trolling, serious question; can anyone explain to me how being transgender is anything other than one of the most hard core forms of giving into gender roles and actually a legit thing?
I don't see anything wring with a man or woman living a life that would traditionally be of the other sex, but why can't you just accept the genitals you were born with while living that life? Why can't "female"and "male" simply come down to your genitals?
Serious question. Educate me.
>>6440160
I meant "not trolling" it cut out the first word for some reason
>>6440160
It's called gender dysphoria. Just having the gentitals causes distress.
There's certain things I do that are for my personal happiness and to alleviate dysphoria, and other things which are going the extra mile to fit in and not be a snowflake.
Call it conformity if it pleases you, I only mean to be a happy, functional member of society. Gender dysphoria doesn't conscript me to fight against normalcy. What's wrong with picking a side and committing to it? That's what many intersex people do, is it a problem for them to do the same?
>>6440210
With intersex people it is a little different since they have both, so picking makes more sense. If you're a single gender, why not just accept that you're that gender and live however you want? I just don't get why a guy who lives a life that would traditionally be seen as female's has to identify as female, why can't he just be a guy who lives like that?
>>6440260
because from a certain perspective, living that is the same as being that
>>6440160
The simple answer goes roughly like this:
An individual suffers from a condition called Gender Dysphoria. They feel intensely alienated from their own body and the need to change it so that it is more like that of the other sex. Getting cross-sex hormones also seems to help but we're actually not sure if that's because the brain somehow "gets better" or because it helps the body take the desirable shape. The basis for this kind of dysphoria is thought to be biological nowadays, caused by exposure to too much cross-sex hormones while developing in the womb but not enough to produce actual intersexed features (though some have argued it makes sense to view regions of the brain itself as being intersexed given that they have their own profile which matches neither men nor women).
Sex and gender are so heavily conflated that it is close to impossible to separate them for most people. While this desire is one of the body society pressures people to conform to being men or women and accept the social roles that come with that. You can't be a man if you have tits and the hormonal balance of a woman so, ah, you must be a woman. And, well, if you want people to accept you as a woman you better embrace the gender roles.
Since transsexuals are first pressured into doing so then rejected as being their "new gender" at every turn they redouble the effort and embrace every stereotype in the hope that if they do so people will finally accept them.
The need for a certain body and possibly hormonal balance comes first and society does the rest, pushing them to conform.
Complex answer:
The type of transsexuals I described above is the simpler one. There are actually two. The second, Autogynephiles/Autoandrophiles, has a very different background. For one the cause of their condition is, as far as we know, psychological instead of biological See:
>>6421830
>>6421855
>>6440260
I don't get too bent out of shape about muh identity and the related politics.
Maybe on some level I'm just a feminized boy, it's mostly in moments of self hatred that I focus on that. How genuine or not I am is sort of a philosophy thing I think, to some people I am, to others I'm not.
I don't request or demand pronouns. The way I ask for those things is with my looks and presentation and the impression my voice gives. People's reactions are my report card, not my life's blood.
Having legal documents and name that fit me means smoother sailing and less drama for me.
SRS is something some go for and not others. I hope it's not TMI to describe but, I have a really small and squishy boy parts lol. From youth, I have without thinking about it, treated it kinda like a clit. While soft, pushing it in and rubbing. External boners and jerking like a guy is unpleasant and had to kinda be explained to me, I have barely ever done it.
The result of SRS just seems like what I already do, but better, because I can take a man's penis into me, and make my body more sensible for two person romance.
Losing my testes will simplify my hormone regiment, and make me feel less ugly.
Life is short. It's what makes me happiest out of the options I have. Does that make any sense?
>>6440260
Don't you think that trans people try this, anon? Do you think the vast majority of trans people just wake up, think "what if I was the little girl/boy", read Tumblr, and get hormones?
Every trans person I know, even people who started young, really struggled to do what you said and "accept 'that they're that gender'", and guess what? It doesn't. Fucking. Work.
