Hey /k. Gun newbie here. I'm in the market to buy my first gun which will be a 9mm, full size, semi auto. I've pretty much narrowed it down to the Wather PPQ, Sig P226, and Glock 17. Does anyone have experience with these guns and if so, opinions?
I'm not going to use these for conceal and carry. More just for home defense and a fun range gun. Ill be getting a subcompact at a later date for my conceal carry gun.
>>30489638
>I've pretty much narrowed it down to the Wather PPQ, Sig P226, and Glock 17
If those are your three that you've "narrowed it down to," then you don't know what the fuck you want. The PPQ and Glock 17 are basically the same gun. The PPQ has different ergonomics and a better trigger. The Glock has higher capacity and more aftermarket. The Sig is a totally different class of handgun - in price, functionality (how the trigger works), and the amount and kind of maintenance you'll need to do.
>>30489638
>home defense
>not a long gun
You're doing it wrong.
>>30489678
Care to elaborate? What makes the 226 different compared to the others apart from price?
>>30489680
Like I said, first gun. I'm going to be upgrading to a 12 gauge or an AR later for home defense.
>>30489700
If you don't understand how a DA/SA trigger is different from a pre-cocked striker-fired trigger, then you need to go back to the drawing board and do A LOT more research.
>>30489700
Not that guy, but the metal framed SIG products have a DA/SA trigger system with a decocker, that makes them MUCH more mechanically complex than a modern striker-fired pistol like a Glock or a Smith M&P. The manual of arms is a bit more complex as well, as you must decock the SIG before holstering it.
>>30489757
Op here. The impression I'm getting is that 226s are not for newbies...
>>30489773
Go to a gun store and handle one. See what you think of it. Most people would say that having two different trigger pull weights requires extra training.
Canik tp9 SA does everything a Glock does with a 150$ less tag plus brand new, holster and reliability. 350$ is affordable and a four pound trigger stock is great
>>30489773
Don't believe that, Any gun for a newbie is something new to learn. Don't get caught up in caliber arguements or reliability, look at weight (soak up recoil), ammo costs to be able to practice and become oper8tor, plus trigger. Human bodies can't tell all that much of a difference between pistol caliber bullets BUT your walls will. So put that fact that when you punch those thru dindu you'll be slicing through your other rooms as well. Practice practice practice = expensive = less range time. I bought a Caniktp9sa so my wife can learn on an easy platform.
Of those you posted I would go glock 17 (or19) to learn off of and throw a light on it for a night stand gun and maybe even to carry in the winter and get a glock 26 for your sub for mag interchangeability. All that you listed are good guns that would serve you well, however.
>>30489773
The 226 is retarded easy to field strip and maintain. Also a excellent shooter.
>don't mess with the rest of the gun until you do more research.
>>30489638
Sig P226 all the way. It is maybe the ultimate pistol.
But by all means, if you want to be bored with your purchase 2 weeks after, buy a polymer-framed pistol.
P320 full size for retarded easy break down or p226.
>>30489638
>PPQ
never shot it, can't give feedback
>P226
Excellent gun but pricey. Might want to look into the P320. Just as awesome, half the price.
>Glock 17
Holy shit it felt like a brick in my hands. Hated it. Got a G19 instead, felt a lot better. Might want to finger fuck those two models before deciding.
>>30489638
What about a CZ ?
The SP01 and the P09 are fucking good guns, and I assume other CZ are good too
But from what you said, I would take the SIG
>>30489638
My first handgun in over a decade, a Walther PPX. Cheaper than the ppq, if you can find one. It' s thick. Easy to strip.
Between the 17 and PPQ it's an easy choice. PPQ ergos and trigger are far superior for roughly the same price. P226 is a great gun but in a different category completely. I personally dont like the ergos on it but I know a lot of people will disagree with me. Also look at the HK VP9 and M&P9.
>>30491494
Same person..
Just thought about it, if you can afford the P226 get the M&P CORE Pro.
And then there was this fag >>30490279
Show me your Glock 19s and IWB holsters.
I got a 67 year old father who wants to get one for his first gun.
>>30490256
Anyone who recommends a beretta m92 should shoot themselves (if they can get it to fire).
The same goes for anyone who recommends a high power or cz75 in this era.
>>30491504
>recommending a polypocket M&P over P226
heh.
>>30493435
One sec I'll get on my phone
>>30493525
Here ya go
>>30489712
You're an idiot. Why spend money on something you're going to replace? Just get a damn shotgun or rifle
>>30493545
height, weigh, waist
and an image of it concealed so I can check print
please
>>30493545
>Blue Moon
Does your holster have a spot for tampons, nancy?
