What realistic war scenarios allow Nazi Germany to win WWII, or at the very least hold off invasion and continue to exist as a nation into the 1950's?
>>30324068
None.
The only possible way would be for them to not invade Russia. Which is unrealistic given Hitler.
Still more likely than Japan winning.
>>30324111
>The only possible way would be for them to not invade Russia
Or, you know, to ACTUALLY invade Russia, rather than breaking the army up into three and sending two parts of it to fucking useless places, rather than Moscow.
>>30324068
Wait to invade Russia, help the japs mop up in China so they can launch attacks on multiple fronts. Bye bye Russia.
Grade A incompetence on the part of the allies.
The A bomb.
A better logistics train idea then fucking horses.
Not really a historian but those seem like they'd help the nazis.
>>30324131
>help the japs mop up in China so they can launch attacks on multiple fronts
You want the Germans, who have a hard enough time getting troubles across Europe, to somehow get their military to China?
Besides, even if you got the military there, you can't defeat China. Not with America giving the Chinks back-door assistance.
>>30324068
Not have Hitler call the shots, he was great at giving speeches but was an extremely over confident and yet somehow still paranoid commander with an obsession about killing the Jews so intense he redirected vital resources that probably could have made a difference on the battlefield towards finding and killing more Jews, gays, and gypsies and other people he didn't like.
>>30324068
Not starting the fucking thing in the first place.
>>30324267
fuck off
>>30324068
Modernize faster than the allies.
More StG 44s
No Tiger IIs
More Panthers
Accelerate the development of the kugelblitz
Use Chemical weapons in Russia, blame it on the USSR having an internal coup
Propaganda war in the anglo nations, make note that Churchill and Roosevelt are attempting to give away Eastern Europe to Communists.
No battlecruisers, use materials on more submarines and more tanks
Copy the west with the air force, rotate pilots to train rookies and pass on knowledge, use the Me 262 as it was supposed to be and not a fighter bomber
>>30324068
> assassinate Hitler
> don't invade Russia
> tell Japan to never attack America
> just deport the Jews instead of exterminating them
They'd need to avoid a two-front war. That means either NOT invading Poland in the first place and going straight to invading Russia, or not invading Russia until they've defeated the rest of Europe. And going to war with Britain would be pointless unless they had the naval capability for a proper invasion.
make better allies than the Italians
>>30324358
This.
If they'd invaded Russia first, nobody would have given a shit.
>>30324329
>Operation Barbossa starts, lost in moskow again (srl how the fuck would they capture moskow?)
>now the soviet union know how to mass build assalt rifles in 1941
>japs lose again to Britain, USA and Soviet Union
>Italy BTFO
>I little bit later(1947,1950), the soviets and USA are marching again through the streets of berlin
>>30324126
IIRC one of those parts went off to find fuel for everyone else, which seems potentially very helpful.
>>30324329
Earlier war production probably wouldn't hurt either.
>>30324068
Not invade Poland, don't start the war, keep the massive territory gained by Anschluss and annexation of the Sudetenland If Hilter died in 1939 he'd be considered one of the greatest leaders in German history.
>>30324068
Just dont attack the west.
"oh maybe they will fight communism with us if we invade and kill bunch of them"
Germans are just idiots.
>>30324068
Honestly? Not kill 6 garillion Jews when trying to conquer the world.
First off, Hitler should've never bombed London that early. He should've waited untill he had more air power than just a few planes and some bombers. If he would've held off, invaded Poland and the surrounding countries, and made most of Europe their slaves, it wouldn't have been such a cluster fuck.
Secondly, he should've stuck with Poland, France, and Finland as his main fronts, in the summer, not the winters. Plus his "friendship" with Japan, he could've told them to hold off on attacking the U.S, because that pretty much fucked him over.
Thirdly, he should've amassed his forces over time, "for the Reich", and then snuck up on China and demolished them with Japan, leaving Japan and his divisions in Japo-China to attack from the south in the SUMMER and his forces in the West to attack at the same time, driving Russia mad with anger and desperation. This would've left the CCCP in shambles, and forcing the U.S and Britain to take further action.
If he played it smarter, he could've had nukes by the '50's, maybe late '40's, and won the war against The Allies.
>>30324126
Yeah that really worked out for Napoleon
The Leningrad siege was useless though, they should have just blockaded it. Same for Stalingrad.
>>30324111
Retarded copout comment.
>>30324068
If the British had been annihilated at Dunkirk they would have been much more accepting of the peace terms offered by Hitler, without the massive morale victory it gave.
No Britain in the war likely means no US in all likelihood, and no US supplies (or even a bit less US supplies) means the Soviets don't stand a chance.
>>30324126
The other two were sent to destroy Soviet armies, just like the middle one. But sure keeping 200 divisions in one big group that cannot be supplied by existing rail while both flanks are threatened is a great idea. You should apply to become a general.
>>30324068
Not waste logistics on the Final Solution until after the war, not to waste time on the super weapons, and to actually put the effort into taking either Moscow or the Oil, and not half ass both.
>>30324185
>fell for the holocaust meme
>>30324068
Be friendly to all the slavs after the invasion, call it a "liberation" of Russia from the hated Stalin. Make them a Nazi friendly puppet government and slav containment area after the war since they were untermensch.
Millions more would've eagerly fought instead of just Ukranians, and even if they were poorly trained they'd still be a match for equally poorly trained Soviet conscript divisions.
>>30324068
Realistic is the complicated part of this.
For instance, battle of Britain was almost a German victory; a few more weeks and Britain might have negotiated a peace.
If Barbarossa was pushed off a year and a half, the reorganized German military without dealing with the UK might have had a significant advantage. Likewise, if Germany had began fostering puppet revolutions akin to the Iron Guard in Romania in the western Russian provinces, the war might have been a civil war with German allies.
Likewise, if the pan-arab movement had sided more heavily against the British/French, it's likely that Turkey would have backed up the fascist movement and created a cluster fuck for Russia getting supplies. Or if the National Indian Army had managed to get a more significant backing, India might have gone fascist.
There are lots of ways that the scenario would have gone better, but even then, there are what ifs based on what ifs.
>>30324068
What's your definition of "win"?
To the Nazis, it's not a win unless they can defeat the USSR. It's very unlikely they could ever do that, so I'm not sure they can.
>>30324068
Delay the war 2 years until Mussolini could train his army properly. Send Nazi officers to replace the garbage tier Italian ones.
Italy takes Yugoslavia and Greece by itself, letting the Germans start Barbarossa 6 weeks earlier. Italians hold the British in Africa. Moscow falls in 41.
What about the idea that Stalin was going to attack Germany First?
>>30324068
1. Don't start shit in Poland or with France and England
2. Wait until Stalin goes full dickwad then get France and England to help you put them in their place
3. Never go full Nazi. This was the main reason they suffered as much sabotage as they did in areas where once welcomed as liberators...in fact just drop the whole arian thing.
4. Fuck Italy and Japan, they're nothing but trouble.
5. Make friends with the US. They can help your economy recover better than war can and if you can convince them that you aren't going to be dickheads then they may be able to get some of your treaty restrictions lifted.
>>30324465
>invade
>the west
>calls them idiots
>>30324565
The Soviets were allies of convenience to the Western nations, nothing more. Their actions both before and after the war illustrated this point.
Had Germany not taken the offensive and Stalin not gotten his nose bloodied as badly as he did in Finland he'd either have invaded Germany or something else would have sparked a war between him and the West.
>>30324579
kill yourself now
>>30324643
you asked a question, I gave the only real answer. The only way for Germany to survive WWII was to not start it in the first place.
>>30324358
>>30324384
Which may have happened if Britain and France hadn't declared Poland the "last straw". They didnt even have units to back up their declaration.
This is assuming there is no change before the war starts.
- Invasion of Poland needs no change
- Don't invade Norway, allow the British to invade Norway first (there was a race for Norway) and help Norway to get the moral high ground
- Only go through Belgium, the Netherlands can be ignored
- No alliance with Japan
- Tell Italy to stay out of Greece.. for now
- TELL ITALY NOT TO INVADE GREECE
- Make sure Yugoslavia stays pro-Axis by attempting to prevent the pro-Allies coup from happening
- Assuming the Battle of France still goes roughly according along the same historical lines, do not allow the Dunkirk Evacuation happen and capture the troops
- Sign the armistice with France but do not occupy the northwest, make sure most of the military equipment is confiscated and make northern France demilitarized
- See if it's possible to make peace with Britain now and see if it's possible to release Belgium without bad shit happening
- If peace wasn't possible, just bomb the shit out of the British (but make goddamn sure the civilians don't get bombed)
- Don't waste resources and manpower on hunting, transporting and killing Jews nor reshape Poland in our own image
- With Yugoslavia non-belligerent and/or friendly and no Greece being occupied, a lot of manpower and time was saved to be used for Barbarossa
Get Japan to attack Russia invest in jets earlier on and manufacture the STG44 earlier.
>>30324734
stay away from my gf
>>30324068
Not be belligerent on the international stage. Not support fascist dictators.
Victory through smiles.
Make Germany the victim, make people sympathetic, garner support from the surrounding countries instead of invading them. Support political coups in surrounding countries like what happened in Austria.
Supply fascists in France and join in the civil war to "support a free France"
It doesn't really matter anyway, because eventually America will get tired of their shit anyway and curbstomp them with the UK.
>>30324778
No
>>30324734
>military R&D is a Civilization tech tree
>just rush nukes and power armor!
Stop. Plus, all the technology on the world won't help if horses are pulling your shit.
