How the fuck did this nigga even come up with all that shit? I couldn't write one page of one of his plays in a year. It's just so fucking dense and complicated. Was he on crack the whole time or what? Shit's mad crazy.
Be not a niggard with thine mind
Loose the cup and sip the wine
>>7418799
Marlowe
>mfw the beginning of The Merchant of Venice
>>7418799
he CONFIRMED got the smonk
google shake speare weed
maybe that why he so good some real food for thought my man
>>7418835
>8
Oh
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/william-shakespeare/11792533/Cannabis-discovered-in-tobacco-pipes-found-in-William-Shakespeares-garden.html
>>7418834
Antonio begins all depressed.
Is it me or is that plot line dropped pretty much immediately?
Does Antonio find happiness?
>>7419050
And yes, I know he gets his ships, but he also pretty much gets keked
>>7418799
>It's just so fucking dense
Yeah, every single stanza has so many things going on.
He has a massive vocabulary, a command of differing high and low styles, and most importantly there's no biography we have that could "explain" his work away. In other words, he's still a mystery in a way that Dante (who did meet Beatrice and wrote from that inspiration) or Joyce (who did meet Nora and immortalized the day she first gave him a handjob) are not. Because we figure, oh Dante or Joyce did it for a girl they loved and lost or didn't lose, or whatever.
Hence, the authorship debate. Freud thought the plays were written by the Earl of Oxford. Walt Whitman and Mark Twain believed the Bacon theory. HELEN FUCKING KELLER believed the plays were written by Francis Bacon. (See the new book by Shapiro, "Contested Will", if you doubt me.)
You want to know my theory?
One English writer gets to be the most famous writer of all time. His name? Shakespeare (or so they say).
Meanwhile, 400+ years earlier, the only Englishman ever to be elected Pope gets elected as Pope. He promptly uses his powers to give Ireland to the King of England, which says a lot about the Papacy and about Irish Catholics. What was his name?
Well, Pope Adrian IV. The only English Pope. Look it up. His real name was Breakspeare.
Obviously Shakespeare was some kind of pen name. Obviously there is a conspiracy. I just find it hilarious that it's only within the past 10 years or so that people have started to suggest (based on the "Shake-shafte" found in a Catholic recusant household during Shakespeare's lost years) that Shakespeare might have been Catholic. DUH. Joyce noticed this, Antony Burgess noticed this, they both knew about Shakespeare / Breakspeare. They just had better things to write than more fapping over the supposedly greatest writer of all time.
Pic related: It's Hamlet's Uncle, the Roman who conquered Britannia and was deified there.
>>7419074
nice gobybasda
>>7419074
Could be interesting if this guy had expanded his theories.
Did he ever post anything more on /lit/?
I distinctly remember there being a thread he posted in that ended up with over 200 replies that turned into a cluster fuck because like 5 people were pretending to be him.
>>7419143
Keep an eye open for more Pinecone Magazine. I've been hunting that motherfucker through the archives & compiling it.Despite the 'waaaaaa I read it already in the thread'—it's getting fucking done
>>7419074
Stephenomenos! Stephaneforos! Go b 2 Paris, Stephenomenos! Go to, Dedalos!
>>7419050
Yeah it's not really referenced again. In high school I took an elective that focused on The Merchant of Venice and the teacher (he actually had good credentials-- Harvard PhD) specifically commented on that.
>>7419074
Why do people go so crazy over this? Breakspeare is a common last name in England (hell, the IT guy at my uni is named Breakspeare) and the alternate authorship debates have been thoroughly debunked. There was a man named William Shakespeare born in Stratford upon Avon for sure.
>>7419074
this seems really stupid but i do think shakespeare was catholic
>>7419481
>why so cray cray
Because of all the shit that follows that post. And because it's either Bill Murray or Tommy Pinecone himself saying it.
>>7419177
what are you talking about
>>7419504
Something the growndups wouldnt even understand. Forget it, Tommy, it's Pynchtown.
>>7419492
how do you figure
>>7419143
That whole thing sounds like an Umberto Eco novel or something
>>7418831
This.
>>7418799
owen barfield has wrote a book called poetic diction that touches on this
pic related as a slightly relevant excerpt I could find. i highly recommend reading the book though it's seriously a 10/10
git gud
>>7418859
Drugs just make me feel inadequate as fuck about every letter I type, so I'm at the trough of my productivity when I'm on them. Not that I feel much more confident sober.
>>7419491
If Shakespeare turned out to be Catholic, how would Protestant England take it? Would anyone kill themselves over it?
