https://news.usni.org/2016/05/11/marines-to-add-harvest-hawk-weapons-package-to-entire-c-130j-v-22-fleets
>Lt. Gen. Jon Davis said the Marines’ next aviation plan would include upgrading all 79 C-130Js into Harvest Hawk-capable platforms. The Hercules Airborne Weapons Kit (HAWK) includes both modifications to the plane – the installation of a new MX-20 sensor ball with a laser designator on the nose of the plane, and the Intrepid Tiger electronic warfare pod – as well as a supply of Hellfire, Griffin and Viper Strike missiles for precision strike. The Intrepid Tiger pod is already installed on the AV-8B Harriers and F/A-18 Hornets, and the Marine Corps intends to put the pod on the C-130Js, V-22s and H-1 attack helicopters. Davis said the pod is a “great capability, gives us a jamming capability, an electronic warfare capability for not only [self]-protection but more importantly that people on the ground can manipulate and operate. It’s open architecture so they can control the weapon system from the ground.”
Have they gone mad?
More dakka is always the sane option.
>Muhreens only have 31% of their F-18A/B/Cs ready for combat
>Spending money on this shit
Yep that's USMC logic
>>29933136
Sounds reasonable to me; their tankers are C-130Js; this is just talking about adding some sensors, countermeasures and minor structural modification to the plane, allowing them to swap out the roll-on fuel tanks with roll-on missile / bomb pods.
daily reminder
>After the bureaucratic infighting that characterized inter-service relations during WW II, there was a strong desire among military professionals to unify the military commands. President Truman agreed, and in 1946 his administration proposed a bill to unify the separate service bureaucracies.
>The Navy and Marine Corps were determined to scuttle this legislation. Marine generals created a secret office code named the Chowder Society to lobby behind the scenes, (in opposition to their President and Commander in Chief), and thwart the unification bill before Congress. The Commandant of the Marine Corps even made an impassioned speech before Congress to plead for his separate service.
>It worked. Congress rejected the Truman administration’s unification bill, and instead passed the National Security Act of 1947. This Act guaranteed separate services, with their own independent budgets, and was a victory for the Navy and Marine Corps.
>In addition, the Marines succeeded in having their separate force structure written into the language of the legislation. It is very unusual for Congress to dictate the actual composition of a military service. Yet the National Security Act mandates that the Marines Corps must maintain “not less than three combat divisions and three aircraft wings and such land combat, aviation, and other services as necessary to support them“.
>President Truman was furious, and military professionals were appalled. General Eisenhower characterized the Marines as “being so unsure of their value to their country that they insisted on writing into the law a complete set of rules and specifications for their future operations and duties. Such freezing of detail…is silly, even vicious.”
>>29933298
Link?
>>29933136
>Marine want to convert every single tanker into a gunship
No, they want to alter them so they could be converted into a gunship easily if needed.
I guess they want to make them modular.
>>29933136
Look at it this way- you've got a tanker, right? However, the thing has a lot of loiter time. If it's not being used as a tanker, why can't it be used for other things in a low threat environment? Why couldn't it use sensors to conduct route reconnaissance? Why couldn't it carry weapons? It's not like they'll be doing this in the face of SAMs. It's a fairly good idea to make the most out of a limited set of resources.
>>29933136
>Needs transports to do the shooting g because escorts are falling apart
The marines are literally Somalia tier
>>29933136
>>29933151
>marines need to waste money keeping their Hornet fleet at a high readiness while F-35's are phased in
>>29933541
>adding capability is bad
>>29933298
Marines are such useless piece of shits
>>29933136
that's what the wehrmacht did when the times became worse.
can it drive?
yes?
mount a PAK on it.
>>29934408
They could do that by fixing their Hornets
>>29937076
>>29934297
No, throwing more money at their old Hornets is not the same as allowing their tankers to be gunships when not needed as tankers.
>>29933136
>MX-20 sensor ball
Fucking gross
I honestly think USMC has no idea what do do with themselves. It's like they're trying to become another air force except smaller and shittier.
They need to focus in amphibious assault, something we literally cannot do right now.
