Lovecraft
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You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature
You are currently reading a thread in /lit/ - Literature
Is he any good? Is he overrated?
>>7699480
he's great and i really like he's writing.
>>7699480
>*******
>>7699480
he's okay. early stories are high school tier fanfic crap, others are good for pulp they are. I like his excessively florid and overwritten over-the-top descriptions, but some find them cringe
>moss and mould of abandonment
>mountainward bolts
>daemonic crescendoes of ululation
>down unlit and illimitable corridors of eldritch phantasy
>>7699522
cthulhu mythos are interesting because they seem coherent in a way they're mysterious, and not whored out like tolkien's mythology. some works like dreamquest are boring, but it works perfect in novella like mountains of madness
>>7699480
He has been the only writer to frighten me, so yes I am a fan. Most of my best papers are on the Lovecraft circled. I am a little sad he has before a meme.
>>7699522
Oy. I originally read that as.
>down unlit and illimitable corridors of eldritch pussy.
>>7699529
>cthulhu mythos
>not whored out
Come on now, it's gotten to the point where the extreme majority of derivative works aren't even remotely comparable.
>>7699628
Ugh. We were talking in class about how much the canon sucks, when realized I have my own personal Lovecraft canon.
I have a book filled with his stories. I read about half of it and now I'm all Lovecrafted out so I'm giving it a rest and coming back later. My favorite stories so far are "The Case of Charles Dexter Ward" and "The Colour Out of Space".
>>7699522
>excessively florid and overwritten over-the-top descriptions
This. There is a whole genre of early 20th century pulp pretty much dead to us except collections of Robert Howard and Lovecraft. And while some of the post-modern shitters and no-fun-allowed guys shit on him, you really have to enjoy his (mostly later) stories for the relics that they are.
He's a very entertaining to read and you should read everything you can get your hands on. Seriously the time and thought you have put into this you could have just read one of his shorter stories and decided for yourself.
>>7699899
Some of his earlier works are mediocre
>>7699916
His mediocrity has chunks of guys like you in its stool.
>>7699480
Racist cunt
>>7699981
low hanging fruit
>>7700021
Is that a metaphor for...? :^)
>>7699480
He's great and his writing is often imitated, very few managing what he achieved.
Worth reading his works, definitely. For a pulp writer, he was one of the best.
>>7699480
So you know how Tolkien is always spoken of as a shitty story teller, but an amazing world-builder?
HPL is a shitty story teller, but an amazing atmosphere creator.
His "Nyarlathotep" short story/prose poem is one of the scariest, most unsettling things I've ever read. His themes and atmosphere linger in your mind.
>>7699948
>how to spot the pleb
Are there any useful resources for collecting his works in print if you want shorter (300 or less pages) paperbacks with as little overlap as possible?
>>7700261
>niggers
lel
>>7700298
Penguin maybe? Getting a series of paperbacks with no overlap is a pain in the ass, unless it is all from one editor/ collection series. I would check out some of the online stores like amazon and Barnes and Noble.
>>7699522
lol all of those are great
I honestly can't get over how much of an autist he was.
I enjoy most of his work, but goddamn, the man lived off an inheritance and couldn't support his wife due to the fact he had no marketable skills, he spent 99% of his time in his house being terrified of what was outside.
I guess if it weren't for the autism he never would have been able to write about the topics he did. If he were alive today he'd probably shitpost here.
>>7699480
Nigger-man.
No; who cares.
>>7699522
Comments like these really make me despise this site. Why the fuck are people so draconian and so arrogant over one of the authors imprinted on the slate of important English writers?-- Especially on a fucking anime 4chan website. Are you serious? We're all fucking neckbeards memeing over DFW and the other shit, yet you've people like this who think they're literary critics who have spent years of their lives analyzing philological choices in olde English-- that's how arrogant you sound right now.
>>7702390
Some people just cant help but shitpost
guys have you actually read his letters?
It's proper proper racism, stuff like wishing a virus would wipe them off the face of the earth and feeling literally nauseated when looking at Black people. Not very nice in my opinion; why does everyone on lit/ pretend to be so racist and sexist, if you don't think any good books were written by black people or women (which they have been) doesn't mean they're all cunts?
anyway I'm trying to find a page I was on months ago with actual extracts...
>>7702488
Well, he wasn't wrong.
>>7702488
He said he felt disgusted by Indians.
