Germans of /k/
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Good news.
http://german-rifle-association.de/halbautomaten-bundeslandwirtschaftsminister-haelt-wort/
What´s your opinion on the Schmeisser SLP-9?
Gun in question.
>>30018402
>balkanshit
>>30018395
you won't stand a chance when mohhamed brings out his AK. sorry, klaus.
>>30018402
https://www.pulverdampf.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=28501
Haven´t handled one myself and also haven´t seen one anywhere for sale yet. Is the SLP-9 in commercial production yet? Seems to me it´s a striker fired 9mm without the pre-stressed (vorgespannt) firing pin the Glocks have. Looks awfully lot like the Tara TM-9 to me.
>>30018557
Perhaps it´s the same deal as with the croatian HS Produkt HS2000 9mm guns being sold as Springfield XDs in the US. Schmeisser is just a more appealing name to german/US buyers than Tara. Especially since Tara is a pretty small arms manufacturer from Montenegro on the Balkans.
>>30018395
Sice this is a follow up thread on the last german /k/ommando one I want to give a shout out the guys from last time who argued about semis in DSB clubs. There are in fact semi-auto disciplines in the DSB since early 2016. In Bavaria this is, as always, ruled most favourably, but even in Rhineland Palatine Landesliste B now includes static semi-auto discipline.
>pic related
Legal silencers in the remaining states when?
Also I can't wait for them to unfuck the semi auto situation again, if they're actually going to do it. Going to buy me an SKS on the day it goes back to normal.
I mean I could buy one now with the fixed mag, but I want removable magazines on mine.
>>30018666
>since early 2016
Better late than never...
>>30018685
SKS is absolutely 100% legal for Sportschützen. The only thing is, you have to remove the bayonet when firing it on the range. Ammo is just as expensive as cheap .308 though.
>>30018687
Well semi-autos haven´t been a problem in the BDS and BDMP since ever. That´s why they were founded. You pick the Verband suited to your needs anon.
>>30018696
I'm a hunter, so I'm affected by the semi-auto crap
>>30018666
Schleswig-Holstein still doesn´t have any semi-auto rifle disciplines though.
>>30018709
we're fudd central i've noticed
>>30018716
That why I´m joining a BDS SLG in a few weeks, peeked in a BDS guy's Schützenbuch yesterday and was jelly as fuck seeing all this shit he´s able to shoot. I´ll still stay in my DSB club though, they love me there.
>>30018709
>>30018716
looks like it
>>30018709
>>30018716
Wow I´ve just looked up the NSDB Sportordnung. I feel sorry for you guys up there.
Different topic. Does anyone here has filed for the european fire arms pass? I´m interested in shooting with austrian friends of mine near Salzburg. Do I still need an invitation from a local range in addition to the paper work?
>>30018762
I have one. But I'm not sure if you actually need the invitation. I've always had one until now, because I went to competitions. Good question.
Keep in mind that some guns/calibers are illegal in Austria. If I am not mistaken semi auto shotguns are illegal in Austria. Maybe even .223 rifles.
>Germans talking to each other in English on here
Stay cucked faggots
>>30018798
I wanted to bring two repeating rifle one in 6,5 x 55mm and one in .308 Win as well as a 9mm handgun. I think the rifles fall under category C in austria. I will just give the austrian gun club, my friend goes to, a call. I don´t want to become the center of a legal shit storm.
>>30018821
It is called being polite faggot.
>>30018834
>your guns directly registered with the EU
I'd feel veeeeery uneasy about that.
>>30018730
>>30018726
north german /k/ range day when?
>>30018726
Sportschützen newfag here, i have a couple of Schützenvereine in my vicinity, which one's are the cool ones? BDS or DSB?
I'm looking for the nonfudd kind.
>>30018847
BDS, according to people on here.
I'd suggest going there in person, though. If you're confronted with people who insist an air rifle is all you need, it won't be very fun there
>>30018847
BDS gives you the most freedom. DSB is way more common though.