>>29937890
Oh, its the anon who thinks you can only do amphibious operations with landing ships and heavily armored escorts.
>>29937890
They should have been folded in to the Army and Navy after WWII, with a few actual shipboard Marines for special operations junk.
>>29937890
You can't do an amphibious assault against China without a shitload of air-power covering you.
>>29933136
As a seperate military, how does the Marines stack up against other nations in terms of military power?
>>29938039
Pretty well. The USMC could hold out against the entire British military in a no nukes scenario.
>>29937922
Which is why we have an air force.
>>29938059
It is also why the Marines have planes.
>>29938059
If you expect the Air Force to be able to fly fighters over China you're nuts.
>>29933136
god fucking dammit marines.
this is so fucking great, holy shit.
I mean, I know marines are retards with no concept of logistics and just want to kill shit, but this is like, curtis lemay tier.
>>29938190
>Implying China can do shit to F-22 or F-35
>>29938209
>Implying China can do shit to F-22 or F-35
Don't have to do much against a plane that can't even make it off the ground.
Sounds like the JSF hit another turd block and the Marines just turned everything into CAS. haha will be much cheaper also.
>>29937922
>amphibious assault against China
what?
by then the nukes would have already been launched
>>29933151
Well it's not like throwing money at the F-18 fleet is going to help. The problem is there are a billion ultra-high hour aircraft and no new ones to replace them with something that a little bit of money diverted from another program is going to fix.
>>29933136
They haven't gone mad, they're just trying to waste as much of their budget as they can before the feds ask them to give back the unused portion.
>>29938206
You can always tell when an autist does not comprehend something.
>>29937911
Maybe, using the force employment of last century.
Nowadays, the marines is just a smaller scale, self sufficant (warfighting, not logistics) redundant force, that is basically on world QRF duty.
There is NOTHING wrong with redundancy, especially if you are the world police.
>>29938289
So? You still gotta seize those beaches!
>>29938209
The problem is range, numbnuts. Where are these fighters taking off from?
>>29938698
>What is in air refueling
>What are aircraft carriers
>What are overseas airfields
If you actually believe the US has any problem with force projection whatsoever you are retarded.
>>29938374
>There is NOTHING wrong with redundancy, especially if you are the world police.
President Harry Truman once stated that Marines; “Have a propaganda machine that is almost equal to Stalin’s.” The Marines have always advertised themselves, but in Truman’s day, they at least had something to sell. The original raison d’etre of the USMC was their ability to carry out amphibious landings on hostile beaches.
The truth is, the US Army conducted the biggest amphibious assault in our nation’s history when they captured the Normandy beaches. And neither the Army or the Marines have assaulted an enemy held beach since the Korean war, over fifty years ago. In every subsequent conflict Soldiers and Marines have fought in the same way, using similar equipment and tactics.
The Marines are in fact a second Army, and since they compete with the Army for funds, missions, and prestige, their real enemy is… the US Army.
However, the Marine Corps has an unfair advantage in this competition. Since the end of Desert Storm the US Army has been downsized by one third, losing over 200,000 troops and eight combat divisions. By Contrast the Marines have lost only twenty thousand personnel. The reason is the National Security Act of 1947, which prevents any changes in the force structure of the Marines.
Today’s United States Marine Corps is only slightly larger than the US Army in Iraq. That war is stretching our Army to the breaking point. The obvious solution is to merge the Army and Marine corps into one service.
The savings would add up to tens of billions of dollars when their training, logistics, administration, and headquarters were merged. The personnel shortages that are now crippling both services would disappear. And so would the rivalry between the Army and the Marine Corps.
>>29938698
With all the aircraft carriers and tankers the DOD has, wherever the US damn well pleases.
>>29938698
>Where are these fighters taking off from?
>>29938068
No, the Marines have planes because their cannons and artillery can't keep pace with them, especially if they're trying to secure a beach head.
Can they're harriers and hornets put up somewhat of a fight against enemy air? yeah, probably, BUT their main role is to act as flying artillery until their actual gun batteries can be set in.
>>29938764
I agree.
>>29938764
Can their*
pardon my typo.