>>30324734
> specific pieces of non-logistics/C3 equipment can win a war
you must be over 18 to post.
>>30324734
Japan did invade Russia. Zhukov curb stomped them bad enough that they decided expanding south and taking their chances against the US and Britain was the safer route.
>>30324355
That's no solution.
>>30324843
Japan did invade Russia and get stomped, but that was on their own.
With Germany looming so large in the west, Japan would have a much more free hand to do as they wish in the Russian Far East
>>30324126
Wops fault for delaying the invasion. Greeks come on, can't even pay loans
>>30324068
1) never let hitler go any where near the army's command
2) never attack the vodka
3) tell hitler to gtfo of all meetings that have to do with the army
>Need Hitler for Germany to become Great
>Need Hitler to go away to keep Germany Great
The Final Problem
>>30325921
>he fell for the "Hitler was incompetent" meme
He drafted the plans to capture the largest fortress in the world using new and untested technologies, he committed to the blitzkrieg in France against the advice of all his generals and conquered it in 45 days, and he ordered his generals to stick to their original plans for invading Russia rather than giving in to the "zerg rush Moscow" farce that would have resulted in the entire German army suffering a greater than Stalingrad level defeat a year early.
>>30325921
>implying the core of the problem wasn't the military high command's assumption that killing enough soviet troops would lead to brest-litovsk2electricboogaloo
The German high command was just as fucked even without Hitler overruling them. The reason he started overruling them was because of their own fuckups and incorrect assumptions to begin with.
>>30326179
>>30326177
>>30324068
Not allowing the British to escape at Dunkirk, forcing the Brits to make peace with Germany.
Don't declare war on the US after Japan attacks.
Throw the entire German army at Moscow, capture or kill Stalin, bring an end to the Soviet Union, and liberate all of the nations under Soviet control.
Too bad Hitler was too stupid to think of these things.
>>30324384
So, how does Nazi Germany invade the Soviet Union in your scenario? With their vast amphibious forces?
>>30327566
>Not allowing the British to escape at Dunkirk, forcing the Brits to make peace with Germany.
This would have never happened though. The BEF was a tiny part of what the UK had to mobilize and the government, particularly Churchill who had an immense amount of pull, were determined not to make peace.
>>30324734
>Get Japan to attack Russia
They would never have done this because of how hard they got their shit stomped in the Battle of Khalkin Gol. More to the point the Japs needed oil and food more than Siberian raw materials, attacking south towards the colonial powers was always the better option for them.
>invest in jets earlier on
You can't base your entire air force around an aircraft whose engines burn out in 10 hours of flight time. More to the point rushing Me-262s into service would just trigger the Brits and yanks to rush P-80s, Meteors and Vampires into service.
> and manufacture the STG44 earlier.
Small arms don't win wars, more to the point keeping the old factories churning out K98ks was cheaper, which is why they did that. Switching over to a new service rifle means you have less rifles.
Better Intelligence/ secure comms is a nice start
All this fancy tech means nothing if the Allies could read Enigma, and all the Axis ciphers and counter their moves. See MAGIC, ULTRA PURPLE
That and having their spies turned as double agents.
>>30324068
The most potent opportunity that Nazi Germany passed up was the use of the indigenous peoples in the non-Russian portions of the Soviet Union to wage a hybrid war that would weaken the (already unstable) Soviet war machine and provide even greater advantage to the Germans.
Unfortunately, their racial bigotry caused them to be shortsighted on a strategic scale, and they mistreated the peoples of Eastern Europe to such a degree as to appear no better than Stalin. Had they appeared as liberators, rather than brutal conquerors, they could have deprived the USSR of vital resources and manpower--allowing the Germans to make a strategic pause before making a final push to Moscow.
That, combined with simply ignoring Britain (or resorting to unrestricted submarine warfare to hinder shipping) and not declaring war on the US in support of Japan, then Germany could have easily consolidated power and addressed the logistical weaknesses that made it vulnerable to Soviet counterattack later in the war.
>>30324111
This. Their logistics were absolute fucking garbage, and it wasn't just Hitler's fault.
>>30324068
team up with America, after that they tear the slavshits a new one
>>30327931
It largely was. He encouraged the various companies making weapons for him to not cooperate, contributing to the fact that almost none of their vehicles had shared parts, and this was not just their AFVs that had this issue. Even the various factories that made fighters made their own modifications independent of one another with no standardization.
Compare that to the Americans who so standardized things to the point that most AFVs from early war to the end of the war used the same or similar chassis and relatively interchangeable parts.
>>30324329
>Use Chemical weapons in Russia, blame it on the USSR having an internal coup
Jesus fucking christ.
You think the ruskies dont have them?
>>30324811
>all the technology on the world won't help if horses are pulling your shit.
Why does everybody have this problems with the horses? They're cheap and they get stuff from place A to place B. When majority of your troops are going to march on foot anyway horse s trotting along vs. cars driving I gonna get your troops to the battle any faster.
Cars are cooler though I give you that.
>>30329897
horses trotting along vs. cars driving ain't gonna get your troops to the battle any faster.
>>30329897
you know what happens to horses when you work them too hard in a Russian winter?
Hitler let's his generals work, Russia stays out of it and Italy doesn't fuck around in Africa
>>30324068
Get Britain to agree to terms.
I've written a lot more than that up on previous iterations of this thread, but, really, that's what it pretty much boils down to. The rest is just details of *how* you get them to agree to terms.
With the UK standing down, the US has a much harder time coming to Stalin's aid--FDR and his communist-packed administration may want to go after Germany, but without England to save, the American public won't support too much overt aid, especially when Japan attacks.
Oh, and mobilize the economy like everybody else did right when the war started. Sheesh.
>>30329932
Ever actually tried to operate car during Russian winter? I have and it's terrible. Plus during spring and autumn everything off the main roads is mud so your cars get stuck while horses are pulling fine. Russia didn't have proper roads at the time. During winter there is a shit load of snow everywhere so if you don't blow the roads you're once again stuck.
Of course if you have enough trucks you can mechanize you infantry to give them more mobility which gives you an advantage but as I said in Russia that advantage only works during the brief summer.
>>30329975
>horse gets dead cuz weather
>find another horse in fucking Russia or ride one in from Germany
>car breaks down
>warm it up and try again
or
>fix it with the tools carried
or
>use the spare parts on the fucking truck
60% of German logistics were horse-drawn, that's ridiculous for someone waging a 20th century war.
The only thing more insane was the Finns using Reindeer to pull their sleighs of ammo.
Assasinate FDR and Churchill as early as possible, preferably before either of them come to power.
This will also lead to the US coming out of the great depression in half the time, speed up japans campaign in china, prevent pearl harbor, and prevent germany from invading poland (since hitler really only wanted the danzig corridor), which also means WW2 probably wont happen in the first place. But if it did the US would probably stay neutral or even assist the axis, england would likely not go to war with germany either unless they felt their african colonies were at risk.
Instead germany would economically teleport from the 30's to the 90's, found some kind of more powerful version of the EU, and politically swallow most of the countries located on europe's floppy dick, otherwise known as norway and sweden. then they'd begin feeding their perpetual-war requiring economy with africa, the middle east, and possibly eventually russia/slavlandia.
>>30330005
>>find another horse in fucking Russia or ride one in from Germany
Horses were plentiful in Russia for the reasons I already gave.
>>car breaks down
>>warm it up and try again
They had to start bonfires under tanks to warm them up. How do you do that with a car?
>60% of German logistics were horse-drawn, that's ridiculous for someone waging a 20th century war.
Logistically speaking the only advantage of a car over a horse at the time was the load. Car can transport more weight. In Russia however I would wager that the horse was more practical.
I agree Germans should have invested more to their transport vehicles but inorder to further mechanize their infantry to properly capitalize on blitzkrieg and transform it to proper shock and awe.
>The only thing more insane was the Finns using Reindeer to pull their sleighs of ammo.
Considering we didn't have proper roads at the time and reindeer doesn't mild cold like the horse does It isn't that insane at all. Come to Lapland sometime and you'll understand why it makes sense here.
>>30330089
reindeer doesn't mind cold like the horse does*
What is up with me today? It's like if suddenly lost the ability to spell check and make odd mistakes due to it.
>>30324422
>now the soviet union know how to mass build assalt rifles in 1941
except they literally couldn't mass produce them you fucking idiot
there's a reason most countries in the war defaulted to bolt actions, and the USSR was no different.
>>30324468
>he could've told them to hold off on attacking the U.S, because that pretty much fucked him over.
you're an idiot, the krauts literally did tell those crazy nips to not do it in the first fucking place
>>30330117
USSR actually defaulted to PPSH during the war. Unlike the others who went for full caliber rifles.
>>30324422
Had Soviet Union had the know how to build intermediate caliber full-auto capable rifles during the war why the fuck did they go for PPSH?
>>30330089
Oh, you're a Finn, yeah it makes sense why you jerk off the Nazis.
Anyway, reindeer logistics made sense because they generally need less feed carried, and move better in cold environments, which made great logistic support for their ski units.
That being said, American halftracks shit all over horses.
>They had to start bonfires under tanks to warm them up. How do you do that with a car?
If only someone came up with some item that could, I dunno, warm your engine without requiring a massive fire...
German logistics were complete dogshit, this isn't really debatable. Trucks are more reliable, and when they break you can fix them, you don't have to euthanize them. You also know how long they take to get places pretty generally.
One of America's greatest advantages it brought to the war was the massive manufacturing base able to inundate the allies with motorized and mechanized units, trucks and halftracks gave Allied units a massive mobility advantage over their German counterparts, also, if you have motorized or mechanized supply lines and units, you are much less likely to outrun your supply lines, which frequently happened to the German units early in the war.
