![1459956393815[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/JBJJgug.png "1459956393815[1].png")
Shoot/Don't Shoot
Post the timestamp of when you believe you would utilize deadly force to neutralize the target.
Discuss this event and the circumstances behind the utilization of the the officer's handgun.
Discuss if non-lethal options would have been appropriate.
Discuss what kind of handgun the officer was carrying and assume what kind of ammunition was loaded in it.
>>29512006
Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVe7bx_CaSU&nohtml5=False
>>29512006
Personally I would have deaded this guy at exactly 2:45.
Watching without sound, when did he fire?
Also, I'd shoot at 1:53 when he pulls out the knife.
>>29512083
He fires one round as soon as the knife comes out, he then retreats.
>>29512006
Shoot the fuck out of him as soon as i see the knife.
Only one reason to pull out a knife like that when you are talking to a cop, and thats to get stabby.
>>29512006
Fire rounds center mass and retreat, once he gets up, shoot him in the leg so he can't get up again.
Boot shouldn't have been so aggressive with the dude, he was just walking down the highway.
>WHAT'S YOUR NAME
>WHERE'S YOUR ID
>WHAT'S YOUR SSN
>WHAT'S IN THE BAG
>TIME FOR A PAT DOWN BECAUSE I SAID SO
But, ultimately when it came to it, the shooting was justified.
As soon as he pulled the knife and said "I kill you" around 2 min mark I would have Mozambique drilled him.
>>29512006
I like how the cop is merciful regardless of that guy charging him multiple times. I probably would have killed him. 10/10 would buy a beer.
>>29512154
So another case of no good guys?
>>29512006
Was that read car (Hyundai?) an unmarked patrol car? Or a civilian's car? Because if it was the latter, they let this guy walk too far before stopping him. Imagine what would have happened if he had managed to jump in and take the occupants hostage.
Would have been nice if someone had a Taser. No need to delay and see if this guy could be talked down. He's not cooperating. Just light him up.
>>29512164
As always.
>>29512012
Now that is some fantastic trigger control. No mag dumping, just a single "pop" with a round on target.
>>29512165
He was subdued finally by taser. Also:
Lol only 9mm
>>29512154
I don't think he was aggressive, but in this case, his suspicion was correct either way.
>>29512154
>Boot shouldn't have been so aggressive with the dude, he was just walking down the highway.
You cant walk down the highway, simple as that. He was also walking with traffic instead of agaisnt it, a double no no.
Walking on the highway is a good way to get killed. There is simply no time to stop or slow down when coming upon a pedestrian.
The issue is not "WELL HE CAN BE DUMB IF HE WANTS TO, IF HE GETS KILLED ITS ON HIM!", he is actively putting others in danger by doing that.
>>29512199
>You cant walk down the highway, simple as that.
So he's supposed to walk innawoods then?
>>29512206
He is supposed to not walk on the highways, as simple as that.
>>29512216
What about on the side of it, but not directly on it? Is one required to have a car to be allowed to travel?
Only in America will they shoot you for walking on the side of the road.
>>29512154
You're not allowed to walk on an interstate, and required to provide identifying information if asked. I'd say thr cop wasn't an asshole at all.
>>29512231
>What about on the side of it, but not directly on it?
The grass outside the shoulder is fine, median grass or shoulder is a no go. Median grass not good due to you having to walk on the highway to get there.
>>29512251
>required to provide identifying information
No, you're not.
>>29512256
If you're being detained you are. Having said that, walking on the side of the road shouldn't equal detaining. Honestly this cop doesn't seem like a huge cunt. He wasn't being a dick and he fired once then retreated.
>>29512251
>and required to provide identifying information if asked.
I thought the US still doesn't have a mandatory ID requirement?
Though it's pretty much de facto with drivers licenses
>>29512266
walking along a hwy is illegal in some places and walking in the wrong direction is illegal in most places
>>29512282
You have to provide drivers license if you are driving, but just walking, no.
>>29512251
>>29512256
You are only required to provide identification if you are being legally detained.
>>29512282
>>29512300
if you are being detained you have to provide your id
>>29512294
Walking on the interstate is illegal everywhere, its federal law.
>>29512231
Not him, but I think it would be legal, yeah.
The problem is walking on the highway or close enough that if a car somehow veers off you become a casualty.
Besides, aren't there other places one could be traveling by foot to another state? If you're walking near a highway, maybe you do need help or something happened.
idk, it felt justified for me.
>>29512313
>aren't there other places one could be traveling by foot to another state?
Gosh, if only there were a paved, straight path directly there.
>>29512313
>maybe you do need help or something happened.
thats why the police stop people who are walking on the hwy
>>29512313
>Besides, aren't there other places one could be traveling by foot to another state?
Like, other highways? I don't know what it's like in the States, but here in Finland your choice is in general the highway or innawoods and the distances are a lot greater on that side of the Atlantic.
>>29512322
yeah and thats for cars.
>>29512006
>guy has knife lunges towards you while yelling shoot me kill me
>you shoot him
>???
>public outrage
So its the polices' job to protect you from yourself now!?
the only thing this officer did wrong was only shoot once, he should have shot multiple times and killed him. you increase the chance of being criminally charged/sued by not killing the suspect.
>>29512006
Never should have shot. Should have used a baton or flash light and knocked the knife out. Simple as that.
>>29512363
nice b8
>>29512363
Ok bruce lee.
>>29512006
At first I thought it was a muslim girl wearing nothing but the top robe and she has her legs spread wide and the camera was taken from a certain angle
>>29512372
>>29512371
If I was a cop that's what I'd do. Or ya know, taser.
>>29512349
>So its the polices' job to protect you from yourself now!?