>>29938190
But the Marines somehow can?
>>29938738
>That war is stretching our Army to the breaking point.
Wew lad.
The USMC's ÆTNA MACRO III program is pretty high tech
>>29938738
>The savings would add up to tens of billions of dollars when their training, logistics, administration, and headquarters were merged.
And would lose the advantages of having two distinct fighting forces under two admins. The advantages of such a force is huge.
And your crap about personnel shortfalls is just that, crap. The US army was never at a "breaking point" in OIF, even during the surge. I hope that was hyperbole.
>>29938833
>And would lose the advantages of having two distinct fighting forces under two admins. The advantages of such a force is huge.
What advantage would we lose?
>>29938833
>And would lose the advantages of having two distinct fighting forces under two admins
Yeah I'm with the poster above me, what fucking advantages are you talking about other than the obvious size factor?
>>29938833
Less bureaucracy seems like a good thing.
America needs a Marine Corps but it doesn't need to be its own branch. You could split it up between the Navy and Army, with the Navy using the extra $$$ they get from it to maintain a small force specifically for amphibious assault. Basically like the USMC, but smaller, and more focused on its core mission.
>>29938871
>>29938883
For one, being completely removed from the bulk of logistics chain, other than tactical means you have more shooters (soilder, armored, air) than a typical force.
Then, you have divergence in tactics and doctrine, which makes the enemy work that much harder to come up with effective counter tactics.
Furthermore, the marines have a penchant for using legacy equpment by in large, which isolates it from possible shortfalls in newer equipement. Said equipement is proven, the chance of the "fatal flaw" is far lower. Now, this is a double edged sword as they lose possible advantages, of course.
Furthermore, with a different branch you have different (even if its slighty redundant) procurement needs for marine applications. This leads to more force variantion without to much logistic strain due to size and self sufficantcy. Viper and Venom programs are good examples of this, Osprey program (even with AF/Navy overlap), too. (no osprey memes please, they have been disproven time and time again).
It needs to be said that while the marines are not primarily anfib operations anymore (even though they are still very capable in this regard), their modern primary role is world QRF. There are certain vehicle applications that need to serve this (high range air assult platforms, anfib) and while you could combine with army in this regard, it would have to compete with big army projects.
Finally, espirt de corps cannot be understated. Kind of hard to recruit for marines that are not marines.
>>29938698
>>29938730
>>29938742
We're talking Air Force here, ya schmucks. Not Navy. No carriers. As for tankers being able to handle the volume of fighters necessary to contest Chinese air superiority, good luck. Tankers are not the solution for that problem. You need carriers.
>Marines become assimilated by the Army
>Army disbands all but 1 Mar Div.
>Standards drop like a motherfucker
>Marine training sites shut down, recruits processed through Army channels
>"Marine" tab/badge created for Soldiers that go through Marine School
>"Marine" becomes an offensive term because no one knows if it's masculine or feminine
>Remaining Marine Division becomes 9th Infantry Division(Amphibious)
>US Marine Corps completely lost in the sands of history as a once proud fighting force
>>29938943
The marines are far less top heavy compared to its size than the army, with far less "paper pushers".
If you split up marine dutys you have said dutys now competeing against navy/army projects. Marines still have a needed job, a niche, that still needs to be filled.
You wont save all that much, and lose the redundancy aspects.
>>29938800
Considering they'd actually have the range to possibly do it, yes.
>>29939030
Marine squadrons are on navy vessels you crazy faggot.
>>29939032
Sounds good make it happen.
>>29938943
>Basically like the USMC, but smaller, and more focused on its core mission.
But that gets rid of the point of the larger USMC, namedly that with it we actually have the capability to put division sized forces on shore in a day, as well as having far larger organic combined arms. The Army could theoretically do it, but the USMC is specialized for it, and still has plenty of capability once ashore.
>>29939045
They have the navy doing their paper pushing fairly often.
>>29939062
You might want to get your brain checked for reading comprehension skills.
>>29939046
And the AF doesn't? Because midair refueling is a thing so are the air bases in korea and japan.
