Why do people, especially new ar15 owners, feel like their AR15 must have an optic? Shouldn't you learn to use the iron sights first? On the other side, why do AK owners feel like their AKs shouldn't have optics? Don't optics give you an advantage in a defensive scenario?
SHALL
>>30528781
Lol literally best use of this meme so far
>>30528810
DANCE?
>>30528768
>bullet button
More like cuck defense
>>30528768
>Why do people, especially new ar15 owners, feel like their AR15 must have an optic? Shouldn't you learn to use the iron sights first?
Wondering this myself after my friend gave me shit about not buying glass right away.
>>30528768
They want to be tactical and shit. It's babby's first attatchment when there's way more fucking important shit to get first like a light and a sling.
I fell for the red dot meme and I never use it because I can't even zero my rifle with irons properly. I initially wanted a red dot on my ak but I sold the mount and I may or may not get a mount for my ar.
I didn't like how my ak balanced with the dot so I'll stick to irons for it in the meanwhile
>>30528768
iron sights are obsolete grandpa
I've practiced with both and really, iron sights suck. Nothing iron sights can do that an reflex sight or red-dot won't do faster and more precise. Modern optics are so stout that you're more likely to bend or break your front sight post on accident than ruin an optic.
That said everyone should know how to use them and back-up iron sights are okay too.
I've got a question. Can anyone recommend a optic for a fixed carry handle? Vet here, can shoot iron sight fine. Just looking for a 3x or 4x with out iron sight obstruction.
>>30528768
Shot irons for years before I ever bothered putting an optic on a rifle. Honestly think I shoot better with irons than the couple scopes I do have.
I won't speculate as to why AR owners feel the need to slap accessories on a rifle while still in the shop buying it, owned a few for quite some time before I had any desire to put a scope on one.
When it comes to AKs there just used to be a greater degree of difficulty in putting anything on it. They didn't always come with side rails, adding one involved some gunsmithing, russian optics with integrated mounts were soso at best, dust covers don't hold zero unless they are specifically designed to do so, red dots and scopes capable of making use of gas tube mounts are fairly recent and were quite expensive until more recently. There are also a lot of myths and misinformation regarding the accuracy of an AK pattern rifle which may discourage some people from doing so.
>Don't optics give you an advantage in a defensive scenario?
If you're proficient in its use and it's suitable for the situation at hand, absolutely.
>>30528781
KANGZ
>>30528768
>why do people want optics
>optics give you an advantage
You answered your own question.
>>30528768
>especially new ar15 owners, feel like their AR15 must have an optic?
i don't. I just got this last week. Still getting used to it and I like the irons a lot. Despite being able to I'm waiting until i get proficient with said irons before buying an optic. i'd rather start off, being a new owner, with a solid foundation of learning the irons than just skipping to an optic.
>>30528964
tons of mounting options, 'prism', low mag variable or fixed scope options out there, acogs as well.
figure out what your price range is, how you'd like to mount it, measure the eye relief your preferred mount is going to produce roughly and go check some options out in store where you can look through them and compare.
that high up though bear in mind your weld is going to be chin.
>>30528768
I learned to shoot on a .22 with irons, but glass on everything else. Seemed natural to put the same thing on .223 carbine.
Plus, even the mid-range 1-6x's like the Razor or SMRS they make these days blow the old fixed 4x I grew up with out of the water.
I run a 1-4x on my AK as well, but Christ that chin weld.
>>30529263
>Was looking for a classic look. Only ones I can find are Barska and a brand called NcStar.
>Acog is way out of price range. Maybe 300 max.
> LIve in bfe texas, shit stores.
> Not worried about chin weld know where your coming from though.
AK's aren't known for their incredible accuracy so I'd say it's best not to have an optic on one.
AR's can be incredibly accurate so it's best to squeeze out the most accuracy as you can.
If you need a good caliber rifle that can drive nails at 100 yards get an AR with scope.
If you need a reliable gun that can still hit a target at 100 yards get an AK with no optic.
They both make great assault rifles but one is more accurate but less reliable while the other is still accurate enough to hit a man-sized target at range and still take a beating.
