Post some of your favorite weapons that had interesting concepts but fail to be adopted by any army or police force
How much does that thing weigh? It has to be over 20 pounds at least.
Around 15 pounds
>>30158569
Its looks like an XM 25 with a built in gun
>>30158603
For what i know the XM25 it's a derivative from the OICW original design
KRAUT SPACE MAGIC
>>30158678
it would be really weird carrying 3-4 of those mags
>>30158705
I think the idea was that you could carry one of the long-ass stick mags and several of the transparent loading mags.
>>30158784
I imagine how much it will compromise the user in a firefight
>>30158784
typical german over engineering
007 Nightfire nostalgia.
>>30158837
Casual filter test: Nightfire on consoles or PC?
The only vidya i remember the OICW XM29 appearing is in Metal Gear Acid 2
>>30158857
PS2, never really liked playing console games on a PC. Even though keyboard and mouse is easier, I like the sticks for some reason.
>>30158784
You'd have three of them on the rifle itself, the one that the rifle feeds from and two others in the grooves on either side of that one.
A meme-ish as it sounds, those mags could be carried on your back pretty easily and accessed over the shoulder or from small of the back.
But I think they figured 150 rounds would be enough for most fire fights, giving one plenty of time to recharge the mags after the shooting was done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARAUDER
I'm guessing the US shelved this one until they can find a capacitor and power source powerful enough to run the thing and fit in an armored vehicle.
>>30158569
>>30158578
I don't think it was 20lbs, but it was PRETTY heavy. One of the biggest issues was that it was fucking expensive.
The XM25 was really the only logical conclusion to the XM29 program as it was, a self-loading (airburst) grenade launcher really doesn't need a 5.56mm rifle attached to it.
The Chinese actually developed their own variant of it recently, stripping it down to a single-shot attachment to a typical 5.8mm rifle, with the computerized optic, which is then attached with a wire to a special helmet.
It's a bit wonky looking, but it's MUCH lighter and cheaper than fitting an entire autoloading miniature cannon on your rifle, along with a complex targeting system.
>>30159337
>>30159337
sweet but damn if one of those toggles failed on you
>>30159381
>>30159375
That looks like an actual useful design unlike the XM25 that it's too robbust (and it's nor used either)
>>30159414
>>30158569
They didn't completely abandon that one - what is now XM25 used to be the nade launcher, they took away the rifle and developed the launcher even further alone.
>>30159425
>>30159436
>>30159471
That doesn't look as bad as the other guns but the ergonomics in here confuse me
>>30159415
The XM25 works amazingly, the issue being that the XM29 was an XM8 an XM25 joined together, for little good reason.
The Chinese one strips the airburst gun down to a single-shot bolt-action, massively cutting weight, size and cost, while still being able to provide a regular infantryman with the tremendous capabilities of airburst explosive munitions.
The XM25 as it was, should always had been it's separate weapon, I mean, you wouldn't join a six shot 40mm launcher to a 5.56mm carbine, the bulk and weight would be unreal, better keep it standalone and let it shine, same for a 20mm automatic (later 25mm).
The South Koreans have their own, it's basically the XM29 in concept, a 5.56mm rifle, except the launcher isn't automatic, it's a magazine fed bolt-action, with a bipod, two persons in a squad would be fitted with one of these each, and it allows them to provide a unique kind of cover fire and indirect fire to their squad.
>>30159506
thumb goes in the rear hole, fingers under the bottom
>>30159431
The development process in the XM25 does some progress and then stops for some time and does it all over again
>>30158872
Older ghost recon games too
Someone post the magic bullpup
>>30159556
I was hoping someone would post that monstruosity
>
>>30158872
I believe it was supposed to appear in Half-Life 2, it's console-spawnable if I remember correctly.
Kalashnikovs tommy gun
Pretty much all the Korobov's designs
>>30158603
>>>30158569 (OP)
>Its looks like an XM 25 with a built in gun
The soon to be M25 is derived from the OICW, they scaled the launcher from 20mm to 25mm and ditched the rifle altogether
>>30159415
Chang pls
The Thompson T2
>>30159436
That .44 looks an aweful lot like a SS
SHUTZ STAFFEL NEIN
>>30159556
WHAT IS THIS FUCKING THING
>>30160300
It's a Kerobov, one of the most disgusting firearms ever created
>>30160378
>look mom, I'm being a contrarian on the internet!
be 16 somewhere else
>>30158872
Don't forget Nightfire as the AIMS-20
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cancelled_military_projects
>>30159436
That was just a resin model somebody made, not an actual prototype.