>>29939097
EXACTLY. There is tons of overlap from what the navy needs and marine needs. Let the navy handle it.
>>29939107
F-35 is a navy and marine craft, you crazy faggot.
>>29939087
>The Army could theoretically do it
The Army pulled off the biggest amphibious assault in world history.
>>29933136
hardly surprising from the dumbshits who spend $3k a pop on an antiquated handgun that lasts 15k rounds before it cracks
>>29939153
And the marines handled the biggest marine campaign in history.
Marines can do army stuff too, does not make the army obsolete.
>>29939132
And a downsize to about 20% of the current force for ship security and the rest being folded into the army changes that the marines and the army have a huge overlap also?
>>29939132
There is indeed that overlap in terms of need when comparing the Navy and the Marines, we just don't need the USMC to act as Army 2.0 to keep that niche filled. There's no reason for the USMC to act as anything more than specialized naval infantry, which hasn't been the case for half a century.
Either merge the Army and USMC(Army 2.0, really) or return the Marines to their former status as literal boat soldiers.
>>29939170
Please, tell me you're referencing the Pacific campaign so I can tell you how wrong you are.
>>29933136
>"Our drones will blot out the sun!"
>>29939170
>And the marines handled the biggest marine campaign in history, with help from the Army.
ftfy
>>29939170
It just seems like there is a lot of redundancy in the system that could be cleaned up. For example, why do the Marines need jet fighters if the Army is fine using just helicopters?
>>29939215
>>29939170
>And the Marines wasted thousands of good men charging headfirst onto strategically unimportant islands while the Army handled the majority of the Japanese Imperial Army, while at the same time having more divisions assaulting Okinawa than the muhreens
ftfby
>>29939193
Marine naval applications go way beyond ship security, ship to shore (both air and sea) and sea based QRF forces.
>BUT DA ARMY CAN DO THAT
So you will create special units with special equipment and doctrine, replaceing marine overhead of said divisons with army overhead (most likey the same damn people).
How much are you actually saving?
The marines DO have a job, you know. You cant just delete the shooters.
If the Marines are independent and all that, why are all of their ships Navy?
>>29939284
Because they're a department of the Navy
>>29939194
They dont, where did this meme come from.
The only *army* job they do is QRF, the rest is ship to shore and naval aviation (which also assited army units heavily)
>>BUT MUH OIF!
Everyone got in on that gangbang, the fucking coast guard did. The fucking DEA did too.
Who cares if they sent a few ground pounders there to stay sharp?
>>29939302
Then why are they treated as a separate branch of the military if they are part of the Navy.
>>29939338
because they are the president's private militia
>>29939338
Are you talking joint cheifs?
Marines have special snowflake powers.
>>29939271
I agree. The bureaucracy is just too entrenched. It is too late to fix it. Doesn't change the fact that we could have gotten better results if the forces had merged in 1947.
>>29939338
They have the funding, the advertisement, and the literal legislation of law behind them to keep them large enough and powerful enough to act as
>>29939350
something to do with Mr. President not needing congressional authority to send, essentially, a tiny army into or near a foreign nation.
>>29939338
because their culture is important for conflicts like iraq and afghanistan
>>29939370
Its not the bureaucracy anymore (as it was then) modern marines found a pretty big niche to fill, its senseless to go though the effort for little to no fiscal saveings.
>>29939401
Heavyhanded dealing with civilians that drives more Iraqis into the arms of the various insurgent groups?
>>29939401
>implying the Army can't piss on dead hajj and let the photos leak just as good
Useless against Taiwanese robots
>>29939401
When George Bush the Second launched his misguided invasion of Iraq, the Marines were once again included, and this time the goal was Baghdad. The invasion, which began on March 20th, 2003, called for a two pronged assault on Baghdad. The Army’s 5th Corps would advance from the desert west of the Euphrates river, while the First Marine division was ordered to cross the Euphrates and make a parallel advance through central Iraq.
The invasion did not go well for the Marines. In several cities, including Umm al Qasr and Nasiriya, their units suffered heavy casualties fighting remnants of the Iraqi Army and fedayeen guerrillas. Since the Marines had fewer armored vehicles, and they were exposed to a more tenacious enemy, their progress was slower than the Army’s.
