9mm defensive load
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Hey /newtogunz/ here I was wondering what the best 9mm defensive loads are.
I'm assuming lower grains means a lighter bullet so is that what I should go for in an urban area to reduce penetration?
Federal 124 gr 9mm HST or 124 gr 9mm HST +P if your pistol is +P rated.
This is my carry ammo, works great in my shield.
>>30609123
>>30609178
Can a glock 19 shoot +p rounds?
>>30609202
Shouldn't be a problem.
>>30609123
this except 147gr because it's better
P9HST2 or P9HST4
>>30609202
Shouldn't be an issue really, I don't know about +P+ though. Just don't go batshit with your case pressure.
>>30609099
115gr Critical Defense if you're not after subsonic and you are worried about over-penetration
>>30609238
It depends on what you're shooting it out of, but yeah generally HSTs are god tier
Heavier bullets penetrate less, lighter bullets are faster and penetrate more.
Any flavor of HST
Any flavor of Ranger-Ts
Gold Dots are pretty decent if you can't find those.
Everything else is shit by comparison
Above all, buy a box of at least 50 and make sure your gun will reliably feed it, some guns are picky little fagtots about different types of hollow points. To alleviate this, simply buy a glock. Happy groid hunting.
>>30609099
.357 sig. Any other caliber is for niggers.
I got good deal on 124gr Speer Gold Dots a while back. I've been using them since.
Anything premium should be fine, OP. Just practice, some guns can still have issues with certain hollow point profiles or other shit. Don't want to find out at the wrong time that your gun is a jam-o-matic.
>>30609254
Yo dog we heard you dont like you hollowpoints clogging so we clogged them for you with a pencil eraser so theyre pre clogged and dont clog dog
Hornady is shit
>>30609202
Yeah. I load Hornady Critical Duty 135gr +p in mine and it feeds and shoots beautifully
>>30609333
>>30609285
>>30609244
It's a glock 19 4th gen. So I should be safe to shoot 124 hst +p without just fucking my shit up senpai?
I personally carry Speer Gold Dots.
There's a lot of good reviews and testing on youtube showing better results than Federal HST and others.
>>30609514
Absolutely. 99% of blow'd up guns are from dumbasses trying to handload a bazooka round into their shit, or not loading powder, having a bullet lodged in the barrel, then shooting another bullet bebind it
>>30609331
I run 357sig gold dot in my P229 and P9HST2 in my P938
>>30609099
lower grain means less mass of the actual bullet which means faster, lightweight bullet which means more initial penetration
>>30609331
Nice meme caliber
>>30609611
I'd say speer gold dots but they aren't Carharrt rated anymore.
How come nobody recommends corbon? I carry their 115g and have never had an issue with it.
I just got my first fun after reading a lot, I went with sp2022 9mm. I am in love with this hobby.
Got a membership at a range and the guys working it were extremely helpful to a nub. I didn't know where else to put this but god bless you guys that are helpful to noobs who have no fucking clue where to start. I got some sig 9mm jhp to keep the post relevant. Are hollow point a meme?
>>30610036
HP's are a must for carrying for protection, but if you're just going to the range to shoot i would recommend bulking up on fmj's and just get a few boxes of HP's to test the reliability of the gun with those loads. Happy shooting anon.
>>30609099
This is a no-debate questions.
124gr Federal HST. If you're a bitch and expect to engage bad guys in a crowd, 124gr Federal HST +P. Look at the FBI standard gel tests on youtube and gun forums and weigh them out -- it really is the best out there for 9mm.
If you can't find either locally and/or cheap, use ammoseek.com and search for it. 50 rounds can be had for about $30 (shipping included).
Alternatives are +P Gold Dots, either Speer or Underwood. Both bullets were designed by the same guy, and HST's are somewhat better.
Often one will find 115gr bullets will be a little less accurate than 124gr bullets, FYI. There is usually less bullet to engage the rifling and some other physics stuff involved. I'd avoid anything lighter than 124gr for a carry round. 147gr in HST or Gold Dot performs well, but if you're looking for sufficient-yet-truncated penetration, 147gr bullets of either type often carry energy a little further through tissue and out again. It's almost not worth considering any other bullet design given the parameters of your question. 124gr is the sweet spot.