As for interesting concepts that went nowhere, the Colt R80 Monitor "machine rifle." It's a shorter, lighter BAR with a pistol grip and Cutts Compensator, that should have replaced the M1918.
>>30158596
>>30158578
You think it would've been adopted if was around 5 pounds empty?
>>30160615
Fun fact a few of these actually exist today as fully transferable pieces, they all demand up words of $40,000.
>>30160645
Yup, there were only a couple hundred made, but they don't have the collector's appeal of an FG42 or an StG-44. So they're in this sort of odd place where they're far more expensive than say, a MAC-11 or registered HK auto sear pack, but not near Wehraboo pristine FG42 ($250k) prices.
>>30159513
All we need is micro missles to M249
>>30159663
One of the most ridiculously complex submachine guns ever built.
Possibly the most ridiculously complex submachine gun ever, the cost an early model Thompson is nothing compared to the cost of manufacturing that thing.
It only lends credibility to those that theorize that German designers were largely responsible for the AK-47 and Kalashnikov only got credit because the Soviets would refuse to admit the rifle was of German origin. Also Stakhanovism.
>>30160615
The K80 was just a clone of the prototypes FN was working on fitted with a compensator.
Not really super innovative. But I believe they were quite popular with law enforcement agencies even tough they weren't adopted by the US military.
>>30160922
The FBI bought a good few (this was in the era of big-name criminals like Bonnie & Clyde, and all-steel cars that a .38Spl had trouble punching through). And yeah, it's very similar to the FN Model D, which itself was very similar (if not identical to) the Colt R75A, which unlike most BAR variants had a quick-detach barrel.
>>30160967
It seems like a lot of people had similar ideas about how to improve the BAR.
The Swedes started experimenting with quick-detach barrels in 1920-1921, the Americans, and Belgians were doing the same around the same time.
I know the Swedes actually built a few belt fed prototypes with QD barrels in the 30s, but they were never adopted as they just decided to go with an improved bipod, a QD barrel, and get rid of the wooden fore-end. Thus making the weapon less of an automatic rifle and more of a light support weapon.
>>30161067
All of the Swedish BARs had Pistol grips BTW. That feature is surprisingly common on BARs made outside the US.
Sorry for the shitty photo, It was the only one I could find which depicted several models including a belt fed prototype.
>>30158872
Original Ghost Recon.
>>30158837
>>30158857
oh fuck yeah, I had it on gamecube
Anyone else use the sniper scope to zoom in on the girl showering?
>>30159436
Where are the sights?
>>30159407
Everytime, I see this pistol.
It makes me wonder why it wasn't adjusted to fit a rifle stock and given a longer barrel.
The stock it has is shit, that or an SMG.
>>30163184
The guys in that pic look like a German industrial techno group.. Think Hans Gretel but... more operator.
>>30163162
007/10 Where was the chick showering?
>>30160881
What about Fyodorov and Tokarev? I'm not too expert in WW2 stuff but I thought their firearms were pretty well designed. Not to mention the Germans were pretty susceptible to overcomplicated and overengineered designs.
>>30163295
Top floor of some building you reach after going across rooftops I think.
>>30159281
underrated post
>>30163364
Going to look for it tomorrow, single player or multiplayer?
>>30158678
holy shit it fires? i've never seen one in operation before
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyAl9qK3Rlg
This thing.
>>30159281
>worked so well it was immediately classified to the point where the only thing that isn't classified is what it is and that it ever existed
You just know it exists somewhere.
>>30159281
Huh, so that's what the government has been doing with Tesla's designs.
>>30159375
>>30160632
The Koreans also adopted one like this, although the grenade launcher on theirs is a bolt action repeater.
Still kind of heavy at 13 pounds heavy, but I guess that's light enough to be acceptable.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%26T_Daewoo_K11
>>30163442
Not that poster, but I think it's the single player level where you're fighting the Yakuza
>>30163871
The one that starts in the elevator right?
>>30163781
I swear that video is the only material on that thing, period. What happened to it?
>>30159281
>implying it was shelved
>and not put into press blackout due to how promising the results were
>>30158872
Soldier of Fortune 2 as well senpai.