I don't treat Indians any differently than I do whites, but they are completely repulsive to me, they make me feel sick to my stomach, that isn't really something you can control.
>>7702488
the dank memers here will just pretend their racism is defensible and somehow sensible, so dont expect much
>>7702513
Explain how it isn't sensible.
>>7702516
get off 4chan and finish your history homework
>>7702520
Not an argument.
>>7702513
racism is literally part of an optimal evolutionary strategy
>>7702523
This isnt debate class desu
>>7702488
Niggers are sub-human monsters across time and space and every culture that has ever encountered them knows and acts on this. Their eternal buttrage over being incompetent doesn't magically change it.
>>7702526
is that why europeans went around raping everyone they encountered
>>7702532
They didn't intend to have anything to do with the offspring m8, it was war booty.
It only takes a little thought to see why racism is dumb and outdated, but you have guys here who feel safe and protected under the /pol/ bubble. The result is that they'll spew shit all day and feel confident knowing some other retard out there agrees with them
>>7702544
>Chronological snobbery
>Hurr racism is dumb
>Still hasn't provided a logical argument
>>7702552
u mad fuckboy, i dont need to tell you how to think, pick up a history book
>>7702552
> "chronological snobbery"
> instead of a brain your skull it literally full of your mom's piss
> uber tard
>>7699948
The alchemist and breast in the cave for example. Some of his stuff feels like practice for later works, but that's unavoidable I imagine.
>>7702574
I do think, and I do know my history, and I personally see no issue with racism.
>>7702563
Having an interest in philosophy usually means having an exposure to a wide variety of view points.
There are many arguments against racism that are completely valid, but it doesn't seem like any of the anti-racists here have read them or have formulated their own.
>>7702591
When you interact with people of different races on a daily basis it dosent become something you need to think long and hard about. Everyone is their own person regardless of race, if anything you want to examine the culture instead of skin color. Racists tend to conflate the two.
Racism is a mere aspect of logical biological pragmatism. In order of importance: the self, the family, the race, humanity. Any other beliefs are intellectual masturbation.
>>7702563
>>7702563
You're either like 14 or just don't leave the house. All of black culture throughout all of history is worthless. All of their artists are inarticulate violent idiots. They have been determined as worthless by everyone who met them since recorded history. Egyptians are not and never have been black. They are useless and pretending they aren't is simply retarded.
Non of the verbose, deterministic rationalizations for this (that still implicitly state whites BTFO black without even trying on every level) actually solve the problem that niggers are parasitic, violent idiots. They just provide and alternative explanation that stunts any actual discussion of the issue with emotional bloviating. The core persons responsible for all of your worst hang-ups are Jews and shabbos goyim.
It only sounds crazy because you are a spoon-fed ignoramous who has been conditioned to ejaculate that response rather than think.
>>7702591
Ok here's mine. I've read very little philosophy, some Buddhism and some phenomenology but I'm basically a complete non-phil.
I reckon that generally Human suffering is bad, if there are any truths it's that things which result in happiness are good and things that result in unhappiness are bad. ah that's it I'm I believe in hedonic utilitarianism (again no expert) so seems to me racism makes people unhappy so it bad?
>>7702615
>All of black culture throughout all of history is worthless. All of their artists are inarticulate violent idiots.
Its one thing to be a cowardly racist but now you're just telling lies.
>>7702615
seems like the people who claim to not be racist are the people who live in white areas with other white people and only interacted with black maids or token affirmative action hires, just live in a black neighborhood for a while, you'll see racism makes a lot of sense
>>7702532
allow me to rephrase
racism is part of an optimal evolutionary strategy ~*~*!~!!!FOR ANY RACE!!!~!*~*~
it's not a statement about racial superiority (as long as we're anonymous) but honestly if you don't know anything about game theory it's not worthwhile for me to sit here and explain all this shit out to you, good luck to you with your inferior cuck-tier social strategies
>>7702605
I'm a Canadian, I interact with upper class Blacks, Muslims, Aboriginals, and Chinese, Hispanics people every day.
The only ones I enjoy the company of are the Chinese. Black people, in my own personal experience, are complete idiots, the same goes for Muslims.
I treat everyone with respect, but it is painfully obvious from my perspective that there are massive differences in race.
>>7702622
In ethnically homogeneous states there would be far less suffering caused by racism.
However, even in countries that are extremely homogeneous, such as Japan or China, people are still discriminated against based on their skin tone.