>>30330125
>you're an idiot, the krauts literally did tell those crazy nips to not do it in the first fucking place
And yet Nips decided to do it so Krauts tried to help the Japs by allowing them access to kraut spies near Pearl Harbor.
>>30330117
the mosin nagant was not the generic russian arm of ww2. that would go to the ppsh.
england used the enfeild because they were cheap and had to supply 1/3 of the worlds population with guns.
the US used a semiauto which later was modified and became the M14.
italy was poor and covered in vomit and spaghetti.
and germany used the k98 only because hitler used one in ww1 and was biased towards them. oh, and because of military restrictions placed on them after ww1.
russia could mass produce a select fire rifle if they knew how.
>>30330163
>russia could mass produce a select fire rifle if they knew how
the russians had the SVT-40 fielded in the early years of the war but stopped production to switch to the easier to make mosin-nagant.
if the ppsh wasn't so piss-easy to make then it wouldn't have been fielded, there's no way the ruskies could have done R&D for a select fire assault rifle and actually cranked out examples to use in the war
-Build a time machine
-Send cyborgs back through time to assassinate John Connor
>>30330089
The issue with horse drawn logistics in WWII wasn't so much the horse vs truck, but the difference between Russian horse breeds and central European breeds. Russian draft horses typically came from mongolian ancestry, and tended to be very hardy in extreme cold with little food. Central European horses were bred for warmer environments and required much more in the way of food, causing a lot of horses dead to cold and starvation during the winters.
Perhaps destroying the French and bef at Dunkirk forcing a surrender and turning the two front war into a one front war with Russia
>>30324638
Good points, including that there is a pervasive idea that Germany and the Soviet Union were on a crash course because of a "clash of ideologies". This seems dubious due to many factors. It is not guaranteed that they would have fought but be honestly just do not know what would have happened.
>>30330153
>Oh, you're a Finn, yeah it makes sense why you jerk off the Nazis.
Didn't jerk of to Nazis but rather tried to defend ye olde horsey from unfair criticism when it comes to WW2 and eastern front.
>German logistics were complete dogshit, this isn't really debatable
Stretched way too long and thin. Agreed.
>Trucks are more reliable, and when they break you can fix them
Not in cold environments but at the western front trucks have the advantage that I'll admit.
>One of America's greatest advantages it brought to the war was the massive manufacturing base able to inundate the allies with motorized and mechanized units..
Agree with you there completely when it comes to the western front. Eastern front was a bit different for obvious reasons.
>motorized and mechanized units
Also thank you. I was using the term mechanized since I couldn't remember the word motorized.
>>30330153
how do you repair a truck when all of the liquids inside have frozen solid and the engine has seized up as a result?
how do you supply enough fuel to keep the engines running because if you turn them off the fuel lines bust?
what about when the rubber in the tires solidifies and crumbles away? or when the halftrack sinks into the mud because your constantly running and engine has melted the ice/ground while everyone slept?
these are slightly more advanced model T fords were talking about. they broke down constantly be no one understood how to winterize a vehicle properly at the time.
The crux of Germany's down fall was not the Soviet Union, it was the damage to Germany's ability to produce materiel from US Strategic bombing. If you could point to one crucial aspect of Germany's defeat, it was the USAAF that destroyed German industry.
Germany would have to deal with this.
Maybe giving Donitz his request 300 Uboats instead of building stupid pocket battleships would have strangled the UK enough to facilitate an invasion of the UK to deny the USAAF bases for its bombers. Dunno how realistic that was, my hunch is an invasion would not be feasible, but I don't think the UK was very well equipped in the early portion of the war.
>>30330163
>PPSH was the standard gun
>17.1 million Mosin Nagants produced just in WWII, not counting the millions produced before the war and reissued
>5 million PPSH variants produced in WWII
Want me to explain why you're retarded?
>M14 is an updated M1
>M14 uses a "White expansion/cutoff" while the M1 is a long-stroke piston
>M1 uses clips fed in the top of the gun
>M14 uses detachable magazines fed in through the bottom
>M1 is 30-06
>M14 is 7.62x51mm NATO
Yeah no
>>30330222
Germany wasn't going to "win" on their terms as early as 1942. Destruction of the 6th Army at Stalingrad and the gutting of Army Group South at in 1943 was a blow they weren't going to recover from. This was well before Allied strategic bombing accomplished anything of note. Strategic bombing sped up thd collapsd, but was in no way responsible for it.
Agreed on the submarines however.
>>30330241
Not the guy you replied to, but
>>M14 is an updated M1
It literally is though.
>>30330204
>not jerking off the nazis
yeah I was just taking the piss
Your argument is inherently flawed though, basically you're saying that if you're fighting a war in Russia tomorrow, if you use horses you'll do better than using trucks.
I know that's a gross misrepresentation, but that's where this road ends.
I will give you that horses prove to have more utility on the Eastern Front, but still fall short of motorized equipment.
>>30330210
>The US released "Winterization Kits For Automotive Vehicles" during the war to prevent climate-related immobilization of their logistics trains
They were extremely crude, but they worked. You can't winterize a horse.
>>30330089
You might be able to find farms and such that might have un-evacuated horses during Barbarossa, but any time after that, the farms are deserted. The Soviets needed horses as well, and they moved millions of horses out of the way of the Wehrmacht.
Now all your horses have to come from outside of the Soviet Union. The Germans cleaned Poland and France out of horses by 1944. This is why the allies declared all horses in Europe valid targets and encouraged fighter pilots to strafe them.
>>30330285
>it's the same
>outside of the feed system, gas system, round, and twist rate
sure, alright, you win.
>>30324068
There's an alternate universe story where the Nazi's win called "The Anglo-American Nazi War".
The author (who is a massive SJW cuck) openly admits his story needs everything the Nazis do in the first two years of the war to go perfectly.
If you ignore the author the story isn't a bad read.
>>30330210
When it's that cold all the horses and likely some of your men are dead. Also horses have tremendous ground pressure, more than that of a tire. Half-tracks handle mud far better than horses do.
What freezes in a truck? mainly the coolant and battery acid. Gasoline freezes at -50C, which is colder than even 1941 winter. Engine oil doesn't freeze. You can start a truck with just gas and engine oil working, then the engine heat melts the coolant.
And yes, winter kits were issued to trucks. Studebaker gave almost their entire production to the Soviets, and their trucks had winter adaptations out of the factory.
>>30330291
Are you an idiot? Horses (assuming they were bred for it) were more useful in the USSR in the 1940s because the rail and road network of the USSR was tiny. The infrastructure then is not the same as it is today, same with the capabilities of logistics vehicles traveling offroad. The same issues that plagued vehicles did not exist in western europe, and unlike Germany and the USSR logistics situation on the eastern front Western Europe was small enough that logistics could be entirely motorized (and the US had massive, safe industrial centers to build those trucks).
>>30330339
>more useful
yeah, than on the western front
The Germans did what they had to do, if they had the ability to have a 100% motorized logistics train they would, and they would be better for it.
>>30330291
>Your argument is inherently flawed though, basically you're saying that if you're fighting a war in Russia tomorrow
If I sound like that it's because finns always expect to be in war with Russia tomorrow. Russophobia was written to our dna long before ww2.
>if you use horses you'll do better than using trucks.
Today I wouldn't choose a horse over a truck but in the 1930s and 1940s Russia had almost no roads at all and the ones that existed were pretty much unusable 3/4 of the year for the crude cars of the time. Off road trucks were only a dream at the time.
Same in Finland which is part of our success in winter war since Russians attempted to use their advantage of motorized units against us only to discover that we had even worse roads than they did. In many parts at the time if two cars met on a road one would have to drive on reverse for miles in order to let the other one pass. Destroying the lead vehicle would effective stop and trap a whole column of vehicles. We used this against Russians and Russians used this against Germans.
>>30330311
>it's the same
Show me where I said that
>>30330339
>Horses (assuming they were bred for it) were more useful in the USSR in the 1940s because the rail and road network of the USSR was tiny.
Horse-drawn logistics need road-networks you retard.
Horses were more useful because Germans had them, unlike trucks. NOT because Germans hated trucks and thought trucks were shittier than medieval transport.
Germans didn't equip their armored divisions because horses >>>>> trucks kekekkek
Horse-drawn logistics suck. No army used horses because they wanted to.
>>30330362
Yeah I'm familiar with and impressed by your... is the word motti? Motti tactics?
Anyway, having small ski units stop the lead vehicle while mobile artillery, AT teams, and mortars pummel the enemy to nothing
Fucking genius, and extremely effective.
Anyway, yeah, most motorized units did perform poorly in offroad conditions, but there were specialized vehicles, (see: halftracks) that did perform pretty well, better than horses.
The argument then becomes "well there weren't that many halftracks" but if we needed them, we could've retooled to provide as many halfbacks as we had trucks
horses weren't bad, but better options were available.
>muh horses don't need roads meme
Howdo you retards think you carry things with horses anyway?
>>30330425
on their back doi
no way putting 200 kilos of supplies on a horse kills it.
>>30330410
>horses weren't bad, but better options were available.
Yeah that's true. Also if they had widen half-track tracks and temporarily replaced front tires with skis they would had giant snowmobiles to transfer troops and equipment around for some reason they didn't..
>>30330439
>no way putting 200 kilos of supplies on a horse kills it.
Actually it probably will.
In any case Germans used horse-drawn carriages 99% of the time, as has everyone else who used horses to carry things a long way, including in Russia and Finland, because it's always faster and more efficient to use even shit roads than to pack your horses like a mule.
