Whenever I hear about or read trans people's accounts of how they found out they weren't cis, it's always about very regressive gender expectations. "I didn't like the color pink or playing with dolls, so I knew I wasn't a girl." "I didn't like sports or cars, so I wasn't a boy."
On one hand social justice is trying to destroy preconceived notions of gender and enforced roles, but on the other hand when someone tells us that they don't feel comfortable in the traditional role of their gender we say "well you must be trans!"
Is that really okay? Like, how many people do you know that went through a tomboy or crossdressing phase as kids? I know lots. It's relatively normal. Obviously I understand that gender dysphoria is something different and real, but aren't we going a little too far with the whole thing. We're teaching kids and teens, who are very impressionable, that if they don't feel 100% male or female at all times they must be trans, or non-binary, or genderqueer, when everyone knows that this phenomena is actually very rare in society.
>>6077254
>but on the other hand when someone tells us that they don't feel comfortable in the traditional role of their gender we say "well you must be trans!"
>>6077254
It's entirely body dysmorphia. The religious lunatics who claim LGBT is out to recruit kids would do better to avoid those bizarre neonazi myths.
You know you don't have a viable argument so instead you try and re use the boogieman minority eating kids trope. Pathetic.
>>6077254
Idiot
>>6077254
Ok, OP. Here's why I'm a transgirl.
Because I am afraid of being a man.
The men in my life are broken. Mentally scared from war and from their traditionally more risky jobs, because testosterone is a fucking mind-inhibitor, going full primal at it's peak.
The men in my life are weak. They won't express themselves. They won't talk about things, but they are good at yelling.
The women in my life are confident. They cry, but once they're done, they get to work. They never give up, and are always willing to help others in doing so.
The women in my life are strong. They don't argue or yell, they debate. They're willing to change their minds. They wear their beliefs on their shirt.
I can look up to my mother, my best friend, and my teachers. I am worried for the health of my father, my brother, and my best friends-boy friend, and I am afraid, If I don't emulate what women have, I will be just as self-destructive as the men in my life.
>>6077254
Maybe in super liberal areas of the pacific northwest in the U.S. these things are true (or on Susans), though, as someone who lives in Portland's suburbs, I've never encountered that. To be fair I hide away at home a lot, but even on campus I don't hear those things.
I've certainly heard people on here listing things like color or toy preference in a group of things that, while growing up, signified their transness, but that's the only context I've seen that in. There also tends to be a significant amount of things relating to bodily dysphoria on their lists as well. I think there's a fairly clear distinction between simple cross-dressers and us trannies. One likes clothing, and the other wants an entirely different body (and social standards/perceptions or whatever). I haven't see anyone teaching children that slight variations in gender perception or gender roles means you're trans. It seems instead that these things are becoming slightly less rigid over time. That doesn't mean what you're saying doesn't at all happen, but I think it's happening at a much smaller scale than your post implies. Most people who are aware of the concept, expect some sort of bodily related issue.
for when this comes up
I think you haven't really spent any time asking trans people why they are trans because the bullshit you're saying (that its about hobby preferences and nothing else) is nothing I have ever seen in such discussions. Maybe on tumblr, but on 4chan? No.
>>6078468
This is a bullshit reason for being trans. Your opinions are so wrong and based off stereotypes. I've seen women cry, cry again in 10 minutes, cry over the same thing a week later, i've seen them scream at the top of their lungs over a stupid argument, and they can be REAL bitches. Like shit, maybe men have fistfights, but you don't want to see two girls fight. Because they fight with fucking nasty tricks and shit, setting people up against each other, it's just more complicated. It sounds to me like you are already everything you claimed men are. If you think what you just mentioned is being a man or woman, then good luck with your 'transition'. I advice you to seek help with a therapist, you seem very confused about who you are and want to be.
>>6077254
eh, the reason i'm trans is my doctor told me.
but it all pretty much made sense.
i had always tried to be hyper masculine, even going so far as to nearly joining the military.
but at the same time i kinda filled in the feminine stereotypes without thinking about it. i was, in my mind and dreams, for all intents and purposes, female; i just never put 2 and 2 together.
also: i'm not sure if it's relevant or not but i was 19 when i started hrt and still hadnt grown facial hair, nothing puberty-wise other than some groin hair had come my way.
>>6077254
I don't know OP the reason's for people being trans sounds fucking stupid. Like I'm trans because my hormones and biology make my brain feel like shit and taking hormones has helped me improve my mood, being seen as a women is just a really nice bonus for me because I just so happen to like that too.
>>6077254
I'm trans because I fucking hate having a penis and testes, and a male body, only way to get rid of it currently is to jump through all the WPATH hoops for SRS, which includes being designated as trans.
I'm trans cause as soon as I saw people around me get affected by puberty I started getting depressed that that would happen to me. And when I repressed by acting macho and shit I just got even more depressed. Then I realized I was happiest when people commented on how much I looked like a woman (thank you based genetics) and started HRT when I went away to college. Now I'm passing and I'm not even trying to be stereotypically feminine, just doing/wearing whatever I find comfortable lol
>>6078468
Please please please let this be a troll.
Wanting to transition because you have bad male role models is literally no different than transitioning because you fetishize being a girl.
It's fucking retarded and I hope you get hit by a truck.
>>6077254
Media highly distorts the personal accounts of trans people, even younger, who they interview. Any trans person who had the misfortune to deal with them can tell you that.