It isn't something that can be stopped.
>>7702628
Now you're just conflating race with culture, which is stupid.
>>7702614
yeah that's fucking stupid though isn't it because you don't act in accordance with that idea at all.
Always moaning at your parents to have more kids?
Please fuck my sister I want my family's genes to be as proliferate as possible
if people were biological pragmatists we'd all be up in arms about climate change.
People don't act in a rational pragmatic way, thomas gnash was wrong,
you are an autistic 16 yr old
>>7702633
>Climate change
>>7702630
>I treat everyone with respect
no you dont
>>7702633
people are rational within a relatively stable environment.
naturally we are unequipped to survive environmental fluctuations of sufficient violence
>>7702639
> lol this guy is right
>>7702633
You're presumtous, emotional and dumb, as you have been taught to be. Unlike your sad pathetic insults these qualities are self-evident in your retarded attempts at "thought" (regurgitating some bullshit, poorly)
>>7702630
I can easily say in my own experience there's hardly any difference in intelligence between races, its more of a matter of upbringing and personal traits.
>>7702631
ok live in a west indian neighborhood and see if it's any better, you're a lilly white faggot from the suburbs why don't u shut ur jizzhole
>>7702646
ad hominem
>>7702639
Thoughts =/= actions.
I can think whatever I like, it doesn't harm anyone.
>>7702650
>tfw live in an neighborhood with a mild amount of crime and have seen people die
>mfw you let 4chan memes tell you how to think
>>7702633
If you recognize that people don't act in a reasonable, pragmatic way, then how can you fault then for racism?
>>7702655
How you think influences your actions, this is basic shit.
>>7702651
ignore my argument
>>7702644
pussy coward fool
>>7702656
what do you feel about all this then?
>>7702662
Nigger faggot pussy idiot stupid
>>7702660
I don't tell niggers to go back to Africa, I don't tell spics they're obnoxious, and I don't tell Muslims they're barbaric.
I stay far away from them and really just wish they'd go back where they came from.
Absolutely nobody is being harmed by my actions.
>>7702658
because just because from a selfish gene point of view it can be shown that we're not all the super self interested gene vehicles we're supposed to be doesn't mean we should embrace all our irrationality. My thing is basically the only good and bad things are brain states, from a utilitarian point of view I want the max number of people to be having the max pleasure brain state (encompassing all forms) they can for the max time. racism doesn't seem to figure in that
>>7702669
did i hurt baby's fee fees?
how does it feel to be proven wrong on a pseudonymous balinese sheep-shearing messageboard, fool
>>7702662
it's not a fucking argument your absolute fucking incompetent spastic. You think you can define the irrationality or rationality of all human behaviour in a couple of sentences. it's drivel. there is no point in having this conversation
>>7702682
I was actually just mocking your getting mad and cursing.
>>7702663
Culture is the key factor here, not race. You change a mans thoughts and you change his actions. Race has next to nothing to do with it.
People indulge in racism mostly because its just what they were raised to think, and it makes them feel good by living vicariously through the actions of their ancestors. Even a person who has had bad experiences with members of another race can simply understand not all of them are like that, especially if they choose to place the focus on culture rather than skin color.
>>7702685
I curse dispassionately, bitch
>>7702682
that wasn't me, I'm going to bed; I'm left with the impression of you as a really stupid, unpleasant person and I suspect your quite young.
>>7702680
Im not sure what your getting at, but holding intellectual pleasure over genetic inheritance is purely opinion. Selfishness is not inherently bad, and it's biologically good in most circumstances.
>>7702684
That's not even what I was saying you fucking retarded fool, i know you think we're fighting right now because I'm using aggressive language and you're a blind-monkey-pleb without the awareness to see through emotional language but really, try to understand what I'm saying
>>7702689
yeah that seems pretty true
The people on this board are fuck tards
great thread
>>7702698
google the selfish gene, it's a book by richard dawkins
then look up thomas gnash, game theory and a game called fuck you buddy
>>7702674
>>7702674
If you kept your thoughts private this would be true, but you have posted your thoughts on the internet, which anyone can read. If at least one Muslim, Black, or Latino read that (and since this site runs on internet traffic, at least one most certainly has) and was offended by what they read, they would be emotionally hurt, even if slightly, and that would nullify what you're attempting to say.
>>7702689
Explain the huge discrepancies in IQ, as well as the differences in body composition and athletic performance please.
