How does the USAF fail to shoot down let alone fail to quickly respond to the attacks on 11th September 2001 ?
Four ( 4 ) airliners, some of which had transponders operating flying over a primary radar zone. From first failure to respond at 0814 it took until 0834 for CIVILIANS to notify the military that something was wrong. F15's were only in the air at 0853 ( 7 minutes after the first place hit WTC). This was a 19 minute response from notification by civilians.
In the 10 minutes that F15's were airborne until the second plane hit WTC - no attempt was made to vector the F15's towards the other plane - because civilians were too busy talking about the first plane to inform the military. The F15's were supersonic and would of arrived at NYC in 8 mins.
It was arond 0915 when the order to launch F16's from Atlantic city.
at 0925 the F15's began a CAP over NYC.
The third flight (77) was missing at 0855, FAA was notfied at 0925 - it took them until 0935 to inform the military. two minutes later the plane hit the pentagon.
Flight 93 went missing from radar at 0928 and screaming was heard on the radio along with the threat of a bomb. it took until 0949 for ATC to decide if they should call the military - 4 minutes after it crashed into a field.
Why does the US not rely on it's military to track air traffic and self notify ?
And how could the second plane be allowed to fly into WTC while its transponder was on and aircraft were armed and in the air - in range.
Conspiracies pls go to /pol.
>>29539943
>And how could the second plane be allowed to fly into WTC while its transponder was on and aircraft were armed and in the air - in range.
>shoot down plane before it hits WTC
>crashes into other building(s)
>kills shitload of people regardless
>USAF demonized
>way too many civies killed
As a side note, the RAF has been responsible for QRA (Quick Reaction Alert) since WW2 with the military being in charge of tracking and identifying civilian and military targets.
While all countries will have made changes after 11-09-01, was the US just rusty (read as new) at defending its own airspace ?
Here's a cool news piece on QRA if you're interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hijzP1zzLI
>>29539988
The USAF wasn't even in a position to make that decision because of poor information handling.
>>29540001
It's not bait if there was actually a huge fuck up. Where was NORAD ?
>>29539988
>Not having two jets just go in front of the hijacked jet and deploy a large sturdy net to catch the hijacked plane
This shit has been around since the Aircraft Carrier. Tell me this wasn't an inside job...just try it.
Because one big object hitting one building is better than thousands of smaller objects hitting thousands of buildings
inside job
>>29540098
It's really not.
You can blow up two jets in whatever magical ways you want. If it's in mid air you're not going to Kill 3k+ people and injure twice that.
It was also not a conscious decision to allow the jets to hit WTC - the USAF were not in a position to make that decision either way.
>>29540034
Quick question- how old were you in 2001?
>>29540011
Yes. Everyone was still in the late nineties mindset- end of history and all that.
>>29540178
12 I think. Not that it would have any bearing on my ability to look into it in 2016.
In 50 -80 years they will release the information (when everyone is dead or don't care anymore) that the USAF shot down that plane in Pennsylvania killing a hand full of citizens, so hundreds or thousands wouldn't die in another building being pancaked, until then that info will remain secret.
>>29539943
It's not a conspiracy if theres a ton of evidence that it was on purpose
but whatever, just look it up and don't take my word for it
>daily reminder
>>29539943
- Nobody had expected a hijacking to end in using the aircraft as a cruise missile before; that's a big mental gap to leap
- Shoot down the airliner, kill a couple of hundred civilians: with that mindset of not expecting this sort of attack comes a slower ability to process the idea of deliberately shooting down a plane full of American citizens
- NORAD and the USAF were postured to protect from a threat from outside, not a co-opted aircraft inside CONUS
- the overwhelming majority of ATC is handled by a civil authority; in my experience military ATC is more prone to mistakes with separation and getting bogged down with the traffic flow; I'd never want military ATC to handle all traffic
>>29540241
>"evidence"
>crazy people off their meds on youtube making videos about "muh false flag"
back to the containment board you go
>>>/pol/
>>29540214
Yes it would. You need to look at the situation from the perspective of an adult in 2001. The USAF failed to intercept or shoot down any aircraft because they were unready for multiple hijackings. They were unready for the idea that planes would be used as manned guided missiles against high value targets (no, reading Tom Clancy doesn't count). They were unready for the idea that the stability of the past ten years was a short-term thing about to evaporate.
The Cold War was high-tension shit. When it ended, a major drawdown- both physically and mentally- occurred. Hijacking was something where a guy produces a bomb and they land in Cuba for a bit while he makes demands. Terrorism was a declining number of attacks against US forces in the middle east.
History had ended.
Mindset was everything.
>>29540214
I think what the anon querying your age is getting at is that the mindset on that Tuesday morning was very different to that today. What people expected out of terror organizations; the capacity of them, and the "global terror threat" - which was non existent - were very different to what they are today and heavily influenced people's thought processes and reactions that morning
>>29540289
>>29540273
Whoops. Should have hit refresh before I basically repeated his points haha
>>29539943
It's a breach of your constitutional rights to have a fighter follow you even though you have done nothing wrong.
>>29540241
Literally the definition of a conspiracy.
>a secret collaboration between two or more people to engage in unlawful activity
9/11 was a conspiracy. Al Qaeda most definitely counts as a conspiracy.
>>29540328
No it's not, but you are entitled to get on 121.5 and ask "AM I BEING DETAINED"
>>29540273
>They were unready for the idea that planes would be used as manned guided missiles
But it had been tried before https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705
And if the role of your unit it to intercept threats, surely the plans are available and the training has been conducted to domestic hijackings.
And regardless of what you may do once you get to the plane - the intercepting aircraft never even got close enough to consider using their weapons.
