Hunters of /k/, I am looking at moving up from a .223 to a larger bullet. Primarily, this would be for shooting southern whitetail and wild hogs within 300 yards. I have two options moving forward in semi-autos:
1. Any AR-15 wildcat caliber, something like 6.5x39, 6.8 SPC, or .300 BLK
2. Semi-auto in .308
It appears that a good semi-auto in .308 is going to run around $2500, plus another $500-800 for a good mid-powered optic. A new upper in any of the AR-15 wildcats is closer to $1000, at most.
In your experience, does the wider wound channel and velocity of the .308 warrant the extra $1500?
>>30035816
For what your shooting, no
Try .264 lbc/6.5 grendel if you don't reload
6x6.8 if you do
>>30035816
IMO no.
>>30035816
>moving up from .223
>for durr
>semiauto
.223 is fine for deer. Buy better glass.
You can get an entry level AR-10 for $900.
>>30035816
6.5 Grendel
Thank me later.
>>30035816
Grendel
>>30035964
Had a cousin lose a buck in the brush because the animal didn't bleed out fast enough. He swears he got him in the lung, but we'll never know.
I'd rather spend the money on a wider wound channel than trek across most of south Texas looking for a non-existent blood trail.
>>30036042
Christ, we have the same tile and bath fixtures. Any recommendations for a good upper manufacturer in 6.5 with a 20" barrel? Having some trouble finding one.
DPMS G2 AR-10 ('LR308' if you prefer). $1k-$1.3k
There you go, a semi auto 308 that's probably the best for the price. They cycle great and are about the same weight as an AR-15; lots better than all the DPMS G1 models out there. You can also get a good enough scope for hog/durr hunting for $300 including mount, since you'll be shooting under 300 yards, you don't need a crazy pricey scope.
>>30036345
what parts do an ar15 and ar10 share? trigger groups? stocks? buffers? hand guards?
>he thinks any of those calibers mentioned for AR are wildcat
Just get the .308 with the heaviest grain bullet with the hottest load possible.
>>30035816
Why hunt with a semi-auto?
>>30037317
i think the real question is, why not?
>>30035964
>.223 is fine for deer.
If you're within 20 yards and the deer weighs under 200 then yeah yeah, you can get away with it. Otherwise you're gonna have a bad time.
OP - go .270 or .308. Don't get a semi, go with a bolt action. They're more accurate, easier to maintain, and can be found for dirt.
>>30035816
Look at a FNAR/SX-AR. They just magazine fed adaptations of the BAR (not the automatic rifle, the Durr gun). I recommend the 20" of either, but you are a big boy and can make up your own mind.
>>30037349
less accuracy? less durable? more expensive?
>>30037615
The mule deer here in Texas are like dogs. .223 is perfectly adequate.
.223 is fine. I've killed many deer with it. Only one I had trouble was one I got a gut shot on because I'm retarded. I just followed the broken branches till I found it. Hollow points have always left an adequate blood trail for me.
>>30037615
I've dropped large whitetail bucks @ 150+ yards with .223
I know it sounds fuddish, but if you're still hunting in open areas it really can come down to shot placement and quality glass. Granted I still opt for a 30-30 for brush hunting and .270 and .308 for mid and long range shots, respectively.
>>30038232
What loading?
>>30036275
>Had a cousin lose a buck in the brush because the animal didn't bleed out fast enough.
You don't need a larger rifle; you need a dog to track your kills.
Since there are reloaderfags itt what do yall think of a 110 grain .30-06 with 6 grains of pistol powder held down with cotton ball near the flash hole. Yall have any ideas for shotshell type for the same cartridge?
Looking to do spartan living.
>>30035816
>It appears that a good semi-auto in .308 is going to run around $2500
Dude what
>>30038347
>You don't need
308 tip smasher
>>30038181
>less accuracy
Isn't that just fuddlore? The other points seem valid but the accuracy claim seems dubious.
>>30038425
depends on the gun
AR is about the only gun that'll come close to bolt gun accuracy
>>30038277
55gr hollow points from whatever is in stock at Academy. Although this is brush hunting so furthest shot I've probably ever made was ~100yds. So I don't really have any say in it's performance past that range.
>>30038425
The "more accuracy" comes from the bolt being cheaper than a comparable semi-auto. You can then spend an equal amount of money on a bolt action and get a better quality, more accurate rifle for the price than with a semi-auto.
