Zen and the art of knife sharpening.
autism stones
Also culinary knives.
And folders for that matter.
>>29689046
940
Higo No Kami's are based as fuck. Best $15 you could spend on a knife.
>>29689010
I have that same knife, it sucks
>>29690013
scratch that, I got it as a gift a long time ago and thought it was just some cheap shit knife, looked them up and apparently they're pretty cool.
Gonna have to restore mine, how do you keep it from swinging open?
>>29690068
Tighten the metal a bit around the axis.
>>29690431
so just whack it with a hammer on the rivet?, I was able to polish off the rust spots on the blade with polish and steel wool, looks much better now
>>29689725
>Best $15 you could spend on a knife
>Not a Mora or an Opinel
Nigga what?
I bought 3 stones (1k 2k 5k) a while back and haven't touched them. Any good video resources to learn how to properly?
Is there any hope I will be able to sharpen pic related?
>>29691429
you need very thin stones or better yet rods to sharpen recurved blades. you can sharpen with the corner of your stone too but you'll probably ruin your stones pretty fast like that. 1k is a pretty high grit to start with unless the edge is not yet dull and just needs a touch up.
>>29691616
Most of my knives I have bought sharp. I did a bit of reading before I bought and it said the best stones to start with are 800/1k unless the blade is extremely dull.
What do you recommend?
>>29691731
dull is a relative term. I start blades that can't cut paper without tearing it at 600 grit. you can start at 1000 it will just take longer.
that being said depending on the stone material a 1k grit stone can be much faster than another stone material at 600 grit.
>>29691817
I just bought a set of these because they seemed to be the best ones on amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001TPH8YG/ref=s9_hps_bw_g469_i4
>>29689725
I agree, I love mine, its my edc. I polish the blade at home with a denim strop with tin oxide rubbed into it. It cuts paper by its weight, and I cut down probably 20 or 30 large boxes every day, I swear I can sharpen it on a flat box, but it never seems to get duller, just sharper and more polished.
>>29691855
I'm sure they are fine. just try em out. when they get pits in them google how to flatten them back out.
>>29689725
Anybody have a preference between
>Mercator
>Douk-douk
>Higo No Kami
>Opinal
I love simple knives but all I've got is a SAK or two, a Sodbuster Jr. And a few old timers so I'm thinking about getting a little more penny knife diversity.
>>29692014
>Being this autistic about knives
>>29689021
>>29695427
Remember kids: These people are deeply asspained that they cannot sharpen their knives and have to be afraid to use them, or dull them butter knife territory.
The only way they can console thar gnawing feeling that they should be point and laughed at for owning knives when they can't even maintain them is to make fun of the people who CAN maintain their tools.
I got this coming in the mail today (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00062BIT4/). Got any tips for a first time user?
>>29689010
got one of those
need to get something other than an axe stone
>>29689010
Teach me, Anon.
I've never learned how to sharpen a knife beyond what is possible with a file.
>>29691429
>>29696921
There are lots of videos out there, you will see that people have different ways of holding the knife and that some make short back and forth passes while others make full heel-to-toe strokes.
What this implies is that as long as you learn to hold a consistent angle, technique is mostly a matter of personal preference.
The important aspects are learning to hold a consistent angle, learning not to use too much pressure, learning to reach a burr along the full edge on both sides on the first stone, learning to get a burr free edge on the last stone, and learning to finish the apex by strop or micro-bevel on a hard abrasive.
For those things there are less resources, and its hard to know which resources are useful because so many people repeat old wives tales, superstitions and lies about sharpening since they usually don't actually understand why they do what they do.
>Zen
Something cats do and people try desperately to mimic but fail.
>knife sharpening
You must sharpen the knife without first deciding to sharpen the knife.
>>29697011
>talking shit about zen
>then talking in buddhistic reverse riddles
Well fuck you, sir, and the horse you rode in on.
>>29694490
Mercators are cool
>>29696971
I don't know what to tell you anon. Look up a few videos. Korin knives is pretty good and they idiot proof the process for you.
>>29697011
This
My two babies, one for work and one for around town.
>>29699731
>>29698945
When you love hell,then you will be in heaven.
Reminder that whilst stones are great, you can still get a razor sharp edge on the cheap stuff with a bit of effort.