>>29540328
>some sovereign citizen pressing his face against his window yelling AM I BEING DETAINED at the F-16
>>29540358
>>29540361
KEK
>F16 pilot flips him off
>muh free citizen loses his shit
>escalates
>gets plane vaporized
>last words were "AM I BEING DETAINED"
>>29540358
Can you imagine a hijacked plane spelling out "AM I BEING DETAINED" with one letter in each window ?
>pic unrelated
>>29540360
That wasn't an organised attempt at using an aircraft as a cruise missile; that was a disgruntled employee sperging out and taking a hammer and hatchet to work and trying to get back at management. It was also a freighter, and not full of people. Nice work by the crew, though.
It still hadn't occurred to anyone that someone might fly an airliner into a target. Domestic hijackings, when they occurred, didn't always get a fighter scrambled - typically that would only happen to verify where the aircraft was being taken.
Hijacking was something you did to get lots of hostages, not destroy a target - it was a massive mental bridge to cross, for everyone - the intel community, the air defense community, and the average citizen.
I mean no disrespect when I say to you that if you weren't a functioning adult back then you don't have an appreciation for how people thought. Like the other anon said - the Cold War was barely over for ten years; people thought we were moving into permanent peace, as retarded as that was.
Expecting a hijacking to turn into what it did would be like someone expecting the sky to rain elephants tomorrow - it wasn't something that happened.
>>29540360
It happened once, and was hardly representative of a major new wave in hijackings.
Again, you need to understand the mindset of the era. Everything was calm. Even if armed aircraft were on alert, there was no way you'd get them to shoot shit down.
The training of the era would mainly have revolved around following the hijacked plane at a safe distance, so as not to spook the hijackers into doing something stupid. Let them land at an airport, make their demands, and then roll the hostage rescue teams.
>>29540382
kek
Also, pic unrelated but rather cool.
>>29539943
Well known mistakes. Watch any documentary about it. Any documentary. Even a shitty one.
>>29540426
That's how it went down in Pennsylvania
>>29540360
>training has been conducted to domestic hijackings
It really hadn't. SOP for dealing with a hijacker was 'Give them what they want until they land and deal with them then'.
>>29540273
>they were unready for the idea
https://a.pomf.cat/axnxco.webm
This episode aired in March 2001.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lone_Gunmen_(TV_series)
"they had no idea" is not a valid excuse and is downright misleading.
>>29540468
Nobody watched your shitty show back then, Chris, and nobody is going to now.
Tom Clancy wrote about a Japanese pilot divine winding the Capitol building in about 1995; that didn't help either.
Whether or not there SHOULD have been an awareness of the ability to use an airliner as a weapon, there wasn't. It's easy, with hindsight, to point to all kinds of material that might have provided a warning, but the fundamental truth is that people didn't think like that back then (Oh god the seminal moment of my generation was long enough ago to call it "back then") and 20 minutes was not enough reaction time to reshape their minds on what had very quickly become the new reality.
>>29540011
That was a cool documentary.
Despite being very similar to the US, something about it being British makes it a bit alien but kinda cool. Maybe I just have a thing for the accents.
>>29540468
You really have no idea about the mindset of the era.
>>29540468
I suppose that since shit like The Division and The Last Ship exist, then the country is ready for a biological attack, right?
>>29540511
btw i am >>29540360 and >>29540468 is not me
>>29540529
If 15 years after it happens, retards on the internet are saying "the gov had no idea that could possibly happen guise i swear" then yes I would point to those as evidence that they should have known.
>>29540573
The problem was that at the time the US Government was more focused on the dangers posed by alien invasion, as illustrated by "Independence Day", and so this low tech plot from earth's surface escaped them.
>>29540597
Stopping an alien invasion is a little farther outside the realm of possibility than sortieing fighter jets in a timely manner wouldn't you say?
>>29540640
They were also hamstrung by resources going to the People Who Miss Sarcastic References Foundation
>>29540573
Previous to the September 11 attacks, the largest terrorist strikes in the US in recent memory were conducted using bombs. Two that really stuck with people in the 90s was the OK City bombing and the WTC bombing. As a result, a lot of effort was being put into looking for people trying to make truck bombs- monitoring for the telltale signs of bomb-making.
Even Bojinka, which was disrupted in 1995, involved bombs.
>>29540241
>just look it up
You made the claim it was done purposefully. You are required to support that claim with evidence.
Shit happens, people learn.
>>29540360
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Express_Flight_705
>A guy tried to commit suicide in a way that would allow his family to receive life insurance is exactly the same thing as a concerted effort to hijack multiple planes and crash them into buildings.
>And if the role of your unit it to intercept threats, surely the plans are available and the training has been conducted to domestic hijackings.
Yes, to intercept and escort.
No one in the US military is going to order a fighter to take down a commercial airliner full of AMCITs without knowing the full situation. And because of the 99.99% of other hijackings weren't your one example of someone attempting to hijack to commit suicide, they didn't expect that the goal was to deliberately crash them into occupied buildings.
If you understood the shift in Terrorism between the New Left Wave and the current wave, you would understand why terrorist TTPs were thought to be what they had historically been.
>>29540468
>This episode aired in March 2001.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lone_Gunmen_(TV_series)
Dude, I lover the X-Files and I loved the Lone Gunmen spinoff, but nobody watched that fucking show. Why do you think they were canceled after a single season?
>>29540358
joke's on you, i don't listen to VHF Guard.
>>29540360
most of the time USAF fighters fly around for training with practice munitions on-board. if anything's live it's usually some piddly little 25 lb dumb bombs or maybe some rounds in the gun. it's so we can practice full-up. now there are going to be cases such as shuttle launches, etc. where there are aircraft either in the air or on the ramp standing alert, with crews dressed and ready to go. however, that's not a regular occurrence since missiles are really really expensive (AIM-120B, what they had at the time, was about $1.5 million) and while bomb are cheap, regularly dropping 500 lb bombs on something wrecks your targets pretty quick. the F-16 Guard unit near DC that responded to 9/11 only had practice gun ammo.
so yeah, the USAF was taken by surprise. they got jets armed up with live bullets and bombs and in the air within a few hours, though.
