>YFW tards talk about shot placement over caliber size
Even if shot placement is more important than caliber, shot placement WITH a superior caliber is still better.
ok
any caliber starting with a 4 is still garbage
>>30316028
Yeah, but find me a .45 ACP that I can fit in a fake wallet.
>>30316106
>Living in a place where you have to hide your gun
>>30316096
Just because you get hurt by the recoil like a bitchboy does not mean they are bad.
>mfw punks with 223 bolt rifle recoil from the shockwaves generated by the nuclear 405 win and 45-70 handloads.
>>30316096
Muh 458 win mag
>>30316028
Not very.
According to http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf, even if the heart is completely destroyed, there's enough oxygen in the brain to continue fighting for 10-15 seconds. Any wound you can cause with a .45 ACP bullet would achieve the same effect as with a 9mm bullet. Penetration, shot placement, and magazine size are what really matters.
You either damage the CNS and achieve instant incapacitation, you poke holes in them until they run out of blood and drop, or they realize being shot fucking hurts and they drop. With any of those, the big three handgun calibers do the same thing.
>>30316447
>Any wound you can cause with a .45 ACP bullet would achieve the same effect as with a 9mm bullet.
Source?
Also
>Not putting a Hornady Critical Defense .357 mag in their head
>>30316489
>source
http://gundata.org/images/fbi-handgun-ballistics.pdf
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#results
>>30316520
Neither of those show anything of the sort
.45 is a MUCH larger bullet transferring a shitton more energy and that's what both pages show.
>>30316837
The second shows that you don't get much more expansion with .45 than with 9mm.
The first says that energy transfer has almost no discernible effect in a target because most organs are elastic and don't get damaged by temporary cavitation.
In choosing a full-size handgun you might want .45 ACP, but the number of rounds you can carry with 9mm in compact handguns means you can poke more holes.
>>30316447
Goddamn it. Now I want to play runescape.
>>30316932
.45 and 9mm are essentially 308 and 223.
Some like it bigger because we can.
>>30316973
you're overestimating how effective .45 is or underestimating how effective 9mm is
maybe both
>>30316932
Isn't .45 superior in penetration of light cover barriers/ deflection through glass?
>>30316961
Don't do it man, realscape will break your heart.
>>30316224
>just because they are museum pieces and compromise calibers for female FBI agents does not mean they are bad.
10mm or bust
>>30316329
>fuddguns
>.45 and 9mm are essentially 308 and 223.
So 9 is 308 having a longer effective range and actually moving at deadly velocities whilst .228 is .45 gramps tottering in on it's walker and barely impacting if it hits.
>Isn't .45 superior in penetration of light cover barriers/ deflection through glass?
.45 will bounce off glass
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i22-nMxnHrE
>>30316985
You're underestimating me, lout.
>>30317010
Yes, but both penetrate.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-buick-o-truth-2-windshields-outsidein/
>>30317020
Opposite fundamentals of force, skagg. (Velocity / Mass)
But guess what, I can have Both, you can't.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/659755/liberty-civil-defense-ammunition-45-acp-p-78-grain-fragmenting-hollow-point-lead-free-box-of-20
>>30317067
see
>>30317020
It's okay gramps, we know you're getting over the hill and you forget things.
>m-mah .45 dun killed more people den dat dere 10MM!
>1911!
>JMB!
>wheres the gerd damn remote, somebody put on the tv archy bunker is coming on!
>>30317067
>.45 acp
>1900 fps
lmao
>>30317020
I have a love/hate relationship with runescape. I've been off and on playing for 15 years. Never played serious. Only 2 99s which were strength and firemaking.
Never had more than 50mil
never bossed just flipped items on the GE while bankstanding and slayer which I almost got 99 in.
I think I've only got 30mil left on my account.
>>30317106
>I have a love/hate relationship with runescape
I loved it and it hates me.
>>30316096
>any caliber starting with a 4 is still garbage
>>30317136
3
>>30317099
Many clock it over 2000.
>>30317167
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fshe09oUQ7o
and apparently it begins to fragment at 3 inches in ballistic gel, meaning it's terrible for self-defense.
>>30317198
Uhh... you mean, it disperses nearly or absolutely 100% of its KE into the target unlike high pressure and smaller calibers?
>>30317251
Yes, but it does so too early. There's a reason the FBI requires a round to penetrate 12 inches in ballistic gel to be considered enough for self-defense.
>>30317198
Kool, don't care because I'll never buy more than one box.
What I will do is apply that type of ammo to legitimate self defence ammo. Read up on the 46gr .45 APC round.
Few pistols can manage such a wide birth of force. I have one...and tools...and, now, a plan.
Am I the only one here that realizes the type of bullet/charge used, seemingly to only me, has a greater effect on effectiveness than caliber to caliber comparisons, thus scrutiny of type is more important yet almost always ignored.
Lastly, I believe Liberty achieved that speed through using lighter bullet material. The .gov only 46gr .45 isn't aluminum like Liberty's. I'm following .gov on this, not Liberty, but we all learned somethin', huh?
>>30317276
Where can I read up on this round?
>>30317198
I think the early fragmentation is not so much of an issue as the bullet veering off before 12 inches. If the core traveled straight it'd probably clear 12 inches, I'd be content using it if that was the case
>>30317413
the fragmentation is just wasted mass that could be a bigger bullet instead
that's why it veers off, it's too light
>>30316973
>.45 and 9mm are essentially 308 and 223.
>>30317294
Shit, not finding it. Thought it was '46gr', but not getting any hits online. Was an article, covered the concept of ultra fast .45 ammo.
It left me with the knowledge that it exists and it's possible but not entirely on the market so fabricating at home is the way to go.
Hrmm...I could have really used that article when actually attempting. Next time I find I'll upload to Kindle for "next time".
I just love the idea of have more "gun" per gun, so my .45 could have a subsonic load, SD/HD load, glass and obstical load, and with ultra lights, high speed/low range & low speed/high(er) range.
>>30317461
The moon to the Earth is Jupiter to the Sun.
.45 to 9mm is 308 to 223. If thats not inherently apparent you're a stupid piece of shit and a subhuman animal, get off my planet. Scum.
>>30317067
.45 aarp barrels do not have the correct twist rate to stabilize super light weight projectiles.
Please check yourself into a retirement home and stop defending a caliber who's only modern use is for suppression.
>>30317516
.45 is to 30-06 what 9mm is to .223
>>30317606
You reaffirmed me without eveing knowing it, faggot.
>>30317622
Even better.
>>30317700
Why would that reaffirm you? Unless you have a MK 23, .45 aarp is a total piece of shit caliber.
>>30317757
I'm thinking about selling my family's pacific theater 1911 to fund a 10mm conversion for my mk 23..... This thread is very relevant to my interests
>>30316028
Shot placement is king
Adequate penetration is queen
Everything else is angels dancing on the head of a pin
9mm penetrates good, .45 penetrates good. If you shoot good with either, use it. There is no objectively superior cartridge among handguns.
>>30317800
.40 has the expansion of .45 and the capacity of 9mm
>>30317800
But you forgot about 10mm.
Objectively superior at penetrating dindus, bears, and any-fucking-thing else that can be penetrated.
>>30317830
Get the fuck out you short and wimpy carrying bitch. You bought whatever gun you own that chambers it because it was on sale, and now you've decided to defend it even though it's about as useful as a dry twig for anything but plinking expensively.
