Why aren't caseless cartridges weapons more popular /k/?
What are the pros and cons?
When the barrel gets hot, it will go off when a round is chambered.
Thats the big one I believe.
what are the cons of cased cartridges
Caseless ammunition is an attempt to reduce the weight and cost of ammunition by dispensing with the case, which is typically precision made of brass or steel, as well as to simplify the operation of repeating firearms by eliminating the need to extract and eject the empty case after firing. Its acceptance has been hampered by problems with production expenses, heat sensitivity, sealing, and fragility. Its use to date has been limited to prototypes and low-powered firearms.
>>30617096
Weight.
>>30617096
Weight and size i guess, compared to caseless.
When you have to carry 200 rounds all that brass makes a difference.
>>30617101
Yeah, we can check wikipedia too.
>>30617096
If you want to compare cons against caseless, then cased is heavier, much larger in size, and the brass lays on the ground after is fired which isnt very efficient.
>>30617076
Pro: German space gun porn with futuristic ammo designed to kill more children per children.
Con: Too complicated for the average grunt on the ground.
>>30617096
the weight of the cases?
Will polymer cased ammo become a thing, or will it stay shit? How good a heatsink is the polymer case?
Just never really caught on.
Germans didn't adopt the G11 pretty much only because of reunification and the massive cost associated with it. They had to go with the cheaper G36.
>>30617094 This problem was already solved by the replacement of the propellant with i special type of RDX (which is not heat sensitive) instead of regular powder.
>>30617101
As he said, the actual rounds are pretty fragile and if they get damaged at all, in something like the G11 they can cause on hell of jam. Although if it's not too bad you just crack the round out and it drops right out.
A while ago on Larry Vickers' facebook page he posted the slides from a presentation a friend of his made on caseless ammo, the fried had extensive experience working with the G11 in particular and highlighted the problems with it.
>>30617076
we had this thread yestrday, lurkmoar
pro's:
slightly better accuracy
significant reduction in ammo weight
cons:
the cost
increades wear on barrels
overheating
issues with innitil ammo production
Cursory research says that aluminum cased ammunition has issues with melting. Do high temperature alloys sufficiently resolve the issue, or is the heat capacity of aluminum/alloy insufficient for cooling the weapon?
>>30617096
Weight. Yes, literally "muh noodle hands can't carry this shit" tier of excuses, so instead of equipping every soldier with 40mm automatic cannon we're thinking of adopting caseless ammo, fucking faggots everywhere.
>>30617396
Additional research shows that the thermal conductivity of brass and aluminum alloys are comparable, with a slight heat capacity advantage to brass. An equivalent heat capacity aluminum case should be 58% lighter than a brass cartridge with ~30% more volume of metal - which hardly looks like a problem.
And so I'm still at a loss. If you want to save weight, why not design a new round around an aluminum case?
>>30617503
the thing with weight is carrying an identical load lets you carry like 3X the amount of ammo. More ammo is good.
>>30617503
The weight situation with the average grunt's gear is getting bad enough that their boots have higher ground pressures than main battle tanks. We're losing troops to early retirement due to leg injuries. Reducing weight is a good idea.
>>30617515
>>30617518
Nope. Learn to shoot faggots, instead of spraying, praying and crying because MUH RECOIL. And work out instead of complaining about muh weight.
>>30617521
>>30617521
T. Bench Queen
>caseless thread
>no mention of LSAT
Son, I am disappoint.
>>30617076
Mechanical complexity.
Cartridges are brittle, sensitive to moisture, and have an expiration date, transporting and stockpiling them is an issue.
Not to talk about the fact that requiring a battery for firing is a liability and there's further concerns about that.
>>30617094
Dynamit Nobel and H&K solved that problem.
>>30617511
Because aluminum case ammo is generally iffy.
Blazer is a brand which produces aluminum cased pistol cartridges, this works, sort of.
The thing with it is that it has inconsistent reliability, some guns eat it fine, some guns hate it, and it's not always clear why.
And this isn't a military concern, but you generally can't reload aluminum case, it's too flimsy.
Why haven't we made biodegradeable cases?
>>30617076
Because cases protect the powder from sweat, rain, and being sat on at the wrong angle.
Caseless is retarded.
>>30617683
They couldn't fix gas jet cutting tho. The G11 jammed like a Hipoint from the 1980s, and when it didn't jam it blew up.
CT-polymer is the future. Caseless is for muzzleloaders.
>>30617739
There were cardboard K31 clips. If we can get cardboard mags and biodegradable ammo you can perform environmentally-friendly tac reloads
>>30617761
>CT-polymer is the future.
This. or +1 or whatever the kids are into these days... GO this...
>>30617739
War a tendency to not be environmentally friendly
>>30617303
is that RDX stuff Waterproof?
>>30617076
Had the thought the other day. Have propellant/case development reached its peak?
Will a straight walled, smaller diameter case with more energetic propellant not offer similar ballistics? With better metallurgy etc.
I know nothing about this so just talking bullshit. Anyone with better knowledge?
>>30617761
>CT-polymer is the future
Polymer bullets?
>>30617367
This guy has it.
The big one is overheating, though. Having that nice, ejectable metal heatsink with a cased round is a surprising boon for reducing overheating.
>>30618879
Considering the tech leaps made during war that can contribute to future "green" tech post-war. Just a thought I had.
Well the pro is dat it lacks a case but the con is that it doesn't have one.
Caseless is obsolete, the future is straight walled cartridges.
>http://z4.invisionfree.com/NSDraftroom/ar/t7443.htm
>>30620135
Wtf is munathanura?
>>30617286
The big problem with polymer is that it usually doesn't end up being much cheaper (depending on the actual case design, the most promising are two part cases with a metallic head) and has some major downsides such as greater sensitivity to rough handling, it makes a less effective heatsink (can be alleviated with certain polymers or by using an additive with a higher thermal capacity), past attempts have had issues with sticking in a hot chamber, cartridges being torn apart by the action of the firearm, cartridges being damaged by the feed system (mag or belt), and cartridges cracking when harder polymers are used.
I actually have some polymer cased, polymer jacketed 38 Specials from the 80's that my father left me. They are garbage, though I will see if I can find one.
>>30617076
soon
>>30617511
Aluminium doesn't have the same lubricity nor the elasticity to shrink a tiny bit once the boom phase has ended and reduce friction.
That's why steel cased ammo works better than aluminum.
Aluminium cases work just OK. I'd rather not use them if my life depends on it.
>>30617076
Pros:
Light
Smaller volume
More space efficient to store
Cons:
Easier to damage
Heat sensitivity on older cartridges
More expensive
Because the brass cartridge isn't there to help seal the chamber tolerances on gun parts are tighter.
If the US DOD kick a couple million, though these days it would probably be several billion or trillion, they could easily fix any problems with the shells, not entirely unlikely since they have been interested in the weight reduction it can provide soldiers in full combat gear.
>>30620524
The future was yesterday, most have just forgotten to remember.
>>30617076
for as long as you need the bullet to have the energy source, this won't be worth it.
prove me wrong.
>>30620728
On the contrary, I remembered to forget.
>>30620789
Much as the Dardick should be.
>>30618896
RDX is water soluble in its pure, unstable crystalline form, but in a stable form such as C4 it's completely waterproof