Esee 3 done with a small cc4 ceramic
>>29689071
It's just a Japanese Walmart knife. They're on amazon for $3.
I have pic related to keep two Benchmade folders and a hunting knife sharp, but have never been able to actually do jack shit. Am I just doing a really shitty job or do I have really shitty tools?
>>29703147
>meme.text
You're an idiot.
>>29689725
>>29691251
>best 15$ you can spend on a knife
Thats not a ganzo, sanrenmu, or enlan
Nigga what.
>>29689055
I want one of these so bad! Why do they have to cost as much as a marlin model 60?!!
>>29701976
but they are nice knives with quality steel on the edge.
>>29703147
The most common source of problems for new sharpeners us failing to reach an apex. You should be able to form a burr along the whole edge on the coarsest stone before turning the knife over and forming a burr along the whole edge on the other side.
Only once you have done that should you start moving to finer stones to polish the edge bevel to finer grits.
>>29694490
I have all of them except the douk douk.
The Opinel will cut the best because they have excellent blade geometry, but they all should be pretty close performance wise, so it just comes down to taste.
Also check out MAM of Portugal
>>29696945
what model is that?
>>29704508
Thanks for the heads up on MAN. Never knew I needed a folding fork/knife combo. Interesting take on the liner lock too
Are these things any good, or are they a heresy? Do they only fit one kind of blade?
I bought one of these a few days ago. I know, it's garbage, but I'm a poorfag, I've never tried sharpening before, and it's better than nothing.
I can get decently sharp, but not shaving sharp.
>>29705529
They'll sharpen your knives in a hurry but remove significantly more material. Not advised for knives you'd like to use for awhile.
>>29703147
This is a good starting point for novices. It keeps my sets sharp.
>>29699770
I like your taste
>>29705930
>>29699770
I'm inclined to agree as well
>>29692014
Yeah. Well, they can function well for your particular situation, but overall, it is a primitive knife. Mine opened partially in my pocket, and could have sliced up my thigh pretty well if I hadn't noticed. (The machining is so crude that the blade swings easily in part of the arc, when it is nearly closed, and not easily when it is nearly fully open.) Even in Japan they aren't special; they are traditionally used to sharpen pencils.
More fully: the steel is good. But the blade is thick, and the otb grind angle is pretty steep, which makes it a poor slicer. And the lack of any kind of lock, plus the rudimentary handle, make it unsafe, as knives go.
Here is a similar knife I'm curious to try. It has a longer tab, or whatever you call it, a decent handle, and a nice high taper grind.
http://www.garrettwade.com/new-zealand-peasant-knife-gp.html
Today I will lap this stone.
>>29689010
https://www.youtube.com/user/virtuovice
This guy is a Jap surgeon/professor who is a sharp knife fanatic.
>>29689010
Using waterstones can be a very zen like experience. Quite relaxing really.
But for the vast majority of people, speed and ease of use trump subjective enjoyment.
The fastest approach to achieving any desired apex finish is two waterstones and a leather strop with a diamond or CBN compound on it.
1) Naniwa Sharpening Stone 400 (used to be called Super Stone)
2) Naniwa Aotoshi 2000 (aka the green brick of joy)
3) Leather bench strop with diamond or CBN paste. Use 16 micon at the finest, 80 micron for coarse edges.
That will get you incredibly sharp knives in less than 10 minutes each. Five if you are fast.
>>29709530
In case anyone is curious, I suggest those two stones because they both tend very easily create a slurry of loose abrasive on the surface of this stone while you use them, which serves to keep the apex line clean, straight, and burr free.
This trait is great if you plan to strop after, but a pain if you are trying to get a sharp apex right off the stone.
These stones also leave a very fine finish relative to their grit, taking you from 400 grit to a near mirror polish in two stones.
Basically makes them the fastest way to get to a clean, straight, burr free edge ready to take a highly polished apex finish.
>>29689010
I do hope everyone knows that Higos come blunt right? Because I didn't and I felt/feel like a retard.
Anyway, is there a tutorial for how to sharpen a higo? I want to do it properly because my one is actually quite nice.
>>29694490
I have all of them plus a few more. The carbon Opinels are definitely the best blades. great steel and a very thinly ground blade makes them slide through anything very easily. The douk douk isnt too far behind, but the blade is a bit thicker, and the handle isnt too comfy. The mercator is cool, but the edge is a fair bit thicker so it cuts comparibly to the SAK's which isnt too bad, but its not a crazy slicer like the opinels or douk douks.