Actually yes. Hence they try stopping you from suiciding yourself whenever you're causing a scene.
This one however is different since its a cunt assaulting the officer and I believe his shotting was justified.
>>29512154
Honestly would you be arrasted and jailed for not remembering the social security numbers without a slip of paper that has it written down?
>>29512302
correct, but in this instance, he broke the law walking on the interstate in a non emergent manner., and was being lawfully detained.
>>29512413
if you were a cop you would have learned that you use lethal force when lethal force is presented to you
>>29512294
>walking is illegal
>>29512440
yes when its along an interstate. something called federal law
>>29512440
No anon, walking on a highway is illegal.
I know things like these are hard for you...but keep at it!
>>29512154
Yeah I gotta agree. Dude was walking along minding his own business. Was there a crime being investigated and a reason to suspect the guy? If not there was no reason to hassle him in the first place and none of this needed to happen.
This man was cooperative and didnt offer any violence until the policeman made it clear he was going to violate his rights by performing an illegal search on him.
Once he draws the knife and charges it's hard to fault the cop for responding but this never should have happened to begin with.
And the cops here sound genuinely afraid, I think they were in a panic. That doesn't speak well to their training. Even if we assume it had to happen, it was not actually all that dangerous of a situation, a cop should be able to deal with situations much more serious than one old guy with a knife without losing his head.
>>29512431
No, the officer was trying to figure out why the fuck was walking on the highway, is he in trouble or just transient.
>>29512453
>Was there a crime being investigated and a reason to suspect the guy?
Yes.
Try to pay attention, buddy.
>>29512126
>shoot him in the leg
>get sued
lolno
>>29512165
I'd really like to know this. If I was in that car, my ass would've been out of there.
The cop really kept his cool. I'd buy him a beer.
>>29512453
>Was there a crime being investigated and a reason to suspect the guy?
Yes, read the thread.
>by performing an illegal search on him.
He was breaking the law and being legally detained.
>And the cops here sound genuinely afraid, I think they were in a panic.
Yeah, almost being killed has an effect on people.
> it was not actually all that dangerous of a situation
Getting stabbed is not all that dangerous?
>without losing his head.
He shot once and retreated. He did not lose his head.
It sounds like you want robots to enforce the law.
>>29512096
>>29512116
>>29512126
>>29512154
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>>29512161
>>29512164
>>29512165
>>29512179
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>>29512199
>>29512206
>>29512216
>>29512231
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>>29512266
>>29512282
>>29512294
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>>29512313
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>>29512325
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>>29512349
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>>29512413
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>>29512439
>>29512440
>>29512449
>>29512451
>>29512451
>>29512453
>>29512459
>>29512461
Hey lets not do any of the stuff in the OP and just discuss the legality of walking on the highway.
>>29512012
>Post the timestamp of when you believe you would utilize deadly force to neutralize the target.
1:52 - at that point he had resisted arrest in a forceful manner, walked into the highway and pulled out a knife, i think it's safe to assume he was planning on stabbing me at this point
>Discuss this event and the circumstances behind the utilization of the the officer's handgun.
>Discuss if non-lethal options would have been appropriate.
-Thick Jacket, taser ineffective on thicker clothing as the prongs wont penetrate
-pepper spray, might have caused a traffic accident this close to the highway endangering other people
-physical force, could possibly be stabbed to death
>Discuss what kind of handgun the officer was carrying and assume what kind of ammunition was loaded in it.
Standard issue and probably hollow points.
>>29512467
Shouldn't get sued for the less lethal option, but I guess that US law for you.
>>29512453
>And the cops here sound genuinely afraid, I think they were in a panic. That doesn't speak well to their training. Even if we assume it had to happen, it was not actually all that dangerous of a situation, a cop should be able to deal with situations much more serious than one old guy with a knife without losing his head.
The guy pulled a knife on the cop and the cop shot on him, he is then presented with a situation where he is alone without backup for X amount of time with a man who is shouting 'Kill me' and 'I'll kill you' over and over as he advances on him, pushing him out into the interstate that is still filled with cars. This is followed by the police then being pushed back towards civilian cars where other injuries may occur because they don't want to fucking kill someone, be they bystanders caught in a crossfire or even the clearly unhinged man with the knife. If anything, they acted very professionally in this situation.
Not even going to start with;
>This man was cooperative and didnt offer any violence until the policeman made it clear he was going to violate his rights by performing an illegal search on him.
>>29512479
Ok.
>>29512479
4chan. What the fuck did you expect? Ops topic was uninteresting, and done to death. /k/ has a general consensus that is known well enough.
>words
If someone threatens you with lethal force, even as a joke, they are qualified to die.
>more words
some kind of bullshit I dont care about, something that hasnt been invented yet, or costs too much to field and is not relilable.
>survey, post a timestamp, Discuss, Discuss, Discuss.
No. Thanks for the instructions, but Im done wasting my time responding to this. The video was interesting, the thread was not.
>>29512453
>violate his rights by performing an illegal search on him.
kek no
>>29512006
Cop handled the situation well. I would have shot right when he did. Guy seemed more suicidal than aggressive, so I would have tried to talk him down earlier but cop ended up doing that. Well done.
>>29512485
A GUN NO MATTER WHERE YOU SHOOT IS A DEADLY WEAPON
why are people so uneducated
![pQo7e8E[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xWPAeGa.jpg "pQo7e8E[1].jpg")
>>29512512
>easy to follow instructions to keep a topic on point in relation to the fact that this is a /k/ thread about weapons and utilizing weapons
FUCK YOU I DO WHAT I WANT LETS TALK ABOUT WALKING LAWS FUCK YOUR THREAD I HATE IT
lol ok sperg lord
>>29512485
Has little to do with specific laws, works the same way in any country with similar civil law systems. Shoot to kill or not at all, otherwise you are opening yourself to a lawsuit.
