This is the greatest novel I have read. Replacing gravity's rainbow for me.
Why haven't you read it yet?
>>7435309
cuz i read recognitions first. gaddis really is a damn genius.
>>7435316
>gaddis really is a damn genius.
This. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot or a supreme contrarian. I'm uncertain if an author with such depth and foresight will ever live again.
>>7435326
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3Czd7GwNy4
you ever watch this?
>>7435326
OP here, looking forward to reading the rest of his works. With JR, in fucking 1975, is sooo spot on with everything endemic to the American financial and art worlds of today.
The book is probably 90% all unattributed dialogue and the 10% that isn't is the most beautifully constructed segways/descriptions ever written.
>>7435309
Yeah, it's pretty damn brilliant.
But is it better than The Recognitions.
>>7435309
Does he share any thematic similarities with Pynchon?
Just a difficulty and cult following?
>>7435383
Not really. There isn't the paranoia a là pynchon but the similarity I'd draw is that the difficulty demands your attention for you to understand the author's points.
>>7435383
Their style is somewhat similar, though, from what I've read of both, Pynchon's is better. What Gaddis fucking knocks out Pynchon in is content and depth.
>>7435417
That's because Pynchon is your typical, autistic, humble STEM-kid while Gaddis is your prissy, educated, bourgeois cool-cat
reading recognitions, i always felt it was more about telling the real PEOPLE from the fakes rather than the art, there were those parties that were filled with what i imagine are the people who use pleb in actual conversation. i remember being angry at gaddis thinking that he was boring, but i realized in retrospect, after finishing the book, that he was just as fed up with that type of person as i was. it was like what catcher in the rye was supposed to make me feel, fuck them phonies.
>>7435344
He talks like he is trying to figure out how to speak in a way that others will understand.
it's more experimental than The Recognitions but really The Recognitions is perfect where JR is sometimes wearying
what an amazing first two novel streak tho
>>7435428
You aren't completely wrong: a lot of his novels are inspired by a deep hatred and cynicism, which is actually quite common among similar authors.
>Bast starts with great confidence, the sort I mentioned earlier, that confidence of youth. He’s going to write grand opera. And gradually, if you noticed— because of pressures of reality on him and money and so forth—his ambitions shrink. The grand opera becomes a cantata where we have the orchestra and the voices. Then it becomes a piece for orchestra, then a piece for small orchestra, and finally at the end he’s writing a piece for unaccompanied cello, his own that is to say, one small voice trying to rescue it all and say,Yes, there is hope. Bast starts with great confidence, the sort I mentioned earlier, that confidence of youth. He’s going to write grand opera. And gradually, if you noticed— because of pressures of reality on him and money and so forth—his ambitions shrink. The grand opera becomes a cantata where we have the orchestra and the voices. Then it becomes a piece for orchestra, then a piece for small orchestra, and finally at the end he’s writing a piece for unaccompanied cello, his own that is to say, one small voice trying to rescue it all and say,Yes, there is hope.
I love the man so much I wanna give him a big wet smooch.
>>7435309
I read the first 100 pages or so then got bored and stopped.
It probably is great, but I don't know if I have the patience to endure it.
>>7435309
OP how much you get paid an hour cor shilling?
If it's a lucrative job, might quick my cay job and sign up.
>>7435427
>Pynchon is your typical, autistic, humble STEM-kid
Where does this come from?
His writing to me comes across, atypical, warm, and unabashedly 'artsy', freewheeling, bombastic, and even pretentious, with most everything STEM related being little more than flavoring and character exploration.
>>7435465
He also majored in English, not STEM.
>Pynchon studied engineering physics at Cornell University, but left at the end of his second year to serve in the U.S. Navy. In 1957, he returned to Cornell to pursue a degree in English.
>>7435430
>restraints
anyone else get annoyed when the book blurbs can't fucking help but shout about how an author or a book is the successor of Ulysses, or the greatest since Joyce? I hear Gaddis mentioned in the same sentence as Joyce, and i'm sorry, but they're nothing alike. can't we just appreciate a new author without tying him to someone else that has nothing to do with him? fuck sake it's annoying.
