So what have trans-exclusionary radical feminists got right and what they got wrong?
First of all there are many things about their ideology I agree with and that Blanchard dichotomy is real but is more applicable in cases where previous sexual abuse took place or where fetishism was the driving force to transition because they conflate being a woman with dumb submissiveness. Also I think Blanchardism is an unrelated phenomenon that may be co-morbid to transsexualism instead of being the definitive compound of transsexualism.
However "terfs" are naive to think that once we smash the binary sex system deep seated in our Western society that people will cease to be transgender. It may discourage fetishists but not the body dysphoriacs which "Terfs" heavily ignore and instead focus on ugly masculine transbian hons. Honestly, "Terfs" are yet to feature a passable straight transwoman on their blogs. But it's no coincidence that most "trans" activists tend to be hons who have a history of spouse abuse or that they are even sex offenders. For this I applaud Cathy Brennan for doxxing every pervy hon (inb4 the she never doxed anyone ever meme) helping to set the record straight.
Also it's beyond my comprehension to even see a feud between "Terfs" and trannies when both "Terfs" and trans activists subscribe to the essentialist view of sex, it's like, perhaps, "Terfs" aren't that interested in open discourse but merely want to take a shot at ugly pervy masculine hons then use it to disprove transsexualism as a whole? Confirmation bias much?
What is YOUR opinion on trans-exclusionary radical feminism?
>>6181072
They got nothing right, and everything wrong.
>what they've got right
That we should throw gender roles out the window and prevent impressionable teens from thinking they're trans solely on the basis of "I like boy/girl things so I must be a boy/girl!"
>what they've got wrong
A fundamental misunderstanding of dysphoria and how it works.
Using outlier predators who happen to be trans to say "all trannies are like this predatory man"
Refusal to listen to opinions that conflict with theirs
Denial of misogyny faced by passing trans women
>>6181072
The whole basis of the blanchard dichotomy is it being a dichotomy that includes all tranasexuals, you're either homosexual transexual or agp.
You can't take parts of it and disregard the rest without doing research on the already present data or entirely new research that shows support for your hypothesis.
>>6181197
Seconding this.
Basically, they're either stupid or sexist. Sometimes stupidly sexist.
>>6181072
https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2016/03/24/north-carolina-pushes-back-against-transgender-mandate-to-eliminate-sex-based-protections-for-women-and-girls/#comments
Uh, you do realize that site is working with the ADF to prop up HB2, and they're going as far as to coordinate the harassment of companies and journalists who dare criticize the law. Should read their echo chamber there.
And just to keep things in mind, they aren't jus parroting far right predator myths, but they're also aggressively pushing for a law that stripped gays or the right to sue in court if whoever robbed from them claims it was cause they were gay.
These people, they're willing to work with the God hates data crowd and push a law that bans any gay/lesbian or antidiscrimination and screw over all of bgt for the sake of their vendetta. Does that seem reasonable?
>>6181380
>>6181072
And by the way in case if you're wondering, the bathroom predator myth they're using to push a law that screwed over all the gay, lesbian and trans population in that state if obviously fake. Every law enforcement and violence against women group said its not just fake but the laws they want worsen it. http://endsexualviolence.org/files/NTFNationalConsensusStmtTransAccessWithSignatories.pdf
Meanwhile, they say to hell with the VAW groups who help battered women, say they're in on conspiracy and boast about spending forty hours a week lobbying congressmen, bullying journalists and doing all they can to save the anti gay laws. That seem reasonable?
>>6181380
It's funny in a sad way because for some reason bigots think trannies look like butch lesbians/women so they're the ones that have been harassed and kicked out of bathrooms.
>>6181380
>God hates data
fags, autocorrect
>>6181380
>a law that stripped gays or the right to sue in court if whoever robbed from them claims it was cause they were gay
Not just gay people; black, jewish, female, no one can sue for discrimination in the state court.
It obviously wont hold up in court but these things take time to sort out and politicians are still pushing hard on the fear-mongering "protect muh wimminz from bathroom predators" part to distract from the other stuff like banning local governments raising the minimum wage.
>>6181459
Works either way tbqh.
i agree somewhat with the blanchard theory, but i belive that there are 3 categories of transexuals. yes cases of homosexual and agp transexuals can be observed when it comes to mtfs, but what about dysphoric transexuals that have a legitimate psychological mismatch with the genetic sex of their body.
i agree with the abolishmebt of enforced gender roles, but genderroles and a sense of what is male and what is female will always exist as long as xx and xy, as well as testosterone and estrogen exist. men and women are different and it comes down to biology. but its okay that they are different, just as long as both parties have equal rights. with is what alot of these terf feminists are out of touch with.
>>6181461
Funny thing is it lead to a backlash massive political and economic damage and weirdly enough more public sympathy for trans, so it's funny to watch them go from celebrating the Mississippi and Carolina laws as a dream achieved to ripping up anyone who dares criticize them and blaming the liberal media. It's like the craziest if the alt right.
