Why do transgirls hate feminism so much?
I've noticed that transwomen hold an almost r9k-level grudge against cis women, and still get offended if feminists (or anyone for that matter) makes any slight against males.
Why is this?
Modern feminism is crazy garbago
>>6358831
Because the basic premise of feminism is that men are unjustly privileged compared to women while trannies grew up male and deeply desired being women instead. The two perspectives are naturally in complete opposition to one another since you can't really desire a life role and believe it's underprivileged / disadvantaged compared to the life role you have to begin with or else you wouldn't desire it.
>I've noticed that transwomen hold an almost r9k-level grudge against cis women,
How do you equate thinking feminism is misguided with hating women? I'm sure there are some anti-feminists who hate women, just like there are feminists who hate men, but they are a very small minority of bitter individuals.
>>6358850
I think also that the assumed premise of most modern feminism, that gender is largely a social construct and that we are not biologically predisposed to act one way or the other, intuitively runs contrary to the trans experience of a burning instinctual need to be the other gender. While feminism (except TERFs) is in theory a liberating force for trans folk by saying that they can be whatever they want, this is fundamentally counterintuitive for those who cannot wish away their feelings and do in fact feel that life as the other gender is a bone-deep and intrinsic desire, which relegates feminism to a distracting red herring that prevents a more satisfying, gender-essentialist recognition of an MtFs fundamental womanhood.
>Falling for the 4chan meme
People here don't represent anyone but themselves. Just about all actual real live transwomen I know of are feminists. Very rarely radfems though.
Because we grew up experiencing all the unfair scrutinization males face to adhere to gender roles. Even after transitioning people continue to hold the same sexism against you. We know first hand that there is just as much if not more sexism toward males than females (especially regarding freedom of expression).
Modern feminism believes that all people born male are somehow innately privileged when that just isn't true.
Feminists are sexist themselves and don't care about trans issues.
>>6358921
Eh. Male privilege is a thing. It is just that men are also getting fucked by a bunch of gender-based expectations and modern JUSTICE theory seems to be based on the idea that only the concerns of the weakest person in any situation are worth attending. I always found that somewhat strange given that, on a global scale, pretty much every westerner is immensely privileged compared to third-worlders and if this methodology was applied consistently we'd be much more focused on helping them than oppressed minorities in our own nations.
I ended up double majoring in feminist studies after I came out as trans so
>>6358921
>Feminists are sexist themselves and don't care about trans issues.
They care about the trans issues a lot, in the same way nazis care about jew issues a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTePubgCsJs
Im trans and a feminist desu
>>6358940
>Eh. Male privilege is a thing
no, it's not.
>>6358959
well maybe if trannies would stop trying to invade womens' spaces we wouldn't care so much
I hate trans and feminists
I believe in equal rights for everybody.
>>6358975
Look, are you denying that men are mostly raised to be powerful, self-sufficient, and assertive while women are mostly raised to be nice and to not rock the boat? Masculinity has its own set of problems but women grow up in a world where the constant background radiation from a significant number of people is "be pretty, be servile and shut up".
>>6359002
>buying into blank slate theory
rude tbqh
>>6359027
that's bullshit and you know it. children have been raised for years with the girl power mentality. No one in the modern day is going to get away with telling a woman they can't do something. I don't see why you think those pressures toward women are any different than the ones put onto men.
>>6359051
There's a lot of people who push the whole "girl power" thing. Certainly far more than in the past. There's also a huge number of people who still push the old attitudes, though more subtly now because it is less politically correct. The average Anon's feelings about women are surprisingly representative of very common societal trends.
>>6358949
Honest question, but besides going into a teaching position on those subjects, what are possible career paths for such a major?
>tfw trans and feminist
Feels good being trutrans and not an agp man that glorifies being a woman.
>>6359076
Not that person but
Marxist Revolutionary :^)
Feminism is insanity, most MtFs are insane.
I bet a lot are feminists.
>>6359079
The man who coined the term agp also wrote that non-agp transsexuals are just super gay men who transition to better catch dick and feel less guilty about it so..
>>6359071
Yet it's not any less politically correct to force men into traditional male gender roles.
>>6359079
feminism is a pointless pursuit in the modern day. The real work was done a long time ago. People now should be concerned with the rights of ALL people. Not exclusively fighting to advance the rights of one gender.
>>6359093
Nice meme senpai but feminism is about equality for both genders.
I know growing up on 4chan has caused you to believe that feminists are all misandristic radicals but that simply isn't the case.
I'll admit that calling it feminism when it's about more than just equality for women is silly and I can definitely understand people thinking that it's the case but it really isn't.
>>6359026
>The predictable and brave "equal" outcome for everyone regardless of time invested
>people aren't equal.
>>6359093
>Yet it's not any less politically correct to force men into traditional male gender roles.
Well, just a *bit*, but you're mostly right. It is just that the traditional male roles are all around more powerful and influential. Still shitty in the whole "btw you're only worth as much as you earn and can't ever show weakness :^)" way.
>feminism is a pointless pursuit in the modern day. The real work was done a long time ago.
I strongly disagree with that. While mainstream media and the government have largely caught up huge portions of society still hold to extremely sexist views. The modern struggle, then, is about fighting those views in the same way that the modern struggle against racism is more about uprooting it rather than legislating against it.
>People now should be concerned with the rights of ALL people.
I actually agree with that. A lot of people go about with the "fuck you, got mine" attitude. At the same time I can't help but wonder if anyone would give a fuck about feminism if there weren't people who dedicated themselves to that cause. There's nothing wrong with focusing your efforts on any particular problem as long as you acknowledge the others. The only thing that really gets to me is those feminists who don't give a fuck about the problems of anyone else in a sense beyond "Sorry, we gotta help ourselves first, good luck!".
>>6358831
Radfems passed antigay laws like hb2 made antidiscrimination laws for gays and trans illegal and legally banned them from ever suing.
Radfems now also stalk and harass and threaten the opponents of hb2. Even if they didn't mean to make radicalism look bad.
>>6358831
Seriously, why did Radfems stalk and death threaten that poor Butch woman who accidentally made them look bad.
The way they threaten anyone who makes their laws look bad is deplorable.
>>6359140
I honestly never ran into a feminist I didn't like until I went to /lgbt/. It is weird seeing such hateful people claim to be feminists. Kind of like seeing racist liberals.
