Why is that some people are so obsessive about other people's biological sex like they have to constantly "prove" and point out what biological sex you are? If you don't hurt anyone but yourself who cares? It's like people get downright insecure when they see men not staying men and women not staying women as if the whole world was going to end and that Satan is going to jump out of a Planned Parenthood clinic (probably growing out of the aborted fetus tissue) and rape everyone with his red dicks just because little boys feel to be girls and vice versa and that they are given hormones at such young age to prevent eternal hondom.
Sometimes it seems like "normal" people are more autistic than aspies when you see them spout "NO! Men are men XY = men, you got that. EVERY SINGLE CELL in your body, sir, including your brain, sir, is male ... so stay male ... or I will get very very upset, sir. This is nuts! Sir."
>>5894470
I think a lot of it has to do with insecurity. Realizing that the barrier between genders isn't so solid forces people to realize they might experience attractions they would classify as gay. And it might be jealousy too, masculine straight men in particular may wish they could transition so that they would have easy access to a female body.
>>5894470
Because there's even fewer transgender murderers then there is gay male or lesbian murderers.
That and because there's fewer laws protecting transgender people then any other people. Surprise surprise, if people can get away with something, they will do it, even if it's something like, say, shitting down a baby's throat. In Russian satellite states where there is no law enforcement, people shit down baby's throats when they get bored.
Because it's giving a group of people rights no other groups or individuals have.
If a short man have dysphoria over being a manlet and the treatment he has in society and he wishes he could be taller, he will be told by the medical profession that he needs to learn to love himself for what he is and stop thinking.
A trans person will told that of course they are what they say they are and be carefully monitored so they can change themselves to fit what they want.
No other groups are treated this way, of course there will be backlash against it.
>>5894510
It's not "backlash" when you act like Christian dog shit.
>>5894518
Every light casts a shadow, when one group get told that they are brave and of course they have the right to what they say they wish they were born as, there will be backlash from any side. Be it christian, jealous people, angry people, so on and so forth. Its just the way it is.
>>5894522
tl;dr worthless infection
>>5894518
>Christian
no need to bash christians senpai
>>5894527
Why are you mad at me, I'm simply explaining why its happening, I'm not attacking anyone myself.
>>5894530
There is a need to do it, which is why I do it, senpai.
>>5894531
I hate your guts because you're a worthless Christian dog shit infection. The rest of your post was tl;dr.
>>5894533
What's wrong with Christians?
I'm Christian and so is my family and they have no issues with trannies.
Just because a vocal minority are dicks about it dose not mean we are all. That's like hating the lgbt community because of those retarded pride parades and tumblr.
>>5894535
I'm not christian, I suggest you read over what I wrote again.
I think humanity should embrace neuroscience so that everyone can be changed into what they really want to be.
If someone wants to be otherkin they should, if someone wants to have six hands they should. If someone wants to be more masculine they should.
We need to become like the pantheons we grew up hearing about.
I'm not entirely sure. I believe there are myriad reasons.
I never "bash" trans and am polite but something about them rouses disgust from me.
I had to sit and think what caused this sense of revulsion for a while as I'm not religious or phobic towards other LGBT types. It was something deep seated that just kind of came from the core without real emotion involved but I think I figured out why I have an issue with trans, exclusively with mtf:
I view them as weak and pathetic.
It's throwing off the "male" responsibilities in society to pursue the female life.
I don't think I would register such a disgust if they even acted like women but mtfs are feminine to an extreme from my experiences. It seems like they are running from a duty expected of them to take an easy way out.
I don't know why I feel this way and it took quite some time to formulate it into something tangible. As I said I'm not religious or even conservative in most things and I've never expressed these feelings to any one public or private. Ive never voted against LGBT rights and believe they are people just trying to live their lives. I'm polite and respectful but could never have a personal relationship beyond an aquaitance because of the repulsion I feel towards mtf trans.
So, it's complex I guess.
>>5894536
They're delusional retarded deceitful cowardly brainwashed boring spoiled infectious arrogant ignorant selfish fake straight people.
>>5894550
No they're not.
Please explain your reasoning.
>>5894470
>Why is that some people are so obsessive about other people's biological sex
because I'll get fired if I don't refer to someone as "zir" when they look like a dude
>>5894558
They are all those things, and that's why I hate them. That is my reasoning. I'm not trying to trick you.
>>5894550
>fake
You mean like trans people?
because im attracted to mtf transpersons and the more rights they have and the more confident they feel
the harder it is for me to ensnare them
i must ensure they're kept under my heel so they're easy pickings.
then i'll pretend im a big macho man and tell my friends they're just some bitch that follows me around.
we'll all laugh, its cool.