>>29512530
And he's not going to die from a shot below the knee in an area with access to modern healthcare. The idea of assault with a deadly weapon in itself is flawed. Anything and everything can be a deadly weapon. You can literally punch people to death. As I said, US law.
another evil white cop shooting an innocent minority, one day us minority's will rise until the white man no longer exists.
Daily reminder to keep calm and fuck the police.
Bunch of untrained, undisciplined, trigger happy murder fetishists.
>Oh no! Its different this time. I didnt mean to magdump my friend, I was just itching to murder someone legally because I got bullied in high school!
And before you all start calling me edan angst filled teen, I was a sworn LEO myself for 3 years and quit because of the horseshit I witnessed in that department. The police state is real.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ju8avzdLGN8
>>29512567
Edgy.
>>29512543
It's not like that in Finland. In self defence, you're only supposed to use the amount of force necessary to stop immediate harm to yourself. So if someone is running at you with a knife, you can shoot to kill, but if you can disable him without any real risk to yourself, you're legally obliged to do so, instead of killing him.
>>29512154
This post is a snapshot of how embarrassingly naive most people are when it comes to law enforcement
When LEOs catch you doing something wrong, they want to check their system to make sure you aren't someone with a history of doing wrong, or check if you have a warrant out.
If you think he was being aggressive for fulfilling the duties of his occupation and politely asking them suspect questions, then I wonder what you would have him do instead.
>>29512556
im not talking about us law here im talking about police protocol and police training. a gun is a deadly weapon, if you use it its to kill not wound.
shooting in any other way other than kill is not how the police are trained and it opens them up to being sued or criminally charged
pic related a dumbed down use of force chart
>>29512567
didn't think they had body cams in the 1970's.
>>29512479
You must be OP because nobody else would give a fuck about the direction of this thread
>>29512598
I'd actually like to see a case where someone was sued for intentionally wounding an attacker instead of killing them.
Pretty sure it is just a fudd myth.
>>29512588
Try to help instead of treating everyone like a criminal.
But that's not the state of the world we're living in any more. People are shitty, so cops are shitty as a result.
>>29512582
https://youtube.com/watch?v=iHC4j0UZI64
Fuck the police. The only good pig is a dead pig.
>>29512609
And sweet ass Ford pickups.
>>29512588
He should fuck off and kill himself.
Cops don't have an obligation to protect our serve, they just do it when it's convenient. They're literally worthless leeches.
"ACCIDENTALLY" :-)))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZBS_p-NVFI
>>29512012
The cop's forearms are fucking swole
mirin
>>29512626
>Try to help instead of treating everyone like a criminal.
If you're walking on the side of the highway you are a criminal.
>>29512628
WTF, thats bullshit
>>29512642
And you commit three felonies a day. Fuck off.
>>29512598
>im not talking about us law here im talking about police protocol and police training. a gun is a deadly weapon, if you use it its to kill not wound.
>shooting in any other way other than kill is not how the police are trained and it opens them up to being sued or criminally charged
Well that's just stupid. No wonder they always magdump into people who only pose a moderate threat that could be reliably neutralized with a single shot into a limb.
>>29512473
>Yes, read the thread.
Walking should not be a crime. Nor being poor.
>He was breaking the law and being legally detained.
See above. Nothing he did was legitimately illegal, therefore the detention was not legal, therefore the search was not legal.
>Yeah, almost being killed has an effect on people.
Didn't look to me like he almost got killed, not at all. I'm sure he got an adrenaline jolt when the guy pulled the knife, but I didn't see him actually try to do any damage with it. Looked to me like he was trying to commit suicide by cop, not to kill anyone.
Like I say, he yanks that thing out at close range anyone would get excited. One shot and retreat is reasonable. But once he retreated and realized or should have realized that he wasn't actually under any threat and calmed down.
It could have been worse but they still seem quite green and over-excited in the later phases of this.
I don't want robots to enforce the law I just want the people enforcing the law to be well trained and understand their jobs.
Reminder that for every good cop there are a dozen rotten ones.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVmGWLsn0iM
>>29512646
Dont worry. The district attorney ruled that the officer accidentally drew and fired his sidearm TWICE into the suspects head and neck, killing him. Accidentally. No charges filed. He is still protecting and serving the shit out of you.
>>29512654
>And you commit three felonies a day
That may or may not be but it doesn't change the fact that if you're walking on the side of the highway you are subject to being legally detained.
>>29512625
I'm pretty sure those suits happen because they want to make it look like you intended to kill them but failed and then get your money.
>>29512083
this is correct
>>29512628
That cop is a fucking psychopath that needs to be in a rubber room.
>>29512656
they are trained to shoot until the threat stops, thats why you see the "magdumps". shooting to wound is unrealistic in many ways but its also not how they are trained. more people need to realize this and look and a use of force continuum
>>29512658
this has to be premium bait, I mean come on now what are you fishing for, a whale?
>>29512626
Can't help someone who won't help himself.
The cop had to get that dude off the highway, and he couldn't do it safely without checking the guy for weapons before letting him in his vehicle.
>>29512636
>dehumanizing those you disagree with
That's an immature mindset
>>29512658
>Didn't look to me like he almost got killed, not at all. I'm sure he got an adrenaline jolt when the guy pulled the knife, but I didn't see him actually try to do any damage with it. Looked to me like he was trying to commit suicide by cop, not to kill anyone.
Yeah man, you're totally going to be calm as fuck once you realize the knife toting man who swung at you and is now yelling he's going to kill you is totally not a threat at all.