>>7419726
i doubt it
>>7419074
Except all that is silly because Elizabethan drama was a close-knit community of actors and well-established fame-hungry playwrights who were all constantly working with each other, competing with each other, and constantly creating documents of their own, so if Shakespeare was anyone but Shakespeare, someone would have known and disclosed it. He was just a guy who wrote stuff.
All of Shakespeare's plays--with a few exceptions--are punched up earlier material. He always went to some source (well-known history or an earlier or contemporary play) and put his own spin on it, but we've forgotten most of his sources, so he seems like an endless font of creativity. His genius is more believable when you recognize how much he stole and put "le twist" on.
Structurally, I don't know. It's like he and the words are one.
Conceptually he was 8.
Christians are desperate enough to argue over whether or not someone was their type of Christian with insubstantial evidence
>>7420001
>Conceptually he was 8.
>i have a shallow understanding of shakespeare
>>7419730
Hamlet and Macbeth's soliloquys both point to fedora. I don't know how anyone but an agnostic or atheist could/would write those.
>>7418799
He didn't, shakes-a-speare is a fucking plagiarizing hack.
Just like what Americlaps do now adays, steal your lifes work and profits from it, leaving you penniless(prime example Nikola Tesla)
>>7420029
I studied him at uni and read his complete works with supplementary texts. I feel like I understand him at least decently. "he was 8" was obviously an exaggeration, but there aren't many interesting ideas in his plays. With the exception of Hamlet, and maybe another 2-3 plays, Shakespeare evokes very little thought about our world.
SHAKESPEARE
WAS A BLACK MAN
I think the real question is more "why are the English so good at theatre?"
>They believe that Shakespeare was a historical person.
>>7420107
Because they're all closet homosexuals.
>>7419603
Thank you so much for that, Anon.
Do you have a PDF?
>>7419074
what's the big deal if he was a catholic? someone explain
>>7420110
>they believe that shakespeare wasn't a strong black woman who don't need no king james
>>7419074
not as magical the second time around. nice try though.
>>7420066
?????????????
>thought about our world
What the fuck does that even mean? Might we draw the line between what the things we discuss pertain to outside our world and within our world please?
>>7421017
Why do you take it so literally?... Let me rephrase: Shakespeare writes with amazing brilliance, about very shallow things. He deals with things on their most basic level, in terms of cogitation.
>>7421038
I agree.
Look up the introduction of this book in the Amazon preview: you will find the words for your own toughts
http://www.amazon.com/Poetry-Shakespeares-Plays-F-E-Halliday/dp/1842321250/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1449257681&sr=1-3&keywords=the+poetry+of+shakespeares+plays
>>7420343
Protestant England, under King James, during the infancy of protestantism.
Basically the Golden Age of Catholic hate.
>>7421038
>about very shallow things
How so?
>>7421017
>>7421119
See:
http://www.amazon.com/Poetry-Shakespeares-Plays-F-E-Halliday/dp/1842321250/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1449257681&sr=1-3&keywords=the+poetry+of+shakespeares+plays
Pages 7 and 8 of the introduction (look the Amazon preview)
>>7420331
I don't, its on google books, but only partially
>>7418799
Tolstoy has already exposed this hack.
>>7420031
You have got to be kidding. Right? You are just trolling a Shakes thread for giggles and lulz. Right?
Did I just feed a troll?
There can be no other explanation can there be?
Hamlet reads like a Catholic how-to manual for interpreting evidence, establishing guilt, and deciding upon sentencing. If the Pope himself sat down and wrote a papal procedural Law & Order it would be fucking Hamlet.
Please be a troll. The alternatives are all too bleak.
>>7420031
Wrong, the opposite is true.
>>7421300
>If the Pope himself sat down and wrote a papal procedural Law & Order it would be fucking Hamlet.
I just wanted to point out that I wrote that.
>>7418831
Legend has it that Marlowe gave Shakespeare the plot to Romeo and Juliet in a tavern only weeks before being murdered due to Shakespeare's self-indulgence.
>>7421369
That's the movie that beat Saving Private Ryan for best picture.
>>7421396
and The Thin Red Line
>>7421369
Romeo and Juliet is from Petrarch you absolute pleb. This is beginner-tier knowledge.
>>7421300
>Hamlet reads like a Catholic how-to manual for interpreting evidence, establishing guilt, and deciding upon sentencing. If the Pope himself sat down and wrote a papal procedural Law & Order it would be fucking Hamlet.
This is fucking stupid. An adhereance to certain percepts of Catholic theology doesn't imply that you believe in God. Plenty of atheists are still culturally Christian in many respects.
>>7421421
the idea of 'cultural christian' needs to die asap
>>7421426
It can't be helped. Western culture is seeped in Christian traditions
>>7421404
Yes, praise him.
>>7421421
OK, whew. It is a troll. I was seriously concerned there for a minute.