>>30163915
I have no idea. The company working on it, Lacroix, are still around and in the explosives and pyrotechnics business, but the most info I've ever seen on the HIWS (also apparently called the Samourai 76mm) is in Future Weapons by Kevin Dockery.
Same goes for the FN HV40, which was a bolt-action repeating grenade launcher firing 40x53mm HV rounds like the Mark 19, in a man-portable platform. Completely dropped off the radar in the early '00s.
>>30163184
Camera is under the 5.56 barrel.
Laser range finder as well, I believe.
>>30163986
Think the prototypes are locked in some proving ground somewhere?
>>30163781
>>30163986
These are on the 2030 slate, weapons manufacturing is as big a business as big pharma and they control the pace of weapons development to squeeze as much $$ out of governments as possible before moving to the next best thing in terms of military doctrine and the weapons that support that new doctrine.
There are some weapons that are soo revolutionary they are locked away in secret projects and are used probably on other planets and stuff, the fanciest stuff that would change the face of warfare tomorrow is just not worth it to risk leaking out the enemy, better to hold a smaller technological advantage and only bust out the scifi stuff if the situation is looking very dire for American interests.
>>30164228
So basically they're playing with the government because there is no 'need' for these wunderwaffens? That explains so much.
>>30159160
BECAUSE YOURE A FUCKING PLEB
does that explain it?
>>30163162
Pretty sure you're thinking of agent under fire.
>>30164334
That was a fun game.
I was born too late
This adorable fucker.
>>30159636
The Greatest Lost Advancement right there
You like FALs? How about two FALs?
>>30159281
This is what the x37b carries on board.
Source; cousin is an engineer for Boeing
>>30163184
Is this a goddamned Ridley Scott movie
>>30159191
So you would basically carry around a quiver of magazines like a damn bow?
>>30164272
that makes a scary amount of sense actually.
>>30159556
>"I....i don't."
A friend of mine got to hold a replica of one of these at a gun show, those were his exact words.
>>30158569
Does this count?
>>30164825
Pics or didn't happen
>>30159436
Dardick
>>30160769
>".50 cal"
>>30163673
they were ready to go into production and become standard issue when the cold war ended and reunification costs (getting east germany to be a functional part of germany) made the requirement to change to a new rifle unfeasible.
EM-1, the British attempt at developing an intermediate cartridge automatic rifle. Was intended to be chambered in .280 (7mm) which by all accounts would of been a fantastic cartridge. However NATO standards meant the EM1 and the .280 were dropped for the SLR in 7.62 (too big) instead, and then the 5.56 (too small?) and L85 afterward. Shame because only recently has conversation started leaning toward a 6.8mm round as 'best of both worlds' which the Brits were keen on adopting 60 years ago.
>>30166002
60 years is about the right timeline for governments to start getting the idea right
>>30164340
You can still buy matebas ya know
>>30166002
They would have to ramp up production of .280 bigtime if they want to have enough and have it be affordable. .223 is 1/3 the price.
>>30158678
>>30158784
>>30158815
Germans are fucking weird.
>>30158815
Overengineered in reference to what? It's stil the only reliably working assault rifle for caseless ammunition to this day. There are no others that are not overengineered. Only ones that blow up in the user's face or non-assault rifles.
>>30159436
Cameltoe chambered in SS Magnum.
Truly the gun of Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS.
>>30159375
They didnt develop it, they just modified it. its an Israeli item.
http://www.imi-israel.com/home/doc.aspx?mCatID=68481
https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htweap/20130204.aspx
Still. Pretty neat.
>>30165985
>they were ready to go into production and become standard issue when the cold war ended and reunification costs
[citation needed]
As far as I know, they never actually got the G11 out of prototyping, the project being cancelled with reunification, before it could be finished.
>>30159337
Sure, don't bother to say what it is or give any information at all, you useless fuck.
>>30159493
What be dis?
>>30166707
No they were ready for mass production but the choice was either introduce a new standard rifle or rebuild the east. They chose the cheaper option.
>>30166832
>ready for mass production
[citation needed]
>>30166861
Diese letzte Version wurde als G11 K2 bezeichnet. Während dieser Zeit durchlief das G11 mehrere Vergleichstests verschiedener Nationen; die Bundeswehr erprobte 27 Exemplare an verschiedenen Truppenschulen.
They were out of prototyping and already in troop testing where it was deemed acceptable.