They're idiots. They say we should throw away gender as a whole, but they viciously enforce sex segregated spaces, which only strengthens the gender binary and limits the expression of gender nonconforming women. They say gender stereotypes are wrong, but they're very quick to cherrypick anecdotes and use them to demonize trans women as predatory men. Furthermore, they stereotype every AMAB person as a latent rapist with male privilege. Their primary basis of excluding trans women from public accommodations hinges on the notion that every male is an inherent threat to women's safety. They also play directly into the hands of socially conservative misogynistics that seek to infantilize women and use them to spread fear and hatred of LGBT people.
They can fuck right off.
>>6181476
You can't really "agree somewhat", the whole idea of blanchard's theory is that there's the dichotomy of causes of dysphoria for all trannies, you're either a homosexual transsexual or agp.
>what about dysphoric transsexuals that have a legitimate psychological mismatch with the genetic sex of their body
He would describe them as either homosexual transsexual or agp, that's the whole idea.
>>6181476
> 3 categories of transexuals
Genuinely curious about what you think given that I'm not actually trans and don't know this stuff
>>6181494
Even funnier is that conservatives pushing for these laws and fighting for them up the courts to keep it going and in the news for short term gains of base support and distraction from political manipulations will probably eventually lead to a legal decision for the whole country like with gay marriage and based on all legal precedent it will probably solidify anti-discrimination including trans people under sexual discrimination.
>>6181197
This. Couldn't be summarized more elegantly.
>>6181072
The ugly masculine hon transactivists is ironic, because ugly masculine dykes have played a huge role in feminist activism.
>>6181205
The problem with Blanchardism is that its a simple bigoted answer to something that may be more complex. Even if there is issues with the research, where there's smoke there's fire. One only has to look at the hon brigade, and even the younger, girlier agptrans can seem fetishistic at times. So muh fetish is super simple, and paints agptrans as deviants. Technically its an orientation, most terfs and cuckservatives are too retarded to even get that right.
>>6181380
Holy shit terfs are basically anti-trans activists.
Think of the damage their doing to impressionable teens. They'll make biased or false claims about transistion. Trutrans is told to get over his internalized homophobia. AGPtrans is told he's a monster and only gets shown the worst of his kind. FtMs are told never to transistion, that their only trans because patriarchy has made them hate themselves.
>>6181677
>One only has to look at the hon brigade, and even the younger, girlier agptrans can seem fetishistic at times
"Just look at them!" is not a theory, you need to actually design methodology and do research to find support for your hypothesis.
The existing diagnostics for agp show huge proportions in cis women that have been tested too so either the methodology is worthless or it's not actually a tranny thing but just a human sexuality thing. No one has been able to prove that it's anything but pathologizing sexual expression in a group that is little understood and lacks wide acceptance making them a more acceptable target. A lot of "transphobia" is actually sexism or homophobia projected on a more acceptable target, many even suspect that blanchard's work was an attempt at a back-door to getting homosexuality classified as a mental illness again by showing trans people as a type of super-gay.
There's also no methodology to separate homosexual transexuals from "normal" trans people because the theory doesn't allow for "normal", you're either homosexual transexual or you're agp if you don't fit into homosexual transexual.
I agree with most of what they say. But I think they take their biological essentialism too far. Will I always be male? Yes I will always have XY chromosomes, I will be male. Can I be a woman? I think living as a woman and being accepted (ie. pass well) as a woman in society means I am a woman. A woman with experiences as a boy that is also male, but still a woman cause thats what I am now and how others see me.
They would say I'm not because "you don't have XX" which doesn't matter no one can see your chromosomes, or "you didn't grow up as a girl/socialization" but these things are often subjective and we all have different social circumstances so its a shakey line of thought to say "you aren't a woman because you didn't grow up as a little girl". There isn't a universal little girl experience that all woman had. Besides biological shit that isn't huge deal in reality.
>>6181677
Almost as much damage as HRT and genital mutilation
>>6181794
tbqh the whole "xy=male" is a simplified understanding of sexual expression and any definition of female that terfs try to use to exclude trans people inevitably excludes other people that they consider "real women".
>>6181805
Maybe in the delusional world of your feels, all the actual research and statistics show transition to be the best available treatment for gender dysphoria and extremely effective at that.
>>6181820
>in the delusional world of your feels
>advocating harmful "treatments" in pursuit of alleviating feels
>>6181072
The TERF philosophy doesn't make a distinction between "straight" and "lesbian" MtF trannies. Cathy Brennan doesn't care and makes things up all the time. It seriously triggers my spidey senses for bullshit when I read most TERF blog posts.