>>30528857
And then your optic dies and can't shoot for shit with a perfectly fine rifle.
>>30529448
http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-5x-prism-scope-with-patented-223556-545x39-308-acss-reticle/p/pac5x/
http://www.primaryarms.com/primary-arms-3x-compact-prism-scope-with-the-patented-acss-556-reticle/p/pac3x-acss-5.56/
Get on the email alert list.
Unless you are a mega operator who spends 99% of his time clearing buildings then an optic is a substantial benefit.
On top of that some people like me have pretty shit eyes and for quick and accurate shooting past 100 yards it is pretty much a necessity.
>>30529460
Well memed
>>30529460
Are you fucking high? The average AR is a 1 to 1.5 MOA gun. The average AK is a 1.5 to 2 MOA gun. There's barely any difference in accuracy between the two rifles.
>>30528855
>there's way more fucking important shit to get first like a light and a sling.
Nigger you fucking wot
>I fell for the red dot meme and I never use it because I can't even zero my rifle with irons properly.
No shit, retard
>>30529500
> Thanks site saved.
> Have a fixed carry handle however.
>>30529590
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=carry+handle+scope+mount
>>30529621
LOL thanks man. you should see my saved for later reading folder.
![WP_20150828_005[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/V3Tzev6.jpg "WP_20150828_005[1].jpg")
>>30528955
Exactly this. Irons are innately inferior to an optic in just about every regard in terms of shooting. Once you hit 50 yards, anything smaller than a torso gets nearly completely fucking obscured by a typical FSP, and it only gets worse from there. An optic reticle will almost always be better, be it crosshairs, a dot, or whatever. The superiority of an optic is made doubly clear in low-light situations.
That said, don't fucking Jew out on not having a reliable backup in case, for whatever reason, your optic shits the bed. Practice with both, get proficient with both, make your rifle as capable as it can be.
>>30529590
Reading's not your strong suit eh? They drop in and fit right onto fixed carry handles if you remove the rail grabber.
>The standard mount can be removed for use on AR15/M16 carry handles in conjunction with our carry handle screw, product code 92581A320
>The standard mount can be removed for use on AR15/M16 carry handles in conjunction with our carry handle screw, product code 92581A320
>>30529460
noguns detected
>>30529751
>Sweet mother marry.
Bless you man. Tires as shit and skimmed over it.
>Thanks Boss.
>>30528768
No idea OP, I usually tell my buddies who are buying for the first time to learn on iron sights because it builds good habits. Also because I hate them and want them to do it the hard way first.
My eyes aren't as good as a scope.
>>30529741
Some of us don't buy guns to play pretend. Worst case scenario you somehow fuck up your optic on the way to the range and don't shoot your rifle that day. You're never going to need to defend your mom's basement from SHTF raiders or Obama death squads or whatever fantasy you adhere to.
>>30529069
AN'
>>30528768
I shot a winchester 30-30 for years with open sights be for I built my ar. I only have buis so that I don't have to hear about how "i need to have them" I have never seen a scope broken. SHTF isn't likely to require me to use my rifle. So why shouldn't I just have my scope?
>>30530085
1) ignore tripshits.
2) modern optics don't just fuck themselves over, at least if you buy Swedish.
>>30530248
>be for
If you're going to use the language, fucking do it properly.
>>30530085
Yeah, you got me anon, I'mma just throw away this $50 KAC BUIS now that you've shown me the light, even though it does absolutely no harm to my rifle and only gives me a cheap, reliable alternative in the very unlikely scenario I'd need it. Why don't you post your AR so I can have some inspiration? :^
>>30528768
My ruger 10/22 has a 1-4x20mm power scope on it...it's a 20" light weight barrel, not the heavy one...dose this trigger you?
>>30528768
I don't like optics in general.
They're good on AKs due to the very short sight radius more befitting a carbine, instead of a full rifle. On ARs, it makes more sense on competition guns for quick acquisition.
>>30529741
I hate red dots. Bought one, used it for a while but I never could get the hang of them. I still take longer to get the dot on target then scope.
>>30530085
God forbid someone maybe builds a rifle that they'd like to have in case SHTF or anything right?