>>6359108
okay not the guy you were talking to but if that was the case why give it such a matriarchal name? why not just call it equalisism? like i understand that back in the day equality meant giving female more rights but now that we are pretty much the same i dont see the reason to continue calling it femininsm, seriously if it was a bunch of men calling it maninism and then said "oh dont worry we care about female rights and the rights of everybody equally". like feminism is obsolete, it was a completely different meaning today and it would be much easier to get people on board if you werent so obviously just trying to make the world better for themselves, i have yet to meet a single feminist who actually gives a shit about inequality in 3rd world countries, they are always upset becuase a girl was prettier then them, or that a man did something well, ive never heard a new age feminist say to me "its so fucked how they treat women in the middle east" its always "this fucking white male drew a picture of a female and i hate it SHUT IT ALL DOWN"
>>6359108
Feminism has never been about the rights of both genders. It was only based in advancing the rights of women. Feminism can only be defined as a movement to attain rights for women equal to that of men. However that movement is long over. Modern feminists only serve to provide women with more rights, they are never concerned with men's issues. Do you ever see feminists fighting for men's rights? No. Key individuals in modern feminism cannot even define what feminism is. Modern feminism is nothing but a sexist embarrassment to what women fought for in the past.
>>6359133
>huge portions of society still hold to extremely sexist views
I agree, but it's not a situation where men have the advantage over women. There is a ton of sexism towards both genders, but men's issues seem to be thrown under the bus at every chance. Feminists aren't fighting for equal rights for all and anyone who tries to speak out on sexism toward men are shut down and accused of being sexist.
>>6359157
>I honestly never ran into a feminist I didn't like until I went to /lgbt/.
Bullshit.
>>6359165
Maybe they just have shit taste in people or are a massive piece of shit themselves.
>>6358831
People don't hate actual feminists. It's a supportive stance towards equal rights as a whole... if someone is making "a slight" against guys, they aren't actually feminists; they're pricks.
People hate the douche-bags that would find douche-bags deprecating (instead of hygienic, helpful, and stylish).
Groups with undeserved superiority complexes are hated: women that don't like men as people because they are men, KKK members that don't like black people as people because they are black, Turks that don't like Armenians as people because they are Armenians... it's all the same shit.
Feminism is the dude that accepts all these people and works with them to create a world of understanding... that though these groups are separate, they're equal ; ]
kidding aside,
Feminism supports the understanding that stereotypes are indispensable for establishing context, but they are not true definitions (just probable ones). That ultimately, a person should be judged based on their merits. That ultimately, the groups can remain separate... but the citizens are judged equally based on their character/merits, not on their separate groups. Everyone is judged equally (based on whatever society has a boner for at the moment).
Kinda ranty life story but meh. I don't know about others, but for me it's the fact that most women don't acknowledge all the other benefits that they have that make their lives easier. Most women constantly have things bought or offered to them, so that's more money in their pocket to buy stuff with. Most women don't have to bring a purse to the bar, and the best part is that unless it's Bill Cosby they can leave right after. Women don't "get paid as much" because they don't go into the same fields as men. Almost all the women I went to school with, almost an all girls school like a 1/200 ratio no joke, wanted to either get knocked up and live the good life, become a teacher, or become an assistant. I personally just don't believe in the wage gap when at one point my mom actually had a higher position than my dad and definitely made way more. Women have way more power around men as well. If you're ever out with your friends and there's only one girl there, usually have to be somewhat pretty in this case, watch how all the men will turn and immediately pay attention once she starts talking, if it's something positive they'll yes her to death and ignore her, but if she's upset their there and ready to fight for her. Women are also allowed to express their feelings, and are openly accepted for experimenting. Men on the other hand are taught from an early age to usually put on a straight face and brave through any storm of emotions they might feel, and if their wife or girlfriend ever were to find out that he experimented in college, well that's the end for him in some cases. Women also don’t have to worry about ever losing their children. (Cont)
>>6359194
(Cont) Some fathers are better than mothers, and yet the court in most cases still choses to leave the kids with the mother. Why?, because they are “hers”. Who loses everything in most divorce cases, the men, who gets most of the stuff, the women. One girl I worked with, again work with literally all girls, literally did just this she got knocked up and left him and now lives pretty comfortably, all intentional by the way. Two of my four managers constantly cheat on their husbands as well because they got bored with them. Life does favor them considerably better, although men do have it better in many cases as well. Men don’t have to feel scared going out at night by themselves, don’t have to deal with breast unless their neckbeards, don’t have to deal with someone hitting on them constantly, and can have other male friends without wondering if they are thinking about having an actual friendship, or fucking them. Men are also more heard and obeyed than women are, a group of men won’t really take a woman as a leader seriously, but will listen to the call of their fellow man. I just think that women should shut up when they complain because honestly both sides have great parts, and shitty ones it just all depends on the situation, but the difference is that you don’t see men going crazy over the shitty hand they got. I will admit though there is definitely a big shift in independent women that want to make it without a man, and I think it’s really cool to see stuff from their perspective, because honestly I think that society would flow much better if it was evenly coed. Just my thoughts and sorry for being ranty.
>>6358831
most trannies I know are huge feminists.
>>6358831
because women are a cancer, being one doesn't change that view
>>6359219
this 1000times
>think women are just objectively shitty men
>still want to be one more than anything else in the world
someone explain please ive givin up
>>6358831
why are you still fucking posting here you retarded cunt?
>>6359026
then your a feminist, congrats
>>6358831
Well you see honey even most cis women don't really like feminists and think it's cringy...it's really as simple as that.
People who like and are feminist are like the !% of women desu.
>>6359259
>youre le feminist if you believe in equality
>>6359076
Education in general, local politics/organizing/activism, NGO stuff, writing/journalism, I dunno dude, outside of STEM most liberal arts type degrees are relatively interchangeable in that degrees will open doors but it's up to you to figure out how to actually use the things you learned in school to get where you wanna be. My other degree is in physics so the science/tech route is always open. I'm doing feminist studies because I find it personally enriching and stimulating.
The level of brainwashing in this thread is unreal. I hold deep pity for some of you.
>>6359483
Weirdest part of what you said is no one knows which side of the argument you are talking about. Maybe both?
Assuming non SJW tier feminism, because feminism is against gender stereotypes and trannies fucking love, and NEED gender stereotypes. Makeup, skirts, thighhighs etc. -- without external, superficial trappings most won't be as female as they want to be, and they know that.