Second point is that only hon-like communities such as /mtfg/ and Anne Lawrence make a distinctive link between sexual orientation and passing. Research that has been posted before shows that "straight" transsexuals are also fetishistic and use their penis in sex with other men. Blanchard was aware of this too when he conducted his clinical surveys, for this he explained that some autogynophiles wish to have a man to validate their femininity. Yet what he did not touch on much was that this group also includes MtF that previously identified as gay men.
It's quick for people to talk about the situation like all the science has been done, and all the results are in. As if we just have to sort through them and figure out the answers. But the truth is that anything which comes down to sex and gender related behaviors is very complicated and requires loads of nuance. There isn't a behavior you can adopt to rewrite your internal brain makeup, nor does fucking a person of either sex authenticate your gender in any possible way.
>>6181826
Treatments aren't harmful just because they hurt your feels anon.
Medicine is about what gives the best results.
I sometimes wonder about the mental gymnastics TERFs must do to dissociate the fact that they have the exact same views as evangelical extremists. The evangelicals are all about the penis/vag being present or not, or fall back on chromosomes sometimes. TERFs start at chromosomes and fall back on female victimhood. They practically take pride in any negative female experiences they had growing up, like it's a fucking badge of honor and proof of their womanhood that their creepy uncle diddled them when they were 12. If you weren't diddled, you ain't no woman!
>>6181794
The whole inflammatory "you will never be a woman, mr. dudebro sir" response you see from Cathy and the gang is mostly targeted at delusional dudes who often say inflammatory shit themselves like "my penis is a female organ."
/lgbt/ should raid /r/GenderCritical lol
>>6181909
It's directed at everyone. If you ever read any of their shit you would know. An MtF is either a rapist or a gay man, an FtM is either a self loathing traitor or wayward fawn that needs guidance.
>>6181880
>implying gendertrender doesn't feature young hons
>implying being young automatically makes you feminine
if anything most of hons they talk about nowadays are all twenty-something mascara-wearing virile dudes involved in social justice bullshit
they even covered chris chan lol
>>6181948
What's the point? Terfs sabotage themselves all on their own.
Their whole movement is grounded in hypocrisy
>Women are strong and equal to men
>But trans women are intimidating women
>Gender doesn't really exis
>But trans women are trying to steal the female identity
>>6181832
This might be a dumb question but is Anne Lawrence AFAB? From quick research I found she identifies as agp trans but I can't find anything about her being born male.
>>6182006
Nope, married and divorced, ex disbarred gynecologist, transitioned in forties and asserts all trutrans are agp. She runs a trans clinic and hits on her patients, or so thy say. She's regarded as the primary champion of Blanchard's typology, turning it into a full fledged theory of perversion.
They're right on a lot of things. Trans people have regressive views of gender and a lot of trans women in particular really are just beta males without dysphoria or fetishizing crossdressers. Trans people promote gender stereotypes often in order to defend their claim of being the opposite gender (I knew I was meant to be ____ because I fit ______ stereotype). They deserve to be attacked for that, and since it's women who are mostly harmed by it, it makes sense that cis women are the ones doing most of the attacking. Male and female brains aren't even that different, according to science: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/12/01/brains-arent-actually-male-or-female-new-study-suggests/
>>6181997
Equal doesn't mean the same bruv
>>6181961
>implying you understood what I posted
So you agree with me on the first part. Do you understand what the word conflate means? It doesn't sound like you do.
>>6181948
They simply have their retarded opinion.
Raiding them wouldn't change their opinion, it'd only reinforce their opinion.
Not everyone is a retarded asshole SJW that wants to harass everyone that doesn't agree with them.
>>6182042
At what point must a trans woman take more responsibility than a cis woman to reject stereotypes and female targeted goods, services, and media? An ounce of truth can make an absurd philosophy seem right when it's wrong.
>>6181197
This is perfect.
>>6181072
>So what have trans-exclusionary radical feminists got right
Nope
>>6181072
This whole movement is dumb. If someone wants to be female how is it going to affect your life if they go ahead with it? TERFism is ironically making sure that people stay in separate defined boxes as opposed to throwing them out of the window
Anyway i am not going to make my life choices on the say of a bunch of smelly bull dykes.
>>6182169
>Sure because sexual dimorphism is just a patriarchial fantasy amirite?
I'm just telling you what an analysis of major studies done on the topic tells us, bruh. Maybe our brains adjust differently over time to accommodate physical differences and societal roles, but it's largely not inherent.
>>6182169
Well there is that one study that terfs and other anti-trans people misunderstand and claim proves there's no such thing as neurological sexual dimorphism.
The trouble being that the study focuses on a region of the brain that was already understood to not be dimorphic and doesn't look at or say anything about the regions that have been associated with sexual dimporism or trans neurological differences.
>>6182242
>Maybe our brains adjust differently over time to accommodate physical differences and societal roles, but it's largely not inherent.