Major General Mattis, the commanding general of the Marines in Iraq, was not pleased. He repeatedly pressured his regiments to make greater speed, and this pressure grew more intense as the Marines lagged further behind Army units. On the morning of April 3rd, the First Marine Regiment, commanded by Colonel Dowdy, was ordered to drive to the town of al-Kut.
The city was another choke point, where Iraqi fedayeen guerrillas could ambush Marine convoys in city streets. As soon as his Marines reached the city, they began taking fire. Colonel Dowdy could not forget the mauling another regiment had received in Nasiriya, where 17 Marines were killed and another seventy were wounded.
He had to make a choice. His orders were to proceed to al-Kut, but the decision to push through or bypass the town was up to him. However, Colonel Dowdy was receiving mixed signals from his superiors. According to him “there was a lot of confusion”, some officers were recommending an attack, others urged withdrawal.
>>29939524
Colonel Dowdy decided to bypass al-Kut. His regiment would take an alternative route to Baghdad that was safer, but the detour of 170 miles meant that the Marines fell further behind schedule. Colonel Dowdy‘s superiors were furious with his decision.
After the withdrawal from al-Kut, General Mattis and other staff officers let the Colonel know that his regiment was to make greater speed. That night on the road to Baghdad, vehicles of the First Marine Regiment were ordered to drive the highways of Iraq with their headlights on, irregardless of security. But their progress was not good enough, the Army‘s Fifth Corps had already reached Baghdad.
Colonel Joe Dowdy was relieved of his command the following day. The Marine Corps will never admit it, but he was fired because he failed to carry out the Corps most important mission in Iraq: Colonel Dowdy failed to upstage the US Army by being the first to reach Baghdad.
The Marines would return to Iraq one year later, when the First Marine Expeditionary Force assumed responsibility for Al Anbar province, which includes the city of Fallujah.
>>29939536
During the change of command ceremony Lt. Gen. James T. Conway of the I MEF proclaimed that; “Although Marines don’t normally do nation-building, they will tell you that once given the mission, nobody can do it better.” The Marines took control of the area from the U.S. Army’s 82nd Airborne Division, and they made no secret of their distain for the Army’s strategy in Iraq.
Before deploying, General Conway had told the New York Times “I don’t envision using that tactic“, when asked about Army troops using air strikes against the insurgents. “I don’t want to condemn what [Army] people are doing. I think that they are doing what they think they have to do.”
On March 30th, General Conway told a reporter that “There’s no place in our area of operation that we won’t go, and we have taken some casualties in the early going making that point“. The next day four civilian contractors were killed and mutilated in Fallujah, and five Marines also lost their lives. The Marines sealed off the city and attempted to reassert control over Fallujah, but the insurgents proved to be more determined than expected.
When their patrols came under heavy fire the lightly armed Marines had only two choices; Fight it out with the insurgents on foot, or call in artillery and air strikes. The inevitable result was scores of Marines killed or wounded, and hundreds of civilian casualties. The world was appalled by the carnage in Fallujah, and the Marines were called off.
While Marines were fighting in Fallujah, the US Army was heavily engaged against militiamen loyal to Muqtata al-Sadr in cities throughout Iraq. But in contrast to the Marine’s failure to recapture Fallujah, the US Army’s heavy armored vehicles could enter hostile cities with impunity. They brought al-Sadr to heel after two months of fighting, while suffering relatively few casualties.
>>29939553
An uneasy truce was made between the US Army and al-Sadr’s militia, that would last until the Marines again became involved. On July 31st 2004, the 11th Marine Expeditionary Unit replaced Army units in the holy city of Najaf, headquarters of Muqtata al-Sadr. Just five days later, al-Sadr’s militia would again be waging open war against the US, and the Marines would be calling for reinforcements.
The Marines began skirmishing with al-Sadr’s militiamen as soon as they were given responsibility for Najaf. After the uprising in April, US Army units had avoided driving past al-Sadr’s house as part of the informal truce, but this would not do for the Marines. The second Shia uprising began after Marines in Najaf provoked al-Sadr by driving their patrols right up to his stronghold.