>>29540737
Jokes still on you, I have UHF guard to bleat on
>>29540573
Here's the reality kiddo: there is no way to stop 100% of attacks.
Either it will be because of a change in TTPs (9/11), the easy availability of HME (Brussels, OKC), the black market for small arms (Paris), or even the legal availability of small arms for someone who would have nefarious purposes (San Bernardino).
AF fag here. First off pilots don't live inside the cockpit of flawless jets ready to go, so the response time was actually pretty damn impressive from an operational standpoint. And not knowing your age or if you remember anything from that day, but information was spotty at best back then. While bush was reading story books to kids, and we initially believed the first jet that hit in new york was some tragic accident, the FAA and military were scrambling to know just what the hell was happening. The hijackers had found a found a weak point in security and communication and exploited it.
>>29540774
i can't listen to Victor on one of my radios anyway.
>>29540860
one of the things you notice pretty quickly is how beat up the jet is inside.
>>29540877
The inside of what jet?
>>29539943
Because our thought process was not " Amy planes which DARE stray from their flight route MUST be shot down.
Military tracking is looking for bombers from Russia, not civilian airliners.
>>29540889
honestly pretty much all of them. seen the insides of a T-6, T-1, T-38, F-15E, B-1, B-52, MC-130, AC-130... the U-28 was fairly pristine but it's new and they're constantly being upgraded.
>>29540889
Hopefully not your brand-spanking-new F-22.
>0821 ATC discovers flight is hijacked
>0846 impacts tower
That's twenty five minutes to arm, launch, brief and direct aircraft to a target in a sky full of civilian airliners.
I have no idea how the fuck people think this is somehow an easy or instant process. It takes twenty minutes to scramble an attack helicopter which are far simpler than F-15's and F-16's.
>>29540947
they're like 10-15 years old on the old end now. 7 on the new end. i mean that's still really new, and a lot better than the 79-tailed F-15C's they're replacing, but...
>>29540961
>But but but in the Battle of Britain they were able to launch fighters in less than two minutes and the fact that they were on alert to literally fight a war against inbound bombers and were doing so in aircraft several orders of magnitude simpler in design, support and control in no way make my opinions cunt-fucking retarded!
>>29540034
Didn't Dick Cheney tell NORAD to stand down?
>>29540138
>If it's in mid air you're not going to Kill 3k+ people and injure twice that
>over the largest city in the U.S
>no its fine, it wouldn't kill anyone
>>29539943
I'm fairly sure prior to 9/11 USAF and ANG aircraft were not allowed to carry weapons over US airspace without a confirmed enemy interception target.
>>29539943
>rebuild twin towers
>Goalkeepers on every floor
come at me brah
>>29540214
You young fags need to remember that in the 70s and 80s hijacking airliners was like a fucking sport, usually a harmless one. The reason the whole " keep calm and do what they say" hijacking procedure existed was it always worked. It's easy to have 20 20 hindsight on our late 90s threat posture when you werent actually old enough to remember it and everything you know about the incident comes from YouTube conspiring theories.
Also what the fuck is with this idea that their is some omniscient eye in the sky watching every plane ready to strike one down at the slightest transgression. That wasn't fucking true during the cold war, 9/11, or now.
I dunno man, nor do I even really care anymore. I think the whole thing was massive BS, look at building #7. Either way, it happened, and it will happen again whether it's a false flag or terrorist attack.
>>29540937
Well ya, its 30+ years old. Think of how an 85 civic would look on the inside even if it was cleaned. Jets aren't any different
>>29540961
As OP said - its the second plane that is the issue.
>>29540267
They found plans for hijacking 747s and crashing them into the WTC when they captured the guys who tried to blow it up with a van full of (FBI supplied) explosives- all these plans and ideas from Osama were on a computer that was in one of the dudes apartment.
>>29541024
>muh building 7
It had to have been thermite. Couldn't possibly have been the huge flaming chunks of skyscraper that fell on it.
Pic related, it's you.
>>29541060
pretty sure they weren't squawking 7600...
plus i don't know if you remember what it was like that morning, but there was mass confusion. nobody knew what was going on. it took until that evening for us to know what happened.
>>29541018
>Also what the fuck is with this idea that their is some omniscient eye in the sky watching every plane ready to strike one down at the slightest transgression. That wasn't fucking true during the cold war, 9/11, or now.
You should watch the video in >>29540011
Military oversight of the whole ATC network.
>>29539943
Because this was a pretty new thing.
Most of the hijackings in recent history ended with the plane blowing up killing everyone or landing somewhere and the hijackers making demands (free so and so/$$$/something about Israel) while waiting for operators to come kill them (in the case of Egyptian operators they would go and shoot each other).
No one was even thinking that the missing jets were going to be used as weapons.
>>29540034
US air defence radars were mainly ringing the border, not acting as an enforcement method for the FAA.
And I'll note that pilots can easily miss landing and not get a fighter escort even with normal transponder operation ten years later.
>>29540034
>Where was NORAD ?
right here
>>29540237
No, they did not. The AF didn't even get a plane overhead until an hour after it crashed.
Yes there is confusion on this, because that F-16 launched from the next time zone over, which idiots used to claim it was there at the same time.
>>29541060
And the fact nobody knew where flight 175 was means they should have still been able to locate it huh
>>29540256
That weirdly built structures struck by burning debris can lose structural integrity and collapse?