Hindsight is a bitch anon.
>>29512674
He didnt even look distressed or anything, he was like fuck-em pop and re holstered his gun smooth as fuck.
>>29512700
They dehumanized themselves
>>29512695
Clearly there's room for improvement in US police training programs then. How long do they last in general?
>>29512656
>single shot into a limb
>suspect bleeds out and dies slowly gasping on the ground
That is not a better alternative. Despite your best efforts you cannot sanitize the work that police do every day.
When you enter a hostile environment and your attempts to defuse it aren't working, the options left to you are limited. When a threat presents itself, there are even fewer options.
I'm not trying to justify all police shootings, but I want to have this discussion on a level field where we both understand what the officer is going through at the time of the shooting.
>>29512700
> he dindu nuffin he waz just tryin to help!
When your "help" ends in cold blooded murder 10% of the time you can keep it to yourself.
The guy was likely mentally ill, and wouldn't have hurt anyone else without provocation.
>>29512737
no there is no room for improvement. when presented with deadly force the police need to use deadly force. again look at the force continuum, you match the suspect not go below them.
academy lasts 6-9 months full time in most states. after that FTO length depends on the department
>>29512628
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XFYTtgZAlE
>>29512754
actually he killed someone earlier that week with the very same knife he had in the video. the news article is in the /pol/ thread
Isn't the whole thing with getting in legal trouble for shooting to wound that they can claim you didn't fear for your life so lethal force wasn't called for?
>>29512485
If you didn't think lethal force was necessary, why did you shoot him?
Fucking irresponsible European cowboy cops pulling out their guns and shooting people when the situation calls for a taser or baton. This isn't the Wild West anymore, it's 2016.
>>29512778
yes, thats part of it
>>29512658
This isn't bait, this is a direct attack on my psyche
I'm triggered, are you happy shitlord?
>>29512753
Tourniquet and an ambulance ride into the nearest hospital.
>>29512761
Finnish police training lasts for 3 years and in multiple cases (which don't happen often here) they've neutralized a situation by firing a shot into the leg of the suspect.
>>29512780
>If you didn't think lethal force was necessary, why did you shoot him?
Because shooting someone with a handgun isn't an instant kill.
>when the situation calls for a taser or baton.
Call me back when tasers are foolproof.
>>29512665
>cherrypicking
>>29512795
last time i checked we are not finnish. if you think they never have training after academy and fto you are not very smart.
there is no getting around when using deadly force its to kill not wound
>>29512762
Shit, that was one twitchy cop.
I almost always take my seatbelt off when I get to the parking lot of where I'm going. Might rethink that.
>>29512780
>IT'S $CURRENTYEAR, WHY DO YOU DO THINGS I DISAGREE WITH????
>>29512754
You are the one who used the word "help"
see: >>29512626
If you are suggesting that we should allow the mentally ill to walk down highways without interference then I disagree with you
>>29512697
I think it's kind of sad we've developed such a distorted view of police in this country you perceive that as bait. It's not.
>>29512702
When I realize that the 'threat' is an old guy with a knife who is not able to move fast enough to get anywhere near me, and is actually trying to commit suicide, not attack me, yeah, I think I would calm down a bit. I'm not anti-cop and I'm not even coming down hard on this one, just pointing out how it could have been done better.
But I forgot, this is groupthinking land. Hurr durr, blue wall, kill the mudslimes, cops are divine beings who never do anything wrong, that better?
>>29512658
>Thing he did was legitimately illegal
>legitimately illegal
So laws we don't agree with aren't legitimate now?
Good to know, just let me go start cranking out SBRs.
>>29512843
this officer handled the situation bretty good. the majority of officers would have shot him multiple times as soon as he took the knife out.
how do you know they wont try and kill you then themselves? if they are going to die what do they care about your safety
>>29512822
>last time i checked we are not finnish. if you think they never have training after academy and fto you are not very smart.
And you think Finnish cops don't have training after that? The academy in itself is 3 years, doesn't include FTO.
>>29512565
The fire rises brother.
Jk, shut up porch monkey
>>29512795
If you want to argue that tasers are not foolproof, but shooting somebody in the limb is, then you must be baiting me. Nobody fucking says that shit
>>29512866
It's funny because you just inadvertently justified Waco and Ruby Ridge.
>>29512822
I am with you on everything else, but 6-9 months training is pretty fucking retarded, like make them work with the other policemen and shit but training has to be way harder and longer - why wouldn't you want the guns part of the law to have proper training?? damn at least filter a few nuts out, 6 months is NOTHING.
>>29512882
the thing i hate about when people compare US to yuroland is the size difference among other things. we do things different here if you dont like it move to Finland.
deadly force=deadly force its day 1 stuff
>>29512838
I'm suggesting that if police want to stop everyone they meet for whatever reason, they should have psychology backgrounds to know how to spot the mentally ill and take special precautions. You know , instead of actively discriminating against those with higher education like most police forces do.
Just because someone is crazy doesn't give you or any other pig the right to take their life. They can often be talked down if they're treated like humans.
>>29512216
>Car runs out of gas before gas station exit
>Decide to walk the rest of the way to retrieve gas because fuck tow trucks
>Get shot
>>29512915
i dont know about many other states but here they live there and its full time training class/dt/firearms/other shit.
>why wouldn't you want the guns part of the law to have proper training??
what
>>29512866
>Good to know, just let me go start cranking out SBRs.
Isn't the NFA technically an illegitimate law?
>>29512889
A bullet is quite a lot more likely to pass through clothing than a taser dart. Especially if one is wearing thick winter clothing.
>>29512843
>sanitizing the victim's intentions
Once multiple officers showed up, the suspect could have jumped one in order to provoke the others
In the moment you have no idea what the suspect's intentions are, whether or not he is on drugs or is mentally unstable.