They have a comforting narrative to sell to cis people, and if you deviate from that prepare to either have your words distorted or ignored.
>>6077254
I like this troll, he asks all the questions I want to ask but don't cause drama
I am trans because I can't stand my masculine manhon body. How can you be so dense? I don't give a shit about colors or toys.
>"I didn't like the color pink or playing with dolls, so I knew I wasn't a girl." "I didn't like sports or cars, so I wasn't a boy. "
if people really think its like that.. thats sad, really sad
>>6079838
yea, same. It has nothing to do with interests/hobbies/"I like pink more so im a girl"
thats bullshit
Whenever I talk with a cis person about why I'm trans, telling them about my body dysphoria, they're pretty much always fucking confused and never realize that's what being trans is. They always assume it's just because I hate being a girl and don't want to conform to traditional stereotypes, but that's not fucking it at all.
It's about me loathing my fucking body. That's literally it. Dysphoria is the key here, not anything else really. If you don't have dysphoria you're not trans. Simply put.
>>6079439
And yet, the world is full of agp transbians who confuse their fetish with sincere need to be a woman :/.
>>6077254
I too have noticed this. It's the huge hypocrisy that I am unable to ignore. It's why I cannot fully accept the existence of transgender as a real condition.
>>6078468
what kind of hobbies do you have and what kind of men are they?
>>6077254
That's normally how I'll see a lot of people's stories start out but I think of it more as a way to explain it to people who don't understand trans as easily. That's not normally the entire explanations - just a very simple way to put it. Even if you don't accept gender roles as needed anymore, it's still difficult to pull yourself away from them after having grown up with em. 'Tis why I think that's how people will explain their stories.
>>6079992
>just a very simple way to put it
I think that's the problem, people accepting simplicity and not varied.
>>6077254
Fuck -all- of your shit, I'm a MtF who builds engines.
>>6080006
Well, yeah, it would be nice to not have to put things in simple terms. It's hard when we still haven't been able to disconnect ourselves from said gender roles. It's why we still use them to explain things, despite not liking them. Life's ruf m8
Transpeople can't and don't exist. You can never change your sex. What is gender? Is it a social construct? Then how are biologically the other gender?
Why not stop pretending and become confident in your own skin?
Wearing a dress doesn't make you a woman, liking pink is not a sign of being a girl, if you folks want to tear down gender barriers, why don't you just live the life you want but as a guy?
>>6080022
This person gets it.
>>6080056
>>6080022
Deluding yourself into thinking you know better than all doctors ain't getting it.
Just a very funny mental illness from someone with delusions of grandeur.
>>6077254
I am a trans girl because being socially seen and responded to as a girl is necessary to my happiness in life. I totally enjoy the female aesthetics as well so I also love transitioning for those reasons, but my transition is all about making my life better and worth living and it has totally worked.
In the 10 months that I have been transitioning I have accomplished so much just because of this vastly improved self-image due to how I am treated. I now have a partner in life that I can see myself being with forever, I am out there making new friends for the first time for over 15 years and garnering new hobbies. I am exploring the world again and going to events I find interesting. I am thinking about wanting to become a part of my local community. I even am thinking about the steps I will need to take to become a mother.
So as you can see, I don't see being trans to have anything to do with the things you do at all. It is all about the 'you' that you know that you are and need the world to see as well.
>>6080059
He never claimed to know anything better than doctors he was pointing out a hole in progressive logic large enough to drive a truck through.
Also no doctor will tell you you can change your chromosomes.
>>6080070
Wow, now I feel much better about wanting to transition. I hope ill be happier that way aswell, and hope I can live a "new", better life..
Thank you
>>6078468
lol I'm just gonna start saying this shit to people. It's not true, but it's what they want to hear and they'll leave me the fuck alone.
>>6080070
How old were you when you started transitioning?
>>6077254
This is a contradiction at the heart of transgender idealogy.
On one hand, gender roles are false, oppressive, constraining expectations placed upon us by the society.
On the other hand, gender identity for MtFs is the most superficial, bread and butter, absurd attempt at womanhood I've ever seen.
> I saw two girls kiss in a movie and I knew I was a woman
> I put on a pair of panties and I just knew I was a woman
> I want to be beautiful and cute and pretty
None of these things are legitimate claims to womanhood.
Most MtFs have no clue what it's actually like to be a woman, and they aren't curious because they'd have to confront their own false perception of the gender.
I mean, my heart goes out to anybody suffering gender dysphoria, but holy shit, look at the disservice being done to actual women in this process.
MtFs should be treated as women socially and classified as transgender by law.
>>6080104
what youre describing is by no means "transgender idealogy" but rather SJW idealogy.
SJW's are retarded fucks, who dont even realize how hypocritical they are and dont represent the actual Trans community
>>6080082
>He never claimed to know anything better than doctors
>he was pointing out a hole in progressive logic
Yeah he never claimed to know anything better than doctors... except for everything to do with this topic. You can't vaguely armchair psychoanalyze gender dysphoria away just because it's too hard for you to wrap your head around with your Ph.D. in 4chan studies.
>>6080022
>>6080056
>>6080059
>>6080082
>>6080116
Funniest is part was, I am >>6080022. I was trolling. I am transgender and that line of argument is one of the most kek'd and ignorant.
