Is the KRISS Vector an XM8-tier meme or an actually viable weapon?
Kel Tec tier design study.
SMG are fucking obsolete.
The gun's recoil dampener used to shake the thing apart in earlier models, but supposedly it works a lot better in the latest gen. SMGs as a whole are pretty obsolete though. I'd be interested in seeing how well the system would scale up to a rifle caliber.
>>29786149
Coming out with 10mm soon
>>29786149
If it came out around 40 years ago when SMG's were actually marketable we'd be seeing it everywhere.
>>29786149
If everyone was allowed to own post 86 FA guns then they would probably be a bit more popular, since that's literally the only advantage of its special snowflake recoil system.
>>29787280
Not well, due to blowback action. Not saying blowback is inrerently bad for rifles, just substantially less than ideal compared to gas.
>>29787342
Ah, damn. There went my dreams of a .50 Beowulf Vector-AR.
>>29786160
How are they obsolete?
>Highly maneuverable
>Low penetration
>Ballistic pressure wave
>Can be suppressed effectively
Oh you mean in your video games...
The design is very sensible for a full auto .45. However, for a semi, "meme-tier" is the ideal way to describe it. Putting that kind of recoil mitigation on a semi is like putting a PEQ box on your rifle without owning any NODs. It doesn't hinder you in any way but its sort of pointless and wasted.
>>29787412
All of those apply to SBRs as well, with the added advantage of better armor penetration, longer range and ammo / training commonality.
Go to bed Gramps.
>>29786160
>>29787280
>>29787299
>>29787412
Of course the SMG is obsolete. This thing eclipsed all of them.
>>29787294
A meme gun in a meme round. Perfect for people that spout memes
>>29787412
You've got it backwards, video games are the only place where they still have a purpose. Carbines fill any SMG role better.
>>29787427
Not all, maybe most, but not all.
>Why use Woodland camoflage? Multicam® works in Forests too and even more places!
Go watch The Hangover again bro, gotta brush up on those quotes
>>29787450
Subsonic 9mm outperforms subsonic .223. Folks just adopted SBRs because they are better all around.
>>29787412
>How are they obsolete?
Carbines and SBRs with proper barrel length
>>29787464
fwiw I agree with you about SMG better filling some pretty badass niche roles
>>29787505
Please read the thread
>>29787412
>Highly maneuverable
So do SBRs
>Low penetration
Pistol caliber is known for over penetrating
>>29787513
>rest of thread is just "No u"
He hasn't been proven wrong. Subsonic 9mm might outperform subsonic .223, but it still means you have to carry around 30rnd mags full of 9mm which is heavy as fuck, hence why nobody does it. Besides, that's the whole reason .300 memeout is a thing.
>>29787427
>>29787505
>>29787536
Not to disregard OP's topic, but SMG's in general are way cheaper and easier to produce for unofficial forces and partisan troops. This alone keeps them relevant.
>>29787543
Or you carry 50 rounds of 5.7x28 in a P90.
>>29787559
Hardly. Its easier for insurgent forces to make zipguns than glocks, but zipguns aren't remotely relevant.
>>29787513
Noted. I just didn't see enough replies to that post yet. Ty mayn
They make Vectors here, maybe one day I'll get to hold one or shoot one for whatever reason
>>29787575
Nice fallacy. A zipgun cant very well engage someone with a glock, but a sten could easily hold off a conventional soldier
>>29786149
vidya memes
>>29787585
Sorry, just trying to keep the dicussion on track
>>29787513
Actually fuck it, I'll give you your btfo since I did read the thread in the first place.
You state that SMG is not obsolete because
>Highly maneuverable
>Low penetration
>Ballistic pressure wave
>Can be suppressed effectively
however it is common knowledge to use all that Carbines and SBRs, in reference to pistol caliber SMG are
>As highly maneuverable
>Have much lower penetration
>Have an exceedingly high ballistic pressure wave
>Can be suppressed nearly as effectively with the newest contract winning Surefire suppressor
fuck you, l2google then read the thread again.
