Will we ever see battle rifles make a return?
>>29415587
Mk17 does in limited roles.
I hope not.
That shit's heavy.
>>29415587
What cheek riser is on the M1A? Love it.
>>29415607
Full sized rifle rounds have more stopping power than intermediate cartridges though, it would be worth the extra weight imo.
>>29415645
But that's not how small-arms engagements work.
>Stopphin' pwha'
Well now you've gone and done it.
>>29415645
Real life combat isn't like COD where soldiers run around and shoot each other. It's more or less shooting to force the other side to keep their heads down and calling in artillery. The US has invested a fuck ton of money into having the best combined arms in the world. Our soldiers don't need to be 1337 snipers.
>>29415587
We already did. Over in the sandbox they get issued in limited roles to dm's for when you gotta reach out and touch somebody. Battle rifles found their niche in desert combat, were a good number of the engagements take place past 300m, so you fuck over a single guy in the squad and force him to carry a m14.
>>29415587
Would you rather,
a) carry a 7.5lb loaded rifle that will stop someone from shooting at you, and a minimum of 200 rounds
b) carry a 11.5lb loaded rifle that will stop someone from shooting at you, a maximum of 120 rounds
As well as carrying 100ish pounds of other shit on you
>>29415790
Either way I'd rather just carry less heavy bullshit.
Only like 30% of that weight is combat related shit.
>>29415587
What's the second and third one down and how much could I get them for?
>>29415707
>force him to carry an M14
You mean he GETS to carry an M14.
>>29415835
Cetme and Sturmgewehr 58
>>29415818
uhh what? Nobody carries shit they dont need. When you go out on patrols to setup op's and shit on foot it aint just bullets your bringin along, everything you bring is combat related and essential.
>>29415892
>everything you bring is combat related and essential.
Good one anon!
>>29415587
>Will we ever see battle rifles make a return?
Ids alreddy habbedig. Turkey is adopting a domestically-produced HK417 knockoff in REAL FUCKIN' NATO to replace their G3s.
>>29415835
>Second
PTR Inc. PTR-91GI, a US-made semi-auto copy of the HK G3A3.
>Third
DSArms SA58, a US-made copy of the FN-FAL.
>>29415587
They already did, M14 and G3 were brought back as DMRs in the sandbox.
Also SCAR 17.
Germoney gave bunch of G3s to the kurds to combat ISIS.
>>29416070
Who ever goes to war with Turkey will be in for a surprise when they get dropped by one hit.
>>29415645
>stopping power
>>29416271
This "stopping power is a meme" meme has to fucking stop. 7.62mm will always be superior in killing force to 5.56; period.
If it really was 100% about shot placement, Wed be arming everyone with .22s
>>29416230
Whenever Turkey goes to war they'll be in for a big surprise when their soldiers get btfo for carrying half the ammo as dudes living in mountains with 40y/o rifles.
>>29415790
Well the weight would suck, but 120 rounds I can actually aim at the enemy sounds more productive than 200 rounds you just spray at fuck all
Especially since this is an enemy that doesn't have functioning iron sights and lets allah guide their bullets. If we were fighting a serious standing army, I might just suppress and stay down like a bitch in between.
>>29416321
Everyone already knows this, the decision to use intermediate cartridges was made by pencil pushers in government. Full sized cartridges are larger and more powerful, have more stopping power, larger wound channels and more kinetic force.
>>29415673
Suppression is the job of belt fed weapons, if you're firing your m4/m16 or whatever on full auto it means something has gone seriously wrong.
>>29416402
I don't have anything against 5.56mm, its plenty lethal and way more practical against the average infantryman.
I get pissed off when some idiot green texts in typical
>implying
Fashion to make a point that's completely false.
>>29416448
Way more practical FOR the average infantryman.
>>29416442
Wow you're so wrong it's not even funny.
Google the number of rounds used in an engagement for suppressing fire.
>>29416442
>it means something has gone seriously wrong.
Then seriously wrong is normal
Every firefight video I see is un-aimed pissing in the direction the cracking sounds are coming from. If you can't see the enemy, the only thing you can do is fill in as another automatic rifleman.
>>29416377
The m4/16 is going to out shoot you. You're an average grunt, the larger rounds isn't going to help you.
It's not like battle rifles are gone, DMs still use them, because they actually need them.
Also you're retarded If you want the armed forces to center itself fighting Arabs.
>>29416442
You've obviously never spent a single day in combat or in the military for that matter...
>>29416442
>>29416442
>>29416442
you utter retard, you can still lay suppressive fire without being in full auto.
>>29416321
No because . 22 is a hold over and pretty much only useful for plinking and varmints.
It wasn't some arbitrary decision to use 5.56, an intermediate round has the best balance between full rifle and pistol. That's why assault rifle became popular, why have some guys with rifles some with smgs and some with gpmg. Have one gun that does all the tasks well enough (and in some cases better) and streamline a lot of shit.
>>29416580
You're misunderstanding the point of the post.
>>29415587
so everyones bitching about weight, which I understand, but for something like the M14, couldn't we just polymer-ify the stock and everything and make it lighter?
or just use an AR10 with a select fire trigger group.
>>29415790
doesn't the job of suppression fall mainly to the guy with the LMG, therefore the other grunts should be more accurate/more effective per round?
they're not snipers but they can hit shit, so it's not like that's impossible.
>>29415587
I feel like they're better for insurgencies and irregular forces.
>>29416621
yes you can reduce the weight, but the recoil will be much worse and very annoying
>>29416618
You're misunderstanding the meme. It's not that the stopping power isn't there, it's that when all other factors are applied. Stopping power becomes almost irrelevant.
At that point a military has to chose what it wants more. Pakistan uses battle rifles, Turkey as well I think. Most everyone else rather have lighter and more ammo.
