‘Underwater Great Wall’: Chinese firm proposes building network of submarine detectors to boost nation’s defence
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/1947212/underwater-great-wall-chinese-firm-proposes-building
>The “Underwater Great Wall” is the construction of a network of ship and subsurface sensors that could significantly erode the undersea warfare advantage held by US and Russian submarines and contribute greatly to future Chinese ability to control the South China Sea, the report said.
>The corporation is proposing an improved Chinese version of the Sound Surveillance System that for a time gave the US a significant advantage in countering Soviet submarines during the cold war, the article said.
How feasible is this? Is Sound Surveillance still as effective as it was in the Cold War? What would the US/Russian response be?
Looks like tapping missions are back on the menu boys
>>30033824
>What would the US/Russian response be?
Probably turn their systems back on.
Must be really annoying for the Chinese, they can't build anything remotely barrier-related without it being dubbed "the Great *fill in blank* Wall of China".
>>30035033
GREAT WALL OF SAND DUUURRRR
was actually coined by the US Navy.
>>30033824
We'd probably set up MitM devices and feed them false data while our Virginia class SSNs did donuts around their meme islands.
>>30035033
That's hilarious, really
>How feasible is this? Is Sound Surveillance still as effective as it was in the Cold War?
Perfectly feasible. Not much protection from attack but it'll cut down intelligence/counter intelligence
>>30035110
American submarines have always been decades ahead of Soviet submarines.
A Seawolf or a Virginia could probably do donuts in front of Chinese ports and never be heard.
drone submarines. That are built to make a lot of noise and mount on Virginia class subs.
Drones launch and fill the chink microphones full of noise.
>>30035167
or they could just take out the uss jimmy carter out to it and just tap it so we can feed it random shitty information and tie thousands of dildos along the line to annoy the chinks
>>30035190
The USS Ohio carries enough VLS tubes to wipe out the bases without surface assets as well.
>>30033824
>How feaseble?
Quite
>Is Sound Surveillance still as effective as it was in the Cold War?
To an extent. Even with better sensors and signal processing new American subs are harder to detect then ever.
> What would the US/Russian response be?
Tapping it, as people have noted.
In the event of annoyance at it, they'd simply destroy it. The system is dependent on Distributed Acoustic Sensors that are kilometer long fiber-optic hydrophones. They are a very interesting technology, but also very easy to break. They are good for watching for people spying in your back yard, but in the event of attack the only thing they'd report is that they'd been destroyed.
>>30033824
Well, the US has already built one around them, so...
MAKE CHINA GREAT AGAIN
it's feasible, probably wouldn't be terribly effective. It'd run into the problems the US had in the North Atlantic with huge amounts of commercial traffic masking sub noise, on a massive scale and with quieter subs.
>>30037197
10 FATHOMS DEEPER
>>30035167
>Fleets of drone subs running up and down the chink SOSUS shrieking infinite loops of "Mmmbop" at 800dB, killing all sea life in the area, blanking out the chink line and forcing nearby chink subs to run blind
>>30033824
>America has extensive experience in how SOSUS work, having ran one through most of the Cold War,
>Knows the ins, outs, and vulnerabilities of such a system
>Also possess the quietest subs in the word and has a ton of 'em
>Future .50 centers will act like this system, if it even ever comes on line, will automatically sink any sub before it passes Guam
>>30035110
Virginia tried to shadow an enhanced Kilo that was on trials but got chased out by a Steregushchy corvette instead.
Much laughs were kekd.
I'm actually kind of envious of a government that has so much fucking money sitting around that they can afford stupid ridiculous shit like this.
>>30035190
>USS Jimmy Carter
>dunno what that is, look it up
>Seawolf-class
>hey that sounds pretty cool
>ships in class
>Seawolf, Connecticut, Jimmy Carter
That's... an interesting naming convention
>>30038142
Actually? The Chinese have some serious economic issues on the horizon. They're running serious damcon internally to try and keep things hush hush.
>>30037278
I like you
>>30033824
If the US could do it across the Atlantic however many decades ago, the Chinese can very probably do it in their backyard today. Will it be foolproof? Hell no, but it will be a noticeable or significant threat and require things like spamming active decoys to counter.
>>30038183
The Connecticut was the only "production" Seawolf. The Seawolf was the prototype and the Jimmy Carter was a spec ops variant.
>>30038882
>spamming
>Sonic decoys all over the DVD looping the spam Viking song for the next decade
>>30035033
Its funny, because the great wall failed.
Every time i hear it i just internally kek heartily.
I think it would be fun to just toss in some waterproof speakers to allow audio shitposting to fuck with the sensors. Think about it one lucky guy will be given the power to drive some poor Chinese bastard too suicide after being forced to listen to it all.
>>30033824
It's probably a good idea for them since the ASW capabilities of their own submarines are notoriously awful.