>>30609238
OP specifically mentions overpenetration. 124gr HSTs are far more consistent and carry energy slightly shorter than the 147gr'ers. They dump more energy in a shorter (but not too short) space, like 16 inches on the dot, over and over.
>>30609321
>Heavier bullets penetrate less, lighter bullets are faster and penetrate more.
THIS IS TOTAL BULLSHIT, OP. DO NOT LISTEN TO THIS RETARD. WATCH A MILLION GEL TEST VIDEOS OR THROW AND EMPTY POP CAN AT A CURTAIN VS. A FULL POP CAN. THIS GUY IS A NOGUNZ FAGGOT.
>>30609611
As a 9mm shooter/carrier, the .357 SIG is a better calliber, but not by much. Not by the 28% fewer rounds per mag capacity, and def not by double the price per round much. If I was a 1%'er who could print everywhere in all the places I owned, I'd rock a .357 SIG. As it stands, I'm happy with 9mm and 124gr HST's.
>>30609599
Kinda pretty much wrong. An explosive 4" of penetration is meaningless if literally everything you hit is 4" or more. Heavier bullets with the same charge behind them travel farther (unless you're retarded and carrying FMJ's). For any expanding bullet of the same type, a heavier bullet will expand less vs. it's mass and travel farther. Do some goddamn research.
I'm in the same boat as you
Federal HST, Speer Gold Dot, and Winchester Ranger T seem to be the general standards.
Just ordered some HST 124gr +P and gold dot 124gr +P to test out in an M&P compact I just got
I ordered 50 round boxes of each from ammunition depot, but most online places have similar prices, and you get a hell of a lot better deal if you get 50 round boxes than 20 round boxes, generally speaking
>>30609099
If you use anything other than 9BPLE you are a lady
>>30610036
This might help you choose your next carry ammo.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
>>30609514
Completely safe. I personally carry 124gr HST standard pressure for deeper penetration in exchange for slightly less physical tissue damage, but Glocks are happily +P rated.
>>30612198
Or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lGqdMdbir0
...and this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COVoBwR1oww
Literally if someone isn't carrying (9mm) HST's or Gold Dots (unless they have a specific situational/legal need for Lehigh xtreme defense/penetrators or Federal Guard Dog), they're basing their choice on Fudd hype and marketing. Data-wise, HST and Gold Dot are the best out there. Everything else falls behind. I don't trust Lucky Gunner's results simply because they "found" Golden Sabers were top tier, while every other tester everywhere has found otherwise. Also, they're the guys with a warehouse of ammo to sell -- guess what old defensive ammunition brands they probably have too much of?
>>30609099
200g +P FMJ
Is a WWII production Walther P38 ok for +P rounds, or should I play it safe?
>>30609826
This
Specifically the DPX rounds. In every ballistics test I have seen on them, they reach full expansion and at least 12" penetration. Cant go wrong with them.
>>30613021
>at least 12" penetration
>Cant go wrong with them.
>>30613157
Do you even know what gel ballistics are?
>>30609099
I like Hornady XTP
>>30609099
>>30609123
147gr is objectively superior, bigger expansion and still moving over 1000fps. I have agree with tnoutdoors9 on youtube about this.
>>30609099
See this playlist
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgNSGOEQko_M90AMdRCDMgd-w4Yozc27i
Let me say something in this thread that cannot be disputed.
Underwood ammo sells the hottest loads. So if you're looking for good 9mm, I'd recommend the 124gr +p gold dots from underwoods site.
Assuming your gun can handle +p.
it literally doesnt matter, everything everyone is arguing about here are just a few percent differences across the board
>>30613803
>reads OP, decides it doesn't matter
>clicks on it
>reads what other people say
>decides that doesn't matter either
>tells them this
are you a faggot? :^)
>>30609238
>except 147gr because it's better
but its not you dumb cunt.