Gender dysphoria needs to be reclassified as an endocrine deficiency illness, because the lion's share of trans people are legitimately suffering from not having enough of a hormone that their brain seems to need. Your sex organs, aside from facilitating reproduction, primarily function as a factory for sex hormones. If you don't have a womb, but your brain wants a 85/15 split between estrogen and testosterone; CONGRATS you have to pop titty skittles till you're walking around with a pissbag.
When I read posts like yours, or when I think about how I've my father has disowned me, or about how my aunt did an exorcism on me when I came out to her, I genuinely sit and think deeply about what I've done. But I always come away thinking the same thing.
This feels right. Even on my worst days I'm happier than I ever was before HRT. It's got nothing to do with how I look, the attention I get, or how people treat me. It has everything to do with the equilibrium I had lost all hope of finding finally resting in my palms.
Have a good life, anon.
>>6440160
maybe try reading some basic information on gender dysphoria before you type up your ill-advised thoughts?
>>6440623
They were polite.
>>6440160
>trolling, serious question; can anyone explain to me how being transgender is anything other than one of the most hard core forms of giving into gender roles and actually a legit thing?
Gender roles have nothing to do with my transsexuality. What I'm doing is simply to get rid of my gender dysphoria. I still retain plenty of "girly" interests, hobbies, ect. I fucking love soap operas, you can't get anymore stereotypical housewife than that. But that doesn't change how I feel about my body. I still hate having breasts, I hate not having a dick.
>I don't see anything wring with a man or woman living a life that would traditionally be of the other sex
I don't really understand what you mean by this. "living a life that would traditionally be of the other sex" Do you mean career, hobby, ect choices? Because like said earlier, the way I feel about myself doesn't influence shit. I don't want to start pumping iron in the gym and working on cars because I want to be a guy.
>but why can't you just accept the genitals you were born with while living that life? Why can't "female"and "male" simply come down to your genitals?
Because I don't want these genitals. I want a penis. I want to be male.
>>6440422
Nice dubs
>>6440160
To be honest, I held this belief as well. "I don't have to be a boy to be who I am. I don't have to hide that I was born a girl to be who I am. I should be a proud female who people mock as trying to be a guy and rub it in their face that haha no I'm a girl." I clung to being a defiant girl who didn't neatly fit her gender for over 20 years...I wanted to set a standard that you can have all these boyish interests, fashion sense, mannerisms, haircut, etc and still be a girl.
I think this is possible, of course. But in the end, no matter how much I wanted to be that type of girl, I'm a boy. I can't explain the differentiation, or appeal, between being a masculine cis girl and a masculine trans boy, but I'm glad I'm done challenging/forcing myself to be something I'm not.
>>6440834
In your opinion, as a ftm, is it possible or acceptable for me, as a mtf, to be that kind of girl? I like the things I like, the style I wear suits me, but I'm still a girl doing it, right?
I want to be seen and accepted as female, but I won't force myself to behave contrary to who I am to get there
>>6440623
>literally asks to be educated
>respond with some self-righteous bullshit, immediately jumping to the worst possible conclusions, and worst of all, stooping to passive-aggressive insults
Way to be a cunt. This is why no one likes you fucks. It ain't your gender identities. It's your fucking bad attitudes. No one owes you shit. Maybe try reading some basic information on being a human fucking being before you type up your hypocritical, knee-jerk drivel.
>>6440292
>For one the cause of their condition is, as far as we know
We don't know that at all, though.
>>6441165
Well, as far as I've seen, there is no evidence for brain differences in non-homosexual pre-transition transsexuals.
>>6441191
Correct. As far as I've seen, no post-mortem brain scans exist for them at all. Rather than knowing one thing or another about their condition in this respect, what should be said about our knowledge?
>>6440160
I'm transgender...you dislike those body parts. Many so call trans are fine having there dick [ie shemales] transgender should only be used for those who want to fully change there sex from one to the other.
but I highly dislike my male parts and want to get rid of them =) that and...three holes are more fun than two....