>>30018847
It really depends on the gun club itself. Just go there pay the 5-10€ for insurance and fire away. After shooting stay some time and talk to the members. In general BDS and BDMP are more friendly towards semi-autos than the DSB, but are relatively small and have few BDS only ranges. The DSB is still the biggest with the most shooting ranges and has recently become less fudd overall. In most DSB gun clubs I know the younger members are also mebers in the BDS and shoot BDS disciplines on the DSB ranges. So it really comes down to the gun clubs itself and the Vorstände of these gun clubs since these are the ones who write your Befürwortung if you want to buy a gun. Just don´t spill your spaghettis right away.
>tldr; depends, go there and ask around
>>30018847
BDS, BDMP or DSU. DSB only if there is no other option.
>>30018847
BDS, FSD or BDMP are pretty good. DSB only offers static shooting and limited gun selection also alot of FUDDs and or old people. You could also join a SLG.
>>30018862
I´m in a bigger gun club with air rifle and archery ranges as well as 25, 50, 100m pistol and rifle ranges. If you go there on one of the archery days, it is very well possible to be told archery or air rifle is all you need to have. On other days, or on the the 100m range you will be told that air rifles are for children and .338 Lapua Magnum is the only manly round.
>>30018862
>>30018869
>>30018877
>>30018883
That being said, ALL of them support the "Bedürfnisprinzip" (i.e. you need to proof that you "need" a gun either because you are a sport shooter, a hunter or a collector). If there was no such thing, they would lose a lot of their members. Just think about it.
>>30018894
This law is sadly here to stay. I´m all for going back to the early 1970ies before Willy Brandt fucked us over with his new gun legislation. If it wasn´t for him, we could still mail order repeating rifles and ammunition and would just have to proof we are over 18 to the delivery man.
>>30018845
I'd join the north german /k/ range day
does anyone know if i can get a legal silencer for hunting, if i can take it to a range as long as i am allowed to use that gun for sports shooting?
>>30018930
>>30018845
I´d join as well
But I don´t have any weapons yet. Still have to wait 10 months.
>>30018912
More like Willy Cunt
>>30018948
>Norddeutschland
>>30018940
Are you asking if you can take your hunting rifle with the suppressor to a (sport) shooting range or are you asking if you can use the suppressor with your sport shooting rifle?
The first one I would say absolutely. The second is probably a gray area, but should not be an issue if it is a rifle which could be used for hunting.
>>30018940
Yes it is legal to own and use silncers for hunting in germany. There was a recent court case about noise reduction by general use of silencer when hunting being a health and safety benefit for both animals and hunters. Sadly this was sacked by the judges a few weeks ago. But still, if your hunting grounds are near a cementary, school, hospital, retirement home or any other area that requires quietness, you will get your silencers approved. It´s Bedürfnisprinzip again I know, but it is well possible. If you live in bavaria you don´t need a special Bedürfnis as a hunter, you can buy them if you have a hunting licence. This is under heavy fire by the northern german states at the moment and could change under the pressure the put on bavaria.
>>30018968
Lärmschutz ist Tierschutz
>>30018959
first option was what i meant
>>30018968
i know all of that, i meant what >>30018959 's first paragraph describes
>>30018968
In Baden-Württemberg hunters may also own and use suppressors but as always we have our own "Extrawurst". You have to prove that you are actually an active hunter (e.g. by providing a copy of your lease for the hunting area) and not only hold a permit. Also you may only own suppressors for rifles which are legal for shooting deer and larger game ("schalenwildtauglich").
>>30018894
if there's one thing I hate, then this. law abiding citizens shouldn't be required to beg and prove to the state that they really absolutely need to own something in order to be able to buy it
>>30018930
what range would we go to, though?
>>30018948
you can usually rent guns
>>30019027
>You have to prove that you are actually an active hunter (e.g. by providing a copy of your lease for the hunting area) and not only hold a permit.
Something tells me that they'll eventually try to make this mandatory just to own guns as a hunter if the greens get voted in.
>>30019022
You can shoot everything you own legally at any range, given you apply to the rules of the place. That usually means, yes you can shoot your surpressed rifle if is under 7000 Joule and you don´t do any crazy drills.