I'm not even surprised anymore, people can't seem to wrap their minds around another viewpoint but their own.
>what will happen when I provoke this authority figure?
>why is he now exercising authority over me?
>>29512674
>bootlickers will STILL defend this
>>29512925
>You know , instead of actively discriminating against those with higher education like most police forces do.
i knew you would pop in. why do my local departments an state police require a degree? and to be promoted you need a masters?
provide a source thats not old af
>>29512843
Listen, if the officer had magdumped the guy on the spot after he pulled that knife right next to him, he still would have been absolutely in the right. Someone link that video of the brazilian (?) guy stabbing the 4 police officers because they don't react fast enough. Big knifes like that are no joke.
>>29512926
>Officer pulls over in front of me.
>'Yeah, my car is out of gas'
>officer drives me to a gas station and back
wow look at what not pulling a knife does.
>>29512926
As a guy who has had this happen let me tell you how this goes
>Car runs out of gas before gas station exit
>Decide to walk the rest of the way to retrieve gas because fuck tow trucks
>Cop pulls over
>Cop: "What are you doing walking on the side of the highway?"
>Me: "My car ran out of gas and I'm going to get some."
>Cop: "That sucks, let me give you a ride."
Fucking pigs, should have pulled my knife on him.
>>29512976
DELETE THIS
lmoa blm faggets are on suicide watch
>>29512972
>>29512976
Sure. Only he didn't have a car, and it wasn't out of gas.
>>29512926
>pull a fucking knife on a cop
>get shot
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOW
>>29512936
But if the bullet doesn't stop them then the effect is the same. And then the suspect gets shot.
The taser is meant to give the suspect a final chance to survive an encounter that has become hostile.
Shooting somebody in a limb could be completely ineffective, or it could strike an artery and kill them (albeit slowly and cruelly compared to shooting them center of mass). It isn't a valid measure and even hitting the limb of a moving suspect is difficult at best.
>>29512012
he's terrible at suicide by pig, just run at the cop and its gg
>>29513003
when deadly force is presented the police will respond with deadly force. why is this hard to understand?
>>29512998
So he had no justification to be on the highway.
>>29513008
>just run at the cop
Or "walk with purpose" toward them while they're in their car.
>>29512998
Yes, and he could have kept the interaction civil if he'd given up the blade and gotten a ride.
>>29512972
Same thing happened to me years ago. I could tell the cop was more interested in getting me off the highway than helping, but I really didn't care as long has I got a ride.
those are the whitest fucking teeth I've ever seen on a dog.
>>29512933
you have lots of parts in the justice system, courts and judges and attorneys and social workers and whatnot. but they don't "enforce" the law, that's what the police does, with guns if necessary.
My point is, why do you think america has such big problems with police overreach and violence? Because every fuckhead can become police officer in fucking 6 months. Other countries have way longer training times and bigger requirements to join the police, while being way saver with less armed criminals etc. Why wouldn't the police training in the US not be way longer/tougher?
>>29513016
Breh that's the point I'm arguing.
I'm tryna convince the europoster that shooting people in the limb isn't the same as using a taser, and it certainly isn't better.
>>29513042
>>29512970
>Someone link that video of the brazilian (?) guy stabbing the 4 police officers because they don't react fast enough. Big knifes like that are no joke.
I know which one you're talking about, the unwillingness of those officers to shoot the guy resulted in their deaths and injuries. It was quite avoidable.
>>29513042
That cop is lucky there were no kids playing behind that cinder block wall.
>>29513044
it takes 6-8 months of interviewing and different evals before you even get offered a job and attend the academy. we dont have a police overreach or violence problem. just because you see a few cases of police shooting someone of whatever you say overreach is every month means shit when you look at the amount of police officers in the country,
literally the same shit gun grabbers use to talk about how bad guns are. we have a severe nigger problem in this country and it gets worse every week cause the media demonizes the police.
>>29513042
Does someone want to explain what the fuck is happening here?
>>29512236
>Only in America will they shoot you for drawing a knife and shouting "I'll kill you", and then succesfully de-escalate the situation with non-lethal force after delivering a wounding shot
>>29513110
iirc he beat up his gf and was shooting in the air walking around that neighborhood
>>29513092
He'd have been lucky if there were. Collateral damage means paid time off.
>>29513110
The guy hit by the car was robbing people and was walking around with a rifle. When the first cop approached he held it under his chin threatening suicide, and cruiser #2 decided he wasn't having any of that shit.
>>29513044
Other countries police forces and sometimes militaries are minuscule compared to those in the US.
There are almost 20,000 more employees in the NYPD than in the entire Belgian armed forces. 13,000 more than the active component of Finland's entire armed forces. 27,000 more than Berlin's police force.
It's an apples to oranges comparison at best.
>>29512479
what's it like being autistic?
>>29512656
If you have to draw you're firearm it is to neutralise a threat at all costs. At this point the situation has devolved to a point where anything but the use of deadly force will result in a loss of life to you or those around you. You are not drawing with the intent to maim or wound, because that would mean that you could have potentially used another method to restrain the target.
>>29512006
1:50 right when he pulls out the knife is right when I would have mag dumped him, no way in hell was he making peaceful intentions. Honestly the cop seemed to handle the situation well, no one got killed, the cop seemed to have a good sense of situational awareness and kept a decently cool head.
10/10 shit, probably won't appear on CNN.
>>29513194
>good sense of situational awareness
>walks backward out onto the highway instead of staying on the median
Pick one and only one.
>>29513110
Basically this >>29513128 but it should also be noted that the suspect fired off a round.