>>30493574
I'm not even wearing pants right now my dude. I'm 5'11 and around 185 pounds, get a padded IWB holster like mine and carry it at 3'o clock or 3:30 and it dissapears
>>30493587
It's the best macro brew you can get, it's what I have people get me if they don't know shit about beer. It's decent and if you think your taste in beer makes you better than anyone else you're a moron
>>30493605
>It's the best macro brew you can get, it's what I have people get me if they don't know shit about beer. It's decent and if you think your taste in beer makes you better than anyone else you're a moron
If you think its the best macro brew, you have autism.
>>30493623
>My opinion is more right than yours
Did daddy break a Blue Moon bottle over your head or something?
>>30493645
No I just have these things in my mouth called tastebuds. But hey you do you, I would never make fun of a retard.
>>30493655
Yeah you obviously have superior taste, you'd definitely never pick an argument online to make yourself feel superior because you're a toxic, spiteful waste of skin
>>30493676
Says the person defending the statement "It's the best macro brew you can get"
>>30493694
Says the person who gets so upset over someone elses choice in beer without even saying what he prefers
>>30490200
why do sig grips turn into a diarrhea/green brown color after a while?
>>30493713
From being used as prostate stimulants
>>30493700
Because blue moon is a girly drink. If you were sure of yourself you woudn't feel the need to defend drinking a girly drink.
Hell I don't even like beer, and prefer cocktails. My current favorite is the negroni.
>>30489680
nothing wrong with a pistol for home defense, it frees up your off hand so you can call 911 or restrain the intruder if need be.
it also allows you to re holster or tuck the gun away if authorities arrive
>>30493724
You surely see the irony in attacking someone for their choice in drink while saying that the other person is insecure, right? You already lost, go away
>>30493738
You don't have to get so defensive sweetie.
>>30489736
this
>>30493759
>Hurr durr I'm a troll, I was only pretending to be retarded!
And now you're going full damage control
>>30493774
Just promise me one thing. When you are sucking some twinks dick later, you use a dental dam.
>>30493479
>beretta m92
Apparently you can't tell the models apart, you mix them together. I don't expect you to know the difference between a beat-up 30 year old military issued M9 and a brand spanking new Beretta 92FS that performs flawlessly for thousands and thousands of rounds
>>30489773
actually the 226 is great for newbies because the gun is easy to shoot in SA mode, is a soft shooter, and is very comfy to handle
the glock, by comparison, has rather snappy recoil and a heavier trigger. i took a friend to the range who was all fired up to shoot the glock 17. he put 50 rounds thru it and probably got 15 stovepipes from limp-wristing it. the next 50 he shot with a 92fs. the smooth trigger and low recoil made him a much more successful shooter.
glocks are good when you know what you're doing with a pistol and can take advantage of the extreme grip angle and positive trigger reset to maintain a high rate of accurate fire; basically with a glock you don't have to move the trigger a lot to fire, but you have to pull a bit harder. if youre a good shooter and can stabilize the gun during the trigger pull, you can take advantage of the glock's features. if you cant stabilize the gun, the heavier trigger will throw off your accuracy.
>>30493785
Here's your (you)
>>30493812
OP this anon knows absolutely nothing about what he's talking about. Glock isn't any harder or easier to shoot than any other auto-loading pistol in 9mm. Go with what feels best in your hand, all the options you stated are reliable choices
>>30493865
>Glock isn't any harder or easier to shoot
>implying i would take this bait
every gun has attributes that change the way it handles. those handling characteristics make the gun easier to shoot for some people, harder to shoot for others, and to some they make no difference.
everything i mentioned about the glock and the sig is ascertained from extensive first hand use of both the p226 and g17 gen 3&4
>>30493999
>Go for what feels best in your hand
>Hurr muh attriboots
If you think there's that much of a difference between shooting a glock and a sig, you're a bigger sperg than I and I applaud you. Everything you mentioned is anecdotal evidence at best, and in all likelihood is shit you made up on the spot while handing them
>>30493999
While we are talking handfuns, can someone point me in the direction of a CC gun with several features:
1. Subcompact
2. 9mm
3. All metal (preferably steel, but Al is ok I guess)
4. Striker fired
5. I'd rather no safety or decocker
Any ideas? I was thinking about the Kahr MK9, but the idea of a gun that needs a 'break in period' kind of spooks me. I was also looking at the Sig P938, but It's an aluminum frame, has an exposed hammer, and a safety.