>>5894567
No, I mean like epic dank masters.
>>5894550
>straight people
is this a bad thing?
>>5894510
That's kind of like saying physically disabled people have special rights since there are laws requiring public buildings to be wheelchair accessible. I don't even thing you can have dysphoria in the neurological sense for being short, there isn't such a thing as "brain height" the way there is "brain sex". I think you're just talking about feeling a lack of privilege, which isn't the same as having dysphoria.
>>5894572
Yeah, that's why I listed it at the end. Typically you list the most important things in a list at the beginning and the end.
>>5894580
You're doing a common mistake confusing gender dysphoria with dysphoria, the two are not the same.
But yes, disabled people have both an advantage and a disadvantage in that we only fix them so much, but they are more advanced through technological aiding. As I said, humanity must embrace neuroscience so we all can change ourselves into what we really feel like. It should be a human right to be able to shape yourself towards the things you should really be.
>>5894518
i don't think it's entirely a "christian" problem as much as a "fundamentalist christian" problem
>>5894590
>You're doing a common mistake confusing gender dysphoria with dysphoria, the two are not the same.
The 'dysphoria' in 'gender dysphoria' is more than just the casual meaning of dysphoria, it's a specific psychological effect. You can be dysphoric in the casual sense towards your gender, but that's not necessarily 'gender dysphoria'.
>But yes, disabled people have both an advantage and a disadvantage in that we only fix them so much, but they are more advanced through technological aiding.
Even with technological assistance, they're really not any better off than they would be without being disabled in the first place. That's why it's not really a special privilege.
>As I said, humanity must embrace neuroscience so we all can change ourselves into what we really feel like. It should be a human right to be able to shape yourself towards the things you should really be.
Sure, but it's not like people think it's "wrong" to try to be taller, but you can't just take pills that make you taller. That treatment doesnt' really exist at this point.
>>5894611
The difference between a "christian" and a "fundamentalist christian" is that a "christian" was once hit when it acted too Christian, and a "fundamentalist christian" never had that happen to them. That's all. I'm not going to laud "christians" over "fundamentalist christians" when they're merely even more cowardly, as I hate cowardice as well as Christianity. And anyway "christians" want to be "fundamentalist christians", they're just too scared. They don't do it out of any sense of morality or duty, both of which are things Christians are incapable of.
>>5894614
1. Yes I know it is, let me quote to you from wiki, I know lazy reference but I'm tired and can't be bothered to write out essays for you atm
>Dysphoria (from Greek: δύσφορος (dysphoros), δυσ-, difficult, and φέρειν, to bear) is a profound state of unease or dissatisfaction. In a psychiatric context, dysphoria may accompany depression, anxiety, or agitation. It can also refer to a state of not being comfortable in one's current body, particularly in cases of gender dysphoria.
Particularly, not exclusively
Then see pic related for mental problems that include dysphoric feelings
2. That depends on your view, look at the guy from south africa called blade runner. he started competing in the paralympics then earned is way to compete in the olympics to much dismay because his handicap and the way it was fixed was now an advantage even over people that probably drug themselves. The human body should be pushed through technology to be evolved as much as it can
3. Many people think its wrong to be short. Science shows that taller men have more successful social lives, working lives and romantic lives. I know the bullying I have had because of being short, I've always hated it. There is a procedure right now, it involves breaking the leg bones and gradually healing them and stretching, it costs shitton and people are advised to forget about it.
Take penis size, breast size, muscles, and then more extremes like furries, everyone should be allowed to transition with science to what they envision themselves as.
Transgenders are just the first step of this transhumanity.
>>5894541
funny thing i am mtf and can relate to your view so much. i feel the same except about myself and sometimes about other mtfs as well. i'm repulsed by myself no matter how feminine i get and it fuels my suicidal tendencies but i don't think staying a guy would make me happy or make me an adjusted member of society neither i think i could ever fit in, so yeah disgust is the right word
>>5894652
>2. That depends on your view, look at the guy from south africa called blade runner. he started competing in the paralympics then earned is way to compete in the olympics to much dismay because his handicap and the way it was fixed was now an advantage even over people that probably drug themselves. The human body should be pushed through technology to be evolved as much as it can
How do you reason from that that trans people get a net advantage though? Receiving treatment to compensate for a medical condition will not necessarily leave you better off than the average person.
>>5894704
I hate my body. I have hated my body for as long as I can remember, there is not a thing I like about my body, and I find every day pretty much unable to function. But I am not trans, I feel at home as a male, I just wish I could experience being a male with its full effects.