There is a biological basis for gender. So far it is appearing there is a biological basis for being transgender. So gtfo >>6080056
>>6080097
I was 30 when I started medically transitioning. I do know that I had low testosterone my whole life though, so I never developed along very masculine lines though. Socially I never had any interest in being a boy at all, so I never really developed that way. I found what had to be the nicest group of little girls ever and they just let me play with them as one of the girls with no problems for years actually. Puberty made things weird for them though, and then I got super lost and hid away from the world.
I had a whole slew of fun family issues that destroyed my childhood after that as well, and both of these set me in a long period of seclusion which basically wrapped me up and didn't let me go until recently. It is ridiculous how lost you can get in your own mind.
>>6080127
Stop doing this.
>>6080111
What you call "sjw idealogy" is basically the mainstream view being pushed on liberals (moderate liberals, baby boomers, normative fools).
> they dont represent the actual Trans community
But they do. In the Huffington Post and other mainstream liberal sources, the line is touted that "Transwoman = WOMAN" and that means treating them as women both socially and legally.
I agree it's a radical idea at heart, but in a sense, this is the mainstream perception of 'tolerance' toward transgender people and their issues.
I wonder if this will change in coming years as freak shows like Jenner and other 'bad news' continues to surface in the public conception of transgenderism.
>>6080022
>>6080127
>coherent argument
>trolling
mfw you just played yourself
>>6080158
Except it's not a coherent argument because the argument implies a lot of information.
>Implies transgender people feel the same about gender role as SJW
>Implies there is no biological basis to gender.
>Implies transgender people CAN feel comfortable in their un-transitioned skin
>why don't you just live the life you want but as a guy?
Because that's not the life I want.
>Implies people transition because they like pink or dresses.
This is literally bullshit lol. Transgender flags are never raised until children say things like, "Mommy I'm a girl." etc. Some SJW couples may be pushy which is just SJW shit and not reflective of this community.
>Transgender people can't and don't exist.
This is demonstrably false because I am a transgender person.
Basically I made an argument soup out of what /pol/ thinks is such a clever and original argument. This argument is garbage because it implies so much about both parties engaging in the discussion, it generalizes, and marginalizes. It's a poor argument. Here are the facts:
-Trannies brains are more like the opposite sex (or an intermediary position)
-Trannies experience their life as you would expect them to in lieu of reversed sexual dimorphic structures (which are most prevalent in areas involving endocrine control).
-Trannies empirically do better after transitioning
-Gender variant peoples have existed in all cultures throughout history.
Until you can refute one or multiple of these arguments, the reality is transgender people exist, transgender people have a biological underpinning for their feelings, their feelings are consistent with what you would expect via their biology, and gender variance has existed forever.
i knew i was a woman because i started getting periods when i was 12
checkmate SJWs and alt-right tards
>>6080134
The media knows it's a controversial issue. The media's also run by sociopaths. They have the facts, and know what medical and social treatment trans people need and why, but have no qualms baiting society in with sappy inspiration porn and sad puppy trans stories. Then, when that Lifetime television special angle stops being trendy, and everyone's all buttered up and passive-aggressively resentful of these supposedly innocent, humble and perfect victims the media placed on a pedestal, they start to label gaudy, tone-deaf celebrity attention whores like Jenner and Tur as "spokespeople" (because they choose who represents trans people, not trans people) knowing full well the image that presents to the already fearful and uncertain public high on Jesus, feminism and extreme identity politics in general.
The media wants sensation, loud noises, people yelling, laws being passed and struck down, heated debates being televised, violence, trans people dying, trans people murdering, raping and being raped, victimizing and being victimized. This is a cash cow for them, and our rights only matter as far as our lived experience and our struggle can be exploited in front of a camera, packaged and merchandised.
They're using us to distract everyone else from things people should be worrying about. Now you have fearful mobs demanding that the government check peoples' ids just to use the bathroom, and they're so angry they see nothing wrong with that picture or how that factors into the growing trend of overbearing government oversight.
>>6080022
>You can never change your sex
No. You can't change your chromosomal sex (yet), but you can certainly change your sexual expression which is unquestionably a part of your sex. If you can change it, then you've necessarily changed your sex. It's quite easy to do and is one of the neatest features the human body has.
> What is gender? Is it a social construct? Then how are biologically the other gender?
Gender is a subject of study/discussion. Social construct refers to the roles people play and how they present themselves. Nobody is 'biologically the other gender'. They're a certain biological sex and they may yearn to be another and take steps to get closer to their target sex. Don't conflate sex and gender. They're related traits but not the same thing.
> Wearing a dress doesn't make you a woman, liking pink is not a sign of being a girl
In our culture this isn't 100% true. Those elements in isolation don't make you a woman, but they do contribute to your overall 'feminity' or 'woman-ness'. Women wear dresses and girls tend to wear pink. You could cite that men used to wear dresses in other cultures, but that's only proving my point.
> Why not stop pretending and become confident in your own skin?
By that logic why do anything at all to modify your appearance and presentation? Why shower? Why exercise to gain muscle mass? Can't you just be comfortable in your own skin? You know, naturally?
> why don't you just live the life you want but as a guy?
because that isn't the life said trans person wants?
>>6079087
>>6079899
>>6079862
>>6079859
>>6079838
These. Transitioning is the treatment for gender identity disorder, which is based in physical dysphoria over male parts/features. Transsexual is a term for being undergoing transition. Transgender is just an alterate term for 'this person experiences gender dysphoria'.