>>29513227
IIRC, he fired like 200 feet before where he was hit.
>>29513082
but come one it happened in like 10 seconds, 4 cops! When he goes to tap him down at his cruiser and the guy pulls on him there is like 0 distance between him, fuck man just magdump that guy you wanna live!
>>29512925
Fun fact, once upon a time there was a civil service exam, and it was used to determine eligibility.
Funny thing was, African Americans sucked at them. Hard. So when congress pushed for pluralism and more African American cops, they lowered the standards, made a whole separate (read- easier) test, and ultimately dumbed down all the testing requirements nation wide. Hence it's fucking easy to become a cop (depending on your police department, I imagine the NYPD is a bit harder to get into than flatsville USA PD). At some point the bar gets lowered so everyone can go for it.
Also the cop DID treat this guy like a human being. The guy whipped out a knife and got aggressive, then continued to be aggressive and back the lone officer into the highway and got near citizens in their cars.
>>29512006
>Discuss this event and the circumstances behind the utilization of the the officer's handgun.
Officer saw the guy getting nervous when he said he was going to pat him down. As soon as the guy shoved his hands into his pockets the officer presented his handgun. Good reaction. As soon he sees that he has a knife and the guy fails to stop advancing, he shoots. Good on him. Also, once he shoots, the guy looses momentum and slows down. It seems to be enough to stop the guy from effectively catching the officer which maybe the officer feels is enough to stop shooting. Great response I think.
>Discuss if non-lethal options would have been appropriate.
No. Looks like he had a thick enough jacket to stop tazer probes. Also the wind conditions didn't sound conducive to pepper spray use.
>>29513093
oh please, we all know that american police does waaaay worse in almost all of these categories, per capita, then say germany. I also know that being a policeman in america is probably more dangerous, but I still see no reason whatsoever for training times to be so so short. why would you not want super strict selection processes and long, like 2-3 year long training? Is there a lack of applicants? surely not, so make sure only most competent people can work in an important, dangerous job?
>>29513274
Having actually taken the NY ones they're all easy as fuck and capable of being rattled off in below the minimum time if you have any skill at standardized tests.
>>29513326
But he could have beaten the shit out him with a baton!
That's totally better than shooting him once!
>>29513353
>>29513134
still doesn't justify the huge difference in per capita misconduct? would it be impossible to enforce a higher standart and longer training times, as in absolutely unfeasible? because if not there is just no justification not to.
>>29513330
stop comparing yurop to the us. it doesnt work for a number of reasons. departments dont have money to pay someone to train for 3 years. so they go to a 8 month long academy then train more on the job. the interview process is 6-8 months then another 6-8 months of academy.
Clinton wanted to put a 100,000 cops on the street in the '90s. Of course being the government, no one that that maybe there were not a 100,000 people who wanted to be a cop and had the aptitude for it.
I think we'd be better off with half the cops we have today. Double the pay of the other half and give them more training.
>>29513369
yes it would be impossible. training costs money, paying people a salary to train for a few years makes no sense
>>29512640
>>29512628
That was a straight up execution. DA doesn't file charges?
Fuck that county.
>>29512006
1:53 without a doubt. When the knife is initially drawn if I have distance and gun drawn I wouldn't shoot but he drew the knife and began closing the distance. After that when the guy first goes down after being shot I would pull a non lethal option ideally (this is in my ideal hypothetical situation in reality I would probably do the same as the officer and just leave my gun drawn) because he seems to be significantly less of a threat but I still need force compliance and potentially lethal if he begins to close distance significantly so i dont think i would want to reholster. The officer did pretty solid in my opinion.
>>29513405
i know, i know, eu =/ us, but it obviously works in eu, so what you are saying is just "it costs to much money to properly train policemen?"
>>29513425
your definition of "properly trained" is based of yuroshit. they train differently over there and are cucked when it comes to what they can do. us training is fine. training doesnt magically stop after academy either
>>29513206
Good, not great. Also traffic had already stopped once he backed towards the road.
>>29513335
Which is important to the reason they lowered the standards, because African Americans suck at those standardized tests (on average). The test discrepency still exists, though diminished. So of course quotas came around...
Sometimes the train ride never ends
>>29513448
per capita police misconduct, like all of it, is way higher in the us then say germany. If it's not training, what else could it be? is the water more violent over there?
>>29513481
>misconduct
define misconduct here and there then remove the fake reports niggers make
>>29513481
>per capita police misconduct, like all of it, is way higher in the us then say germany
Source, additionally some things that are legal for the police to do in Germany such as beating gypsies within an inch of their life would be misconduct in the US.
>>29512762
This video scares the fuck out of me. Woke up at about 4 am craving a soda for some reason, so i drove to the convenience store. There were two officers standing in the parking lot talking(a man and a woman), and when i got out of my vehicle, the man pointed out that my tag was out of date. I had renewed it but had forgotten to put the new sticker on, it was still in my glove box.
Still somewhat tired, and low on sugar so i was a bit shaky, i went into my truck probably faster than i should have to retrieve the registration and put the sticker on. I probably looked similar to that man, if not a bit worse.
Looking back on the situation, the cop was extremely tense and twitchy. I'm not a trashy looking individual, but he still seemed nervous as fuck. Bastard wouldn't even shake my hand when i thanked him for pointing it out to me. I just keep thinking back to that day, how i could have easily been shot for no reason.
>>29512006
It may not have been shown in the video but from what I saw
>officer didn't ask about weapons on person
>Do it everytime/10
At about 1:53 as soon as he jerks away, the hands go in the pockets and he starts approaching. Pretty much exactly what the officer did but I don't think he shot fast enough.
After the initial shot there was ample time to taze or mace but he should have been dead before that point.