Your little pet theory is a conjecture based on nothing but ignorance and misunderstanding.
It is amusing though knowing that there are people in this world who believe the wheel is a useless invention or in fact a hindrance.
Meanwhile, guess what the Soviets used to carry shit in while they were driving the Krauts back from western Russia and Ukraine?
>>30330468
that was sarcasm. 200 kilos on the back of a horse absolutely kills it.
horses have pretty poor overall endurance, especially if it's cold or hot.
A reasonably fit person can easily walk farther than a horse while carrying a package. The Vietnamese and Chinese relied heavily on hand-drawn carts/human backs to carry their supplies to the front.
>it's another "I have no fucking clue about anything and repeat the shit that some fags on /k/ told me" thread
>>30330089
>They had to start bonfires under tanks to warm them up. How do you do that with a car?
There were other tricks for the cars, among other things:
1. Drain oil from engine, put in a metal container and heat it up before putting oil back.
2. Add glycerin to radiator and protect radiator with blanket and/or cardboard.
However the matter of motorizing units is more complex than that. Germany had no other source for gasoline or oil in general than Romania, with the whole supply chain being rather vulnerable and oil production being limited. Another thing was rubber (needed for tires, hoses etc), for which Germany had no real source at all and production capacity for artificial rubber was also somewhat limited.
>>30330538
Germany itself produced petrol, plus synthetic fuel for anywhere from a third to half of its needs.
>>30330157
it's because they misinterpreted his do not attack za burgers order into T-O-T-S-U-G-E-K-I them
>>30330125
>you're an idiot, the krauts literally did tell those crazy nips to not do it in the first fucking place
Please tell us when the krauts literally told those crazy nips not to bomb Pearl Harbor.
>>30324477
Where can i apply?
>>30330177
The more accurate description would be that the Soviets first shifted manufacturing from Mosin-Nagants to AVS-36 select fire rifle but once AVS proved unsatisfactory already before the war, they replaced it in production after only two years to SVT-38 semiautomatic. During Winter War also SVT-38 proved problematic, so they developed it to SVT-40, but in 1941 came the Germans and SVT-40 proved too expensive and complicated to be manufactured in massive scale. Hence they shifted rifle production back to M-N while manufacturing massive number of Ppsh and PPS sub machineguns in factories, which had not previously been making firearms.
>>30330542
Yes - Germany produced petrolium products from oil, but the oil first needed to come from somewhere and how many oil refineries did Germany have.
Synthetic oil used mainly coal as raw material, hence more coal to making synthetic fuel, less oil for making steel or heating homes.
>>30330609
Typo, should be: "...less coal for making steel or heating homes".
>>30324068
>Naziboo fantasy thread #98945614564534
Just fly around the world until time goes backwards
>>30324068
Actually succeed in operation Sea Lion, and continue destroying Fighter Command instead of focusing on bombing London.
Going directly for the fuel fields in Caucasus instead of jamming in Stalingrad and stopping there.
Making peace with the neutral Americans, and telling the Japs to not do shit to them (if they listened)
>>30324477
>You should apply to become a general.
Don't encourage him.. He might be stupid enough to actually make it..
The general issue with the Nazis was their ideology same with the Japanese at the time. While it works great for a small nation state with a homogenous ethnic groups the second you expand past your territory into foreign lands you will encounter issues, mainly that their are other people living there who might disagree with you views on exterminating them thereby making more enemies you have to fight, as well as saboteurs. That was Germany and japans fatal mistake. Especially for the Japanese who could have been seen as liberators of asia and have had the assistance of hundreds of millions of Chinese and Koreans,
>>30330864
Japanese weren't fascist. Their ideology wasn't anything close to the German one.
>>30330864
Underrated post. I like you.
>>30330877
the Japanese had their own unique brand of fascism I would recommend reading john Gunther's into asia for a contemporary view of japan at that time. They were much more like modern day china with competing ideological groups al united behind a loosely defined mission statement
>>30330900
>I can't prove what I said but I recommend you read this fluff pop-history book written by a journalist on something different because I am going to claim to have read it
I would recommend not having opinions on things until you have some knowledge on them.
>>30330877
the Japanese were Asians cosplaying as Europeans. Contrary to your statement a lot of the Japanese views mimicked Nazi ideology heck they even had a similar idea that their people were descendants of gods and also had charts of racial pureness much like the Germans. Heck the Germans even called the Japanese honorary Arians , but anyway I digress. There is a reason that after world war 2 the two competing super powers which are the united states and the soviet union had very open ideologies it allowed anyone to join them. almost anyone could be a communist (sorry rich folks), and almost every one could be an American (sorry commies).
>>30330920
umm this book was written in 1939, and the fact is that the Germans and the Japanese were indeed fascist both having citizens pledging undying loyalty to the state, a strong military first policy and the fact that citizens were viewed as a product of the state and in turn property of the state that must be maintained through racial purity policy..
>>30330920
also tell me what made the Japanese not fascist instead of insulting me, generally being able to demonstrate facts is a sign of a good argument, personal insults and devaluation indicate low intelligence and possible retardation. I know you are better then this anon. Prove me right and back your claims up.
>>30330920
as far as I know the one thing that separates fascism from standard totalitarianism is the incorporation of racial language into its mission statement. Ex : We the government of Germany who are racially pure Arians set forth to establish an area for the continuation of our people vs We the peoples of the soviet union set out to establish a land for the common people every where. Its a small but important difference, for someone like me it means the difference between ending up in a gas chamber or starving but alive on a commune farm.
>>30330974
no, fascism is characterized as extreme nationalist autocracy coupled with extreme protectionist trade policies.
Nazis technically weren't fascists, they were a distorted form of national socialism.
>>30324734
Small arms don't win modenr wars.(Yes WWII counts as modern since it wasn't muskets and shit.)
>>30324068
As I've said before; stop short of invading Poland and make do with the majority of losses due to Versailles having been returned and the whole of Czechoslovakia (which at the time was an important industrial country, Skoda works etc).
That ought to do it.
>>30324498
>MUH HOLOHAUX
euthanize yourself my dude
>>30324579
this
>>30324643
>the only way to survive is to not start shit
>"d00d kill urself the ebin nazis dindu nuffin dey was gud boyz"
lmao
>>30324068
Germany destroys the BEF at Dunkirk and makes peace with the British.
Germany doesn't stupidly ally itself with Japan so they never have to fight the US.
Treat the populations of the eastern European nations they liberated from the soviets with respect and gain them as allies, instead of having to spend fully a third of your forces on internal anti-partisan work.
Let the German military run the war instead of Hitler.
That ought to do it right there.
>>30325921
>acting like the German generals were that much better than Hitler
different leader/s same result
>>30324329
>Thinking any of that would change the outcome
>>30324355
>Then what?
>And wait for the russians to invade you instead?
>Tell the japanese "You know that oil you really want?. Dont get it"
>How would deporting the jews change the outcome?
>>30324468
>then snuck up on China
Yeah just transport an an entire army to China and keep it supplied.
Good fucking luck.
I swear to god, you wehraboos are retarded.
>>30330974
Fascism doesn't mean anything nowadays, apart from being a catch-all term for authoritarian governments. Back then, of course, it meant resembling Italy's government, then meant resembling Germany's government, then eventually morphed into the essentially meaningless term of today.
>>30330643
>actually succeed in operation Sea Lion
Your first mistake, operation Sea Lion, short of the British giving up or all catching Spanish Flu and randomly dying, was never, ever going to be pulled off successfully.
That's even if they could destroy fighter command (also unlikely).
>>30324697
>Brits
>making peace with the huns
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
>>30331595
>wait for the Russians to invade you instead
Would have worked out better for the Germans, if it would have even happened in the first place.
>>30330939
I am not retard! No it's not true!! Not true!
>>30330163
>k98
>ww1
Yeah fuck off. That's the g98 and the carbine variant
>>30330163
>k98
>ww1
Yeah fuck off. That's the g98 and the carbine variant
>>30330163
>k98
>ww1
Yeah fuck off. That's the g98 and the carbine variant.
>>30324068
Germany winning would have to involve both the USSR and the US not getting invovled.
And then a lot of luck.
Most likely if Japan didn't Pearl up the Harbor, the US would have gotten involved anyway.
If Germany did betray Russia, Russia would have betrayed Germany.
Germany didn't value theoretical physics, so they won't get the bomb.
Even if they did, they can't even reach the US and probably won't be able to stop the USSR steam roll with only a few nukes.
Even without the US and USSR. Germany's economy was based on conquering territory. And would start slowing without economic reforms. Giving the rest of Europe a good chance at taking them down.
>tl;Dr Germans BTFO
>>30327585
>So, how does Nazi Germany invade the Soviet Union in your scenario?
They could have allied themselves with Poland and invade Russia. Poland alone pushed back soviets in 1920, Polish-German alliance would wreck them. With resource rich land and a competent ally close Germany would annihilate western europe.
But no, the eternal kraut had to do it again...
Now the eastern europe is fucked because of USSR, and west is getting fucked because of feminazis and islamic immigrants. Good fucking job, krauts.
>>30324068
Not invading the USSR was not an option; the USSR would invade the reich otherwise. By the time Operation Barbarossa began, the soviets were actually starting to amass forces to attack. (some authors do defend this hypothesis; anyway, the pact was meant to be dissolved and whoever would do it would have the advantage
>>30332705
This. Allying with Poland would surely have guaranteed them a victory against the USSR.
