what are the tactical advantages a pistol caliber carbine over an AR-15 for law enforcement?
all i can think of is
>same ammunition as an officers pistol
>interchangeable magazines
>low recoil/faster follow up shots
>good for within 100 yards
>mechanically less complex as a patrol rifle
>some pccs dont look as scary/militaristic as an AR-15, so people wont be rustled over the militarization of police
>the ammunition is less prone to over penetrating compared to .223 rem/5.56 nato
>works fine on unarmored threats
>easier to shoot than a pistol
i can imagine a situation in which a patrol officer has time to create distance between him and an un armored threat in a crowded area so he can shoot the threat without the round over penetrating, with rapid follow up shots
>>30619595
the issue is that they would be SOL if they needed to shoot vehicles or people hiding behind barriers, which i imagine happens quite often.
>>30619595
99.99% of the suspects police will be required to fire upon will be unarmored.
>>30619595
>>low recoil/faster follow up shots
not really
>>some pccs dont look as scary/militaristic as an AR-15, so people wont be rustled over the militarization of police
so paint your ARs purple
>>the ammunition is less prone to over penetrating compared to .223 rem/5.56 nato
this is 100% fuddlore, tests have shown the opposite, way to continue the propagation of bullshit
Do revolver caliber carbines count? They pack a lot more oomph than a .223 on soft targets but don't penetrate as well.
>>30619595
absolutely none.
>>30619614
Sure they're not wearing a bulletproof vest but you could consider a car or walls of a house armor. There are shootouts like those all the time.
>>30619623
>Police start carrying cowboy weapons everywhere
>>30619638
9mm absolutely can penetrate a car door.
>>30619595
Kinda off topic here, but if a 9mm round is travelling 22% faster, and the carbine clearly cannot add mass to the projectile, how does it achieve 50% more energy?
>>30619622
>>the ammunition is less prone to over penetrating compared to .223 rem/5.56 nato
this is 100% fuddlore, tests have shown the opposite, way to continue the propagation of bullshit
would a 115 grain 9mm fmj stop inside a threat at 100 yards? asking for a friend.
>>30619595
>same ammunition as an officers pistol
Yeah, saves money.
>interchangeable magazines
Yeah...
>low recoil/faster follow up shots
Okay...
>good for within 100 yards
Compaired to intermediate and full-power rifles? Noooooo.
>mechanically less complex as a patrol rifle
Debatable. Most of the times, no.
>some pccs dont look as scary/militaristic as an AR-15, so people wont be rustled over the militarization of police
The gun could look like a balloon animal and they'll still find a reason to demonilze it.
>the ammunition is less prone to over penetrating compared to .223 rem/5.56 nato
No. This is also depending on the ammunition. There is more 5.56 made to not over-penetrate than pistol rounds.
>works fine on unarmored threats
Not as fine as a rifle.
>easier to shoot than a pistol
True.
>>30619643
>start
There are some places out west where the cops still carry revolvers.
>>30619658
ballisitc energy is determined by mass and speed.
a 115 grain projectile going 1000 fps produces about 255 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle and a 115 grain projectile going 2000 fps produces over 1000 foot pounds of energy
the longer barrel of a carbine allows the powder to burn for more time which makes the projectile faster
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/bullet-kinetic-energy.php
>>30619660
>would a 115 grain 9mm fmj stop inside a threat at 100 yards? asking for a friend.
Narrow down the variables. What speed is that round when exiting the barrel? What is the size of the target--stick and bones somalian, or 500lb burgerclap? Are we accounting for possible ricocheting off a bone? Are we assuming no bones are hit (stomach instead of punching through ribs)?
ANYWAYS: probably not.
>>30619692
I understand these things, my point was the mass is the same, rather the bullet is coming from a pistol or a carbone, the ad says 22% increased velocity, so assuming mass is constant a 22% increase in velocity would result in a proportionate 22% increase in energy.
>>30619715
at the muzzle it s going 1400 fps, the the threat is 5'10 160 pound man
going through the breast bone.
>>30619734
Mass times impact velocity squared.
An increase in speed results in a larger energy increase than a proportionally similar increase in mass would.
A projectile that's twice as heavy and going the same speed is less dangerous than one with half as much mass going twice the speed.
>>30619756
I figured it out, I was confusing the force formula with the energy formula.
>>30619742
Probably not, on a typical shot. FMJ is preeeetty shite for stopping in a target.
>>30619595
None anymore, but they're fun for taking innawoods and plinking.
>what are the tactical advantages a pistol caliber carbine over an AR-15 for law enforcement?