>>30019034
I always wanted to go here:
http://www.rifleranch.de/index.php/unser-angebot
They seem to have a lot more weapons than they list online
>>30019043
not everything.
don't forget the useless 40mm hülsenlänge, or does just going to a range not count as sportschießen?
>>30019042
Greens just won their second term in Baden-Württemberg (yes, I don't want to live on this planet anymore) and they have not done anything like that. Yet.
>>30019042
That´s why you shouldn´t vote green if you are an active shooter. Remeber when they wanted to install a weapon´s tax of 200-300€ per year for _every_ gun you own. Yes that´s right that was Volker Beck and the the Greens.
>>30019054
The old crack whore.
>>30019050
Imho it does not, it counts as "Einschießen einer Jagdwaffe", but actually I´m not completely sure about that.
>>30019054
He needs those extra €. Meth is getting more expensive!
>>30018968
> silncers
oh god please
call em suppressors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMCUgmkJxfw
>>30019049
They do look neat, but it's quite a bit of a drive from here.
>>30019053
They can't do too much as gun law is federal law, but they can and probably will fuck up hunting
>>30019054
Voting Green is a vote against Germany and everything nice about it in general.
Here's what they think about guns: http://www.sven-giegold.de/2014/unfassbar-german-rifle-association-will-waffenbesitz-als-menschenrecht/
>>30019074
Dude I´m german, the german expression literally means sound suppressor. I not so firm with the technical terms in english, so I hope you forgive me.
>clip, clip, clip, clip, clip, clip
who AUSTRIA here?
where do you go shooting
and what are you shooting?
pic related
one of the least effective guns in my collection
>>30019100
but that is a clip
and I´m an austiran, so no excuses
>>30019074
who the fuck cares
>>30019088
>They can't do too much as gun law is federal law, but they can and probably will fuck up hunting
They already changed the hunting law, which is now called "Jagd- und Wildtiermanagementgesetz" last year, which is at least not a complete fuckup, still could be better though.
They also made suppressors legal for hunters, just before the elections. Don't get me wrong, I want to get rid of them as much as the next sane person, but at least down here it could be alot worse. And now that they have to deal with the CDU they probably can't cause as much damage in this regard as they want to.
>>30019116
Of course one of them is a stripper clip the other one is an en-bloc clip or Mannlicher Laderahmen my austrian friend.
>>30019125
>CDU
Really the only parties which dont hate us are FDP and AfD (and maybe NPD, not sure/dont care)
![M7GgFg3[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/VNUSOBL.png "M7GgFg3[1].png")
>>30019116
>but that is a clip
>>30019140
> Mannlicher Laderahmen
> Mannlicher
It really sounds funny if an US-fag tries to spell it right
though, I know people who spell Steyr like Steyrer
>>30019140
>mfw americans call Mauser Ladestreifen stripper clips and Mannlicher Laderahmen en-bloc clips
>>30019144
Agreed. ALFA also seems to be on our side but at this point they are just a joke. Same goes for the FDP in my opinion.
Video related:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcRogxA42nY
PS: Don't forget that the thread of an EU gun ban is still out there.
>>30019183
>thread
threat...
>>30019144
FDP for people who think Thatcher did nothing wrong, but still better than the parties in the bundestag and the NPD is for retards
Austria might actually get a pro gun president tomorrow, I'm honestly jealous of you cliff shitters
>>30019191
Zeit für ein non-EU Alpenreich
>>30019204
Bayern auf Restdeutschland ausdehnen
>>30019228
lieber nicht, einfach abspalten und annex durchc österreich und/oder schweiz
>>30019204
s-save us
so what do you guys own, anyway?
>>30019278
Nice try BKA...
>>30019278
Would you like the plain serial numbers or are pictures of my WBK sufficient?
>>30019278
I own three bolt action guns in .22 lfb, 6,5 x 55mm and .308 Win, one semi-auto in .308 Win and one polymer pistol in 9mm.
>mfw most german 'pro-gun' people still support mandatory Sachkunde and safe storage laws and even the Bedürfnisprinzip
Bunch of cucks
>>30019380
>sachkunde and safe storage laws
>bad
whats bad about that?
>>30018395
The BMEL is still leaded by the traitor Schmidt, we should wait until he actually did it before we start celebrating.