>>30324068
Basically you do what Germany has done since the end of WW2. Wage an economic war rather than an actual war. By using the EU, Germany has forced most of Europe to use the Euro (which is basically a re-branded Mark) massively boosting exports and economic output at the expense of southern European countries (Spain, Italy, Greece) etc having a massive trade imbalance in favour of Germany. All that wealth has been sucked up and sent straight to the Fatherland. What they've done is won the war of hearts and minds. The EU is now seen as having the moral high ground and being a good thing by the liberals. France is basically a lapdog and if Britain doesn't vote to leave they will be right under the German thumb too. What's basically happening now is a slow but steady "harmonising" of laws (in the EU's own words) to pave the way for a United States of Europe which will be run by and for the benefit of Germany at the expense of the other nations, whilst France and to a lesser extent Britain get a few crumbs from the table to keep them compliant. They've already started to form treaties to join armies and make an EU armed services. Very soon you will see foreign soldiers from the EU army being sent to bases in other countries to keep them compliant, without invitation and with no way of having them removed. What people don't realise is that if Britain does not vote leave then Germany will have won the third world war without firing a single shot
>>30332784
Hmmmm I was wondering where all my tin foil went
>>30332705
but the foremost objective of the german war plan was to secure the lebensraum, Poland being the prime target
>>30332784
The fuck are you talking about?
Nazi German economy rose quickly because they were preparing for war. Short term war preparations will always kickstart your economy, and it will ruin it long-term. That was one thing. Secondly, you somehow think France and England would do nothing seeing economical warfare from Germany. The amount of ignorance in your post is beyond being retarded.
>>30324111
It's naive to think the Soviets wouldn't attack Germany sooner or later, the earlier the war started the better for Germany. They were on borrowed time and every day the Soviets got stronger, they couldn't afford to not have the first strike.
>>30324476
Leningrad was a terrible drain on resources but you couldn't ignore it, it was too strategically important. Plus by 1943 and 44 the Nazis were more just holding the line then trying any serious plays to take the city.
Also, I need to dispel a myth about Stalingrad. It was not the primary target of Operation Blue, it was just the target of the secondary contingent of the army group while the main thrust was at the Caucuses oil fields. Stalingrad needed to be held in order to secure the northern flank, it was the largest city in the region and seat on the Volga River, it couldn't not be ignored.
>>30324126
Moscow falling wouldn't have ended the war, and one big push towards Moscow and not along the whole front would have meant they would have been easily flanked and encircled by the Red Army.
>>30325493
June was the earliest they could have launched the invasion, anything earlier is mud season.
Also, thought this was interesting, it's Hitler being secretly recorded talking to Mannerheim, it really reveals a lot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oET1WaG5sFk&list=WL&index=1
>>30324126
god shut up
You can't just right click all your armies on moscow you dumbass.
Ever heard something like flanks?
The invasion of the Soviet union was executed almost perfect.
It was just a impossible plan/idea to beat them.
>>30332850
Half, or all of Euroasia would have been the god damn Labensraum if not for krauts butthurt over Gdansk/danzig. Germany could have taken entire Westen Europe and turn it into technocratic reich-like empire, and Poland would unite non-mongoloided slavic people in intermarum-like state, which would supply whole Europa with food and resources. Take 200 years of cooperation and it would meld into a german speaking (german language is more practical and easier) superstate.
But no.
>Muh labensraum
>Muh slavic subhumans
>>30332945
I have a feeling Germany didn't feel as confident about Poland's value as a military ally as you do now.
>>30332963
Of course they didn't.
Poland have been just reborn, and had like 20 years of independence. And STILL they stopped soviets in 1920 alone, which did impress Hitler.
Not to mention Pilsudski was basically a sempai to Hitler, and when he heard about Hitler gaining power in Germany, he wrote him a letter stating "hurry up. I don't have much time".
Now search for some German generals reports or mails about fighting Poles during Blitzkrieg, and read about some battles. Ever heard of Westerplatte or Wizna?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Westerplatte
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Wizna
Now imagine those fucking soldiers armed with German tech. Seriously, if not for Eternal Kraut butthurt, Europe would pretty much look like first Starship Troopers movie.
>>30324068
Italians not being retarded and ineffective at modern warfare.
Had the Italians achieved their objectives against Greece in the summer of 1941, the Germans could have launched Barbarossa as scheduled in May, thus avoiding the paralyzing defeat at the gates of Moscow when the winter freeze set in.
Decapitating Soviet leadership with a capture of Moscow would have been a fatal blow to the USSR regime IMO.
Leave it to the fucking Italians... and lose an entire world war and have your nation become a colony of foreign powers..
>>30324443
>>30324443
>Earlier war production probably wouldn't hurt either.
Except that this isn't what natsoc germany was all about, contrary to allied atrocity propaganda. Unlike the allied nations Germany wanted peace, as the countless proposals for compromise from the german side toward England up until 1940 (Hitler let the british escape on purpose and halted his panzers before Dunkirk as a sign of his willingness to enage in peace talks, but Churchill the fat sow madman drunkard manic would in his own words rather "burn the whole of europe down" than let germany win the war) are clearly showing. Also the allieds developed long range bombers as early as the early 30's so this clearly shows their genocidal intent toward carpet-bombing german civilian civ areas from the get-go
>>30333223
Germany broke every treaty the made and started the whole war. Started to send children rather than surrender.
But yeah, sure. The British were the bad guys.
Retard
>>30327808
That was because the head of the Abwehr, germany's secret service, Wilhelm Canaris hated Hitler. This guy did everything he could to take down hitler, gathering dirt on other nazi dignitaries so he stayed safely in power.
He for example stopped hitler from going after gibraltar, by turning the spanish and germans against each other.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_Canaris
Read up on him, the guy's life is really fascinating.
-Develop atomic bomb
-Build 1000 nukes
-Develop stealth bomber with 6000 mile range
-Nuke: Britain, France, Soviet Union, China, USA, Italy, Sweden, Canada
>>30333223
>engaged in war with someone
>they fuck up and fail to beat you when you're in a corner
>you're now a dickhead for not being nice and surrendering because they didn't annihilate one of your forces when they had the chance
Oh and:
>allies were the ones first interested in carpet bombing German civilians
Shame that the Germans started the entire tactic in Guernica.
Go fuck yourself.
>>30333134
Germans weren't stopped at Moscow because of the weather.
>>30330337
>>30330339
>>30330358
(and all the previous posts in this argument)
You guys are forgetting the main reason Germany needed horses--they didn't have enough fuel to operate a fully-motorized supple chain in the first place.
>>30332945
This is just pink polish fantasies. (Though scenario sounds like interetsing plot and setting for a video game)
>>30333448
They needed horses because they didn't have trucks. It doesn't go deeper than that. Whether they would've or wouldn't have been able to operate a fully motorized supply chain is besides the question.
>>30332736
Why how?
>>30333416
Germans were incapable of pursuing the attack at Moscow because of the inclement weather and the tens of thousands of men that simply froze to death.
Missing tens of thousands of men from your attacking force will kind of fuck with your capabilities to execute an attack, no? Especially when your metal weapons become so brittle, the charging handles snap off and so do your fingers and genitals.
>>30333341
Flawless plan.
>>30333514
Germans had more non-combat casualties in the summer than in the winter months, you retard. And there was never tens of thousands of men that froze to death.
>>30333379
No they didn't, the planes at guernica were all small to medium bombers. Like the He 111, and Do 17. As with german doctrine favored small bombers in a support role (think stukas) than big stratospheric bombers. Guernica was a small town (100-1000 deaths peanuts) and a small experiment. Germans did not bomb civilians that much in France, Poland, Russia etc.
However, you are right, guernica was the first "terror" bombing aimed at breaking the will of the enemy by bombing civilians.
The brits on the other hand invented the concept of the long range strategic bomber to specifically target and destroy cities. Planes like the lancaster and shit and did so very early, in 1940. Then Americans perfected it with B27s superforteress.
If the allies would have lost the war, victors writing history, the indiscriminate bombing the americans did in Germany (dresden for example) or Japan would have been considered a war crime. They killed more japanese for example on a single firebomb raid on tokyo then with the two nuclear bombs combined.
>>30333759
More civilians died at Stalingrad than Dresden. In war, people get killed and they die.
>>30333759
>the Germans weren't very good at killing civilians from the sky
>this somehow changes the fact that every major power in world war two killed civilians from the sky, and if anything, the German and Japanese campaigns had less military purpose than the American and British ones
You don't have to be contrary to prove how smart you are.
We're all friends here.
>>30333781
>>30333802
All I'm saying is that it is not all black and white. The good allies just defending and heroically killing the ebil mean baddie germans.
The goal in war is not to die for your country it's to make the other guy die for his. All is fair. I do not reproach the british inventing strategic bombers no more that the germans inventing other shit to kill.
I'm just tired of the stupid narrative of "we were nice and they did bad stuff but we won". We won because we were better at killing people than they were and I'm pretty happy with that fact.
>>30324068
The allies won because “our German scientists were better than their German scientists”, said one of Churchill's closest aides, Sir Ian Jacob.
Maybe if Hitler hadn't alienated jews and intellectuals he would have won.
>>30332308
>>30332325
>>30332424
la triple poste
>>30324734
>this is how R&D works
STG44 is not going to save your from Russian Winter and no supplies
Jets are not going to save you when the fucking fuel is refined from potatoes
kill yourself faggot
>>30333448
early war they had it
>>30324068
Seize the Suez canal early, giving the Third Reich access to African and middle middle eastern oil
>>30334346
They weren't short of oil until late in the war.