>>29513581
>Bastard wouldn't even shake my hand when i thanked him for pointing it out to me.
90% of the time the police will not shake someones hand. this is for many reasons.
>>29513595
>officer didn't ask about weapons on person
this normally happens as soon as they start the pat down, but thats when the dude turned away
>>29512012
how long until someone makes an auto tune parody of him screaming "kill me!"
>>29513501
I wouldn't know of any situation in which the german police gets more leway for brutality than the us, i am genuinely don't know of any incidents with gypsies. Sure we have demonstrations and the odd riot after big rivals play each other in football, but for the most part police rarely have to use any force.
>even when you its new years and you'd want them to...
>>29512658
>Walking should not be a crime
It's not. Walking on the interstate is a crime.
>>29513639
nice source yuroshit
>>29513601
When did this policy change, because i don't have interactions with police very often and it wasn't that way before. I fucking hate how much they have been separated from the community.
>>29512154
Do something illegal
>walking down freeway
Get questioned by police
>identification, purpose, and safety questions
Pat down before detaining/arrest
>can't let him keep walking, illegal and dangerous. He's going in the squad car, can't let him in with illegal shit
Guy freaks and pulls knife and approaches
>Fucker gets shot, should have been killed in 1 shot
Keeps being a fucker
>backup probably should have tazed him
This is about the rundown, first responder did nothing wrong besides having a bad first shot
>>29512006
I would have insta magdumped when I saw the knife. Dude had pretty good control.
Also backing up into the interstate seems peligroso as fuck.
>>29512534
you will note you are not only in the minority, but need to resort to calling autism.
You typed in all caps, acted in a manner unusual and inconsistent to normal behavior and have no interest or ability in conversing about things outside your own desires. When a deviation happens, you either ignore or respond with hostility.
Anon, look in the mirror, I think you are projecting.
>>29513676
its not a policy per say. its that the majority of people they interact with are dirty, they are arresting, giving a citation to, in a situation where a handshake is not needed.
now i did say 90% so there are situations where a handshake is cool but if i was them i wouldnt shake your hand
>>29513652
I am on it, its just tough to get statistics on misconduct and brutality since police departments in the us are not required to report the number of their killings. so it's either the fbis numbers which are volunteered but obviously don't include anything near the actual number or the guardians counter, which is well documented but you'll call me and the guardian a nigger because "they are youroru niggers american police is perfect usa usa usa!"
>>29512567
>"i thought you were a bad guy!"
lmfao for some reason
>>29512012
Well god damn. I think he handled just as well as anyone could have. The man was already hit one and stumbling. He even fell a few times. Could you not have used an taser anytime between the first and second shots?
>>29513706
>they are youroru niggers american police is perfect usa usa usa!"
no where did i say the police here are perfect. the police are not perfect anywhere in the world. if you think justifiable shootings is misconduct then we are done here.
>>29513727
i am looking for the sources, its just really hard since not even fbi.gov list unjustifiably shootings
>>29512154
Fuck you
>suspected vagrant walking on the highway
>officer asks him what's up
>calmly asks his name
>when guy is unable to tell him his first and last name coherently he asks for ID
>guy can't produce any proof he is a legal us resident
>officer asks to Pat him down real quick for officer safety
>all suspicions confirmed literal knife wielding vagrant with mental problems screaming "kill me now" while advancing on officer with a knife
Ffs
>>29513765
>not even fbi.gov list unjustifiably shootings
yes they do
>>29512012
>Officer's stance towards man shifted from "Oh hey what's your name? Highway is not a good place to walk man." to "I'm gonna search your bag and pat you down for weapons."
Yeah, no fucking shit that would set off the dude. Given a fair chance he's not all mentally there and probably extremely distrustful of authority figures, I really would not have tried anything to set him off.
Flipside, the officer was at risk of the guy going 0-60 and just stabbing without provocation, but the man was definitely provoked in his mind by the officer's instructions.
>>29512236
youre a faggot
>>29513791
fuck point me to it, you are better than me then at this
>>29513810
>but the man was definitely provoked
kek the officer literally did nothing wrong. he followed protocol
>>29513822
you are the one saying shit so find your own sources
>>29513849
dude if you have the statistic, just post it it will prove your point if you are right, or are you making it up?
>>29513849
>kek the officer literally did nothing wrong. he followed protocol
Yes the officer absolutely followed protocol, it was not his fault for trying to do so, HOWEVER, the man clearly did not take that instruction as a normal person of right mind would.
Officer tells you he needs to pat you down for that reason, you understand where he's coming from. In the mind of that man, the officer might as well have said "I'm going to handcuff you and take you to jail for being alive."
>>29512567
you sound like an edgy autistic retard that got rejected during the background investigation
>>29513185
How about those cops that shoot people who are already detained, or are running away, or are crawling out of an overturned car?
>>29513868
is 2013 there were 461 justifiable homicides ny LEOs of that 461, 458 were by firearms
>>29513873
he killed someone earlier that week with the same knife
>>29512790
Yes, I am happy, thank you.
>>29512866
Straw man all you want, but courts have been striking down laws in part or in full for such issues for many centuries. I didn't just invent the concept myself.
The powers of the state, under the American and English common law traditions at least, are limited. This inherently means it is possible for the legislature to over-reach and pass laws it has no authority to enforce. It happens all the time. And the only way it gets overturned is when someone with money decides to put some good lawyers to work on challenging it.
Unfortunately, this dynamic is used to effectively criminalize being poor in many cases. And that's exactly what you are seeing here. This elderly gentleman's rights are being violated because he is poor. He has a right to travel on the public highway - but he doesn't have a car. So fuck him. He has no right to travel. If you'd ever been poor for very long you'd understand this anon.