For this reason the feelings are mutual at least on my part. Fuck you too, trannies.
>>6359541
>People deny trannies are women
>Trannies buy into the meme in order to try to prove the world they are women
>"wew fuck trannies tbqh"
You're not a feminist.
>>6359570
You really have that victim complex down.
>You're not a feminist.
Not by modern standards. I subscribe to a more traditional form of feminism.
>>6359597
Any standard which allows you to spit upon people in need of liberation is not one worth following. Claiming a seat just below the patriarch and ruling by his side is not the same as trying to bring down the structure.
>>6359620
I can smell the bait now.
why shouldn't I hate my oppressor?
>>6359630
>Someone calling me out must be baiting
Not everyone on this Russian dog-folding forum are sexist scumbags. I'm a feminist. The same one who tried to explain male privilege ITT.
>>6359634
Because generalizing wide, diverse groups is dumb.
>>6358831
Why should I live my life according to what some dyke with short blue hair thinks. I hope they all die.
>>6359675
>Insulting the people trying to help you
nice
>>6359651
You called me out on nothing. You just whined about the patriarchy and how cis women should be obligated to help you take it down, or something like that.
Your post was bad and you should feel bad.
>>6359692
>trying to help me
yeah, according to them
kill yourself my man
>>6359705
I called you out on throwing other marginalized people which research suggests are intersexed under the bus.
>cis women
Self-proclaimed feminists. If you're not here to change this fucked up social structure then I don't know what you actually stand for. So long as it stands women cannot be equal. They may get some bones from master so long as they don't get too uppity but that's that.
>>6359722
>Implying the vast majority of feminists aren't pro-trans
m800..
>>6359750
Nice effort but needs more subtlety.
Made me give a (You) though, 6/10
>>6359779
Not everyone who disagree with you are trolling you. To think that is to bury your head in the sand.
>>6359764
why should I want or need the """"""support"""""" of dumb overweight whores? I hope they burn
>>6359804
Infighting of this kind is foolish. Why do you harbor such hatred for people who like you and want you to be well? Why not return the favor and stand together?
>>6359803
>Not everyone who disagree with you are trolling you
You seriously want me to believe you're not samefagging with your tumblr tier """"opinions""""? This isn't even bait, just plain shitposting.
Enjoy your last (You).
>>6359810
>people who like you and want you to be well
aka fat dykes with savior complexes who turn on you the moment they learn you don't drink their kool aid
also I'm not a libshit, I don't care about equality, I would be happy if all fags were forced into slavery desu
>>6359843
here comes the "i am morally superior to both of you since i don't take sides!" autist
>>6359868
I did take a side, though. I'm a feminist, and so naturally and necessarily a humanist. I care about equality. That's the side I'm on.
>>6359877
Oh, that makes sense. I hope you die of AIDS.
>>6359878
Thanks. I hope you find happiness.
>>6359883
I hope you find AIDS.
>>6359886
That's a step up from dying of it, so thanks.
>>6359843
>hurr durr we should all stay together
You can't seriously still think that's a good idea right? Here's a hard pill to swallow: different people want DIFFERENT things. Part of the reason modern feminism is getting so ridiculous is because it wanted to incorporate every fucking minority --no matter how different they are -- under it's belt because muh "equality for everyone!" meme. This is a recipe for infighting and loss of coherency. And the two posts you quoted are perfect examples.
>>6359140
Radfems didn't pass hb2, it was entirely the religious right. They merely cheered by the sidelines while the majority of feminists balked at their stupidity.
>>6359938
You're right that there are some groups who want very different things but I genuinely believe that there is enough common ground between the vast majority of progressives to work toward goals common to all of us. Standing for everyone is more, not less, coherent. It is not only fine but necessary that some people focus on one given struggle but they should recognize the legitimacy of the others and when possible support them. Infighting is scary. Minorities pitting themselves against one another in open conflict is far more dangerous.
Also /mtfg/ is extremely unrepresentative, they're basically Susanjugend
>>6359962
>identity politics
die
>>6359938
You're a retarded hypocrite.
>>6359965
I once ventured into that thread and was scarred for life. They honestly sounded like /int/ with their refugee memes and fascism boners.
>>6359968
There are no politics without identity.
>>6359977
oh really? hopefully you will be the first to be sacrificed to the islamic horde
>>6358831
Because feminist exclude trans women... while even Donald fucking trump thinks they are normal and good people
>>6359981
I agree #killwhitey
>>6359982
I'm a socialist, not a pluralist. I support the government using the education system in order to spread its ethics to its citizens. The mistake Europe made is not importing refugees but not making effort to assimilate them.
Let go of the romanticism of wildflower culture. Like everything else culture is stronger when cultivated and designed by a human hand.
>>6359990
>I'm a socialist
>The mistake Europe made is not importing refugees but not making effort to assimilate them
why would you want to assimilate with savage degenerates? fucking retard, what I said stands
>>6359985
I know you're being a memester but I actually strongly dislike the vehement hatred some people show toward the dominant groups. It is fine to criticize the dynamics which lead to the current situation but when you move from analysis of cause and effect to personal hatred you've crossed a line you shouldn't have. People can be complicit in perpetuating a system without meaning to and hurting them because of that is not right.
>>6359990
>Let go of the romanticism of wildflower culture. Like everything else culture is stronger when cultivated and designed by a human hand.
>>6359995
>why would you want to assimilate with savage degenerates?
Well, you can't just kick out EVERYONE who vote rightwing..
>>6359995
why would you want to let them in and no assimilate them?
holy shit.
>>6360000
Explain to me, dear Anon, how a Liberal democracy can be expected to stay Liberal if it allows illiberal ideologies to potentially take over the government? Directing culture is the only means by which such a system can defend itself from ignorant views.
Meanwhile i am trans and do thing men and women aint that different actually. Sure theres a few differences but why should anyone be expected to act any given way or play a given role?
For me being trans is about my body which i just can not deal with, it disgusts and disturbs me, feels wrong.
How i act and what i do has literally nothing to do with being trans, altough ill grant you that i never really acted in away that is usually seen as masculine...
Am i really the only one thinking like that?
>>6360011
>Bomb country
>Make it a shithole
>Citizens search for a better life; try to move to the west
nicely done m8
>>6360009
>everything I don't like = bad or ignorant
nice
>>6359969
Nice projection.