The higonokami is different all together, it takes a very sharp edge but its thick like a wedge, you could push cut paper, but would have trouble cutting an apple in half because it would just wedge in.
You should add the south african Okapi knife to your list too, it isnt the greatest in performance, but its cool as fuck, unique and fun to spin around on your finger
And everyone needs a buck 110 in their classic knives collection, even if its a different class of knife
>>29709662
Mine came very sharp. There are quite a lot of "higo style" knives, but only one real "higonokami"
And you sharpen it with the bevels totally flat against the stone, rather than the regular way of choosing an angle and forming a secondary bevel
>>29709750
I read that because the guy makes them all by hand he doesn't have time to sharpen them or something.
Would anyone tell me if 400, 1000, 6000 grit would be a good three set of stones if I wanted to take a working edge to razor sharp. I don't know what a good general rule of thumb is to buy for a set of stones
>working at a "children's primitive skills camp" during college, teaching kids to make fire and arrowheads and shit
>camp is being run by a borderline insane mountain man who wears a homemade buckskin and big mustache, apparently spent a year in the wilderness after high school
>one day I'm trying to sharpen my ka-bar
>he asks if he can see it, takes it behind his truck
>two minutes later he comes back out with it
>fucker was so sharp I shaved with it for two weeks
>ask him how he did it
>"practice"
I will never, ever get that knife as sharp again.
>>29706138
>http://www.garrettwade.com/new-zealand-peasant-knife-gp.html
Plus:
-Handle/tang design is super secure open or closed
- Disassembles with brass screws for cleaning
Con:
- Arrived looking like it had been sharpened by a monkey with cerebral palsy. Took a long time to clean up right.
>>29710235
You can get a knife equally sharp off of those three grits, what changes as you go up in grits is the balance between push cutting sharpness and slicing aggression.
>>29710626
that's a load of shit. a 400 grit edge will be basically serrated. might cut some things well but it will not be as sharp as a 6k grit edge. you'll be cutting with the burrs and when they roll over it will be dull again and it won't take long.
>>29689010
How are these knives?
http://www.amazon.com/Right-Carving-Japanese-Kiridashi-Knife/dp/B00KDHYKS8/ref=pd_sim_469_1/179-3818918-1633848?ie=UTF8&dpID=41-xFKIATML&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_&refRID=1ZP9ZCBB2TC9MG85FM5F
Saw them in related results when I looked up Higo no Kami and like the idea of a small fixed blade knife.
What is the most important thing to remember when trying to git gud at freehand sharpening? Ive had one of those tri hone things sitting around forever like in this post >>29696921. I tried a while ago when I first got it but I couldnt get a paper slicing edge and I gave up. Since then I wanta get back into it.
>>29689032
I'm ashamed to say I own a couple mid-tier Japanese culinary knives (chef's and paring) and I really have no good idea on how to sharpen them, despite owning several whetstones.
>>29710845
What do you mean by sharp? Technically, sharpness refers to how thin the apex is, and a similar thinness of apex can be achieved at any practical grit.
It is entirely possible to get a burr free 400 grit edge that will pushcut newsprint with the grain and shave.
It will also last a lot longer slicing soft abrasive materials like cardboard, rope, and carpet than a higher grit edge will because of the larger microscopic teeth.
Of course, it will have low pushcutting sharpness, but that is the inherent trade-off with apex finish. Pushcutting sharpness and slicing aggression are directly inversely correlated.
>>29710845
You need to listen to >>29711041
Don't make it get to the stage where he posts webms and proves he knows more about sharpening than you.
>get edge to whisking away hair
>gone within a day of use
Sigh.
Just got this in the mail today
Honestly kind of surprised how sharp they come out of the box
>>29704010
They should run for 140-160$ on ebay or amazon. I talked a bitchmade dealer down to 140 for my 940 and contego since I bought two that day.
>>29699820
>>29699731
>owning meme steel
>>29698945
Don't worry, I'm still working in myself
>>29705529
Eh, if your knife doesn't match that things bevel perfectly it won't even touch the apex. Useless unless your edge geometry matches that ones.
