R.I.P Armata
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You are currently reading a thread in /k/ - Weapons
Maker of the Armata T-14 ‘Super Tank’ is set to file for bankruptcy
The maker of the Armata T-14 “Super Tank,” Uralvagonzavod, is set to file for bankruptcy. According to a notice posted to the Federal Register, the industrial enterprise's main creditor, Alfa-Bank, intends to file a bankruptcy petition.
Alfa-Bank intends to do the same with Uralvagonzavod's two subsidiary enterprises, the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant and the Tractor Plant Technology Park.
A representative for Uralvagonzavod said the company would not comment on Alfa-Bank's intentions to file a bankruptcy petition.
https://meduza.io/en/news/2016/05/19/the-super-tank-tanks-maker-of-the-armata-t-14-super-tank-is-set-to-file-for-bankruptcy
Like
Fucking
Pottery
>>29997235
>vatniks
You cannot make this shit up
kekle my shekels
What a boondoggle
>>29997235
But it looked so cool.....
>>29997235
>Alfa-Bank
Again? This isn't the first time, no one cares.
>>29997235
No more T-72/90 :(((((!
>>29997235
Kurganmashzavod have filled a bankruptcy early this year and Izhmash have doing it snice ages
they are government-owned companies
that what they do
>>29997235
I can't find any other sources on this at all
Seems fishy at best
>>29997413
http://russia-insider.com/en/business/alfa-bank-files-bankruptcy-suit-against-uralvagonzavod/ri6681
One google search found a shit tonne of pages and this is one
>T-72s for another 70 years
>>29997413
It's an old story only rehashed. The bankruptcy thing was even talked about in mp.net before it went sideways.
>>29997263
>but it looked so cool
You know it was probably made of cardboard and scotch tape right?
>>29997235
>T-14
>soon to be another wreck on the ever growing mountain of garbage russia never could afford to build
Choose two
Vatniks BTFO
>>29997413
Is it PROOFSTER time again?
>>29997235
T-14 is a failed idea anyway, they should go bankrupt and vatas should focus on making actual modern tank, not technology showboat.
>let's make a tank without the crew in the turret, nothing can go wrong.
>>29997483
Isn't this a year old?
>>29997483
I cant find anything apart from OPs source and your source.
>>29997549
>weebshit
>dumb enough to fall for this
Pick 2
Also get the fuck out of /k/ with your weebshit
Fucking cancer
Russia makes some pretty cool stuff that they just can't afford. AN-94 and AEK-971 come to mind.
>>29997235
Another day, another fake "sensation" by buttmad rusophobes. Sad view, actually
>>29997235
That's old news, anon, where the fuck have you been? Problem has been sorted for ages now.
>>29997697
That's all they can do, anyway.
>>29997621
It is.
OP is out for triggering people
>>29997565
Yeah. Because sticking your head out and scanning the periphery with Mk 1 eyeballs is ever the way forward.
Dumbfucks like you never thought that all that percieved (only that, since thermals see further and better and in nearly all co ditions, must be thing with wind in the air for wannabe runaway austrian nuns)advantages of looking atop the turret is completely negated when you button up - which in combat happens 99% .
As for muh reliability, machines typically have failure rates of 1in 10000, humans in contrast are like fumbling idiots. There's a reason we compare people of exceptional precision and consistency in what they are doing to machines. They also can't fix anything bigger than simple glitches(mostly human related) esp. with tools on hand. Its why SOP for pretty much everything that gets damaged or doesn't work and isn't fixed on the spot(like in case of glitches) is to replace them.
As for muh degraded operation- it should go back to where it truly belongs, the ww2 battlefield. People its like there's a fucking reason why tanks carried close to hundred rounds of MG ammo per tank and that's even with people only trained and mastered manual gunnery.
tl;dr armata btfos neoluddites.
Total ass devastation, wailing and gnashing of teeth and feeble attempts to recover(the op is a texttbook case of grasping at straws) but as the saying goes:
>Dogs bark but the caravan moves on.
>>29997549
>russia never could afford to build
it's
>russia could never afford to build
you autistic weebshit real americans don't watch cartoons for chinese infants
>>29997818
(you)
>>29997818
This vatnik is triggered.
Broke company, broke country.
>>29997630
>complaining about animes
>on 4chan
Did you miss the briefing on 4chan, shillbot?
No potato for you.
>>29997818
the only real problem I can see with the unmanned turret is the lack of utility machineguns that were mounted on M1xx abrams in urban operations but hey it's not like the T-14 is going to be used tomorrow
>>29997235
>after a year of "could all tanks of the world be of standings up against glrorious T-14 armata?" and "abrams rekt, armata best tank xaxa"
>After ages of "f35 too expensive american capitalist pigdog"
>MFW russia can't even afford to produce, RND, let alone keep the company afloat
Uralvagonzavod is mostly owned by the Russian government, so these words and threats are empty and completely irrelevant.
Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank bailout when?
>>29997842
Stick your potato up your ass and make vodka out of it.
>>29997492
Holy shit, this is amazing!!! Who made this gif?
>>29997872
> words and threats are empty and completely irrelevant
Just like russia
>>29997685
>AN-94 and AEK-971
They can easily afford them. Too bad there are millions of AKs in pristine condition i must add sitting in warehouses unopened. The money that could be spent is better used for tanks, aircraft, just about everything else really - nobody cares if your rifles are the best when its arty, tanks and aircraft that do most of the killing.
>>29997872
>IS OF GOVERNMENT CANNOT BE OF BANKRUPT
>>29997886
DELETE THIS!!!
>>29997235
That company normally produces tractors.
>>29997836
>>29997837
>>29997886
>total anal devastation
>wailing and gnashing of teeth
I love it when they are so butthurt they couldn't even make it past one liners with their replies. Not that their post are any better with more time to think.