>>6360016
>Treating women as chattel is fine so long as the perpetrator thinks God told him to do so
>>6360015
>citizens search for a better life
no you don't understand, I am saying bomb them so that there are NO citizens left, those ingrates deserve to die in their sand country along with their religion
>>6360019
Western economies would crash long, long before they could commit genocide. The world's a big place. Then you're left with millions of people out for your blood.
>>6358831
Because you're getting your news from /pol/ or tumblr.
Folks in the real world aren't a hive mind. Each person can approve of, or disapprove of, or even be indifferent toward a concept.
>>6360025
whoa, a million sand people armed with rocks, so scary
>>6360026
>Folks in the real world aren't a hive mind
jej
>>6360030
A bunch of people with a plane caused the US to scream and howl for a decade. It doesn't take much to hurt soft, western nations.
>>6360033
I agree, السلام عليكم brother
We will take the wombs of their women, and slaughter their men. We are blessed.
>>6360014
No, same. I thought that was that agreement for being trans.
The feminism movement is a joke and it's spammed everywhere.
If you open up the WSJ, economist or the FT you no longer get opinion pieces on financial happenings. It's all social issues and pandering.
>>6359108
>feminism is about equality for both genders.
>Calling anybody else's statements a meme
Yeah nah, Feminism was and is exclusively for females, to the point of actively wanting to destroy certain facets of society such as marriage from its inception, all because of an understandable but ultimately corrupted feeling of misrepresentation.
>>6360058
As a tranny I'm just going to say: Go back to /pol/
>>6360069
why
why say that.
fucking hell
>>6360069
I agree, /pol/tards are just as bad as SJWs!
>>6360069
This triggered by a simple fact.
Then again, the fact of your sex triggered you, too, so I shouldn't be surprised.
Feminism =/= Egalitarianism =/= MRA
ITT people who don't know the difference between radical feminism, which is innately female-exclusive and stuck on privilege theory and eradicating things such as marriage, and liberal feminism which is about breaking social barriers between both genders. I do agree though that most feminists do a shit job of recognizing that female privilege definitely exists. Male privilege does too, don't get me wrong, but female privilege is more pervasively about being able to express yourself without fear of violence (or go to prison without fear of sexual violence), whereas male privilege is the ability to take an uber without realistic fear of sexual violence, and the ability to have friends of both genders without them having ulterior motives. In the end it boils down to the fact that people are sociopaths. The feminist theory is that the construct of machismo is responsible for the misery men face, which is certainly possible but debatable. Look, as someone who has lived female for 16 years and male for 5 I can definitely attest to the fact that both genders have privileges. I wish we could all recognize that and work to make a better world without arguing.
>>6360171
liberal arts major detected
radical feminism is liberal feminism
and kys for using the word "privilege" unironically
>>6360079
>that image
They are though. Anti-SJWs also make problems out of nonissues and are just as easily butthurt. Feminism is pretty silly these days, don't get me wrong but as someone who had an anti-SJW tumblr I can say that people in that community are constantly looking to get angry.
>>6360180
So terfs are sjws to you. Nice to know you're retarded.
Not her btw
>>6360185
you don't even know what that word means, neophyte
>>6360183
Well since you say so, it must be true.
>>6360191
Which word and how so?
Huh??
trannies fucking love feminism, they are one of the principals advocated's, 4chan trannies don't represent practically anything, the only feminism trannies hates is TERFeminism for obvious reasons.
>>6360171
/thread
why FTM dudes are so chill? you are the only one that give this thread some sanity.
feminism is a meme
i think there's some pretty fundamental differences between sexes, even as a tranny
I still think that ultimately, your sex shouldn't dictate the paths in life, but people are certainly going to be predisposed towards certain directions because of it
>>6359027
Are you denying that the 90s happened?
Because when I was raised to believe that while men and women are fundamentally different yet equally capable, I took it to mean that people should he held to the same standard regardless of sex
If you want to believe that women are taught that they're inferior, I'm going to call you sexist and accuse you of projecting your own insecurities
>>6360235
I do not. Things have definitely gotten better and a lot of people passed on the message that you've mentioned. There was and still is a huge group which propagates the old message. Enough to make it stick, though not enough to make it dominant like before.
Society can't resist a good story about a damsel in distress. Women's perceived suffering is valued a lot higher than men's. I'm guilty of it myself.
Feminism is essentially a multi-generational cult built up around the taught plight of the poor womanfolk, and it won't go away because it's goal isn't the betterment of women's station in society. It's goal is self-perpetuation.
>>6359955
#NOTALLFEMINISTS
kek. Radfems are just the outspoken part of feminists, normal feminisst don't think any less, they just good at hiding their hatred and disgust of trans women.
>>6360253
Wait, so you think #YesAllMen is valid? Fuck off.
>>6358921
This. Women complain all the time about being oppressed yet it's men that have to stick to narrow gender roles. We're just sick of their shit.
>>6360276
Why not both? Why can't everyone suffer?
>>6358841
/thread
>>6360171
Death to feminists!
>>6360277
They do have issues, what angers me is that their gets addressed while mens issues get laughed at.
Fuck feminists
I hate feminism because of it's violent history against trans women.
Even now where feminism is starting to accept trans people, I always feel as though they only allow trans women in their spaces reluctantly. Whenever I've been to a queer feminist event, people have always acted uncomfortable around me, even all the non binary dfab people and its really shite.
I like feminism, but I'm a trans feminist
>>6360303
>I hate feminism because of it's violent history against trans women.
Lmao you should hate everyone then
>>6360303
>"Whenever I've been to a queer feminist event"
>Associating with fat bull-dykes
Why?
>>6360303
>>6360305
Only Westboro and the God hates Fags groups have been as aggressive as Radfems in helping to draft laws targeting gays, lesbians and trans.
They're also one of the only groups to actually stalk, death threaten and harass journalists, PayPal and target employees and even poor helpless Butch women who made them look bad by mistake.
>>6359157
>>6359955
>>6358831
Bullshit, they wrote to the congressmen. The one in Nc even claimed some Radfem friend helped give him advice in how passing laws banning gays from ever filing suits and banning all Ad laws would protect women from all those evil rapey faggs. They own the law, every single one of its provisions screwing over lg&t.
They're now threatening anyone, business employees, journalists or even dopey women who are critical of the laws. They're writing for the same ADF that's called for killing gays. They're indistinguishable from the rest of the far right.
