When can we solve the power problem and make this the new step in warfare, /k/? Chemical propellant ammo is sooo last decade
gauss is a crummy way to propel an object due to magnetic limitations railguns are much better and have no such limitations. And you really don't need battiers but capacitors
>>29483256
>new step in warfare
>not giant robots
If it ain't broke, don't make it needlessly complicated and more prone to failure.
>>29483294
Why make costly and unstable walkers that take resources to maintain and have a shit combat life time? Why not just put mass-produced and cheap gauss guns in the hand of infantries?
>>29483290
Yea, I was talking about the coils around the gun, not the actual problem with the battery itself. If only you could find a way to minimize the whole hueg barrel and make it portable.
>>29483324
>not wanting to send a tungsten block of metal at a gorillion miles an hour to vaporize terrorist heads
>>29483256
Step 1: use next gen battery tech
Step 2: propel lighter projectiles
Step 3: projectiles must translate energy to target other than kinetically.
>>29483324
BUT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THERE'S AN ALIEN INVASION? HOW CAN YOU DEFEND YOUR BUTT FROM PROBING IF YOU ONLY HAVE SHITTY POWDER GUNS?
>>29483352
A..are you suggesting we propel plasma? That'll most likely be impossible but cool as fuck tho
>>29483387
No, but likely as difficult as cool sounding, I agree.
I am suggesting propelling a solid, in this case ferrous, high velocity / low mass projectile that deploys energy to the target other ways. Chemical, thermal, kinetic-through-explosion, etc.
The first thing that fits the bill would be a slender shaft of thermite, something between the size of a sewing needle and a nail. Would have to be propelled at a high velocity and ignite as it left the weapon. Something so slender at high velocity would likely penetrate very well. Imagine what it would do to flesh, burning at thousands of degrees inside a body, if even for a few seconds. Also the expansion damage from super heating flesh and liquids.
It's something that anyone could make from home too. Pretty much any 2nd world country on up.
>>29483352
Way to physics there.
>>29483546
I appreciate such a detailed and insightful critique. It really gives me material to address in a rebuttal.
>>29483256
When batteries hold more energy for the same mass as propellant.
Basically never.
>>29483256
Problem with a coilgun OP is that gauss saturation is a thing. While they work fine for solenoids, they limit the ability to drive a projectile.
Railguns are where its at, railguns
>>29483546
Still waiting for you to post something cohesive, chief.
>>29483519
Holy shit's tits, that will definitely get banned cause of war crime, can't even imagine how that'll look when contacting human flesh.
And in my original plasma post, I meant that we could potentially eject gas at a high enough velocity that it get heated by the air friction and then turn into plasma, tho I think there might be an issue with effective range and stuffs
I also think of another cool ammo replacement, how about a metal with low melting point? Imagine shooting quicksilver or molten iron at something, melt through the armor and basically disable the opponent for good
>>29483631
Too bulky though, unless you can find a way to reduce the mass of what basically is a long box with a hole at the top
Now gauss gun on the other hand have more potentials in general, if we can find a way to tighten up those coils so we can have more of them and lighter than your average rifle
>>29483696
Thermite is easy to make, and easy to cast into a solid piece. Make some and get a cheap, marked down / day old roast at the store. Insert and light :). I haven't bothered to test it out yet. It would also work against some machinery and infrastructure too. 3 - 4 shots in a small area would seriously slag a bit of plate.
>>29483696
Also, it could be made from home from metal and wire scrap. Couldn't really stop your average person from making one and arming themselves, even globally.
>>29483256
How come they don't use this instead to sling EXPLOSIVE rounds instead of trying to make it kinetically powerful?
Then you could focus on making the coilgun just be able to reach like 500 to 1000 yards and let the HE deliver the lethal energy.
>>29483729
A railgun is basically two rails, a bracket to keep them from flying apart, a bunch of caps, wires, and a switch. And the projectile.
Coilgun projectiles can suffer from gaussian saturation, where you pump more energy into the coils, and get less and less acceleration. There are ways to combat this though.