>>29705930
woof, sexy anon.
>>29705970
Hows the infidel treating you? I couldn't spare the ridiculous price tag.
>>29709662
I put a micro bevel on mine cause I'm lazy.
>>29710235
I use this exact set of stones. Works great, can shave off hair, but its mostly skill and consistency and blade material. You could prolly get a 1k to shave hair off but it takes a precise and consistent touch.
>>29711009
Looks cool anon. Cheap Jap stuff is always fun to have. For some reason the cheap jap stuff is somehow magically half decent quality when it comes to the material.
>>29711020
I had two or three cheap throw away knives that i just sharpened and resharpened on my stones to practice. Gotta practice anon.
>>29711026
Im not sure how you didn't get frustrated after they dull. I'm kind of hard on mine I guess, breaking down birds and shit.
sup guys so i found an old multitool and the knife is as sharp as a ballpoint pen. I also have an old stone under the sink for knives and im wondering if this would be vaild to sharpen?
forgive please english im from belarus
>>29711613
Consider using a leather bench strop with 10 - 20 micron diamond or CBN abrasive, you can use it to keep an edge touched up for some time.
It will take an edge worn from slicing a bunch of corrugated cardboard and restore it to push cutting newsprint across the grain in five or ten passes per side.
>>29711984
Go for it, its just steel.
>>29694490
>>29709726
I can also recommend the Svord peasant knife and especially the knifes from Pallares Solsona, incredibly good blades for the price, they replaced my carbon Opi as my preferred light duty knife.
>>29710269
He probably gave it a few passes on a stone and then finished it on his window. Carbon steel reacts super well to frosted Glass
>>29711953
>I use this exact set of stones. Works great, can shave off hair, but its mostly skill and consistency and blade material. You could prolly get a 1k to shave hair off but it takes a precise and consistent touch.
You can actually get a 400 grit edge to shave hair no problem, but its more of an issue of burr minimization vs apex thinness rather than skill and finesse in actually using the stones.
Basically:
Very muddy waterstones are ideal of shaping the edge bevel quickly to a burr free, clean apex line, but muddy stones are bad for setting the final sharpness because the mud smacks into the edge.
Solid abrasives like diamond plates and ceramic stones are very good for setting final sharpness with a small number of very low force passes, but tend to create massive, ragged, difficult to remove burrs if used to shape the edge bevel for an extended period.
The solution is to use a muddy waterstone to shape the edge bevel and then set the final sharpness by making edge trailing passes on the waterstone or a pasted strop, or to switch to a solid abrasive at a slightly raised angle to set the apex with edge leading passes.
In either case you can achieve very high sharpness at any grit much more quickly and easily than trying to use one type of abrasive for the whole process.
>>29691817
Ha, relative. An old lady at work brought her kitchen knives to me to sharpen. The edge was a radius. I started w ith a belt sander.
>>29703147
I bought the diamond stone version of this set, and it works, but takes literally hours to go through even a 3-4 inch blade. I have worked on my 10 inch chef's knife (which is a really annoyingly tough yet wobbly stainless steel) for no lie, like 3 hours with the coarse diamond stone and still couldn't get an even edge to appear. It's just not really made for larger blades, and the stones aren't wide enough to remove enough material each pass. The oil it comes with is also horrible and makes the stone clog up within a couple of passes, I had much better results using alcohol or watered down Simple Green as as lubricant. Having a nylon or steel bristle brush nearby to periodically clear shavings out of the grit was also pretty helpful.
I eventually gave up and bought pic related off of amazon, it's an Edge Pro knockoff which goes for around 25 bucks. It's a surprisingly complete kit for the money, takes less than half the time of the lansky with better finish, especially on larger knives.
>>29706138
If you don't already have an Opinel, try em out man. I got a carbon and Inox (stainless steel) at the same time, and they're both fucking awesome. got No.8s, they're like 4 inches closed, But i do highly recommend both of them. If i got any other size than 8, it would be 9, but 8 are mighty fine
>>29691429
https://www.youtube.com/user/virtuovice
Love this dude.
>>29689010
knife name plsssssss
>>29689010
Noob here. What stones should I get to teach myself how to sharpen?
>>29718378
It's a Boku no Pico, you can find them on Amazon.