>>29512877
Like I said, it certainly could have gone worse.
But as to the second? After he took that first bullet that guy was barely staying on his feet. He couldnt move anywhere fast. He was yelling 'no, kill me' and trying to charge but he was in so much pain his charges were a step or two and then he just couldn't sustain it.
At that point he's just a citizen in need of help.
>>29512970
Nah, he wouldnt be, and quite frankly the attitude you display is exactly what's ruining the USA. We seem to have lost the entire concept of proportional force, either overseas or at home.
>>29513639
Having lived in both Germany and the US, German cops have more leeway regarding brutality than American cops. The last soccer game I went to I watched people get maced, bound hand and foot, thrown through the air into a pile on concrete, and left face down.
The last three of these are strict no go's in America. European cops in general seem to be given far more leeway when it comes to actually hurting someone when effecting an arrest.
Also I have a feeling legal differences mean that you don't have tons of people filing complaints to get the insurance payout like most cities do.
>>29513705
There's also the case that use of force is defined as anytime you lay hands on someone, and depending on how hardline your department is about such things the officer could wind up having to fill out a report each time they shake hands or give a high five.
>>29513896
>shoot people who are already detained
detained does not equal handcuffed and secured
>running away
fleeing felon rule
>overturned car
that officer was an idiot
>>29512012
Should've lit that crazy nigger the fuck up. Fuck that shit.
>>29512628
despite the fucked up nature of this, that was pretty fuckin operator
>>29513957
i wonder if he cowboy shoots
>>29512012
00:01
>>29512012
I'm proud of these guys, they didn't want to kill him and they gave him more than enough chances.
Usually it's damn Californian Cops that go full retard and magdump with pistols shotguns and AR's and all is left is bloody swiss cheese.
>>29512413
And you would be a dead cop. Dude presented lethal force with that knife. This is not a movie.
>>29512453
Without audio all this chatter is meaningless, we dont know if dudes answers were coherent or if he seemed under the influence or anything. Video without audio is too easy to take out of context.
>>29513983
>>29512012
@3:50 the officer is waaaay to close to the nutjob.
>>29514035
Did you watch the video? It has audio.
>>29513906
>he killed someone earlier that week with the same knife
Sauce on that claim?
>>29514072
i read the article a /pol/ thread let me find it
>>29514072
corrections it was in march not that week
http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/glendale/josh-hilling-javier-pablo-aleman-video-no-charges-for-officer-who-shot-knife-wielding-man-on-i-75-
>>29513927
There have been several cases in the news of cops shooting people that they already have cuffed in the back of their car.
>>29514126
i have not heard of any
>>29512665
Other way around, buddy.
>>29512628
>When you just wanna play whack a mole with your sidearm.
>>29514137
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/video-appears-show-utah-shooting-handcuffed-man-article-1.2490894
http://qpolitical.com/breaking-black-man-shot-by-cop-while-handcuffed-in-police-car/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/da-charges-handcuffed-man-police-car-shooting_us_56b8f75de4b08069c7a8548b
http://newsone.com/2953674/victor-white-iii-killed-in-handcuffs/
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/autopsy-report-victor-white-iiis-alleged-suicide-louisiana-police-cover-up/
>>29512628
That was pretty bad- but the bean-bags were just funny.
>>29514184
Literally no, buddy.
>>29514498
If I remember correctly those weren't beanbags, they were those $100+ per round TASER 12 gauge shells.
>>29513050
He did not say it is the same as using a taser. Its for situations where taser would not reliably work. Over here firearms are not used to kill the suspect, thats retarded.
Somehow cops manage to usually not kill suspects even when they do use firearms over here. And in my european hellhole cops have FAKs with tourniquets in them in patrol cars, if you shoot someone you also call an ambulance and do your best to make sure the guy survives.
>>29514670
America is inherently retarded but it's the price we pay for wide availability and a gun culture. Just don't fuck with american police, they will kill you.
A this felt like some kind of bong shit "please put the knife down"
>>29512916
So you're saying US cops have poor training and they shoot to kill. Somehow this is a better option than having cops that try to keep suspects alive even if they have to use a firearm.
>shoots man
>LET US HELP YOU
kek
>>29514686
Well to be honest I would gladly pay that price. But it would be nice to get well trained and polite cops and a gun culture.
>>29513880
>>29512582
sounds like he just doesn't like murder
>>29512567
So instead of trying to help improve the situation you quit and ran away? Good job..
>>29512012
I would have mag dumped while running away grabbing civilians and throwing them between myself and knife man along the way.
How did you know I was Army?
>>29514670
[Citation needed]
How do they shoot them without killing them?
By shooting then once and then checking if they are still attacking? By only shooting them in the feet?
American cops have IFAKs with cat tourniquets and call the ambulence around here in Seattle too.
What a shame, I was expecting this to happen when backup finally came:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFcEMMZju7U
why don't they have some sort of net gun fired from their cruiser to subdue an individual like this
>>29512006
>>29512012
>all that wasted time
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dc7_1452617812
>>29514539
But he clearly says bean-bag 3 times. And those projectiles didn't look like they stuck at all.
>>29514990
>>29514990
>Putting finger in mouth
It's like you don't value your chewy parts.
>>29514698
no shoot to kill is 100% the proper training. shooting to wound is retarded and brings unnecessary problems
>>29512012
That officer is lucky. He was likely reaching for the knife when he first put his hands in his jacket but he hesitated.
>>29512372
Hes got a point though. Just imagine...
> smelly man draws knife
> drop asp
> swing baton like a child facing off with another child in a sword fight
> ya know, when both of you just keep swinging, doing the same move, just meeting when you guys both get to the middle
> ?????
> profit