>>29540256
WTC 7 which was burning for 8 hours straight somewhat collapsed
like how is that even possible yo
>>29541242
Fucking kek
>>29541319
Clearly some kind of pre-planned forward positioned explosives to destroy an evacuated burning building to prove...terrorism?
>>29541346
yup
demolition expert must have drilled those column secretly without anyone knowing,put thermite on the beams and leave no traces of any residue
>9/11 tinfoil threads with no data posted stay up
>Holocaust threads making scientific, detailed analyses of the physics and logistics that make it impossible are banned immediately
idk op
>>29539943
If they'd have shot down any of the hijacked planes, we'd be having a similarly dumb thread about how the government murdered ~300 Americans. It'd be Waco 2.0.
Once the terrorists have the planes, there is nothing anyone not on those planes can do that will make the situation not shitty.
>>29541773
>jews mentioned once as scapegoat in entire source
>blame the joos
>tinfoil
> To further undermine the Republic's credibility, right-wing extremists (especially certain members of the former officer corps) used the Dolchstoßlegende to blame an alleged conspiracy of Socialists and Jews for Germany's defeat in World War I.
>>29539943
>>29539943
Shit happens.
>pic related
Why would the US scramble aircraft that have a 5 minute engine start time?
>>29539943
Well you know, whatever.
>>29539943
Whoopsie.
>used to think there must've been some kind of controlled demolition inside of the WTC towers for them to collapse the way they did
>looked up some shit about the architecture and realized the supports basically buckled in on themselves because the building wasn't built as well as it should be
granted, there's a lot of very questionable things that happened on september 11th (see the bombs on the GW bridge that disappeared from the news) Whether or not the government was DIRECTLY involved, I'm unsure of. 9/11 was awfully convenient for a lot of very powerful people in the world.
>>29539943
>Civilians
what
>>29544472
Atc notify FAA who then notify the military
>>29541259
Ya it jumped over building 6 and erased that Enron scandal evidence in building 7.
>>29544595
>herp-de-derp-de-derp
>>29539943
Because the government let it happen.
F A L S E F L A G
>>29545476
Oh, hey, the children are posting again.
>>29545493
So are the US government shills.
>>29539943
The simplest and most likely explanation is that they just weren't prepared. Imagine being one of the civilians tracking the plane, you'd have gone to your manager like WTF and then he'd call his superiors and then eventually the decision would be made to contact he FAA where the same thing would happen, and then at USAF, etc.
>>29545586
>Imagine being one of the civilians tracking the plane,
Yeah, that's called "fucking incompetence" and it's a trademark of US government employees.
Had I been the air controller tracking the planes, I would have immediately called the air force the second something seemed amiss.
Incompetent fucking morons.
The only reason people get government jobs is because they're too incompetent to work in the private sector.
>>29545643
If it turned put to be nothing you could get fired for something like that. It was peacetime and nobody was expecting an attack like that man, why would they risk their job over something they weren't sure about?
>>29545643
>thousands of planes in the air
>four drop transdponders and go radio silent and become impossible for ATC to track
>Implying there was any kind of way to plan for the attack at the time
>>29545643
>Had I been the air controller tracking the planes, I would have immediately called the air force the second something seemed amiss.
Do you call the police every single time you see a door ajar? You're looking at it through a post-9/11 lens, which the pre-9/11 people didn't have.
>Operation Northern Vigilance
it just so happened chaney planned a military excise simulating hijackings and flooding air defense radars with false targets
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_government_operations_and_exercises_on_September_11,_2001
>>29545901
Honestly this is the one thing that always struck as very suspicious. What are the chances the terrorists could perfectly plan and coordinate their attack on the same day and time frame of this exercise? That and how a big chunk of the 9/11 commission's official report were redacted. I think the events of 9/11 happened exactly as they seemed, regarding the hijackings etc. At the same time, I also don't rule out the possibility elements of our government knew exactly what was going to happen that day and did their best to allow it to happen.
>>29546010
wasn't this what happened at Pearl harbor in WW2?
Americans knowing that Japs are gonna attack but let them so they have an excuse to join WW2 (while also having support from the population)?
>>29546035
That's what some historians say, I think us getting into WW2 was going to happen whether the Japs got the jump on us or not. We were standing in their way of them building their empire.
>>29546010
>>29546035
yes yes yes and yes.. one or more elements of the bureaucracy hides intel because their interests would benefit of the sequence of events panning out.. in both cases pearl harbor and 911 parts of the military and government actively helped along what they suspected was about to happen
>Air Force
>relevant
>competent
Its just a welfare program. The most out of all of the branches.
Hide Pro-Air Force Threads,
Ignore Pro-Air Force Posts
Do Not Reply To Air Force Posters
>>29546082
>edgelord
elements of all military branches are welfare programs...
any government job really
>>29546067
Plus at that point in the war the army was getting all the funding because of the campaigns in China, so the navy kicked the hornets nest to force a shift towards themselves.
besides 911 i suspect russian leader collude with americans to manipulate media to increase fear mongering so they can sell more bombs and rockets and shit
>>29546094
Move along
The USAF has never been good at any of its jobs.
>>29546130
It is quite possible and probable.
>>29539943
Hey ya dingus. The one that crashed in that field was shot down. They made some bullshit up about the passengers because "muh feelings"
Ask the Iranians about what happens when you let US military handle civilian air traffic.
Totally ignoring the bait, but here's a great documentary answering just that, focuses on tapes from the FAA, Air Traffic controlers and NEADS (North East Air Defense Sector).
For those not interested in watching, OP (obviously) doesn't know what he's talking about.
>>29546226
Woops, here's the link;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4Tj4XN6U_w
>>29546171
Honestly if it was shot down, they should of just admitted it. It was the right decision, sure people would be butt hurt but those passengers were fucked the second they let the tusken raiders gain control. Beats being used as a weapon to kill fellow Americans.