Brain plasticity is understood to be a thing but it doesn't mean that the brain is completely mutable and subject to societal influence, there are regions and structures that are fixed and non-plastic past certain points in neurological development and could be said to be "inherent".
>>6182042
You're kinda dumb, the actual study says neuro dimorphism is on a continuum, besides masculine and feminine, you also have people who are in between. That just legitimizes femboys and people like them.
In utero hormones affecting development is a thing, the only thing is that not all women are feminine and not everyone is wholey masculine or feminine.
>>6182307
>fixed and non-plastic past certain points in neurological development
>past certain points in development
>>6182450
The point in development relevant to the structures associated with trannies being around the time you're in the womb, after that it's set.
>>6181826
>>6181805
Funny how someone without any medical education like you thinks he knows better than every medical organization.
>>6182445
Brain development in utero certainly can make people act more stereotypically "masculine" and "feminine".
The question here is whether that translating into actually wanting to switch to the opposite gender is also the result of biology or if that gender-nonconforming individual strongly feeling that they would fit into society better as the opposite gender to the point of sometimes hating their body is caused by strong exposure to societal gender stereotyping.
>>6181072
You don't need fake before and after photos to have a good laugh...
>>6182602
And the biomedical studies ad biomarker studies all clearly point to it being in utero. It's something like body dysmorphia. Why would I emasculate my body when society says you aren't supposed to do that if I wasn't used to my body being neotenous.
>>6181072
They're right on several basic levels.
1. If sex is a social construct like tumblr trans say it is: Why redefine it? If you redefine sex, you redefine sexism. What feminist would want that?
2. If sex is real, and "brain sex" isn't: Dick is male and trans women are not women. Addition: Brain sex is another type of sex: still doesn't make a dick female. MTFs are still men, or intersex. Not female.
3. Patriarchy built transition (the basic argument of Raymond's The Transsexual Empire"): Obviously true. Men run the government and science behind transition, and in general. Men made trans women, invented GRS, designed the transition process, etc, etc. The founders of trans related "medical care" were dudes. To fit gender-deviant people into boxes, men created transition, even though many modern trans people don't actually want to invert their dicks or graft arm skin into a penis. It's men that invented the very idea that a man could become a woman.
4. Trans women are destroying women's spaces, movement, etc: True, but it also extends to non-binaries and trans men going to women's colleges and refusing to leave, or trans women harassing lesbians about not liking penis... I think Raymond made a fair prediction.
>"Terfs" are yet to feature a passable straight transwoman on their blogs.
Gigi Gorgeous has shown up on "TERF" blogs for being a very arrogant douchebag.
The couple things I disagree with them on is supporting trans men and FAAB non-binaries like they're honorary women, advocating gender abolition (unless it's in the form of getting rid of masculinity and femininity), and that changing your body is mutilation. I think TERFs are actually extremely overblown, and they get the hate they do mostly because people seem to think women should be nicer.
>>6181909
I hate this shit, but it's technically true. If transwomen are a type of women, then women can have penises. Still it sounds retarded to normies.
>tfw cute passable MtF in 2040s
>women no longer scared of feminine penises in showers/change rooms
>they tend to stare and giggle instead
>tfw female chaser follows you out of change room
>>6181805
>>6181826
See this is the problem with trans critical people. The entire western medical system is onboard with transistion. Even non-western countries have trans medicine. You'd think there would be some nations TERFing out and raising serious concerns about it.
Pseudo TERF site 4thwavenow is only against early transition, they don't say a peep about adult transitioners. That's probably the only reason Blanchard retweets it, early transition is the only issue that's even up for debate. Attacking transgenderism as a whole makes you look retarded. That's fundie/terf/pol territory.
>tfw fundies finally see the light and back off on transhate.
>cuckservatives no longer give a shit about muh trans
>neonazis still cool with TERFs but upset that they won't name the jew
>have fun TERFs
>>6182685
>implying brain sex isn't real and that even if it is it doesn't mean anything
>implying science and medicine you don't like can be disregarded "because patriarchy"
>implying including trannies is "destroying women's spaces, movement, etc"
So you're a terf trying to create the illusion of support by pretending to be "just an innocent bystander with some questions and concerns" who agrees with terfs, so /pol/-tier tactics.
>>6181197
I'll join in.
>3. Patriarchy built transition (the basic >argument of Raymond's The Transsexual >Empire"): Obviously true. Men run the >government and science behind transition, >and in general. Men made trans women, >invented GRS, designed the transition >process, etc, etc. The founders of trans >related "medical care" were dudes. To fit >gender-deviant people into boxes, men >created transition, even though many modern >trans people don't actually want to invert their >dicks or graft arm skin into a penis. It's men >that invented the very idea that a man could >become a woman.