A firefight ensued, and al-Sadr’s militiamen took up arms in cities throughout Iraq in a replay of the uprising in April. The Marines had not just picked a fight with Muqtada in Najaf, they had engaged his militia in an ancient cemetery that abutted the Imam Ali Mosque, Shiite Islam’s holiest shrine. And they did this without informing the Army chain of command, or the Iraqi government.
According to Maj. David Holahan, second in command of the Marine unit in Najaf, “We just did it”. But in a replay of the Fallujah assault, the Marines faced an enemy that they were not prepared for. Within hours of launching their attack on August 5th, the Marines were pinned down, and requesting assistance.
Unfortunately for the Marines, their rash attack on al-Sadr’s headquarters had sparked another revolt by his militiamen. Army units were once again fighting the Mahdi army in cities throughout Iraq. When the Army’s Fifth Cavalry Regiment received orders to reinforce the beleaguered Marines, they were deployed against al-Sadr’s militia in the outskirts of Bagdhad, 120 miles away.
>>29939571
The Fifth Cavalry arrived in Najaf after a two day drive through insurgent controlled territory. By then any opportunity to capture al-Sadr had been lost, because the press, and the Islamic world, were focused on the Imam Ali Mosque and the adjacent cemetery. Any attack on Shiite Islam’s holiest shrine, where Muqtata al-Sadr was holed up, would have had disastrous consequences for the US war effort.
In Fallujah and Najaf, inexperienced Marine units picked fights with insurgents, and in both cases ended up handing the enemy a strategic victory. Their failure to recapture Fallujah made the city a rallying cry for Islamic militarism worldwide, (that is until the second US assault rendered Fallujah uninhabitable). The Marine’s botched attempt to capture Muqtata al-Sadr has only strengthened his hand.
Today there are 23,000 Marines in Iraq, out of a total 138,000 U.S. Armed Forces personnel. Marines are 17 percent of our total force, yet they have suffered 29 percent of all U.S. casualties; 530 of the more than 1,820 U.S. service personnel killed in Iraq. The Marine’s aggressive tactics combined with a lack of armored firepower has proven lethal, their bravery notwithstanding.
>>29933136
>It’s open architecture so they can control the weapon system from the ground.
Call of Duty meme magic.
>>29939524
WHAO nigger, marines took Al Kut.
They dropped a metric fuckton of paveways on the place, took it, and drove to bagdad.
Where are you getting this info, wonkas world?
>>29939597
They control the jammer from the ground, i.e. "JESUS FUCK STOP JAMMING MY COMMS" *press button* "FUCKING ASSHOLE" *flips off osprey pilot*
>>29938227
T.salty warthog
>>29939646
I could see that.
>>29934297
>all fucking 10 of them a year
>>29933136
>51% combat readiness rate across marine aircraft
>lets make our SAM-bait extra cool!
>>29939582
>Their failure to recapture Fallujah
The 2nd battle? The one led by marines?
They failed? Again, what kind of fucking alt history are you reading? This is some turtledove type shit.
>>29939692
The C-130J?
Wut
>>29939515
The Taiwanese are truly the most powerful race on earth.
>>29939524
>>29939536
yeah man, i saw Generation Kill too.
>>29938190
Not just the airforce, but also Naval avaiation AND Army aviation AND Marine corp aviation
Its kinda absurd that we have the Air Force, but then each branch has its own aviation unit as well
like i understand the Navy has its carrier based shit but why cant the marines, who are navy dependent, just use naval aviation instead of having their own bullshit
>>29939616
>>29939726
>>29939784
yeah, this anon sounds like he's full of shit, and he's not even providing a source for this alt history
>>29939170
Pop quiz:
How many Marine divisions were deployed in the Pacific?
How many Army Divisions were deployed in the Pacific?
>>29939823
>just use naval aviation instead of having their own bullshit
The idea is the naval fighters protect the fleet, the marine fighters protect the marines.