It's not about liking dolls or the colour pink for most trans people, and most trans people who say things like, 'well I always liked dolls as a child so I must be trans' are just really poor at describing things in a relatable way... or totally nuts, which means they can be ignored because they're on the fringe rather than representative of most trans people.
>>6080130
How did you feel now?
I'm 24 I'm terrified I avoided this. I knew when I was 11 what I wanted but grew up in an abusive home. I only now escaped my hellish childhood and my awful cunt of a mother. Now that I'm free idk what to do where to go who to talk to. I'm alone. I asked for some advice on the general threads but only got cancerous 18 year old minded answers from false flagging idiots.
>>6080104
Is being a transwoman just a feel? Or is there a femme in the machine somewhere? I hope in the next few years there is more concrete info on brain transness.
Otherwise I agree that MtFs dont experience complete womenhood.
>>6080472
No matter how concrete "info" there is, you'll still be"skeptic", and so will most others.
>>6080425
Hi. I'm 24 right now. I came out exactly a year ago this month. I'm finally going to start HRT next month. Do it if it will make you happy. I weigh around ~110 lbs and non-masculine face, so it's been easy for me come near passing without HRT. Even if you aren't going fully time, socially transitioning to your friends and being able to be comfortable and open about your identity is so beneficial.
Don't believe the memes and shit that people spew like "It's pointless to transition in your 20's". Fuck those people. They are bitter self hating individuals that want to cast their misery on others.
>>6080425
Oh, now I feel amazing. Since I have started taking care of myself, I decided to get into shape and fix my life in general. I cut sugar almost completely out of my diet, stopped drinking caffeine and started exercising regularly.
I work a steady job as an assistant manager at a local store in a small, so it is a fairly public work place. While I have had a few incidents of people being weird, the positive far outweighs the negative by so much I can not properly explain it. Apparently my changes suit me very well because I started getting hit on pretty quickly, though I wasn't ready to actually consider it until maybe a few months ago.
Started looking into dating, but I sort of wasn't even looking at my friends when this happened. A few weeks into looking into it, several of them came forward with feelings, and now I am with a friend I've had for about 4 years now. We don't know where it is going, but we trust each other implicitly.
Do you live in a state with informed consent clinics? If you do, it is the easiest way to get started. If you actually need help getting to the point where you are ready to transition, you may want to actually see a gender specialist and go through therapy. I went to the informed consent clinic in Boston when I was ready and they waived the psych screening and I had HRT 14 days later after my lab results said it was safe for me.
As for making friends, I made almost all of mine through my work. I had people take notice and start talking to me, and it gave me confidence and I started talking to people I found interesting as well and a bit of this back and forth has me quite a few friends now. Basically, you just have to talk to people and if they seem cool see if they want to hang out some time. Just make it casual and it usually works.
>>6080472
>>6080528
> I hope in the next few years there is more concrete info on brain transness.
I do as well, but it's worth noting there is already a significant amount of evidence that illustrates a high degree of likelyhood that it is a "femme in the machine".
This is an image I made. I did not cherry pick my research. It's hard to find research that disagrees with the trend in the data aggregate because even when people go to disprove these things it just yields more evidence that points in the same direction.
This is an image I put together that has the last 25 years of research on sexual dimorphism in the brain and the last 20 years of transgender brain physiology.
The areas with the greatest degree of difference from cis-typical brains are
>Structural Hemispheric and Lobar Connectivity
>Hypothalamus structure and activation
>Cortical Thickness
>Differences in Limbic nucleus
>Callosal Shapes
The limbic system is in control of our instinctual behaviors and the hypothalamus is our endocrine control. If you were to ever estimate where the epicenter of a latent sense of gender would be, it'd be somewhere around there.
Transpeople behave exactly how we would expect them to if the idea of brain sex is true. Enjoy the resources. I summarized all the articles about transgender brain phsyiology. The newer ones are most interesting and substantive.
>>6080180
>Trannies empirically do better after transitioning
If they don't kill themselves first after they've made themselves into Frankenstein with little job or dating prospects.
>>6080595
False.
>Heylans et al., 2014: "A difference in SCL-90 [a test of distress, anxiety, and hostility] overall psychoneurotic distress was observed at the different points of assessments (P = 0.003), with the most prominent decrease occurring after the initiation of hormone therapy (P < 0.001)...Furthermore, the SCL-90 scores resembled those of a general population after hormone therapy was initiated."
>Colizzi et al., 2013: "At enrollment, transsexuals reported elevated CAR ['cortisol awakening response', a physiological measure of stress]; their values were out of normal. They expressed higher perceived stress and more attachment insecurity, with respect to normative sample data. When treated with hormone therapy [at followup, 1 year after beginning HRT], transsexuals reported significantly lower CAR (P < 0.001), falling within the normal range for cortisol levels. Treated transsexuals showed also lower perceived stress (P < 0.001), with levels similar to normative samples."
>Gomez-Gil et al., 2012: "SADS, HAD-A, and HAD-Depression (HAD-D) mean scores [these are tests of depression and anxiety] were significantly higher among patients who had not begun cross-sex hormonal treatment compared with patients in hormonal treatment (F=4.362, p=.038; F=14.589, p=.001; F=9.523, p=.002 respectively). Similarly, current symptoms of anxiety and depression were present in a significantly higher percentage of untreated patients than in treated patients (61% vs. 33% and 31% vs. 8% respectively)."