>>6441198
I was under the impression that the brains of transsexuals who are not exclusively attracted to their birth sex were studied and found to closely match their birth sex. Am I mistaken?
>>6440183
Transbian here, my genitals cause me zero dysphoria and I use them when I have sex with my girlfriend so you're wrong
>>6441220
then I doubt your trans
>>6441226
yea..if they don't dislike there genitals then they are a shemale.....want to look like a girl but have the gear of a boy...I get upset with everyone using transgender to cover the ladyboy/shemale thinking they are the same...its NOT so yea he/she is using the wrong term
Why do people fixate on brain structure? I have friends who fit more into the AGP category, and they are still definitely humans.
Even Blanchard for as unsympathetic as he came off, seemed to acknowledge agp need for transition.
It just seems like every topic turns into this. It just always seems to come off like it implies agp are less vindicated in their transition than us. What's the point?
>>6441247
I'm the one who brought it up but I actually 100% agree with you. People constantly misinterpret AGP and wield it as a weapon.
>>6441211
Can you find any of the biopsies which treat them as a distinct group?
Zhou's study didn't seem to find a distinct group amongst the trans women, but it's quite possible no "AGP", or not-exclusively-into-dudes trans women were used.
After all, we are pre-supposing that these groups both exist and are neurologically distinct based on a theory we have accepted without any reliable evidence.
>>6441275
>Can you find any of the biopsies which treat them as a distinct group?
No, I haven't actually seen any. This is just what I've heard from some people I talked to. This made sense to me since the only studies which I did see prove anything focused on exclusively-into-men pre-transition transwomen.
>After all, we are pre-supposing that these groups both exist and are neurologically distinct based on a theory we have accepted without any reliable evidence.
I was under the impression said previously mentioned study focused on one group for a reason.
>>6441226
>you have to hate yourself to be transgender
how healthy
>>6441220
>I defy your statement so it is completely invalid and wrong because what applies to me applys to all trans people
Fucking transbiens
>>6441328
transbians are failed men who can't get the pussy
>>6441250
IMO Blanchard kinda spoiled his own work by injecting a really unpalatable narrative and bias into it. Whatever truth is in it, it's a bit hard to hear over him pausing to remind the audience we're all disgusting lying perverts and faggots.
Way I see it, there's more "reality" to the womanhood of even someone with male brain structure who makes a good, dedicated transition than I see reality in various religious beliefs (reader, pretend I'm talking about Muslims if denying Christ triggers seizures)
I have respect for dedication and the transition process. Going through it and seeing yourself go through it does stuff with your psyche anyways. Physical body, self image, and personality all interact complex ways right? Part of why I think I don't get hung up on the whole "I was always" the thing, a lot has changed with time, more than expected.
Hard to tell if I'm the reasonable one or trans uncle Tom, tho, lol. Many people are tender and defensive over validation.
>>6441317
It's more just a wonder why you'd give up your masculinity and chance at normalcy if you don't hate being a boy. Not like I think your actions should be controlled against your will based on dysphoria, just why?
>>6441360
because its none of your business and you do not control me dad! :^)
>>6441220
>Transbian
You're a fetishist. What makes you think you apply here?
>>6441317
You don't need to have genital dysphoria to be trans, and you don't need to be attracted to men either. That's just underage memelords spouting debunked Blanchard nonsense.
All you need in order to be trans is a desire to look like a sexy girl, and a credit card to order some titty skittles online.
>>6441333
>transbians are failed men who can't get the pussy
False. I have a girlfriend. Also Lalalily has several girlfriends. Your theory doesn't seem to hold up.
>>6441376
>Lalalily has several girlfriends
and no father I take it. I wonder how it'll develop later in life..
>>6441376
You're confusing being trans with having agp.