>>30159381
>Luger chambered in .45
This makes my weeny wiggle.
>>30166790
furrer "assault" rifle, toggle locked
>>30166753
its a luger rifle, thats pretty much all the info there is on it, been in lots of these types of threads
>>30166753
>>30159556
Slav Space Magic
>>30160769
Doom Guy pls go
>>30163184
French PAPOP. Assault rifle that fire sabot 5.56mm rounds and programmable semi auto 35mm grenade launcher
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAPOP
Why hasn't this been posted yet
>>30159506
>>30167146
I still don't understand how thing works.
>>30167146
How the fuck could that possibly cycle?
>>30167215
>>30167230
I think it has an action similar to the madsen LMG, falling breechblock instead of a bolt, not too sure.
>>30167146
How the shit and why
>>30167329
Bakelite is cheap, bullpups allow for a little more maneuverability. Also, why the fuck not.
>>30167346
How is it engineered tho. Im an engineer and I cant figure it out
>>30167215
It uses a hook to draw rounds out of the magazine, and the bolt is mounted kinda-sorta above or below (I forget exactly where) of the chamber and bore, iirc.
>>30167329
shut the fuck up that thing is the tiredest meme stop samefagging nerd
>>30165985
>>30166707
The G11 had horrible reliability problems and the project got scrapped in favor of conventional rifles that don't burst into flame under full auto fire
>>30167396
>>>30167329 (You)
>shut the fuck up that thing is the tiredest meme stop samefagging nerd
Wow the salt
>>30167396
>The G11 had horrible reliability problems and the project got scrapped in favor of conventional rifles that don't burst into flame under full auto fire
Yes sure thats why the german high command waved it through the troop testing as a succes in 1990.
>>30167432
where are all these G11-wielding companies of german troops huh
>>30167448
Here is the answer.
>>30165985
(Hint its helping poor germans raped by socialists).
>>30163852
ELON MUSK MAKES DESIGNINGS?
>>30167377
You must realize that it is not the spoon that bends, only yourself.
>>30167215
>>30167230
I'm guessing its just an AKM receiver with parts in front of the magazine
I desperately want some company to make a run of semi-auto T25s or T47s
I read somewhere that H&R also sent out a scaled down T47 in .224 for the light rifle trials
>>30168472
That's not even close to how it functions.
>>30167396
They worked out the heat problems actually, but it did initially suffer problems with cookoff.
Problems with the ammo was that it was brittle, susceptible to moisture, and had limited shelf-life, likewise, the terminal ballistics of the rounds were less than impressive, producing icepick wounds, for the gun itself, it was horribly complex, reloading was awkward, and to my knowledge, clearing a dud cartridge was a chore.
It's also questionable what the point was, sure, it's an impressive piece of technology, but does the volume of fire do a soldier anything good, does the added expense and the drawbacks of the weapon make it worth the tradeoff of moving away from conventional rifles like the the G3, G41, HK33 or G36, rifles that are good enough?
>>30167432
Troop trials =/= about to be adopted, it just means they're willing to let the grunts try them as part of testing, MACVSOG tried out a select-fire Gyrojet carbine in Nam' once, that doesn't mean the gun had a snowball's chance in hell of seeing adoption, field trials doesn't ultimately mean anything else but the fact that it's trialed in the field.
>>30168931
>reading comprehension
It PASSED the testing in 1990. It would have been adopted but the reintegration of the east was of a higher priority.
>>30166002
Iirc the em2 was the one that was abiut to be selected for service when this occured. The em1 had reliability issues that were apparently pretty awful.
>>30167146
Thid thing is acrually kinda cool, it utilizes a bolt that moves vertically to save space, and ejects out the front of the rifle (as far as I understand the first of its kind, proba ly inspiring guns like the f2000 and thr rfb.
>>30164376
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvmwfoyIZLQ
Project Babylon was a project with unknown objectives commissioned by the then Iraqi president Saddam Hussein to build a series of "superguns". The design was based on research from the 1960s Project HARP led by the Canadian artillery expert Gerald Bull. There were most likely four different devices in the program.
The project began in 1988; it was halted in 1990 after Gerald Bull was assassinated, and parts of these superguns were seized in transit around Europe. The components that remained in Iraq were destroyed by the United Nations after the 1991 Gulf War.-Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Babylon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_HARP
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hX4XhDQzxGg
>>30169291
>>30164272
>>30164228
I'd say its more of
"We have the capability to produce this advanced weapon, but it's expensive, and giving the current political climate, would likely not fly. Additionally, we fear producing this could cause an arms race with either Russia or China, which is not in our best interest".