>>29939833
Well i mean, when the actual history is a google search away, its not hard to disprove. I mean, the al-kut thing triggered me, but its easily found.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Al_Kut_(2003)
>>29933136
The only problem with the Marines is that they are underfunded. Their ambitions are too great for what their budget allows. Between the Osprey, F-35, and now this, it is pretty clear that they want to make Halo real.
>>29939536
>irregardless
The biggest reason why it's a good thing the Marines are still around is that their propaganda arm and their rivalry with the Army has ensured that they will not accept lowering the standards to let women into combat roles. There's a reason why women are having a harder time passing the Marine Infantry Officers course than Ranger School.
And it isn't because it's harder to be a Marine Officer than it is to earn a tab...
>>29940273
You remind me of yourself, who hasn't been a Marine Officer or earned a tab.
>>29940314
smoothly destroyed.
>meanwhile in the Infantry, Tanks and Tracks
>no money for training or maintenance
>marines have nothing to do, incidents are through the roof
>marines being worked to death, have to maintain pieces of shit with duct tape and bubble gun
Shieeeeeeeeeeeet
>>29940437
I thought the marines were the most well equipped infantry.
>>29938323
I'd rather they just spend it on IARs. And working SAWS.
>>29938039
They are slightly larger than the entire Canadian Armed Forces.
>>29940636
Nope. Funny really
>>29933136
My only question:
Will there be a variant with two forward facing howlitzer cannon or a pair of A-10 Vulcans for hilariously deadly dive bomb strafing runs?
>>29939737
F-35B
>>29933471
Omni mech clan technology on a tanker?
Dishonorable.
>>29937890
How about amphibious planes?
Giant troop transport planes that land on the water?
>>29933298
>>29933455
Seconded, source please. Idiocy of this magnitude must be documented.
>>29933136
Personally I feel like the airforce needs to be disbanded or simply renamed US Missile Command and just focus on anti nuke and nuke missile duty while the Army and Marine corps and Navy have their Corps of fighters, bombers and transports.
Maybe the Airforve can be progressive and call themselves US Space or Orbital Defense force and treat nukes from enemy countries as extraterrestial threats since the rockets have to go in high orbit.
>>29939524
>mauling another regiment had received in Nasiriya, where 17 Marines were killed and another seventy were wounded.
>mauling
>17 Marines were killed and another seventy were wounded
87 casualties out of a regiment of ~2000 men? That doesn't sound too bad.
>>29934297
>The F/A-18D/E is the only Forward Air Controller during strike and landing operations.
>>29939524
>>29939536
17 fatalities out of an entire fucking regiment is exactly fuck all. each one of those constituent battalions was at least 1000 men.
it was a 5000 man combat team with armor and air support, fighting a war and he got anxious because he had 17 men killed.
he was relieved of command because he blinked.
>>29939864
But if an actual war happens we will have multiple carriers operating together.
I mean not like we train for this or anything but that's obviously how it has to happen.
USMC is the Schutzstaffel/Republican Guard of America
>>29938698
>>29939030
We have air force bases in Japan and South Korea you doofuses.
>>29939515
Why the fuck would you swoop in low like that when you can pepper it while orbiting from long range.
>>29941492
The big robots can manipulate gravity, its how they stand without collapsing under their own weight, and thus deflect long range shots.
>>29939390
>something to do with Mr. President not needing congressional authority to send, essentially, a tiny army into or near a foreign nation.
If there were a civil war, say the president on one side, and the pentagon on another, would the Marines side with the president?
>>29939144
I'm going to suggest you go over what was said again, you idiot.
>>29942427
No, the Americans driving the plane is just not good at aiming.
>>29939259
Already cleared this up earlier in the thread, now I'm going to go full retard into it so you all can learn something; The Marines do not have fighter jets. They have attack aircraft. They're aircraft CAN defend themselves like fighters but that is not their main purpose. By doctrine, the Marines would be moving too fast for their artillery to actually set up in a beach head situation, so they have Harriers and Hornets to utilize as flying artillery until the advance slows enough for their field artillery to set in to provide constant fire support.