>>30019380
Sachkunde is a good thing, safe storage and Bedürfnis have to go tho
anyone got experience with .300RUM? anyone got a rifle in that?
>>30019428
They are useless and a waste of taxes at best, and at worst raise crime rates because they make it harder for people to defend themselves ot acquire the means to properly do so.
>>30019455
>.300RUM
No Sorry. 100m is the longest range near me, Ultra Magnum rounds are unicorns here.
>>30019449
>Sachkunde
Did you read the part in my post that said 'mandatory'?
>>30018685
Not anytime soon
http://www.outfox-world.de/news/schalldampfer-zwei-berufsjager-verlieren-vor-gericht.html
>>30019474
Yes, the test is a good thing.
>>30019490
Have to agree, the test is a piece of cake and everybody should know a thing or two about how a gun operates. What really needs to change are the laws regarding self defense.
>>30019499
second this
>>30019490
Care to explain why?
>>30019499
We have fairly good self and home defense laws, not as good as the ones in the US but among the best of yurop.
But yes self defense should be a reason to get a gun
>>30019521
If you own a gun you should know about the laws, safety and about how its operates.
You should get the gun license the same way you get a driver license
>>30019536
>*be able to get
>>30019428
Sachkunde should be required for hunting and carrying but not for sale, imo. Austria doesn't do that and they're fine.
Safe storage laws are something I do support, but not with you having to surrender your constitutional right against random searches if you own guns. Just hold owners responsible if something does happen and they were stored improperly.
Also the registry needs to go asap. The only point of it is to be able to efficiently confiscate guns eventually.
>>30019499
The self defense laws are actually quiet good at the moment. Just don't prepare an ambush and kill the guy while he flees and you're good to go.
>>30019522
Agreed. Self defense here is something I'm actually happy with.
We can discuss this out as long we want, but our laws wont get any better if we dont convince that funs are a good thing.
If there is a time to make german nogunz to hasgunz its now, but manny people still belive that guns are illegal or something.
We have to support the GRA and Pro Legal.
Also we need to shill on Youtube, Twitter and kikebook
>>30019499
>>30019536
Do you need the state to force you to do it before you educate yourself?
You can read the manual to learn how a gun operates, self defense laws etc can be taught in schools, or the GRA and others can make programs to educate people.
Also you failed to read my post.
I said mandatory Sachkunde is bad, that does not mean that people should not be educated about their guns and the laws surrounding them.
But people can and will do so on their own incentive.
Proof is the US, where 300+ million people with over 300 million guns have less than 1000 accidental gun deaths a year, between 500-800 on average. Without any state enforced Sachkunde.
>>30019577
If you want to shill you have to do it very knowledgable and in a calm and nice way. People don´t relate well to loud mouthed tacticool neck beards.
>>30019577
True. I already got a coworker of mine into pistol shooting.
Younger people are our best hope, I'd say. Many of them have grown up with shooter games and just like they understand how the outrage over "killerspiele" was retarded, they'll probably get why there's no reason to be anti-gun and they're actually very fun if handled responsibly.
Our sports teacher took us shooting once, I think everyone enjoyed it.
>>30019605
Yup. And many of them are misinformed. One I talked to genuinely though silencers made the gun completely silent and could only have a use in crime.
>>30019588
Do you think the Führerschein should be non mandatory too?
>>30019605
Yes, if we dont inform them they will listen to lies.
That even starts with people claiming that Pepperspray is illegal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mie1RTj-cVw
>>30019588
theres literally nothing wrong with mandatory knowledge tests
>>30019623
A Führerschein is only mandatory to drive a car on public roads, not to own a car.
I could live with a shall issue CC/OC license similar to a Führerschein, tho I don't think it would be benefitial.
Apples and oranges m8.
>>30019607
I try to get as many people my age as possible into shooting. Most of my friends like guns. One wants to come shooting with me, the rest is considering it. They are just not really into the whole gear and culture, but that´s totally fine with me. Most of the younger people are anti-funs for sure though.
>>30019644
kys cuck
People like you are why we have these laws in the first place.
