overman is not a superior human, it is superior to humanity, it makes humanity look like a cruel mockery of an intelligent lifeform by comparison.
I actually once had someone argue to me that AI was the ubermensch and Nietzsche was the prophet of the singularity which made me kek a little.
>>7778723
Men is not supposed to become an ubermensch. Men is supposed to be a bridge to the ubermensch. If you didn't read the book, why do you come here and comment? is this bait?
>>7778764
Nah, I don't buy this. It's not complex in the sense you can boil it down to essentially Nietzsche wants human flourishing at all costs but you can do that with anything complex or not.
In terms of the depth, subversiveness and struggle to actually live out and by extension understand I think it is extremely complex and probably something which has to be lived in order to be understood, which again, no one can be fucked with which is why there is a ton of academic posturing and pussyfooting around it
>>7778794
>"THIS, incidentally, is almost the whole weakness of Nietzsche, whom some are representing as a bold and strong thinker. No one will deny that he was a poetical and suggestive thinker; but he was quite the reverse of strong. He was not at all bold. He never put his own meaning before himself in bald abstract words: as did Aristotle and Calvin, and even Karl Marx, the hard, fearless men of thought. Nietzsche always escaped a question by a physical metaphor, like a cheery minor poet. He said, "beyond good and evil," because he had not the courage to say, "more good than good and evil," or, "more evil than good and evil." Had he faced his thought without metaphors, he would have seen that it was nonsense. So, when he describes his hero, he does not dare to say, "the purer man," or "the happier man," or "the sadder man," for all these are ideas; and ideas are alarming. He says "the upper man," or "over man," a physical metaphor from acrobats or alpine climbers. Nietzsche is truly a very timid thinker. He does not really know in the least what sort of man he wants evolution to produce. And if he does not know, certainly the ordinary evolutionists, who talk about things being "higher," do not know either."
>>7778807
He's right in that Nietzsche didn't claim to know much of the nature of the ubermensch but he's wrong in that Nietzsche didn't say 'more good than good and evil' because that's retarded and missing the point. The ubermensch is beyond good and evil because he will redefine what is good and what is evil.
>>7778806
>essentially Nietzsche wants human flourishing at all costs
I'd say this is wrong, but 'human flourishing' is so vague as to be essentially meaningless, so I'm not sure I can.
>>7778807
That's a fucking retarded criticism, senpai.
>>7778807
>this
like
>>7778824
said, he had a vague idea of what the ubermensch is because he had the power of thought to destroy all the presuppositions and ignorant footing that those other philosophers didn't and he believed (with good reason) that laying out what the 'good' is like they did was folly.
How did whoever wrote that fuck up so badly?
>>7778827
what is a more accurate summation?
>starting with Nietzsche
Do teenagers really do this?
>>7778839
It's kind of a half-assed oversimplification, but: Nietzsche wants to protect the strong from the weak, or at least remind the strong to protect themselves from the weak.
>>7773266
>I don't get it
Alternate books for you
>f am
If it filters, stop using it, ya damn memer.
The man was a great thinker way ahead of the preconcepted notions of his time, but expressed himself like a dopey Donald Trump supporter on a drunken stupor.
Btw, i wonder how would a discussion between nietzche and ayn rand develop, particularly on the subject of the ubermensch.
>>7773442
>Redd Foxx
Nice
What's the best translation in your opinion?
>>7778839
If anything Nietzsche wanted human struggling at all costs.
>>7778929
>Ayyn Rand
>>7778929
It'd probably end pretty badly because she made a system of ethics she tried to get others to follow, and then topped it off by blatantly abusing it when it suited her. I doubt her ideas on the ubermensch would resemble his very much.
>>7778968
the internet
>>7773442
That one's Hollingdale, which is probably the best. Stylistically at least.
>>7778929
>Implying Trump isn't the Nietzschean choice expressed in a non-Nietzsche way
You have it the other way around
>>7778929
She would call him a mystic and he would pull out the same arguments he used against other metaphysical thinkers.
Rand is only superficially similar to Nietzsche, in practice what she's pushing is much more like modified Aristotelian metaphysics, veiled behind the pettiest materialism and called 'objectivism' which anyone who actually did a deep reading of Nietzsche would recognize as a joke.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6gV1MUSXMg
This is Rand talking about him.
>>7779033
When it comes to politics the Nietzschean choice is to stop giving a fuck about politics because mass politics are a pointless diversion for plebs.
Nietzsche was a stateless person for most of his adult life, but even if he wasn't he wouldn't have voted or supported political candidates.
>>7779033
Wat
Are you saying Trump is the ubermensch?
Mind blown.
is there any archive for this thread ? it's a fews weeks old but can't find anything. One of the best thread i read about N
>>7694398
>>7779957
lit/thread/7687729/ask-me-some-questions-about-nietzsche-faggots-ive#