I have been in and out of therapy since I was 18 and each time it reaches a stage where they tell me to take drugs (which I have) so I can shift focus (which doesn't happen) or to learn to relax and come to terms with who I am and my body.
Already you have a net advantage over me by being trans by being told that your very similar thoughts except for wanting to be the opposite sex is true and you should get help to achieve what you want.
I'm very willing and open to discuss this and I think more people will in the future as well as the trans thing is coming more into the mainstream, more people will come out that are not trans but that also wants to change the body they hate, but not to the other side of the spectrum but more in terms with how they feel inside.
So far trans men and women are the only ones that have this net advantage. People taking plastic surgeries are often viewed as vain, and the results vary, technology needs to follow suit.
>>5894568
Wow rude, dark but also hot tbhonest
>tfw no insolent guy to dehumanize me and treat me like a disposable living fleshlight
>>5894653
Like I said it's a deep seated thing. I'm not saying mtfs would be happier as men or productive. Something inside just sees them as running away from their lot in life and detests them for it.
I have the same revulsion to people who commit suicide because life is tough.
It's tough for many people. It's those that don't power through that urk me in a weird way.
>>5894510
proper access to medical care, employment protection, and privacy in the restroom aren't rights no other groups have, they're rights other groups take for granted.
trans people and short guys aren't really comparable at all. gender dysphoria is a serious medical condition that is often disastrous if left untreated. it's not "what they say they wish they were born as." it's also not depression or an anxiety disorder, although it can and often does cause those things. even so, trans people are often made to jump through a zillion hoops for treatment, and coverage is spotty at best.
there's no "height dysphoria." if a short dude develops anxiety or depression as a result of the cultural negativity towards being short, he'll be offered antidepressants and a support group, because that's the most effective way to deal with depression. those things would also be covered under insurance/national healthcare because nobody currently feels like leaving the clinically depressed out to dry.
a short guy is also a lot less likely to get fired for being too short, or to be refused employment because of his height when it's not relevant to the job. they're trusted to pee without accusations of being a weird sex pervert (or opening a mythical loophole for perverts to peek through). they won't get refused service at private businesses. they won't be beaten half to death for not disclosing their height before a date.
these are things most cis people don't have to deal with or think about, because their rights are already protected. it's baffling that people think that demanding equal protection under the law is somehow demanding more rights than other people, and that not wanting to be treated as some sort of leprous succubus is somehow demanding special treatment. if the average person is actually that devoid of basic empathy and not just completely clueless, then fuck this gay earth, I'm voting for trump.
Because you couldn't exist without advancements in science
because no one minority group demands more out of everyone else
because even as a gay person I wouldn't fuck either final science project, ftm or mtf
because you're all really gross cam whores and sex addicts and your identity is based off of being a fetish object and people feeling sorry for you
i could go on, this is nothing you catered to rejects haven't heard before. I'm sure you love being talked to like this, take some screen caps and post it on tumblr
remove the t
>>5894470
It's a mental illness and society's misplaced importance on people's feelings in recent years has produced this environment where you can be whatever you want to be as long as you think you are that thing
that's not how reality works though. that's why you're constantly seeing people mocking you by saying they identify as a toaster for example
there is nothing wrong with being male with feminine tendencies
there is nothing wrong with being female with masculine tendencies
saying you're a female when you're a male is factually wrong though, of COURSE you're going to get backlash just like people would be calling you an idiot if you insisted that the sky is red
>>5894541
I hate faggots like you.
You have no idea what it means to be trans.
Trans is the most picked on minority in all of human civilization.
You act like begging a man or whatever is sone fucking accomplishment.
It's not. You're retarded.
Being le man is easy as fuck. It's so fucking easy that Ive only met one guy ever that I've truly respected and considered my equal.
I decided to transition because I wanted to be happy. I wanted my life not living a life where I suffer so you can tell me how I'm not suffering. Fuck you.
I've had to give up my family. My friends. My beauty. My physical safety. My reproduction capabilities. All on a fucking chance I could be myself one day and live a happy normal life.
But tell me more about how you jacked off and went to work today as a "man" and how you struggled so hard.
All men are fucking weak.
I put all of you in your place without even trying. I just did shit like sports, fucking girls, hunting, fighting people, whatever to hide my trans status and yet I excelled and was the best at it.
Men can't focus. They have no inner strength. They are just insecure nonstop.