>>29483256
when the nuke backpacks from ghostbusters become a thing
>>29483363
1/10 shit effort m8
remove ayy the 8-gauge way
>>29483783
Do expand on ways to combat gauss saturation, physics was never really my strong suit
>>29483737
>>29483750
Definitely a real security threat, maybe they will have stricter gun control than current guns, which will kinda suck
>>29483782
I mean, it could make a lovely substitute to an accelerated metal ball. But the impact from a gauss shot alone can create enough shock wave, adding in explosives would most likely be redundant since its overkill at that point
>>29483256
>railguns
>chemical propellants
Porque no los dos, OP?
>>29483866
The department want its gun back
>>29483862
Easy to take apart and make it just a couple components instead of a weapon. It would be very difficult to restrict. Also doesn't have to be made in the shape of a gun. Also, it would be as dumb as trying to make knives illegal, or pennies ... very difficult. Let them try.
I'm almost motivated enough to build a cheap prototype and test the thermite burn inside flesh. I can imagine what a sliver of burning thermite would do to a power transformer also. One shot to take out all the power in a block or so.
>>29483812
>Metal pellets
>Aliens have alien alloy™
>Shot reflect back at user
0/10
>>29483519
couldn't we take a sewing needle and coat it in white phosphorous?
would ignite as soon as it hit hot air and then be a burning needle of death going a gorillion miles an hour
>>29484091
what about a projectile the size and shape of a pencil
the wood would be replaced with copper
the lead could be phosphorous
the tip would be a very thin layer of copper so when it hits something it breaks open exposing the phosphorous and getting the party started
>>29484091
It will burn off too fast, and won't translate enough energy to the target. White phosphorus isn't as easy to get as rust. Also, ammo that ignites with contact to air ... could be logistically problematic.
You could prototype the rail gun with a sewing needle, to get baseline velocities and penetration for that amount of ferrous material, though.
>>29484091
well yea, nothing's wrong with that but the gauss can prolly afford a bigger projectile since the larger the mass, the heavier the impact
>>29484147
Not sure that would be any more effective than thermite, while adding mass and increased difficulty to manufacture. With mass increase, power requirements increase exponentially.
Could be deployed as a sniper rifle.
>Bullet travels at 7 times the speed of sound.
>Sniper easily hits the target by more than 10 km.
Sounds like a great idea!
>>29484173
a pencil diameter projectile mabe 1/3 to 1/2 the length of a #2 pencil wouldn't weigh much
making a hollow copper tube and shoving some fun in it shouldn't be too hard
i just figured putting the phos inside like that would make it safer/easier to handle and also make sure the fun doesn't start till it actually hits something
a projectile coated in phos would leave trace amount of the stuff in the barrel and stuff which could be an issue
>>29484154
could
>>29484147
solve the problem?
to the second anon I'm responding to, it would have to be airtight cause phosphorous is an air ignition substance.
>>29483519
Thermite being ignited at the end or as it leaves the muzzle would result in differing ballistic properties as the burning increased - not ideal as it would have inconsistent performance beyond it's tested range.
Instead why not a sodium-core jacketed bullet? As jacket separates it exposes sodium which ignites on contact with , say, blood.
>>29484231
Yea, now we take that OP sniper rifle and made it fully automatic. With multiple firing modes. Five rounds per trigger
AND THEN we FURTHER develop that gauss AR into a specialized sniper version. Except this one can travel across the surface of the planet with little to no ease
Gauss is the future
>>29484260
yeah that's why i suggested the phosphorous core with a copper jacket, to keep the air out till it hit something
>>29484306
Yeah, I was concerned about that also. I was hoping the high velocity would compensate for any deviation, not giving it enough time to propagate. I still think it's worth prototyping.
I considered other materials. There's a real feasibility problem with anything that ignites or explodes when contacting oxygen or water. It's just gonna cause constant problems and hazard issues.
>>29484328
see >>29484390
Also, the energy density of phosphorus isn't equal to thermite, which is literally mostly just rust.
So, thermite has more energy, easier to manufacture, and much less hazardous to utilize.