This is technically true but radfems are myopic. Men invented transition to relieve dysphoria. If it was simply about fitting people into boxes, then convicted homosexuals would of been forced to undergo HRT and have SRS. They did chemically castrate gays at one point, but they stopped doing that a long time ago.
Also straight crossdressers were frowned upon for transition originally, it would be more socially acceptable for them to pass as female, but the evil patriarchy said nope.
>>6182685
You're wrong about women's spaces http://endsexualviolence.org/files/NTFNationalConsensusStmtTransAccessWithSignatories.pdf
And the antigay laws they passed are destroying the likelyhood of gays and lesbians. Look at their site in >>6181380
they're willing to accept the antigay laws for the sake of their grudge, they harass female journalists who criticize their law and harass businesses that think antigay laws are bad.
>>6182999
But "Brain sex" is neurosexist :^)
No seriously I heard that one before, from tumblr-trans people, one of them being the author of "Assigned Male"
>>6182612
who is this archetypal DC comics supervillain?
They're unscrupulous conservative Christian straight women who are trying to find an "in" into the liberal side of politics and business, while still maintaining their conservative Christian behavior. They just lie about it.
"Buhhh, porn isn't allowed!"
"Buhhh, no masturbating!"
"Buhhh, at least ISIS isn't a bunch of misogynistic gay men!"
"Buhhh, abortion is wrong!"
"Buhhh, abstinence before marriage!"
They don't do anything to even cover up the fact that they're conservative Christians, except that when they're compared to conservative Christians, they say, "How dare you?" Which is exactly how conservative Christians respond too.
>>6182445
>That just legitimizes femboys and people like them.
and basically also tomboys and, excuse my french, "non-binary people"
things would be much easier if male transsexuals referred to themselves as "gender non-conforming men" or even "third gender" than saying they are the opposite sex but noo they have to clutch to their ladybrains™ and girltinklers™ when this was clearly debunked
>>6183398
Geez you're really not getting how wrong you are, huh? Are you just trolling now?
>>6182999
who said anything about trannies?
transbians a.k.a. straight men playing dressup are clearly destroying women's spaces and the movement and terfs do a great job at outing them. it's no coincidence they also make up the most trans "activists" who are loud and scream TRANSMISOGYNY at women who want nothing to do with them or their dicks
it's sad you can't see it and instead lash out at that poster calling them a poltard/terfie in a desperate attempt to shut them down
>>6183489
>who said anything about trannies?
>in a thread about trans-exclusionary radical feminists
u wot
>>6183486
are you going to sit there and only throw snarky jibs at me with a condescending grin on your face? let's assume for a moment brains are plastic which is the cause behind diverse gender presentations, sure okay, hey i have no problem with that view. guess what is not plastic and actually set in stone and cannot be changed? your body
>b-but muh star trek vision of gene manipulation!
sorry but you will always be [your birth sex] until that happens, bro
>>6183489
If the transbian does HRT, are they still a straight man playing dressup? I can agree that attraction is not a choice, so trans "activists" should chill.
>>6183398
>clutch to their ladybrains™ and girltinklers™ when this was clearly debunked
Neurological dimorphism is fact no matter how much you want to deny it, I don't think there's anything about "girltinklers" that needs debunking.
>>6183489
Actually, most of the creepier old hons claim to be straight. They're men like Yardley who despite having been a perv as a man now go into women's spaces and harras the fuck out of them.
And they also claim that teenagers and kids half their age are fakes playing dress up.
It's pretty much true, just about every unpassable old hon claims they're true and that everyone younger than them is a fetishist. You oddly enough talk like them.
>>6183489
Your bait is shitty and relies on memes too exclusive to internet shitholes like here, even blanchard said that agp and homosexual transsexuals are equally legitimate in their need to transition and terfs think all trannies are men invading female spaces regardless of orientation.
>>6183398
>third gender
Third sex is more acurate, medical intervention, especially if you were relatively young when you got it and a runt means you don't have the same phenotype as grown men and women.
Can we go with that lablel cause that'd cool? I mean I'm not actually trans but I bet a whole lot of people who are usually shoehorned into the usual narrative and all of the depersonalizing things doctors put them through would much rather the individualist route.
>gender non-conforming men
That doesn't make sense when the condition is driven by body dysmorphia and people have altered their bodies to not be the same as men.
>clearly debunked
It wasn't though, in utero levels can push people solidly to one end of a the continuum or another, that's just simple biology and transcription. What's true is that a great many people are somewhere in the middle.
See? We've actually got a lot we can agree on if we just talk it out.
>>6183618
I suspect alot of cis lesbians would be cool having a dick to use on their partner. So being into penetrating women is actually plausible for a translesbian.
>>6183581
>are you going to sit there and only throw snarky jibs at me with a condescending grin on your face?
You can't see their face. You are literally delusional if you think you can.
Brain plasticity exists but it doesn't mean the brain is completely mutable to social influence, different structures and regions are set and non-plastic past certain points.