>>30037314
I looked up the actual definition, and you're right. So what the hell do you call a large group of calibers all designed around a particular rifle that don't even share a common parent case?
Another grendel-fag reporting in. 123 grain sst at 2200 FPS or something like that works just fine.
>>30035816
>It appears that a good semi-auto in .308 is going to run around $2500.
$2500?
>>30038468
Dude I was just Joshin but if you say so I'd have to go with platform versatility and marketing.
AR was just the most popular so they just went with it.
>Tfw bought handirifle in wildcat 7mm-08 just cuz I felt I didn't have enough data
>don't know what to do with it now.
It's just a deer. Save that $2,000 and buy a good quality bolt gun in a good caliber, top it off with a good quality scope, and spend the rest of your saved money gettin gud
>steyr
>tikka
>howa
>.243
>.270
>.308
>.30-06 if you're feeling giddy
>Nikon
>Leupold
>zeiss if you feel like a fancy bitch
look who just saved $500+ on their gun. Look who also just got a whole different gun. Thank me later.
>>30038487
about 2500 actually
>>30038375
Just don't. Get a traditional power powder and load normally or get reduced volume brass.
As for the shotgun shells, use the brass ones and load them by hand. They last effectively forever at low pressures and don't have a crimp to get ruined when you try loading them with half powder and half shot.
>>30038512
also think of
>.300WM
>.300RUM
>>30035816
If money is no object, get one in 6mm AR/BR.
If money is slightly an object, get 6.5mm grendel.
>>30038566
It's a damn deer, but I do have to agree. I have a 7mm rem mag that I use for out of state hunting.
>>30038512
This. You can get a Tikka with a 1MOA factory warranty and a thousand rounds of .308 for less than a 2-3MOA semi auto.
>>30035816
american small arms are being held back by the ARcuckteen fanboys. they are gimping calibers to fit inside the ar magwell with 6.5, 6.8 and .300cuckout
They will shell out $700+ for a barrel, bolt and some gimmicky shit that's being pandered for that month for their special snowflake caliber but if they have to replace their $150 lower then fuck you muh ar15 magwell
6.5 is a great round (needs a rifle'ish length barrel for maximum performance tho), sadly what few boxes of ammo you find are overpriced as fuck, we've got some cheap slavshit 6.5 but one executive order and that's gone and it's still not very widespread besides ordering from the Internet
6.8 is meh tier, still better than 5.56 but not enough to justify the price. It's mainly for close to medium range out of a sbr and a .270 gimped to fit inside a ar magwell
.300 is only if you want a sbr with a silencer, sadly it's performance isn't much better than a .45acp when using subsonic ammo. Just stick to 7.62x39 unless you are suppressing or you like wasting money for a round with 7.62x39 ballistics for normal loads or dot fuddy phive aye sea pea ballistics for subsonic loads
For large calibers you just need to go all out for a .308/7.62nato because you will be paying the same/more for speshul snowflake rounds like 6.5/6.8/.300. You will have way more ammo options with specific projectiles and it's a round you will always find without having to rely on ordering strictly online, sadly no it won't fit inside a ar15 magwell but there is this new rifle called the ar10 it works with. The army dug up stoners zombie corpse and made him design a new weapon "platform" to help win the war on terror and chambered it in real fucking nato.
If cost is a issue then you can find a g3 knockoff or buy a psa ar10 I guess, to lazy to google fal prices but you can find semi auto .308 rifles for less than $2500 m8
>>30038672
PTR91s and Veprs in .308 are like $850.
>>30036275
Remain calm... He's in the house.
>>30038490
Fo real
1200$ total scope and all
>>30038860
Fug
>>30038860
Forgot pic
>>30038468
Family? System?
>>30038548
Honestly for the reduced load .30-06 I'm looking for a small game varmint load going at 1100 fps. By traditional powder do you mean blackpowder or modern rifle powder
I remember reading winchester made a factory load .30 wcf "short range" with those specs but Idk about the powder type.
I also read kids used to make their own during the great depression by punch lead and taking .22lr misfires so that's why I ask about the pistol powder.
Shot a deer once with 5.56. It ran for almost a mile. Then over 100 foot cliff, snapping it's neck. Couldn't recover the deer.
Now I hunt with my garand.