>>29539943
>How does the USAF fail to shoot down let alone fail to quickly respond to the attacks on 11th September 2001 ?
Because there is no need for an air guard like there is for a coast guard.
You can save those in distress on water, you can't save those in distress in the air.
>tl;dr
People float, but they also splat.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a49/1227842/
>>29546171
>>29546269
Totally not the strongest of evidence, but my detachment visited the 121st Fighter Squadron (The F-16 ANG unit that sits on standby to respond to threats over the NCR), and the squadron commander had known one of the pilots that had gone up on September 11th. It was really a case of worst possible timing for the unit, most of them were off back home after a Red Flag exercise and half of the pilots available had been sent down south for a training flight.
Hell, they weren't given the order to scramble till after the Pentagon was hit. And even then, their only option (from his own word) was that they were going to have no options but to ram a civilian airliner had they found anything. Yet they had no idea where to go, no bearing whatsoever. All they knew was that there was a plane heading for DC, and by the time they got the Pennsylvania news, flight 93 was already gone.
People tend to not understand how long it takes to ready and scramble a fighter which isn't 'warmed up' and on standby already. And how it's even more impossible to pick a needle out of a needle stack on a day like 9/11. There were failures on multiple parts, but those F-16s got nowhere near flight 93.
The US military is run by devil worshiping satanists
And it's well documented hardline satanists make human sacrifices.
I think WTC was a cultist ritual. Not the first time nor last time
>>29539943
there are no words to describe the retardedness of OP and his thread.
when OP did they know the target?
that's right, about 10 seconds before it hit.
>>29539943
>Four ( 4 ) airliners
how many airliners, OP?
>>29546464
>I think WTC was a cultist ritual.
would make sense desu
>>29540597
No, from what I remember the US was more concerned with disgruntled employees setting fire to their place of business, as seen in the documentary Office Space.
>>29546464
It's also documented that being sacrificed is seen as an honor and self sacrifice is seen as an even greater honor.
Satanism is literally just Jesus with horns, I've read the literature.
>>29546140
>implying
>>29546157
fox news war war terror war war war hot milfs drugs islam ebola bombs
>>29539943
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=we9AviBVNkM
NORAD was contacted and jets were already in the air before they got within 10mi of the WTC
>>29539943
Why did the U.S not have the foresight to predict Pearl Harbour?
>>29546662
pearl harbor was also an inside job.
just your kike kabal for a government killing goyim to trick them into war as usual.
all these good goyim in this thread
>>29539943
Pilots were ordered to stand down, this is public information......
Have you watched loose change?
>>29546702
loose butthole change
>>29546691
Hi schlomo, good to see JIDF on watch
>>29546675
All jobs are inside jobs.
>>29546702
This.
Also great documentaries on this subject and the standdown.
This was a false flag (not saying controlled demolition or anything, google what a false flag is), we invaded Iraq despite the 19 hijackers being Saudi nationals and backed by the Saudi Arabian government.
>>29546724
>despite the 19 hijackers being Saudi nationals
Yes.
>backed by the Saudi Arabian government.
Wew lad.
>>29546732
Nice argument, great points.
The 9/11 report "secret pages" is still sealed for this reason. It reveals the saudi arabian backing of the hijackers.
Saudi arabia is the fountainhead of wahhabist and islamic terrorism. They officially fund hundreds of islamist groups around the world.
We dont do anything because they are a great ally of the Bush and Clinton family and also oil and weapons contracts en masse.
Browse this archive.
http://www.911truth.org/tag/saudi-arabia/
The evidence is overwhelming.
>>29540983
>being constantly under raid threat from nazi planes in a relatively clear airspace is the same as searching for 3 planes that were hijacked without any warning in the continental US
They kept their shit on the runways for the Battle of Britain because there was a legitimate risk of "nazis just show up"
America,being defended on two sides by fuck huge oceans, doesn't maintain jets ready for combat at any second because we had never really come under an air attack before, certainly not from hijacked planes turned into cruise missiles.
The environment was saturated with other airliners, most of the jets weren't ready for combat, and your propeller planes with .30s are not the same as jet powered flying computer missile platforms.
>>29546732
http://www.911truth.org/lawsuit-could-reveal-saudi-complicity-911/
>NY Post
http://www.911truth.org/explosive-saudi-911-evidence-still-ignored-media/
>Whowhatwhy
http://www.911truth.org/saudi-role-hidden-911-report-pages/
>Newsweek
>>29546702
JESUS CHRIST
"Loose Change" and "Zeitgeist" are fucking studio productions.
They were NOT made by desperate truthers with insider knowledge fleeing for their lives from the financial mafia, desperately recording under abare lightbulb while hiding in a dark unknown basement.
THEY ARE PRODUCTIONS.
And it's thinly veiled religious propaganda. Saying stuff like Jesus is a recurring figure. Big whoop. I've been to Branson Missouri and I got really upset to see Yakov Smirnoff doing the same show over and over.... but that's what the world is. The powers that be found a winning formula and stuck with it.
>>29546772
>The evidence is overwhelming.
Wew lad. You talking about that nigger that ended up knowing nothing or the 9/11 papers that were classified to hide identitys of contacts?
>>29540660
kek
Pic from another event where people failed to have a mindset shift in a timely manner.
>>29546860
>literally give you an archive of evidence
>where is the evidence?
I have no idea what you are talking about but nice straw man. If you would spend 30mins in the archive you would probably learn alot. But I dont think you will actually do that, because you already believe one thing and any evidence to the contrary will be ignored, correct?