Feminist ideas might have been good, nobody should ever be mistreated for who they are, what but it's become a fundamentalist religion dedicated to exterminating fags and anyone who's different in any way or doesn't live up to its standards. An extreme version of what happened to Christianity.
Their working with congressmen, antigay groups and targeting law opponents makes that clear.
>>6360253
>normal feminisst don't think any less,
Normal feminists talked against the law, moron. Normal feminists accept trans women. Steinem is pro-trans, Butler has always been pro-trans.
The only terf-dominated feminist orgs are jokes or footnotes.
Honestly, "feminism" is an empty statement and in practice means nothing. There are so many schools of thought and so many interpretations, not to mention people's personal impressions and beliefs ABOUT feminism, that in essence the word carries no information. If I meet someone who calls themself a "feminist", I have no idea what this person stands for. Do they just hate cisgendered white men? Do they hate transwomen? Do they believe a woman's place is in the home, taking care of children while her husband works? Do they want to overthrow capitalism through a violent revolution? All of those things are beliefs that people who describe themselves as "feminist" have. And they all believe themselves to be the "true" feminists while all others are imposters.
So fuck "feminism" as a term. It's become as meaningless as "socialism" and can mean literally whatever someone wants. Tell me what you believe in and I'll tell you if I agree or not.
>>6360376
>>6358831
Steinem was talking about how people need to get over their gender issues by learning to love themselves, not taking hormones.
Just a nicer and fuzzier sounding fundie.
And radicals writing to congressmen that wrote hb2 and helping them write the a law screwing over gays lesbians and trans makes it clear what's being done.
The only feminist groups actually lobbying on hb2 are the ones death threatening opponents of the law and stalking anyone who makes it look dumb.
Actions matter and their work for hb2 make it pretty obvious that radicals want to exterminate every single gay, lesbian and trans off the surface of earth.
>>6360185
>her
If you did that on purpose go take a long walk off a short pier.
>>6360180
Factory worker actually. You're retarded if you aren't aware that "radical feminism" denotes a specific type of feminism, not an extremist as is often misinterpreted. That's like not knowing the difference between libertarian socialism and Stalinism. Both are socialist ideologies, but both are so vastly different they don't even look similar unless you have a knee jerk reaction to the word "socialist" such as you do with "feminist" and feminists do with "men's rights". I would be pro-MRA if they weren't so hung up on fighting an ideology that has too many variations to be boxed into its umbrella term. I consider myself a men's liberation activist because I recognize how shit males have it in this world without totally dismissing women's problems as well.
>>6360303
>Expecting anything but hypocrisy from dfab non-binaries
How do you associate with people who have no dysphoria appropriating our movement having lived with dysphoria your whole life?
Because radfems hate us.
>>6360421
>>6360376
You're that same radfem man who use to spend hours on end here citing all of his heroes and shouting about how we were all evil sinners for being fags and that boys looking too feminine and taking pills that made them fem and anything that blurred the lines on sex was literally the worst sin conceivable.
That was you wasn't it?
What brings you back here to this den of sin? Why would you want to convert sinfull faggots like us?
>>6360468
>make up is equivalent to any of those things
>the difference between men and women is the same as the difference between races
who the fuck actually thinks this is a legitimate point?
>>6360501
Straight Men who use feminism as a convenient way to feel righteous And chivalrous for bashing faggs.
>>6360468
>You're that same radfem man who use to spend hours on end here citing all of his heroes
I'm straight mtf, sorry.
>but muh terfs
Sylvia Rivera was a feminist until she died. The person The Transsexual Empire was written to attack is still a lifelong feminist.
You're a pissant edgelord on a Chuvash mosaic painting public place.
>>6360434
>appropriating our movement
You have no movement because you're a muh stealth coward. At least NBs bring the numbers when there are things to agitate for.
>>6360421
>If you did that on purpose go take a long walk off a short pier.
Deal with it tranny
i only hear a bunch of whores crying in this thread
>>6359091
shhhhh, Just let them desperately cling to this, it's all they have
>>6359822
>TUMBR TUMBLR TUMBLR!!! that means I win!
>>6360079
>w-we're totally different!
Because they're fucking blokes
>>6361141
>/pol! /pol/! that means I win!
>>6361172
>he takes /pol/ seriously
>>6358831
You spend too much time here on /lgbt/.
Most mtf's are cool, but a lot of them here are fucking dumb.
>>6360171
if that's really the case why hasn't "liberal feminism" split off into its own movement, rebranding as something that isn't ostensibly female-centric? it would simultaneously separate them from the "bad" feminists and end the criticism that they aren't actually working for the benefit of both genders
>>6360559
I'm actually not stealth, I'm just truscum AKA correct. Have fun with your teenage girls playing pretend.
>>6364425
>mah trutransness!
>I'm a real woman that was once a man!
>Not a fake woman that was once a man!
Logic be damned.
>>6360468
>Radfem
Literally not even a little bit. I wouldn't touch that movement, or any movement that generalizes an entire group of people, with a 12 foot pole. Egalitarian feminist. Former anti-feminist. Passionate about liberating women AND men from the strict bounds of gender roles. I realized there's a world outside of tumblr, this crazy "muh safe space" political correctness, and the Sarkeesian cunt. There are ideologies, and then there are the people who pervert ideologies.
>>6364067
I can't speak for other feminists but I get doxx threats at least twice a week from radical feminists I've pissed off, pointing out their bullshit. I've had to close down two blogs because of this. The thing is though, I have a lot of followers who agree with me but most of them only say this in private. I encourage them to grow balls and not listen to the threats the extremists make. I mean really, I have serious reservations about the silence from other feminists on the metastasized cancer that is man-hating feminism, TERFism, sex negativity, etc.
>>6363330
Thanks pal, what demographic do you belong to? (Just curious my dude/girl)
>>6360211
I've just spent my life leafing through ideologies to create my own views. I read a seriously retarded amount. Yeah most other FTMs I know are pretty cool dudes - even the anti-feminists and the sensitive ones.
>>6364470
I have no idea what you're saying. I'm FTM and am just stating the fact that if you do not experience dysphoria, you are not trans. Not all NB people are trending (if they have dysphoria they're fine by me), but so God damned many of them are.
>>6364505
Daily reminder that Sarkeesian did nothing wrong. She posted some dumb opinions on the internet and got harassed for them relentlessly. Imagine if every person who wrote stupid stuff online was treated like that.