>>29484407
Plus, thermite is highly ferrous, meaning it will propel well by magnetic field.
The smaller and lighter you can get the projectile, the more feasible a rail weapon is. I don't know how to explain that any differently. Even something double the weight, like a copper tube filled with something, the size of a pencil, would weigh a LOT more. The battery drain grows exponentially. All for less energy delivery per mass.
>>29484390
It would perform similar to the modern trend in mid-range combat firearms. High velocity, flat trajectory, then rapid drop off.
Hell, beyond a certain range, the projectile ceases to exist, being vaporized. Puts a hard cap on stray shot range.
What about a lye cored projectile? It separates upon entry and then you have a wound with chemical burns all the way through.
I've always thought that the Javelin from Mass Effect 3 was always an interesting take on matter acceleration
"Called the Javelin byAlliancemarines, thisget weapon holds a reservoir of ferrofluid, magnetically drawn into the firing chamber and expelled at lethal speeds. Like a high-pressure water-jet, the ferrofluid cuts through nearly anything it hits with so much heat that it resembles a beam of light, causing terrible wounds"
So basically a ultra fast ferric lance of liquid metal alloys that drill/melt through anything they impact with
What about using a rail/coilgun to propel a bullet filled with gas that turns into plasma?
>>29484648
O-O-O-OVERKILL
Don't focus on the gun focus on the battery.
make batteries hold more energy, more innovations in battery technology must come first, that or somehow making nuclear reactors smaller.
Coil/gauss guns won't work, that's why the navy decided not to use them and go with railguns.
>>29483343
>why make costly and slow tanks that take resources to maintain and can be taken out with AT guns anyways? why not just put mass produced and cheap and new and shiny bolt action rifles in the hand of infantries?
>t. Germany, WWI
Gotta think long term, bro. Don't want to end up on the wrong side of history, do you?
>>29484759
Look up sugar batteries. Order of magnitude more capacity than lithium ion.
Modern powders have a far greater energy density than any battery.
We should see powered armor well before all-electric infantry weapons, because the power requirements are easier to deal with.
Now, for vehicles (and especially ships), those can generate enough electricity on demand that, in combination with high-end capacitors, can power meaningful electric weapons.
But infantry, and most likely AFVs/IFVs as well, are best off with percussion or electrically-fired chemical propellants for the foreseeable future. Combat at longer ranges will continue to focus on the delivery of guided HE/frag weapons, from grenades to mini-rockets to ATGMs to calls for fire or air support.
>>29484796
Well ok, that was a solid past example but there are prime differences between tanks vs walker mech/bollt rifles vs gauss AR
Unless we somehow develop kinetic shield in the future then playing mech warriors ain't worth it
>>29483324
>progress is stupid
Go fuck yourself retard. If it were up to people like you we would still be banging rocks together huddled over a fire. Stupid fucking cunt.
![I_9f12ee_82937[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/zbTJ81n.jpg "I_9f12ee_82937[1].jpg")
Just throwing something out there that I learned while researching the realistic difference in the 9mm vs .45 (or small and fast vs big and slow) debate.
Velocity, which is what rail guns bring to the table, has extremely diminishing returns (so does mass, but that's not what I am here to talk about).
The faster something is going, after a point (which modern guns are pretty close to), increasing the speed of a projectile does not add much to the killing potential. There is an inability to dump most of that energy into the target and you end up with just MASSIVE overpenetration.
I am not saying that this means railguns are bad, or that hypervelocity weapons as a whole are a dead end. Not. At. All. I am saying that "more speed more dead" is a curved line, and after a point, I'd say 4,000 FPS to be CONSERVATIVE (so maybe even less), you ain't killing stuff much deader.
That speed will well with defeating armor and keeping a flat trajectory for longer though. But damn, seems like alot of investment and shit for improvements we can realize with cheaper means, like better bullets and computer assisted targeting.
I guess what I'm really saying is,
>COMPUTER HUDS WHAT ADJUST YOUR WINDAGE AND ELEVATION FOR YOU
Expect them.