>>29997885
I did
>>29997968
That's a pretty good job, senpai.
>>29997886
>t. "Redlines on the sand" Obama.
>>29997852
Tankers actually preferred HEAT rounds for disposing of targets in hard cover. You can shoot at walls all day with machinguns and unless those are some really shitty walls they won't penetrate. With heat you just point and whatever it hits and anything nearby is dead. It gets even better with proper HE-frag.
>>29997948
>>29997235
not like it matters since the technical stuff belongs to the government. It's just like if the company that made M1 abarm goes bankrupt, it doesn't mean there won't be new M1 anymore, just just means the government will contract the production to another company
This would never have happened under Communism. The owner would be on his way to cut trees in Siberia and a competent party member would be installed.
>>29997886
SAVAGE
A
V
A
G
E
The amount of fucking butthurt in this thread, from both sides.
If I get dubs, both vatniks and freeaboos are shitstains.
>>29997948
Why would we get butthurt?
We can finance an apparrently useless 5th gen fighter with no working software or practial use that costs us 3560 gorillion dollars every minute for over a decade.
You can't even keep your only hope for a modern, competetive battletank, a pride of your nation, afloat
>>29998213
>You can't even keep your only hope for a modern, competetive battletank, a pride of your nation, afloat
Not to mention Ruble
>>29998156
It did happen under communism. T-10/IS3 was exacly like T-14, a paper tiger
>>29998243
They produced too much of them and cleverly made incompatible models so the enemy wouldn't be able to make working tanks out of multiple destroyed units.
>>29998125
>>29998176
Samefagging won't make that prolapsed anus any better.
>>29998213
>being this deluded to drink the debunked OP's koolaid
Enjoy your boondoggle fampai.
>>29998243
Only that it backfired pretty hard.
With France and Germany making a new gen tank and the USA mostlikely will do the same.
The gap between Russia with its upgraded T-72 tanks and the NATO will only get bigger.
>>29998288
Why won't France or Germany share? America shared a lot of its bombs with Continental Europe in the 40s.
>>29998265
No, T10 was an useless piece of shit that is a contender for worst tank ever made.
They are so bad that even the russians who keep their garbage around, dropped it and is now using only the turrets to guard chinese border.
It was so bad that when it went offroad, it would crack its own hull.
Still marginally better than T-14 which starts having trouble driving on tarmac
>>29998302
Share what? With whom?
>>29998272
>Enjoy your boondoggle fampai.
>being part of a nation that gets its entire income from 1 source and fails to do even that
You seem to be enjoying your boondogle allready fempatnik
>>29998309
>They are so bad that even the russians who keep their garbage around, dropped it and is now using only the turrets to guard chinese border.
That was the IS-3
The T-10 was not used for that.
>>29998243
>>29998265
Nice fanfiction. As compared to amercia that had paper tigers all the way but thanks to hans finally had something better than wet tp.
>>29998288
>The gap between Russia with its upgraded T-14 tanks and the US will only get bigger.
Ftfu. abrahams are to rot until 2050 at the earliest according to them. yuropoors are irrelevant.
>>29997892
I get that rifles don't win wars. I also get that while they could easily afford equipping everyone with the most advanced rifles they have, it wouldn't be practical. So they may as well be unable to afford them
>>29998366
They upgraded the AK-74 to the "SM" model or some shit? It's the same thing we keep doing with the m-16. There's no point in changing the rifle for the average soldier if it works.
>>29998309
As opposed to the mighty sheridan pos that haven't even killed a fly with its raison detre of a shitpile of a a gun.
As opposed to the hilariously outarmored, outgunned m1 abrams when it first appeared wielding that dinky 105.
>still stuck in 2015 memes
>>29998315
american education everyone. Oil and gas barely even make 20% of their gov budget nowadays.
>>29998386
>As opposed to the mighty sheridan pos that haven't even killed a fly with its raison detre of a shitpile of a a gun.
Killed plenty of T55's and above in the hands of the isreaelis.
>>29998423
>being this anally devastated that you resort to flat out making shit out.
>>29998457
I'm not surprised by your superior ability to blatantly ignore the truth, after all you somehow are able to believe that life in russia is not all that bad
>mfw
>all this Vatnik damage control
>Rossiya SRONK No1 !!!
>Russia can't even afford to build a tank
>mfw
>>29997818
You are bullshitting no one.
>>29998423
M8 the Israelis never used the Sheridan and it was actually dog shit
>>29998479
>ctrl + f israel in sheridan wikipage
>0 results
Eyup. Still brutally devastated. Must be that bad when you double down even if cursory search reveals its false. >>29998481
*Yawn* meh/10 but here's a (you).
I realized you faggots must have not that much of a life beyond shitposting. Otherwise you wouldnt be so invested here even though your assholes are inflamed with the fires of Hades itself
>>29998509
Fitting image. Just shows we don't subscribe to the same reality.
meanwhile in the real world they shat out at least 10 of them already fromwhat weve seen in the parade.
>>29998517
>and he triples down like the dumb cunt he is.
>>29998537
>being this rectal ravaged while calling others butthert
wheres the yoba?
>>29998587
>You
>You
>You
Amazing how calling out people on 4chan is somehow relevant to being a credible argument. Maybe if I start calling ivan names my point will be more true too. That's how arguing works right?
>>29998588
And weve reached the apex of butthurt: proofsters. Im out, reached my daily inflicted butthurt quota with very large margins, off to drink.
>this fucking thread
>>29998625
Welcome to /k/. Now gtfo newfag with your mock indignance.
>>29998627
It's pretty late to start drinking in Moscow, it's already 9 over there.