Maybe we should make mandatory knowledge tests for buying alcohol and cigarettes too?
>>30019667
>They are just not really into the whole gear and culture
Well considering that the vast majority of german gun owners aren´t into the tactical culture as well, they should be fine. But you know live and let live.
>>30019676
there is a difference between driving a multiple ton vehicle on public streets with many other drivers or owning and shooting a gun that can be lethal if you dont pay attention to what youre doing and drinking alcohol
besides that there is not really any knowledge you need to have to handle alcohol or cigarettes safely
are you retarded? what does this have to do with cucks?
>>30019676
You couldnt pass the test I suppose?
>>30019693
>what does this have to do with cucks?
You are fine with doing gov mandated bullshit to 'exercise' a fundamental right. In fact, you actually prefer it that way.
So you're a cuck.
>>30019705
And here comes the elitary 'muh secret club' assholes who gets off on having passed some idiot test. Congratulations, Walter.
>>30019718
show me where in the german constitution having and using guns is declared a fundamental right
>>30019735
You do realize Germany does de jure not have a constitution?
And that natural rights don't have to be written down to exist but are instead a matter of philosophy and principles?
>>30019731
Wie man in den Wald hineinruft...
Don´t get me wrong I would like to see more liberal laws and non mandatory everything, but do you really think people gonna inform themselves? Some yes, but the majority won´t. We are talking about a basic test, nothing fancy, everything else should be up to the individual of course.
Thread theme: https://youtu.be/i1-s8c9IYos
>>30019735
We don't have a constitution but thanks for playing.
Are you one of those people who believe rights only started to exist after they were written down, or that they are granted by the state, and that everything that is law is just and everything that is not law does not or should not ever exist?
Any opinions on >pic related?
>>30019768
>Was ist das Grundgesetz
and who defines whats a basic right without it beeing written down?
>>30019787
the GG defines basic rights
>>30019049
Will be there a few times in the next months. Anyone in Wittloge this week?
>>30019769
>but do you really think people gonna inform themselves?
Yes, as is proven by the US. There are also thousands of other ways to educate people about gun safety, for example advertisements, infographics posted in gun stores, manuals that come with guns, etc.
I absolutely do believe people should be educated about gun safety and laws but a mandatory test is the absolute worst way to go about it.
If such a test is required to buy a gun it's a de facto license, because if it's government mandated, the gov must maintain records who did the test and thus it knows who owns guns, or is at least likely to own guns. Well, unless everyone did the test in school or something...
But anyway, what is so special about the Sachkunde that you would not learn otherwise? Nobody was ever able to answer this to me.
The basics of gun safety and self defense are taught in a couple of minutes, and that's all you really need to know to get started. The rest will accumulate over time, or is simply irrelevant for the casual user.
It would be much more effective, if the government actually cared about being effective or to increase gun safety / knowledge, to just create gun safety programs and advertisements. In fact, these things already exist and are distributed for free via the Internet and the people.
Sachkunde is nothing but a feel good measure, it has no benefit and only serves as some kind of fallacious 'insurance' that gun owners won't do stupid shit.
But they do anyway, just as drivers do stupid shit.
You guys should read "Die Waffenkultur" if you aren't already. It's free and a really well made magazine with lots of usefull information about guns, gear and everything that goes with it.
>>30019816
How about common sense, or thousands of lawyers, philosophers and others who have debated about rights for centuries?
>>30019823
The GG is a communist wet dream and a joke, it is not a constitution, but a set of excuses for the state to abuse it's citizens and remove their rights.
It needs to go almost as much as the EU.
>>30019053
> implying Kretschmann isn't just a conservative with Dosenpfand.
>>30019060
>>30019065
You'd think with his salary he'd be able to afford proper cocaine.
>>30019966
okay. give THE common valid definition of all basic rights that have any worth under law and aren't just some douches own definitions
you want to remove the grundgesetz? it is the BASIC law of germany and also defines basic rights in germany. it is probably the most basic thing there is for the country of germany
>>30019951
>Waffenkultur
We need a different word, something other than 'Waffe'. Gun, for example, is a loose technical term, but there is no german translation. Waffe, to me, always has a negative connotation, like an implication of offensive violence.