>>7435483
It's hard to find a book where Joyce isn't mentioned
>hurr there's stream of consciouness in it therefor it's just like Joyce
shit really rustles my jimmies, man. gaddis was his own man.
>>7435344
He's fucking Benno von Archimboldi incarnate–save for subject matter, of course.
>>7435530
>Bifurcaria Bifurcata
>Agapē Agape
Yup.
>>7435530
please sir, i am just a simple young pleb, please explain
>>7435565
Benno von Achimboldi is a character in Bolaño's 2666. He's a writer who has a very tight and devout following who only achieved success late in life. He also has absolutely no concern with cultivating a public image, as Gaddis explained in the interview, and is judged by his very curious fans solely through his work–as it should be. In the book, he also writes a novel entitled Bifurcaria Bifurcata–two very similar but different words–while Gaddis wrote a novel, his last, entitled Agapē Agape–also two very similar but different words. The coincidences might not seem staggering, but they're certainly there.
>>7435607
huh! thank you kind anon, that sounds quite interesting, unfortunately i was turned off of 2666 hearing about the depictions of mass rape. i dunno what it is but i can't do that shit. i can do a little bit of horrible perversion but when it's a huge part of the story, or pervasive, or just used as a shocking bit of plot (a la barth in sot-weed factor with the pirate ship rapes) i just get fed up immediately.
>>7435624
But rape is sexy, anon.
>>7435672
that may be, but i'm a prudish pleb. i know i'm disappointing.
>>7435624
Yeah, there's roughly 200+ pages depicting in detail the rapes and murders of hundreds of women, but desu it's a lot more tedious than it is harrowing. I actually found it to be the driest part of the book, believe or not–though it's still quite good.
>>7435696
Wtf, I meant desu, not desu. Does /lit/ autocorrect 'desu'–that is: tee bee asche–as 'desu'?
>>7435696
yeah, i doubt i could suffer through that. i'm sure there's a grand artistic meaning to it all, but hey, there's plenty of less-rapey novels out there i can pleb out to.
>>7435703
i guess so. to be honest? ta ba hanast?
>>7435452
Previously, about a year ago I read the first 50 pages and dropped it.
give it another shot for sure. Once you are familiarized with the characters things start to make sense and as the novel progresses the action also esclates
i read that edition a while back. the thing is fucking monstrous
>>7435607
But wasn't Benno von Archimboldia Nazi war criminal?
>>7436175
Yezzir, but that doesn't discount the various aforementioned coincidental similarities, especially considering he's just a fictional character.
If you take deep set ideologies away, people begin to look much more alike.
>>7435402
>a là Pynchon
You mean "à la" m8
>>7437084
no, it was an exclamation. "Ah there! Pynchon."
>>7435459
I wouldn't quick my cay job anytime soon anon...
What the hell is this book supposed to be called?
William Gaddis?
JR?
JR A Novel?
What a shit cover.
Jr or Recognitions first? Where do I start?
>>7437233
The Recognitions
>>7437084
>Anon sez
>>7437233
The Recognitions is a great place to start. Honestly just read Gaddis in the published order
>>7437321
This.
>>7437321
but hwhy?
>>7435427
And that's your classic Cornell v. Harvard right there
>>7438302
So you can see Gaddis' style and ideals progress and evolve.
>>7439651
>>7435607
Gaddis is too well known to be Achimboldi
Achimboldi is more like Arno Schmidt
>>7439939
I meant Archimboldi whoops
>>7439677
Sure but there's no reason not to start with JR and move onto The Recognitions.
>>7439750
a rare gaddis
Has anyone even read this? Most the posts are about which gaddis to read first.
>>7442005
I've never heard any actual discussion about Gaddis. I have no clue about his style.
Apparently he writes about "phonies" and is difficult but not stoner paranoid like Pynchon.
>>7442574
it's been quite a while since i've read the recognitions, and mostly i remember it being about an artist (though there are many other characters) crafting excellent forgeries, there are a lot of strong concepts floating around, near philosophical without being drawn out to the point of exhaustion, many references that lead you to interesting insights if you bother to check them out, and generally a sense of what we all take to be real. the idea of phonies just came to me after i had read it, and is just part of recognitions as a whole. i plan to go back and read it again soon, i don't think i was mature enough to understand enough of it to give an accurate account of what happened, but it's definitely a brilliant novel.