>>29416536
I'm 10 years DELTA and 5 years SAD...
>>29416549
I said using your weapon on full auto was a bad idea, suppressing semi automatic with 1-2 seconds between shots is ideal.
>>29415645
Not when you are out of ammo 5 minutes.
>>29415587
Maybe during the 2nd US civil war when civilians realize guns designed for squad tactics like suppressive fire don't work well for individuals.
>>29416621
A milorltary study showed that the team that won the firefight was usually the one with the most ammo.
So let's take an ar10 and an ar15. The ar10 is fairly light, and you could get away with carrying more ammo than an m14 or something. But the 5.56 ar15 is gonna win in carrying capacity everytime. 7.62 kills a lot better, but 5.56 still does a good job, so you might as well carry significantly more 5.56 and stick with the ar15.
>>29416725
This is my belief
>>29416632
I think the ability to be deadlier, and at longer distances would be more effective for an irregular fighting force that doesn't have the infrastructure for regular warfare.
>>29415643
They still make the padded leather and laces cheek risers, you can easily find them if you look up M1 Garand sniper cheek pad. They're basically the same, and it'd fit an M1a.
>>29416530
>The m4/16 is going to out shoot you. You're an average grunt, the larger rounds isn't going to help you.
but every muhrine is a rifleman
>It's not like battle rifles are gone, DMs still use them, because they actually need them.
Yeah but maybe one more DM in place of a rifleman is ideal for durkadurkastan.
>Also you're retarded If you want the armed forces to center itself fighting Arabs.
They've already done that. It would take some massive geopolitical shift for us to butt heads with anything else.
>>29416693
so I looked, and for an 8 pound AR shooting .223, it's about 4 pounds of felt recoil.
for a rifle of the same weight in .308, it's about 8 pounds.
is it worse? yes.
could most grunts deal with it? probably.
>>29416709
exactly, doesn't a BR make more sense more most grunts then?
plus if you have to spray and pray with a BR, whatever you hit gets hit harder.
>>29416718
one guy does not suppress on his own, if he does then everything is FUBAR.
>>29416772
>implying all wars aren't FUBAR
get killed
>>29416070
>domestically-produced HK417 knockoff in REAL FUCKIN' NATO
Based
>>29416621
>couldn't we just polymer-ify the stock and everything and make it lighter?
Wait I can do that
behold
>>29416632
this
battle rifles probably won't make a big return unless body armor technology advances to some great degree and makes intermediate rounds obsolete. Even then they'll probably be pretty short compared to the old ones, like with 16" barrels instead of 20". More likely intermediates will stay and bullet tech will simply evolve to counter the armor, though
>>29416764
Maybe 1 more dm is good for sandniggerstan so far however the military sees no reason for that.
The US military is not centered around fighting sand niggers, yes that's what it's been doing for a while now, but that's not it's core enemy.
>>29416818
>but that's not it's core enemy.
then who/what is?
we've been in the sandbox for 20 fucking years now, and they're the biggest threat as of late.
there's no way our doctrine is still focused around the red menace or something.
>>29415587
Is a scaled down M14 in 6.5 Creedmoor possible?
>inb4 King fudd reporting
>>29416772
>exactly, doesn't a BR make more sense more most grunts then?
>plus if you have to spray and pray with a BR, whatever you hit gets hit harder.
When you have a lot less ammo you can't waste it. Also suppressive fire rarely hits anyone, let alone harder.
>>29416834
We've certainly upped our asymmetric warfare capability fighting in the middle east, but the primary focus of the military is still to defend against nation-threats such as China and Russia. You don't need carrier strike groups, submarines, and stealth bombers to blow up ISIS, after all
>>29416834
skin walkers
You also need to consider the type of infantry using the rifles.
American "Light" infantry aren't really Light Infantry, they are closer to Medium Mechanized Infantry than true light infantry
Light infantry, who's main advantage over other types is mobility, would benefit from having longer range weaponry as the standard- they can keep the enemy at bay to make up for the lack of body armor, and then move faster than them once they come into their own combat effective distance.
So maybe instead of blanket, all units get BR's, just reserve it for units who need to have longer engagement distances in general?
>>29416818
>The US military is not centered around fighting sand niggers
Yes it is, you have like 20+ years of soldiers who only have experience in COIN. If we went to war with China or Russia tomorrow, sure we could probably hold our own, but it would be half a decade before before we would be at our fighting weight in terms of equipment (replacing MRAPs with something suited to conventional war, etc) and experience.
>>29416695
Yeah of course. All things considered, 5.56 offers huge advantages making it preferable to 7.62. The benefit of more ammo makes its downgrade in power "almost irrelevant" as you said.
"Almost" is the key word. You still want a capable caliber.
I don't misunderstand the meme. The whole "stopping power is a myth" is not a myth, but people love to parrot that it is, and that proper shot placement is the supreme commandment that trumps a better bullet. It may have started in the way you said, but its become a cancerous wives tale that's gotten so bad, that people seriously consider their fucking 10/22 an adequate defensive gun.
>>29416879
Uhh no. >>29416866
As this guy said, you don't need carriers to take out isis. US Is still focused around fighting conventional warfare.
The Gulf War wasn't that long ago, and it was a conventional war. Granted against a shit enemy.
>>29416912
>but its become a cancerous wives tale that's gotten so bad, that people seriously consider their fucking 10/22 an adequate defensive gun.
Maybe to muggles like you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pf31EZ9gAJk
>>29416938
Alright, stop trolling.
>>29416912
Any one who genuinely believes stopping power isn't a thing, is not worth arguing with.
But
>stopping power
Is supposed to mean that the person being argued with thinks that stopping power is the end all factor. Which in most cases it isn't.