>Why do transgirls hate feminism so much?
Feminism wants to toss traditional femininity in the trash, while MtF's want to become it's exemplars and vanguard.
>I've noticed that transwomen hold an almost r9k-level grudge against cis women
Female participation in STEM is higher in Saudi Arabia than in the USA. All this liberation, and they waste it.
Source;
>https://contexts.org/articles/what-gender-is-science/
>and still get offended if feminists (or anyone for that matter) makes any slight against males
We've been treated like men our entire lifes. Knowing how nightmarish it is to be one, we call anyone out who condemns men for fictions.
There's also how heterosexual MtF's like men, so it becomes a thing where feminists are trying to geld our studs.
At a certain point, you realize that you really like exaggerated sexual characteristics, and you and the feminists are fighting a war over the definition of the sexes; either men and women as sexist velvet ants, or feminist worker bees.
What bubble do you live in? Most MtFs are cucks who support feminism (aka their own destruction) because they believe it will earn them a place in the post-male world feminists are trying to create. I've never met more than 1 or 2 MtFs outside 4chan that weren't massive betas who unquestioningly support every feminist cause.
>>6359027
>Look, are you denying that men are mostly raised to be powerful, self-sufficient, and assertive while women are mostly raised to be nice and to not rock the boat?
That's not the definition of privilege and isn't the duty of society to correct
>>6365161
That is one major aspect of privilege as the word is used in academia. As to duty.. if society is responsible for this injustice then it is responsible for correcting it. Not all members of society perpetuate it so you can't blame all of the *individuals*. Just the *structure*.
>>6358831
Because we know about the shitty parts about being a guy because we've had to deal with them. They're easier to notice because you don't enjoy the good parts of being a man either.
So when feminists make stupid claims that are false, it's just about calling out bullshit. Simple as that. How can cis women know the true extents to which women and men are unequal? They've only sat on one side of the fence, whereas we've been on both sides and know much more accurately what is fucked up and what isn't.
>>6365186
>There are no trans feminists
wew lass
>>6358885
/thread
>>6364425
>truscum
>correct
You're an insecure babytrans
>>6365676
triggered?
Of course it'd seem that way on here. Meanwhile on tumblr a lot of trans women are feminists, granted it's not usually the same type of feminism cis women gravitate towards. You're asking a question that mostly applies to people here. Close out of 4chan, meet new people, and expand your worldview a bit.
>>6365808
Not that person but I feel like saying "triggered?" is the ultimate sign of having no argument and generally being unintelligent. You're not doing anything but proving how incapable you are of critical thought when you respond to people like that.
I'm sure you'll respond to me with some sort of "triggered" joke, but just know that you're not funny or clever in doing so. But hey, if sounding like an idiot is fine by you...
>>6365860
>being this triggered by a post on an anime imageboard
>>6365852
>meanwhile on tumblr
>tumblr
Transgender throws feminism out the window because it is the ultimate affront to feminism. It completely trivializes the unique nature of women's experiences and says that men can adopt the mantle of womanhood by behaving stereotypically feminine. It's the last great affront to women.
>>6358831
Just because I'm a woman I'm supposed to support about other women even when it's stupid pointless radical feminist crap that most people both male and female cringe at?
I think not.
>>6358831
>and still get offended if feminists (or anyone for that matter) makes any slight against males.
If anything being on 4chan and similar places (leddit) has made me more feminist after seeing the ridiculous attitudes and opinions towards women so many men seem to have all while constantly playing victim card.
>>6361172
>shilling
This needs to be updated to "cuck".
>>6365937
>im am le feminist because people on internet hurt my feelings
seems about right
>>6365937
Same.
Modern feminism is nothing more than a coping mechanism for unattractive dykes and hons.
>>6365959
It's not about my hurt feelings, it's about the constant butthurt from robots and anons.
You could make a whole new dead sea from scratch with all the salty virgins in here.
>>6365900
>Are you le triggered by my le masterfule traule
Are you posting under 7 fedoras?
>>6365979
no one is butthurt except feminazis
everyone else laughs at your dying breed
>>6365979
>butthurt robots and anons
But aren't you also butthurt? You must be if you call yourself a feminist and bitch about men all the time. You're doing the same things as them yet claim your views are justified.
Look both genders are full of assholes and bitches, you don't need to take sides and go to war against each other. That's stupid and a waste of time.
>>6365979
I'm with you. Nothing did more to strengthen my convictions than visiting /v/. I realized at a deep and fundamental level that anything which makes these creatures upset is bound to be good.
>>6358831
Because it infantilizes women and transwomen alike, making them seem as if they can't handle any sort of criticism or negativity whatsoever when in reality, they are humans and can/should be able to handle as much as anyone else.
>>6366013
>can/should be able to handle as much as anyone else.
Did you learn about feminism from /v/
>>6366016
D E N I A L
E
N
I
A
L
>>6366019
All I'm saying is that women shouldn't be treated like children, we shouldn't be shielding them from regular everyday things in life, such as feeling, god forbid, uncomfortable.
>>6365937
If anything spending time away from 4chan has galvanised my lack of sympathy for feminism after seeing the ridiculous attitudes and opinions presented at every turn by modern intersectional feminists all the while constantly playing the victim card.
Standpoint, poststructural, intersectional, etc. If you heard what these lunatics had to say on a day-to-day basis, you too would understand the importance of opposition to feminism.
There's expectations people have whenever you fall into a group. Stereotypes. As a transwoman I'm expected to be left-leaning, feminist, and to an extent to give up aspects that were 'masculine'. I'm none of these things and it honestly makes dealing with other LGBT people difficult and annoying. Then, I've not been all that swayed by emotions, even after transition. And, ultimately, feminism and political parties constantly appeal to emotions. Emotions are important for personal relations, not philosophy of politics or economics.
"You're not a real woman, you're not emotional like one!" And, that's right. I'll never be like a cis-woman or cis-man. I'm an awkward in-between and have experience of the slights of both, against both. And that's why I see feminism and the reactions against it as bullshit because they both ignore the greater picture that they are both oppressive to each other and instead just bitch and moan and find every opportunity to attack the other rather than to end the fighting and begin cooperation. The whole thing is exhausting and I'm tired of the bickering.