>>30038887
Unreal how shit that scope setup is. Jesus fuck that cheekweld.
>>30038672
>special snowflake
>.300
>>30035816
Blow those fuckers with a .50cal
>>30035816
Ruger Precision Rifle in either .243 or 6.5 Creed.
Hilarious part is you can stick 20 or 25-round PMAGs in them and never reload.
68gr hornady hpbt or 62gr barnes tsx from a 16" .223 AR twisted 1-8 will go through a hog or white tail shoulder at 300m no problem. i'd stick a fixed 6x swfa on there as well. /k/ pimps the 10x+ models but 6x is brighter & better suited for field use.
as far as the alt cartridges, the 6.8 and 6.5 are good. i favor the 6.5g personally, the hornady amax is a proven killer at moderate velocities. the .300 blk has no advantage over .223 for your applications, if anything it's worse.
>>30038425
>>30038444
>>30038466
it's not fudlore.
it's impossible to have a semi uto be as accurate as a bolt gun. for bassically the same reason hat once fired cartridge will end up being more accurate than a one size fit all new round.
the reason is chamber pressures. something as simple as a cartridge expanding can have an effect of projectile performance. which is why match shooters use once fired brass in their handloads instead of new. it's why gp-11 ammo doesn't fit in some older swiss rifles in the same caliber. (other than you shouldn't be using it anyway). consistent repeatable chamber pressures are vital. direct blowback systems are the most affected, but gas systems are far from perfect. in a gas system the bullet has almost left the barrel before the bolt begins to recoil. in a direct system the same energy the bullet should be using is ging into the bolt. not only that but it is removing the cartridge and allowing gases to escape out the ass end, into the chamber.
think of the hole in a cannon. sure they could have drilled it any size and it would work. but there are so many factors involved in goood ballistic performance that even the hole size really mattered alot. (rate of gas expansion, total pressure, barrel length. even twist rate is based on "expected" acceleration of "expected" round size, at "expected" speed. so in summation there is no way (in terms of physics) that any semiauto rifle can be as accurate as a {insert quality disclaimer here} bolt action.
all that being said. for typical hunting purposes. it won't matter. the extra play you get on a quality semi-auto at even 400 yards will be negligible on a deer sized target. if you can hit an 8 inch pie plate you will be able to hunt ethically and at far distances there will be more effects from other factors. so unless you are planning on shooting deer at seven it doesn't matter what gun you get really. long range shooting skills matter much more in that case.
>>30035816
serioously, save your money and buy a cheap hunting bolt rifle.
remington 783 in 7mm rem mag.
better bc than 308. ammo is relativly cheap and plentiful (they make 400 round boxes for like 250 bucks). gun will be way more accurate than some 308 BR. gun only costs 300 bucks.
i hunted with one last year. (it was a .270) and i can't say the gun cycles smoothly and rapidly, but for hunting purposes you really need one shot accuracy and power anyway. plus 7mm rem mag gives you the versatility of long range shooting with significantly more impact energy.
and before some sperglord goes "durr, .wsm has a flatter trajectory" i recommend 7mm rem mag because it has high performance at much lower price than other ammo with only slightly better performance.
I think the another question here is why AR-10 variants are so much more proprietary and higher in cost than an AR-15.
It's a larger gun, so there should be higher manufacter costs, but anything over 200% seems excessive.
And while there is no military standard, you would think the high demand for accessories and parts on any AR pattern would already have resulted in an industry wide standard as well.
>>30040787
>2016
>Belted magnum
>>30041843
Most of the new AR-10 parts are all adhering to the DPMS standard now. As for cost, it's mostly a matter of simple supply and demand.
>>30041891
Which one though? The old LR-308 that DPMS abandoned, or the new G2?
>>30041883
2/10
here's your (you).
>>30039300
Git gud
>>30036275
The shitposting is coming from INSIDE the house!
>>30042474
Belted magnums a shit. Enjoy your casehead separation.
>>30038200
White tail are small compared to the corn fed states but still have very large racks.
Mule deer in Texas are very rare and limited to a few areas in West Texas. They are not the size of dogs. Shooting them with .223 would be a misinformed choice at best. .270 would be a minimum for Muleys.
>>30038487
Did you drop a bucket of paint on your AR?
At least the magazine wasn't in and still looks normal.