>>7421456
When you go to bed tonight, those few minutes before the click of the lights and the beginning of sleep, you'll think about your post and realize how fucking retarded it actually is.
>>7421435
You're reading it backwards. Guilt is a universal emotion.
If there was something about original sin in Hamlet, then your Catholic reading would be less retarded.
>>7421417
I think you're the pleb. Marlowe and Shakespeare were sitting together at a tavern, they fought over who should buy the other's drink, and then Marlowe outlined the plot of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet.
>>7421442
What's so special about this. It's natural lighting?
>>7421492
>then your Catholic reading would be less retarded.
I wasn't the one making that argument, I was the one arguing against it.
>>7421498
Yes. The chances of a director ever getting a shot like that, down to the second, is astronomical. There is another one where a real blue butterfly flits through the shot at the exact moment bombs start going off, and it wasn't planned, not in the script, and not CGI.
"Malick is god" is a /tv/ meme because of this.
>>7419074
"That Shakespeare was a Catholic is a thing that every Catholic feels by every sort of convergent common sense to be true. It is supported by the few external and political facts we know; it is utterly unmistakable in the general spirit and atmosphere; and in nothing more than in the scepticism, which appears in some aspects to be paganism."
-G. K. Chesterton
>>7420066
Fuck me. Someone go find my cyanide pill.
>>7421671
Yeah, I really don't get how this is the least bit controversial. Must be another one of those revisionist identity politics things that have taken over all the /lit/ departments. Even the trolls are using Aliniski-speak.
>>7421671
Can someone explain in laymans terms what is so Catholic about the general spirit and atmosphere
>>7421709
The ghost follows the Catholic rules for ghosts. Hamlet follows the Catholic rules for suicide. Hamlet follows the Catholic rules for judging guilt of a crime. Claudius follows the Catholic rules of confession. The list is so long that multiple PhD and DPhils (granted and defended) have been written about it and most have them have been turned into books.
(You know - books?)
>>7421709
"A correspondent has written to me asking me what I meant by saying that Shakespeare was a Catholic and Milton a Protestant. That Milton was a Protestant, I suppose, he will not dispute .... But the point about the religion of Shakespeare is certainly less obvious, though I think not less true .... These impressions are hard to explain .... But here, at least, is one way of putting the difference between the religions of Shakespeare and Milton. Milton is possessed with what is, I suppose, the first and finest idea of Protestantism—the idea of the individual soul actually testing and tasting all the truth there is, and calling that truth which it has not tested or tasted truth of a less valuable and vivid kind. But Shakespeare is possessed through and through with the feeling which is the first and finest idea of Catholicism that truth exists whether we like it or not, and that it is for us to accommodate ourselves to it .... But I really do not know how this indescribable matter can be better described than by simply saying this; that Milton's religion was Milton's religion, and that Shakespeare's religion was not Shakespeare's."
-Chesterton
So was this nigga real or fake??
>>7421912
The tenuous contact with reality which characterizes the current state of literary scholarship is revealed when we examine the number of conspiracy theories which contend that Leonardo DaVinci never existed.
The fucking painters are more grounded than /lit/, for fucks sake.
>Real.
>Duh
Now tell me a bout how the Earth is flat, and the moon landing was faked.
>>7421742
I guess he worshiped Sol Invictus because he set a play in Rome?
The ghost is deliberately ambiguous and can be interpreted at least three ways so people can argue about it endlessly.
Shakespeare himself was too much a student of human nature, too flexible of mind and empathetic to be religious. The fact that he even had main characters so eloquently and persuasively give voice to nihilistic views shows that he had grappled with them himself and had some merit.
He was capable of recognizing philosophical and political dilemmas and complexity, saw good and bad in everything, and not through only one paradigm, so he was a independently minded person with a self-determined worldview, not a Catholic dogmatist.
>>7418831
This.
>>7422525
Wat-evah you say, Saul.
You ever hear the one about the Soviet election?
>Guy gets thrown in jail
>What you in for?
>I was for Osip. You?
>I was against Osip.
>Figures. What's that guy's story?
>"I'm Osip."
Fuck off back to wsws.org, pillowbiter. Shakespeare is way above your power level.
>>7422525
It's ok. I get it. Your single mom is unemployed, you're on scholarship to regional county community college, and some ass prof said go buy a complete Shakespeare. You ran a thread here last week asking which, and you bought the Riverside, not realizing you were being trolled.
Now you think your 19 years and six days of exposure, bong hits and all, entitle you to declaim. It's all good.
You just ran into some grownups who recognize chin drooling idiocy when they see it, because they've seen a shit ton of it. You are a comic strip, run in a million papers every day.