>>29718441
god fucking damnit
>>29704670
the medium one
The only knives I can sharpen are scandi grind. How do I find a consistent angle on knives with slimmer bevels? I can't feel it on the stone and apparently I can't do it by sight either.
I can get them 'kind of sharp' but never sharp enough to pop hair, and I'm an autist and perfectionist so I throw them back into my draw in frustration. I won't use them unless they're as sharp as my one good knife, even if they are themselves usably sharp.
>>29718799
You are not autistic. You are obsessive compulsive. You require a fully guided system to sharpen your knive like the wicked edge pro. Otherwise you will become frustrated with sharpening. Sharpening by hand will never be 100% perfect and these imperfections will trigger you even if you get really good at it.
>>29718388
What is your budget and how coarse or fine a finish do you want?
Waterstones have the highest up front investment but are the fastest and by far the best choice if you want a relatively fine apex finish.
Diamond plates are fast, but are still not cheap, leave a very coarse scratch pattern relative to their grit, and have a strong tendency to leave a ragged, hard to remove burr.
Oilstones like Norton India or Crystolon stones are cheap, reasonably fast cutting, and tend to leave a coarser finish than waterstones but not as coarse as diamond plates. They also have less of a tendency to form heavy burrs and are easier to use to remove the burr.
>>29718799
From what you've said, its extremely likely that you aren't fully apexing the knives.
The easiest way to learn to do so is to colour in the edge bevel with permanent marker and work on one side of the knife on your coarsest stone until all the marker is removed and a burr you can clearly see and feel is formed along the whole edge.
Once you have a burr along the whole edge, flip the knife over and repeat until you have a full burr on the other side.
Once you have a full burr on both sides you can be sure you have fully apexed the knife. Then you can move to finer grits and increase the polish to the desired level. You only need to form a burr on the FIRST stone.
Once you have got the knife at the final grit you want, make 1-2 very light alternating passes per side at ~45 degrees to the stone. It will cut off the burr, then go back and make 10 very light alternating passes per side at the original angle you were sharpening at and you are done.
>>29719102
As someone who is pretty damn obsessive compulsive about sharpening, I disagree.
Guided systems are too slow, too limited in terms of angle selection, rob you of most of the advantages of waterstones, and prevent you from using burr minimization techniques easily.
Precise angle control is not super important when freehanding until the last 10-20 passes per side, which determinr the character of the actual apex.
Plus, if you raise the angle slightly and create a micro-bevel with 5-10 passes per side to set the apex, precision at the shaping stage becomes even less important because creating a micro-bevel essentially cuts off the previous apex.
Using a micro-bevel to set the apex also creates a much stronger and easier to touch-up apex for a minimal loss of cutting ability.
>>29720559
>edge so fine you can use it as a mirror as you shave with another knife
Sheeeit
>>29720559
You are correct but it depends on what he wants.
If his goal is to become hyper proficient like you and will tolerate the long learning curves then yes, we all know the best way to go. I also use stones.
However if he just wants to have a perfectly even bevel and pop hairs on every knife he owns then a guided system may stop him staying up till 2am obsessing over that ONE FUCKING BIT OF THE EDGE THAT STILL AT CACHES THE LIGHT at a certain angle and all he wants to do is go to sleep knowing his knives are sharp (assuming they all make the right *click when putting them away*.
>>29696945
do these lock open
if so ill blow 20bucks on one, however i really need a knife to stay locked open as that is what I am used to and i am pretty sure i would cut myself eventually if it will just free swing close
i cant use my swiss army knife anymore for this reason but love my leatherman, maybe im just a spaz i don't know
>>29721768
The locking mechanism is your thumb, you hold it open with that thumb pad on the bottom of the rear of the blade
>>29718378
Higo no maki or some shit should be less then 30$
>>29720559
I was wondering when you would show up. I fuckn love that edge.
I have tried to sharpen my knives a few times and bought one of those spyderco stone sets, it seems to take me forever and I feel my knives could be sharper
maybe this makes me a fag but i have some nice knives i use frequently, is there someplace I can send them to be sharpened properly?
i also feel if i could take a good look at them before and after it would give me a better idea of what i am doing wrong
>>29721836
Beware of sending em away, most pro places just run em against a belt sander which presents problems for someone who enjoys a quality knife. Just keep reading and keep practicing anon.