>>29998537
Except, the T14 has every issue in the picture. The display issues could have been fixed. Maybe competent people are driving the tank during the parades or the parking break works now. Maybe this tank is of typical shitty Russian quality. Those are all maybes. The tank still uses an inferior unmanned turret that cripples it's operational capability. The 2a82 w/ svinet or vacuum rounds are less lethal than anything western, ATGM technology for guns is a joke if you are fighting any tank built after 1990. My favorite, it still lacks some 21st technology pieces of equipment found on other tanks. The picture is still pretty accurate, and the most detailed counter to the picture that ass rapes the t14 for what is goes like this "this picture is fucking stupid", and no one has argued anything else. It's pretty fucking credible still.
>>29998640
Is that a scream of relief? Cause as far as I am tracking the status quo is still the same. The t14 is shit, Russia is shit, and there's a buttmad ivan namecallingnto vent his frustration. As a burger clap, i am thoroughly enjoying this thread.
>>29998681
Must be tiring to type bullshit amiright buddy? We haven't even seen that vaunted vacuum sabot of theirs nor are atgms shit when the army had contracted a few of them over the years and yids love them.
>>29997818
>Yeah. Because sticking your head out and scanning the periphery with Mk 1 eyeballs is ever the way forward.
I can guarantee you that whatever optics and cameras T-14 has have lower FoV than human eyes. Let alone human eyes with crew having, you know, a neck, that allows them to turn around quickly without losing focus or orientation(without additional training and practice, because you know, you have all the time to make things as unintuitive as possible)
>As for muh degraded operation- it should go back to where it truly belongs, the ww2 battlefield.
Because nothing can break under pressure, right?
Let's say it's hit from the side of the turret(which is said to be less armoured to "focus on crew protection") with APFSDS round. The round goes through, damages auto-loader or turret mechanism, nothing else happens because that's APFSDS for you. In a tank with a crew inside of turret, some of them might get hurt, that's fucking hell, however the rest of the crew can still continue fighting despite the damage inflicted to the tank.
Even the "focusing protection" is fucking retarded because they've located the crew in fucking hull. The hull isn't the rarest thing hit in the battle, but the overwhelming majority of hits hit the front of the turret as evidenced by, well, now it's almost century of using tanks in combat. Even then, by locating the crew close to the bottom of the tank you compromise their anti-AT mine defence but that's not everything. As for systems you are protecting in this way - there are 2 of them. Propulsion and part of ammunition storage(I guess, unless it's stored all in the turret). So the damage of the system that can work in degraded mode normally is more likely than in conventional tank since the turret's protection is compromised. So autoloader, ammunition storage, MG's, optics, turret mechanism... they can all be disabled completely and you can't deal with it in any way. Most can still work in degraded mode. Propulsion can't.
>>29998765
In fact if you're going to store everybody in the same compartment, go for turret. It's still very shitty idea overall but better than putting everybody into hull.
>>29998697
>>29998640
Looks like dude's suffering a heart attack.
Friends don't hestitate to whip out the phone and speed-dial emergency services. Deep breaths, its all just banter from the mad vatnik- he's out there getting blind drunk now. And drop the burgers before you suffocate while doing just that.
>>29998778
>>29998765
Basically this.
Also imagine trying to back up the t14 without a ground guide. You are going to hit something Everytime.
>Can't afford PAK-FA
>Can't afford T-14
>government has to subsidize vodka and put price caps on it
will russia ever not be eternally russia'd?
>>29998778
The MBT-70 proved the crew in the turret is a bad idea. For instance its hard as fuck to drive, something was said like you need a masters to drive one and of course the turret has necessary weakspots like the mantle and turret ring unlike the hull which is more homogenous in armor arrangement.
>>29998807
Actually the MBT-70's turret ring was protected much like on the M48 where the turret had an overhang.
>>29998778
>if you're going to store everybody in the same compartment, go for turret
Fatniks and their damage control.
>>29998795
Most cars have rear-looking cams. Or at least where i live.
>>29998804
They don't subsidize vodka, in fact excise tax are some of the steepest.
>>29997235
>Russian army tries to modernize
>lets develop cool shit and adopt it
>oh wait we don't have any money
>lets keep using all of our 1970s vintage that wasn't stolen or sold 20 years ago
same thing happened with the AN94, cool as shit, but couldn't afford it.
All their "new" shit is just old shit with some more plastic or aluminum taped on.
>>29998807
As I've said both ideas are fundamentally retarded but turret works little bit better since at least you're protecting the part of the tank that's hit the most often, the most.
>>29998826
The "low profile turret" in your pic had unspecified auto-loading mechanism(the drawing the authors provided required literally flipping the shells over and there's no space for it) and as you can see it's only "low profile" because it lacks that TC mini-turret that was unmanned during combat/under fire and separated by additional barrier(in the US, Israeli man it during combat and they never complained).
In reality it wouldn't be much smaller than the one in ordinary tank - AS EVIDENCED by T-14 not having significantly smaller turret than T-72, T-90 or whatever else.
>>29998851
>They don't subsidize vodka, in fact excise tax are some of the steepest.
no shit
any true vatnik knows this
>>29997818
It's like you never heard of hull down.
>>29998765
They have a couple of cameras dotting the perimtrr of the turret offering a stitched together 360 degree panoramic view. Also human peripheral vision is only good for detecting movement at up to 200 m at best, anything more and the brain rejects since details are too scarce that youll get overwhelmed with amount of false targets. Necks are also unstabilized, don't give out precise azi and elev for gunner to use.
>>29997827
Nope. Can, could, or may express the potential, subjunctive mood of the verb, and thus should never be separated by an adverb for clarification's sake. Never may ______, not may never _______.
>>29998908
Soviet doctrine generally ignored hull down in offensive operation(and for defensive they've decided that integrated dozer blade will let the tanks to "entrench" themselves and it will serve for good temporary hull down position).