>P9HST1
is the literal absolute best load you can carry. Go check the ATK LE website. 147gr fails to meet the performance of 124gr in every aspect there is, penetration, expansion, velocity, everything.
the only reason for the 147gr HST is for supressed.
>>30613798
Is a beretta 92 +p rated? What abou a shield?
>>30609343
>Hornady is shit
this. plastic-tipped ammo belongs where it was originally intended for: Sabot blackpowder slugs.
>>30611495
you pretty much hit the nail on the head, except
>124gr Federal HST +P
the 50fps you gain (.5" extra penetration) isnt worth it in terms of the extra recoil and powder flash. The Germans werent fuckin around with 9mm and finding its perfect loadout. 124gr is top dog with 9mm. +P if you have a metal/metal gun
>>30613856
what does it feel like to be born wrong and live wrong like you ?
>>30613912
>states that +p increase +~50fps isn't worth it
>turns around and chooses 124gr over 147 because iincrease +~50fps
>thinks 147gr moving at over 1000fps is subsonic
are you retarded?
>>30613914
http://www.le.vistaoutdoor.com/wound_ballistics/load_comparison/load_comparison.aspx
now drop to your knees and suck this cock.
>>30613946
>turns around and chooses 124gr over 147 because iincrease +~50fps
>thinks 147gr moving at over 1000fps is subsonic
are you fuckin retarded? Go look up some stats before you come spouting bullshit.
>>30613969
>learn my pronouns and read my holy book
No. Your shit's all gay, and you talk retarded. :^))
>>30609099
>I was wondering what the best 9mm defensive loads are
That would be .45ACP
>>30614000
How painful would that be
Thinking about trying it but would but probably just expose taint to restaurant before breaking ankle
>>30614094
Realistically you would probably break your taint and expose your ankle
What defensive load should I pick if my 9mm won't cycle if I even look at something that isn't a federal FMJ ball?
>>30614234
Your post didn't make any fucking sense, put down the bottle and try again. Use your words.
>>30614234
a new pistol.
if thats not an option and your pistol reliably fires only one type of ammo, then just get and use that ammo
>>30609781
>I'd say speer gold dots but they aren't Carharrt rated anymore.
hurp durp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4FqEEgq9eA
>>30613705
Informative but inaccurate when applied to the unique environment of the human body.
>>30609123
you forgot winchester ranger SXT 147 grain +p and gold dots
>>30614428
Did anyone ever think that maybe cops lie sometimes?
Can a beretta 92fs centurion handle p+? I recently ordered a couple boxes of federal 147 HST and this thread is getting me worried...
>>30614234
Sounds like your best bet is gonna be the FMJ round noses then. If your gun is that unreliable then go with what works. I'd recommend upgrading to a new self defense weapon though.
>>30614268
His gun won't cycle if he isn't using FMJ ball ammo. Not at all difficult to understand, and it was even a complete sentence with proper grammar. Don't be a dick, especially if you're stupid.
Is frangible ammo a meme, or would it be usefull something like this where low wall-penetration is a priority?
>>30614693
I teach English for a living, and you are wrong.
>>30614602
Only sometimes?
>>30614732
There's no way you're an English teacher with such shitty reading comprehension.
>>30609099
>Anno Domini 2016
>Not using .50 African Eliminator
>>30614638
Should be fine, most overpressure explosions either happen with old firearms or reloaders that don't have any idea what they are doing. Any factory +p load should be good to go in newer firearms. Shoot without worries anon.
>>30614786
Keep being mad kid.
In my M&P, the sights (white dots) are bang on level across when I use 147gr. When I use 115gr, my front sight dot needs to be raised up almost on top of the rear sights. I use 147gr.
>>30615304
whoa whoa whoa, no need to be mad now.
>>30614695
Meme
>>30615323
What? I think you have the wrong post.
>>30615352
Nah NOT the wrong post, mad kid.