>>7442594
So pretty much he writes about phonies and is difficult.
>>7442720
Yes, and Moby Dick is about seamen and is difficult.
Do you feel as though you somehow tumped the book or author when you say such stupid things?
>>7435344
Holy shit listening to him talk about getting lots of letters from people who had read The Recognitions in the 50s makes me realize how much Eigen in J R is actually based on Gaddis himself.
>>7435309
I'm almost done J R actually and I am in love with the way he writes dialogue. I liked it in The Recognitions but he really took it to another, better, level in J R. It's really like he's transcribing actual conversations word for word, it's insane.
Can we use this thread to also talk about how fucking great Gass' introduction to The Recognitions is? Goddamn seriously one of the best introductions to a novel I've ever read.
>>7442760
i really need to read JR, but i want to reread recognitions first. i can't wait. it's so nice being able to read good books.
>>7442813
one incredible author introducing another. What did you expect? I love how it gives insight to the history and impact of the novel as well as some info on the man himself.
>>7435704
I know it might seem strange, but I think that a person of your sensibility towards that kind of thing, could actually read 2666, and skip the part with the killings.
Doing that though, I would recommend you to try and read some of the parts, every now and then, and see how it feels.
I'd actually like that you do it and return with your experience. Would you do it for me anon?
>>7442850
Just jump into JR. you won't be disappointed
I don't think I've ever read a book as perfect as the Recognitions tbqh. It's so comfy, expertly written stylistically, and, despite its fragmentet plot, it just comes together as a straight forward narrative. I need to reread it, but I don't know if I should read JR before going back...
The phonies/real people thing going on ITT, I think it's pretty simplified. I don't think Gaddis want's to point to phonies (well yes, sometimes he does), but I think he is just as much about ponting to the divide between artistic fulfillment and thirst for recognition (ta-daaa!). Many of the artists, and generally people, in Recognitions, actually seem to mean what they do, and do what they mean, but they are eager, at the same time, of being rewarded for their work. It's the youthfull ambition as quoted here >>7435450 .
The forger, on the other hand, lives his art and doesn't care about recognition, but is being absolutely trampled be society and money. They are almost constructed as thesis/antithesis, but with the synthesis being totally absent.
>>7442968
i might, i'm slowly trying to desensitize myself to fictional violence and rape, but it's difficult and slow, and i don't want to completely desensitize. i think there is art within, but i don't know if i'm quite ready to enjoy the art at the expense of some of the worst crimes we are capable of committing.
>>7442978
oh, i know i won't, in fact i'm very confident i'll love it, but i want to read recognitions first. :P
>>7443046
After reading JR gaddis is my favorite author. Can't wait to read the rest of his works and re-read them many times in the future.
JR is the only book where I actually laughed out loud reading it in public.
>>7443034
That's just why it's so interesting anon. The endless desriptions of the violence in 2666 forces you to desensitize at some point, only to realize, a while later, that you just want him to get on with it, and get to the other part, and you start to become repulsed by your own ability to desensitize, and start pointing inwards, all the while you realize that what he's describing is basically happining all the time in Mexico, and you just don't give a shit in your day to day life.
For you to read it would be an experiment with the functioning of the text. I think what he's done is to create one of the most advanced reader experiences I know of, essentially calling out the modern (in)sensibility. I would so like to know how it works on you.
>>7442574
Gaddis writes a lot about the nature of art. inauthenticity, society, the role of the artist, and a shit ton more. As another anon pointed out, his works are borderline philosophy; they are filled to the brim with insights and content.
I'm on page 94/154 of TCoL49 and I love it despite occasional frustration.
Is TCoL49 a good litmus test for whether I'll enjoy Gaddis or not? What books should I read to prepare for JR or The Recognitions?