>>29998883
>AS EVIDENCED by T-14 not having significantly smaller turret than T-72, T-90 or whatever else.
It's the casing for sensors, dumbass. The turret itself even with this casing has much smaller silhouette than, say, M1 turret. And it is unmanned, meaning no space is required for meatbags inside, since all meatbags are in the hull, much lower than the average aim point and hence much safer. Come on, move goalposts again. I double dare you, motherfucker.
>>29998952
>It's the casing for sensors, dumbass
Which means that the sensors will be disabled quickly and the thing is sensor-heavily.
>The turret itself even with this casing has much smaller silhouette than, say, M1 turret.
That's because of NATO having stupid fetish for huge turrets for whatever reasons.
>And it is unmanned, meaning no space is required for meatbags inside
Instead it has sensors, automatic systems etc. etc. All of which can be damaged and disable the tank just as much as hitting crew would or maybe even more - since it has NO degraded mode for anything.
>>29998974
Less quickly than the sensors without any casing. As in on any other MBT in the world.
>All of which can be damaged and disable the tank
All of which are much less likely to receive any damage than three meatbags inside of a huge manned turret hit by an APFSDS or, what is much more likely nowadays, ATGM. And I hope you didn't just try to argue that a tank is a heavier loss than its crew.
>>29998851
>Rear looking toilet paper tubes
You're still going to hit shit. M1 has rear view cameras on the hull too.
>>29998765
>Let's say it's hit from the side of the turret(which is said to be less armoured to "focus on crew protection") with APFSDS round. The round goes through, damages auto-loader or turret mechanism, nothing else happens because that's APFSDS for you. In a tank with a crew inside of turret, some of them might get hurt, that's fucking hell, however the rest of the crew can still continue fighting despite the damage inflicted to the tank.
The only way you can f-kill an unmanned turreted tank is by directly hitting the gun itself, the gun elevation mechanism, the AL mechanism and of course turret traverse mechanism.
For a manned turreted tank its ditto plus the crew- or are you suggesting the tank can still fight with any one of the people in the turret injured? It cant, pulling the drivet out immobilizes the tank and an immobilized tank is a dead tank until its secured by friendlies. Killing either the gunner or commander also more likely than not means their stations are damaged too. Commander's controls arent duplicated and gunner's sight dont provide additional functions alongside commander's view of the gunner.
>>29998826
topkek
This picture again. I didn't think anyone would post it seriously around here, but vatniks are definitely full of surprises.
The main mistake here is taking statistics out of their context. If you build a tank and want to know how you should distribute the armour and crew, of course you will look at where it gets the most shots and make sure those spots are the best protected and keep the crew far away from them. The thing is that this only applies to a tank with a specific silhouette. If you change the silhouette, shots won't be aimed at the same spots anymore. You're therefore changing variables on which the statistics are based, and they won't be correct anymore. Simply put, gunner aren't going to aim above the tank if you make it smaller, they'll just aim lower.
So in terms of statistics, the distribution curve on the left would be much lower than the one on the right.
>>29998952
Yeah, cardboard turret full of fragile sensors that could be fucked up by WW2 20mm guns.
>>29998952
>Smaller turret meme
It's still the same size as other eastern tanks, we have had no problem hitting anyway.
>>29999063
Keks were had. Fucking fatniks, Jesus Christ.
>>29999050
Its a tank. Not your wife's car. You can use it to plow a city block and it won't even dent the structure.
>>29998935
They hated prepared positions, not the hull down itself. They planned to shell ridgelines with tube arty before and during the tank charge.
>>29999080
>doesn't understand basic math
As expected for a subspecies.
>>29999026
>ATGM
Except modern tanks composite armors are some 20-25%+ more effective against chemical warheads than kinetic, to the point it's extremely unlikely to even penetrate side armor.
>Inb4 gifs of tank hits with tanks with 90s armor packages
>Inb4 the extreme low numbers of losses of nato tanks not in mudslide hands
>>29998826
>statistics from WW2
>Russian vehicle design based on WW2 guns and optics
>>29999071
As opposed to fragile sensors simply installed on the top of the turret with no protection at all? Yeah, right.
>>29999073
Only that now hitting a turret doesn't make all that much sense, since there is no crew inside and disabling a mechanism is much harder than disabling a meatbag.
>Anything the US can't have is a meme
Stay jelly.
>>29999063
None of that even matters. Hit to the turret will still disable T-14. Especially since turret won't be well armored.
Maybe Russians finally made a tank that won't automatically murder it's crew after every hit, but instead it will be much larger more expensive and harder to use and maintain.
>>29999056
Actually you can. You pull floaters from HQ platoon, or you move the gunner to the loaders station as the TC can also fire the gun.
>>29999094
We didn't hit cars, we hit t55s through t72s with relative ease, at extreme ranges. The "smaller size" isn't an actual argument when it's still as big as other tanks turrets used by the east. Do you lack reading comprehension?
>>29999120
>Anything the US can't have is a meme
They made Armata half a century ago. And concluded it's not worth it.
>>29998386
Oil's ~49% of the budget
>>29999111
Kornet shits on Abrams armour.
inb4 lies 2000 mm RHA
>M1 combat history outside of the Middle-East
404 not found.
>>29999120
>Humans vs machines
You do realize that the optics have mirrors, control units have circuit boards, memory chips, everything is welded or bolted down, and so on, that its retarded for you to actually make that argument machines are more resilient? Cause they aren't, they are more fragile then the crew.
You can redact your argument and say the T14 isn't a heavily computerized tank, that's fine too, it still works in my favor, that the T14 is shit.
>>29999181
>Russian combat history outside of the Maintenance Depot
404 turret not found
>>29999181
>Shits on Abrams armor
Yeah and there are thousands of t72s littering the parallel from Africa to Ukraine.