OP, ammo choice is personal and based on opinion and individual desires. This is my list of choices and reasons. All my choices are Standard Pressure. Plus P ammo is good I just prefer Standard. First choice is a tie between Speer Gold Dot and Federal HST in 124 grain. The expansion and penetration are similar, and damn close to being the same. The Speer Gold Dot set the standard for defensive ammo and bonded bullets in particular. The copper jackets are electroplated to the lead core. The Federal HST is not bonded but the expansion results would make someone think it is. It could be argued that the HST slightly outperforms the Gold Dot. I cannot choose a favorite between the two. I prefer the 20 round commercial boxes because they are marked as personal defense or personal protection ammo. Second choice is Hornady Critical Defense 115 grain. It is very mild shooting, accurate, mild penetration and controlled expansion. It was designed to defeat heavy clothing and meant as a defensive round for the average person. The box is marked “defense” and it is market in advertisements and the company catalog as defensive ammunition. Third choice is the Hornady XTP 115 grain sold as the Custom JHP or American Gunner line. The XTP is also mild shooting, known for accuracy and controlled expansion. The American Gunner line is advertised and listed in the company catalog as useful for target practice, competition, recreational shooting/plinking and self defense. Fourth choice is the Hornady Critical Duty in 135 grains. I list it last solely due to the fact that every box is marked as Duty Ammo for police. It is still good ammo and useful for defense. My primary choices are made due to packaging, advertisements and marketing as defensive or protective ammunition. The Critical Duty might take a little more work with a Jury should the worse come to pass. I would advise you to view the ammo tests on YouTube, particularly TNOutdoors9 and ShootingTheBull410.
>>30609099
The reason there are so many options is because nobody knows what the fuck they are doing or why. 115 grain, 124 grain, 147 grain...there is no empirical reason to prefer one over the other when heavier bullets are compromised with reduced projectile velocities.
>>30616960
There can be a reason as some pistols, especially compact, prefer the heavier grains. But otherwise, meh. I've heard heavier = more gooder barrier penetration, but they generally do withing 2 inches of each other in gel tests.
>>30612940
I don't know, but don't even attempt it pls, P38s are expensive as it is and we dont need people driving up the value.
And by we I mean poorfag wehrboos like me.
>>30609099
>TFW can't have 9mm
Hst 147 gr +p in a glock 19.
>>30609202
I've had no issues with mine, and I've used a variety of manufacturers over the years.
>>30609099
Personally I stock up on 124 grain gold Dots and Federal HSTs. I have some 147 grain, and buy 124 +p sparingly.
>>30613856
nice argument, tool
Let's see some citations
>>30613946
147gr at normal pressure is subsonic you ignorant slut.
>>30609244
My Glock has +P+ loaded.
shoots em just fine
Has anyone been able to find this stuff yet? I already load 147gr HST in my Shield but after watching tnoutdoors9 video on it I wanna try it out since it's on par with the 147gr while reducing muzzle flash and felt recoil.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYTd1lNx_TQ
>>30618414
Interesting, I hadn't heard about those yet. The MV is too slow for my liking, think I'll stick with P9HST2 for my P938:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3VfWkWMzOI
>>30609099
>I'm assuming lower grains means a lighter bullet
Big nope right there compadre, grains are like shotgun gauge where smaller actually means larger.
A 9mm with 90 grains of gunpowder means that it only takes 90 grains the powder to fill up the 9mm diameter of the shell case.
A 9mm with 124 grains of powder would need 124 grains to fill up the case.
Less grains means bigger grains, bigger grains mean a bigger explosion which makes the bullet stronger.
>>30618531
Terrible troll or complete moron. Don't listen to this guy, OP.
>>30609331
>G32 gen 3
>.357 sig master race
I love how superior we are to everyone else who don't own a pistol chambered for the pinnacle of ballistics
>>30616960
Heavier is less velocity sensitive with regards to penetration. If you shoot something like the Corbon DPX 115 +P out of a MP5 or a similar pistol caliber carbine, you will see that the added velocity from extra barrel length results in fast expansion and very marginal penetration, just barely squeaking past 12" in bare gel, despite the fact that it performs well from a regular barrel length pistol. Meanwhile 147 gr 9mm will penetrate very comparably out of a PCC or handguns of various barrel lengths.