>>6080595
>>6080633
>Unlike the previous studies, it's not peer-reviewed, but the large sample size provides some corroboration of the above results. In particular, we have: (Page 15): "Stage of transition had a substantial impact upon life satisfaction within the sample. 70% of the participants stated that they were more satisfied with their lives since transition, compared to 2% who were less satisfied (N=671)" (Page 50): " Most participants who had transitioned felt that their mental health was better after doing so (74%), compared to only 5% who felt it was worse (N=353)." (Page 55): "For participants who had transitioned, this had led to changes in their self-harming. 63% felt that they harmed themselves more before they transitioned, with only 3% harming themselves more after transition (N=206)." (Page 59): "Suicidal ideation and actual attempts reduced after transition, with 63% thinking about or attempting suicide more before they transitioned and only 3% thinking about or attempting suicide more post-transition. 7% found that this increased during transition, which has implications for the support provided to those undergoing these processes (N=316)."
>de Vries, et al., 2014 studied 55 trans teens from the onset of treatment in their early teenage years through a follow-up an average of 7 years later. They found no negative outcomes, no regrets, and in fact their group was slightly mentally healthier than controls.
>Lawrence, 2003 surveyed post-op trans folk: "Participants reported overwhelmingly that they were happy with their SRS results and that SRS had greatly improved the quality of their lives. None reported outright regret and only a few expressed even occasional regret."
Even the studies people like to use to paint trannies as worse off afterwards show the opposite (Djehne's research specifically). Sorry but trannies are EMPIRICALLY better off after starting their transition/transitioning. You probably don't care for real facts though.
>>6079025
That's a dumb reason too. That's how those dumb hons jutify destroying their families and ruining their wives lives. "I don't have any control !!! My therapist says I need to transition it's medical it's out of my control !!#". Pure bullshit
>>6079899
>It's about me loathing my fucking body. That's literally it.
That doesn't necessarily mean you're trans, you could just be really fucking fat.
>>6080718
not him, but for me its the case that I just loath my masculinity.
Im only 18, but more bodyhair, slowly getting a beard, manly face, thats what I hate. Im far from being fat, and (as male) dont look bad either, but I still want to be female
>>6080698
Trans people aren't responsible for being trans, nor are they responsible for the fact that the most effective treatment for gender dysphoria to date is medical transition, nor are they responsible for the stigma society associates with the issues they face.
This is essentially blaming a family member for having a severe medical issue solely because it's inconvenient to deal with and misunderstood by the public.
You can't keep screaming "bullshit" at everything you don't immediately like or comprehend in life, especially without anything to back it up, and still expect your opinions to be taken seriously.
>>6080127
Poor hon, no chance of passing so you spend all your time lashing out at other happier trannies on the net
My heart goes out to you pitiful thing
>>6080633
>>6080637
>See! Taking hormones and chopping off your dick makes your life better on average!
>Ignores over 40% suicide rate
>Ignores few actually pass as their gender they want to be, but will never be
>Ignores unemployment rate
>Ignore the low dating pool
>Ignores it's a debilitating mental disorder that needs psychological help
>You probably don't care for real facts though.
KEK
>>6080885
Higher suicide rate than the normal population does not imply a problem with the treatment.
>>6080885
>ignores that suicide rates are lower than with transgender people who dont transition
>>6080913
>>6080923
Facts don't matter when you have DANK MEMES
#YOLOSWAG
#ZEROPERSONALITY
#FOLLOWER
#TRUMP2016
#TRIGGEREDLOL
>>6080913
So it implies a problem with society right? The treatment is great despite the 40% suicide rate before and after. At least they are happy being the opposite gender in their minds, they just have to take pills so the magic won't go away.
>>6080923
>What is the Swedish follow up study?
>Why doesn't John Hopkins do sexual reassignment anymore?
>>6077254
It's really a catch-22. If you say you don't like anything pertaining to yoir gender identity at all, or you don't act like a typical man/woman, or talk like one, etc, people get pissed off and say you're not really trans. But if you do, coincidentally, happen to like your given gender roles, then you're just perpetuating stereotypes and being a fetishist or a liar.
Personally I fall somewhere in between. I guess I'm just lucky that my interests fall mostly in line with my gender but there's a few feminine things I still enjoy, and it's usually enough to dispell accusations of trying too hard.
>>6077254
Here's why I'm trans OP: Because I hate the way my body looks. I hate having breasts and a vagina. I want to kill myself because I'm stuck with sex organs I don't want
I don't care about hobbies/interests/ect. I still have some fairly "feminine" interests.
>>6080885
So you just ignored empirical evidence that illustrates the benefit of transition. So yeah, you don't care for facts.
See: >>6080913
Also,
>Ignores unemployment rate
There are many factors for this and one of them is discrimination. In many areas of the US and most places across the world it's completely legal for companies to discriminate and not hire people/fire people based on being transgender. What you wrote is more a symptom of discrimination against trans-people.
>Ignore the low dating pool
Literally what does this have to do with anything? There is a small dating pool for anti-social, autist neckbearded cucks like yourself too.
>Ignores it's a debilitating mental disorder that needs psychological help
Except the vast majority of us don't need psychological help after we transition.
Basically you used a lot of words and said nothing while ignoring empirical, peer reviewed evidence. Sick.