>>30494072
I can't think of anything that's subcompact, metal framed and striker fired, anon
Recently got my first firearm, I chose the Sig 320. It feels great in the hand, and is somewhat less bulky than the 226. A very fine choice that I would recommend. You also will be well served by a Glock 19. The Gen 4 model is vey nice and light and reliable. Happy shooting!
>>30494045
glock trigger is 5 lb vs the sig which is 4.4
glock trigger has very little travel, the sig has some decent takeup in SA. in my experience, the glock trigger is more challenging for new shooters because they have to apply more force against a trigger that barely moves until it breaks, which causes them to usually jerk the trigger because they're not getting any feedback from the force they are applying. whereas with the sig, you can gradually apply force and the trigger will move back accordingly, then once the creep is taken out you apply a bit more force and it breaks.
eh, maybe a bit anecdotal. but ive put about 1000 rounds through each and noticed the same qualities each time. i also find the glock grip a little slim. but, like you said, to each their own. i'm just giving OP the experience i had.
>>30494072
hk p7 is the only gun i can think of that meets those expectations, although it's not /exactly/ subcompact
>>30494072
P320
>>30493724
>picking an argument with somebody for drinking a supposedly girly drink
>oh I prefer cocktails btw
You're a shitposter of the highest order, but negronis are good, so I'll leave it at that.
>>30496568
I specifically said I want a metal frame. I did look into the p320, but I would only buy one if I could get a metal frame for it. (I bet they sell an alloy one eventually).
>>30496627
I only jabbed at him, it's not my fault he got defensive instead of just saying 'so what?'
>>30496657
Oh, my apologies, but I did think the P320 was all-metal.
>>30496568
>p320
>all metal
Topkek. The HK p7 comes to mind.
get a Beretta 92
S.T.A.R.S. used it against zombies and shit in a mansion, it's perfect for home defense
Just get a CZ-75B. You won't regret it.
>>30493713
Those are just green grips.
>>30489638
get an AR, it's easier to handle and higher capacity
>>30493812
>actually the 226 is great for newbies because the gun is easy to shoot in SA mode, is a soft shooter, and is very comfy to handle
Most of that is opinion, but even though it's true that some people never shoot their DA/SA pistols in DA mode, I think it's pretty ill advised to always think he's going to have the time to cock the hammer when he needs to use his gun. A gun you use for home defense needs to be something you have fully mastered, and no matter how you feel about a DA/SA type pistol, for a total newbie, it's going to take at least twice as long, likely much longer, to master, due to all the additional skills involved.
>the glock, by comparison, has rather snappy recoil and a heavier trigger.
What? No. The Glock trigger and a Sig single action trigger are both 4-5 pounds. One is not noticeably heavier than the other. The recoil of a Glock 17 or 19 isn't snappy at all, and if you think it is, you need to stop being such a bitch. If you are limpwristing a Glock, then you aren't holding it right. I can hold a Glock so loose that it could fall out of my hand, and as long as I'm holding it correctly, it won't have any limpwrist-induced malfunctions.
>the next 50 he shot with a 92fs. the smooth trigger and low recoil made him a much more successful shooter.
No. The *crisp trigger acted as a crutch for his total lack of skill with any firearm, and the minimal recoil didn't cause him to flinch as much, like the bitch he is.
>glocks are good when you know what you're doing with a pistol and can take advantage of the extreme grip angle and positive trigger reset to maintain a high rate of accurate fire
The trigger reset force on a Glock is pretty much the same as any other service pistol. The grip angle is NOT "extreme" by any stretch of the imagination, and is easy to train for. And they are much easier to train on than a DA/SA pistol, due to the consistent trigger pull every time. It sounds like you have basically NO skills at all shooting guns.
>>30493999
>certain guns are easier to shoot for some people,
The really good trigger on a Beretta isn't supposed to be a crutch for squids. It's supposed to be a performance part for experts to bring out their full potential. If you can't shoot Glocks, then you can't shoot guns and need to get good fast.
>>30494072
>3. All metal (preferably steel, but Al is ok I guess)
>4. Striker fired
For modern production, Kahr is your only option. But all metal isn't a very important feature on a concealed-carry pistol anyway, and you should broaden your criteria if you want to get an actually decent carry pistol.
>>30494314
>ive put about 1000 rounds through each
Wow! A true shootering MASTER walks among us, friends!!