>>7443164
>afraid of being a lab mouse
i dunno man, that sounds horrible, i kinda like being a whiny simp with a bleeding heart... i mean, i get laid so often because of it... what happens when i become a cold cynic and i lose all that fantastic snugglepussy?
but you do bring up a good point, technically i am already somewhat insulated against the suffering of people in other countries that i don't directly experience, however i'm not sure i'd like to be desensitized to that. i'm already a supporter of ethical heat death, i don't know that i need more inclination to become a superscientist and take over the universe.
>>7443395
The recognitions isn't hard. The length is usually what is off putting.
JR however is difficult for the first few hundred pages as it is mostly all dialouge. After you're familiar with he characters it becomes more cohesive and extremely enjoyable towards the end.
>>7443395
it's funny you should say that, i havent read pynchon yet either, though i just ordered three of his books after reading 20 pages of gravity's rainbow and loving it and deciding that i'd like to start with an earlier work of his, but from what i've read it's great, and i imagine that if you like a bit of difficulty and a mind you can fall into deep and vast, then you can very likely enjoy gaddis, though i don't think they have the same sense of humor.
Is the Recognitions the last Christian novel? What do you think?
>>7443424
last mithraic novel, maybe.
>>7443395
Goethe's Faust, assorted works of T.S. Elliot, most of what else that I have seen can be researched at the end of a reading session, the themes and references will come back.
Research: http://www.williamgaddis.org/recognitions/
>>7443402
The Recognitions is hard though, I'd argue more so than JR.
>>7443558
Why? Other than length?
I'm assuming a read through where you'll grasp the overarching themes and not every single reference.
>>7443633
That's not a proper read.
His prose, structure, and symbolism is often extremely puzzling. Understanding it as a whole is even more of a challenge.
>>7443640
Oh, and thematically it can be very obscure because it's founded in older works.
JR is much more direct, but is written as some sort of massive anonymous closet drama.
>>7443640
>His prose, structure, and symbolism is often extremely puzzling. Understanding it as a whole is even more of a challenge.
This.
>>7443652
Dead on. It's also why some smart people consider The Recognitions a failure.
>>7443676
>Paying over $100 on a out of print meme book you don't even know you'll enjoy.
Good luck senpai.
>>7443676
>The Corrections
Burn it.
>>7443691
You see...if you were a normal person you would have grown up to be an adult. Being an adult means you get to make the rules of what the fuck you do with your time and money. And you know what the best part about that is? Man-children will only ever be angry at you. So that way, you always know you are doing something right.
Did anyone else think the espionage subplot in The Recognitions was pretty fucking dumb? Only thing keeping it from being 11/10.
>>7442734
No, but there's a lot said about Meville and Moby-Dick.
No one can tell me why Gaddis should be considered good. No one can even give me an excerpt.
>>7444946
The Hungarian guy with Basil? I never got much from it either
>>7445733
>No one can tell me why Gaddis should be considered good. No one can even give me an excerpt.
Gaddis is more than good: Gaddis is one of the greatest authors of all time: his style is beautiful; his influence on the whole postmodern movement is vast and even extends beyond, into the new sincerity movement; his statements on society are even more valid today than they were years ago; his works are innovative and wholly unique; his knowledge spans numerous fields and reaches an astonishing depth; and his works--all of them--are chockablocked with more profound content and substance than those of any other American author (even Pynchon and Hawkes and Gass). Here is a passage from The Recognitions that I found particularly beautiful:
There, balanced upon pedestals, thrusting their own weight against the weight of time never yielded to not beaten off but absorbed in the chipped vacancies, the weathering, the negligent unbending of white stone, waited figures of the unlaid past.
>>7445815
>muh beauty as argument
Godammit anon.
Glad you read decent books tho.
>>7435309
Because Gravity's Rainbow is far from the greatest novel ever written. I am no longer taking advice from /lit/'s meme book collection.
>>7446228
It's not the best argument, but it's quicker than explaining the full depth and worth of Gaddis' content.
>>7445733
Gaddis' prose makes no sense out of context (the rest of the novel.)
https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/15991.William_Gaddis
>>7435459
>praising gaddis' work is shilling now
go the fuck back to whatever shit board you came from you moron
>>7447158
you do a really shit job of shilling gaddis but i will read JR
because Delillo hypes it, not you
>>7444940
You're posting an an anonymous image board populated by mostly children you fucking sperg