They are controlled by their emotions and project onto others to shield themselves from this neurotic fucking insecurity. You faggots wouldn't last a single fucking day having dysphoria. You can't even handle other people's gender much less your own. When you do try anything emotional or psychological trying, you "manly men"fuckingbreak and cry about muh gf and muh virginity and you're almost all fucking /r9k/ tier cry baby pussies. Seriously. You faggots drive me crazy. Always trying to put me in the fucking role of your mommy or make me feel like some weird alpha male whose so alpha I got rid of my male body and you keep refusing to take command and keep getting to submit to me when you're supposed to take the lead. I understand why women complain so much. They've seen this all their lives and now it's shoved in my face and a year in I'm done already.
>>5894933
>giving up your safety net in life to pursue some fantasy you can never realize
>being pushed so deep into leftist ideology that you have actually become a sexist
this is sad
any normal person would read this post and recognize a deeply disturbed person
i really wish for your guys' sake that this poisonous atmosphere surrounding just DISCUSSING alternative treatments, namely treating this as gender identity disorder and not "gender dysphoria", would go away sometime soon
>>5894958
(different anon)
>namely treating this as gender identity disorder and not "gender dysphoria", would go away sometime soon
OK genius, let's hear your plan for how to treat gender identity disorder without transitioning. Let me guess, talk therapy and maybe some psych meds? Yeah, that works really well. Success rates through the roof.
I see people say this shit all the time but they never have an actual solution as to what trans people should do except kill themselves or just pretend, for everyone else's sake, that they aren't trans. And I'm not talking about little kids or people who are going through a phase and later decide they aren't trans. I'm talking about people who would actually pursue all of the shit that goes along with transitioning.
Maybe transitioning is a deeply flawed solution, but it's what we have right now, so I'm going to fucking take it and live the live I want and be happy. If, in the future, they can "cure" or treat being trans, then great. Let people who want to be cured get cured. I tried just about everything aside from suicide before I started transitioning, so it's not like I did this as my first option. Different types of therapy, different meds, years of repressing being trans and forcing myself to live as my birth sex and try to accept and be happy with it--it didn't fucking work. If it had, I wouldn't be on hormones and soon to be getting surgery.
>>5894981
your post completely proves my point that there's a poisonous atmosphere surrounding the discussion. I don't have to be a psychiatrist or neurosurgeon to recognize that were engaging in a collective denial of reality as "treatment". we don't treat schizophrenics by telling them the voices in their heads are real people. it's entirely possible that there are drugs out there that would suppress these feelings of being in the wrong body. how can we know if it's taboo to try them?
do what you want, it is your life after all, but shutting down discussion does a disservice to anyone in the future who considers a similar path
>>5894861
Transitioning takes more courage and effort than staying your birth gender though. "Running away" would be continuing to repress your feelings.
I tranny-bash because I wish I was a girl but I'm too scared to do anything about it so I try to ignore it and make fun of trannies when I get the chance.
>>5894958
See all you do as a man is fling around buzzwords and labels on me because you're fucking insecure and my presence intimidates you. You like every other manwho's an insecure little bitch has to make up flaws so you don't have to live in reality. I do what I want. I do what makes me happy. I don't give a flying fuck how utmakesyou feel. If you want to invent bullshit sour grapes shit to make yourself feel better about why tippy aren't taking charge of your life then go ahead. You just want me to fit in your convenient little bubble so you can shove your fingers in your ears going lalalala my agenda was right the whole time. There isn't anything like right and left. There's only the correct American way. Fuck you you dumb oppressive faggot. I respect your right to be a dumb fuck but im still going to call you a dumb fuck.
Also what >>5894981 said.
Fighting it just amps up my Testosterone and I literally become psychotic and violent from my body rejecting T. Ive broken my hand three times from punching brick and concrete in anger. You have no fucking clue what you're talking about. This is me completely on E and I cant even type nonaggressively. I yell at everyone.
But you don't understand. It's completely different for me on E. Estrogen in just chill and feel normal. T I was always looking for fights and had this seething fucking anger nonstop and depression. I was literally a suicidal psychotic maniac on T.
>>5895020
>accusations without evidence
opinion discarded
>>5894518
>christian
lol Because only christians want to promote offspring in families. If you have to have a boogie man you may as well have the most powerless and desecrated religion as one.
>>5895020
based on your posting you sound like a person with 0 self control no matter what you're taking
maybe it's time to grow up
>>5895030
You typed what you typed.
Stop just making shit to deflect what I said.