The Army settles for having just helicopters because the Air Force is suppose to conduct the duties of actual Close Air Support(CAS) for the Army. Which is why the Army does not list it's attack helicopters as CAS(The other branches and other nations list helicopters and fixed wing aircraft as CAS). The Army labels it's Atk Helicopter assets as Close Combat Aviation(CCA) and also tracks them as maneuver elements on the battlefield, as oppose to just a CAS platform passing through. This allows the Army to utilize it's attack helicopters without the need of actual qualified JTACs(Which is what is technically required to conduct CAS missions).
The Army's force is too large to manage a certified JTAC program for the entire branch. So all it has is the handful of AF JTACs divied out at battalion and brigade level. Since the Army can't have a JTAC in every platoon, having helicopters labeled as CCA allows any ground unit to coordinate attack helicopters in contact situations(Normally coordinated through Forward Observers).
tl;dr The Marines don't have jet fighters, they have attack jets that can fight.
>>29942607
And it's worth noting that the Harriers do damn good work as an attacker. Vulnerable to be sure, but they can carry a large payload over a short distance, return to a position close behind the lines, and return to do it again.
>>29933541
>Then why does the USAF have AC-130's.
>>29938059
The chair force wants to fly close air support from 30000 ft. They don't like risking their planes at low altitude therefore they have so many friendly fire accidents, also why they want to get rid of the only plane they have that really does CAS the A-10.
>>29938227
>>29939153
Yeah but it was only 30 miles from the ports they embarked from, most the vessels used were non ocean going landing craft which could not transport full loads across the ocean. The Marines carry out landings thousand of miles from bases.
>>29935612
>mount a PaK to it.
BMW motorcycles with PaK 40s popped into my head, I chuckled.
>>29939008
>it would have to compete with big army projects
The Marines as a whole is already competing with the Army
Those advantages seem negligible considering how retardedly much money they cost. You even note in your own post how marines regularly use "legacy equipment" and then pass it off as a good thing rather than sub-par equipment that requires it's own separate logistics and acquisition. You're an idiot if you think that somehow comes cheap just because it's older.
>>29939370
>It is too late to fix it
Saying that means saying that the military is fundamentally borked and you can expect very little good from it, ever.
>>29944394
Getting hand me downs from the army is cheaper than buying new equipment.
>>29944394
Except they buy the legacy stuff new, hornets were bought straight off the line.
They dont cost any more than the alternatives, they are cheaper.
>>29943817
It's not like they loaded the transports in Hawaii and then sailed across the ocean. Just like the Army, they would set up a home port on a friendly or captured island and then move on to the next objective.
>>29933298
I hope President Truman told them to run laps around the White House.
>>29938764
This, but in that case, why didn't the USMC ever adopt the A-10? It'd literally be right up MCAS's alley.
>>29940437
>>29940636
>>29940741
Marines are the rabid dogs that are beaten every day.
>>29948537
Because you can't fly them off of an amphib or carrier
>>29948537
What >>29949105 said...
So even though the A-10 is perfect for CAS, if it can't operate off a carrier, it's no good to the Marines with their doctrine. They don't need slow speed and long loiter time. The Marines have harriers and hornets so they can launch from carriers, strike targets fast, then go back to the carrier to reload and do it again.
>>29933136
As a former 130 crew chief, this shit sounds retarded as fuck to me. Making them ECM birds is alright I guess, but there are better craft to do that with. As far as self protection goes, LRCM systems can be and are already installed on the aft of the aircraft along with flare pods. So I'm not seeing what the Tiger pod is going to add to the aircraft other than adding a maintenance headache when we have to open the radome or access the nose landing gear.
>>29937922
You can't do an amphibious assault on China*
Why do the marines still exist?
You'd think any job they can do is better done by the Army, Navy, or Air Force. If the force for the job can't get there without a boat or plane or tank, why can't they just borrow from the relevant branch?
It's all one force, right?
>>29940785
I got this reference
>>29939515
>>29933186
Griffins are tiny and they soft launch so I doubt they would have to pull the tank to squeeze a few in. The launchers are basically holes in the ramp that the tubes lock into with covers that open when they drop. I just wonder how they are going to fit in a MOP.