Every huge leap in military tech carries that risk. Especially considering our..Shall we say, "close" ties to Israel, and Israel's notoriety for selling US tech to China/Russia?
>>30166039
For $4000 I could, but I won't
>>30166707
>>30166861
The German Procurement Agency declared it ready for introduction into service on March 26th 1990, The German Army Office declared it ready for troop service on April 4th 1990. (see Wolfgang Seel: Die G11 Story, p. 156.)
The German government had planned 30m DM in 1990 for initiating serial production and another 30m DM in 1991 (see answer to question 37 on pp. 8&9: http://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/11/070/1107055.pdf)
On January 24th 1991 a report of the Federal Audit Office recommended to not introduce the rifle yet. Because of reunification and a different security environment at first demand has to be shown. On March 8th 1992 the Procurement Agency approves introduction. (see Wolfgang Seel: Die G11 Story, p. 158)
On July 17th 1992 the CFE treaty went into effect.
On June 25th 1993 The German Defence Ministry confirmed ultimately that the G11 will not be procured.
<- TKB-022PM.
More Russian gun prototypes.
<- tripple barreld bullpup.
>>30170338
What would that be practical for?
would it be good for home defense?
>>30167215
>>30167230
By moving the breechblock vertically instead of longitudinally. Artillery does it, too. Only arty pieces have damping systems which soften the recoil. This rifle doesn't afaik. Thus it should have quite heavy recoil, like a bolt action rifle of the same caliber. Essentially worthless as an assault rifle.
>>30170372
it actually performed quite well in the trials, but was deemed too radical
>>30170259
>On June 25th 1993 The German Defence Ministry confirmed ultimately that the G11 will not be procured.
Probably for the best, it was far from ready to compete with contemporary assault rifles.
>>30170372
>>30159506
Didn't need amazing ergo I think. Polish sub machine gun, ww2 era, designed to be fired from vehicle weapon ports.
>>30167396
The 1989 troop tests showed it has a failure rate of .5 per mille. That's 2000 MRBS! Original requirements (late 60s, early 70s) demanded only 3 per mille (~333 MRBS) or better. These exceptional results are a consequence of having the working mechanism completely encapsulated, solving the cook-off problems with high ignition temperature propellant and achieving proper obturation with the two-piece expanding chamber and the cork-screw firing pin. All these were changes that came up during the long development process which included various tests and major redesigns.
For comparison: the original M4 requirements (late 80s, I believe) demanded 600 MRBS or better. That is for a weapon with a mechanism of a rifle that's already in serial production and battle proven, so it has pretty much all its bugs worked out already. The M4A1 -- an upgrade of a battle tested, serially produced rifle which itself is just a scale-down of a battle tested, serially produced, repeatedly upgraded rifle -- achieved 1691 MRBS in the 2013 tests.
![seX92Eg[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/qF1QRQB.jpg "seX92Eg[1].jpg")
First bullpup to see service, some weird SS anti-tank rifle in a shitty elongated Mauser cartridge
>>30170586
>Polish
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>>30170423
You base this assessment on what exactly?
>>30170426
It doesn't say if single shot accuracy or full auto or quick succession shots. I assume single shot accuracy is meant.
>>30170654
Or Czech. Or Ukrainian. Some country I can't remember. Reverse image search if you want details, on my phone or I'd link something.
>>30158569
>2016
No gyrojet weapons
>>30170586
>Polish
http://guns.wikia.com/wiki/ZB-47
Czech, my bad. Imfdb says it was intended for vehicle crews rather than as a port fired
>>30170807
Also 72 round magazine... breddy gud
>>30164228
>There are some weapons that are soo revolutionary they are locked away in secret projects and are used probably on other planets and stuff,
back to /x/
>>30164804
That actually sounds pretty cool
>>30164744
Twice as deadliererer.
>>30170670
Poor terminal ballistics, while ballistically similar to 5.56x45mm, the 4.7x33mm did not tumble, yaw or fragment in the same way, it was similar to say, shooting M855 loadings out of an M4 or Mk.18, very unimpressive, particularly given that the 4.7x33mm was used out of a full length rifle, comparing the G11 to the M16A2 or AKS-74 at the time it would have much inferior performance.