So relax. Gather some tea leaves. The weekend at the college didn't turn out like you planned. The things you kids think passes for knowledge you'll never understand.
>>7422669
What did he mean by this?
>>7421334
>>If the Pope himself sat down and wrote a papal procedural Law & Order it would be fucking Hamlet.
Best one-line summary of Hamlet ever written.
>>7421300
>>7421334
>>7424131
Samefellow.
>>7424139
blacks are really the only race creative enough with words to come up with as much shit as shakespeare did. they are lyrical wordsmiths.
the only logical explanation for his creativity is that he was black
>>7424144
insert thy shlong into mine orifice.
>>7424283
Soon.
>>7424139
Was this nigga right about Mr. WH?
>>7419726
They've still got Milton, who supported Parliament in the English Civil War.
>>7421492
Sounds like you need to read some nietzsche boy
>>7421742
How does he follow the Catholic rules for suicide? He talks himself out of it because he doesn't know what it would death would be like, and says that conscience makes cowards of us all. Suicide is a sin in catholicism.
>>7422525
>Shakespeare himself was too much a student of human nature, too flexible of mind and empathetic to be religious.
>>7419730
You don't fucking know that stop it
>>7425335
Not him, but please watch a documentary series called "In Search of Shakespeare." It should be on YouTube.
>>7425362
Why?
>>7425362
I've wasted enough time on the bullshit authorship question, which I began reading about with an open mind. This just strikes me as more of that.
>>7425237
Oh, that this too, too sullied flesh would melt,
Thaw, and resolve itself into a dew,
/Or that the Everlasting had not fixed
His canon 'gainst self-slaughter! /
Are you reading from an abridged high school edition?
The only Shakepeare theory that's true is that he was gay
>>7425381
>I would know, I sucked his cock
>>7424139
Not much of an effort to hide, tbqh f@m
>>7425381
yfw you read sonnet 20
>>7418799
>Was he oln crack the whole time or what?
epic lulz
>>7418799
There was no television or vidya or shitposting during Shakespeare's time
>>7418831
if you read Marlowe and then read Shakspeare you realize pretty quickly that Marlowe wasn't exactly in any sense near the talent of Shakspeare
I have a hard time believing that he could be Shakespeare, I honestly believe that William was a real person.
The only Marlovian play in all of Shakspeare is Titus Adronicus, and while it possibly could be the bridge from Marlowe to Shakespeare (as in, his first play to transition into his identity), it's very unlikely to me.
That he quotes Marlowe a lot doesn't really hurt his reality; he also quotes, word for word, other playwrights and poets of the era, the poems in Tottel and Miscellanies, and the Arthur Golding translation of Ovid.
>>7425379
First of all, let's refrain from childish namecalling.
But to the matter: the Anglican church only just started to bury suicides this year. It's not unique to Catholic's to think suicide was a sin. Hamlet certainly seems deliberately less mature in that scene with all his "boo boo I want to melt away, fie fie, my mom is marry my dad's brother" . He is a different character after the the ghost visits. He doesn't mention God at all in the fourth soliloquy, where he is actually speculating on suicide rather than dramatically mentioning it on passing. He seems explicitly agnostic in calling death an undiscovered country.
If Hamlet not wanting to Claudius is Catholic, Catholicism is pretty shit, because Hamlet believes he knows better than God in that scene - as if God wouldn't know that Claudius was eventually going to get drunk and fuck Gertrude if he didn't die.
the author is dead cocksuckers, doesn't matter who he was
>>7425704
Contested Will by James Shapiro destroys all of the authorship conspiracies. It's not even worth discussing anymore.
>>7425732
Unless he's not dead.
>>7422525
You misconceive of Catholicism, I think, and I say that as someone who has never been religious, and much less Catholic. It seems to me quite likely that Shakespeare had a Catholic ancestry, and Catholic theology probably stayed with him all his life, and is sometimes quite evident in his plays. On the other hand, he was not a "dogmatist" of any variety, and I sometimes think, though I know it is outlandish for someone of that era, that, like for Joyce, Catholicism and Christianity more broadly became for him a system of aesthetics than a strict system of beliefs. Shakespeare was flexible, but there's really no evidence for actual atheism in any of his plays unless you are specifically looking for that evidence. He no doubt "grappled" with issues of religion, as everybody with half a brain does, but there's no reason to believe he ever actually left his religion.
>>7422669
How deeply deep. As if you're any better.
>>7425751
Literally impossible for the author of a work not to be dead once it's written.
>>7425704
>My damage control tactic is to now pretend to be slightly less retarded than in my previous volley.
You know how you failed at trolling this thread?
You'll bump it in reply to this.
>>7425050
Lord Alfred Douglas said that he truly believed the theory