>>30496984
I've owned an LCP, Glock 19, and an M&P Shield. I HATE the feel of plastic guns. I've given them a try, and they don't do it for me. Also, my job requires being exposed to freezing temperatures on a regular basis, which means a lot of freeze/thaw cycles in a short time period. Nothing messes with polymers like freeze/thaw cycles.
>>30497018
Maybe you should get past your personal hang-ups and just choose the best tool for the job. It's not a pair of shoes where a bad "feel" can cause an ingrown toenail or serious pain. It's a fucking gun. As long as it kills bad guys, it's doing it's job.
>Nothing messes with polymers like freeze/thaw cycles.
Citation nowhere because you just made that up.
>>30497034
>Citation nowhere because you just made that up.
So you are going to say that nylon is not damaged by freeze/thaw cycles? LOL.
>Maybe you should get past your personal hang-ups and just choose the best tool for the job. It's not a pair of shoes where a bad "feel" can cause an ingrown toenail or serious pain. It's a fucking gun. As long as it kills bad guys, it's doing it's job.
All this butthurt. Be careful playing with your polypockets, you could hurt yourself.
>>30497046
>the polymer used in guns is the same kind of plastic that they use in legos LOLOLOLOL
>LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Do you think that gun manufacturers like Glock and HK that use polymer frames don't test their guns in extreme temperatures? I'm genuinely curious at the level of your knowledge. FOR YEARS, I've heard Fudds talk about how polymer breaks down when exposed to UV light, or when exposed to any number of ordinary conditions, but I've never once seen a polymer pistol where the frame failed due to environmental conditions. This is my first time meeting a Fudd who thought that polymer firearms break down when exposed to freezing temperatures, but I suppose there's always going to be variety to superstitions.
If you can find one single example of a poymer firearm that degraded and eventually broke due to exposure to the environment, I'd love to see it.
Not like a concealed-carry pistol is actually going to be changing temperature that much. It's carried right next to your body, where temperature is regulated very well. I guess this just offers some insight into how deep you've thought about the subject.
>All this butthurt.
I don't see any butthurt. Maybe you are projecting?
>>30497018
>which means a lot of freeze/thaw cycles in a short time period. Nothing messes with polymers like freeze/thaw cycles.
I'd LOVE to see your sources. My Glock manual says that the gun will work anywhere from -40 to 122 F. Also, you might want to contact the Norwegian Army and inform them of your irrefutably correct and authoritative information that applies to all plastics, since they have been using polymer weapons for years without issue.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Norwegian_Army
But I'm sure all their arsenal is just one more freeze and thaw cycle away from shattering into pieces, huh!
>>30497094
LOL Are you going to pretend that their nylon is any different than commercially available nylon? You can literally look up the specs @ DuPont. Also, it's not freezing temperatures, its the freeze/thaw cycle that is damaging to polymers. Please take a materials class, your ignorance is showing.
>>30497142
>Please take a materials class, your ignorance is showing.
>Glock frames are the same thing as car tires, guys!
Oh, the irony.
>>30497151
memetastic.
>>30497157
And still not a single source posted aside from your assurance that you took a materials 101 class in college and have severe case of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
>>30497184
I literally told you where to look. DuPont has extensive specs listed for their polymers. In fact, attached is the data sheet for the EXACT polymer used on M&P frames.
>>30497234
Spamming me with a bunch of raw data on properties of plastics doesn't prove your claim, that polymer handguns break apart when exposed to freeze and thaw "cycles." Or did you think it did?
>>30497250
Are you literally too stupid to read 3 pages? The irrefutable fact is that the current polymers being used on handguns do form stress fractures from freeze/thaw cycles.
>>30497234
If you weren't such a fucktard, you would realize that the chart you posted actually proves you wrong. That plastic is particularly temperature resistant.
How about you try to educate yourself before you shitpost?
Fuck you.
>>30497258
>b-but muh irrefutable facts!
I read your data and see no evidence of your absurd claims about firearms developing "stress fractures" from "freeze/thaw cycles."
>>30497268
b-but muh stress fractures :(
>>30497018
You do know that all solids are "frozen", right?
>>30497276
Do I literally need to explain the issue? See Humidity and water absorption on page 2.
>>30497303
You don't understand that data, do you?
>>30489638
Similar Anon here, was saving up for a Chiappa Rhino and pic related caught my eye, more affordable, round that won't go through a person and into the background, nearly three times the capacity with cheaper ammo and more reloadable even after buying a bunch of fifty-dollar mags.