>wew lad
>>29546269
Even if it was shot down its better for morale to say that the brave American passengers acrificed their lives to save many, blah blah blah, heroism, blah blah end of darkness blah blah justice will be ours blah blah
Im out, it is obvious that you guys are denying the self evident evidences that are out there. Keep keeping your eyes closed sheepel.
If you want to know more about how they are fooling you read noam chomsky or better yet watch zeitgeist.
>>29546889
Yeah we even have phony calls from the plane to prove that they wuz heros.
Ignore the fact that cell calls could not physically be made from that flight.
>>29546464
>USAF
>most evangelically Christian branch
>run by satanists
Yeah, ok.
>>29546883
No, i had getting on two decades now of looking through evidence.
The moment, the MOMENT, i saw the classified section of the 9/11 report (which i read in full), i already knew what was comeing.
Shit is not classified to hide secrets, its to protect people from actual, real world harm.
But that is just lost on you, gotta have that conspiracy.
>>29546910
>be christian
>use satanic symbolism
Nah these liars are not fooling me.
>>29546904
They are the same as the gun control crowd.
They don't give two fucks about the actual evidence which is in plain sight. They are firm in their beliefs and they have zero skepticism.
They buy what they are told to buy and thats the end, all evidence contrary to their preconceived notions is ignored.
http://www.pilotsfor911truth.org
http://www.ae911truth.org
http://www.911truth.org/tag/foia/
and
http://www.ae911truth.org/evidence.html
>>29546923
>Shit is not classified to hide secrets.
Thats exactly why it is classified. Are you military?
>>29546960
Context. We are not talking about equipment or tatics.
I guess you can argue they are trying to hide the secret identity of the informent
>>29546904
>watch zeitgeist.
Is this a joke?
>>29546943
Am.... Am I supposed to see something here?
>>29546948
>911truth
Ahahahahaha
Hahahahahahaha
You know what? Keep on being delusional and living in your fantasy world disinformation, lack of sources and lies at the absolute worst prove to you that the impossible happened. Sit atop your throne of moral and mental superiority, but you're going to live on knowing that no one gives a shit, that no one cares, you're irrelevant and no matter how much you scream at the sheeple nothing is going to change.
Keep on being the man dragged out of the cave, I'm sure that chip on your shoulder and sources like 911truth will save you.
>>29546907
>Ignore the fact that cell calls could not physically be made from that flight.
If i prove this wrong will you stop being a truther?
>>29547007
drop the act I already know you know damn well what Im talking about
>muh USAF is christian
>>29546973
>or tatics.
Not necessarily, intercept tactics, tracking civilian airliners in the continental United States, ANG cold sortie times, how NEADS coordinates with the FAA, all things right off the top of my head which can be potentially classified.
>>29547034
Masons played a huge, huge part in the founding of the country.
Is this some secret?
You know those old fucks who wear silly hats and runs a hospital for sick kids at no cost to them? Shiners?
Spoiler alert: >they are all ex freemasons
Best fucking gunshow i ever went too.
>>29546904
>self evident evidences
kek
>>29547041
Yes, thats my point.
>>29547079
So we agree that people seeing pages with [classified] on them and screaming BUSH DID 9/11 are speaking about things they don't really understand?
>>29547097
Yeup.
After all these years, it does not matter anymore. Dumb fucks are set in their ways
>>29547033
Sure. But you also need to disprove a lot of other evidence.
ie: Freefall, nanothermite,norad standdown, saudi connections, secret pages, CIA funding, the ability for sandniggers with no formal training to fly a jumbo jet and maneuver it into am extremely small target at hundreds of miles an hour.
>>29547121
>Sure. But you also need to disprove a lot of other evidence.
So....No then?
>>29547013
I provided you with sources that convinced me of the truth I cannot force you to actual read them and make up your own mind.
>Hahahaha
>meaningless rhetoric
>buzzwords
>>29547139
>"sources"
>i saw it on the Internet, it must be true
>>29547136
if you can disprove the evidence for it being a false flag and inside job, then I will certainly take back my truther status.
>>29547034
>>29546943
>Satanic symbolism
>Not just two pictures of people looking at the observer
>Not just two pictures that both have objects draw with similar angles
You are a confirmed fucking retard. I hope the ATF breaks into your home and uses your dog's skull as an improvised suppressor
>>29547151
Thats not what i asked you kiddo.
It was a real easy, yes or no, question.
Yes thats enough, or no its not.
>>29547149
Strawman
the links I provided all have their sources cited and linked. If you clicked the links amd spent 5 mins you would have none that.
Ignorance is strength I guess
>>29547172
No its not enough.
If there was 100 pieces of evidence saying yes, and you disproved 1 of them, there is still overwhelming evidence.
>>29547186
Ok then.
Hey, Air Force
Why don't you do your jobs instead of holding stupid fundraisers all the fucking time? You fat shits.
Signed everyone else
>>29547121
>Freefall, nanothermite
Honestly, 100% be honest with us here anon.
Just admit you're not going to change your opinion no matter what we, or anyone else will ever say? It's like playing whack-a-mole, one contrived little point of 'evidence' is disproved on its face, so you scramble for something new no matter how extreme it is. You point to experts, of which you have none relevant, (sorry, a nuclear engineer is not a structural engineer or a demolitions expert) despite the that if all of this evidence you purport to be fact was actual truth it wouldn't work whatsoever. The conspiracy theorist story is inconsistent at best and non-existent at worst.
You're in the same league as Moon landing conspirators, Holocaust deniers and Anti-Vaxxers anon. If you just throw a hundred unsourced claims and 'facts' at a wall something is going to stick right?
>>29547173
>sources
I'm visiting NYC in may, coming from europoor, where are some good places/states to go to shoot some guns outside? Preferably no more than 8hour drive from NY city.
>>29547204
No I wont admit that because it isnt true.
I am 100% open to any information.