The body is also actually plastic to various degrees, your brain is in fact part of your body and how your body is structured is largely based on hormones.
I'm honestly not sure if this is supposed to be bad trolling to portray anti-trans activists as idiots or scincere ignorance
>>6183688
Yup, transwomen are quite unique. Have penises, no menstrual cycle, no pregnancies, no menopause yet full of estrogen.
>>6181808
No its not.. I understand genetics just fine. XY = male is not too simplified, its reality. Intersex is rare.
>>6181072
Hey guise, TERF here, ama :^)
My personal belief is that anyone can do anything to their bodies for whatever reason as long as they are an adult who can take responsibility for their own decisions.
I also believe that men are adult male humans and have male sex organs and women are adult female humans and have female sex organs. Anyone else biologically in-between are intersex individuals. Wearing a dress or grafting a "penis" onto your crotch doesn't change that. The sooner you accept this, the easier your life will be.
>Also it's beyond my comprehension to even see a feud between "Terfs" and trannies when both "Terfs" and trans activists subscribe to the essentialist view of sex
The difference is that trannies want to take away the biological aspect of sex. They want it to be a feeling or a hypothetical part of your brain that is not supported by science.
Protip: Trannies do not have "female" brains, or they would diagnose GID with mri scans.
feminism is cancer
>>6183652
LOL, transbians only recently found a way to evade their undesirable fetishist status by slapping on more neutral labels or re-appropriating the old ones like "transkids" or "homosexual transsexuals"
too bad they are dumb and blind not to realize people can see right through them
>>6183652
But being a lying hateful and hurtful bitch who molests complete strangers in public is the very essence of being a woman.
>>6183618
Neurological dimorphism is hardly a fact but merely an illiterate assumption you push on a Saami erotic teapot art internet forum without knowing any better you dense fuck. Most people you think they are 100% men or women brain-wise tend to be more in the middle and the rest of the jazz is social conditioning that fooled you into seeing sexes with black-and-white lenses. It's rare to find a predominately masculine/feminine brain and that's a fact.
Look up the brain plasticity then kill yourself for wasting my time explaining this to you you troll.
>>6187686
no, feminism has cancer. there is a big chunk of it that is so right that it seems obvious and pointless right now and we take for granted, then you have this weird methastasis that doesn't help anyone.
>>6181072
That's some gr8 b8 m8, I r8 8/8
Sincerely,
N8
>>6187840
I doubt it ever helped anyone
>>6187827
Nah, most people are pretty close to one of the archetypes or another .
A lot of people and that includes normal women can be in the middle or even masculine and vice versa but it's very clear that steroids in utero have life long effects on the type of development you get.
Look at the molecular research the cohenists have done with rora and other developmental genes. People being in the middle and it being a continuum doesn't negate that it's dysmorphic and that people can end up in one of the extreme ends.
>>6187627
Medical Transition alters biology pretty significantly, steroids determine everything from blood chemistry to transcript to histology.
So I'm sure we can agree that people who have medically transitioned are in your 'intersex' box, right? See? We've got a lot of common ground.
>>6187627
Nobody wants to take the biological aspect away. The whole point of transition is to alter the biological aspect as much as possible
>>6187686
kek
eliot please refrain from posting in random /lgbt/ threads you only want to shit up with your presence. also stop stealing your mom's dresses already you crossdressing faggot
>>6187909
>So I'm sure we can agree that people who have medically transitioned are in your 'intersex' box, right?
I would still put them under a subgroup of their original sex. Intersex condition is something you are born with, not artificially created. Plus, the medical effects of those hormones are partially reversible.
>>6187905
Then you are objectively wrong.
>>6187924
>The whole point of transition is to alter the biological aspect
That depends on the transition. Please do not deny that there are members of the trans community who do not medically transition.
Even so, there is a limit to the kind of results produced by a medical transition. It is not possible for trans women to become pregnant or trans men to father children. It is not even possible for them to have something that vaguely resembles the reproductive organs of the opposite sex. They require vastly different medical care than even their infertile "cis" counterparts.
>>6187627
>TERF here
>>6187998
wow rude! you should treat ur fellow wombman with respect and understanding
xoxo, Laura
>>6187627
>My personal belief is that anyone can do anything to their bodies for whatever reason as long as they are an adult who can take responsibility for their own decisions.
I'm not a TERF, I don't agree with most TERF viewpoints but this is something I can agree with. If you get your tits or dick lopped off it's all on you and if you end up detransistioning you shouldn't whine about how the trannies ruined your life
>>6187972
Not really, for old men probably reversible, but if you disrupted the end of your maturation with that, then I don't know if you can go back to normal after years on this stuff.
I don't think being born with it is a sound cut off either. You messed up phenotype and don't have the one sexually mature men do one way or another. Only difference is this time it's something akin to those fish who develop pseudohermaphrodism conditions because xenoestrogens got dumped in the water.