>>30529448
If you're looking for scopes that resemble the old Colt 3x and 4x scopes you're going to have to scour the used market for them.
The main ones to look for are the Hakko 3x and 4x scopes, they are the same as the Colt one because for a number of years they produced them for Colt. There is also the Beeman SS2 blue ring scope and the CMO series of scopes, all of these are either built by or designed by Hakko and have various features as time went on.
I have a CMO M16 Marksman Elite scope from the early 1990's and I love the thing. It's got an SS109 BDC with a fiber optic illuminated post reticle and it's built like a brick shithouse.
Your average or new AR owner wants to replicate what they see in movies/video games/what they think the military uses, so optics and dumb accessories abound. Do they need it? No, but who cares? Its there's to have fun with.
AK owners can come in two forms. One makes there's as close to an AR as possible, enter the tacticool furniture and optics. These people will likely disgust the other group, who enjoy their AK's in as true to original/Russian form as possible.
In a practical sense, the stock sights on an AK are too close together and do not aid in longer distance accurate shooting, possibly adding to the reason why ak's gained a reputation for being inaccurate, along with the fact that most third world soldiers who use them do not bother to even aim properly when shooting.
Personally, I do use an optic on my AK, but leaning towards purest, I went with a Russian side mounted optic to keep with aesthetics
>>30530343
Might as well burn a $50 bill, at least the entertainment value would give you something.
Augmented reality goggles and hipfiring with a virtual laser sight is the future.
>>30530696
Google glass + tracking point system
>>30530685
Jesus christ nigger what even is that scope?
>>30530708
Looks like a vortex
>>30530521
No but you see shtf will never happen, all those other instances of shtf around the world don't count and you're all retarded manchildren with rambo fantasies.
>>30530708
I was hoping someone would bite on the pillow first.
>>30530714
Yep. Spitfire 3x.
>>30530696
Letting your autonomous weapons platform fight while you sit at home and shitpost on 4chan is the future.
>>30529481
How exactly is my ACOG going to die?
I have backup irons and everyone should but claiming one must first learn irons is a fallacy and does a disservice to the community. Irons are hard, give a new shooter an ar with a decent zeroed optic and let them have some success/work on fundamentals then transition them to the more difficult to use irons.
![WP_20160604_005[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/VWZwHmi.jpg "WP_20160604_005[1].jpg")
>>30530685
Shit dude, if you were a poverty fag looking to excuse every cost-cutting measure, you only had to say so. ;^
>>30530725
The real terminator will walk on 4 legs
>>30530723
>Daki pillow on 4chan
Not shocking news around here
>>30530731
Aw, did you get lost on your way to /arg/? Discussions use actual arguments on the rest of the board.
>>30530754
>actual arguments
"You shouldn't use it because I say so" isn't an argument, silly. ;^
>>30530685
>cat owner
>daki
>vortex
>billet upper
>dickmod rail with nothing on it
>>30530768
>no smug anime face
Are you even trying?
>>30530779
>cat warms pillow for lifelike experience
>not billet bruh
>implying you don't want your gun to look like shelving equipment
>>30530799
>smug anime face
You are so last decade.
>18 inch AR with A2 stock
>bipod
>irons
Didn't budget for an optic, kek
>>30530715
I really don't get how people can decry having a rifle set up for a worst case scenario these days when shit is so clearly heading for a fucking firestorm
>>30530808
I read on knowyourmeme.com that it's an effective way to "troll" other users. Are you mad?
![WP_20160412_001[5].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/zLvEVXR.jpg "WP_20160412_001[5].jpg")
>>30530826
Nah senpaitachi. ;^
Paedophile cartoons to >>>/a/ please.
>>30530842
I hope my pelican can grow up to be that big one day.
![WP_20160411_001[2].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9unBAzt.jpg "WP_20160411_001[2].jpg")
>>30530863
It's like $190 on Amazon yo.
>>30528768
Because optics are good and are generally superior to optic sights.
That being said, buis are good to have.
>>30528768
There's really no excuse to not have some form of optic on most modern rifles.
>>30530212
DANCE?