>>6080945
>>6080947
Lower rate of suicide after transition than before; the remaining higher rate compared to the normal population can be explained by other issues, like having a shit life from spending all of those years transitioning and struggling to be yourself and being shat upon by society.
Transitioning is a great cure for what it intends to cure -- dysphoria. No one has ever claimed it was a cureall.
>>6080964
>So you just ignored empirical evidence that illustrates the benefit of transition. So yeah, you don't care for facts.
Are you at all surprised? No one comes here looking to learn anything. They have their minds made up and no amount of hard facts are going to change that until it's trendy to agree with you.
Most of the people who post this bullshit are easily-swayed children who will go where the wind blows when it comes to supporting or condemning different groups of people as long as enough memes tell them so.
>>6080947
I didnt say anything about SRS + the vast majority of transgender people who went through transitioning say that it definitly increased their lifes quality.
>>6080964
>In many areas of the US and most places across the world it's completely legal for companies to discriminate and not hire people/fire people based on being transgender.
Then just be a stable attractive person then. Don't cry to the gobbermint when you look like a hot mess.
>Literally what does this have to do with anything?
Cause you know, relationships with people are important, plus married people tend to live longer.
>Except the vast majority of us don't need psychological help after we transition.
Actually you do because not only it can be a debilitating mental illness but they are co-morbid mental illness that come with gender dysphoria, mood and behavioral swings that come with blockers and hormone treatments.
>>6080997
So transitioning doesn't include SRS?
>>6080947
>Why doesn't John Hopkins do sexual reassignment anymore?
Uhm because the head of John Hopkins is an openly biased medical practitioner.
>Dr. McHugh is a self-described orthodox Catholic whose radical views are well documented. In his role as part of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops' review board, he pushed the idea that the Catholic sex-abuse scandal was not about pedophilia but about "homosexual predation on American Catholic youth." He filed an amicus brief arguing in favor of Proposition 8 on the basis that homosexuality is a "choice." Additionally, McHugh was in favor of forcing a pregnant 10-year-old girl to carry to term even though she had been raped by an adult relative.
Also, why do you focus so much on genital surgery? Do you realize that only 30% of MtF transgender people ever get surgery? Do you realize that only 2-10% of FtM get surgery? That means the total rate of bottom surgery for transpeople is like ~24%
I guess its more convenient to focus on "shocking" things like genital surgery than to actually face the reality that only a minority of an already small minority get the surgery.
>>6081036
>Then just be a stable attractive person then. Don't cry to the gobbermint when you look like a hot mess.
kekeke. Then stop trying to using employment rate as a piece of evidence about why trans-people are sick when in reality the amount of variables going into that number are much more than just the individual.
African American youth unemployment is like 46%, that's nearly 4-5x higher than transgender people. Hmm.
>Cause you know, relationships with people are important, plus married people tend to live longer.
This is probably your weakest argument. How do you feel about alt-right's MGTOW then?
>Actually you do because not only it can be a debilitating mental illness but they are co-morbid mental illness that come with gender dysphoria, mood and behavioral swings that come with blockers and hormone treatments.
LMAO. gr b8
>>6081036
>So transitioning doesn't include SRS
not always, no.
>>6081036
>Then just be a stable attractive person then. Don't cry to the gobbermint when you look like a hot mess.
Funny you say that, because I bet you're against puberty blockers.
>>6077254
yeah i get that feeling
>cis girl but hypermasculine in thoughts and actions, acted like a tomboy
i've even had friends tell me i'm MtF, i guess it doesnt help that i can grow a small shitstache. but i'm just a girl and i never thought of trying to be a boy. in fact, thinking that i might not be feminine enough, i try to be hypergirly now. i still play games and shitpost on 4chan though and everything
>>6081037
Dr. McHugh is only one person, despite being a director for over 30 years.
>>6081037
>Also, why do you focus so much on genital surgery?
That's not my main focus, and why don't most get the surgery, why isn't covered by insurance? It can reassign your sex, it's they want.
>>6081056
>African American youth unemployment is like 46%, that's nearly 4-5x higher than transgender people
Did you adjust for population proportion? since you want to bring out AAs, Afro transgender people have even higher unemployment numbers that's why see many of them do sex work. I can say lots of AAs youth are the ones you don't want to hire because of lack of skills or ethics and criminal records not just because they might look like a hot mess.
>This is probably your weakest argument.
>healthy relationships are a weak argument
>LMAO. gr b8
XDDDDDDDDDD
>>6081070
Then how are they transitioning from one gender to the other?
>>6081076
Yes and no.
>>6081112
>Then how are they transitioning from one gender to the other?
Because to many transpeople it doesnt matter whats inside their pants (there are atleast double as many who dont go through SRS) + the surgery can have complications. Its about appearance, and the feeling of having the right body + being recognized as the right gender.
>>6080885
>>6080947
>A closer reading of the paper shows that the increased mortality is in those who had surgery before 1989, and that mortality in trans people after 1989 is not statistically different from the general population. A recently published paper by Dr. Dhejne and colleagues shows that the regret rate for those having surgery from 2001-2010 is only 0.3%. Dr. Dhejne’s work shows that outcomes for transgender surgery have improved tremendously in the past 30 years, which supports the HHS decision to remove trans exclusions.
http://www.wpath.org/site_page.cfm?pk_association_webpage_menu=1635&pk_association_webpage=4905
Heh, you live in a funny tinfoil world
>>6081144
But it doesn't matter inside inside their pants why are dysphoric?
