Why did the Greeks revere assholes like Odysseus?
They appreciated men of intent, and with flaws. There wasn't a single Greek hero besides maybe Theseus that didn't piss the Gods off in some way.
if you were fighting and winning, to the Greeks, great. If you were losing and dying, just as good. If you're sitting at home doing nothing, well, how many Greek heros did that?
>>7521822
>assholes like Odysseus
They didn't have 3000 years of ideology weighing them down.
>you'll never plunder maidens, pillage palaces and boast on you boat
>no mixing wine in the crater
>no sacrificing oxen for a safe passage on the water
>no fucking every king's daughter on the coast of the Mediterranean
>ever
>>7521849
/thread
Why did the Greeks worship gods that actively disliked them, and who occasionally committed mass murder and rape against them?
Ever read any Greek drama featuring Odysseus? Only sort of positive portrayal I can think of is Ajax, and even in that Odysseus is frank about being selfish rather than magnanimous.
>>7521890
Greeks were friendzoned by their gods
In the play "Philoctetes" Odysseus travels to Lemnos to convince Philoctetes to give him the bow of Achilles and to come with him to fight in Troy. Philoctetes has no interest in going and he hates Odysseus' guts. So he refuses until the god version of Heracles comes down from Olympus and convinces him to go.
The best part is that its implied that "Heracles" in his play is just Odysseus in disguise! The absolute madman!
http://www2.open.ac.uk/ClassicalStudies/GreekPlays/Conf99/Okell.htm
>>7521853
>no sacrificing oxen
I was amazed at how many fucking cows/bulls they sacrificed.
>>7522050
they're literally just excuses to have a lavish feast with your boys
with tons of wineanal sex too
>>7521822
I read somewhere that they considered love between men stronger and purer than between that of a man and a woman. I think it was Phaedrus or Symposium. I don't remember.
>>7521822
>Odysseus
>asshole
this is not even funny, not even bait or troll
this is nothing
you are nothing
die
>>7521822
They didn't like Odysseus, he was crafty and relied on his wit instead of his sword, he was everything the Greeks of Homer's time deplored. He wasn't a hero, he was an asshole anti-hero, going through all of his ordeals by what may as well have been cheating, tricking the Cyclops instead of just fighting him one on one and winning, as any true hero like Achilles and Aeneas would, for example.
>>7521849
>My gott pure ideology
Found zizek
>>7521890
Heathen/pagan religions weren't the same as judeo-christian ones.
>>7521890
Their gods were just regular people with super powers.
>>7522181
Don't forget needing Athena's help with just about everything.
>>7522181
I thought the Romans were the ones who disliked him for that stuff.
>>7521853
don't be so certain. strange times are ahead. do you have what it takes?
>>7522181
Craftiness is what wins battles, dummy. Zeus got to his position by using craft against Cronus, who was physically more powerful.
>he was everything the Greeks at Homer's time deployed
Not really. If anything, his popularity was probably the highest during Homer's time / archaic Greek time.
>going through all of his ordeals by what may as well have been cheating,
Using your wits to go through feats that would be impossible for any mortal man to accomplish without having the Gods on your side isn't cheating. If you read of previous heros before him, such as Jason, Hercules, or Theseus, they all encounter monsters which in their physical strength, they couldn't conquer, and relied on some secret revelation of their weakness, often given by a friend or a God, to do-so.
>, tricking the Cyclops instead of just fighting him one on one and winning
Funny, I think Homer included that part just to show how valuable wits are to heros. As it's mentioned that even if they did kill the Cyclops (who had friends) they wouldn't be able to move the stone-door. Achilles would have probably got himself stucked and died from starvation or by getting overwhelmed by the Cyclops.
>instead of just fighting him one on one and winning
If his fighting prowess were superior in this instance, then him using it against the Cyclops and defeating him wouldn't be that heroic:
>"Aesop, that wise man from Phrygia, once saw a winning athlete who was making extravagant boasts, so he asked whether the man's opponent had been more powerfully built. The athlete replied, 'Watch what you're saying! I was much stronger than he was.' 'You fool!' said Aesop. 'What kind of prize do you deserve if you were the stronger athlete and simply triumphed over an inferior opponent? You might have earned my grudging admiration if your opponent had in fact been superior to you in strength, so that you had to defeat him by means of your exceptional athletic prowess.'
>>7522099
and they were right.