The Rhino has a shape that I find appealing and the 357mag has a good punch, but ruger seems reliable and I'm a left-handed pistol shooter and from what I know putting a few 9s into a body is just about as effective as using a tougher round- it's affordable and can take a L3 retention holster, but I'd need to practice clearing and dud-round drills as well as pick a good load for carry use as a sidearm to my 308 or 12ga, so I'm not entirely sure what's a better choice
>>30497317
Apparently you dont..
>>30490256
>Doesn't include Hi-Points
>>30497303
Confirmed for not knowing what you are talking about. That information means that it highly water resistant.
>>30497323," he said trying to hide his own ignorance.
>>30497303
Is your argument that Glock frames absorb water? Fucking really? You're doubling down on THAT?
>>30497371
Is your argument that nylon doesn't absorb water?
>>30497375
YES!!!
>>30497319
Looking at pricepoints, should I just get a 9e instead?
>>30497382
Then you aren't worth talking to...
>>30497394
Let me just squeeze the water out of my Glock's frame before typing up a response to your idiocy. It's soaking my shorts being so wet on my hip like that.
Idiot.
>>30497386
Don't get apolymer handgun. Don't you know that they absorb water? Geeze. I can't believe I have to spell this out for you! Do you want your hands to get soaked when you go and try to shoot the thing?
>>30497429
Yeah, just show me a modern autoloader that doesn't use poly parts
>>30497438
Show me a poly autoloader that doesn't soak up water like a sponge.
>mfw you cant
>LH9
Completely worth it if you ignore the shit placement and orientation of the safety, and you get it on their yearly black friday sale. Fantastic fucking firearm otherwise.
>>30497595
Look at those plastic grips, though. I bet they're sopping wet!
you should at least try a Sphinx.
>>30497622
I don't think it really matters that they're polymer when the rest of the frame is cerakoted aluminum.
>>30489678
>The PPQ and Glock 17 are basically the same gun.
stop posting
Every handgun should be an H&K. They are flawless pistols and have extreme reliability and durability.
I recommend the P30Sk as a first handgun to everyone. It's not full sized but get it anyways.
Ignore the Glock and Sig fags here. If you're on a budget and are looking for a decent and reliable handgun try the Taurus PT111 G2 9mm. Not "full size" but they go on sale sometimes for around $200-$240.
>HURR TAURUS SUCKS
Most of the gun nut faggots here that love to bash cheaper guns such as Taurus have never fired anything by them because they are too busy circlejerking each other.
>>30498883
Sig Sauer is the only acceptable brand for a modern handgun.
>>30498883
If you really have to poor fag it up, get a Hi Point. They may be ugly but they are more reliable, and better made than Taurus.
>>30498896
"Only acceptable brand"
Let me guess, you own a Mac as well.
>>30498908
No the only acceptable brand for wrenches and sockets is Snap On. MAC sucks.
>>30498905
I tried Hi Point and I couldn't get how shitty their guns felt. Plus all the ones I tried were single stack and were complete eye cancer.
>>30498971
And you are going to argue Taurus is better? I've handled a wide array of their guns from the TCP to their 500 magnum clone. They all feel like shit compared to the gun they are copying.
>>30498999
No, Taurus is not better than Glock or Sig. Only less expensive. Not everyone wants to spend $400-$700 on a handgun.
>>30489678
It's always the first reply that is filled with the most bullshit.
>>30499021
No I said better than hi point.
>>30498999
Completely subjective. Whatever feels good in your hands and is reliable. I personally don't like Hi Point and found Taurus to be a great budget priced handgun.
>>30497595
Aren't those basically a S&W Gen 3?
>>30493479
>talking shit about the hi power or CZ-75
Opinion immediately discarded
>>30499087
>literally defending Czit.
The only reason to own a hi power now is a range toy. If you want a gun for defense there are MUCH better options available now.
>>30498655
>flawless
Except for the fact that their nylon frames absorb water and crack into pieces after a single freeze/thaw cycle!
>>30499062
>>30497640
>an angry walther babby takes out his frustration by samefagging
>No one mentions the sig 2022
>>30499566
>>No one mentions the sig 2022
Well, for starters, it's made out of nylon that absorbs water and cracks into a million pieces after repeated freeze/thaw cycles. Can't you read a Du Pont graph for a damn?? Sheesh!
>>30499589
>all this autism trying to defend plastic toys.
>>30489638
My best advice is to not take any advice from here. All three of those are good guns, just get whatever one you want the most. One isn't going to make you a better shooter than the other, so it's just down to which one you like.
>>30499084
It's an updated Korean DP51, which is essentially, yes, a sort of cross between an S&W and baretta. Sort of.