>>30324068
He should have waited until the end of the war to gas the Jews. He should have combined efforts with Japan to attack the soviets on 2 fronts and made the japs not attack America yet, then they could split up the oil gained in Russia to solve Japan's oil embargo. Then if Britain still didn't give up by then invade them, after the war give them and other occupied countries (except Russia and a few others) independence but with a pro Nazi government in place. Leave the USA alone and have a 3 way Cold War with Japan the USA and Germany.
>>30333134
>the Germans could have launched Barbarossa as scheduled in May, thus avoiding the paralyzing defeat at the gates of Moscow when the winter freeze set in.
they could not - weather and supply situation did not allow it
>>30333964
>Maybe if Hitler hadn't alienated jews and intellectuals
Good point. For Nazi Germany to not screw up like they did, changes would have to start all the way back when they first gained power, not just changes to war plans '39 on.
>>30333304
>the allies had access to the enigma code for the entire war and they subsequently never found out because a man in charge of abwehr from 1935 didn't like Hitler
Oh please, that's bullshit and you know it, the Poles had worked out how to decipher Enigma in 1932, that's before Canaris was even in charge.
The Abwehr were just shit, get over it.
>Turning the Spanish and Germans against each other
Please, do explain.
>>30333759
>no they didn't
>Guernica was the first
>the FIRST
So yes, they did.
>B27 Superforteress
Oh, you're taking the piss, makes sense.
> the indiscriminate bombing the americans did in Germany (dresden for example) or Japan would have been considered a war crime
Well a) the British were involved too and b) the Blitz on London wasn't considered a war crime either, you're crying about something that neither side considered a war crime.
>firebombing killed more than the two nuclear bombs comibined
Wrong. The combined atomic bombings killed around (At a low estimate) killed around 219,000, the low estimate for the entire firebombing campaign on Tokyo was around 75,000.
Even the high estimate for the Tokyo firebombing raids was 200,000, still less.
>>30334405
What kind of weather situation in May stalled them?
Too much fucking sunshine and clear skies, lel.
>>30333541
What is the factual basis of your sentence? You think I'm going to take your word at face value?
Most of the people who post here are worthless degenerates.
>>30333880
>we were nice and they did bad stuff but we won
Well ok then, the Nazis were bastards, the Soviets were bastards and the Western Allieswere but not to the same degree, not by a long shot, then we won and sixty years on asshole faggots still buy into Nazi/Soviet propaganda about how they didn't do anything wrong.
>>30324068
Better logistics. The tiger got shit for fuel efficiency compared to a t34. Guess who doesn't have that much oil?
Not wasting shitloads of paratroopers on Crete.
Not wasting time fucking around over Britain. Bomb the military targets.
Stop wasting steel on ubertanks and build more aircraft and U boats.
>>30329487
to be fair, all the Allies had were WW1 era mustard gas analogues, phosgene, and lewisite. The Germans had tabun, it wouldn't even be a fight. The idea is still pretty extreme though.
>>30324068
Hitler becoming chancelor in name only
Really put a whole lot more into building the National Socialist American Workers' Party in order to hopefully ally with or subvert America entirely or at least keep America neutral and out of the war.
Prevent the "Miracle at Dunkirk" from happening by just pushing Germany's tanks forward without their infantry screening; the cost of a few panzers would've been well worth annihilating Britain's entire army, core & all.
Prosecute the air war over Britain more intelligently by destroying the radar at Wydencliffe(sp?) et al so that the British would be unable to predict air raids, then just air raiding the shit out of Britain and starving the British with that nifty U-Boat blockade until they capitulate; if they don't capitulate, it's time for heavy strategic bombing followed by an amphibious invasion like a reversed Normandy.
Don't attack Russia... yet.
Put a lot more focus on North Africa with the intention to link up with and ally with the oil-rich Middle East, most of whom were so pro-Nazi that Iran officially announced its alliance with Germany during this thing where a German delegate visited their biggest airfield etc.... FREE FUCKING OIL!
Convince pre-Pearl-Harbor allies of Germany, CHINA, to attack either Russia or the French & British colonies in South-East Asia which Japan should be invading.
Convince Japan that Plan South is far better than Plan North, because the British & French are out of the picture and their oil-rich colonies in South-East Asia are ripe for the taking.
Once Britain is defeated, sue for peace and claim dominion over (much of) Europe.
>>30334917
What is the factual basis of your statement that Germans suffered tens of thousands of deaths from freezing? You worthless cunt.
>>30334906
Do you know what the rasputitsa is? Germany invaded as soon as the roads weren't a mudhole that would have stalled their advance before they reached Smolensk. The Yugoslavian and Greek fronts did absolutely nothing to throw off this timetable or drain strength from the main pushes in Barbarossa.
>>30324527
>For instance, battle of Britain was almost a German victory; a few more weeks and Britain might have negotiated a peace.
why does this idea, long since discredited by any reputable history still linger.
even when the RAF was being ground down it was still losing strength less rapidly than the luftwaffe, the change in tactics from airfield bombing to city bombing wasnt a switch from effective tactics to ineffective, but from ineffective to suicidal.
no fighter station was ever knocked out for longer than 24 hours, airframe production was ahead of losses pretty much week to week and certainly over the course of the battle as a whole, and not only did pilot numbers actually increase during the battle but there was a reserve of pilots in non flying jobs that could have been activated as well.
the battle of britain wasnt winnable for the germans
>>30324111
>The only possible way would be for them to not invade Russia.
Russia was building up forces on the border in a manner that appear to have been to Invade Germany at the time. Not invading Russia would of had the likely outcome of them being invaded in turn.
If Spain and Italy had contributed more to the war, it would have gone on for longer.
Spain was a solid nation by that point with Franco in full power. Had he closed the Mediterranean to the British, I don't think the fight would have been too much for them.
Had Japan not attacked the U.S. on Dec 7, they could have instead waged a far more successful naval war against the Commonwealth nations.
>>30331624
Germany was not fascist. It was socialist.
It says so right in the name: "National Socialism".
Fascism is very close to socialism/communism, but it does have a few differences, chiefly the mechanism by which the government asserts its authority over the state.
>>30333499
They didn't have enough fuel to run that many trucks, so they focused their vehicle production on things that shoot.
Yes, they should have been on a wartime economy on 9/1/39, but "building trucks" alone is insufficient.
>>30324068
>All these plebs saying that barbarossa was a mistake
There was no more perfect time to invade the USSR, and Stalin was planning to invade Germany once he got the army back in order. Barbarossa was the best thing Germany could have done.
What they could have done would be to use nerve agents against the Russians and clean up procurement policy a bit. I mean, superheavy tanks are cool as shit, but what Germany needed was more PzIVs, if instead of some of the more ostentatious experimental projects the German army had focused on their pre-war objective of getting semi-automatic, detachable magazine fed rifles for their infantrymen; they would have been significantly more formidable on the ground.
If they went full-out Japanese with their weapons policy on the Eastern front and better equiped their military with the stuff it actually needed, they might have been able to hold onto Poland and Eastern France by offering the Allies favourable terms for armistice and remaining in a state of war while they rebuilt Europe.
If Germany had won WWII, or managed a more favourable armistice, the cold war would have been much more interesting for a while, but I doubt that they could have held up well under the economic pressure of opposing the Americans, Soviets, and British Commonwealth.
>>30337208
Fascism is a political system, Socialism is an economic system. Germany was both Fascist and Socialist during WWII because its Fascist government embraced a Socialist economic policy built on the then radical idea of leaving the gold standard for a floating-point standard of currency. Capiscè?
>>30337702
Thanks Mr. Shekelstein
>>30337713
What about the definition of either Socialism or Fascism makes me Jewish?
>>30337702
What are you smoking? Italy was fascist, Germany was socialist. Both are political as well as economic systems.
>>30338189
National Socialism is a subset of Fascism, dumbass
>>30338189
Facism is a system of direct managment of a country by an autarchal head of state, socialism is limited governmental control of an economic system. They overlap a bit, but they aren't the same thing.
>>30324068
-Hitler floods the airwaves, especially American airwaves, on how he never wanted war with Britain.
-Concentrate all resources on fighting Russia
-DEFEND against, not attack, the British Isle.
-Rush all technological advancements in the war against Russia
-When slant eyed Jap crazies make ware against America....DO NOTHING
-Send emissaries or political gestures to the US that you want peace with them.
-Look as harmless as a dove
-Make sure to defeat Britain in the African desert.
-When Italy sucks cock hard, don't divert resources away to help them, concentrate on winning your own front and protect your own flanks
-Use the damn Me242 as a fighter first, not a bomber.
-Secure oil in Africa by defeating britain so you have enough juice to keep it up against Russia
>>30324068
none the organic state is inherently flawed
they would have collapsed anyway
>>30324068
>don't invade Russia
It was inevitable. Stalin wasn't an idiot, he was starting the military infrastructure to destroy Germany during their nonagression pact. Attacking as soon as possible to sucker punch them before they could effectively respond was the only choice.
Strategic decisions from there on out are up in the air though.
>>30330325
Late on seconding this, but this was a lot of fun to read. Sure, it's mostly a curbstomp but it's a satisfying one.
>>30330190
The issue with horse drawn logistics is that its rather shit for waging a modern war.
>>30330493
Studebakers and american trains
Not be totally overrated and bring a coat?
>>30324068
1. Align with China instead of Japan. This will keep the USA neutral and Germany was friendly with the Chinese right up to 1941. Japan was little use anyway beyond taking British colonies and they'd likely do that opportunistically anyway.