You're forgetting
>Can practice at any indoor range, such as the ones that police stations often conveniently have, so the lazy pigs might actually fucking learn to hit something.
After over 500 years of getting shot, modern humans have evolved into bullet resistant mammals. It is well understood by the scientific community that muzzleloaders are ineffective against current year humans which is why Joseph Stalin issued breech loading firearms using smokeless death powder (made in 700k BC by Peking man) in 1476. John Moses created the semi automatic Glock 17 in 1776 as a means for law enforcement to shoot peons until officers can get their rifle caliber rifle reinforcement squad semi automatic assault rifle. Jesus always knew that 1000 Joules of penetrating power was the bare minimum required to reliably stop a cro magnon man which is why the most powerful leos in this country rely on bolt action fudd rifles to deliver death to the most evil peasants (rapists and tax evaders).
>>30620075
Trying too hard, son.
>>30619658
E=(1/2M)*v^2
>>30619595
Makes logistical sense, if 9mm out of a 16" barrel is no good then neither is .357 magnum.
Cops don't need any more than this, their job is to enforce the law, their weapons are to defend themselves and other civilians.
Once they start playing soldier, they let that shit get to their heads and go on the warpath.
>>30620153
Some rural cops use ARs or shotguns to mercy kill deer that get hit by cars and left in the road.
>>30619622
What. A smaller projectile traveling at a significantly higher speed doesn't penetrate as much?
>>30620075
I keked but you tried way too hard.
>don't forget ones built up bullet tolerance
>it's genetic so ask your dad what his caliber was and build up from there.
I have a Beretta Storm Carbine, Anon, and its fucking cool.
>Takes same magazine as a M9,
>Rapid and controllable fire;
>Simple blowback so feeds anything;
>No where as much blast as a 5.56mm.
>>30620255
I'm no expert, but I'd assume that a small bullet hitting something at very high speed would shatter and dissipate a lot of its kinetic energy. A bigger bullet at lower speeds would potentially stay intact and have the ability to penetrate deeper.
I think it would depends on the medium, too. Small and fast defeats a single, hard barrier like a plate better, whereas targets with less resistance, but more depth like sandbags would be easier to penetrate for a bigger, slower bullet that stays intact and "drills" through it.
But what do I know.
>>30619595
One big problem is accuracy. Once you move past 50 yards, pistol rounds are going to start acting funny. A rifle round is designed to maintain accuracy over a long distance, a pistol round is not.
I've run plenty of rounds through your pic, in 9mm and .45, and there's no point in taking them over to the 100 yard bench.
>>30620603
A light bullet going very fast will have high energy. Energy=mass x velocity squared. A heavier bullet going slower will have about the same kinetic energy but it will have much higher momentum. Momentum=mass x velocity.
This is why hunters use heavy grain ammo for dangerous game. A 220 grain 30 06 delivers similar kinetic energy to a 150 grain 30 06 but the 220g has much higher momentum which translates into deeper penetration and a more rainbow like trajectory.
>>30619650
But will it reliably do so? What is the deviation like through auto glass? These are all real issues with PCCs. This question of why don't cops use PCCs came up in a Primary and Secondary podcast with Gary Roberts and he basically laughed. His opinion is if you're gonna carry a long gun use a real fucking rifle caliber, and it makes sense to me.
>>30620153
You do realize criminals use long guns in intermediate calibers to shoot at cops, right?
Wouldn't it be more advantageous for police to start using 5.56 pistols? Less worry about over penetration combined with mag compatibility.
>>30619595
Shared ammo, shared mags. Compact size, easier for all officers to handle. Smaller muzzle flash/sound report (talking mostly about shorty 5.56ers here). Smaller package and lighter. It really just depends on what you want. PCCs are pretty awesome, but the problem is that most people compare them wrongly to rifles. They are not, they are a small tool for a closer jobs.
>>30619595
speaking of pistol caliber carbines, would a 50ae be good for anything
>>30619766
>force formula
It's momentum. Force by itself doesn't mean anything.
>>30621272
>TFW no .50ae MP5
>>30621428
>MP.50AE
I'd buy it
>>30621444
Would break shoulder and spray like a motherfucker if it was full auto, but it would be fun.
There's plenty but they aren't adopted because police departments /want/ to be militaries.
>>30621566
>>30621444
>>30621428
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/12.7mm_submachine_gun
>>30621719
That looks retarded.
>>30621809
As do you.
>>30620581
I have one in .40. Not as cool as the 9mm one, but it does the job. Serves it's purpose as a home defense gun.