What makes you think the Armata is any better? Oh that's right, it's a different tank. And The M1A2S and A2M have 0 in US service, nice straight grab. Nice to know you have to set the bar so low to try to prove a point.
>>29999157
>30 yeast is half a century ago
American "education". No, my dear fatnik, they attempted to made a shitty copy of the Object 477 and failed because contemporary electronics couldn't provide enough reliability for such a project. Unlike nowadays.
>>29999246
The electronics imported by Russia from South Korea and Taiwan are inferior to the electronics developed by Raytheon and GDLS, it's no fucking joke kiddo.
>>29999204
>Actually building an argument around a meatbag being more resilient than a machine
I hope you are joking. Autoloader doesn't care if it gets burnt. Nigger loader will squirm on the floor with half a face and concussion.
>>29999124
>None of that even matters. Hit to the turret will still disable T-14. Especially since turret won't be well armored.
Even manned turret tanks can get disabled taking hits as well. If you strip the shell out youd notice the true turret containing the gun and attendant systems are about the size of the mantlet of a manned turret tank, a bit bigger perhaps but extra volume is due to inert armor.
>>29999149
>Do you lack reading comprehension?
Ironic because we (as in me and other guy)were talking about backing up to park, perhaps you misquoted?
>>29999281
>Imported electronics on Armata
Lol.
>>29999124
>Especially since turret won't be well armored.
Because you say so?
>>29999302
>Also probably doesn't know Russian thermal imaging technology is either French, or backwards engineered French tech
Stay mad
>>29999322
>T-72B3 is the same as T-14 because reasons
Stay mad indeed.
>>29999299
>Even manned turret tanks can get disabled taking hits as well.
Setting aside that the T-14's turret is extremely easy to disable in comparison.
>>29999290
Right, now find me an actual Soviet munition that puts the loader at risk and your argument means something. The human loader is better. The manual operation of the turret is better. In the Armata if you blow a voltage regulator or fry a fuse it's fukt.
Abrams does not have this problem. This is yet another example of how 1.) The Abrams is better engineered 2.) The T14 is not ahead in the technology race, rather it's actually behind the West. Just not as much as the T90.
>>29999333
good digits
>>29999317
Because we have lots of close up pictures of the T-14's turret.
>>29999166
During yeltsin years maybe.
>>29999229
>Yeah and there are thousands of t72s littering the parallel from Africa to Ukraine.
The Russians made a tidy profit exporting their tanks across the planet,and so? If the Abrams had enjoyed but a fraction of that success wed see burned out hulks in the thousands too simply because theyd have bigger xhance of being in action ang getting killed.
>>29999359
Prepare for /b/ to swarm /k/ looking for the >30000000 get. You can go back to random now.
>>29999364
The Abrams is anything but lacking in the success department. If you want spout statistics the Abrams is 20 times more successful then the T series. Do you have a real argument yet?
>>29999384
>only /b/ cares about the numbers
>>29999413
Only /b/ and people who should be on /b/, yes
>>29999322
This is actually bad(or good or if you are a vatnik). In just a couple deals with the French they now have a stable production base for thermals with complete closed tech cycles, a mature design (fc) and access to qwip tech(xp). 16 years ago they had none of that, and wouldve been in trouble fighting at night but now they are up there behind the frogs in thermals
>>29999404
>T-series
REEEEEEEEE
>>29999356
>The human loader is better
Oh god, not this luddite shit again.
>In the Armata if you blow a voltage regulator or fry a fuse it's fukt.
No, it's partially disabled. Which is much less likely to happen than disabling a meatbag. You know what? Engines are unreliable too. Let's put 5 werbacks and pedal traction in the engine compartment instead.
>>29999362
>Actually confusing ballistic casing for turret armour
Are you le serious?
It's Russia. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this isn't some sort of play so that one of Putin's many freinds can buy the company for kopeks on the rouble.
>>29999404
20 times in what? The Soviets simply exported more tanks, period.
>>29999404
>The Abrams is anything but lacking in the success department.
The only combat record Abrams ever had before not so long ago is that couple occasions when Americans personally used it against sandniggers. As soon as it was implemented in somewhat symmetric warfare fried Abrams began to pop up here and there.
>If you want spout statistics the Abrams is 20 times more successful then the T series.
Top fucking kek. As a hangar queen maybe.
>>29999446
As stated before the T90 closed some of the gap between west and east. The T14 does the same thing, but in no way have they actually passed the west yet. Their technological advancement curve has continually plateau'd for the last 3 decades, for Christ sakes it's Russia, this isn't CCCP days anymore, they don't have money to fund such extravagant R&D advances and even less money to procure it. (See OPs post). Even if they go full china and try their best to rip off other countries technology, that still puts them 1 generation behind at any given moment until they develop their own technology.
>>29999481
>if I call it luddite I can hide my lack of an argument
If autoloaders actually outperformed human loaders, you would have a point.
>>29999481
>>29999481
Human loaders are faster.
Electronics are more fragile than humans. There are thousands of sub components inside tanks that reaknall the time. Humans are also easier to replace then equipment, in the rare event humans go down.
You are retarded, your low quality bait doesn't belong here.
>>29999527
>they don't have money to fund such extravagant R&D advances and even less money to procure it
OTOH they only have 1 beast to feed with brains and rubles.
Btw just for clarity's sake how can something with a lot more novelty be actually be behind? Cant wait for those mental gymnastics.
>>29999575
>thousands of sub components inside tanks that reaknall the time
Organics have trillions of sub-components and billions of those fugg up everyday- see what i did?
>>29999525
You can be fighting cavemen, the logistics, mission readiness, and fire power are still tested, it's not a qualitative static, it's given a mission and put to work, and it works. In Gulf war round 1s case, we killed targets at 2km+ consistently, with the hardest hitting apfsds's of the time. Given we still have the best kinetic round, it's no different, aside from Russia being a slightly greater risk to us. That's the only difference. Besides, Russian tanks have little experience at all.