>shitposting cuz cant handle a mirrored reply of your same bullshit thrown back in your face
>>>/r9k/
>>5895063
maybe its time for me to shove my cock in your asshole. I wont even like it, but if it makes you cry about OH NO IM GAY NOW then Ill do it just to laugh at you. Dont worry, Im very intimate and gentle and Ill go slow. Ill even tell you how big of a penis you have.
>>5895013
Just transition, it might work out.
>>5894470
>Why is that some people are so obsessive about other people's biological sex like they have to constantly "prove" and point out what biological sex you are
Why are some people so obsessed with their biological sex they pay thousands of dollars to mutilate their bodies to try to change it?
>>5894541
>being a man is hard
>>5895540
they confuse choice with responsibility
>>5895485
>mutilate
/pol/ loves this word for some reason , even though its surgery being done by professionals.
Lots of self projecting amongst them, aka: The existence of trannies undermines "my" own "masculinity" !!!
>>5894861
Im a closet trannie and what youve expressed is the only reason I cant come out. Id hate myself for it. The dysphoria will get worse and worse yes, but im banking on there being a cure it before it gets too bad.
I bet there are a lot of closet trans trying to be productive men like Caitlyn Jenner was for this same reason.
>>5894905
>there is nothing wrong with being male with feminine tendencies
>there is nothing wrong with being female with masculine tendencies
This is wrong, though.
>>5894905
>society's misplaced importance on people's feelings in recent years has produced this environment where you can be whatever you want to be as long as you think you are that thing
This is blatantly false. HRT has been used as the primary treatment for transgenderism for far longer than the attitude you talk about has been around.
>there is nothing wrong with being male with feminine tendencies
>there is nothing wrong with being female with masculine tendencies
Do you think there's a limit to how far these tendencies should go? Like, do you think it's acceptable for someone to crossdress full time? And do you think it's okay for people to take cross-sex hormones to make their body more masculine/feminine?
>>5894958
"treating it as gender identity disorder" is NOT an "alternative treatment". It's just an obsolete term for the diagnosis which was dropped because of concerns it could be a slippery slope used to pathologize any form of gender non-conformity even when dysphoria is not present. But even back when it was called gender identity disorder the main treatment was HRT. The majority of "alternative treatments" were tried decades ago and found to be ineffective, and there haven't really been any new ideas to try since then. Usually the people pushing "alternative treatments" are basically pushing conversion therapy, well known to be nothing more than pseudoscience. There was that one pimozide study too, however that was found impossible to replicate, and had only a sample size of one to begin with. In other words, nothing has been found to be more effective than HRT, which is why HRT is still used. That's how science and medicine work, you don't toss out something effective in favor of something less effective.
>>5894994
Such drugs have been tried, they're not effective. Likewise, just because there are some vague similarities between the symptoms of GD and schizophrenia doesn't mean they can be treated effectively. That's like saying "ship sinkings and cancer can both kill people, therefore lifeboats can treat cancer."
And your talk about "collective denial of reality" is nothing more than an emotive argument. I get it, you have ideological issues with the treatment. But it's what works the best, choosing ineffective treatments simply because they're more ideologically palatable goes against the very basic principles of the medical profession.
>>5895043
The vast majority of religious fundamentalists opposing appropriate medical treatment of trans people are Christians. And it's not like refusing them treatment are going to "promote offspring", most trans people are too dysphoric to reproduce anyhow.
>>5896152
What's so wrong about it?
>>5894933
I feel your pain.
>>5896229
>What's so wrong about it?
There will always be people who believe liberal gender roles undermine the fabric of society. These people defend that belief by strictly enforcing heteronormativity. Everything else is irrelevant except that they exist in large numbers and always will. See Unwin's Sex and Culture.
>>5894873
>thinks trannies are a recent thing all of a sudden and not a condition that has existed throughout cultures and history and is just now getting more adequate treatment
lol
>because no one minority group demands more out of everyone else
Bigots say the same kinda shit about gay people tho, you're just "mentally ill and forcing your degenerate lifestyles in peoples' faces and demanding special attention/acceptance/rights"
>because you're all really gross cam whores and sex addicts and your identity is based off of being a fetish object and people feeling sorry for you
Again, the same old shit bigots say about you too.
Your lack of self-awareness would be pretty funny if it weren't so sad.
>>5894653
>>5894861
>>5895007
>>5896128
>>5894541
I agree with this as well.
I don't know if it's just specific to where I grew up but I've never met a woman who is responsible and gets things done when they need to be done. I've met guys who are like that too, but of the people who are responsible and on top of things all of them are guys.
So succumbing to these thoughts is just a revolting idea. But it still hurts very badly that I know I can never be female. I'm trapped and cant' do anything about it.