>>7702695
As intended, and anyone with taste observing our interaction will understand my highly advanced sense of humor, also as i intended :^)
>>7702708
I don't see preventing 'Emotional harm' to be more important than my right to free speech.
They can say whatever they like about me.
>>7702700
your not saying anything though mate; I don't think we're fighting, I think I'm on 4chan
>>7702689
according to ta-nehisi criticizing black culture is racism, so when you say you aren't racist you just don't like black culture, you my friend are racist too! but instead of beating around the bush like "muslims wouldn't be terrorists and wife beaters if they would just convert to christianity" or "black guys wouldn't be criminals and droppouts if they would convert to white culture" just admit, some races are poor at impulse control and long term planning.
>>7702707
The thing is that my ideology replicates itself, and yours is a random, disadvantageous mutation.
>>7702709
I already explained what comes with intelligence, since that ultimately boils down to how you think about the world and solve problems, which brings us back to culture.
The matters on body composition are just the results of environmental adaptation. Wondering what you're aiming for in bringing that up.
>>7702708
>offended
>emotionally hurt
jesus fucking christ this board is reddit
>waaah muh feelings
can't wait until Trump gets elected
>>7702719
>I don't think we're fighting
you're only saying this as a move in a moral-superiority-fight :^)
>>7702725
>just the results of environmental adaptation
Then isn't it possible that this adaptation also influenced their levels of intelligence and behavior?
>>7702721
I don't know this Ta-Nahesi, but I'm Black myself. Examining and criticizing culture is literally the only way it can even begin change. If he says that's racism, he's retarded.
Your "not beating around the bush" is just intellectual laziness.
>>7702725
so if black guys acted like white guys they wouldn't be so shit? is that what you're saying? so then the big question is: what's stopping black guys from acting like white guys? anyone can see acting like a white guy results in better life outcomes, so why don't they?
>>7702741
>I don't know this Ta-Nahesi, but I'm Black myself.
ooooh ok this whole thing was a ruse, good one buddy.
>>7702740
Environment influences thoughts and emotions, which brings us back to culture, but that culture is just one configuration of many possible ones. As evidenced by anywhere in the world where multiple groups of people existed in the same environment yet still managed to start killing each other.
>>7702718
I don't remember free speech being called into question earlier. But you're right, you can think and say what you want. You only made a slight mistake in saying your unvocalized thoughts do not harm anyone, and considering the nitpicking on what was otherwise clearly intended from context, I don't blame you.
>>7702733
no i'm not, ur a faggot
>>7702747
You're making the mistake of thinking "white culture" is ideal. It also implies a refusal to acknowledge that many different types of white people that exist in the world with their own cultures, its not helping you.
>>7702763
pretty much every white country has a better standard of living than any black country so take your pick matey
>>7702770
That takes us into a very involved conversation on economics and politics which I'm sure you really don't want to get into. So meme away famygdala.
Also, "quality of life" is extremely relative.
>>7702761
p r a i s e
>>7702770
>>7702770
By this kind of flimsy standard measuring, white countries should be imitating Africa's regional economic policies, considering its real GDP growth percentage-wise is higher than those of advanced economies. But the situation is more complex than that, isn't it? As I'm guessing you'd be willing to try to take apart...
>>7702779
>I'm sure you really don't want to get into.
i want to, go on
“I am naturally a Nordic — a chalk-white, bulky Teuton of the Scandinavian or North-German forests — a Viking berserk killer — a predatory rover of Hengist and Horsa — a conqueror of Celts and mongrels and founders of Empires — a son of the thunders and the arctic winds, and brother to the frosts and the auroras — a drinker of foemen's blood from new picked skulls — a friend of the mountain buzzards and feeder of seacoast vultures — a blond beast of eternal snows and frozen oceans — a prayer to Odin and Thor and Woden and Alfadur, the raucous shouter of Niffelheim — a comrade of the wolves, and rider of nightmares”
>>7699480
He's probably one of my favorite authors because of his diction and the atmosphere he creates. I can understand why some people wouldn't like his writing style, however I don't think he deserves the same amount of criticism that legitimately bad story-tellers like Tolkien do. I was bored out of my mind with LotR, but Howard's always kept me interested.
I don't really care much about his racism. He died almost 100 years ago and didn't kill anyone because of it so I don't think it matters much today. If you don't like his work then you don't like his work, but don't dislike it solely on a dead man's politics
Lovecraft threads are the Undertale of /lit/
He is still alive and now he studies Biology
>>7702779
>I'm sure you really don't want to get into
muh slavery muh colonialism muh Jared Diamond muh blah blah blah.