Anyone else feel that way?
>>30020051
>gun
Schusswaffe
>>30020051
Not to myself personally, but I think most people feel that way. Look at how the media chimps out over people getting the kleinen waffenschein because it sounds scary
>>30020061
>Schusswaffe
>Schuss-Waffe
How about "Schießeisen"? I know, not really...
>>30020051
>>30020075
Sportprojektlibeschleuniger
>>30020088
>Jagd ist ein Sport
>>30019204
Fick ja! We'll do our own union with guns and hooker!
>>30020061
Doesn't make it better.
Knifftenkultur?
Schiessprügelkultur?
Bleispritzenkultur?
There are a lot of gun related terms in German that make me cringe because they reek of piss stained Loden and fudd culture
> Büchse
> Flintenlaufgeschoss
> Vorderschaftrepetierer
>>30020025
There is no THE definition because people obviously do not agree on what rights are or simply don't understand them. See for example people who claim that healthcare is a right, or other positive rights in general.
If you believe in human rights tho, the most widely accepted or agreed upon ones certainly are the rights to life, property and the pursuit of happiness. These basic rights have their equivalents in the german GG, too, and all 3 of them imply an inherent right to defend ones live and to own property suited to do so.
If you believe in the right to life, it would be hypocritical to not believe in a right to keep and bear arms.
Also, look up article 146. We need a german constitution. If the gg is the foundation of our state than its not a very good or free state.
>>30020111
>SCHÜTZENKULTUR
was ist daran denn so schwer?
>>30020111
Mündungssignaturreduzierer
>>30020111
>Vorderschaftrepetierer
Vorderschaftrepetierflinte is even better
>>30020117
> SCHÜTZENKULTUR
> SCHÜTZE
Doesn't do it for me.
>>30020114
>If you believe in the right to life, it would be hypocritical to not believe in a right to keep and bear arms.
completely different things, feel free to try to let a high court decide because YOUR interpretation of the GG does not count for shit, courts interpretation does.
How some people or you define basic rights or interpret the GG is completely irrelevant.
>Also, look up article 146.
this article is pretty much irrelevant in this here.
>We need a german constitution. If the gg is the foundation of our state than its not a very good or free state.
Subjective
>>30020144
See, people like you are the problem and sadly, german gun culture is full of you. How can you be into guns but not believe in freedom or human rights?
Why must some authority figure confirm rights before you believe in them? Can you not think for yourself?
I guess being statist bootlickers is in our blood but come on, it's literally the current year and we should be better than this.
>>30020144
With Germany in his current it would be very dangerous to implement a constitution.
Politicians think up non-grundgesetzkonforme laws all the time, what makes you think they could (or wanted to) write a constitution that would actually benefit the people?
>>30020183
>How can you be into guns but not believe in freedom or human rights?
nothing i wrote implies im not into freedom or human rights
>Why must some authority figure confirm rights before you believe in them? Can you not think for yourself?
because it is necessary to have the rights protected by law since you need an official common definition
>I guess being statist bootlickers is in our blood but come on, it's literally the current year and we should be better than this.
and how would having no clear constitution or basic law improve anything?
>>30019951
Can confirm, solid stuff and free.
>>30020192
At this point they'd probably make islamization a constitutional principle (not that the asylparagraph isnt getting abused for that right now)
>>30020192
replied to the wrong guy?
>>30020239
Maybe.
Probably.
Anyway, pic related is frontpage news in Switzerland, makes me jelly as fuck.
>>30020269
>TD
>>30018798
>If I am not mistaken semi auto shotguns are illegal in Austria.
no they are not
>Maybe even .223 rifles.
depends on the model
>>30018762
yeah you do need an invitation
OR a permanent transition allowance
>>30018821
fagget
>>30018834
yes bolt action rifles over 60cm length are category C
>>30019278
where is the proofs ?
>>30020215
Wait, hold on for a minute.
What if...
We could prove that firearms do not increase violent crime,
and could sometimes be used to prevent/stop them?
I mean in theory we have §32 StGB, which means we do have the right to self-defense, so if there was evidence proving our point that would provide a "need" for everyone, right?