>>29787612
Im not sure why you replied to that post 3 different times haha but you sound mad as fuck. I actually meant read the thread because the same thing was already posted once or twice. L2 wash the sand out of your cunt
>>29787592
>A zipgun cant very well engage someone with a glock
Based on what? A bullet is a bullet, regardless of the pipe it came from. If mr zipgun got the first shot off, mr glock is dead regardless of the quality fit and finish of his piece.
>>29787633
>post fuddlore bullshit that hasn't been true in 30 years
>multiple people tell you so
>hAha lol Umad? Lol samefag!
The whole forced laughter thing doesn't make you look like you're unfazed, which I'm guessing is the intention. Oh well.
>>29787639
This is true. I meant more of that it isnt something you would wanna take into a warzone. Hence why insurgents use way more stens/grease guns than zip /pipe guns.
>>29787663
No, I'm actually listening to what everyone else has to say. I just thought it was legitimately funny you took that comment so personally. You actually seem upset. Do the other kids pick on you at airsoft?
>>29787612
Its about adaptability.
Its very easy for the military to swap the barrel on a carbine so it plays well indoors. But even indoors, the carbine plays best because you're trying to take accurate pot shots around corners.
In reality. The .458 Socom is what is going to be used for a specialized mission.
You have to look at what Subbies were used for. Clearing out trenches. Trenches don't have a lot of sharp corners and opportunities for cover.
Additionally, engagements in trenches are often mismatched with frequent choke-points. Being able to spray an area with multiple attackers behooved sub machine gun users.
However, trench warfare is pretty deprecated with modern missile systems and artillery. With White Phosphorus somehow passing through Geneva Convention and all.
The SMG is shit.
The only reason its good in Shooters is because shooters simulate trench combat where enemies can spawn behind you and not running and gunning will mean dying.
>>29787686
I'm not him, I'm the second guy that responded.
>>29787703
Please read the thread
>>29786149
WHICH ONE OF YOU IS THIS @17:00
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrQTvyuFw7I
The only reason I can think of owning a SMG would be to have a fun plinker to carry around a back wood property. Mind you, I am referring to something with that uses a cheaper round like a 9mm.
If i ever get the money for property in the woods, I am going to get a SMG and wander around in tiger-stripe camo.
>>29786149
Meme meme meme middley meeme
>>29787862
I lurked. He's from Kommiefornia? His guns for sure dont make the "BRAP" noise.
I plan on picking one up and SBRing it. Yes, the recoil reducing shit is retarded, but:
>uses glock magazines
>cheap to shoot
>I live in the city and all the ranges close by are indoor and don't allow rifle rounds
>with the folding stock can fit inside a messenger bag
>sweet gtfo of the city gun w/ a glock backup, since that means one caliber/one magazine type
>suppressed home defense, I don't care what you faggots say about carbines, obviously none of you fucks have fired an AR-15 indoors without earpro.
I was going to get a 9mm version because I've had a hard on for the G17L forever, but the 10mm version with a G40 seems sweet too. Nothing about extended 10mm mags yet though, and it does kill the cheap to shoot point.
Yes, there are other PCCs out there, but none with both a folding stock and magazine compatability with a common handgun.
>>29787998
+1 on the earpro thing. Most folks in this thread are getting their info from Youtube
>>29787427
>>29787612
Implying that its enough of a difference to put them out of service. Fucking autists...
>inb4 boof tries to sell you one
>>29787427
>SBRs
>implying that they are highly maneuverable
>Says better penetration
>Post before said low penetration
>rly nigga?
>>29787761
u got btfo son dont lie
t b h the only reason SMGs aren't "obsolete" is because they still shoot and kill and SMGs that have "machine pistol" layouts like the MP7 and MP9 are super compact.
>>29788546
>implying that they are highly maneuverable
They are.
>Says better penetration
Thats true. .223 will defeat plates that will stop most 9mm.
>Post before said low penetration
Overpenetrate. 9mm will go through a person and keep going. .223 is less prone to do so because of its wounding characteristics. Armor penetration and tendency to overpenetrate are not the same thing.