>>29999481
>Actually confusing ballistic casing for turret armour
>Are you le serious?
Considering I was talking about the visible ~30mm steel plates, are you a retard or just bad at damage control?
>>29999569
Battleships.
>>29999593
But you're wrong. Machines require maintenance. Humans require food and water. Come on vatnick, step up your game. If machines are so reliable, why do we even need maintenance crews?
>>29999578
> a lot more novelty
I am waiting for someone to prove this still
>>29999598
Given that the goddamn Iranians managed to flank and surround entire Iraqi tank batallions with infantry i find that experience not so different from fighting goat fuckers in caves.
>>29997235
Gee, I wonder who is behind this bankruptcy...
Embrace it, Russia, you can't get rid of it.
>>29999645
Given that, Iraq BTFO Iran armor, I'd say you have no idea what you're talking about and grabbing at straws.
On that note, Iraq's army had more experience then everyone gave them credit for. They lost so bad against the coalition forces because of their technology being behind, not because they were bad. Random seldom related.
>>29999620
I know your healthcare system isnt up to snuff (its great at making pharmacompanies mad bux tho) but humans have maintenance personnel too in the form of healthcare providers like doctors, nurses, therapists etc. Whats more, major damage for humans means weeks even months of expensive hospital stay plus surgery and ggen there is permanent debuffs after that. Usually said human is reassigned though, or even worse early retirement. A machine otoh....
>>29999620
>humans don't require maintenance
Good, we should get rid of doctors since no one ever breaks!
>>29999662
>Iraq BTFO Iran armor
Yeah, i remember those same shitbox monkey models scrubbed western tanks of the same gen...
But seriously the iraqis are just that bad no question really.
They had an undisputable tech advantage iver daesh plus copious american support and yet they still got scrubbed. Syrians are no better though.
>>29999697
That's not relevant, you just replace the crew in the RARE event they go down. An entire battalions of tanks will rack up millions of dollars of replacement parts at a rate that Trump's your "muh fragile human" needs in healthcare.
So do you have an actual argument or are you going to continue to strangle this dead straw still? Please give me something to work with. Anything.
Doesnt say UVZ is filling for bancrupcy, its supposedly a bank pushing them into filling it in which case they get bailed out by the state so it doesn't matter either way so what the fuck is going on in this thread?
>>29999743
>That's not relevant, you just replace tank parts in the RARE event they go down. An entire battalions of crews will rack up billions of dollars of salaries, and benefits at a rate that Obama's your "muh fragile human" needs in healthcare.
>daily reminder majority of us defence budget goes into personnel costs.
The fuck. It feels like you are making vatnik talking points from the 80s. Holy in ersion.
>>29999785
Heavy T14 shilling
>>29999732
I wasn't aware that T-72's were the same 'generation' as Chieftains an M48's.
>>29999820
Most iraqi tanks were actually t-55s and t-62s. They only got t-72s in the middle of the war by then the iranian tank force is just a parking lot.
>>29999797
>Be inna Korea Stan
>Battalion spends 30 million some on repairing star wars tier SEPV2s through the entire rotation
>A couple people caught malaria
>Broken ankles
>Common colds a few times
>Broken hand
>Other minor injuries and illness
Yea that's more expensive lol, Y do we into humans at all, much exspenisve
Also >admin college and insurance costs are somehow relevant to tank operation costs
Gtfo learn2finance
>>29998587
>built 10 tanks
Is that supposed to be an achievement or something? Do you think a tank is as complex as a jet fighter or something? You're gloating like Russia built 10 aircraft carriers or something.
>>29999851
Sum up the salaries and benefits those extra couple dudes will recieve from the army for a lifetime.
>>29999851
>Also >admin college and insurance costs are somehow relevant to tank operation costs
For someone who always tells people to check their reading comprehension you sure do manage to contradict yourself everytime. Yes, other personnel costs are relevant - tanks are operated by personnel who incur those costs while doing their job. They aren't crewed by machine spirits as any of us know.
>>29999938
You're backpedaling. Thats good. >>29999801
More like gargantuan luddite hordes zerg rushing this thread. Every prolapsed rectum inflicted on them a fresh one pops up, eager for punishment.
>>29999246
>fatnik
Literally every time Russia gets mentioned on /k/ this exact same poster comes in posting this and furiously defending Russia. It's amazingly pathetic.
>>30000036
How am I backpedaling, you retarded subhuman?
>>29999938
There is 20+ tanks in the army eval batch and UVZ never stopped making them. There is videos on TV zveda channel where you can check them out being put together. There is a tank rolling out of the door every 40 hours IIRC so there should be quite a few of them already. I'm not sure if they actually started using that new assembly line or of they still make them in old hall
>>30000086
I know right?
It's pretty funny how ass anguished they are
>>29999958
>Extra couple dudes
You mean 1 dude.
Did you know the Abrams has a crew of 4 and the t14 has a crew of 3?
>Salary
>20,000 dollars x 14
>Still less than a single component replaced in tanks
>>30000127
>>30000186
What? What the hell? What did I say?
T-14 is a meme weapon now like the PAK-FA. There won't be more than 50 built.
>>30000186
>Mfw someone uses my OC
RIP in bits
She was too young.
She never even got to throw her turret.
>>29997526
T72 with sheet metal
>>30001590
That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Abrams" bullshit that's going on in /k/ right now. Armatas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.
I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine Armata in Russia for 2,400,000 Rubles (that's about $20.55) and have been driving it for almost 2 years now. I can even shoot through slabs of solid steel with my Armata.
Russian smiths spend years working on a single Armata and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest tanks known to mankind.