Also "the less guns the better" never was or is a law, it's simply a reasoning used by a single judge in a verdict, which is now commonly reapplied.
Too bad the people do not have a right to initiate law changes and so all we can do is sue (and lose, as shown by the supreme court ruling on semiautos for hunters, even if the law is on our side)
>>30020308
Had this come up at the range recently:
When do you put the finger on the trigger? Was told to keep my finger outside the trigger guard until my sights are on target and I am basically already holding my breath.
Personally I learned it (and that's how I do it) like this:
My finger goes inside the trigger guard when I am in position and roughly pointing the gun downrange, and I start creeping up on the breaking point as I align my sights. I only really take it out of the trigger guard when not at the stand and ready, or taking a break in between shots/observing the target.
>>30020835
you should generally keep the finger off the trigger and that usually means in a safe position outside the trigger guard (usually along the receiver, depending on the gun) if you dont want to shoot
and as long as youre not aiming at your target you dont want to shoot
>if youre not on ur target, keep the finger in a position outside the trigger guard
>>30020896
I usually won't put it inside/on the trigger until I am aimed at the paper, but the guy I was shooting with explained I should only touch the trigger when I am aimed at the black part and already holding my breath. I feel like that might slightly throw off my aim and take longer than necessary in the "on the ten, not breathing" position.
>>30020192
The point of a constitution is to stop politicians from doing that.
Compare our GG with the US constitution:
The US constitution recognizes rights and puts limits on government power and what it can do. Our GG is basically a long list of 'rights' with explanations on when they don't apply or when government can ignore them, with some added protection for the government.
The people must write a constitution, not politicians.
>>30020215
Where did I say that our constitution should be unclear?
Anyway, if you consider mandatory tests a good thing, you have already failed to understand freedom, and also don't know the statistics on guns and gun laws.
You should read Lotts 'the bias against guns' to get a better understanding of just how useless such laws are.
>>30020766
It has already been proven that guns are a net benefit to society and to crime statistics, and that pretty much every gun law had a positive impact on the crime rate (causing it to rise).
The problem is that these laws and politicians don't operate on logic or statistics but on agenda, which is another reason to mistrust them completely and not give them a single inch (such as mandatory tests).
Anyway, the current situation is that to get self defense recognized as Bedürfnis (to get a waffenschein), you, as an individual, need to be in more danger than the Allgemeinheit. So it doesn't matter if guns raise or lower crime, because as an individual you will never be in more danger because the relative danger of the people as a whole also increases / decreases.
It's a law deliberately written to prevent people from getting the permits.
>>30020954
mhm, i don't do that because then it sometimes throws me off a little bit. i think as long you keep it safe you can do it however you want
>>30021026
>Where did I say that our constitution should be unclear?
nowhere, and i didn't say that you said it should be unclear. i merely said that if you dont define basic rights anywhere you cannot get a clear thing to base the laws on
>Anyway, if you consider mandatory tests a good thing, you have already failed to understand freedom
there is not only black and white. if youre handling potentially dangerous things like guns or cars in a public environment you have to guarantee the knowledge of sanity of the user to be sure that others arent in danger because some idiot couldnt be bothered to study all rules etc.
the whole point of a mandatory test is to prevent people who dont know what they are doing from handling potentially dangerous things in public
>>30021149
>knowledge of sanity
i meant to write "knowledge and sanity"
>>30019667
dat weapon and ammo storing
>>30021149
The general consensus is that the human rights are life, property and pursuit of happiness (liberty).
>guarantee
Like I said, you have not grasped the entirety of the issue yet. You can not guarantee, ever. It is not possible to achieve 100% security and it certainly isn't possible to maintain any liberty while trying.
Read Lott, it is factually proven that gun laws have positive effects on crime rates which means they actually decrease safety.
It actually is pretty black and white and what little gray remains, you can better handle that through educational means than with laws.
And the test (Sachkunde) is already required to merely 'own' guns which has nothing to do with handling them in public.
>>30020308
>Bolt locked back (check the lever)
>Empty magazine
>Photo shoot without ear protection on half of the pictures
>Talking about trigger discipline
You got more than your share of chromosomes, haven't you?