But specifically the whole freefall thing and the fact jet fuel could not have brought down the towers are convincing me otherwise.
Someone give me links.
the ae911 truth and pilots websites both convinced me of an inside job
i was just listening to experts because i myself am not qualified but structural and civil engineere and professional pilots are
>>29547064
I'm a mason. Most of our big fundraisers are like pancake breakfasts and the sale of delicious kolachis for the local boy scouts and poor kids who need school supplies.
So unless the very nice old czech woman who makes delicious pastries is a secret Nazi who murders children, I really enjoy all my friends in the lodge.
>>29541773
> Some Jews were commies
> some more commits fought with small arms
> kill all Jews because of this
/pol/ everyone
>>29547274
Jet fuel cant melt steel beams.
>>29545643
> being an elitist retard
I guarantee you aren't doing well in life mate
>>29547278
This was a shriner gunshow. I got a beautiful early 90s marlin 336 from there from some old guy. He threw in a leather sling for free. Cant remeber the price but it was good.
It was small, not croweded, and lots of guns. Just how i like it.
>>29547274
Jet fuel doesn't have to melt steel beams. As metal is heated it becomes softer. High rise buildings are designed to support themselves by spreading weight evenly across their steel framework. Prolonged exposure to the heat of the fire weakened the structural integrity enough that the buildings could no longer support themselves. It's why they collapsed downward but not inward. Tower 1 and Tower 2 collapsed faster as they had gaping holes in the structure due to the planes hitting them.
>>29547274
>the ae911 truth and pilots websites both convinced me of an inside job
AE911 'truth' are not experts. Their petition (which asks for a 'further investigation,' which can mean anything and does NOT mean that all the signers agree there was some kind of inside job) has the names of less than 1% of the engineers in the US on it. Those professionals have utterly failed to convince their peers in any way.
Moreover, AE911 'truth' has received tens or hundreds of dollars in donations. Enough to do their own investigations. Yet Richard "these falling cardboard boxes prove inside job" Gage only uses the money to pay himself a nice salary to travel around the world, show the exact same powerpoint presentation for years on end and promote himself so he can keep doing this.
If you're looking for liars and conmen, might want to look at your own sources first.
>>29547274
Eat a dick nigger. The temperature of burning fuel weakens steel massively to the point it can't support significant weight. It doesn't have to fucking melt to fail.
>>29547311
>>29547334
Honestly it always gets me when people are like "hurr illumenarty! Mason!"
Literally 90% of our cash goes to poor kids. We managed to actually raise enough money from the community last year to pay for a little girl with cystic fibrosis a double lung transplant.
Please tell us how we are killing America.
Anyway, but yeah, a lot of us also work really closely with the shriners. We share a lodge in our town.
>>29539943
because jumbo jets are the fastest planes on CONUS
>>29546405
One of my IFF instructors was a pilot at that unit on that day and said basically everything you said.
>>29546614
that's nice. given the distances, the fighters would take about 10 minutes to get there, whereas the airliners would take about 2 minutes.
>>29547274
I have a master's in materials engineering with an emphasis on structural materials and composites. >>29547460 and >>29547516 are 100% correct. Additionally, creep deformation explains a lot of the issue here.
>>29547034
Masons are a Christian Fraternity, dipshit.
>>29546724
The fact that the douchebag who made that tripe is still also be is proof it's a bullshit video.
>>29539943
It doesn't matter if you shot down the planes or not the thermite charges still would have went off regardless
>>29539943
>"I don't know what the world was like before 9/11"
>>29547151
So, the tapes of Osama actively enjoying his plan going off almost perfectly don't count?
>>29547274
>I am 100% open to any information
Unless it contradicts you "muh inside jerb" nonsense.
>>29548173
This. The world pre-9/11 was so much more different then today. At least, that is the case for the western hemisphere.
>>29547742
How the fuck did my phone change "alive" to "also be"?
>>29545464
$2.3 trillion debt erased when the pentagon was hit? Explosions in building 7 before the towers collapsed?
>>29549224
>Explosions in building 7 before the towers collapsed?
Source?
>>29549360
>there are seriously people who don't know this
Israelis did 9/11, this is not even a meme.
>>29549360
He doesn't have one because he's just parroting truther bullshit.
typical truther response lol
>/pol/ raids
>>29549224
Here's something I never understood about the truther movement.
They constantly bring up WTC 7.
Why would the US government blow up WTC-7?
Were the two big towers with 2,000 plus people in them not good enough?
Were there people in the spring of 2003 going "REMEMBER WTC 7 IT'S TIME TO FUCK THOSE ARABS UP I WOULDN'T BE ON BOARD WITH THIS WAS IF IT WEREN'T FOR THOSE EXTRA 50 FATALITIES"
>>29546611
Not so hot after attacking Trump lol
She's aged a decade this year.
>>29549530
Because they don't understand that it's possible for there to be that kind of damage as a secondary effect of catastrophic impacts.
>>29549530
B-BUT THERE WERE SECRET NSA DOCUMENTS IN THERE! A-AND TH-THE BEST WAY TO PURGE THEM WAS To DESTROY THE BUILDING WITH THERMITE
T-The Building owner said 'pull it' to the fire people because the building was in danger of collapse which OBVIOUSLY MEANS CONTROLED DEMOLITION
FUCKING SHEEPLE
>>29549360
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmeY2vJ6ZoA
While you're at it:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka8muGhlciA
>>29549855
Hate to burst your bubble bud, but;
>One tank holding 6,000 gallons of fuel was in the building to provide power to the command bunker on the 23rd floor. Another set of four tanks holding as much as 36,000 gallons were just below ground on the building's southwest side for generators that served some of the other tenants.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/29/nyregion/29TOWE.html?pagewanted=all
>Date; November 2001.