>>30618592
You can't really prove me wrong though.
>Moron
Yeah fuck you
>>30618610
I know, I feel the power radiating off of my hip. Women are confused when they don't know why they end up grinding up on my hip.
>>30618659
I can't prove you wrong about your inane statement that grains are an inverse measurement for size of gunpowder and not a unit of measurement for weight?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grain_(unit)
>>30618414
Saw these at a local gun store a couple of weeks ago. Considered picking some up to test in my PPS, but figured I would watch some videos.
According to the video, it performs like 147 standard pressure, but has less muzzle flash, maybe less felt recoil too?
>>30618724
>Wikipedia
Yeah anyone can edit that, no offense or trolling but that's not proof.
>>30618747
Actually, that's bollocks, that sort of wikipedia page area little altering and any altering is noticed, it also has footnotes and sources.
Screaming 'wikipedia can be altered waaaah' is just lazy.
>>30609099
>reduce penetration
Enjoy your cultural enrichment.
If it doesnt pass the 12 inch test its garbage. If it does pass the 12 inch test itll go through 2 sheets of drywall. Firing a gun when you dont have a propper backstop is inherantly dangerous. Deal with it.
>>30618763
You're most likely arguing with a noguns, or someone that pays well over a gun's valiewhile bragging about how much his collection is worth... and still doesn't know shit about shit.
>>30618790
Post yfw 77gr SMK doesn't pass the magical "12 inches or it is just a water gun" test.
>>30618881
It's not like 77gr SMK is supposed to be a super manstopper. The variability in terminal effect based on the diameter of the hollow point has been studied. It's a good projectile for precision shooting dudes but don't load it in a CQB type carbine unless it's what you have.
>>30618823
>Nogunz
Excuse me I own a Maverick 88, a Winchester 1400, and a Baikal and I shoot every week. I can guarantee when shit hits the fan I'm going to be the one able to survive off the land, good luck hunting and fishing with a tacticool flock or GayAR chambered in some boutique round.
>Over values my guns
My collection cost less than $700 and a shotgun is all I will ever need.
>>30618881
12 inches is the minimum for a reliable physical stop. You can easily kill people with it but youre going to wish you had gone with something that could actually reach the cns when you get stabbed before the guy you shot bleeds out.
>>30618763
he's obviously trolling, let it go
Can anybody recommend some good carry ammo for a Mak? I'm using Silver Bear 94gr hp right now, anything better?
Speer Gold Dot, Federal Hydrashock and Hornady Critical Defense
>>30618952
Then what should a person use for .223/5.56 ammo?
>hesitant to believe anything posted in this thread because of the utter bullshit I've seen posted in regards to 9mm
>probably not even trolls, just idiots too dumb to realize their stupidity
>>30619291
Something like Federal TBBC 62 gr (XM556FBIT3), Winchester 64 gr bonded (Q3313/RA556B), Speer 64 gr Gold Dot.
>>30619318
What's the difference in Speer 55gr/64gr/75gr? I just got some of (one of those 3 but I'll wait to say so as not to bias) and I'm wondering why you say the 64 gr specifically.
>>30619291
M193 still the best (devastating wounds within 200y) but I also have the Winchester 64gr bonded mentioned in >>30619318
>>30619332
I don't like 55gr b/c I don't like 1/9 twist. I didn't recommend 75gr because I don't know as much about it as the 64gr loading. It seems to be good based on what DocGKR and others are saying.
>>30619364
>I don't like 55gr b/c I don't like 1/9 twist
55gr works just fine out of 1:7 and 1:8 barrels.
I personally like the Cor Bon 115 JHPs in my full size Canik and the 124 Short Barrel Speer Gold Dots in my Kahr PM9.
This link has a ton of testing info and even pictures of the recovered rounds.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
>>30619841
I agree that it works fine but higher weight projectiles are less likely to suffer precision loss from "overstabilization". Not a big deal but if you can choose I would prefer going for the appropriate weight for the twist.
>>30609343
Switched hollow points because of this.