>>30528964
You can mount it on the handguard, on a gooseneck cantilever mount or on the handguard itself.
Gooseneck isn't bad but all three options suck
>>30528768
my rifle came free floated without bui's, so i went with a primary arm 1-6 scope instead of buying irons then a scope
>>30528768
cause some genius in marketing came up with the term "optics ready" to make incomplete gun a selling point. at the same time good irons cost a decent chunk of change we talking 100-200 for a set. why would you pay 200 bucks for outdated irons when you can buy a red dot? a red dot marked utg that only costs 30 bucks or a similar cheap scope. people are idiots
>>30531261
The one with the fancy reticle? What mount?
>>30529529
>average AK gets 1.5 to 2 MOA
try 3-4, vodka nigger.
>>30529529
why is this board so fucking bad
why cant you people just go away
>>30530707
this is amazing holy shit
how much does this setup cost?
>>30530715
1 shekel has been added to your account.
>>30529066
>>30530653
These. The first time I used a red-dot it was amazing, I fully understand the appeal. But I grew up on irons and there is no excuse for not being able to aim a gun without needing batteries. Even now I prefer them to scoped rifles unless long range hunting.
>>30529460
>100yds
>needs a scope
>all these memes
>>30528855
>flashlight
>way more fucking important
>>30530727
>irons are hard
>learning to aim is not a shooting fundamental
You three should stop posting for a while.
>>30530715
>all those other instances of shtf around the world don't count
Ok
>>30528768
im going to say that some people prefer optics because it's easier/quicker than irons. Especially as you get older your eyesight starts going and some people are just born with shit eyes.
If shooting 400yrds+ gets your rocks off are you seriously implying that irons are better than a scope? kys
Some guys get their rocks off by close range shooting so yeah irons vs optics doesn't really matter at cqb/3 gun stuff just personal taste
Also lots of people grew up shooting fudd guns with grandpa so they were taught in irons from the get go
>>30528855
>>30530502
If it's a aimpoint I'll buy it
but judging by /arg/ it's probably some $80 chink dot. I always get a chuckle of ARfags on here paying $1500+ for gucci rifles just to throw a cheap ass optic on it then have the audacity to call /akg/ poorfags
tl;dr ITT
stop liking what I don't like
>>30530715
>all those other instances of shtf around the world don't count
This kid...
Because most of the time you'll be using your gun at the range, where your optic will be enough. Even militaries are using optics as primary and barely teach and shoot with the irons
Wow is ARG normally this much shitposting? Fuck between the traps and rhodies on BRG
And the slav wannabee my ak is unbreakable soviet steel on AKG
And the H&K cock suckers on HGG
I JUST WANT TO GO TO A THREAD WHERE PEOPLE TALK ABOUT GUNS
>WHERE CAN I GET A FUCKING DETACHABLE SCOPE RAIL FOR AN A1 UPPER?
>>30529133
what a horrible picture
>>30531352
Bro, If you can't get under a 3" group with 5 rounds at 100 yards off of a rest, either your barrel needs replacing, or it's time to admit your eyesight isn't what it used to be and get more glass.
>>30531660
Try the /ak/ threads.
>>30530365
4×20 scope on a 22lr?
>>30531459
Most of /arg/ has optics that cost about the same or far more than the average /akg/ poster's rifle, since Trijicon and Aimpoint are by far the norm, don't even try to pretend otherwise.
>>30531660
Why is googling hard?
http://www.midwayusa.com/carry-handle/br?cid=11918
>>30530653
>but leaning towards purest, I went with a >Russian side mounted optic to keep with aesthetics
you call that rubber dong "aesthetic"?
>>30532013
>5 round groups
>>30531406
>>irons are hard
>>learning to aim is not a shooting fundamental
They are - for new shooters. If they take a shot and miss, it's going to take longer to diagnose and correct the problem between them still learning proper sight picture and trigger manipulation if they have to deal with sight alignment on top of that.
Not saying don't learn or shoot with irons, but new shooters will develop general shooting skill more quickly if you start them out with an optic and transition them to irons after they're comfortable in their ability to make hits.