>>30033830
Nice post
>>30035149
ours never had pools though
>>30035110
>MitM devices
Explain
>>30038925
>I will never DJ some SOSUS jammer speakers with serbian war music or just plain anoting shit
Why live?
>>30039261
intercepting a communication and changing it to suit your needs before sending it on to the intended recipient.
>>30033824
>‘Underwater Great Wall’: Chinese firm proposes building network of submarine detectors to boost nation’s defence
Jesus Christ. Has it really taken .50 cent this long to discover SOSUS?
USN planners have probably spent their whole career preparing for China's inevitable SOSUS network, and retired asking themselves "fucking when?"
> 2016
> Not already having SOSUS
What the fuck, China?
>>30038121
Dont know why the thought they are quite. Any nuclear sub has to have a minimum amount of noise.
Deisel electric can go absolutely silent
>>30038121
Fuckers probably weren't cleaning enough after watch. Yeah, that's it.
>>30039265
>daily playlist requires CO approval
>"MC2, what the fuck is 'Cakes Da Killa?'"
>"I believe the genre is commonly referred to as 'Fag-Core,' sir."
>>30036233
>They are a very interesting technology, but also very easy to break. They are good for watching for people spying in your back yard, but in the event of attack the only thing they'd report is that they'd been destroyed.
It is crucial part of bastion SSBN strategy.
>>30033824
Gooks can't develop anything new on their own. ANYTHING. EVER.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SOSUS
>What would the US/Russian response be?
Laugh their asses off watching gooks trying to be relevant.
>>30040858
That's a cultural thing, not a biological thing. They invented and explored a bunch during the medieval period, but the emperors turned inward and that tradition died in the 1500s.
>>30040996
The Ming Dynasty was still inventing shit you meme historian. China did pretty much up until in the 1700's when it truly slowed down.
Also Zheng He's voyage was more grand tour and less Christopher Colombus. Who fucking carries a massive fleet with a floating palace for exploration? His mission was to impress coastal people from Southeast Asia to Arabia into trading with China. The only exploratory part of his whole trip was "Oh Admiral, some of our ships fuck off after reaching Oman. Can you please, if you can, look for where the hell they are going? Thanks." And for evidence, he took a Giraffe just to say to the Emperor "lel, Africa apparently. Lands filled with black people."
Pic related, some madman in the late Ming Dynasty came up with the idea of a musket with a detachable barrel. The logic being that a pair of soldiers can carry the gun plus a case of preloaded barrels, and the gunner can fire rapidly by just inserting a fresh barrel into the stock assembly. They called it the "Ten Thousand Victories" Gun.
This however lost to a breech loading large caliber musket instead.
>>30040590
I think there's a huge cultural problem with the forward half of the submarine force.
As in forward divisions often end up with the cob up their asses about all kinds of random crap when they actually need to be doing training and having proper qualification standards so they don't crash the fucking boat.
>>30038892
It didn't fail. It was opened from the inside.
>>30039334
China has been buiilding their SOSUS since the late 2000s.
This project is merely the 'system-of-system' that integrates their existing SOSUS to command and control and offensive ASW assets.
>>30038892
It didn't though.
Remember that the Han, Tang, Yuan, Ming, and Qing dynasties all survived many invasions.
It was the Ming that got BTFO.
>>30042090
Okay, cool. That's at least respectable progress.
>>30035212
Debateable
>>30035212
Debateable
>>30038185
Well everyone has serious economic issues. They're still growing 6% per year though.
Also this system, if it even happens, is not that expensive.
>>30040858
>gooks
?
>can't develop anything ever
Why would you spend $100 billion on new inventions, when you can take it from America for $10 billion a few years after they make it.
>>30042268
>Why would you spend $100 billion on new inventions, when you can take it from America for $10 billion a few years after they make it.
Because that means you'll always be playing catch up, and it won't matter if you don't even have the capability of building what you're copying.
>>30033824
This has some big flaws. The simple fact it's placed in the SCS is, in itself, a huge fucking hurdle for such a system. The SCS has some crazy percentage of shipping traffic. US subs hiding behind legitimate shipping lanes is a pretty obvious counter.
Still, I imagine if it is developed far enough then it would produce better intelligence than nothing. There a quite a few responses the US. I see underwater drone subs becoming a thing that could fuck with the sensors flooding them with noise.
As of today this is still vaporware. We'll see where it goes.
>>30042639
The bigger problem is that the underwater topography of the SCS is a nightmare of mountain ranges that hampers the acoustics (the GIUK gap in comparison was much longer area but was easy to monitor due to the ocean bed being fairly uniform). This compounded with the obscene amount of commercial traffic makes the area difficult to monitor.
>>30042639
This basically is the advantage and disadvantage of both sides.
Chinese SSKs hiding in the SCS are just as hard to track and detect.