2. Focus on knocking the UK out. Invading is impossible but fucking up Africa, Malta and persuading Spain to let you take Gibraltar will work. If you can persuade the Spanish to join even better since that'll make the UK seem even more isolated and remove the support of their one remaining European ally (Portugal). Hitler was offering favourable terms to the UK anyway and they'll duck out once their Empire starts to take hits. Also avoid the Battle of Britain. Waste of good pilots and again impossible for the Germans to ever win.
Either of these helps. Both would be ideal.
The easiest way to survive, of course, is not attacking the USSR but that is outside the realm of possibility.
>>30341734
Also:
3. Magically persuade Finland to attack Leningrad or at least let German forces attack Leningrad from Finland. If you can deal with Arkhangelesk though that's less doable (cuts off lend-lease convoys). Combine this with a greater focus on strategic targets (Moscow, oil) instead of worthless targets like Stalingrad and you might force the Soviets into a peace.
>>30341734
>>30341748
Finally:
4. Put Speer in charge of industry in 1934 (or at least 1939) with full powers and start training fucking snipers. The Germans actually thought they were outdated/worthless until AFTER the Battle of Stalingrad. Ironic considering their responsibility for Soviet scope technology and sniper tactics.
2. and 4. are most reasonable. Even if 2. fails to take the UK out you've saved a lot of planes/competent pilots along with shutting off the Med and gaining a valuable source of fuel. D-Day would have failed without the practical knowledge gained from Torch, Husky and Avalanche and these are nigh-on impossible for the allies now.
4. Is important because German industry was a clusterfuck.
Also I meant Murmansk, not Arkhangelsk. Obviously that's impractical.
>>30341734
>1. Align with China instead of Japan. This will keep the USA neutral and Germany was friendly with the Chinese right up to 1941.
That's actually pretty brilliant. Even though the US would eventually have to push Japan's shit in, they wouldn't want to touch Germany. Hitler could have also expressed his disgust for what the Japs did to the Chinese at Nanking. FDR would probably look at Adolf favorably.
But what would help America to cease sending so much support to Britain (At least send Britain no more armor or big guns save for food supplies for their civilian population)?
Also do you think not siding completely with the Japs would make them try to turn on Germany? Those anime mofos were apeshit insane back then.
>>30341825
>But what would help America to cease sending so much support to Britain (At least send Britain no more armor or big guns save for food supplies for their civilian population)?
Make Britain seem a lot weaker and only attack its Empire holdings (Africa, Middle East, Malta). Bombing the UK makes it hard to claim the UK is acting imperialistic rather than in self defence. Indeed the UK bombing your cities 'unprovoked' makes the British the bad guys. You can see it being a touchy subject post-Pearl Harbour. Tanks and big guns on mainland Britain are of little-no use to the UK anyway once you've removed Africa.
The real interest is in stopping lend-lease to the USSR. The USA was hardly friendly with them and the Soviet-Japanese non-aggression pact wouldn't improve that.
>Also do you think not siding completely with the Japs would make them try to turn on Germany? Those anime mofos were apeshit insane back then.
Well Germany was friendlier to China at this time than Japan. Hitler himself was the one who changed that and it backfired somewhat when the Japs forced him to choose sides.
Regardless what can Japan do to Germany? They'd likely take Indochina from Vichy France but that only upsets the French. The Anglo-Japanese alliance was long dead and they were more interested in taking British colonies anyway.
>>30341863
>>30341825
It's also important to note that the Battle of Britain was the first defeat the of the Third Reich. Big moral boost for the UK and let the USA think the UK stood a chance.
>>30336181
Yes, by shit troops that got curb stomped in a matter of days by the Germans attacking.
It would have been even easier for the Germans if the Russians attacked first.
I've yet to see any compelling evidence that the Soviets were massing for an attack mind you.
>>30336243
Spain was still recovering from the civil war and they wouldn't have been able to stop the British.
>>30324068
>>30332942
>The invasion of the Soviet union was executed almost perfect.
this nigga
>>30337208
>It's in the name
They really did have effective propaganda, seventy years on and it still works.
>>30337633
>but what Germany needed was more PzIVs,
Tigers would always have a need on the battlefield. While Stug3's are impressive for their cost, and panzer4s seem decent, the Tigers were the perfect tank for spearheading through Russian lines. Their armor and gun was more than much of the 34s could handle. The KV tanks might have been heavies themselves but they were so slow the T34s would leave them behind. A Tiger would make target practice out of them.
>>30341895
face it pol fags nazi fagermany was a failure from the start with horrible leadership and a retarded ideology and it deserved everything it got from the allies
and never had any chance to win
>>30341899
>>30341897
>the Tigers were the perfect tank for spearheading through Russian lines.
this nigga too
>>30341891
>I've yet to see any compelling evidence that the Soviets were massing for an attack mind you.
They were planning some degree of defence but in 1941 no serious plans for assault were around. Bear in mind that the USSR and Germany were actively trading right up until the first shot was fired and the SS and NKVD meeting in Poland to fucking coordinate strategy merely months before.
>>30341898
Not than anon but Fascism =/= National Socialism. Hell look up Austria, the Austro-Fascists and the Austrian Nazis if you need proof.
There are a number of key differences including emphasis on religion, racial policies and economic conservationism etc. Early National Socialism was also radically different to post-Night of the Long Knives Nazism.
>>30337633
>Stalin was planning on invading Germany
[citation needed]
>Armistice with the western allies
Not as long as Churchill was breathing, nor did the western allies have to accept one, they knew they'd win eventually.
>Slightly better small arms...
...would have had a tiny effect.
>>30340865
>US believing Germany over Britain
>America's only knowledge of events came from the radio
Idiot.
>Defeat Britain in the desert
Unlikely.
>Use the Me242 as a fighter
I'm assuming you mean Me262.
It wouldn't have made a difference, uts only advantage over top end piston aircraft was speed, it's disadvantages were serious.
Not to mention that if the Grand had pumped out Me262's the allies would have countered with their own jet aircraft using superior engines with better alloys.
>>30341911
>Hurhh Deerrrr muh thin skinned Panzer 4s would be good during a spearhead assault.
Stop playing world of tanks faggot
>>30341899
>I know nothing about WW2 tactics
The local tactical superiority of a tank means little-nothing. Hell both France and the USSR had tactically superior tanks when invaded and both lost regardless. On paper, in fact, 1940s France could have wiped the floor with Germany in an armoured engagement.
One fucking KV held up an entire German advance for over a day due to the sheer difficulty in killing it. Still doesn't mean it was worth the logistical problems (certainly not in an offensive situation rather than a defensive one).
Moving on from that the logistical issues introduced by the Tiger and other snowflakey German designs alone made them an overall negative. Fuel, ammo (not shared with any other German tank of note), spare parts etc and the inability to cross certain bridges or move on certain roads is a fucking nightmare. The fact it often broke down adds to it. That doesn't even go into making it which, compared to the Panther or Panzer IV, was slow, expensive and skills-intensive.
Furthermore the Tiger was, in essence, a box carrying a good gun. In the hands of an experienced crew this worked. In the hands of untrained rookies it was fucking terrible. Experienced crews are limited.
Though Panthers were probably a better long-term investment than Panzer IVs. In defence a Stug or Hetzer is unarguably better value for money too not going into the fact they actually shared components with other common tanks.
>>30341734
>Britain will duck out once it's empire starts taking hits
So you're going to attack Australia, India, Malaysia, New Zealand, fucking Canada etc etc?
Britain wasn't going to bow out, dogged resistance was kind of their thing.
Having a vast empire and a far superior navy helped too.
>>30341945
>>US believing Germany over Britain
>>America's only knowledge of events came from the radio
>Idiot.
No U faggot. Fucking Vladiqueer Putin had a damn musty vatnik computer brigade that pumped out endless pro-Putin propaganda that the idiot neckbeards of the United States and other countries ate up. And we live in the information age!
Can you imagine Hitler doing the same where he makes himself out as a saint, doesn't attack Britain, and defeats Britain in Africa? Do you have any idea how many pro-Nazi Americans there were in the US at the time?
>Not to mention that if the Grand had pumped out Me262's the allies would have countered with their own jet aircraft using superior engines with better alloys.
What part of America is not in this fight don't you understand? And what allied nation would "pump" out jet aircraft with superior alloys? Russia that's being invaded? Britain that left much of her equipment of the beaches of Dunkirk?
>>30341954
lol m8 I don't play WoT, from the content of your post it would appear you do though
>Absolutely no mention of Tiger unit costs
>Absolutely no mention of the NUMEROUS difficulties involved with getting ALL MODELS of
Tiger to operate without breaking down let alone difficulty of being able to acquire those parts in the middle of nowhere Russia
>Meanwhile the Wehrmacht is getting completely fucking REKT so sourcing those parts is next to impossible on large scales
Get rekt kid, you need to do some more reading or you must be new here
And yes from a logistical and operational standpoint, Panzer 4s are a superior choice
>>30341954
>Slow, heavy, fuel intensive and breakdown-prone Tiger 1
>Good for spearhead assault
Additionally the Panther's frontal armour was actually superior to that of the Tiger in any given practical situation. Sloping is a thing.
And that ignores the fact that German doctrine was designed around faster vehicles and combined arms anyway. Better to have more tanks.
>>30341960
>So you're going to attack Australia, India, Malaysia, New Zealand, fucking Canada etc etc?