>>29487247
>That speed will well with
*DO well with
Sorry folks, I am getting drunk and misusing pharmaceuticals.
>>29487247
if two projectiles had the same coefficient of drag
and one went twice as fast while the other weighed twice as much
what one retains its energy for a greater distance ?
>>29487247
So why not just accelerate a big armor piercing explosive warhead into the target?
Like 40k's bolters, but using magnetic whatevers to get the warhead there in a speedy and accurate fashion (like your example of 4000fps).
>>29487323
Not running numbers, but I think it is speedy gonzalez. Again though, you don't dump all the energy you have once you're over a certain speed, you just overpenetrate.
Also gravity is dragging them all downward at a constant rate.
>>29483256
S O O N
>>29487362
>So why not just accelerate a big armor piercing explosive warhead into the target
$$$
And that ain't changing.
Also size (and therefore capacity), but that could maybe change.
What about ETC guns
what ever happened to those
>>29487366
>Also gravity
oh shit...
the heavier projectile would have to travel in a taller arc to reach the target but may gain some speed back on the way down
now I remember why I don't dwell on this subject
>>29487369
it has its own plasma at that speed iirc
What about recoil? won't you pretty quickly have to get into strength enhancing suits to counter it?
I suppose if you can make a handheld mag weapon you could make a combat robot or power armour.
>>29487399
We used to shoot 45-70 at the same distances we do extreme long range shooting today.
Dwell on that for a moment. It was a hell of an arc, but we did it.
>>29487417
ladder sights on them are really crazy
the delay in the extra flight time from the arc is enough and the lower speed making cross wind more potent
so the barrel is pointed off to one corner and with a bit of guess work for lead time
>>29483696
Americans don't get into trouble for war crimes though, they've already used weapons of mass destruction against civilian targets twice
>>29487500
gr8 b8 m8
>>29487399
What retard made that? Acceleration due to gravity is 9.81m/s^2. Gravity pulls at a constant acceleration.
Weight only applies when the object impacts. The reason a heavier object would fall faster is that, compared to one of the same materials, is because it is bigger and would produce more drag.
A guy dropped a hammer and feather on the moon. This is grade school shit
>>29483519
the closet we get is this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEoqrjFX1yI
>>29487500
OP on phone here, I'll like to keep /k/ out of the same shit like /int/ or /pol/, thanks
>>29483519
Why don't we just make rifle cartridge sized shaped charges? These would do exactly as you proposed without the downsides. : ^ )
The thermite would be dispersed and cooled off. It wouldn't be as interesting as you proposed.
At best it would be extremely fine buckshot. At worst it would be like shooting dust at someone.
>>29484835
>uses enzymes
Aren't enzymes very temperature sensitive?
Might be tricky in military applications.
Still cool as fuck, never heard of this.
>>29487697
If only that was fully automatic and have an effective range of over 30km whilst also having the impact of an artillery shell ;-;
>>29483256
>When can we solve the power problem and make this the new step in warfare, /k/?
As soon as we start using both sides of the equation. Right now its a magnetic field throws ferrous material right? Stop throwing bbs and make a dart with a magnet wire coil which terminates in contacts in the fins. Split a copper tube and mount it in the barrel to energize the electromagnet.
Magnet on magnet is much more powerful than magnet on metal. Not hard to throw a tungsten tip on it for penetration.
>>29487697 this nutter rocks
If I was going to shoot thermite it would be with a centrifugal cannon (picrelated made from a router maybe). Hook up the feed tube to a fire extinguisher type compressed air hopper for full auto feed.
Roll thermite in a tire with binding agent like they make round candy. Last layer black powder and magnesium mixed lacquer.
Pilot light torches down the "barrel", not needed except for ignition.
It would look like a laser beam since the gap between projectiles is so small they come out like a water gun not a machine gun. No mechanics between shots right?
>>29483290
Tell me more, I always tought gauss was superior since it didn't need rails
>>29483387
Project marauder went black after it had success.
Plasma guns soon komrade
>>29490212
BLOOD FOR THE..Wait I meant THE EMPERROR PROTECTS