>>29721879
yeah there is a guy at the local gun shows who does that, that's not what I want (it's fine for some knives though i guess), i want it done right and to learn to do it, thanks
>>29721267
The really crazy thing is that you can get a similarly mirrored finish in two stones if you use the right waterstones.
A Naniwa Aotoshi (rated at ~2000x) will take an edge from a 400x or 1000x stone and basically mirror it in one step as long as the steel doesn't have too much vanadium in it.
>>29721620
I usually describe it as a trade-off between paying the time up front to learn how to freehand, or paying the time bit by bit with every knife you sharpen on a guided system since they take a lot longer on a per-knife basis.
>>29721818
I give quite a bit of sharpening advice on these threads, I just try to avoid gratuitously avatar fagging.
>>29699802
>that bevel
>cant even find the brand online
i would say slit your wrists with that but i dont think it has the cutting power.
>>29720468
I was short on time but decided to try the marker trick. I had preciously re-ground the bevel with a Lanksy, then tried it on my 4000 grit stone with no luck.
This time I put marker on it and fucked the jig off. I gave it a couple passes on my 1000grit diamond stone I use mostly for plane irons, I was able to keep a consistent-ish angle.
After that I went to my roughly 4000 grit Belgian blue whetstone and after a little bit of work came out nice and fairly sharp, enough to shave hair. I stropped it with some jewer's rouge and now it's about as sharp as I've got any knife. I find it strange that as soon as I freehanded it that my results were better. I'll just keep practicing.
>>29722143
>>that bevel
What's wrong with it?
>>29722566
Glad to hear it worked out for you. Freehanding is usually much faster than something like a Lansky so its easier for a beginner to fully apex the edge in a timely fashion.
Like I said, that is usually the first major hurdle for new sharpeners. Burr minimization is usually the second, but can only become an issue after the first.
I would also suggest trying ~10 micron diamond or ~16 micon CBN paste on leather as an alternative to jewelers rouge, it will give faster results and will have much less chance of removing too much slicing aggression from the apex.
>>29722658
>and will have much less chance of removing too much slicing aggression from the apex.
What does this mean?
Also I didn't get a burr and never seem to when I freehand, no matter on what stone.
>>29722692
Did you keep sharpening on one side, or were you switching sides back and forth? To get a full burr you are supposed to sharpen on one side until you get a burr along the whole edge, and only then switch sides and repeat on the other side.
With a 1000 grit or less stone, you should be able to get a burr in a reasonable timeframe.
As to the other question, at a high enough magnification, a sharpeners steel apex will have teeth like a saw blade. The higher the grit, the smaller the teeth.
Polishing compounds like jewelers rouge often are fine enough that they can easily make the microscopic teeth so small that they wont bite into things you are slicing (like sliding off the skin of a tomato even though it will shave).
People often call this "overstropping" but actually it happens because the compound is too fine, or it breaks down in use and becomes too fine.
A 10 micron diamond paste or 16 micron CBM paste will not cause the microscopic teeth at the apex too get too small, no matter how many passes you make on it.
>>29723053
I switch sides every 5 passes. Is it better to do it until you get a burr?
>>29723286
For someone new to sharpening, I would sharpen one side until you have a burr along the whole edge, then repeat on the other side.
It is the easiest way for a beginner to be SURE they have fully apexed the edge on both sides.
What I do, personally, is lightly cut off the old edge into the stone (i.e. 2-3 very light passes into the stone like you are trying to slice the stone in half), the edge will then obviously reflect light from a strong directed light source (e.g. halogen desk lamp).
I then sharpen, alternating sides every ~20 passes or so, until there is no longer light reflecting from the edge. I then start moving to higher grit stones.
This method wastes less metal and is good for avoiding forming a burr in this first place, but beginners trying it will often jump the gun and move to finer stones before the knife is close enough to apexed.
Hence i recommend the burr method to new sharpeners. Of course, after the first stone, alternate sides frequently.
>>29721915
just get stones anon and practice
>>29721836
>>29721879
>>29721915
>>29723474
I would suggest learning yourself, there really is no point to sending knives out to be sharpened because you probably won't even be able to keep them touched up for long once you get them back.
But if you insist, look up Razor Edged Knives. Thar dude does good hand sharpening work for a reasonable price.