Armatas are thrice as accurate as European tanks and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a Leopard can shoot through, an Armata can shoot through better. I'm pretty sure an Armata could easily bisect an Abrams wearing full ERA with a simple snap shot.
Ever wonder why Europe never bothered conquering Russia? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Vatniks and their Armatas of destruction. Even in Syria, American soldiers targeted the men in Armatas first because their killing power was feared and respected.
>>30000123
>t. Ubermensche who cant even secure his wife and daughter from the unwashed brown muzzies and bbc.
You claimed initially they couldnt afford a,singular, tank. Lo and behold they put out at least 10 of them.
>>30000170
>silly shill doesn't realize this is all extra costs incurred on top.
The only component more expensive is the engine, maybe the thermal and gun itself.
>>30004139
>>30002477
>>30001590
>>30000372
Moans from recieving total ass devastation. I love it.
>>29997235
>Alfa-Bank's
R.I.P.
:D
>>30004533
Are you retarded or Russian or something? Russia can't afford to build T-14 in any significant numbers
>>30005038
>Russia can't afford to build T-14 in any significant numbers
[citation needed], Delusions don't count.
>>30005136
The order outlook is so low that the bank is now requesting the maker of Armata file for bankruptcy mid-production.
Khrunichev, maker of the Proton rockets is on the verge of bankruptcy and so is the company who makes the new IFVs.
All is not well with Russian industry right now. And unlike the 90s they cant rely on India and the ME to order thousands of tanks, IFVs, and combat aircraft to bail out their defence industries.
>>29999157
Shit was tested and developed in pretty much all NATO nation since the 60s.
They all moved away from it because the drawbacks aren't worth.
But I bet Russia found a way!
>>30002477
dae have a sneaking suspicion we're being lied to?
that turret bustle looks big enough to store ammo
i wouldn't put it past the slavs to have copied the Leclerc loader
Uralvagonzavod is a state company. State companies don't give a fuck about money. They are effectively government institutions. They can either bail them out or transfer the project to someone else. Plus, it's not the military side of the company that it's not making money, the loses come from the civilian business of the company. 2/3 of their output is civilian production.
http://www.janes.com/article/60030/uralvagonzavod-releases-2015-earnings
Military side of the company is doing fine. It's the civilian one that's losing them money.
>>30002477
What gets me are the tolerances on that sheet metal. How can you not get higher tolerances than 5mm on sheets that aren't even 1m long ?
>>30006416
if there is ONE thing that russian engineers know how to do better than the West, it is leaving good enough well the fuck alone.
look at the design tolerances on the AK-74.
the fuck does it matter? it's only sheet metal to protect from shrapnel, it's a tank not a mechanical chronometer
>>29998423
That was the WWII Sherman retrofitted with a modern Cummings diesel engine and a 105mm gun. The Israelis called it the M51 and used it until 73 in front line units. It could pop T55s like soap bubbles and was effective against the T62.
>>29998457
He was confusing the Sherman for the Sherridan. Which is worse really. Soviet tanks were getting taken out by WWII relics.
Of course, that's not entirely fair either. The Israelis recovered a number of T55s, replaced the Soviet engines with Continental Teledyne diesel engines and a French 105mm cannon with modern optics, called them the Titan, and proceeded to fuck up T72s with them.
>>29997235
Wow, Uralvagonzavod is going under huh? Isn't that like Russia's main tank factory too? Where the T-72 was mass produced and I believe the 62 and 55? That factory has a lot of history to it for Russia, shame it's doing so bad now.
>>30006665
It's a state company. Nothing is going under unless the Kremlin wants it.
>>29997235
A shame really. T-14 Armata was a cool concept.
What people on /k/ don't seem to be able to do is distinguish the difference between weapon concepts and actual weapons. We don't know anything about T-14 capabilities on an actual battlefield but as a concept it represents a leap in tank design.
Ofcourse new and revolutionary is going to be expensive to produce and Russia isn't exactly known for it's economic and industrial capabilities when it comes to high tech products.
>>30006693
When state companies file for bankruptcy there is always something else at play. Either they are trying to force the government to refund them or government is trying to absolve them, sell them or fuse them to another company.
>>30006548
Tolerances are functional though, and a good indicator of the capabilities of an industry. Russians don't just "leave good enough well the fuck alone", they are forced to because doing better becomes extremely expensive for them in comparison. And that's supposing they don't have other struggles like large percentages of wasted parts and so on. It also isn't a good thing for whoever is trying to assemble the tank.
Though I'll admit that some western industries did struggle to compete with the japanese exactly due to too high non-functional tolerances (obviously very simplistic).
>>30006739
> a good indicator of the capabilities of an industry
you're right of course.
> don't just
again, right. stuff still comes out cheaper, for comparable performance. mostly.
> obviously very simplistic
yeah a mongolian basket-weaving club isn't the place for in-depth analysis
pic unrelated... what does it hold in its bustlesses, precioussss?
>>29997235
Isn't that all like 1/2 of Russia's ability to build armor going under?
>>30006826
State companies dont work like that.
I pitty Russia that they can't into tanks anymore.
>>30006739
Wasn't the SU forced to import CNC machines and stuff through the grey market to improve their production quality at some point?
>>30007068
There was a short time between the end of the WWII and the introduction of the Second Gen where they were leading.
Everything after that was subpar.
>>30006699
As a concept...the USA did it 30 years ago.
>>30006548
Broscience, ho!
>>29997235
>https://meduza.io
discarded
>>30006209
Nobody is listening. Its detrimental to muh freedom
Sell it to China. They'll be glad to buy every company from their deathbed.
>>30006699
What about it is innovative? What about it hasn't been done before?