But you got it, not-at-all-biased youtube videos.
>>29549530
$70 billion dollar California electricity swindle disappeared with building 7 and they collected $4.5 billion insurance for the total WTC damage.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEuJimaumW4
>>29549945
Also, anyone with the lightest understand of psychology or even law knows that eye-witness accounts are incredibly fallible, especially in the immediate aftermath of the event. If someone is visibly shaken, having just experienced the worst moment of their life, they aren't going to be a good source.
It's the same case with people saying there were 'explosions' in the towers, a noise which could have been caused by any hundreds of events which can happen in conjuncture with being stuck in the middle of not only an airline crash, but an uncontrolled high rise fire, and then finally a collapse.
>>29549945
So you're saying they exploded before the towers collapsed?
>>29550012
Okay then look at the video evidence. The video that shows a plane has no background and the video that shows a background has no plane.
>>29546035
That's another bullshit myth.
The greatest extend that was known was theat that Japanese were about to go to war in the Pacific. Neither any specifi date nor target was known, and Pearl was rather very far the list of suspects when compared to just about anywhere in the Philippines or Dutch East Indies.
>>29550237
Holy shit are you actually, seriously arguing that a plane didn't hit the second tower? For real?
What cruise missile/meticulously planted explosive would create damage clearly consistent with a an airliner? Right down to the fucking wingtips?
And eyewitnesses seeing a FUCKING AIRPLANE hit the towers is in no way comparable to people being confused by 'explosion' sounds in what is an obviously chaotic situation.
But shit, what do I know? I only just watched the second tower get hit live. That's all.
>>29550237
>Crappy cameras for shooting 480p max footage quality or worse
>>29550504
It's settled
Gliders did 9/11
As much as I'd like to say "inside job"for why there wasn't a quick response the attacks happend so fast and there was so much confusion that you can't fault anyone at that point. The true conspiracy lies before the attacks and after with the disregard for FBI warnings and the covering up of Saudi involvement.
>>29550504
I'm just looking at the evidence.
>clearly consistent with an airliner
Here's a video of a plane wing failing to cut through a telephone pole:
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CZxvu85VM4
>eye witnesses
You just said eye witnesses don't count and the plane witnesses don't agree on what kind of plane they saw.
>i watched the second tower get hit live
They didn't have to make the composites live.
How do you explain the damage to that police car i posted?
>>29545901
Would /k/ bang Rice?
>>29540505
In the book Ghost Fleet they use kamakazi drones I think we should train against that too.
>>29547274
Is "Jet fuel can't melt steel beams" the Godwin's Law of 9/11 discussion?
>>29550237
Oh shit we at "no planes" now
Full tinfoil.
>>29550741
I'd jizz in her open mouth and try to make it in between the gap.
>>29550806
Naw once you get to "flat earth level" then you're at full tin foil.
>>29550806
>>29545476
Oh look, it's raining contrails again, time to open up my tinfoil umbrella.
>>29547516
The only way to conclusively prove this is to build two new towers, exact replicas of the originals, let them sit for 20 years and then repeat it and see if building 7 collapses.
>>29550821
Nasty.
I like you.
>>29550835
Flat earth is so ridiculous that I am certain it's all satire, no-one could be this tinfoil right?
>>29550917
I watched a story about a woman having a chat with Grey aliens on a street corner and going for a ride in their flying saucer to Zeta Reticuli on the History Channel.
>>29550710
>You just said eye witnesses don't count and the plane witnesses don't agree on what kind of plane they saw.
>thinking americans are smart enough to know exactly what type of plane it was and agree
>>29550710
>1964 quad prop engines
>2001 dual jet engines
Guys the planes are exactly the smae
guys seriously
guys
>>29547121
You don't need formal training to fly a jumbo jet, amateurs can log quality training on commercial (or open source) flight simulators all the time and handle the aircraft just fine without prior experience.
>>29550710
>JASSM cruise missile
Entered service in 2009, has a wingspan of 7 feet and is 14 feet long. A 767 has a wingspan of 156 feet and is 159 feet in length. No one, NO ONE is going to confuse those two you fucking mongoloid, and a JASSM isn't going to make a tilted impact point which is 150 feet in length.
>You just said eye witnesses don't count and the plane witnesses don't agree on what kind of plane they saw.
Eyewitnesses are notoriously wrong about details and particulars. If you see someone get shot you're going to know that hey, shit someone got shot. Where it becomes fuzzy is the details around that, what did he look like? When did it happen? What kind of handgun? All of those can be influenced by coaching, inserting prior knowledge, filling the 'memory vacuum', retro-active memory. On 9/11. people are going to remember seeing a plane hitting the tower because that's THE vivid event, other situations following that may very well be muddled by being caught in a terrorist attack.
>>29551034
>little black plane
>large white plane
>>29551149
You really think he just imagined an explosion in the basement and then seeing someone with their skin melted off?
>>29550741
20 years ago, definitely.
>>29547121
>Freefall, nanothermite,norad standdown, saudi connections, secret pages, CIA funding, the ability for sandniggers with no formal training to fly a jumbo jet and maneuver it into am extremely small target at hundreds of miles an hour.
Nonsensical and factually wrong conspiracy theories do not qualify as evidence.
>>29550973
No, actually, that's not the only way to conclusively prove it to anyone with even the slightest actual understanding of how this shit works. For those people with a semblance of an actual idea instead of pure ignorance or worse than useless conspiracy-theory delusions, things like computer models and specialist assessments are more than good enough. FFS, modern computer simulations are good enough to have rendered nuclear bomb tests entirely redundant because the computer can simulate an event as complex as a nuclear detonation reliably down to the details.
>>29551252
People have imagined crazier bullshit in situations a whole lot less stressful than that.