>>30620290
>overstabilization
55gr is good up to 300 yards with 1/7. If you're going to fight a longer distance, you need a bolt gun at that point.
Swiss 9mm FMJ
Because only a fucking retard would want less penetration when fighting for their life with an attacker on top of you.
>>30622562
By good it depends on what you mean. The thing is that when projectiles are "overstabilized" they are more susceptible to deviation due to poor concentricity. So you will have less raw precision. Whether or not that's good at 300 depends on target size.
>>30622682
In a fight at 300 yards, man-size (torso) target is good enough.
>>30622727
That depends on whether they know to use cover. Or if they're firing from a window or something. Generalizations like that are not my idea of a great way to make ammo decisions.
>>30622743
If people know how to use cover, it doesn't matter what ammo grain you fucking have. You need a bolt gun at that point, not a fucking AR-15.
>>30622583
What brand is good for that kind of ammunition?
>>30622743
Fighting against those in cover is not an accuracy game. It's suppressing them until you or your mates with a DMR kills the enemy.
>>30622775
Dude, where are you getting these opinions from? There are plenty of guys who can pop heads at 300 on short exposures with scoped 5.56 carbines and the right ammo. You need to work for it but 300 yards is well within the ballistic capability of 5.56mm.
>>30622829
What if you are the DM? Claude Werner, an old-school SF guy and later a Rogers Shooting School head instructor once wrote something that has stuck with me: "Suppressive fire is best achieved by ploughing bullets into the dirtbag's skull. That is really suppressive." Not saying headshots only or anything like that but self-imposed limitations like "I can't shoot accurately because I'm not the DM!" don't sit well with me.
>>30613969
>http://www.le.vistaoutdoor.com/wound_ballistics/load_comparison/load_comparison.aspx
>bare gelatin
>124gr doesn't even meet fbi penetration standard, 147gr goes to 12"
>heavy clothing
>147gr has more diameter
>wall board
>147gr has greater diameter, more penetration, greater retained weight
>plywood
>147gr penetrates further, so better for defeating simple cover
>safety glass
>only 147gr comes even close to the 12" standard, but 124gr falls very short
>iwba heavy clothing
>147gr greater diameter
so, you linked a source that basically proved that 147gr is superior?
>captcha: "124"
I use critical duty 135gr
Because car doors suck.
220g 10mm auto +p+ SXT.
>>30609099
Velocity does damage
Mass causes penetration
If you want to shoot through things you want your bullet to be massive. That generally isnt a good idea in public.
If you wanted penetration id suggest the heaviest slowest bullet you could find... such as:
9x19mm 165 grain TMJ at 850 fps
however for a defensive load id say you want as much velocity as you can get, which means you're going to want a really LIGHT bullet for energy dump
You have to go 115 grains or lower
Probably lead free hollowpoint.
Also those + shaped bullets from Lehigh defense cause bigger wound cavities than their diameter suggests.
RIP
124 or 147 grain Federal HST. I find my carry gun groups 124gr better.
>>30623372
>energy dump
fucking why
>>30609321
>Heavier bullets penetrate less, lighter bullets are faster and penetrate more.
Get the fuck out of here with your dumbass Fuddlore. I bet you think the .22 ricochets inside the human body one million times until your organs are jelly.
>>30609343
I was looking at the lucky gunner ballistics test and the only caliber hornady seemed to do any good was 380. That little shit plastic actually gets it to the muh FBI depth.
>>30609178
This is the best
>>30624019
Yeah, the Hornady stuff is not as good as people make it sound. Furthermore bullets actually penetrate deeper in the clear ballistics gel than in correctly calibrated ordinance gel. So marginal rounds in the Luckygunner test would probably fail if tested exactly to FBI spec.
>>30622562
>If you're going to fight a longer distance, you need a bolt gun at that point.
No. Not at all.
>>30620290
>>30622682
I've heard this is an overstated concern and in actuality it's not really seen much.
>>30622829
Uh, no, it's suppressing them until your maneuver element can hit them with fire from another angle where they don't enjoy cover.
The best suppression is quick but close shots to include hits.