>>6440623
I just Googled OP's questions to see what comes up, and nothing really answers them. Also, OP was being extremely nice about it, they genuinely wanted an answer, not to tell people they're wrong for being who they are. This is the problem with many in the trans community, a lot of you will jump on people for not understanding when they really want to. I'm sorry, but you can't fault a cis person for not getting it as long as they're accepting and open to education. OP even said he (or she) has no problem with the lifestyle element, but is just confused about the physical one and why that is so essential. It's like with any other mental illness. For example, people who don't have depression aren't going to understand how some millionaire in good health with a perfect family could possibly be depressed, until it's explained to them.
Any straight cis woman would still pick the penis and just be a CWD, how many straight couples these days use strapons/have sexual issues because its 10x harder for the woman to climax for whatever reason?
Also wanting babies is a meme.
>>6440160
Every. Fucking. Time
Protip: transssexualism isn't about gender roles it's about looking like your preferred gender. Arnold schwarzenegger could act like a woman but he doesn't look anything like one so if he was trans he'd still be unhappy. That's why we have surgery and hormones.
>>6441750
A lot of people come hare and ask the same retarded questions though. "hurr why don't you just act like a girl?" it's patronizing.
>>6441226
>>6441236
Actually, by definition you don't have to be physically transitioning to be transgender, you just have to identify as that gender. Transitioning is horror on your body and there's so many terrible complications that can occur. It's understandable why someone wouldn't want to go through all that, especially given that you don't even get a real penis in the ftm surgery. You get a flesh tube that you can pee out of, that sometimes will fuse shut, leading to the need for further prodecedures. It can't even get hard. The surgery for mtf is better, but still very risky and prone to complications.
People need to stop trying to change the definition of transgender to their own over the top standards. Dismissing the people with gender dysphoria who don't plan on physically changing as not actually being transgender is a form of transphobia.
>>6441797
Well, if they're not being dicks about it, why is it so hard to just skip over the thread? Any "odd" group of people has to deal with repetitive questions from outsiders, whether it's black people, Muslims, goths, anime nerds, comic book fans, the list is endless. Given that there are so very many people in the world whose lack of understanding trans people leads to hatered to the point of murdering them, you should be thankful when someone who doesn't understand it at all is accepting and wants to be educated.
>>6441762
No, I definitely would want to keep my vagina, you get to cum so much more and getting fucked feels so good. The reason why it's so much harder for girls to cum is because stimulating the clitoris or G-spot is hard in most positions, so you need to have a partner that's really good at sex or at least is willing to learn. Most women don't tell their men that they're not performing well out of fear of hurting their pride, so the sex never really improves and the man remains a shitty lover for the next girl.
Girls have this issue less, though, because obviously a girl is gonna know how to please another girl.
>>6440160
>can anyone explain to me how being transgender is anything other than one of the most hard core forms of giving into gender roles
Isn't that just compensation though? I imagine trans people are pretty desperate to have their appearance in alignment with the gender they identify as. If that means outwardly having to embrace gender stereotypes to validate themselves as that gender, then that's what they'll do.
And this isn't the Tumblr board. We don't care about gender roles. People should just be themselves, whether that incidentally coincides with traditional gender roles or not.
>>6441762
Got neo vagina, I have no problem climaxing, I gotta say its even better, as Im able to interact with it a lot more.
I used to feel like shit as hell after using my penis, as dysphoria kicks in real hard after climax. But with a vagina I can't feel any better.
I think im a good example.
Transitioning, on hrt, still dress in masculine/tomboyish clothes, still have the same hobbies and personality, still go hunting and camping and biking... etc
My point is being trans has nothing to do with my gender role. For all intents and purposes i am a gender nonconforming woman. I simply feel objectively better with estrogen moving through my blood, and i will feel better after getting surgery too.
>>6440623
> go read some biased tumblr posts so we can shut you up with cries of "transphobia"
>>6440708
and do you think this has anything to do with how phallocentric our (and most) culture is?
im a girl too and god i wish i had a dick and no breasts but. idk.