Am not convinced after all the studies anons have shown. It does matter if they have a penis or vagina.
>>6081144
>Its about appearance, and the feeling of having the right body + being recognized as the right gender.
Appearance I agree, but technically they are in the right body, it is their body, but their mental illness is telling them otherwise that's why they take hormones and get SRS believing it will give them the right one. Not much difference from Body dysmorphic disorder.
>>6081168
That just shows they have low regret rate after having permanent surgery, which does seem make sense because it's permanent. You'll have to move on, dilate and take meds for life unless you want more health problems.
>>6081275
It's not just John Hopkins that criticize SRS effectiveness:
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2004/jul/30/health.mentalhealth
>in a five-year study of 727 post-operative transsexuals published last year, 495 people dropped out for unknown reasons. Dr Hyde said the high drop out rate could reflect high levels of dissatisfaction or even suicide among post-operative transsexuals.
>Dr Wylie added that it was difficult to conduct research on the outcome of gender reassignment, or to compare its effects with alternative treatments, because transsexualism was such a "rare experience". Urological surgeon James Bellringer, who has performed more than 200 sex changes over the past four years, claimed that trying to carry out research that involves studying a control group of transsexual patients who were denied hormones and surgery would be unethical.
>>6081275
Who gives a fuck if you are convinced? You've ignored empirical evidence that shows sexual dimorphism in the brain exists, transgender people have incongruent sexually dimorphic areas in the brain, and transition is objectively beneficial.
It's not our fault we have shown you facts which were tested and peer reviewed and you want to continue to ignore them simply because it doesn't fit your narrative.
>But it doesn't matter inside inside their pants why are dysphoric?
Some people get major dysphoria from their genitals. Others don't. I myself don't really care about my genitals. For me, when I see my facial hair start to grow in it creates a very profound sense of sadness. I get dysphoric over facial hair and body structure mostly.
>Not much difference from Body dysmorphic disorder.
Incorrect. Patients with BDD almost ALWAYS fixate on a new part of their body that is a problem. Transgender individuals who transition, no longer have dysphoria.
>You'll have to move on
Do you not understand what regret means?
>>6081275
youre pretty retarded, arent you?
It DOES make a difference. Or is a smooth, feminine body the same thing as a bulky, hairy masculine body for you?
>>6081300
>Who gives a fuck if you are convinced?
Someone's mad, even after I've referred to the studies. I didn't ignore them.
Maybe lots of facts are enough to define things after all. If they were /pol/ would always be right.
>I get dysphoric over facial hair and body structure mostly.
And that has to do with what's in your pants. Your testicles produce testosterone, testosterone produces facial hair has an effect on body structure.
>>6081300
>Transgender individuals who transition, no longer have dysphoria.
Does transitioning ever end?
>Do you not understand what regret means?
To feel remorseful over an action, to feel that you should have made a different choice.
dictionary says:
>a sense of loss, disappointment, dissatisfaction, etc.
Seeing that's it's permanent surgery, whether you regret or not eventually you'll have to move on.
>>6081322
>It DOES make a difference.
How is it different from body image issues? They're taking hormones and getting surgeries on the premise of getting the right body, you dense fuck.
>>6081427
Which point are you trying to prove?
"Normal" body image issues (im too fat etc.) can mostly be solved by working on yourself, which isnt possible when youre trans
>>6081439
Being trans is not excuse to be a fatass either. If you want to pass as the opposite gender you'll have to put in effort and if you can't pass so be it. Life isn't fair, deal with it.
>>6081470
wtf are you talking about? I didnt say you can be a lazy fatfuck just because youre trans. Dont put words in my mouth. I just said that you cant workout in a gym and suddenly turn into the opposite gender.
>>6081290
It isn't a study or peer reviewed. It's a journalist a communist journalist who was fired for falsifying evidence
Not a peer reviewed study who made it through any journal. Why reject all the studies because the lunatic fringe?
Doctors also think you're full of shit. https://www.lambdalegal.org/sites/default/files/publications/downloads/fs_professional-org-statements-supporting-trans-health_1.pdf
>>6081275
A mortality as low as the average person. A complete recovery medically in other words.
>>6081486
>you cant workout in a gym and suddenly turn into the opposite gender.
Neither taking hormones or getting surgery can turn suddenly turn you into the opposite gender.
>>6081569
why are you trolling?
It makes you appear as the opposite gender, which is a huge step for transpeople
>>6081290
Lol! You keep citing people with no credibility and not even citing research papers. Yet I have cited 50+ actual peer reviewed, empirical research studies but you ignore those.
There are still people that claim the earth is flat but we laugh in their face because we can see empirically it isn't. This is literally the exact same thing. Empirical evidence shows shows sexual dimorphism in the brain exists, transgender people have in-congruent sexually dimorphic areas in the brain, and transition is objectively beneficial.
>>6081559
>It's a journalist a communist journalist who was fired for falsifying evidence
He's still there hun.
>>6081585
>not even citing research papers.
Okay
Here's the whole Birminton's University report
Starting on Pg.1408
http://www.birmingham.ac.uk/Documents/college-mds/haps/projects/ARIF/completed-requests.pdf
Here's an updated Swedish study
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885
>>6081579
Reality is the biggest troll.
>>6081723
Re assigned to tourism, Is that who you use instead of doctors manchild?