I think an intermediate box makes perfect sense if you aren't one of the two types of gamete producing fertile humans.
>>6188111
>if you aren't one of the two types of gamete producing fertile humans.
i think these organisms are called "asexual", aren't they?
>>6188130
That makes me sound like an amoeba. Can't we do inter rather than a?
>>6183581
>guess what is not plastic and actually set in stone and cannot be changed? your body
This is actually bullshit, you can change the shit out of your body through means as mundane as exercise. Changing sex on a biological level is impossible but getting really close aesthetically isn't.
>>6187840
> feminism has cancer
That is genius
>>6183398
tomboys needed legitimization?
>>6182999
I don't really care if you think I'm a terf pretending not to be a terf, I still agree with some of their points because they are correct.
>>6183168
>evil patriarchy said nope.
Because they want only mtfs who will be "perfect women" aka fuck dudes.
>>6183652
You CONSTANTLY badmouth Yardley but never post anything proving she does what you say she does. Shut the fuck up.
>>6187627
>The difference is that trannies want to take away the biological aspect of sex. They want it to be a feeling or a hypothetical part of your brain that is not supported by science.
>Protip: Trannies do not have "female" brains, or they would diagnose GID with mri scans.
Hi, I'm sympathetic to the terf movement. When are you going to start taking down gender identity legislation? The DOJ is starting to say it's "sex," which means the end for women-only things and everything will be based in MTF's subjective feels.
>>6188513
>When are you going to start taking down gender identity legislation
You passed the North Carolina legislation.
You screwed over every single gay man and lesbian in that state, you're no longer allowed to file suit if you've been fired or cheated out of a contract if they justify it by saying you are gay. You're patterning the the fundamentalist right that calls gays pedos, you're harassing and stalking women journalists who criticize your laws and harassing businesses that worry about their employees. >>6181380 >>6181436
You've shown your true colors by screwing over everyone lgbt for the sake of your vendetta.
The courts rightly found it to be illegal and the Justice department is now simply moving to sanction them.
Wapo was right, you're really the same kind of man as the white supremacists, you even associate with them now for your loosing cause.
>>6188513
Women's organizations called, they said you're full of shit. http://endsexualviolence.org/files/NTFNationalConsensusStmtTransAccessWithSignatories.pdf
Men like you just tell others what to do, you never change.
>>6188555
>>6188572
I always hate when you respond to my posts because you're so unhinged.
>implying I even live in that state
Oh, and just because some organizations are fine with letting MTFs into women's shelters, doesn't mean I agree with them or have to. Women aren't a hive mind. Yes, I am a woman, and no, calling me a man doesn't change that.
One man has already posed as a MTF and raped two women at two different shelters in Canada. He was able to pose as a mtf because all he had to say was that he was a woman and that's how he was let in. If requirements to access were more stringent than that, he wouldn't have been able to rape those women in those shelters. Men go into women's bathrooms plenty of times to peep on women - saying trans people can use bathrooms based exclusively on gender identity, a thing that is barely defined and definitely not quantified, makes it easier for them to do so without being expelled BEFORE they can commit a crime.
>>6188632
Funny given your outrageous claims.
If course you don't like in NC, that's why you don't see the damage your laws and rhetoric have done to gays and lesbians.
You're working to harass the Anti-HB2 coalition though, and your working with Ted Cruz and men who openly talk about putting homosexuals to death so you own this.
>One man
A third of America has had antidiscrination laws for a decade now, they have never resulted in the rapists you claim.
Ham brook was in Canada, they caught him arrested him and punished him as harshly as the law allows. They made an example of him and in the years that followed there has never been another person who dared try that. The system works, all the facts are against your baseless fearmongerig and the public is wiseing up to that.
http://www.politifact.com/north-carolina/statements/2016/apr/01/chris-sgro/equality-nc-director-no-public-safety-risks-cities/
>just because some organizations are fine with
It's every battered women's organization that's says you're a baseless liar.
They're the ones who actually help victims and know what goes on.
Truly disgusting how a man like you who does nothing to help can talk down to women's orgs who do.
At least the females here who might have those ideas have suffered and are coming from legit positions, even if names is misplaced. You're just a self righteous man working with people who kill gays and claiming women's orgs are backing nonexistent predators. Disgusting self righteous man.
>>6188869
>you don't like in NC
You don't live in NC
>even if names is misplaced.
blame
Stand by what I said, a smug armchair feminist man like you had no grounds to call the VAW groups on the ground liars or claim you know better. I hope all the gays you were willing to screw over , all the women's groups you were willing to attack and all you baseless lies for the sake of your precious bill discredit you for good.
>>6188632
>Yes, I am a woman
Bullshit, You're that same preachy anime posting man who keeps coming here and prattling on about how he's the only feminism expert around. Your way of talking is unmistakable.