>>6441317
> you have to be chronically upset to have depression
> :( but i wanna be depressed too tho
>>6441803
>Dismissing the people with gender dysphoria who don't plan on physically changing as not actually being transgender is a form of transphobia.
Transtrender detected
>>6441129
Well I don't owe OP shit, I'm not going to spoon-feed every asshole that comes here wanting an explanation they can find by reading a couple paragraphs on wikipedia.
Nothing about what I said was hypocritical. You're being pretty hypocritical with all your insults and somehow I'm the one that needs to learn how to empathize. You and OP both need to learn how to empathize and stop judging people. Fuck off.
>>6441750
Sorry but OP did tell us we were wrong in being who we are because of their misguided view of trans people. You can't blame anyone here for jumping on people who don't understand us because we are constantly being jumped on ourselves by people who don't understand us.
>>6440453
That girl is from a Nintendo game with an anime artstyle.
>>6442556
An outsider's curiosity can spur interesting discussion. This thread hasn't been too much of a shit show, why rage like this?
You're acting like you want to be tough, but really it just comes off sensitive and fragile.
Imagine if people weren't allowed to discuss anything that was covered by wikipedia? Interaction with people is the whole basis of a site like this, it's easier to learn some things from other people than trusting reference material alone.
It's 4chan, we're not that thin skinned. This rage is more out of place than the OP's question, so take some deep breaths.
>>6440160
Transgender people have brains akin to the gender they identify as.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19403051
http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/21/11/2525.short
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0085914
I'm too lazy to quote anything so you can go through and read it all yourself.
>>6440160
Transgender people have gender dysphoria, which makes it impossible to perceive yourself as the sex you were born.
Its nearly impossible to function in society when your preschool teacher is telling you to get in the boys or girls line to go to the bathroom, or girls are hitting on you in school, or the woman at the checkout line is like,, 'thank you sir', or your dad calls you son, or your child calls you daddy and your brain is just like,,
wtf?
>>6442629
You're right but I don't see anyone actually learning anything from this thread. I haven't seen OP make a response to any of the good explanations given to them, I suspect they're just a troll.
I'm not trying to be tough, and I'll admit to being sensitive but I'm not the first person to "rage" in this thread; people responded to my initial post with insults.
>>6442703
>your child calls you daddy
Call me transphobic, but I think that allowing yourself to have a child before you're the person you plan to be for life is horrible. By the time you are making or adopting babies, you should be in your stride, and in a position to shift your focus away from yourself while keeping it together, children are owed that.
>>6440160
>implying i transition because i want to do traditionally female things
i simply want the body of the opposite sex, i still do lots of stuff that would be considered male things
>>6440160
Because I hate having a penis. Every time I take a shower, use the toilet or change my clothes and I see that thing, I REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. It needs to go away fucking now. That's what gender dysphoria is. We aren't fetishists who enjoy playing dress up and "being girly". I honestly and wholeheartedly HATE MY BODY.
>>6442060
No. I could give less of a shit about phallocentric culture or patriarchy or what have you. I just want a dick.
>>6442060
>i wish i had a dick and no breasts
this isnt normal
>>6442785
Me too!
I transitioned because I thought it'd be sexy to have an extra pair of some nice bewbs to squeeze while I'm with my gf. I still like traditionally male things though. Liking feminine things is pretty AGP
>>6443285
Not up on the most recent brain scans, but per the biopsies there's a statistically insignificant differentiation of cis homosexual brains toward the sex they did not identify with (very high p value, most values comfortably within the normal range for the general cis populace of their sex), whereas trans brains were significantly more similar to the brains of cis members of the gender they identify with than that which they were assigned at birth (very low p value, results usually far outside the normal range for the general cis populace of their assigned gender).
These studies observe neither the cause of subconscious sex nor of sexuality, but rather an (eventual) indicator of some neurological difference in these categories.
Given the results, it is much more likely that these values relate to gender (and its congruence) than sexuality.