>>30039237
I meant traditional smokeless powder, as opposed to more reactive pistol powders.
Are you limited to one rifle? If you absolutely need a reduced 30-06 varmit load, I recommend using a powder designed or at least suitable for this, like H4895. There may be better powders now.
Another option is to use corn meal and cut the powder with it. I recommend something like IMR 3031 and not using more than a third filler, though I have been told my some old timers that they would go up to half during the Depression. Those men are dead now, so I can't exactly ask for more details. Also, it will burn dirty.
>>30042902
> .270 a minimum
Minimum as in diameter, as in velocity, or as in KE?
>>30038375
>>30038548
>>30039237
>>30042932
For long term brass conservation don't forget to anneal the brass periodically.
>>30040726
>ethically
my nigga
>>30043299
Probably as in 270 Winchester, the cartridge.
>>30044492
For low pressure loads, I wouldn't start annealing until the the mouth of the case was getting rough, but I am also lazy.
Oh, and neck size the brass. You don't need full length sizing, and neck sizing will help squeeze a few more loadings out of the case.
>>30044586
Yes, I gathered that. I was asking for clarification on why .270 is the minimum cartridge he would use.
If it's a question of diameter, then things like 6.5x55, 6.5 CM, or .260 Rem would not produce fast enough bleed out due to their smaller wound channel. 7mm-08 would be acceptable though.
If it's a question of velocity, than it's likely an issue of not enough penetration for slower, similar sized bullets.
>Not hunting with glorious based .300 win mag
>>30045121
He probably meant it as a generalization. 270 Win is a full-length cartridge with a 30-06 parent case and is capable of launching a 130gr bullet at 3200fps and with around 3000ft/lbs of kinetic energy.
This is more than most standard short action cartridges, like 243Win or 7mm-08 Remington, both of which share a 308Win parent case and have somewhat similar powder capacity.
Obviously, short magnums sort of don't follow this mold, which is most of the reason why they exist. The other being a slight increase in powder efficiency, particularly from shorter barrels.
Personally, my preferred deer cartridge is 25-06 Rem, though it is sort of small for the deer up here, where large buck can break 250 pounds. I shoot for the base of the skull. A chest shot won't do much.
>>30035816
OP, where do you live?
White tail in the norther areas (Canada, northern us) can weight up to 200 lbs.
Texas white tail deer are small...arouns 100 - 150 lbs.
Don't use a .223. Kill your game cleanly and efficiently, use at least a .243. Bolt actions in 308 are cheap (ruger american comes to mind)
>>30037615
>>30038271
good to see some .270 love- its a highly underrated caliber. capable of dropping elk at distance. elk are big.
>>30046918
Technically it can if you hold your mouth right and all that other shit.
.300 Win Mag has a much higher probability
>>30035964
Some places dont let you hunt big game with anything smaller than .23
>>30042932
That's actually what I'm looking for. Poor college student and I don't want to pay extra for all my guns to the campus PD armory.
I do have a 7mm-08 that would be more reasonable but I want to be able to take anything with one gun.
I'm glad a biggin took the time to answer my stupid questions it'll go along way
>>30043299
obviously kinetic energy.
>>30042856
oh no. you mean some day maybe a round could fall apart exiting the chamber? well better throw them all in the garbage.
it's literally never happened to me once, not with surplus, not with new, not with handloads. after thousands of rounds, it's never happened once.
why don't you go to your range and chew everyone's ear off about how shitty 95% of all the rifles in the world are. maybe you'll be so annoying the feds will consider it an act of terrorism and you'll have all your stupid fucking guns melted down into stainless steel enema tubes. or maybe we'd all get lucky and someone will just blow your fucking head off.
enjoy your crushed cases. fucking memelord.
>>30035816
bolt action 30.06 works fine for me
>>30047544
If you are willing to reload, I strongly recommend 270Win or my pet cartridge 25-06. Both are very versatile and and can be pushed to lighter weight bullets more easily than 30-06.
Also, you have to be really desperate to want to cut powder. It negatively affects the burn, which reduces velocities more than just the linear relationship to the amount of powder, particularly in shorter barrels. With the 26" or so barrels that were common 80 years ago and low expectations, it wasn't that big of deal. You also don't save a massive amount of money.
>>30039557
I've shot an antelope with a 50 BMG it didn't do anything like that!