>>6188869
>so you own this.
Nah, I wasn't there, I didn't pass it. Besides, trans rights =/= gay rights forever and amen.
>It's every battered women's organization that's says you're a baseless liar.
Again, their opinion. One man has already done it, so I'm sure others will.
>You're just a self righteous man
I'm actually female, I said so in the comment you responded to. This is a good example of how you are, like, pretty crazy. Crazy to the point of not being able to read. Get therapy or something.
>>6188945
Ok, buddy.
>>6188994
>Besides, trans rights =/= gay rights
Yeah and that's why you're fighting for s bill that banned any gay antidiscrimination laws and banned ten from suing so long as they were cheated for that reason.
That's why the other people in your cause are guys who talk about killing gays.
They might not be the same thing but you've thrown your lot in with the antigay movement and everyone knows that.
>One man has already done it, so I'm sure others will.
never in the United States despite all of its stated and cities with trans protections. One non trans man was caught in Canada, the system worked and such a thing never happened again.
Your rape myth is fake, everyone knows this by now and the fact checkers in the media, the women's orgs and everyone have thoroughly demonstrated nothing you claim exists.
>>6188994
http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/09/politics/poll-transgender-bathroom-law-north-carolina/
I'm just glad you pushing flimsy myths out into open has let the media, law enforcement and women's groups prove them to be lies. I'm glad your coalition includes fundies who want to kill gays so it shows you for what you are.
The public isn't buying your fearmongering anymore and they're turning against you. Pushing that bill and using fake arguments to defend it was probably the worst blunder you could make.
>>6189047
>>6189076
You can keep responding with the same things but there really is no reason to continually repeat myself. However, if you have to up the ante and make this about "killing gays" then maybe you already know your "arguments" are pretty ridiculous.
And yes, men do dress as women and sexually assault women in bathrooms. It's not a myth.
>>6189106
http://endsexualviolence.org/files/NTFNationalConsensusStmtTransAccessWithSignatories.pdf
http://www.politifact.com/north-carolina/statements/2016/apr/01/chris-sgro/equality-nc-director-no-public-safety-risks-cities/
It's a myth, going public with it made it apparent just how fake it was. And you though a law full of antigay poison pills was worth it and you work with guys who do try and kill gays so good luck hand waving that away.
>I am a woman
Nope. We can smell your unwashed beard from here, you misogynist pig!
>>6188994
>One man has already done it, so I'm sure others >will.
By that logic everyone should live their entire lives imprisoned to prevent crime. One human did it, so I'm sure others will. I guess its not that far-fetched.
>I'm actually female
Sorry hon, you're not passing.
>>6187329
>Intersex is rare
About as rare as trannies but probably with a lot more unreported since most people don't realize they're intersex unless a health issue develops or a doctor stumbles on a sign of it while treating something else.
So your excuse to disregard data that you don't like doesn't really hold up.
>>6187627
>a hypothetical part of your brain that is not supported by science
Observed physical differences aren't exactly hypothetical and your feels don't change what science supports.
>Protip: Trannies do not have "female" brains, or they would diagnose GID with mri scans.
Protip: Some of the structures can only be identified with dissection and have been but it's not a viable regular diagnostic measure for obvious reasons, you should try to look up the actual science on a topic instead of just assuming it based on your feels.
>>6187827
>Look up the brain plasticity then kill yourself for wasting my time explaining this to you you troll.
LOL
First calm down your sperg rage and then maybe you should look up brain plasticity a little more thoroughly than skimming a wiki or dictionary page.
Brain plasticity does not mean your brain is completely mutable to your environment, different structures and regions are set and non-plastic past certain points in development.
>>6187827
IIRC they did a study on mice and found that administering adult levels of sex hormones into them immediately after they were born could impact their brain structures. The affected mice would go on to mimic the sexual behaviours typical of the opposite sex.
That study also noted that administering high dosages of sex hormones after a short period of time from birth (about a week) *didn't* affect the latent sexual behaviour or brains of the mice in any detectable way.
In other words, >>6196124 anon is right. Brain plasticity is used just as much to refer to how parts of the brain can be post-natally re-shaped, as it is to refer to parts of the brain that *cannot* be post-natally re-shaped.
I'm not claiming that the entire fucking brain is different between males and females, but there are parts of it that exhibit a marked sexual dimorphism, separate of societal influence.
Not like a fucking TERF would listen though...
>>6196158
>IIRC they did a study on mice and found that administering adult levels of sex hormones into them immediately after they were born could impact their brain structures. The affected mice would go on to mimic the sexual behaviours typical of the opposite sex.
They found something similar with some ants too, there was a small window of development where researchers were able to manipulate chemical levels to switch the behavior of one cast to another, after that window the behaviors were set and unable to be similarly changed.
Not exactly proof for anything with humans but interesting.