The ammo was sensitive, though they managed to solve the issues of cook-off from built up heat, it was ultimately susceptible to moisture, and the cartridges were also brittle, meaning transporting them had the possibility of affecting the quality of it (edges chipping and marring, tiny cracks forming, etc), not to talk about the limited shelf-life, all the various loose cartridges out in collections today are all likely expired by now and would give substandard performance and reliability if used.
Really, it was an amazing piece of mechanical engineering, but it was not ready for prime time in my opinion, and had it been adopted, I'm certain it would have been a controversial era full of problems, followed by a new rifle procurement program, I really question the value of caseless ammunition in a military rifle, as the case having to be combustible has inherent problems that makes logistics difficult.
The idea of the weapon was to use technology to increase hit probability, and I think that it's a misguided effort, however impressive the mechanics of it actually were.
>>30167146
i think it can strip a bullet from the mag with a arm which extends further than the bold if the gun is cycling. the bolt drops down (kinda like a vector.) to make room for the arm driving a bullet in the chamber.
never adopted by a real military
roach gendarmerie don't count
>>30164228
>reads the wiki article on project MARAUDER
>loses his fucking mind
>>30164228
>>30170988
Why couldn't or didn't they just use a sabot? It would act as the case as it would protect the propellant from moisture etc, evacuate heat to prevent cook off, hold the primer disk, and allow high velocities while not needing a separate ejection mechanism.
>>30170998
Love these guns, straaight Klingon
Too bad the Soviet Union collapsed, a different evolutionary path
>>30169291
>gerald bull
That guy was some kind of mad fucking scientist. So obsessed with launching a satellite in to orbit via the medium of "tube filled with high explosives" that you accidentally invent some amazing artillery pieces and willingly collude with known dictators in order to gain funding and perform further research. No wonder he was assassinated.
>>30170998
but look how far forward the chamber is, doesn't really make sense in terms of the rifle having the best barrel length to overall length ratio of any rifle
>>30171049
>Why couldn't or didn't they just use a sabot?
Don't know.
Benelli did a 'caseless' SMG prototype a bit like that once, it was basically a 9mm subgun, the ammo was a solid propellant, with a brass tube around it (imagine a 9mm Luger cartridge without a bottom), the gun would fire, and the bullet would propel, along with it, the case would follow for a very short bit, essentially plopping out on the ground in front of you.
The 9mm AUPO round pretty much performed like a regular 9mm Luger, but with a more complex gun, and I guess the question came to "What's the point of this over regular 9mm Luger?"
Smith & Wesson once made a caseless prototype of their M76 subgun, using some manner of caseless ammo, with a large battery pack bolted onto the underside of the receiver, in front of the trigger, again, this didn't go anywhere either.
I don't know if this would have solved anything for the 4.7x33mm, but it would still be a bad performer in terms of wounding, which may perhaps have been solved with a new loading
>>30171222
The chamber is about 1/2" in front of the magazine.
>>30158678
World's deadliest Pez dispenser!
>>30171238
Ah, ive seen an image like that before, took it too literally
>>30171274
Try this one then. From the patent
>>30171309
Thanks
>>30158569
>>30172535
I'd be lying if I said I didn't like those rifles.
>>30172535
>meanwhile, at the KEL-TEC factory...
>>30160420
I absolutely love how the TKB-408 looks.
>>30172820
>>30160769
>>30169291
i thought i was the only one who knew about this
>>30168883
I'm glad we have an engineer from the Tula Design Bureau to help us work it out.
Oh wait.
>>30169301
Needs a flash supressor
>>30168964
fucking ossies ruining EVERYTHING
>>30170320
brethren, observe the path of the charging handle on the far right gun
>>30158857
>>30159160
>>30164294
Fuck you. PC gamers are cunts, liars, and cheaters.
>>30173588
Tfw it's a normal size AK and a tiny man.
You don]t have tovbe polish to be sad this project was abandoned. :-(
>magazine fed 40mm grenade launcher
>magazine fed BULLPUP 40mm grenade launcher
http://remigiuszwilk.pl/plxxi/xxi_pall.html
>>30170889
No.
We future noa.
>>30173497
o lawd
>>30170338
You forget the best part. That's 90 rounds of 7.62x39 fed from a giant block banana magazine.