>>6366023
>muh bants
>proceeds to chimp out about videogame opinions
>>6359108
Ohh soo that's what they are doing when they campaign to close male abuse/rape centers.
>>6366041
This
I thought transwomen in some way like being 'treated' as a women, as in being discriminated against in the same way as a cis women would, would at least mean they accept them as a women.
>>6366174
>campaign to close
[citation needed]
>feminism
Why isn't meme dead yet? It's been a cancer on LGBT since its inception.
>all the feminazi cunts, libtards and nu-males in this thread
>>6359108
>feminism is about equality for both genders.
Stop. This vague definition isn't sufficient to define the movement.
If you asked Hillary or Trump or Bernie or Stalin if their movement was about equality between genders, they'd say yes.
Feminism is the study of Patriarchy theory. And it is your job, as a feminist, to dismantle this so-called "Patriarchy".
>>6358831
>Why do transgirls hate feminism so much?
Because they're the biggest opponents against trans rights, and have done the most damage against trans rights.
They removed trans care, trans clinics, suggested demonization of trans women, legalized/supported the right to discriminate trans women, and supported/tried to institutionalize conversion therapy. In the US.
Other countries didn't suffer as much, because feminism didn't have as strong of a grip (or it was already too backwards in the country). Still, in the "progressive" countries, feminsts argued against transsexualism, didn't want there to be right for trans people, as well as did "body checks" on women to make sure they weren't trans (groping them).
The modern feminism isn't actually that much better. They're attempting to deligitimize trans people by saying things such as "gender is a social construct", and uplifting "genderqueer" and "genderfluid" people, and trying to make cis-people-pretending-to-be-trans voices to be heard in maganizes/news/media, which actively speaks against what transsexualism is.
>I've noticed that transwomen hold an almost r9k-level grudge against cis women
Some of the repressers and hons do, simply because they'll never live as women.
male socialization
/thread
>>6358831
>>6367194
HB2 and the law in Mississippi and the one they tried passing in Kentucky exist thanks to Radfems.
Radfems wrote to the GOP congressmen. The one in Nc even claimed some Radfem friend helped give him advice in how passing laws banning gays from ever filing suits and banning all Antidiscrimination laws would protect women from all those evil rapey faggs. They own the law, every single one of its provisions screwing over lg&t.
Radfems are now threatening anyone, business employees, journalists or even dopey women who are critical of the laws. They're writing for the same ADF that's called for killing gays. They're indistinguishable from the rest of the far right.
Feminist ideas might have been good, nobody should ever be mistreated for who they are, what but it's become a fundamentalist religion dedicated to exterminating fags and anyone who's different in any way or doesn't live up to its standards. An extreme version of what happened to Christianity.
Their working with congressmen, antigay groups and targeting law opponents makes that clear. You'd be just as much an idiot to back Radfems if you're gay or Trans when they want to legislate you out of existence as you would to work for the FRC. Both groups now even work together.
>>6367194
Oh hey, so why did you push laws in Miss and NC that explicitly ban gays from ever being able to file suit? It bans all antidiscrimination laws for gays and lesbians too.
Why do you hate gays and lesbians?
>>6365676
Gender roles ARE a social construct. But gender itself is not.
Because the whole idea that men can be women is anti-feminist and trivializes women and their unique experiences.
This chick gets it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPjZyshAyh0
>>6367963
Keep stalking and rape threatening women who make you look dumb
>>6367039
This.
Fems and especially radfems are cancer. We need more humanism and egalitarianism.
Literally just because the lesbian feminists don't want to fuck trannies and denying sex is worse than death for them, didn't you know?
>>6368248
Keep parroting lies, stalker. How many poor girls did you harass today?
Just cause they don't agree with your ideology doesn't mean you should follow them to work
>>6364591
>Feminism wants to toss traditional femininity in the trash, while MtF's want to become it's exemplars and vanguard.
This. Transwomen think that being a woman is only wearing dresses and make up. They claim to hate gender-roles, but they only enforce them instead.
>>6358831
They've lived as men. They know men aren't the demonic oppressors feminism make them out to be. So they reject feminism.
>>6368377
It was a normal woman they mistook for trans. Rads got mad and death threatened her for it.
Thanks for admitting you stalk anyone with a V, creep.
>if genders go to hell
You get femboys and other guys who can look as girly as they want cause body mod won't be taboo or controlled. And they can do it while acting as boyish and doing as much guy stuff as they want.
Blurred lines and you won't be able to tell who's who in a word where everyone can do body mod if they want.
>>6358831
I've had the polar opposite experience with transgirls, the most hardcore radfems I know are MtF
>>6358841
>Modern feminism
>implying feminism was ever good
>>6360125
>Feminism =/= Egalitarianism =/= MRA
Egalitarianism and the MRM are good, feminism is bad.
t. transgirl
>>6358831
Feminists want to deconstruct gender.
Trannies reinforce it.
>>6358831
Because they know what it's like to be on the other side of feminazi scorn.
/thread
>>6359541
I kinda feel like this, that I don't like the trans embrace of gender stereotypes, but I don't exactly blame trans people for that, they're just pretty much forced to by greater society, and now they're being used as a tool against respect for women. Plus i'm not comfortable with the idea of a a trans mtf taking the place of a woman in sports or a similar area, because women, real women, fought hard for that, and for a man in bad drag to just come and take that away from a real woman is beyond insulting
also
>cotton ceiling
that was what turned me against transsexualism
>>6358841
FPBP
Shit, I lost the old video I had where they interviewed a few feminists and they claimed that since M to F started off being Male, that their "male privileged" carried on through transitioning and that they were not really Women.
Basically TERF feminism.
>>6370552
Boys on drugs aren't the same things as ape men in wigs. I don't really care for athletics or competing with girls, but even if I were, I wouldn't have any more strength than a female with similar height and lean body mass. There wouldn't be any bone or muscle advantage after years of chemical castration, never mind the low blood pressure sidefects. The studies all back this.
>cotton ceiling
You aren't very bright if you go captain ahab cause a handful of troll posts and other strawmen.
And I've seen just as much creepy behavior from lesbians and political lesbians so that doesn't count for much.
Think what you said over, it doesn't make sense.
>>6365674
>two thousand sixteen ano domini
>Thinking you can be trans without dysphoria
>equating gender expression to gender identity
>perpetuating the idea that transition ISN'T a medical necessity
Go back to tumblr, please.
Because they're still more intelligent than women.