Africa, the Middle East, Gibraltar and Malta would suffice. No Battle of Britain gives them only a string of losses and no win. Bringing Spain in also puts them against another monarchy and, as I said, knocks out Portugal (the one remaining ally in Europe). Losing in the med to the surprisingly competent Italian Navy is another upset. Also losing the Suez and Gibraltar rather extends supply lines to the Empire for a country heavily reliant on shipping in food (iirc the UK was down to 6 weeks food at one point). German-influenced nationalist movements were getting uppity and indeed actually rose up in Iraq so it isn't unreasonable to see worries of a repeat in India pushing the UK to redirect troops from a seemingly hopeless Europe.
Remember they'd also lost a good amount of Asian territory to the Japanese who likely would have taken them even if not allied to Germany.
>Britain wasn't going to bow out, dogged resistance was kind of their thing.
Churchill was probably the only big name politician who wanted to fight to the end. Even he can't argue for that alone.
>Having a vast empire and a far superior navy helped too.
The naval situation wasn't as crushing as you might think in 1940. U-boats and the Italians, not to mention worries over the Vichy navy.
>>30341957
>I know nothing about WW2 tactics
Go to sleep Australia and shitposting.
Would you rather spearhead with a Tiger in which the 57mm gun would have difficultly penetrating frontally or some paper thin panzer4s that would get blasted right in the face?
The Germans knew what they were doing using the equipment they had at the time. The Panthers broke down a lot back then, so maybe they wouldn't be a good idea. The Panzer4s were mediums. They needed a heavy that would be the line backer of the force.
Yeah using the light tanks of the early 1940s could still do damage..not shit. But then again only HALF of french tanks were heavier than German tanks. All the Germans needed to do then was just use a better tactic....Now however you're on the Russian front. Different ball game. Different enemy equipment.
And what KV held up an entire German advance? What was this German advance made up of? Tigers? or Panzer4s? Not be inflammatory but I want to know.
>>30341971
>And what allied nation would "pump" out jet aircraft with superior alloys? Russia that's being invaded? Britain that left much of her equipment of the beaches of Dunkirk?
Not him but the UK had the Meteor operational in 1943 and it was in development from about the same time as the me262. It probably would have been pushed into service faster if the Germans had their shit in the air.
>>30341979
Lol, fucking Australia. I didn't notice it was you guys at first but ok.
A tiger costs money and more resources. But then again, as the thread states, what happens when Hitler is no longer at war with a dozen other allied nation and just goes deep into Russia. That means more resources left to make more Tigers and other breakthrough tanks.
But damn Australia I'm taking your b8 here.
>>30341997
>Slow, heavy, fuel intensive and breakdown-prone Tiger 1
>Good for spearhead assault
Yeah professor, that's why they were known as breakthrough tanks. But apparently you know more than the German high command. Let's see you penetrate a thick Russian defensive line with some Panzer 4s getting their turrets blasted off. I really want to hear it.
>>30342032
I ain't buying it
>>30342020
The most they would be able to do though once they lost mainland France, and Africa was just raid German occupied targets. It would be Jet vs Jet. It would cause more fuss than a great hazard though.
Even then, how much more could the British produce than the Germans at full strength?
>>30342032
>replying to Australians
>>30342058
They're kind of fun sometimes to be honest. In a lame thread they're become the life of the party, but in a seriously interesting thread they can be annoying as fuck.
>>30342001
WoT/War Thunder have produced so many fucking tank 'expert' kiddies it's unbelievable.
>Would you rather spearhead with a Tiger in which the 57mm gun would have difficultly penetrating frontally or some paper thin panzer4s that would get blasted right in the face?
What one soldier wants doesn't matter shit. An industrial war isn't won by the quality of individual pieces of equipment nor individual soldiers/tanks. The Germans lost the numbers game in part by focussing on stupid shit like Tigers instead of listening to the few smart men like Speer.
>The Germans knew what they were doing using the equipment they had at the time.
The Panzer IV and other equipment they'd used and trained on sure.
>The Panthers broke down a lot back then, so maybe they wouldn't be a good idea.
Not as much as the Tiger.
>The Panzer4s were mediums. They needed a heavy that would be the line backer of the force.
They quite clearly did not given their performance in France and the early stages of Barbarossa.
>Yeah using the light tanks of the early 1940s could still do damage..not shit.
What is this magical 'damage' of which you speak? War isn't a video game.
>But then again only HALF of french tanks were heavier than German tanks. All the Germans needed to do then was just use a better tactic
Nigger some French tanks were almost invincible to those of the Germans. Hell the French also outnumbered them massively also.
As for 'only half' that's bullshit also. The vast majority of German tanks were Pz Is, IIs and 38ts. Look up any direct tank to tank engagement of the Battle of France (e.g. Hannut) and you'll see the superiority of the French tanks in a straight up fight. Shitty tactics let them down.
>And what KV held up an entire German advance? What was this German advance made up of? Tigers? or Panzer4s?
Almost certainly Panzer IVs. I know at least one flak88 was involved also.
The KV was entirely stationary as, frankly, they were merely (mildly) mobile bunkers.
>>30342047
>The most they would be able to do though once they lost mainland France, and Africa was just raid German occupied targets. It would be Jet vs Jet. It would cause more fuss than a great hazard though.
Assuming we're talking real WW2 you've got Sicily, Italy and various times bombing the Germans.
>Even then, how much more could the British produce than the Germans at full strength?
German industry was shittily run and the UK more or less out-produced them in planes already until Speer took over. Indeed 1944 was the only year the Germans even came close to a properly run industry and also the only year they outproduced the UK alone in planes.
>>30342069
>countering some of his own ideas that he made in the post before my response
What do you think I'm stupid enough to dignify that shit with a response faggot? LOL
Based Australia.
>>30342032
>Yeah professor, that's why they were known as breakthrough tanks.
Which are of limited use in comparison to a combined arms approach or just fucking driving around the blockage in question.
And again the Panther had superior frontal armour, was cheaper, less likely to break down etc.
>But apparently you know more than the German high command
The German high command wasn't actually perfect believe it or not. Lots of conflicting thought and meddling from above along with old-fashioned ways of thinking. They were certainly not tactical geniuses.
>Let's see you penetrate a thick Russian defensive line with some Panzer 4s getting their turrets blasted off.
They didn't seem to have a problem doing that in Barbarossa did they? Later losses are more attributed to a lack of numbers and supplies than anything else which the Tiger contributed to more than helped (200+ of them at Kursk, for example). Also god help you if a Soviet position is near a Swamp, muddy ground, across a river etc because the Tiger won't be helping you then.
>>30342081
I would agree that Germany would need to up their air protection if they were only fighting the Bongs and the Russians. Perhaps they could get away with increasing air in the west due to them having superiority in the Eastern front.
I guess it's all a matter of time and tech. No America intervening, and having the US concentrate on ravaging Japan would really free Hitler up a lot.
If I was Adolf I would just hope for the V2 rocket to be ready in time.
I guess the question is, would Germany hold out better until 1944? Maybe without America and with Britain so neutered.
>>30342100
That's where goals come in. What would have happened at that time? At this alternate time? Wouldn't the Germans have driven the Bongs out of FAgfrica? That would give them a lot of fuel. Then what about the Germans having the material and fuel to take the Russian oil depots as well.
Also Barbarossa caught the Vatniks unprepared. The Germans took the initiative which made them so successful. But now that Russia is aroused from her sleep, they would have to pull out all of the stops.
Fact is you'll need heavy armor. It's a football team, no linebackers will make you easy pickings for offense.
>>30342084
Feel free to point out the contradictory statements faggot.
The French outnumbered the Germans but not to the excessive degree needed to win. Their outdated tactics fucked them over even more. Even superior numbers count for shit all if you can't command them for shit.
Once the Russians actually adopted tactics favourable to numerical superiority they wiped the floor with the Germans in almost every engagement. A handful of Tigers isn't going to help shit assuming they even arrive at the fucking battlefield.
>>30342032
>A tiger costs money and more resources. But then again, as the thread states, what happens when Hitler is no longer at war with a dozen other allied nation and just goes deep into Russia. That means more resources left to make more Tigers and other breakthrough tanks.
Russia alone could outproduce The Germans in tanks, aircraft and firearms and fucking did every year from 1941 onwards (again the numbers were about equal for aircraft in 1944).
German industry was poorly managed. This will never change. Part of this was a focus on strategically silly tanks like the Tiger 1.
>>30342132
Now Australia.....
>>30342101
>I would agree that Germany would need to up their air protection if they were only fighting the Bongs and the Russians. Perhaps they could get away with increasing air in the west due to them having superiority in the Eastern front.
Even with increased air production I'm afraid the Germans aren't winning the air war. The problem with fighting over the UK is any of your pilots shot down are lost and any of theirs can be back in the air the next day. The German designs were also fairly resource-heavy compared to those of the UK (the Hurricane and Mosquito, for example, are mostly fucking wood and there's a quote somewhere of Goering bitching about it). Attrition warfare will always end poorly for the Germans I'm afraid.
>>30342120
>Fact is you'll need heavy armor. It's a football team, no linebackers will make you easy pickings for offense.
Late war you'll likely need heavier tanks yes. Heavy tank =/= Tiger 1, however, and better designs exist that managed to combine the advantages of a heavy tank with the better strategic features of the medium tank AND let you produce them in significant numbers.
Notably the Germans themselves were planning to overhaul their entire production of tanks into a few standardised designs.
>>30342159
Yes but in an alternate scenario the Germans aren't engaging the British in the Battle of Britain or fighting them over the Bong Isles. They're simply defending the German occupied European mainlands.
If push comes to shove, Hitler and his extra resources could just send V1s and V2s to make an example.
In addition with the Brits having to come over German occupied land, any RAF pilot shot down would have been a loss this time.