90
ROUNDS
THREE BARRELS
IMAGINE THE WEIGHT OF THE RIFLE
>>30158569
>>30164334
Can I go off topic for a second and gush about how awesome agent under fire was?
>>30175591
What went wrong?
>>30170988
Any source for your claims regarding terminal ballistics?
As for reliability see: >>30170614
>>30175622
Flechettes really suck out of a gunbarrel.
In completely still wind, a clean hit would give you phenomenal wounding, keyword being wind, a gentle breeze would completely fuck up your trajectory, making you miss or if you hit, cause minimal wounding.
Flechettes are best suited for explosives.
>>30175654
>The projectile is 4.93 mm in diameter with a case length of 33 mm, the US case length measurement is 34 mm since for the ACR trials the chamber length, not the actual case length was used. The 4.73 mm round is half the weight and 40% the size by volume of the 5.56×45mm NATO round. The round was designed to the same ballistics requirement as the 5.56×45mm NATO round as outlined in Evaluation Procedures for Future NATO Weapons Systems (Document 14). However, the 4.73mm is much less likely to tumble when hitting or penetrating a soft target, and thus not as lethal. The effect on soft targets is in accordance with international conventions. Even at short ranges the round does not fragment in the soft target medium.[19] This was confirmed in tests with gelatine.[13](See terminal ballistics)
http://stevespages.com/pdf/hk_g11.pdf
http://dip21.bundestag.de/dip21/btd/11/070/1107055.pdf
>>30175655
Did crossbows have the same problem?
>>30171049
A sabot case, if done right, may have the potential to reduce the heat of the barrel, which is mostly the result of friction, but not the heat of the chamber, as it's a result of the heat of high pressure gas. If you use the sabot as the case you still need to vent the gases directly into the chamber to propel the projectile, just like with caseless ammo and unlike a convenional round which keeps its gases inside the case which somehwat shields the chamber from the heat. So with a sabot case you'd have the same heat and obturation problems of caseless ammo.
Granted, these were solved in the G11, but it's also questionable if a sabot case could achieve the same accuracy as a non-sabot round. In the ACR tests the flechette weapons all had far worse hit probability than the other candidates. Although I don't know whether that's inherent to the flechettes themselves or a consequence that flechettes require sabots.
And an ejection mechanism is required in any case, as the weapon must somehow be able to spit out duds. In the G11 the new round would push out the old round and eject it downward. See pic related. As for protection against the environment, yes, that would possibly be an advantage over caseless. But keep in mind that rectengular caseless ammo wouldn't even experience the same environmental stress as conventional cylindrical ammo. Cylindrical ammo is being loaded one at a time, which necessitates having the ammo out in the open. Rectangular ammo can be easily loaded in bulk, like shown here: >>30158678 and wouldn't need to be out in the open ever.
>>30175655
>>30175591
The flechettes were too light, hence the wind problems. What really killed the entire program was what we're all used to these days.
>This stuff is better than the stuff we currently use.
>How much better?
>Oh, about 10%.
>And how much is it gonna cost to replace our entire inventory of weapons and ammunition.
>Only a hundred million or so.
>That costs too much for only 10%.
>Shut it down.
>>30175527
No you can't. Get back to work anon we're trying to internet here.
>>30175729
I forgot to say there were also stories about the grunts doing the testing on all the rifles complaining about getting hit by the discarding sabots when somebody was firing from a position behind them.
>>30166753
It's a Pederson, dipshit.
>>30173774
t. Jew
>>30175688
That's some weasel wording right there. "Less likely" compared to what? First, all spitzer bullets tumble. This is a simple consequence of them being aerodynamically unstable, i.e. their center of gravity is aft of their aerodynamic centre. In air the spin is enough to stabilize the bullet against the forces that try to overturn it. In tissue it isn't. So it tumbles. The only question is after what distance inside tissue does the bullet start to tumble. This is largely a function of yaw at impact. The more yaw the sooner it tumbles.