I just want tits, have no/light body hair, and to be called she...
>>6361252
Did I say that in your oversensitive delusions? Because I certainly didn't say it back in reality.
Okay so this could be a tad off topic considering I am a transman but I hate feminism for the same reason as my transwomen friends:
TERFS
Not all feminists are terfs, and although their sjw counterparts can be worse its terfs specifically, such as my mother, who have turned me off from the movement as a whole
Because feminist ultimately suffer from penis envy, while TG ultimately suffer from gender dysmorphia
MtF people categorically fetishize womanhood. They make femininity an status to be acquired, not experienced. So guess what happens when women themselves try to get rid of everything that could define "classical womanhood" (the same womanhood current transgirls grew up looking up to) by the means of a third wave revolution? Of course, transgirls radicalize.
This is why feminism needs to be aware of them, their interests lay with the patriarchy.
>>6358850
deeply desiring being women isn't because of privilege, that would br a retarded reason to transition
it's because of innate gender identity which has a largely biological basis
i hate feminism because i want actual equality in all areas of society (not just gender), and feminism actively fights that by campaigning for women to hold greater rights than others
>>6365945
t b h should really just add another row,
>cuck
>cishet scum (or similar)
>>6368554
>You get femboys and other guys who can look as girly as they want
This is the real answer, but radshits want everyone to have the same masculine haircut and wear the same comfortable, earth tone Star Trek onesie. You can't abolish all forms of gender. Even gays do gender. Masc and Fem, Femme and Butch. Its all gender roles. Maybe a lot of the cultural significance behind them can be erased or mitigated. I'm all for that. But its literally retarded to believe that a men and women would be exactly the same if only it weren't for the evil patriarchy. What is someone with beliefs like that even doing on a mongolian cave painting forum known for being opposed to their worldviews? Lol.
>>6365197
I never said that, there are stupid trans people too.
>>6358831
Most people online are young and uneducated and don't understand that feminism arose in the context of women legally not having certain rights, such as voting rights.
Of course, many "feminists" aren't aware of this either, and have forgotten the true purpose of feminism.
If they hadn't, they would focus instead on women from the third world who lack such rights.
Really both feminists and anti-feminists haven't the slightest clue about anything and talk about it only to waste their time and vent their anger at whichever group they pick out of a hat because they have nothing better to do.
Gender essentialism: some people give a shit about what gender they are and some don't. Many people could wake up tomorrow with the opposite gender and literally not give a shit except for learning a few things. For others it would be a big deal. It totally depends on the person, that's the truth.
This is exactly why special little snowflakes are popping up on tumblr like cockroaches. Oh, I'm a girl, but I want to be a computer engineer and fuck other girls and life weights and I hate make-up an dresses, that makes me a "demi-girl," right? No, it makes you a girl, who like most girls and most boys does some things or many things that people today don't think fit whatever their personal idea of traditional gender roles (which change over time) is. That's it. Not special.
TERF here.
I'd rather you hate feminism than call yourselves feminist. At least the former is honest.
>>6371027
>but even if I were, I wouldn't have any more strength than a female with similar height and lean body mass.
You must be retarded to think that some pills taken during/after puberty would completely negate the fact that an average male has twice the upper body strength of that of an average female. A skinny fat dude can still easily beat a reasonably fit girl in an arm wrestling match. Sorry tranny but your body will never be the body of a real woman.
>>6384255
Eh, I don't think you should be trying to practice medicine, pol. Leave that to people who can write studies.
Read Miller's study. The average male has about a third more muscle strength and that's simply cause they have more test induced muscle bulk. That isn't gonna hold with a skinny castrated borderline anorexic twink.
There's no magical essence making women weaklings, it all just comes down to how much muscle and bone bulk they can build and that's a mix of exercise and hormones.
So nah, any serious female athlete with comparable height and lean body mass would have an edge in both muscle and bone mass. I wouldn't be able to compete.
You've got to drop the new age mystical stuff and look at the medicine. Shouting arbitrary numbers just makes you look dumb.
>>6384255
>your body will never be the body of a real woman
Also, Femgenfag, so I don't think of myself as a real girl or want to be one.
You've got to think better with your insults.
>>6384326
>so I don't think of myself as a real girl or want to be one.
So don't fucking say you should be allowed to compete in women's sports. That was the point of this argument you halfwit
>>6384316
>The average male has about a third more muscle strength
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8477683
>52% and 66% as strong as the men in the upper and lower body respectively.
>Eh, I don't think you should be trying to practice medicine, pol. Leave that to people who can write studies.
lol how ironic. There are people outside of /pol/ who still don't like trannies, shocking as that may sound. You're probably closer to /pol/, viewpoint wise, than me.
>>6384363
I don't, why would I ever when I think of myself as a guy? you're arguments were dumb so I just tried to help.
Did you see what he wrote? It all comes down to muscle bulk. Men can just develop it more easily cause of testosterone. That doesn't hold if you're a castrsted boy.
So yeah, it's entirely a lean body mass issue and a woman with comparable lean mass in my case would have comparable strength. There isn't any magical essence that makes women inferior beings, no matter how much you believe that.
>>6384255
It does completely negate it.
Are you gonna argue that some 90 year old sedetary male is gonna be as strong as a 20 year olrd average guy?
>>6384363
You really shouldn't try to practice medicine, you're retarded, and you're failing at stuff you should've learned in the early stages of high school.
>>6358831
Second wave feminism taught that all femininity was performance, and that any man demonstrating femininity was a dubious performer at best. It's because feminism is still largely anti femme.
>>6360284
Oh, please. As evidenced right in this fucking post, every time a woman so much as thinks "wow, maybe I was treated like shit because of my gender," she gets shouted down with "what about the men holy shit die feminazi" or "yea right women are liars and thieves LOL."
These days even in tumblr hug boxes women are flooded with "but what about the TRANS women?!?! don't talk about your problems it TRIGGERS them!!!"
Just stop posting. You have no idea what you're talking about.
>>6358831
Because feminism is trash, poison, cancer? A menace to society? Need I go on?
Being in a feminist isn't seen as being very feminine in context of "I want to be an anime girl" type of hyperfeminity a lot of them strive for.
Feminism was what tore the first rifts in the LGBT community.
>>6384536
>You really shouldn't try to practice medicine, you're retarded, and you're failing at stuff you should've learned in the early stages of high school.
Ran out of arguments tranny?