Still doesnt explain IQ differences, standardized test differences, test differences in adopted children of color, or for that matter asian superiority in all of the above. In fact, Indochinese and Chinese and Vietnamese test scores are through the roof, and their culture was buttfucked for a whole generation.
the people who bring up racism in every Lovecraft discussion need to be systematically removed from the population
>>7699480
Some of his stories are crap, some of them are fairly okay, and some other are great.
His poetry (including prose poetry) is the best part of his work, imho, especially "Fungi from Yuggoth". I have yet to find anything as evocative as some of his poems.
>>7703814
Is this guy from Spain? I think I'm in his class.
>>7702390
>only REAL critics are allowed to have opinions!
Fanboy detected
>>7703871
Argentina, but I also know some other people that look alike. Some common phenotypics I guess, like all the people that is similar to mick jagger
>>7700128
I completely agree. The last paragraph in particular is demolishing.
His prose poem " Azathoth", on the other hand, is one of the most beautiful and light-hearted things he wrote.
Apparently they're both based on dreams he had.
>>7702390
Dude calm down. Lovecrafts atmosphere is great but he is over the top. Get over it.
>>7699480
Read him, you won't regret it.
Just don't start with his early stories, they are rather unequal.
>The professor had been stricken whilst returning from the Newport boat; falling suddenly, as witnesses said, after having been jostled by a nautical-looking negro who had come from one of the queer dark courts on the precipitous hillside which formed a short cut from the waterfront to the deceased’s home in Williams Street.
>>7703729
>mfw looking this shit up
Its a pretty nice quote, but for fuck's sake, he was a NEET with social anxiety.
>>7699480
>genre fiction
What do you think?
>>7702390
>Certain people are beyond criticism
'no'
>>7699480
He's "too horrible to describe!!!"
>>7699480
I've read the majority of his stories, and I found him to be too "pulpy" I guess, like your average, 1950's sci-fi schlock before it was popular.
Don't get me wrong though, I love the whole "cosmic terror" sort of thing, with predatory intelligences lurking on the fringes fucking with mere human minds. I just don't like the Cthulu brand if you catch my drift.
I don't care for any of the authors that deal directly with Lovecraft's universe, but I do find that the cosmic horror formula has led to some pretty good, unique writers.
Laird Barron and his "predatory cosmos" springs to mind. He's easily my favorite and he has a great flair for the obscene/grotesque insanity inherent in this sort of medium.
He keeps me wanting to learn more about "The Children of Old Leech" and he's been particularly good at cucking me on this aspect, he only ever gives the slightest glimpses etc.
TL:DR: Lovecraft may be the primary influence to the cosmic horror genre, but he's nowhere near the best.
>>7704511
>nautical-looking negro
What did he mean by this?
>>7699981
But enough about your mom...
>>7705025
Aquaman in blackface.
>>7700049
pleb
The Music of Erich Zann is one of my favourite short stories. Lovecraft is a pretty good writer, I just wish he would of written longer stories.
>>7699480
He was good for his time. Now, not so much.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IukTiqAqVBM
Why do I get the feeling this is exactly what Lovecraft was like on a daily basis? Like to interact with.
>>7707224
Read a Lovecraft biography. Lovecraft had a higher pitched voice, and although awkward socially, had good form in speech, being of the genuine aristocratic class.
>>7703916
I thought Azathoth was unfinished, so I haven't gotten to reading it to avoid an abrupt ending. Then again if it's dreamily abstract, that won't matter. Is it worth reading (conclusively)?
>>7707283
It does have an abrupt ending, but it works. And yeah, it's worth reading, after all it's just a few paragraphs long.
http://www.hplovecraft.com/writings/texts/fiction/az.aspx
>>7707332
If I hadn't known that Lovecraft didn't finish Azathoth, I would have assumed it was a complete work. It's essentially a complete episode. Thank you, I wouldn't have read it for another few years without your assistance.
Thanks to him I now refer to my ex as "the black Abyss of unfathomable and unthinkable madness".
Nigga either spammed adjectives like no tomorrow or just copped out by saying something couldn't be described.
Great atmosphere, decent ideas, terrible fucking prose, like the purplest prose to ever purple.
>>7707364
No problem, I hope you like it.