Just spell it out for me
>>30006209
/n/ here, that's a pretty awful tram
This 'news' reminds me of the time everyone was convinced that russian cruise missiles fired from the caspian sea hit iran.
Ofcourse to avoid being called shills, nobody asked proof, because there wasnt any and everyone forgot.
/k/ was very dedicated on calling the vatniks butthurt for it but everyone went silent on it soon.
Until the tank kills people and survives a TOW hit, we know nothing about it.
>>29998765
>The hull isn't the rarest thing hit in the battle, but the overwhelming majority of hits hit the front of the turret as evidenced by, well, now it's almost century of using tanks in combat.
Yes and no. Depends.
>>30007730
proofs?
>>29998931
>They have a couple of cameras dotting the perimtrr of the turret offering a stitched together 360 degree panoramic view.
They are no near close to human eye resolution. Not like with modern technologies you can't be close but this is not T-14 or other AFVs case.
this is the best tank in the world
>>30008127
Indeed
>Russia makes cool new tank/plane
>Cant into production because poor fag
>Brass in NATO scare monger public
>10,000 next gen Supertankjets are ordered
>Rinse and repeat
It's like you guys want this.
>>30008162
And the gap between NATO and Russia gets bigger once again.
>>29998878
AN94 was a jamomatic.
>>30008176
No, because it goes overbudget and takes 20 years to finish.
>>30007618
look for the batman tram senpai.
>>30005212
>The order outlook is so low that the bank is now requesting the maker of Armata file for bankruptcy mid-production.
The order books are thin for now, since there is no point in churning them out as fast as you can when you haven't even finished testing them yet (they just entered the 2-year army testing period). Its all very new technology, with very high developmental risks and is a whole new beast compared to what they are used to. Won't be surprised if it only replaces all the active MBTs by 2030 at the latest really, which is good since the West would just be churning out their own 4th gen MBT by then.
>>30005212
>All is not well with Russian industry right now.
Industrial outputs around the planet are down for quite some time now*(even China ffs), they are nothing special in that regard.
>>30006091
>i wouldn't put it past the slavs to have copied the Leclerc loader
They did, its called the Black Eagle upgrade for the T-80. And they rejected it, citing among others, vulnerability to DPICM munitions.
>>30006658
>Titan
Its Tiran you dumb schmuck
>>30007088
For most of the cold war the premier and most numerous eurotank was the Leo 1, a POS with literal wet tp for armor(M72s can pen its hull like there's no tomorrow lol). The Chieftain with its vaunted maximum armor is actually vulnerable to 125 mm HEAT. The M48/60 were pretty meh as well.
>>30008127
Not really. Shoot the right side of the hull(facing you) with sabots that have at least 700 mm RHA penetration and its a viking funeral for Hans. Un-isolated ammo is really just asking to be blown to pieces.
>>30008398
Armor wasn't relevant at that time.
It was all about getting the highest operational mobility. And the Leopard 1 was in a league on its own.
Most soviet tanks didn't even have any night battle capacities until the very end of the Cold War.
A war would have been such a clusterfuck for them.
>>30007088
dunno, T-72 is a small target & in terrain where the Western MBTs such as Leopard 2 and Abrams can't take advantage of their better range the field is more level than one would think after seeing the Iraqi tanks raped during Desert Storm and then Iraqi Freedom...
>>30008472
yeah sure, those IR -lamps on T-55s were decorations...
>>29999593
Not address the point?
>>30006658
>Soviet tanks were getting taken out by WWII relics
You are aware that these relics can fuck up tigers and panthers from the front regardless of range? Something which true world war 2 relics can not?
>>30008510
>IR lamps
>against a modern enemy
Might as well fit a massive 20 foot neon sign saying "I'm a tank, plz fuck my face" to the top of the tank.
IR lamps are more for night driving, not for night combat.
>>30008749
I'd say HE from a Soviet 152mm howitzer on a KV-2, SU-152 or ISU-152 would also ruin a Tiger commander's day just fine (sure you can't hit the side of a barn with one from distance, but if you *do* get a lucky hit on a Tiger it's toast.
>>30008510
you said that Soviets didn't have night-fighting capabilities during Cold War, and now it's suddenly a discussion about T-55 vs. modern tanks? Make up your mind will you
>>30008782
see
>>30008806
I haven't finished even one glass of Red Devil & vodka and I am already making stupid mistakes...
>>30008795
122mm AP was enough for anything short of Tiger II's front
>>30008795
Well yeah if you start using SPG and alike for anti armor duty but those things can fuck any tank regardless of age due to their raw power.
A M1A2 abram would be fucked up.
A T-14 would be fucked up.
Only a M1A9SEP V99 would not get fucked up.
>>30008859
and we were talking about the front, 152mm HE would have been enough to at least cause nice amount of spalling, if not punched a nice hole and used the steel that sued to be where the hole appeared as shrapnel, Porsche Tiger might have been a different story but the tanks discussed were a regular Tiger and Panther...
>>30008880
technically KV-2 was a heavy tank instead of an SPG, sure it was intended for the same role SU-152 and ISU-152 were intended for (bunker busting, among other things, a 152mm used in direct fire -mode doesn't lack potential applications...) but never the less it was a tank
>>29997818
>Yeah. Because sticking your head out and scanning the periphery with Mk 1 eyeballs is ever the way forward.
Instead you're giving up things the M1 has like the commander's independent thermal viewer, that lets a crew scan for the next target while actively engaging the current one, then auto-slew the turret to the new target.
>>29997630
>complaining about anime on 4chan
>>30009315
Most anime is moe garbage, though
>>30009357
you called?
>>29997235
This fatnik thread.
Uralvagonzavod will never go bankrupt because they made the greatest tank on planet earth.
>>30007834
I hate to admit it but if there are any i would break it to them long time ago
SLAVABOOS ON SUICIDE WATCH