I consider it highly unlikely that the G11 is any worse in this department than the 5.56x45mm. Knudsen et al have measured the initial yaw of common military rifle bullets, see pic related. As you can see the German G3 round has consistently high minimal values while avoiding extreme maximum values. This aids in achieving reliable tumbling after short travel distances in tissue without sacrificing accuracy. In contrast the AK-47 has the least yaw and consequently begins to tumble only very late. (see Fackler 1989: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Fackler_Articles/wounding_patterns_military_rifles.pdf). The M16 rounds vary greatly. They have both great maxima and small minima. This explains the fleet yaw problems which were the cause for widely varying reports of terminal effects and prompted the development of the M855A1 round which has more consistent yaw. (see "Small Caliber Lethality: 5.56mm Performance in Close Quarters Battle": http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a519801.pdf)
>>30175688
Second, fragmenting: This is a question of how thin the jacket of the bullet is. See Facklers comparison between the US and West German 7.62x51mm round (http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Fackler_Articles/wounding_patterns_military_rifles.pdf). The West German round has a thinner jacket and consequently breaks apart at the cannelure when is starts to tumble (which it also does sooner than the American bullet) for a much greater effect in terminal ballistics. The Germans are a couple of years ahead in ballistics and small arms design. The answer in the Bundestag questionnaire that you linked says the G11 ammo is consistent with international law THE SAME AS the 7.62mm Bundeswehr round, which both tumbles early and fragments.
In all likelihood the myth of not tumbling and fragmenting came up when Western hippies (which were often Soviet financed or useful idiots of Soviet financed agents of influence) criticized the early reports of the wound ballistics effect of the M16 in Vietnam, where the fragmenting caused greater wounds than the non-fragmenting US 7.62 ammo and claimed it wasn't in accordance with international law. This may have prompted weasel worded PR statements like the ones you referenced. But it's wrong to interpret it as less terminal ballistic performance. It's just that America was behind in wound ballistics compared to Germany which had fragmenting bullets already in their 7.62mm ammo and naturally would have copied its properties to the 4.73mm round as they confirmed in the answer to the Parliament questionnaire with a wording clever enough to calm the hippies.
>>30176079
>In contrast the AK-47 has the least yaw and consequently begins to tumble only very late
What about the AK-74 though
>>30176163
It's in the pic. Just look.
>>30176163
It varies greatly. It has both small minima and large maxima. This would lead to inconsistent tumbling like the M855 round. Terminal effect would thus depend on the individual shot and vary.
>>30171017
When things vanish they ain't truly gone gan
>>30168931
They shouldn't have made the ridiculous burst fire recoil stuff
>>30176488
>What is Project SALVO
That was the main feature of the gun and increased hit probability per trigger squeeze by up to 100%.
>>30176539
I thought caseless telescoped volume of fire was the main feature.
>>30176600
Caseless ammo brought the weight savings to allow shooting more rounds per trigger squeeze required for increasing hit probability together with the recoil delaying mechanism.
>>30159556
S O V I E T
S P A C E
M A G I C
>>30176539
It's questionable how useful that actually is.
>>30160645
>up words
>>30176734
Gee, maybe that's why the project went nowhere and failed.
>>30170998
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/TKB-022PM
>The weapons were gas operated with annular gas piston located around the barrel and a vertically moving bolt, which made it possible to minimise the length of the receiver group. A U-shaped rammer/extractor was used to chamber and extract the cartridge by pushing it into the chamber where after discharge was pulled back from the chamber and again, upon feeding the new cartridge, pushed forward and slightly up into an ejection tube above the barrel where finally exiting above the muzzle. Due to this ejection mechanism it was possible to fire from both right and left arm positions.
Seems pretty advanced, would be cool if it wasn't fuck ugly
>>30176734
It's questionable how usefull hitting the target is? I thought that was the very point of a gun. Questionable in what way? Ethically?
>>30176757
That's my point.
>>30176770
You can hit your target more, but what's really the problem with shooting an enemy with a regular rifle?
It's arguably better, but how much better?
>>30176817
The problem when shooting an enemy is hitting him, as evidenced by the fact that soldiers need ~500 rounds per kill in combat despite the same soldiers qualifying on the shooting range by hitting at least 23 out of 40 targets with 40 rounds. It is also evidenced by the fact that examination of combat victims in WWII showed that the distribution of bullet wounds over a victim's body is just as random as that of fragmentation weapons like artillery or mortars. In other words, marksmanship skills are irrelevant in combat as is the used caliber. There's a correlation between the number of rounds fired and combat outcome but no other aspect of small arms showed any causal relationship to combat outcome. These insights were what led to the SCHV concept in the first place. And the G11 was the next step as it increased hit probability by up to 100% over contemporary SCHV weapons.
>>30172535
detroitstreetcorner.jpeg
>>30161122
Is..is that a...Belt fed Bar?