>>A closer reading of the paper shows that the increased mortality is in those who had surgery before 1989, and that mortality in trans people after 1989 is not statistically different from the general population. A recently published paper by Dr. Dhejne and colleagues shows that the regret rate for those having surgery from 2001-2010 is only 0.3%. Dr. Dhejne’s work shows that outcomes for transgender surgery have improved tremendously in the past 30 years, which supports the HHS decision to remove trans exclusions.
Nah Swedish study proves its a great success. Brit couldn't pass a journal it's discredited
>>6081773
I know I (sadly) wont ever be a "real" girl, but I can still live my life as if I was one and appearing as one
>>6082145
The Swedish study concluded:
>Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.
Which is reasonable.
You say am a manchild, but I have not ignored any studies or articles. You think am disproving "transitioning" when am not. All am saying is when you do there can be risks and issues involved that can not be ignored and to ignore such and issues would be foolish.
Transitioning is not just taking hormones or surgeries, to transition is a mindset, change from state to the next, a chosen path, everyone transitions differently.
>>6082356
>after 1989 is not statistically different from the general population.
Nah, on every count their data shows its statistically identical to the general population for anyone in the modern era.
You're a manchild because you want everyone to pretend the study doesn't prove you wrong. Can't even read right.
>>6082356
>Transitioning is not just taking hormones or surgeries, to transition is a mindset, change from state to the next, a chosen path, everyone transitions differently.
Disgusting, that's what hons and monsters all say. It's solely about altering your body. Not any of your brainwashing shit.
>>6082573
>Youre a manchild
>Am right and you're wrong
>You can't even read
Here's your (you)
>>6082589
>Not any of your brainwashing
>Literally stated the definition of transition
Allegory of the cave.
>>6077254
You don't find out about not being cis.
You've felt bad your whole life
Find out about transgenderism
Everything clicks.
>>6080583
THIS IS AMAZING.
Thank you very much Anon, may fortune follow you all of your days <3
Mind if I throw this in mtfg after I go pdf mining the papers?
>>6082659
Disgusting nonetheless. Making it about striping people of their personalities and what makes them and turning them into disgusting stereotypes is disgusting anyway you put it. Control over body needs to be decoupled from this disgusting stuff.
>>6077254
>Whenever I hear about people with inflamed appendix, they talk about stomach pain, and sometimes about throwing up
>So when somebody tells us that they are throwing up, or having stomach pain, we say "You must have an inflamed appendix!"
>Is that really ok? Like how many people do you know that had stomach pain, or threw up? I know lots, and they obviously didn't need to have their appendix removed
Holy shit OP, you gotta get your autism treated.
>>6082767
Hey! Thanks. <3
I plan on making a full graphic that detains the sexual dimorphism a bit further and includes empirical evidence on the benefit of transition + refutation of the Dhejne misinterpretation that literally emerges in every debate. There is a direct quote from Dhejne actually discussing frustration with the way people spin the first cohort of data. I also want to include the fact pimozide is not a valid argument because it wasn't a research paper, it was a case study of a single individual in 1995 who had a learning disability, sexual paraphilia, and felt "mildy gender dysphoric" next to it's incredibly long list of side effects. I will add a section about history as well.
>>6082659
Still doesn't change the fact the study you tried to cite explicitly contradicts you on anyone past 1989
>>6082778
Your mind is... fascinating...
>>6082850
Here's another (you).
>>6082852
I hate creeps talking about how "feminine" it's made them. You can promote this sick hon shit all you want. Still isn't any less cringe worthy.
>>6082894
I'm basically the same person but I feel more comfortable expressing myself through gestures/cultural jokes/styles that would be considered more feminine/too "girly" to do without catching flak as a guy. In that regard it has made me feel more feminine because I can express myself in those outlets, though as a person, I am the same.
>>6082865
Anon is right. What you cited directly refutes what you claimed.
You cited Cecilia Dhejne. She has spoken out directly against your type assessment of her research. Her work spanned from 1979-2001. It was split into two groups (1979-1989) and (1989-2001). Only the first sample cohort had elevated suicide rates post GRS. The second cohort had substantially lower rates closer to a normal range. The majority of research as data aggregate shows the OPPOSITE of what you claim.
Further, the next 10 years of her research showed the regret rate from 2001-2010 is only 0.3%.
So yeah, you got BTFO.
>>6082894
Self- confidence isn't a bad thing, knowing your-self isn't. I know no matter how I look it won't change how I really am.
>>6082934
>So yeah, you got BTFO.
Stop this bullshit, I settled the argument long time ago. Now it's just beating a dead horse. You all deserved to get trolled if you are going to act like this.
>>6082953
Then why the sick tangent about how everyone needs healing healing via scrubbing out who they are, not meds.
If anything it's just proof that femgen has the right idea, better completely do away with the link between the body customization stuff and the personality warping cult stuff.
>>6082995
Eh, I think you are over reaching. Everyone transitions differently, in this case, it's changing their sense of style, it's going to a therapist, taking blockers, feminizing or masculizing herbs or pills, it's changing their or gender marker, it's getting cosmedic surgery.
Despite changes, I learned some things are pretty unchangeable.
Your personality should stay the same or might change, probably as you get older, who knows? Things happen, plan, hope things go alright, be confidant in yourself and your decisions. If you feel unsure or have doubts question why(although some answers will be neutral).