>>30021405
>not always treating a gun as if its loaded
>>30021430
>can never clean or inspect gun or do any drills
>>30021330
if you cannot buy a gun if you dont know what youre doing it stops you from using that gun it in public since you cannot buy it legally
if you can buy it, but dont know what the fuck youre doing noone will have control about wheather you use it in public or not until someone checks your license
>>30021451
you have your finger on the trigger while cleaning your gun?
>>30021470
Why should anybody else have control over it?
What exactly do you believe would happen if people could just buy guns without any red tape?
>>30021479
Idk, I turn it and grab it in all kinds of ways and sometimes clean the trigger too
>>30021190
>he doesnt have a vault
Shhh nothing personel kid
>>30021514
>Why should anybody else have control over it?
because if someone who doesnt know what they are doing are handling a loaded gun in public is likely gonna cause more accidents and they are gonna do more mistakes because they dont know better. and im sure you know that an unlucky accident with a loaded gun can be lethal
this increased risk for other people only because someone didnt want to take a single fucking test?
>>30019054
>That´s why you shouldn´t vote green if you are an active shooter.
I have yet to meet a gun owner who wouldnt vote CSU or AfD.
>>30021565
Again, the US has over 300 million people and by now something like 350 - 400 million legal guns. They also have no tests or anything to buy a gun, the only mildly similar thing to Sachkunde might be some CC classes in states that don't yet have constitutional carry.
But even tho there are no mandatory knowledge tests anywhere in the US, and despite the huge amount of guns and gun owners, only 500-800 people out of 300 million die because of accidents with guns per year.
It's also likely that some of those are suicides where the family claimed accident to not accept the truth of having a loved one kill themselves. Some of them are dindus who take selfies while pointing loaded guns at their head, others are drunk rednecks with several DUI charges, or otherwise really neglectful people, like that mom who left a loaded gun in reach of her children.
No mandatory test would stop irresponsible people from being themselves.
And you still think in terms of all or nothing despite numerous suggestions on my part to provide alternative methods of education that would likely be more effective, cheap and practical than a mandatory government test.
>>30019558
>The only point of it is to be able to efficiently confiscate guns eventually.
Or to quickly identify the owner of guns used in crimes.
>>30019718
>fundamental right
According to whom?
Because newsflash: Not all people share your personal opinion on what's a "fundamental right".
>>30021818
this
>>30020114
>If you believe in the right to life, it would be hypocritical to not believe in a right to keep and bear arms.
Holy non-sequitur, Batman!
>>30021805
National gun registry is so useless it helps solving less than 1% of the crimes comitted with guns. You know why? Because criminals don't fucking register their guns. And in the very rare case some legal gun owner comits a violent crime it is solved anyway because it's likely a crime of passion and the weapon used is irrelevant.
Canada abolished their gun registry because it was so useless but very expensive.
Get learnt.
>>30021818
>>30021854
Holy shit why are you even here?
>>30021890
>you have a right to life but not to defend it
Yea right makes perfect sense
Like I said initially, a large part of german 'pro-gun' people are fucking retards who have no clue about what it means to own guns, about gun laws or about gun statistics. Sad!
>>30022247
U wot m8
Allahu akbar
https://www.all4shooters.com/en/Shooting/law/EU-gun-ban-JURI-subsidiarity/
>>30023333
Can we please make a meme out of this?
>>30021405
> news about a local shooting competition makes national headlines in the middle of europe
> shooters depicted as bright young athletes
> bitching about what looks good on a photo
You're a special kind of stupid, aren't ya?
Any links you would like to see in a Pastebin?
>>30023682
That pic makes me uncomfortable.
>>30023682
Combat cancer?
>>30023966
Websites for the german ranges/clubs.
How-to for people looking to get into the sport.
If I'm moving to Germany for ~5 years with no intention of becoming a citizen, can I still own guns? I read up on the process of obtaining a license takes a year of attendance at a sports club, but does this also apply to foreigners? (Or maybe residents is a better word? I'll be living and working here, paying taxes and all that jazz.)
